Re: The dogs dinner...
Jeßus
> Janet Baraclough <janet.a...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in
> news:3130303039303...@zetnet.co.uk:
>
>>>> PeterLucas wrote:
>>>>> LOL!! Nope....... she's a 'gourmet dog'........ loves her pates,
> and
>>>>> olives, and cheeses........ especially when they're on crackers!!
> And
>>>>> she just *loves* pasta, especially when it's been warmed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Plus, I only feed her every other day, and depending on what she
> has,
>>>>> maybe once every 3 days.
>>
>> That's not a gourmet dog, just a starving one. It eats whatever
>> inappropriate crap you throw at it, because it's desperate and
> suffering
>> the effects of ketosis.
>>
>
>
> Bollocks!!
>
> As was explained to me by the vet that has been looking after her since
> she was 8 weeks old, I was feeding her once a day, and she was being
> overfed (2 x chicken frames). Dogs are masters at changing their
> metabolism to suit their 'scenario'. If they aren't getting food on
> demand, they shift their metabolism to suit, and slow down. My poochs'
> ideal body weight is 32kgs. For the past 4 years she has maintained that
> weight.
>
> Dogs can go for a month with no food........ as long as they have water
> they are fine.
>
> Too many dog owners (and cat owners for that fact), overfeed their pets,
> and end up doing them more harm than good.
Sure they do. But that doesn't automatically imply that not feeding a
dog for three days is appropriate. You're dreaming if you think that dog
isn't starving after three days of no food. Maybe not literally
starving, but it would be suffering nonetheless.
Did you ever think of adjusting the *quantity* of food given on a daily
basis? No, of course not...
Three days is just ridiculous.
cshenk
> Sure they do. But that doesn't automatically imply that not feeding a dog
> for three days is appropriate. You're dreaming if you think that dog isn't
> starving after three days of no food. Maybe not literally starving, but it
> would be suffering nonetheless.
Read carefully and you can see it's normally 2 days not 3, and frequent
'treats'. 'Treats' arnet defined. For all you know, his 'treat' is 1/2 lb
of meat given out twice a day. IE: more than just a tiny nibble.
Might be worth asking there.
Cash-pup's 'treat' (lunch really, so he really eats 3 times a day) is about
1/2 cup of just barely warm stock (enough to make it melt really since this
is usually bone-stock) and a few bits of meat are often slivered and added
in (say, 2oz). The cat gets 2-3 TB of the same at that time. Then Don,
Charlotte, and I have a soup or something with more of it. We *also* add up
about 6 dog biscuits a day to Cash.
Most dogs his size, would be overfed badly at that ratio when you add in his
regular morning and evening feedings, but he burns this off perfectly. In
fact, this is tapered down now that he is at right weight. When we first
got him it was 1 cup dry at morning and evening, plus 1/2 can wet in evening
(and the 'treats'). It took him 5 months to gain appropriate vet approved
weight.
(Before any freak out, Cash was a rescue pup with heartworms. Badly
underweight and you could see his spine and count all ribs up to his
shoulders when standing, which is highly abnormal for his body shape which
is basically a larger sized very muscular beagle-look. Believed to be part
beagle, and part bull mastiff per vet's measurements).
Jeßus
> "Jeßus" wrote
>
>> Sure they do. But that doesn't automatically imply that not feeding a dog
>> for three days is appropriate. You're dreaming if you think that dog isn't
>> starving after three days of no food. Maybe not literally starving, but it
>> would be suffering nonetheless.
>
> Read carefully and you can see it's normally 2 days not 3, and frequent
> 'treats'. 'Treats' arnet defined. For all you know, his 'treat' is 1/2 lb
> of meat given out twice a day. IE: more than just a tiny nibble.
>
> Might be worth asking there.
You could be right? usually here in Aus a 'treat' refers to a small
amount of a favoured food. But... who knows.
> Cash-pup's 'treat' (lunch really, so he really eats 3 times a day) is about
> 1/2 cup of just barely warm stock (enough to make it melt really since this
> is usually bone-stock) and a few bits of meat are often slivered and added
> in (say, 2oz). The cat gets 2-3 TB of the same at that time. Then Don,
> Charlotte, and I have a soup or something with more of it. We *also* add up
> about 6 dog biscuits a day to Cash.
I usually feed my dog twice a day, although I don't have a hard and fast
rule. She's still growing (born mid-May) and extremely active (Kelpie)
so obesity is a non-issue for the time being. She sure can eat though (I
doubt she even gets to taste the food, she gulps it down so fast...)
I will give her some 'dry' food in the morning, most evenings is fresh
meat (sometimes with veggies) as we always have fresh rabbit, deer, lamb
or kangaroo. She even seems partial to trout.
The cat is more selective in what she will eat, but again is usually fed
mornings and evenings... (along with what is now apparently the
obligatory tidbits from my plate!)
> Most dogs his size, would be overfed badly at that ratio when you add in his
> regular morning and evening feedings, but he burns this off perfectly. In
> fact, this is tapered down now that he is at right weight. When we first
> got him it was 1 cup dry at morning and evening, plus 1/2 can wet in evening
> (and the 'treats'). It took him 5 months to gain appropriate vet approved
> weight.
If a dog is overweight, then surely *real* issue is *what* they eat,
rather than merely the quantity or frequency of food? I certainly worked
(and still works) that way for me :)
For example, I avoid most grains (unless sprouted) along with other high
carbohydrate foods. I still eat them, albeit infrequently, which got be
back to my 'correct' weight. By doing this I also discovered
inadvertently that wheat and a lot other grains make me feel letharic.
If they're sprouted first - no problem.
Anyway, getting off the track here... :)
> (Before any freak out, Cash was a rescue pup with heartworms. Badly
> underweight and you could see his spine and count all ribs up to his
> shoulders when standing, which is highly abnormal for his body shape which
> is basically a larger sized very muscular beagle-look. Believed to be part
> beagle, and part bull mastiff per vet's measurements).
What a mixture :)
I'm sure with your care he will be in great shape soon (if not already).
Jeßus
> "PeterLucas" wrote
>
> >> Might be worth asking there.
>
>> cyber
>> stalker.
>
> Oh, ok. Hey, at least we have a good chat going on!
We are :)
Look, I won't drag this on forever - but if on the slim chance you wish
to know more about the true nature of peter lucas, I can suggest doing a
search for his posts, particularly in alt.ozdebate up until say 2007
(the group has low activity since). He hasn't always used 'PeterLucas'
though.
I can think of six people he promised to 'get', including myself and a
woman who is close to retirement age. Its all documented for perpetuity
in Usenet archives, I have no need to invent things about mr lucas!
He seems to have two personalties online - one is a highly aggressive,
hate-filled individual who will try to put fear into you (especially if
he thinks he knows where you live)- and the other is what you see on
this group. Sometimes one will morph into the other - but I think he's
learned not to do that. I'm trying to alienate you from peter, just so
your eyes are opened. Okay - enough of that!
> To keep it a bit topical, I make many of my pets foods (I call it treats but
> it's a full meal). I am almost out of stock just now so need to make more.
> I make it salt free then spice and salt it for our use later. No onions (I
> forget if it's cats or dogs that dont take to onions but the same stock goes
> to both so...).
My cat simply *adores* garlic, onion less so. She'll even eat my
cauliflower bake because of the garlic flavour. OTOH, she is still quite
picky about what she will eat, like many cats. Unfortunately she tends
not to like the fresh bunnies or fish or red meat we have most weeks,
unless it is cooked with the usual condiments. Spoilt, I guess :)
cshenk
> cshenk wrote:
>> Read carefully and you can see it's normally 2 days not 3, and frequent
>> 'treats'. 'Treats' arnet defined. For all you know, his 'treat' is 1/2
>> lb of meat given out twice a day. IE: more than just a tiny nibble.
>>
>> Might be worth asking there.
>
> You could be right? usually here in Aus a 'treat' refers to a small amount
> of a favoured food. But... who knows.
Seems his version of a 'treat' is a 5 inch pig ear 3 times a week, plus
other stuff. I recon the dog is getting fed ok. Just had to look a little
deeper is all.
>> Cash-pup's 'treat' (lunch really, so he really eats 3 times a day) is
>> about 1/2 cup of just barely warm stock (enough to make it melt really
>> since this is usually bone-stock) and a few bits of meat are often
>> slivered and added in (say, 2oz). The cat gets 2-3 TB of the same at
>> that time. Then Don, Charlotte, and I have a soup or something with more
>> of it. We *also* add up about 6 dog biscuits a day to Cash.
>
> I usually feed my dog twice a day, although I don't have a hard and fast
> rule. She's still growing (born mid-May) and extremely active (Kelpie) so
> obesity is a non-issue for the time being. She sure can eat though (I
> doubt she even gets to taste the food, she gulps it down so fast...)
> I will give her some 'dry' food in the morning, most evenings is fresh
> meat (sometimes with veggies) as we always have fresh rabbit, deer, lamb
> or kangaroo. She even seems partial to trout.
Cash eats anything not nailed down unless the cat gets it first (grin).
> The cat is more selective in what she will eat, but again is usually fed
> mornings and evenings... (along with what is now apparently the obligatory
> tidbits from my plate!)
Yup.
>> Most dogs his size, would be overfed badly at that ratio when you add in
>> his regular morning and evening feedings, but he burns this off
>> perfectly. In fact, this is tapered down now that he is at right weight.
>> When we first got him it was 1 cup dry at morning and evening, plus 1/2
>> can wet in evening (and the 'treats'). It took him 5 months to gain
>> appropriate vet approved weight.
>
> If a dog is overweight, then surely *real* issue is *what* they eat,
> rather than merely the quantity or frequency of food? I certainly worked
> (and still works) that way for me :)
> For example, I avoid most grains (unless sprouted) along with other high
> carbohydrate foods. I still eat them, albeit infrequently, which got be
> back to my 'correct' weight. By doing this I also discovered inadvertently
> that wheat and a lot other grains make me feel letharic.
> If they're sprouted first - no problem.
Sometimes yes. I know when there are some sorts of dog food, to feed less
if it's a really high fat/meat sort. I tend to the upper market eukanaba
and such foods for him.
> Anyway, getting off the track here... :)
>
>> (Before any freak out, Cash was a rescue pup with heartworms. Badly
>> underweight and you could see his spine and count all ribs up to his
>> shoulders when standing, which is highly abnormal for his body shape
>> which is basically a larger sized very muscular beagle-look. Believed to
>> be part beagle, and part bull mastiff per vet's measurements).
>
> What a mixture :)
> I'm sure with your care he will be in great shape soon (if not already).
He is! After being turned down 4 times to be neutered (health reasons) we
were finally able to have that done. Honestly, I'd rather not have as I
miss them happy dangles, but it was for his health as he's not up to mating
and the scent of the lady doggies was driving him nuts.
cshenk
> cshenk wrote:
> Look, I won't drag this on forever - but if on the slim chance you wish to
> know more about the true nature of peter lucas, I can suggest doing a
> search for his posts, particularly in alt.ozdebate up until say 2007
Naw, I'm not the sort to go hunting folks up. I take'em at 'face value' in
a conference.
>> To keep it a bit topical, I make many of my pets foods (I call it treats
>> but it's a full meal). I am almost out of stock just now so need to make
>> more. I make it salt free then spice and salt it for our use later. No
>> onions (I forget if it's cats or dogs that dont take to onions but the
>> same stock goes to both so...).
>
> My cat simply *adores* garlic, onion less so. She'll even eat my
> cauliflower bake because of the garlic flavour. OTOH, she is still quite
> picky about what she will eat, like many cats. Unfortunately she tends not
> to like the fresh bunnies or fish or red meat we have most weeks, unless
> it is cooked with the usual condiments. Spoilt, I guess :)
Not sure on Garlic, but just because it's the same family of critter as the
onion, doesnt mean a little might not be ok! Cash loves hickory smoked
meats.
Jeßus
> "Jeßus" wrote
> > cshenk wrote:
>
>> Look, I won't drag this on forever - but if on the slim chance you wish to
>> know more about the true nature of peter lucas, I can suggest doing a
>> search for his posts, particularly in alt.ozdebate up until say 2007
>
> Naw, I'm not the sort to go hunting folks up. I take'em at 'face value' in
> a conference.
That's fine then :)
>>> To keep it a bit topical, I make many of my pets foods (I call it treats
>>> but it's a full meal). I am almost out of stock just now so need to make
>>> more. I make it salt free then spice and salt it for our use later. No
>>> onions (I forget if it's cats or dogs that dont take to onions but the
>>> same stock goes to both so...).
>> My cat simply *adores* garlic, onion less so. She'll even eat my
>> cauliflower bake because of the garlic flavour. OTOH, she is still quite
>> picky about what she will eat, like many cats. Unfortunately she tends not
>> to like the fresh bunnies or fish or red meat we have most weeks, unless
>> it is cooked with the usual condiments. Spoilt, I guess :)
>
> Not sure on Garlic, but just because it's the same family of critter as the
> onion, doesnt mean a little might not be ok!
Yeah, true. I should double-check what the toxic dosage is, but over all
I doubt she is getting too much garlic, she doesn't get it too
frequently or in high amounts.
Hmm... I have just read this:
http://www.felinefuture.com/nutrition/garlic.php the wording of which is
enough for me to put her garlic eating days on moratorium for the time
being! I don't know if the side effects are being over-dramatised, but
I'm going to err in favour of caution.
> Cash loves hickory smoked meats.
As would most critters, human or not <G>
Jeßus
> "Jeßus" wrote
>> cshenk wrote:
<snip>
>>> Most dogs his size, would be overfed badly at that ratio when you add in
>>> his regular morning and evening feedings, but he burns this off
>>> perfectly. In fact, this is tapered down now that he is at right weight.
>>> When we first got him it was 1 cup dry at morning and evening, plus 1/2
>>> can wet in evening (and the 'treats'). It took him 5 months to gain
>>> appropriate vet approved weight.
>> If a dog is overweight, then surely *real* issue is *what* they eat,
>> rather than merely the quantity or frequency of food? I certainly worked
>> (and still works) that way for me :)
>> For example, I avoid most grains (unless sprouted) along with other high
>> carbohydrate foods. I still eat them, albeit infrequently, which got be
>> back to my 'correct' weight. By doing this I also discovered inadvertently
>> that wheat and a lot other grains make me feel letharic.
>> If they're sprouted first - no problem.
>
> Sometimes yes. I know when there are some sorts of dog food, to feed less
> if it's a really high fat/meat sort. I tend to the upper market eukanaba
> and such foods for him.
I'm less concerned about fat (as long as it is good quality fat) and
more focussed on over all carbohydrate intake myself. I think we and
most domesticated animal get wayyyyy too much. But that's a whole
different topic with plenty of debate out there.
>> Anyway, getting off the track here... :)
>>
>>> (Before any freak out, Cash was a rescue pup with heartworms. Badly
>>> underweight and you could see his spine and count all ribs up to his
>>> shoulders when standing, which is highly abnormal for his body shape
>>> which is basically a larger sized very muscular beagle-look. Believed to
>>> be part beagle, and part bull mastiff per vet's measurements).
>> What a mixture :)
>> I'm sure with your care he will be in great shape soon (if not already).
>
> He is! After being turned down 4 times to be neutered (health reasons) we
> were finally able to have that done.
I'm sure Cash is really happy about being neutered too ;)
> Honestly, I'd rather not have as I
> miss them happy dangles, but it was for his health as he's not up to mating
> and the scent of the lady doggies was driving him nuts.
And will keep him away from potential scraps with other male dogs.
My Kelpie (Dusty) is a female, she is still intact - I wouldn't mind
letting her have a litter /if/ I can find a suitable male Kelpie. If
not, then I'm afraid it's off to the vets for her. At present she is
only approx. 4 months old and the property is pretty secure, so I'm not
too worried about any unplanned 'surprises' as yet.
cshenk
>>>> To keep it a bit topical, I make many of my pets foods (I call it
>>>> treats but it's a full meal). I am almost out of stock just now so
>>>> need to make
>> Not sure on Garlic, but just because it's the same family of critter as
>> the onion, doesnt mean a little might not be ok!
>
> Yeah, true. I should double-check what the toxic dosage is, but over all I
> doubt she is getting too much garlic, she doesn't get it too frequently or
> in high amounts.
> Hmm... I have just read this:
> http://www.felinefuture.com/nutrition/garlic.php the wording of which is
> enough for me to put her garlic eating days on moratorium for the time
> being! I don't know if the side effects are being over-dramatised, but I'm
> going to err in favour of caution.
Usually wise! Also, if you check you'll find pets are generally less salt
tolerant than we are. A little is fine in a few things, but best to go
low-sodium for them overall.
>> Cash loves hickory smoked meats.
>
> As would most critters, human or not <G>
For sure! He's knarfing a bone just now. We stuck it in the smoker to add
more flavor and he's all happy over it.
cshenk
> cshenk wrote:
> I'm less concerned about fat (as long as it is good quality fat) and more
> focussed on over all carbohydrate intake myself. I think we and most
> domesticated animal get wayyyyy too much. But that's a whole different
> topic with plenty of debate out there.
Sure and I think you have the right of it. Most of Cash's carbs come from
rice (which isnt all that great for him) as he loved buttered rice in his
lunch 'treat'.
>>>> be part beagle, and part bull mastiff per vet's measurements).
>>> What a mixture :)
The pics Peter posted are real close in body shape to Cash. Just shorter
legs, bigger head (and longer snout) and a bit more burly about the neck and
chest. Long floppy beagle ears ;-)
>> He is! After being turned down 4 times to be neutered (health reasons)
>> we were finally able to have that done.
>
> I'm sure Cash is really happy about being neutered too ;)
snicker, sorry. I'd not have done it as we liked the jaunty look from
behind, but his heart problems actually made it needed.
>> and the scent of the lady doggies was driving him nuts.
>
> And will keep him away from potential scraps with other male dogs.
True, but here inside a big city, leash laws prevail. He's not let out to
wander.
> My Kelpie (Dusty) is a female, she is still intact - I wouldn't mind
> letting her have a litter /if/ I can find a suitable male Kelpie. If not,
> then I'm afraid it's off to the vets for her. At present she is only
> approx. 4 months old and the property is pretty secure, so I'm not too
> worried about any unplanned 'surprises' as yet.
Give it 2 more months I think?
I'm no breeder but I gathered that it's best if going to let them have pups,
to wait out the first season and go for the second one.