First Bike For Old Bloke - Kawasaki ZZR250 v Suzuki Across?
Richard Kay
I've been lurking and learning from this newsgroup for the past few weeks
whilst Iearning how to ride (just had 4th lesson for my L Class Licence here
in Bunbury, WA).
I'm wondering which bike to go for for starters.
I'm 40 years old (mid-life crisis, hence motorcycle), 183cm tall and weigh
about 90 kg (put on 20kg since I went over the wall from Bodhinyana Buddhist
Monastery where I was recently training to be a Buddhist monk).
The bike will be my SOLE means of transport.
It will be used as follows:
a) 20% commuting around Bunbury, WA.
b) 60% commuting from Bunbury to Perth (and Monastery) and back (about 200km
of highway each way)
c) 20% fun trips down to Margaret River, Albany and the like (more highway
fun of 100km or more).
Based on my recent car mileage (15,000km per three months with work car) I'd
expect to be doing 30,000 to 50,000 of riding per year. I love driving
(riding)!!!! It is just like meditation.
The models that I think meet my needs at this stage, given the 250cc
restriction of the L Class Licence (remember I'm pretty ignorant about
motorcycles), are either the Kawasaki ZZR250 or the Suzuki Across.
I'd appreciate any advice as to which would be better in relation to my
needs or whether there is another option I've overlooked.
I must say, after only 4 hours riding I'm HOOKED!!
Thanks in advance.
Richard.
Bunbury, Western Australia.
PS: I've appreciated the recent discussions about WA insurance too!!
Geoff Morgan
Richard Kay <richa...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:WsBk3.9351$yD2....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
> Hi!
>
Hiya Richard. Welcome.
<<snip>>
> The models that I think meet my needs at this stage, given the 250cc
> restriction of the L Class Licence (remember I'm pretty ignorant about
> motorcycles), are either the Kawasaki ZZR250 or the Suzuki Across.
>
> I'd appreciate any advice as to which would be better in relation to my
> needs or whether there is another option I've overlooked.
>
> I must say, after only 4 hours riding I'm HOOKED!!
>
The bugs got 'ya....
Both the bikes you mention will do the job, although my opinion is that the
Across may have a bit more to give on the open road. The ZZR is a twin,
whereas the Across is a four and revs harder for its power. I've ridden
both, and you should be OK on them (you're shorter and lighter than me) The
Across has a pretty shitty fuel range, but again it won't be a problem in
the areas you speak of. It's range is compensated for by the natty flip top
fake fuel tank. Perfect for a monks' robes :-)
You might want to invest in a sheepskin seat cover, as both bikes have
fairly narrow seats and might get a bit uncomfortable on Bunbury - Perth
rides. The only problem you might find is the suspension is a little on the
soft side on the Across... I find my girlfriends' get a bit unsettled on
rougher bitumen with my lard ass on it. Then again, I weigh 15kgs more than
you. As for the ZZR, I can't really speak for it on open road matters, but
around town they are fine. Easy to handle and reasonably comfortable. Just
remember though, that they are both 250s, and won't a heap left at open road
speeds. I know people who've toured the roads you speak of on the Across
with no problems....
There are a heap of 250s out there, so look around. Depending on your
budget, Honda's VTR 250 may be worth a look, although they are unfaired and
won't provide much wind protection.... I'm sure you'll get plenty of
suggestions from the crew here.
Welcome to the neighbourhood.
--
Morgz
98 CBR1100XX
Perth WA
Rides in WA? Check out http://www.pplant.com.au/warides
conn
actually not as comfortable as my ZXR 750.
come to think of it, I probably just love riding the ZXR that bit more, so
the back ache doesn't matter.
Conn
ZXR-750 L3
co...@tig.com.au
Richard Kay wrote in message ...
>Hi!
>
>I've been lurking and learning from this newsgroup for the past few weeks
>whilst Iearning how to ride (just had 4th lesson for my L Class Licence
here
>in Bunbury, WA).
>
>I'm wondering which bike to go for for starters.
>
>I'm 40 years old (mid-life crisis, hence motorcycle), 183cm tall and weigh
>about 90 kg (put on 20kg since I went over the wall from Bodhinyana
Buddhist
>Monastery where I was recently training to be a Buddhist monk).
>
>The bike will be my SOLE means of transport.
>
>It will be used as follows:
>
>a) 20% commuting around Bunbury, WA.
>b) 60% commuting from Bunbury to Perth (and Monastery) and back (about
200km
>of highway each way)
>c) 20% fun trips down to Margaret River, Albany and the like (more highway
>fun of 100km or more).
>
>Based on my recent car mileage (15,000km per three months with work car)
I'd
>expect to be doing 30,000 to 50,000 of riding per year. I love driving
>(riding)!!!! It is just like meditation.
>
>The models that I think meet my needs at this stage, given the 250cc
>restriction of the L Class Licence (remember I'm pretty ignorant about
>motorcycles), are either the Kawasaki ZZR250 or the Suzuki Across.
>
>I'd appreciate any advice as to which would be better in relation to my
>needs or whether there is another option I've overlooked.
>
>I must say, after only 4 hours riding I'm HOOKED!!
>
Bernard Kong
cheap and new...good bargain...
it lives in vic park btw, if you want to see it...
but that's me being biased cos i'm trying to sell the thing...in any case,
you'll probably want something with a fairing...
does the accross still have that fuel tank boot? i always thought that was
a nice touch...
never ridden either of them, but i assume they've got a less aggressive
riding position than the baby blades and 250cc import sports...in which case
they'd be good for the touring bit of your needs...
sorry i can't give more info...[subliminal message] BUY THE YAMAHA ZEAL
Supe
Don't pay too much attention to the weirdo's on ausmoto and the buddhists
won't kick you out of the faith.
If you're stuck to a 250cc limit the riding you're going to do will suck.
It'll be *real* fun when you get a bigger bike. Even if you don't ride any
faster the extra torque and stability will make it a more pleasant
experience.
I'd go for the ZZR over the Across.
Who wants to hear a sewing machine Across motor screaming it's way down the
road for 30000+ k's per year?
The ZZR also has a greater distance achievable from it's tank. I'm sure
you'll appreciate this, rather than feeling like you're filling up every ten
minutes.
IMHO the ZZR is also a better engineered bike and (also IMHO) Kwaka's have a
better quality output than Suzuki.
You're doing enough K's to care that the ZZR has two less cylinders every
service.......
The Across is also a bit more of a cosmopolitan, don't touch me, type bike
to work on... Have a go at getting to it's battery one day!
Either way you're too big and heavy for a 250!
The ZZR should do a bit better at lugging 90kg around as it's fairly
torquey for a 250.
Make sure you let us know what you end up on, how you like it and I wish you
many years of pleasure aboard a motorcycle.
Supe.
Richard Kay <richa...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:WsBk3.9351$yD2....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
Richard Kay
Bernard Kong <kr...@global.net.au> wrote in message
news:93238124...@pluto.global.net.au...
[SNIP]
> does the accross still have that fuel tank boot? i always thought that
was
> a nice touch...
Yes, I believe it still does which is part of the appeal. I also heard good
reports about this model from a local ex-owner down here.
Sorry, you can't tempt me with the Zeal.... :-(
Richard.
Richard Kay
Geoff Morgan <geoff....@crestoz.com.au.nobloodyspam.or.else> wrote in
message news:IKCk3.22$xn6....@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
[SNIP]
> There are a heap of 250s out there, so look around. Depending on your
> budget, Honda's VTR 250 may be worth a look, although they are unfaired
and
> won't provide much wind protection.... I'm sure you'll get plenty of
> suggestions from the crew here.
>
> Welcome to the neighbourhood.
Spoke to the crew at my local Honda/Suzuki dealership here today.
All three guys in the shop recommended the Across over the VTR 250 - largely
due to the distance travel I'm planning.
And thanks for the welcome!! :-)
Richard.
Richard Kay
[SNIP]
> The ZZR also has a greater distance achievable from it's tank. I'm sure
> you'll appreciate this, rather than feeling like you're filling up every
ten
> minutes.
>
> IMHO the ZZR is also a better engineered bike and (also IMHO) Kwaka's have
a
> better quality output than Suzuki.
>
> You're doing enough K's to care that the ZZR has two less cylinders every
> service.......
>
> The Across is also a bit more of a cosmopolitan, don't touch me, type bike
> to work on... Have a go at getting to it's battery one day!
>
> Either way you're too big and heavy for a 250!
Like your point about distance between fuel stops and the engineering
matter....
Decisions, decisions.
It is TOUGH being a NEWBIE!! :-)
Got about two weeks before I have to make a decision.
I'm teetering either way at the moment.
Another sleepless night in Bunbury...
Richard.
Matt Soul
Having just come off the ZZR250 I can highly recommend it. i'm 180cm and at
95kg am no light weight. Wife and I travelled a fair bit on it (longest trip
being Perth to Cervantes with luggage) and whilst it's no superbike it holds
its own on the road reasonably well. I used it everyday commuting between
home and the city and never encountered any problems. Bearing in mind it is
only a 250 the sorts of k's you're talking about in the time frame you're
talking about may create a different story.
Word of advice, don't get on a bigger bike until you're ready to buy one,
you may never want to get back on the smaller bike. After learning on a
GN250 and then getting on the ZZR250 I thought I was on the most powerful
bike around. Ah, ignorance is bliss. I've since bought a ZZR1100 and
recently had to ride a ZZR250 for a day as a loan bike, I had to question
myself how we managed to do what we did, but we did do it, and what fun we
had. I can fully understand what you mean when you say you're hooked...
you'll wonder what you did with yourself before you had the bike. Anyway,
enough babbling, point is, I found the ZZR250 to be a ripper of a bike for
the time I had it. No complaints at all.
Good luck with getting your licence.
Ian Dodds
Richard Kay wrote in message ...
>Hi!
>
>I'm 40 years old (mid-life crisis, hence motorcycle), 183cm tall and weigh
>about 90 kg (put on 20kg since I went over the wall from Bodhinyana
Buddhist
>Monastery where I was recently training to be a Buddhist monk).
<snip>
Richard, I'll leave your choice of bike to the rest of the ng but 40 is NOT
old! May I suggest though that rider training is a real bonus. It gives us
the skills to really enjoy our new agegroup without needing too much of the
prayer to stay alive. Not to menton that most accidents happen faster than
you can get your hands together anyway :-))
My riding is also the result of an attitude shift approaching 40. Started 3
years ago & haven't looked back. P.S. I turned 40 this year too.
Cheers
Ian CB900F OLDGUY.( don't read anything into that, it's only a nickname
:-)
Hamish
What did you first ride on?
What sort of bike do you want?
Any injuries, eg back knees, this may reduce what bikes you may want to
ride.
Despite what all the others here will recommend, I always am keen on a
trailie, with altered gearing and tyres. Given your build, which is
similar to mine, it may be something to consider?!
What speeds are you going to travel at? If you like to sit on the
higher end of the speedo, then the accros and ZZR are the way to go. If
getting there is the important thing, get the trailie, ask the other new
guy AppsDegree.
Anyway, whatever you buy you will love, and then find things that you
wish you could change.
All the best though, BTW, do you have a pony tail?
Cheers
Hamish
Richard Kay wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> I've been lurking and learning from this newsgroup for the past few weeks
> whilst Iearning how to ride (just had 4th lesson for my L Class Licence here
> in Bunbury, WA).
>
> I'm wondering which bike to go for for starters.
>
> I'm 40 years old (mid-life crisis, hence motorcycle), 183cm tall and weigh
> about 90 kg (put on 20kg since I went over the wall from Bodhinyana Buddhist
> Monastery where I was recently training to be a Buddhist monk).
>
Suzy Jackson
Welcome aboard :) When I first got my learners, I narrowed the choice
down to 2 individual bikes; both the same money ($4900). One was an
import Across, with 12000K on the clock, and the other was a ZZR, with
about 30000K.
I rode the ZZR and the Across on the day, and was really impressed with
the "fangability" of the Across. Having somewhere to stash my gear in
was the other big winner. The ZZR seemed pretty slow by comparison, but
that was probably more the individual bike than the model.
Anyways, 8 months and 10000K later, I've not regretted the decision for
a moment. The Across really is a top bike. Lots of fun to ride and
still relatively practical. Don't believe people who say they're a
nightmare to work on. I've changed the plugs, oil filter, air cleaner
etc on mine, and it's all pretty easy to do (certainly easier than a
car). The only downside is that it doesn't have a centre stand, so
cleaning the chain requires some effort.
Best of luck with your choice, and have lots of fun.
Cheers,
Suzy
Suzuki Across 250
johnn0
choice,looks like youll reach nirvana quite frequently as a rider.Q.What did
we do in previous reincarnations to be rewarded with motorbikes?
Ian Dodds <off...@malvern.starway.net.au> wrote in message
news:xKFk3.65$xn6....@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net...
>
> Richard Kay wrote in message ...
> >Hi!
> >
> Snip>
weigh
> >about 90 kg (put on 20kg since I went over the wall from Bodhinyana
> Buddhist
> >Monastery where I was recently training to be a Buddhist monk).
>
Steve Wilcock
I am in just the same situation as you. Though a few months further on.
I too am 40 and dealing with the mid life crisis.....its either the
blonde & sports car or the motorcycle.......I still like my wife
so....its the bike.
I started 12 months ago on a Honda XL 185 unreg trailie .....good to
fall off on in the scrub......then a Yammy XT 225 registered
trailie ...still have this one and I have fun in the bush on it and go
slow on the road.
In March I bought a year old Kawa GPX 250 ($4500, 7000km). It has the
exact same engine as the ZZR but slightly more upright riding position,
smaller wheels and differnt gearing, otherwise the same. Its a little
chaeper than the ZZR. It still does 160kmh when I hide behind the
screen so thats fast enuf foe me!
It goes great on the hwy...I did a 500km ride the other weekend and it
was quite comfortable.
360km to reserve and 4 litres/100km(70mpg) so economy is great.
There's lots of GPX owners in this newsgroup and I'm sure they agree
that as a first bike they are worth considering.
Get that training so you have some idea what you are doing and go for
it. I too am hooked
Steve
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Richard Kay
What a timely message!
Steve Wilcock <wil...@cqnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:7n1bsl$m66$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
[SNIP]
> In March I bought a year old Kawa GPX 250 ($4500, 7000km). It has the
> exact same engine as the ZZR but slightly more upright riding position,
> smaller wheels and differnt gearing, otherwise the same. Its a little
> chaeper than the ZZR. It still does 160kmh when I hide behind the
> screen so thats fast enuf foe me!
> Steve
I talked to a guy with one of these today. He swore by it too! I think it
might be the GPX250R for me too!!
I'll see the bank manager on Thursday about a small loan.
I just hope my advanced age, single lifestyle, generous professional income
and complete lack of material possessions (I had more gear in the
monastery!!) don't count against me. :-)
Richard.
Richard Kay
johnn0 <joh...@eisa.net.au> wrote in message
news:7n0dj1$a5k$1...@news.eisa.net.au...
> My first licence was at 35 and my only transport is a bike,seems the
perfect
> choice,looks like youll reach nirvana quite frequently as a rider.Q.What
did
> we do in previous reincarnations to be rewarded with motorbikes?
Who knows what we did? Good CARma! ;-)
As an interesting aside, Venerable Sujato of Bodhinyana Monastery told me
recently of an ex-biker monk who lives (or lived) in the Amaravati Monastery
in England. The eccentric Venerable Sir used to wear a black leather jacket
over his orange robes in winter with colours and a "SONS OF THE SHAKYANS"
banner on his back.
For those who aren't into Buddhism, the historical Buddha was a member of
the "SHAKYAN" clan of northern India (hence the term "Shakyamuni Buddha") -
so this would be the Buddhist equivalent of "GODS GARBAGE" or something
similar.
I guess old habits die hard....
Richard.
Jindaro
km out of a tank on fast riding while she only gets about 130 or so... If
you are going long distances I can recommend the tank size as some mentioned
earlier... Not a bad bike in all...
Sharon
>Richard Kay wrote:
>>
>> Hi!
>>
>> I've been lurking and learning from this newsgroup for the past few weeks
>> whilst Iearning how to ride (just had 4th lesson for my L Class Licence
here
>> in Bunbury, WA).
>>
>> I'm wondering which bike to go for for starters.
>>
>> I'm 40 years old (mid-life crisis, hence motorcycle), 183cm tall and
weigh
>> about 90 kg (put on 20kg since I went over the wall from Bodhinyana
Buddhist
>> Monastery where I was recently training to be a Buddhist monk).
>>
Sam Michaelson
> Hi!
>
> I've been lurking and learning from this newsgroup for the past few weeks
> whilst Iearning how to ride (just had 4th lesson for my L Class Licence here
> in Bunbury, WA).
Greetings, O Richard, and welcome to the seething morass which is aus.moto! (Try
not to step in that pile of Hamish just there). Now, lessee, we've had the
Aus.Moto Dance of Welcome, Welcome to Aus.Moto - The Opera (libretto available
on Kev's page), the Aus.Moto Synchronised Swimming Routine of Welcome.....
righto, righto, I've got it -
<puts on big floppy black hat with flower on it, struggles into stripey tights,
covers face in Liquid Paper>
In honour of your delurking, I shall now perform: Welcome to Aus.Moto - the
Nouveau Mime Routine!
< >
< >
< >
< >
> I'm 40 years old (mid-life crisis, hence motorcycle)
I thought you said you were old? Hey, you've only just qualified for Ulysses
Junior Fartdom!
> I must say, after only 4 hours riding I'm HOOKED!!
Yeah, it happens, even in the nicest families. Just don't let any Salvos jump
on you and try to detox you.
Sam (Bodles' Mum)
Peter Ogilvy
>I'm wondering which bike to go for for starters.
>The models that I think meet my needs at this stage, given the 250cc
>restriction of the L Class Licence (remember I'm pretty ignorant about
>motorcycles), are either the Kawasaki ZZR250 or the Suzuki Across.
I'm 183cm tall, around 85 kg and own an Across. Most of my riding
is short daily commuting through inner Melbourne, so somewhat different
to yours. I own an Across and it meets my needs well. The small range is
the biggest drawback in my mind. For the sort of distances you expect
to travel it may be far more significant. I found after five hours on
it last Sunday my bum hurt. Otherwise I'm happy with the bike.
I looked at the ZZR also and bought the Across because I found a
good one at a reasonable price. I had intended to buy a ZZR at first
but couldnt find a purple one second hand with the right combination
of price and condition. If you feel the range will be a problem
go for the ZZR. The ZZR's were generally cheaper than the Across
for similar bikes (age, condition) by about $1000
>I'd appreciate any advice as to which would be better in relation to my
>needs or whether there is another option I've overlooked.
You might consider the Kawasaki GPX (I think :-), it has the same
engine as the ZZR but is cheaper by about $1000. There are people
here who rave about them, and they seem very good value for money.
Peter
--
============================================================
Peter (the Bastard) Ogilvy S.M.A.R.T.A.R.S.E
Veronica (Purple Suzuki GSX250F Across)
============================================================
Limbo
was midlife crisis I only would have lived to 66 :-P
<snip>dealing with the mid life crisis.<snip>
Shawn Foo
<3793B009...@dsto.defence.gov.au.ANTISPAM>...
>Richard Kay wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> I've been lurking and learning from this newsgroup for the past few weeks
>> whilst Iearning how to ride (just had 4th lesson for my L Class Licence
here
>> in Bunbury, WA).
>
>Greetings, O Richard, and welcome to the seething morass which is aus.moto!
(Try
>not to step in that pile of Hamish just there). Now, lessee, we've had the
>Aus.Moto Dance of Welcome, Welcome to Aus.Moto - The Opera (libretto
available
>on Kev's page), the Aus.Moto Synchronised Swimming Routine of Welcome.....
>righto, righto, I've got it -
>
><puts on big floppy black hat with flower on it, struggles into stripey
tights,
>covers face in Liquid Paper>
>
>In honour of your delurking, I shall now perform: Welcome to Aus.Moto -
the
>Nouveau Mime Routine!
>
>< >
>< >
>< >
>< >
Maybe it's just me, but whenever I see a mime routine I
suddenly get the urge to cough, but then I have to hold it
'cause it feels rude to interrupt the silence...
Anyway.. hi Richard..
I see you've met Sam.. ermm.. don't get on her bad side,
or you'll find your kit kats missing..
Shawn Foo
GPX-250 (Anon) -> Suzuki Bandit 600 (Foolan)
Julie and Deb
on. The orange light (1/2 a tank) usually lights at around 113ks.
--
Julie and Deb
(GSX250-F "Across") (CBR600F3)
Jindaro <jin...@hydra.com.au> wrote in message
news:37947...@pink.one.net.au...
> I have a zzr and a friend has an across and I find that I can get about
300+
> km out of a tank on fast riding while she only gets about 130 or so... If
> you are going long distances I can recommend the tank size as some
mentioned
> earlier... Not a bad bike in all...
>
>
> Sharon
>
>
>
> >Richard Kay wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi!
> >>
> >> I've been lurking and learning from this newsgroup for the past few
weeks
> >> whilst Iearning how to ride (just had 4th lesson for my L Class Licence
> here
> >> in Bunbury, WA).
> >>
> >> I'm wondering which bike to go for for starters.
> >>
> >> I'm 40 years old (mid-life crisis, hence motorcycle), 183cm tall and
> weigh
> >> about 90 kg (put on 20kg since I went over the wall from Bodhinyana
> Buddhist
> >> Monastery where I was recently training to be a Buddhist monk).
> >>
> >> The bike will be my SOLE means of transport.
> >>
> >> It will be used as follows:
> >>
> >> a) 20% commuting around Bunbury, WA.
> >> b) 60% commuting from Bunbury to Perth (and Monastery) and back (about
> 200km
> >> of highway each way)
> >> c) 20% fun trips down to Margaret River, Albany and the like (more
> highway
> >> fun of 100km or more).
> >>
> >> Based on my recent car mileage (15,000km per three months with work
car)
> I'd
> >> expect to be doing 30,000 to 50,000 of riding per year. I love driving
> >> (riding)!!!! It is just like meditation.
> >>
> >> The models that I think meet my needs at this stage, given the 250cc
> >> restriction of the L Class Licence (remember I'm pretty ignorant about
> >> motorcycles), are either the Kawasaki ZZR250 or the Suzuki Across.
> >>
> >> I'd appreciate any advice as to which would be better in relation to my
> >> needs or whether there is another option I've overlooked.
> >>
> >> I must say, after only 4 hours riding I'm HOOKED!!
> >>
Richard Kay
> I've been lurking and learning from this newsgroup for the past few weeks
> whilst Iearning how to ride (just had 4th lesson for my L Class Licence
here
> in Bunbury, WA).
[SNIP]
> The models that I think meet my needs at this stage, given the 250cc
> restriction of the L Class Licence (remember I'm pretty ignorant about
> motorcycles), are either the Kawasaki ZZR250 or the Suzuki Across.
[SNIP]
My bank loan came through today and, thanks to the collective advice I've
received via this newsgroup (both publicly and privately), I've decided to
go for the KAWASAKI GPX250R.
My reasons are as follows:
1. This model is recommended by other owners.
2. This model has been around for a while and is thus a "proven" technology
(no major problems brought to my attention).
3. According to other owners this model should meet my needs.
4. Stylistically, this model is aesthetically pleasing despite the age of
the design.
5. This model is cheaper than both the KWAKA ZZR250 and SUZUKI ACROSS but
should give similar performance.
6. This model was recommended by my instructor as one of a range of
entry-level bikes that I should look at and which should meet my needs.
7. This model has an 18 litre fuel tank which means less fuel stops compared
to bikes with smaller tanks.
8. KWAKA is a good brand and its engineering is, arguably, superior to other
brands (but only one person offered this advice and, at this stage, I have
no way of verifying it).
Thanks to all who have contributed advice and helped me make a decision.
IF THERE IS SOME REASON WHY I SHOULDN'T BUY A KAWASAKI GPX250R SPEAK NOW, OR
FOREVER HOLD YOUR PIECE!!! :-)
I'll place the order as soon as I get my licence.
The lessons continue....I am not a NATURALLY GIFTED rider by any means
(Anyone alse out there like me? I need a bit of moral support at this
stage).
Had Lesson 5 yesterday which I sort of stuffed up (rear wheel locked up
during emergency braking etc) as a result of PERFORMANCE ANXIETY (it was
like this when I tried to learn Aikido - when you stop TRYING everything
flows effortlessly but how do you stop trying?).
My instruction is based on the "RIDE ON" booklet and video and my instructor
has recently completed his Level 3 Certificate in motorcycle road transport
instruction (or whatever it is called). Everything is logical and well put
together and, most importantly, when I get a heavy heart my instructor uses
gentle humour to good effect. :-)
I'm told I'll be ready for my test by lessons 8-10 (depending on how I go).
This seems a lot compared to others I know (18 year old daughter of friend
of mine got licence after 5) but when all is boiled down I've been on a
motorcycle for a total of 5 hours out of 40 years (1 hour in carpark and 4
hours in traffic).
What is the greatest number of lessons it has taken to get a bike licence?
Anyone know?
But enough from me.
I've got a 1.5 hour lesson tomorrow and I'm REALLY hanging out for it!!
Richard "I'LL GET MY LICENCE IF IT KILLS ME" Kay
(and my elderly mother says it will be the getting of my licence that WILL
kill me) ;-)
Clem Doherty
Clem was unable to attend this thread because he was sick.
signed
Clem's Mum.
(that's my "late" card!)
~
Richard Kay wrote in message ...
>Hi!
Hiya Richard!
Get the Across so I can make pathetic "rubbing it's belly for good luck"
jokes!
I've not ridden an Across but I was quite impressed with the GPX. (They're
generally pretty cheap too!)
I really like the idea of spending your formative time on a traillie though!
I haven't got any buddhist jokes but did you hear about the Mormon who
became a Hell's Angel?
Now he goes around to people's houses and tells THEM to f#ck off!!
Clem
Clem Doherty
Richard Kay wrote
~
>Had Lesson 5 yesterday which I sort of stuffed up (rear wheel locked up
>during emergency braking etc) as a result of PERFORMANCE ANXIETY (it was
>like this when I tried to learn Aikido - when you stop TRYING everything
>flows effortlessly but how do you stop trying?).
....use the FORCE Richard!
~
Mate, don't rush it! (I guess I'm preaching to the converted but just take
it easy and make sure it's still fun).
Clem
(I guess Aikido must be a bit like bed-wetting.... everything flows
effortlessly!)
Suzy Jackson
Richard Kay wrote:
> IF THERE IS SOME REASON WHY I SHOULDN'T BUY A KAWASAKI GPX250R SPEAK NOW, OR
> FOREVER HOLD YOUR PIECE!!! :-)
Ummm... Yup - the Across is cooler, 'cos I've got one, and to say
otherwise would be bad for my ego :) No, seriously, the GPX is a great
bike to learn on.
> What is the greatest number of lessons it has taken to get a bike licence?
> Anyone know?
Here on the other side of the continent, we don't seem to have these
lessons like you have. Before the RTA let me have my L plates, I had to
do a 6 odd hour course, which I took over two evenings. After that, I
bought a bike and rode totally everywhere on it - the only restrictions
placed on learner riders here is that you don't pillion, and don't do
more than 80km/h (or at least don't get caught doing more than 80).
In any case, I put in probably 100 hours road riding during the three
months that I had my Learners, and maybe another 10-15 hours riding
around in a carpark that I'd found, doing U-turns and emergency stops
and stuff. All of this though was entirely under my own steam, with ne
instruction except for my own "get it right, stupid" comments.
Must have worked OK, because I passed the P test on the first try, on my
Across.
Don't despair - time on the bike and a little logical thought cures any
problems.
Cheers,
Suzy
Richard Kay
news:379904A7...@suzy.dropbear.id.au...
[SNIP]
> Here on the other side of the continent, we don't seem to have these
> lessons like you have. Before the RTA let me have my L plates, I had to
> do a 6 odd hour course, which I took over two evenings. After that, I
> bought a bike and rode totally everywhere on it - the only restrictions
> placed on learner riders here is that you don't pillion, and don't do
> more than 80km/h (or at least don't get caught doing more than 80).
>
> In any case, I put in probably 100 hours road riding during the three
> months that I had my Learners, and maybe another 10-15 hours riding
> around in a carpark that I'd found, doing U-turns and emergency stops
> and stuff. All of this though was entirely under my own steam, with ne
> instruction except for my own "get it right, stupid" comments.
Just had that 6th lesson. Everything went well....emergency braking, hill
starts, figure of 8's, U turns, changing gears down before I come to a stop,
dirt riding, highway riding etc. I think I'm onto the next plateau (newbie
plateau that is) and I'm gonna have another 1.5 hour lesson tomorrow ($50
for a 1.5 hour lesson or $35 for an hour lesson).
But I really like the system you've described Suzy. Pity I shifted from
Yackandandah, Victoria. :-(
From my perspective the ideal is time in the saddle by myself with a formal
lesson or two each week. Then time by myself to practice what I've learnt
each lesson. And then go back for more instruction....and so on.
It suspect that long hours of pratice actually riding, coupled with good
formal instruction in between, is the best recipe for success and the one
most likely to produce good results.
Have a good weekend.
Richard.
Cassie
<richa...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>I wrote earlier this week:
>
>> I've been lurking and learning from this newsgroup for the past few weeks
>> whilst Iearning how to ride (just had 4th lesson for my L Class Licence
>here
>> in Bunbury, WA).
And I didn't dive in and welcome you but I'm really only fairly new
myself :) Belated welcome!
>The lessons continue....I am not a NATURALLY GIFTED rider by any means
>(Anyone alse out there like me? I need a bit of moral support at this
>stage).
I will raise my hand here! I do not feel that I am a naturally gifted
rider. I got my license about a month ago and I still feel well
underskilled out there and expect I will feel that way for some time!
>Had Lesson 5 yesterday which I sort of stuffed up (rear wheel locked up
>during emergency braking etc) as a result of PERFORMANCE ANXIETY (it was
>like this when I tried to learn Aikido - when you stop TRYING everything
>flows effortlessly but how do you stop trying?).
This is the hard bit!!! I was very fortunate in that I had (and still
have) a very good friend who is a professional instructor who would
take me out on the weekends and learned a heck of a lot with him: and
that I will put down to one main fact: he's really good at getting me
to relax! I think alot of teachers don't actually know the basics for
putting people into a good space for learning, and relaxation really
is the key. I remember one session where things felt like they
suddenly "clicked" - I just suddenly felt that I somehow *got* it -
and riding was transformed from a slightly scary and difficult thing,
to a FUN thing! It was wild! ... Don't know if this is a coomon
experience but it's what happened with me. I still have moments of
utter confabulation but I know when I really made a big leap, and it
was when I was relaxed, calm, and smiling. I guess I can't give too
much help with how to relax yourself: but i would say number one :
THIS IS NOT A RACE! Don't feel you are taking too long to learn
something, and also remember that the older you get the longer it
tends to take to pick up a new skill. I reckon I would have got my
license in half the time if I'd done it when I was 18!
>Everything is logical and well put
>together and, most importantly, when I get a heavy heart my instructor uses
>gentle humour to good effect. :-)
Sounds like a good instructor!
>I'm told I'll be ready for my test by lessons 8-10 (depending on how I go).
>This seems a lot compared to others I know (18 year old daughter of friend
>of mine got licence after 5) but when all is boiled down I've been on a
>motorcycle for a total of 5 hours out of 40 years (1 hour in carpark and 4
>hours in traffic).
Geez! I wasn't allowed out in traffic until I'd done about 10 hours in
the car park!!!!!! (this was both with friend & professional lessons
though, if it was just lessons, it was only 3 hours...)
It seems you are getting through your lessons pretty fast! I was
taking one "proper" (read: had to fork out money for) lesson every two
weeks, interspersing with one or two lessons with my friend a week.
Having time for things to "sink in" I think helped, rather than what
you might expect that I'd forget what I'd learned the week before...
>What is the greatest number of lessons it has taken to get a bike licence?
>Anyone know?
Oh Richard, do not fear, I can guarantee (as my instructor did!) that
there is someone out there who took longer and more lessons! And there
was someone out there who took no lessons and was a complete freak of
nature. It's a bit pointless to think of it in quantitative terms: it
takes you as many lessons as you *you* need to get your license, no
more and no less. You can't compare your needs to others, because
everyone is so very different. For what it's worth, I felt I was
taking FAR too long getting mine, and not passing my first test
sucked, but it just took as long as was right for me. Don't get
discouraged if it takes longer than you'd hoped or expected.
>I've got a 1.5 hour lesson tomorrow and I'm REALLY hanging out for it!!
Have a great one, looks like the weather will hold good for it!
....incidentally, if, once you get your license, you want to do some
post-license advanced rider training, my friend wot helped me out when
I was getting mine is planning a one day course aimed at those who
have got their L's, had a bit of experience on the road but perhaps
only a few months. He may be looking for a couple of guinea pigs to
help test the course in the not too distant future before it is
officially launched, not sure how many yet, but if he needs people
I'll make an announcement here, and if you feel like riding up from
Bunbury, you'd be more than welcome!
Best o luck,
Cassie
GN250
Julie and Deb
light in the 250 GP series at present that was personally coached when
learning because they thought he'd never be able to get his road
licence... --
Julie and Deb
(GSXR1100) (CBR600F3)
Cassie <prop...@omen.com.nospam4me.au> wrote in message
news:3799a19e...@news.cowan.edu.au...
Sam Michaelson
Clem Doherty wrote:
> ....use the FORCE Richard!
> ~
> Mate, don't rush it! (I guess I'm preaching to the converted but just take
> it easy and make sure it's still fun).
> Clem
> (I guess Aikido must be a bit like bed-wetting.... everything flows
> effortlessly!)
I reckon it's more like going to Sunday School: you get dressed up in clobber
you wouldn't be seen dead in anywhere else, your male classmates take great
delight in trying to throw you across the room by the pigtail, there's a
certain amount of grovelling about on your knees involved, and every few
minutes a man in a little black dress comes over, rolls his eyes and tells you
what you're doing wrong AGAIN. (Mind you, we never went to the pub after
Sunday school.)
Ermintrude Kennanniwhacker
Geoff Morgan
Richard Kay <richa...@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:lqYl3.11716>
> Had Lesson 5 yesterday which I sort of stuffed up (rear wheel locked up
> during emergency braking etc) as a result of PERFORMANCE ANXIETY (it was
> like this when I tried to learn Aikido - when you stop TRYING everything
> flows effortlessly but how do you stop trying?).
>
I had that problem too Richard, and I actually locked the rear slightly in
my test too. Don't worry too much, it will come to you. I found it hard to
achieve on the CB250 I was learning on at the time. My 100+ kg frame and all
that weight tranfer forward meant it took very little braking effort to
*not* lock the rear.
<<snip>>
> I'm told I'll be ready for my test by lessons 8-10 (depending on how I
go).
About right.
> This seems a lot compared to others I know (18 year old daughter of friend
> of mine got licence after 5) but when all is boiled down I've been on a
> motorcycle for a total of 5 hours out of 40 years (1 hour in carpark and 4
> hours in traffic).
I took 10 lessons, but probably was OK to try for the test after about 6.
Remember though, the object of the lessons is first and foremost to learn to
ride competently and to stay alive. The test is secondary. Doing only five
lessons to me smacks of learning to pass the test, not stay alive.
My SO took 3 or 4 lessons less than me. She's dropped her bike (at a stop or
walking pace thankfully) twice. I haven't had a drop at all. (touch wood)
Doesn't mean I won't, but the point I'm trying to make is that the number of
lessons you have is irrelevant to how good you are. The more the better
IMHO.
>
> What is the greatest number of lessons it has taken to get a bike licence?
> Anyone know?
>
> But enough from me.
>
> I've got a 1.5 hour lesson tomorrow and I'm REALLY hanging out for it!!
>
All the more reason to do more lessons ! I would have done more if I could
get the bookings... I was enjoying myself, and it was the only way I could
get on a bike.
> Richard "I'LL GET MY LICENCE IF IT KILLS ME" Kay
> (and my elderly mother says it will be the getting of my licence that WILL
> kill me) ;-)
So did mine. She got over it and now often asks to go for a ride...... :-)
--
Morgz
98 CBR1100XX
Perth WA
Rides in WA? Check out http://www.pplant.com.au/warides
Geoff Morgan
> Suzy Jackson <su...@suzy.dropbear.id.au> wrote in message
> news:379904A7...@suzy.dropbear.id.au...
>
> [SNIP]
>
> starts, figure of 8's, U turns, changing gears down before I come to a
stop,
> dirt riding, highway riding etc. I think I'm onto the next plateau (newbie
> plateau that is) and I'm gonna have another 1.5 hour lesson tomorrow ($50
> for a 1.5 hour lesson or $35 for an hour lesson).
>
I found it kinda like playing golf. Some days I was good, other days I was
crap. Until it *really* set in.
> But I really like the system you've described Suzy. Pity I shifted from
> Yackandandah, Victoria. :-(
>
I think the WA system has merit. It means that the majority get professional
instruction before they can become a danger to themselves and others on the
road. By the time you're allowed on the roads by yourself, you at least have
proper control of the bike, albeit without experience, which is where the
real learning starts. Unfortunately, there is precious little to follow it
up with in the West, unlike all the Stay Upright et al courses in the
Eastern States.
> From my perspective the ideal is time in the saddle by myself with a
formal
> lesson or two each week. Then time by myself to practice what I've learnt
> each lesson. And then go back for more instruction....and so on.
>
> It suspect that long hours of pratice actually riding, coupled with good
> formal instruction in between, is the best recipe for success and the one
> most likely to produce good results.
>
True. But in the initial stages, I don't think practicing on the road should
be done by yourself. When you're riding with the instructor, he / she is
probably doing things you aren't aware of, like providing a buffer zone
between you and traffic, making holes in traffic for you and watching for
potential danger. Of course you will ideally be doing this too, but as Keith
Code says it, you will be spending more of your dollar of attention just
riding the bike in the early stages. If you were out by yourself, that could
be fatal....
Richard Kay
Thanks for your message of support and for the insight into your own
training.
Everything clicked on the weekend and I'm off to do my test in a week or
two. :-)
And yes, I'll certainly look out for your post about further training.
I WAS SO dejected after that lesson....I hate failing. Hence the post. :-(
But with a little patience and skill my instructor helped me get to the next
plateau....
I'll keep a lookout for your posts.
Warm regards,
Richard.
GSX250R Owner Soon (Sign Bank Loan Papers Wednesday)
Cassie <prop...@omen.com.nospam4me.au> wrote in message
news:3799a19e...@news.cowan.edu.au...
> Hiya Richard,
>
> <richa...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
> >I wrote earlier this week:
> >
> >> I've been lurking and learning from this newsgroup for the past few
weeks
> >> whilst Iearning how to ride (just had 4th lesson for my L Class Licence
> >here
> >> in Bunbury, WA).
>
> And I didn't dive in and welcome you but I'm really only fairly new
> myself :) Belated welcome!
>
> >The lessons continue....I am not a NATURALLY GIFTED rider by any means
> >(Anyone alse out there like me? I need a bit of moral support at this
> >stage).
>
> I will raise my hand here! I do not feel that I am a naturally gifted
> rider. I got my license about a month ago and I still feel well
> underskilled out there and expect I will feel that way for some time!
>
> >Had Lesson 5 yesterday which I sort of stuffed up (rear wheel locked up
> >during emergency braking etc) as a result of PERFORMANCE ANXIETY (it was
> >like this when I tried to learn Aikido - when you stop TRYING everything
> >flows effortlessly but how do you stop trying?).
>
> This is the hard bit!!! I was very fortunate in that I had (and still
> have) a very good friend who is a professional instructor who would
> take me out on the weekends and learned a heck of a lot with him: and
> that I will put down to one main fact: he's really good at getting me
> to relax! I think alot of teachers don't actually know the basics for
> putting people into a good space for learning, and relaxation really
> is the key. I remember one session where things felt like they
> suddenly "clicked" - I just suddenly felt that I somehow *got* it -
> and riding was transformed from a slightly scary and difficult thing,
> to a FUN thing! It was wild! ... Don't know if this is a coomon
> experience but it's what happened with me. I still have moments of
> utter confabulation but I know when I really made a big leap, and it
> was when I was relaxed, calm, and smiling. I guess I can't give too
> much help with how to relax yourself: but i would say number one :
> THIS IS NOT A RACE! Don't feel you are taking too long to learn
> something, and also remember that the older you get the longer it
> tends to take to pick up a new skill. I reckon I would have got my
> license in half the time if I'd done it when I was 18!
>
> >Everything is logical and well put
> >together and, most importantly, when I get a heavy heart my instructor
uses
> >gentle humour to good effect. :-)
>
> Sounds like a good instructor!
>
> >I'm told I'll be ready for my test by lessons 8-10 (depending on how I
go).
> >This seems a lot compared to others I know (18 year old daughter of
friend
> >of mine got licence after 5) but when all is boiled down I've been on a
> >motorcycle for a total of 5 hours out of 40 years (1 hour in carpark and
4
> >hours in traffic).
>
> Geez! I wasn't allowed out in traffic until I'd done about 10 hours in
> the car park!!!!!! (this was both with friend & professional lessons
> though, if it was just lessons, it was only 3 hours...)
>
> It seems you are getting through your lessons pretty fast! I was
> taking one "proper" (read: had to fork out money for) lesson every two
> weeks, interspersing with one or two lessons with my friend a week.
> Having time for things to "sink in" I think helped, rather than what
> you might expect that I'd forget what I'd learned the week before...
>
> >What is the greatest number of lessons it has taken to get a bike
licence?
> >Anyone know?
>
> Oh Richard, do not fear, I can guarantee (as my instructor did!) that
> there is someone out there who took longer and more lessons! And there
> was someone out there who took no lessons and was a complete freak of
> nature. It's a bit pointless to think of it in quantitative terms: it
> takes you as many lessons as you *you* need to get your license, no
> more and no less. You can't compare your needs to others, because
> everyone is so very different. For what it's worth, I felt I was
> taking FAR too long getting mine, and not passing my first test
> sucked, but it just took as long as was right for me. Don't get
> discouraged if it takes longer than you'd hoped or expected.
>
> >I've got a 1.5 hour lesson tomorrow and I'm REALLY hanging out for it!!
>
Martin Taylor
RK> I'm told I'll be ready for my test by lessons 8-10 (depending on how I
RK> go). This seems a lot compared to others I know (18 year old daughter
RK> of friend of mine got licence after 5) but when all is boiled down I've
RK> been on a motorcycle for a total of 5 hours out of 40 years (1 hour in
RK> carpark and 4 hours in traffic).
Gawd how things have changed. When I went for my learners, all I was
required to do was to answer the 30 question test, do the eyesight thing
and that was it.
For the licence test, I rode a Suzuki GT380 over to the local testing
station, at the time ran by the police TOG. I had forgotten a bit of
paperwork. So, I had to ride home to get it. The copper was s'posed to
watch me as I rode away, but didn't even bother leaving the office. When
I returned, the paperwork was completed.
I also recall a mate going for his licence on a Kawasaki Z1 900.
Interestingly enough, he still has it, although it looks rather ratty
now, as he never rides any more. Being a typical farmer, he can't bring
himself to get rid of it.
A mate recently became a Vicroads instructor/tester for budding
motorcyclists. He and I grew up on trailbikes together (I think they're
called "dirtbikes" these days). He had to go through the testing process
himself as part of his training and accreditation. He failed it first
time up. Yet, I'd rate his roadcraft and skills as more than adequate.
He described to me the process of getting a learner's permit, then
finally, the licence. I'm going to go over there one day, when he's on
duty and it's quiet and go through it myself. Somehow, I don't expect to
pass.
.. Opportunities always look bigger going than coming.
MJT
---------------
Change "A3" to "a1" for an email reply
Gippsland, Victoria, Australia