Bloody *$#% thing won't start!!
Dan Guillaumier
attractive aus.motians.
</greasing>
Ahem.
I choose to begin my plea for help... now.
On Sunday I picked up my new RGV (new for me anyway) that I will be
using in my wobbly debut to proddy racing. I decided to have a bit of a
look over it yesterday so that I didn't look like a complete knob in the
pits wondering where to put the two-stroke oil, etc.
Anway, I started it and it ran for all of 3 seconds. I didn't get it
going again. The previous owner was able to start it no problems first
go every time I looked at it and it would run for considerably longer
than three seconds.
My question? What on earth am I doing wrong???
Before anyone asks I'll clear up the simple matters-
* The ignition is ON
* The kill switch is on RUN
* The fuel tap is ON
* The tank is about HALF FULL
* The two-stroke oil is about HALF FULL
* The choke is OPEN
* The bike is a '95 RGV250
Am I missing anything? Should I make a small sacrifice before trying to
start it? Am I biting my tongue the wrong way?
I got the previous owner (a mechanic) to come over to see what was
happening. It took a while, but he got it going after about ten minutes
of playing with things, and it stayed running. He said I just needed to
make sure the choke was open and I'd be right (I didn't see him make a
small sacrifice). Anyway, a few hours after he left I tried again and I
got the same thing - 3 seconds followed by nothing. This is driving me
insane!!!
Oh, and after unsuccessfully kicking it over a few times I noticed that
drops of oil start appearing on the floor directly below the front
cylinder. I can't find the actual source though. Please say this isn't
bad...
Any ideas? I don't wanna ring him again so soon for fear of looking like
a complete twat. At least I'm relatively faceless here...
Thanks for *ANY* help.
Dan
ZX-9R
RGV250 (grrrrr)
--
Dan Guillaumier
Rostrum Pty Ltd - Software Development
mailto:d...@rostrum.com.au
http://www.rostrum.com.au/
--
Peter Tipping
The oil *may* not be too bad.... Done some work on a mates RGV. Not to
long after replacing some seals, he has a similar leak from the front
cylinder. It comes from the power valve spindle.
Have you checked for vapour lock in the tank?? My RZ500 used to suffer this
all the time. Just open the tank, you may hear a rush of air in, then close
it again, then try to start it. Haven't heard of the RGV's suffering this
though...
The choke winds around, make sure it is all the way round.....then play a
little in between. It may need a damn good service, the carbs cleaning &
such.
Never had that many problems with my mates 2 though!!
Sorry.
Peter.
Dan Guillaumier wrote in message <36AE4DF3...@rostrum.com.au>...
je...@jeffles.demon.co.uk
d...@rostrum.com.au wrote:
> Greetings wise, gracious, talented, sweet-smelling, highly intelligent,
> attractive aus.motians.
> </greasing>
>
> Ahem.
>
> drops of oil start appearing on the floor directly below the front
> cylinder. I can't find the actual source though. Please say this isn't
> bad...
>
> Any ideas?
> ZX-9R
> RGV250 (grrrrr)
I'm no expert on two strokes, however it does sound like a fuel/oil type of
thing, but of the most basic kind. When you start it (sounds like everything
is in the right place) how do you actually use the throttle? I have had a few
mates with 2 strokes who had a bugger of a time starting their bikes, (in
fact also some with 4 strokes) simply by not having the kickstart/throttle
thingy in the brain connected. This isn't meant to be deriding of anyones
skills or abilities, but it seems common to either not give the loud-lever
enough twist as you kick, or to give it so much that the engine floods from
the start (which may explain the oily drips on the floor). It's a difficult
one to quantify, a bit like the ability to kickstart a Ducati or an old Brit
bike - you sort of get it engraved on your mind (and frequently your
shins....). I usually find that if a 2 stroke won't fire in 2-3 kicks it is
often flooded, the best way of removing that quickly is to turn off the
choke, open the throttle as far as possible and kick rapidly and repeatedly
to clear the excess fuel/oil. I know it sounds like that would further flood
the engine, but trust me it pulls enough air through to clear out the
crankcase and cylinders without pulling too much more fuel through. After
about 8-10 kicks, try starting the bike again, but maybe with less choke, if
any. If it still won't fire, get the plugs out and see if they're wet and
oily - often they will be. If so, use something like meths or surgical spirit
to wash off the excess fuel/oil and use light emery to clean the electrodes,
then wash again in meths and allow to dry. Or use new plugs of the correct
grade - 2 stroke riders seem to make a habit of carrying at least one spare
set of plugs in case of fouling. Other things to check might be whether the
previous owner has ported the engine which tends to trade off ease of
starting with top-end power gain, and whether the plugs are the right grade,
however if the previous bod and your mate could start it, it seems like the
engine should be okay.
Hope that is of help, regards,
Jeffles
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Dan Guillaumier
>
> Dan,
>
> The oil *may* not be too bad.... Done some work on a mates RGV. Not to
> long after replacing some seals, he has a similar leak from the front
> cylinder. It comes from the power valve spindle.
Thanks. I'll have a look.
> Have you checked for vapour lock in the tank?? My RZ500 used to suffer this
> all the time. Just open the tank, you may hear a rush of air in, then close
> it again, then try to start it. Haven't heard of the RGV's suffering this
> though...
Nah, there's a breather hose in the top of the tank that should stop
this from happening.
> The choke winds around, make sure it is all the way round.....then play a
> little in between. It may need a damn good service, the carbs cleaning &
> such.
Another personal reply that I got mentioned that I should try setting
the choke in different positions too, to make sure it isn't too rich or
lean. Maybe the previous owner knows what position to set the choke, but
doesn't realise that he's doing it.
Thanks Peter.
Dan
--
Dan Guillaumier
Rostrum Pty Ltd - Software Development
mailto:d...@rostrum.com.au
http://www.rostrum.com.au/
--
"I am a man, but I can change, I suppose, if I have to."
--
Hamish Alker-Jones
Dont want to sound like I am insulting your intelligence but...
Have you cleaned the plugs? Are the caps on properly? Are you kicking
hard enough?
What is the idle setting on the carbs set too?
Do you have a hill to roll start it down? Give that a try. Put yer
leathers on first though!!
Cheers
Hamish
David Santwyk-Anderson
Dan Guillaumier wrote in message <36AE4DF3...@rostrum.com.au>...
>Anway, I started it and it ran for all of 3 seconds. I didn't get it
>going again. The previous owner was able to start it no problems first
>go every time I looked at it and it would run for considerably longer
>than three seconds.
>* The choke is OPEN
>* The bike is a '95 RGV250
>
>Thanks for *ANY* help.
>
When you say choke is 'open' does that mean it is 'on' or 'off'??
Starting procedure for any engine incorporating a choke should be
simple......ie. choke 'on' until it fires, ...then choke 'off' to kick it
over........repeat until engine starts and runs freely on throttle....then
adjust choke so that engine runs easily without throttle as it warms
up...usually only a few minutes is necessary for this.
David
Marker_Man
Make sure that if you are using the choke that the throttle is
compleatly shut.
It sounds like you are flooding it.
If it is flooded, set the choke in the "off" position and kick start
with a full thotle untill it fires up.
The oil is from the power valves and is no big concern other than it may
start to gum things up a bit. Its just unburnt oil from your 2 stroke
mix, It points to it having been flooded or to rich on the oil.
Once you are on the track, this drama should clear up.
MM
Dan Guillaumier wrote:
>
> Greetings wise, gracious, talented, sweet-smelling, highly intelligent,
> attractive aus.motians.
> </greasing>
>
> Ahem.
>
> I choose to begin my plea for help... now.
> On Sunday I picked up my new RGV (new for me anyway) that I will be
> using in my wobbly debut to proddy racing. I decided to have a bit of a
> look over it yesterday so that I didn't look like a complete knob in the
> pits wondering where to put the two-stroke oil, etc.
>
> Anway, I started it and it ran for all of 3 seconds. I didn't get it
> going again. The previous owner was able to start it no problems first
> go every time I looked at it and it would run for considerably longer
> than three seconds.
>
> My question? What on earth am I doing wrong???
> Before anyone asks I'll clear up the simple matters-
> * The ignition is ON
> * The kill switch is on RUN
> * The fuel tap is ON
> * The tank is about HALF FULL
> * The two-stroke oil is about HALF FULL
> * The choke is OPEN
> * The bike is a '95 RGV250
>
> Am I missing anything? Should I make a small sacrifice before trying to
> start it? Am I biting my tongue the wrong way?
>
> I got the previous owner (a mechanic) to come over to see what was
> happening. It took a while, but he got it going after about ten minutes
> of playing with things, and it stayed running. He said I just needed to
> make sure the choke was open and I'd be right (I didn't see him make a
> small sacrifice). Anyway, a few hours after he left I tried again and I
> got the same thing - 3 seconds followed by nothing. This is driving me
> insane!!!
>
> Oh, and after unsuccessfully kicking it over a few times I noticed that
> drops of oil start appearing on the floor directly below the front
> cylinder. I can't find the actual source though. Please say this isn't
> bad...
>
> Any ideas? I don't wanna ring him again so soon for fear of looking like
> a complete twat. At least I'm relatively faceless here...
>
> Thanks for *ANY* help.
>
> Dan
> ZX-9R
> RGV250 (grrrrr)
>
Sam Michaelson
Dan Guillaumier wrote:
> Greetings wise, gracious, talented, sweet-smelling, highly intelligent,
> attractive aus.motians.
Where? Where?
> Anway, I started it and it ran for all of 3 seconds. I didn't get it
> going again. The previous owner was able to start it no problems first
> go every time I looked at it and it would run for considerably longer
> than three seconds.
>
> My question? What on earth am I doing wrong???
Not wanting to state the obvious, but with things mechanical the obvious is
all I understand - I had a stroker for four years, and I found that any time
I was having trouble starting her, there were two things I could try:
1) Pull out the plugs. Clean the plugs or replace the plugs. This was my
cure for everything from a sluggish engine to bubonic plague. The funny
thing is, it usually did the trick. (For the bike anyway, for bubonic
plague I suggest you consult your doctor for some antibiotics.)
2) the choke had to be in JUST EXACTLY the right spot. Too much, and she'd
flood. Not enough, and I'd be bouncing on the kickstarter all day
Good luck. And if you see any more of those wise, gracious, talented,
sweet-smelling, highly intelligent, attractive aus.motians you spotted
earlier, send us some, we could do with a few of them in here.
Sam (Boadicea's Mummy)
Bob Bluegum
"Peter Tipping" <fo...@usa.net> wrote:
>Dan,
>>My question? What on earth am I doing wrong???
>>Before anyone asks I'll clear up the simple matters-
>>* The ignition is ON
>>* The kill switch is on RUN
>>* The fuel tap is ON
>>* The tank is about HALF FULL
>>* The two-stroke oil is about HALF FULL
>>* The choke is OPEN
>>* The bike is a '95 RGV250
>>
That oil dripping out is probably dirty/sooty fuel.
Sounds like its flooding to me...or you're flooding it :-).
Too much throttle or choke - or too large a jet size (if it's been fiddled
with).
Cheers.
Bob B.
Johno
Sam Michaelson <sam.mic...@dsto.defence.gov.au.ANTISPAM> wrote in
article <36AF8D7E...@dsto.defence.gov.au.ANTISPAM>...
Geoff Hansford
> You rang...
Look up in the sky...
Faster than a speeding CT110,
Leaps long threads in a single Pun,
More powerful than Hangry's socks,
It's a job for FoosterMan...
Geoff_San
Kevin Gleeson
- - - - - - -
Kevin Gleeson
Imagine It
3D animation and graphics
Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
ke...@imagine-it.com.au
http://www.imagine-it.com.au
aus.motorcycles bike page
http://www.imagine-it.com.au/ausmoto
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Andrew Mackie
> Hey Dan
> Dont want to sound like I am insulting your intelligence but...
> Have you cleaned the plugs? Are the caps on properly? Are you kicking
> hard enough?
> What is the idle setting on the carbs set too?
> Do you have a hill to roll start it down? Give that a try. Put yer
> leathers on first though!!
Good advice Hamish.
Plugs in two strokes are the weirdest things I've ever come across. A
perfectly clean and unabused plug will fire on the outside(testing) but will
not fire when under compression (happens in four strokes as well, but it's
rare). And don't be fooled that a new plug is a good plug. I've had these fail
straight out of the box also! For the life of me I don't know why it only
seems to be two strokes that suffer from this. :-/
Another trick is to pour a LITTLE fuel on the plug, light it, to heat the
plug, and then replace it in the head before it cools and kick like buggery.
If this alone works it's a sure bet that you are using too much choke or that
the carbs are flooding.
Regards
Andrew Mackie
--
The author solemnly warrants and guarantees that there are no hidden
lies and only one hidden joke in the above paragraphs.
Dan Guillaumier
It looks like I've got quite a bit of experimentation to do this
weekend, mainly with choke settings and plugs.
I'll hopefully let you know on Monday who wins. ;)
Dan
--
Dan Guillaumier
Rostrum Pty Ltd - Software Development
mailto:d...@rostrum.com.au
http://www.rostrum.com.au/
--
Damian Carvolth
>
>On 27-Jan-99, Hamish Alker-Jones scribbled:
>Plugs in two strokes are the weirdest things I've ever come across. A
>perfectly clean and unabused plug will fire on the outside(testing) but will
>not fire when under compression (happens in four strokes as well, but it's
>rare). And don't be fooled that a new plug is a good plug. I've had these fail
>straight out of the box also! For the life of me I don't know why it only
>seems to be two strokes that suffer from this. :-/
To say they alone suffer from those things is incorrect. 4 strokes just suffer
less often.
The thing about plugs is it's a wonder they work at all. For a plug to fire
your mixture it needs to light in high pressure and temperature while there is
a wicked amount of turbulence about, then and only then there needs to be a
combustable mixture adjacent to the spark during the tiny amount of time it
stays lit.
Add oil vapour and the generally less stabil enviroment in the 2 stroke
combustion chamber and the chances of getting ignition just go down a bit.
I'm never amazed when they stop, just elated when they go :) Maybe I should buy
a (old) Triumph....
--
Damian Carvolth
"I'm just a startled bunny in the headlights of life", L.J. Young
dam...@dem.csiro.au
http://www.brb.dem.csiro.au/unrestricted/people/CarvolthDamian/
http://dove.mtx.net.au/~bryanb/members.htm#Damian Carvolth
Peter Ogilvy
>Look up in the sky...
>Faster than a speeding CT110,
>Leaps long threads in a single Pun,
>More powerful than Hangry's socks,
>It's a job for FoosterMan...
Dont encourage him Geoff ,next we know
he'll be riding around with his undies
over his his leathers in some bizzare
manga pun routine :-)
Images of 'cootie' from Cerberus spring to mind 8-}
Peter
--
============================================================
Peter (the Bastard) Ogilvy
Veronica (Purple Suzuki GSX250F Across)
============================================================
Clem Doherty
Andrew Mackie wrote in message ...
.
(about fouled spark plugs)
.
>Another trick is to pour a LITTLE fuel on the plug, light it, to heat the
>plug, and then replace it in the head before it cools and kick like
buggery.
me!)
I tried this once with metho. Unfortunately you can't see metho burn in
bright daylight and I'd unknowingly set my whole left hand on fire!
Woo Hoo did I jump!!
Clem
Clem Doherty
Full choke, CLOSED throttle.
Do NOT move throttle from the stop until AFTER it has fired and then kinda
"whang" and catch it as it drops.
Dunno about the spots though!
Clem
(...call me an idiot!!)
Eric Berry
<cdoh...@powerup.com.au> had this to say:
|Clem
|(...call me an idiot!!)
|
You're an idiot
Cheers,
Eric
.
Ne Cede Malis
=============================================
Eric J Berry JP
Justice of the Peace, Firefighter, Single Dad
and Motorcycle Rider (Yamaha XJ900 - WyleE)
=============================================
http://www.fukngruvn.org/kg5/
remove extremely to e-mail
Suzanne Jackson
Craig Turner wrote,
> I've got an RGV that I thought was tempramental until it taught me its
> ways.
>
> First I try and start it with the stand up and the bike upright. Don't
> know why but this seems to improve the startability.
>
> Ignition on, Kill Switch On, Fuel on.
>
> Choke off (ie no Choke). Give it three or four good kicks, with a
> slight twist of throttle just as you hit the bottom of the kick.
>
> If its warm this is often enough, but getting the timing of the twist
> of throttle and the amount of throttle right takes a bit of practice.
>
> Ok still not started? Wait a few seconds. Then:
> 1/3 choke, (you might need more but 1/3 works for me), and try to
> start as above, not too much throttle, and back off on the throttle
> when you have finished with the kick (a snapping action with the
> wrist)
This is approximately where I'd give up entirely and sell the bloody thing.
You can't tell me a motorbike would be such a pain in the butt to start and
still be useable. Gads. On my Across, if it doesn't start first press, with
no throttle or choke, I'm whinging to anyone who'll listen.
Perhaps you got conned, and bought my dad's old lawnmower?
Running away now,
Suzy
Suzy Jackson
Suzuki Across 250
http://www.suzy.dropbear.id.au/suzyj/
Clem Doherty
Eric Berry wrote in message .
>|(...call me an idiot!!)
.
>You're an idiot
.
Thanx Eric, but I thought the answer was
"Waiter; an idiot for my friend, please!"
clem
Craig Motbey
>
>From my mach111 days;
>Full choke, CLOSED throttle.
>Do NOT move throttle from the stop until AFTER it has fired and then kinda
>"whang" and catch it as it drops.
>Dunno about the spots though!
>(...call me an idiot!!)
Gee...that sounds exactly like the starting technique for the Beastie. Modern
Kawasaki owner-type-people: do you still need to do this, or has Kawasaki
figured out how to make a bike that'll start normally yet?
--
Craig Motbey
1984 GPz750 (The Big Red Beastie)
Russell Arnold
Motbey) wrote:
>
>Gee...that sounds exactly like the starting technique for the Beastie. Modern
>Kawasaki owner-type-people: do you still need to do this, or has Kawasaki
>figured out how to make a bike that'll start normally yet?
>
Yup. Turn on ignition, pull choke fully out - press starter button and
invariably starts first time. Occassionally stops after a couple of
minutes - but that's because my brain wasn't engaged and I forgot to
turn on the fuel :)
Only need the choke when the motor hasn't been running for an hour or
so, of course.
--
Russell Arnold
Gidgegannup Springs, WA
1998 Vulcan Nomad
Suzii
stop hassling us ... we have a great name
Suzii
cbr250r
Craig Turner wrote in message
<36b9fea9...@news.ozemail.com.au>...
>On Tue, 02 Feb 1999 07:40:47 +1100, Suzanne Jackson
><su...@suzy.dropbear.id.au> wrote:
>
>>Hi all,
>
>Hi Suzy (wow, someone named after a motorbike manufacturer!)
>
snip
>>Suzy
> Seriously thought, you were conceived on a Suzuki right? Why
else
>would they call you Suzy?
>
>----------------
>Craig Turner, Arte et Marte
>www.ozemail.com.au/~caturn
>ICQ#7278258
>---------------
uglytim
Don't you know anything. Anyone with a name like Sue or Suzy who posts here,
has to be a complete spunk...
UT
Suzii wrote in message <91810524...@news.hartingdale.com.au>...
Geoff Hansford
Or a bloke :)
>Craig,
>Don't you know anything. Anyone with a name like Sue or Suzy who posts
here,
>has to be a complete spunk...
>
>UT
>
>Suzii wrote in message
uglytim
UT
Geoff Hansford wrote in message <36b93fb0.0@nap-ns1>...
Suzanne Jackson
Craig Turner wrote:
> Obviously, I ride a Suzzi, which I have been know to call Suzi,
>
> Do you call your suzi, 'Suzi'?
I call my Suzuki "Suzi". What else am I going to call it - it's Suzys
Suzi. :)
As for being conceived on one - the back of an EH station wagon is a
much better bet, methinks.
Cheers,
Suzy.
Suzii
My little baby has personalised plates "SUZ11" so she is called
Suzii too.... even though she is a Honda.
Suzii
cbr250r
Craig Turner wrote in message
<36b943cd...@news.ozemail.com.au>...
>On Thu, 4 Feb 1999 16:15:16 +1000, "Suzii" <suz...@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>Obviously, I ride a Suzzi, which I have been know to call Suzi,
>
>Do you call your suzi, 'Suzi'?
>
Sam Michaelson
Craig Turner wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Feb 1999 07:40:47 +1100, Suzanne Jackson
> <su...@suzy.dropbear.id.au> wrote:
>
> >Gads. On my Across, if it doesn't start first press, with
> >no throttle or choke, I'm whinging to anyone who'll listen.
>
> Well that's why the Across, and other electric start 250's suit girls
> so well.
>
> (Opps, lucky the RGV goes faster than an Across, cause I think I'll
> need to put some distance between us now)
Unfortunately for you, there are womenfolk here who ride things that *will* be
able to catch you. Ermintrude, fetch me the speed goggles and the <whap>ing
stick! :-)
Now, off you go with a head start while I sit here and eat a Kitkat, I'm nothing
if not sporting..... where's Jeeves with the bloody stirrup cups?..... and if
we're going to ride to the hunt, is there anyone here who hasn't been formally
blooded yet? Tally ho, pip pip and all that, what!
Great Aunt Samantha (who is not quite old enough to ride to hounds sidesaddle,
thank you very much)
Craig Turner
<sam.mic...@dsto.defence.gov.au.ANTISPAM> wrote:
>Unfortunately for you, there are womenfolk here who ride things that *will* be
>able to catch you. Ermintrude, fetch me the speed goggles and the <whap>ing
>stick! :-)
oops.
>
>Now, off you go with a head start while I sit here and eat a Kitkat, I'm nothing
>if not sporting..... where's Jeeves with the bloody stirrup cups?..... and if
>we're going to ride to the hunt, is there anyone here who hasn't been formally
>blooded yet? Tally ho, pip pip and all that, what!
Should I beep my horn every few minutes just to give scent?
>
>Great Aunt Samantha (who is not quite old enough to ride to hounds sidesaddle,
>thank you very much)
Hmm, lucky because you'd have to reconfigure your rear brake to the
other side.
Sam Michaelson
Craig Turner wrote:
> Sam wrote:
>
> >Unfortunately for you, there are womenfolk here who ride things that *will* be
> >able to catch you. Ermintrude, fetch me the speed goggles and the <whap>ing
> >stick! :-)
>
> oops.
>
> >Now, off you go with a head start while I sit here and eat a Kitkat, I'm nothing
> >if not sporting..... where's Jeeves with the bloody stirrup cups?..... and if
> >we're going to ride to the hunt, is there anyone here who hasn't been formally
> >blooded yet? Tally ho, pip pip and all that, what!
>
> Should I beep my horn every few minutes just to give scent?
No, that's all right - a stroker will give us enough scent to track you without even
needing to use hounds. Just carry on (you can always stop and piddle on the
occasional tuft of grass if you're feeling territorial, but it's up to you).
> >Great Aunt Samantha (who is not quite old enough to ride to hounds sidesaddle,
> >thank you very much)
>
> Hmm, lucky because you'd have to reconfigure your rear brake to the
> other side.
Rear brake? Rear brake? Ha! You youngsters don't know how easy you have it, in my
day, we didn't have rear brakes, you just reached back with your hacking cane and
pulled one of the horse's legs out from under it.....
Great Aunt Samantha