Waiting for the Coalitions Bris-Melb train option. 1/4 the speed for 1/2 the price

[Dechucka]

Because people don't really needed to get between the Eastern Capital Cities
quickly. Horse & cart, sailing ship or steam trains got them there just as
effectively

[Why are people so cruel]

"Dechucka" <Dechu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:C_udnY2YUOigmvvM...@westnet.com.au...

> Because people don't really needed to get between the Eastern Capital
> Cities quickly. Horse & cart, sailing ship or steam trains got them there
> just as effectively

Yet another plonkers party dream about getting public servants from
one capital city to another, why? the $100bn NBN is supposed to
stop all this wasteful travel by using video conferences. Why add
another $150bn for a railway line that wont be used.

And just to help you along goto the Qld Rail website and try to buy
a ticket from any Qld station to Sydney or Melbourne. They've
given up selling tickets, 'cos they know that a $50 airline fare is
unbeatable. just imagine what the airlines would do as soon as the
$150bn rail link opened with tickets at $300. I see another
Alice Springs - Darwin disaster looming if anyone even thinks about
this proposal other than people afraid of flying.

[Arrogant Liars & Pretenders]

On 11/04/2013 2:00 PM, Why are people so cruel wrote:
>
> "Dechucka" <Dechu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:C_udnY2YUOigmvvM...@westnet.com.au...
>> Because people don't really needed to get between the Eastern Capital
>> Cities quickly. Horse & cart, sailing ship or steam trains got them
>> there just as effectively
>
> Yet another plonkers party dream about getting public servants from
> one capital city to another, why? the $100bn NBN is supposed to
> stop all this wasteful travel by using video conferences. Why add
> another $150bn for a railway line that wont be used.

Because the NBN won't be finished?

Oh I dunno, do socialist morons actually need any reason to spend money?

>
> And just to help you along goto the Qld Rail website and try to buy
> a ticket from any Qld station to Sydney or Melbourne. They've
> given up selling tickets, 'cos they know that a $50 airline fare is
> unbeatable. just imagine what the airlines would do as soon as the
> $150bn rail link opened with tickets at $300. I see another
> Alice Springs - Darwin disaster looming if anyone even thinks about
> this proposal other than people afraid of flying.
>
>

--
"Whatever you hear on budget night is crap"
Joe Hockey, March 2012

"The most concerning aspects of Mr. Conroy's enormous power are his
infantile understanding of how business actually operates, and his Obeid
like devotion to his cronies".
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2013/3/21/national-affairs/end-line-conroy#ixzz2O8MmFKkl



"Wayne Swan was explicitly asked to rule out a further increase in the
debt limit above the current limit of
$300 billion. He steadfastly refused".
http://liberal.org.au/latest-news/2013/03/13/swan-refuses-rule-out-increase-debt-limit-above-300-billion

Swan...
"The course of action I'm talking about today really comes very much, I
guess, to the core of my values and the values of the Labor Party"

Paul Howes...
"Labor has an obligation to stop extremists who threaten our democracy"

How much new law is there every year?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lePrBUHihKI

Tony Abbott...
"You do not save the environment by killing the economy"

"It's not about popularity, it's about gaining respect, and she hasn't
got it yet"
(Australian of the Year, 2013)

[bringyagrogalong]

Thank God for the Independents.

It gave the nincompoops and luddites in the Coalition time to come to
their senses.

Six years ago, the Coalition was promising no more than a scrappy bush
wireless network using a now dying technology called WiMAX and an
unfunded upgrade of the urban copper network.

Three years later, in the 2010 election, it had upped the stakes to $6
billion for essentially the same 2007 outcome.

Now, thanks to the Independents it is promising $29 billion for a
national network.

That's how close we came to disaster.

The Independents are owed a huge debt of gratitude by every
Australian.

------------------

The disaster which is Tony (I'm no tech-head) Abbott:
http://tinyurl.com/czl6eax

[H D]

"Why are people so cruel" <noon...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0Aq9t.469$e66...@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com...

If you had any knowledge of what goes on in the world you would know that
Lufthansa stopped flying all the routes that can be traversed by fast rail.
No one did fly anymore.
To go from Brisbane to Sydney by fast rail is a lot faster than flying
including the time spent at airports.
But I realize that the Liberals look at every excuse not to do any nation
building.
Maybe they need all the money to buy a couple of hundred additional patrol
boats so they can catch a little wooden
fishing boat coming to Australia.
A Liberal government?
God help us all.

[kw.3...@gmail.com]

The Liberal response was given 2 weeks before the question was posted.
(smashing efficiency)

Colin Barnett (and Labor too) promised WA a new rail (1/4 of performance, 1/2 of costs). Conditional on Federal funding.
Tony Abbott replied (after election) with:
"Federal government traditionally funds road projects - not rail projects."
It was laud in WA - I have no idea if our free press noticed it over East.

BTW:
Our Colin managed 20b of debt despite not being Labor and mining boom.
Difficult to say on what.
Per head - he is a leader.

Regards,

Krzysztof

[Arrogant Liars & Pretenders]

On 11/04/2013 3:54 PM, H D wrote:
> If you had any knowledge of what goes on in the world you would know
> that Lufthansa stopped flying all the routes that can be traversed by
> fast rail.

Germany is one tenth the size of Australia and has 4 times the
population - or thereabouts.

$114b/22m people means we each have to pay around $6,000 for this high
speed rail - or around $300 per trip *if* every many, woman and child
travels *every* year and that *only* covers CAPEX. Add similar running
costs and a reasonable assumption that only 25% of people would travel
intercity in a given year and the cost *per trip* will be $2,400.

I can fly to Melbourne and *back* for around $200.

IS THERE NOW ANY DOUBT THAT THE ALP IS A PACK OF INNUMERATE MORONS?

PS: If further commonsense is applied, you'd take into account that it
will cost double and take twice as long plus the massive opportunity
cost of drawing productive resource away from productive parts of the
economy, the distraction of ALP propaganda & bullshit and the impact on
the AUD of *more debt*

THE PERSON WHO PROPOSES THIS PLAN IS NOMINALLY THE 'INFRASTRUCTURE
MINISTER'. THE ONLY INFRASTRUCTURE THAT HE HAS DEVELOPED IN 5 YEARS IS A
WEBSITE.

[Why are people so cruel]

"H D" <her...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:ses9t.544$EY1...@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...

>
> "Why are people so cruel" <noon...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:0Aq9t.469$e66...@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com...
>>
>> "Dechucka" <Dechu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:C_udnY2YUOigmvvM...@westnet.com.au...
>>> Because people don't really needed to get between the Eastern Capital
>>> Cities quickly. Horse & cart, sailing ship or steam trains got them
>>> there just as effectively
>>
>> Yet another plonkers party dream about getting public servants from
>> one capital city to another, why? the $100bn NBN is supposed to
>> stop all this wasteful travel by using video conferences. Why add
>> another $150bn for a railway line that wont be used.
>>
>> And just to help you along goto the Qld Rail website and try to buy
>> a ticket from any Qld station to Sydney or Melbourne. They've
>> given up selling tickets, 'cos they know that a $50 airline fare is
>> unbeatable. just imagine what the airlines would do as soon as the
>> $150bn rail link opened with tickets at $300. I see another
>> Alice Springs - Darwin disaster looming if anyone even thinks about
>> this proposal other than people afraid of flying.
>>
>
> If you had any knowledge of what goes on in the world you would know that
> Lufthansa stopped flying all the routes that can be traversed by fast
> rail. No one did fly anymore.

Not surprising, considering the distances in Germany/Europe. Do they have
any high speed routes that cover 1000kms? Qantas did a survey of customers
a few years ago that was published in the flight magasine - from memory
about
60% of their business customers were doing business outside the CBD - which
sort of defeats the argument that CBD to CBD times are faster. The other
issue
is can the railways deliver the number of passengers that the airlines do in
a very
short time window - just look at the numbers of flights into and out of the
capitals
from 6am to 10am - rail would not be able to deliver a fraction of those
passengers.

The comparison with Europe is also flawed as they have a customer base of
well over 500 million people compared to our 25 million. Its very easy to
fill
a train when you've got 500 million potential customers.

> To go from Brisbane to Sydney by fast rail is a lot faster than flying
> including the time spent at airports.
> But I realize that the Liberals look at every excuse not to do any nation
> building.

The last railway built in Australia - Alice to Darwin - has been a financial
disaster, and that was built under a Liberal govt. I'd say once bitten twice
shy.

> Maybe they need all the money to buy a couple of hundred additional patrol
> boats so they can catch a little wooden
> fishing boat coming to Australia.

I noticed that Deutsche Bank were the sponsors of the last boat arrival,
maybe
they should take responsibility and fly them to NZ.

> A Liberal government?
> God help us all.
>

Probably, but with a Labor/Green coalition we have n't really had god's help
either. Maybe if your god could wave his magic wand and make the Labor
MPs numerate with their shoes on, we'd have a country that is not saddled
with debt for the next two generations. I would n't mind the debt so much
if it had been racked up actually doing something other than appeasing the
Greens/Independants and importing goods which could have been made
here if the government was not so easily swayed by lobbyists on behalf of
the importers. You really have to ask if New Labor has the country's
interests at heart, or whether the lobbyists and their ability to put money
in
overseas bank accounts is what New Labor is now all about.

[H D]

"Arrogant Liars & Pretenders" <bjfost...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:asn5uo...@mid.individual.net...

> On 11/04/2013 3:54 PM, H D wrote:
>> If you had any knowledge of what goes on in the world you would know
>> that Lufthansa stopped flying all the routes that can be traversed by
>> fast rail.
>
> Germany is one tenth the size of Australia and has 4 times the
> population - or thereabouts.

Yes, and they have first class Autobahns to go fast and easy by car. despite
that the trains are full and popular.

>
> $114b/22m people means we each have to pay around $6,000 for this high
> speed rail - or around $300 per trip *if* every many, woman and child
> travels *every* year and that *only* covers CAPEX.
Add similar running
> costs and a reasonable assumption that only 25% of people would travel
> intercity in a given year and the cost *per trip* will be $2,400.
>
> I can fly to Melbourne and *back* for around $200.

So why do people choke the highways with their cars?
How much do you pay for building the roads and maintaining them?

>
> IS THERE NOW ANY DOUBT THAT THE ALP IS A PACK OF INNUMERATE MORONS?
>
> PS: If further commonsense is applied, you'd take into account that it
> will cost double and take twice as long plus the massive opportunity cost
> of drawing productive resource away from productive parts of the economy,
> the distraction of ALP propaganda & bullshit and the impact on the AUD of
> *more debt*
>
> THE PERSON WHO PROPOSES THIS PLAN IS NOMINALLY THE 'INFRASTRUCTURE
> MINISTER'. THE ONLY INFRASTRUCTURE THAT HE HAS DEVELOPED IN 5 YEARS IS A
> WEBSITE.

And according to that the rest of the world consists of idiots
who get high speed broadband and high speed rail.
Only the Liberals are smart and spent tax payers money on bonuses at
election time
to get re-elected.

[Arrogant Liars & Pretenders]

Only if they travel in cicles, ROTFL!

Maybe that's wot HD means about 'goze onn in Der Welt' - Germany going
in circles.

[Arrogant Liars & Pretenders]

On 11/04/2013 5:31 PM, H D wrote:
>
> "Arrogant Liars & Pretenders" <bjfost...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
> message news:asn5uo...@mid.individual.net...
>> On 11/04/2013 3:54 PM, H D wrote:
>>> If you had any knowledge of what goes on in the world you would know
>>> that Lufthansa stopped flying all the routes that can be traversed by
>>> fast rail.
>>
>> Germany is one tenth the size of Australia and has 4 times the
>> population - or thereabouts.
>
> Yes, and they have first class Autobahns to go fast and easy by car.
> despite that the trains are full and popular.

And go round in circles?

>
>>
>> $114b/22m people means we each have to pay around $6,000 for this high
>> speed rail - or around $300 per trip *if* every many, woman and child
>> travels *every* year and that *only* covers CAPEX.
> Add similar running
>> costs and a reasonable assumption that only 25% of people would travel
>> intercity in a given year and the cost *per trip* will be $2,400.
>>
>> I can fly to Melbourne and *back* for around $200.
>
> So why do people choke the highways with their cars?

Dunno, maybe cos 30% of Australians are ALP supporters.

> How much do you pay for building the roads and maintaining them?

Everything chuckie, everything.

>
>
>>
>> IS THERE NOW ANY DOUBT THAT THE ALP IS A PACK OF INNUMERATE MORONS?
>>
>> PS: If further commonsense is applied, you'd take into account that it
>> will cost double and take twice as long plus the massive opportunity
>> cost of drawing productive resource away from productive parts of the
>> economy, the distraction of ALP propaganda & bullshit and the impact
>> on the AUD of *more debt*
>>
>> THE PERSON WHO PROPOSES THIS PLAN IS NOMINALLY THE 'INFRASTRUCTURE
>> MINISTER'. THE ONLY INFRASTRUCTURE THAT HE HAS DEVELOPED IN 5 YEARS IS
>> A WEBSITE.
>
> And according to that the rest of the world consists of idiots

No, only the part where you live.

Did I mention that Chermany hass aboot 40 times der populaschun
deschitty? Nein, I forgot you isch nicht numeratisch.

> who get high speed broadband and high speed rail.
> Only the Liberals are smart and spent tax payers money on bonuses at
> election time
> to get re-elected.
>
>
>

[H D]

"Why are people so cruel" <noon...@microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:yAt9t.561$EY1...@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...

1300 passengers per train

>
> The comparison with Europe is also flawed as they have a customer base of
> well over 500 million people compared to our 25 million. Its very easy to
> fill
> a train when you've got 500 million potential customers.

Not when you have to compete with Autobahns where you can drive your car at
speeds of 200Km

>
>> To go from Brisbane to Sydney by fast rail is a lot faster than flying
>> including the time spent at airports.
>> But I realize that the Liberals look at every excuse not to do any nation
>> building.
>
> The last railway built in Australia - Alice to Darwin - has been a
> financial
> disaster, and that was built under a Liberal govt. I'd say once bitten
> twice
> shy.

What do you expect with a population of 25K?

>
>> Maybe they need all the money to buy a couple of hundred additional
>> patrol boats so they can catch a little wooden
>> fishing boat coming to Australia.
>
> I noticed that Deutsche Bank were the sponsors of the last boat arrival,
> maybe
> they should take responsibility and fly them to NZ.
>
>> A Liberal government?
>> God help us all.
>>
> Probably, but with a Labor/Green coalition we have n't really had god's
> help
> either. Maybe if your god could wave his magic wand and make the Labor
> MPs numerate with their shoes on, we'd have a country that is not saddled
> with debt for the next two generations.

What has Labor got to do with the massive debt of credit cards except maybe
that it has come down as we
no longer have work choices.

I would n't mind the debt so much
> if it had been racked up actually doing something other than appeasing the
> Greens/Independants and importing goods which could have been made
> here if the government was not so easily swayed by lobbyists on behalf of
> the importers. You really have to ask if New Labor has the country's
> interests at heart, or whether the lobbyists and their ability to put
> money

I don't think we imported school buildings

[H D]

"Arrogant Liars & Pretenders" <bjfost...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message

news:asn8hs...@mid.individual.net...

> On 11/04/2013 5:31 PM, H D wrote:
>>
>> "Arrogant Liars & Pretenders" <bjfost...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
>> message news:asn5uo...@mid.individual.net...
>>> On 11/04/2013 3:54 PM, H D wrote:
>>>> If you had any knowledge of what goes on in the world you would know
>>>> that Lufthansa stopped flying all the routes that can be traversed by
>>>> fast rail.
>>>
>>> Germany is one tenth the size of Australia and has 4 times the
>>> population - or thereabouts.
>>
>> Yes, and they have first class Autobahns to go fast and easy by car.
>> despite that the trains are full and popular.
>
> And go round in circles?

You mean something like from Paris to Rome and back?
Look at the high speed network on google.

>
>>
>>>
>>> $114b/22m people means we each have to pay around $6,000 for this high
>>> speed rail - or around $300 per trip *if* every many, woman and child
>>> travels *every* year and that *only* covers CAPEX.
>> Add similar running
>>> costs and a reasonable assumption that only 25% of people would travel
>>> intercity in a given year and the cost *per trip* will be $2,400.
>>>
>>> I can fly to Melbourne and *back* for around $200.
>>
>> So why do people choke the highways with their cars?
>
> Dunno, maybe cos 30% of Australians are ALP supporters.

Why do you get stupid if you can't answer a question?

>
>
>> How much do you pay for building the roads and maintaining them?
>
> Everything chuckie, everything.

Then why don't you add the cost to your plane ticket?

>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> IS THERE NOW ANY DOUBT THAT THE ALP IS A PACK OF INNUMERATE MORONS?
>>>
>>> PS: If further commonsense is applied, you'd take into account that it
>>> will cost double and take twice as long plus the massive opportunity
>>> cost of drawing productive resource away from productive parts of the
>>> economy, the distraction of ALP propaganda & bullshit and the impact
>>> on the AUD of *more debt*
>>>
>>> THE PERSON WHO PROPOSES THIS PLAN IS NOMINALLY THE 'INFRASTRUCTURE
>>> MINISTER'. THE ONLY INFRASTRUCTURE THAT HE HAS DEVELOPED IN 5 YEARS IS
>>> A WEBSITE.
>>
>> And according to that the rest of the world consists of idiots
>
> No, only the part where you live.
>
> Did I mention that Chermany hass aboot 40 times der populaschun deschitty?
> Nein, I forgot you isch nicht numeratisch.

Unsa?

[H D]

"Arrogant Liars & Pretenders" <bjfost...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message

news:asn8ae...@mid.individual.net...

You don't need to provide prove about your lack of knowledge.

[Why are people so cruel]

"H D" <her...@bigpond.com> wrote in message

news:Jeu9t.499$e66...@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com...

Last time there was such massive credit card debt, Keating introduced the
19%
mortgage in the "recession we had to have".

>
> I would n't mind the debt so much
>> if it had been racked up actually doing something other than appeasing
>> the
>> Greens/Independants and importing goods which could have been made
>> here if the government was not so easily swayed by lobbyists on behalf of
>> the importers. You really have to ask if New Labor has the country's
>> interests at heart, or whether the lobbyists and their ability to put
>> money
>
> I don't think we imported school buildings
>

No, but I'm dammed sure that most of the components came from overseas.
Look at the NBN, all of the fibre and associated fittings is imported, even
a lot of the labour is imported on 457 visas because the contractors are too
lazy to find people who can dig trenches. Rudd's stimulus $1000 or whatever
it was - "Go out and buy a TV" was his advice - now where in Australia are
TVs now made? And of course we have the insulation debacle with most
of the insulation being imported with local labour being used to fit it.

All up it seems that whenever there is a stimulus package it involves large
sums
of money going overseas - brilliant economics.

Far better to have kept Hawke's promise of fixing up the ailing road system
and
build an all weather highway around Australia, or drought proof the Southern
cities by building a national water grid.

[H D]

"Why are people so cruel" <noon...@microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:LWu9t.502$e66...@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com...

Don't you ever check before you make a fool of yourself with your bullshit?
In 1995 total credit card debt in Australia was $ 4 billion
In 2005 it was $27 billion.

>>
>> I would n't mind the debt so much
>>> if it had been racked up actually doing something other than appeasing
>>> the
>>> Greens/Independants and importing goods which could have been made
>>> here if the government was not so easily swayed by lobbyists on behalf
>>> of
>>> the importers. You really have to ask if New Labor has the country's
>>> interests at heart, or whether the lobbyists and their ability to put
>>> money
>>
>> I don't think we imported school buildings
>>
> No, but I'm dammed sure that most of the components came from overseas.
> Look at the NBN, all of the fibre and associated fittings is imported,
> even
> a lot of the labour is imported on 457 visas because the contractors are
> too
> lazy to find people who can dig trenches. Rudd's stimulus $1000 or
> whatever
> it was - "Go out and buy a TV" was his advice - now where in Australia are
> TVs now made? And of course we have the insulation debacle with most
> of the insulation being imported with local labour being used to fit it.
>
> All up it seems that whenever there is a stimulus package it involves
> large sums
> of money going overseas - brilliant economics.

All the stimulus created jobs and saved us from going into recession
Unlike capitalist countries that gave a stimulus to banks and business
who just pocketed it instead of employing people.

>
> Far better to have kept Hawke's promise of fixing up the ailing road
> system and
> build an all weather highway around Australia, or drought proof the
> Southern
> cities by building a national water grid.

Would have taken too long to plan and implement when job creation was
urgent.
A national water grid is bullshit. You would pay tenfold for your water to
cover the
pumping cost.