Manslaughter or Not ?
Phil Allison
**See:
" The court was told Mr Cook had been out and returned home to find a group
of intruders inside his home. Police prosecutor Glenn Whittle said a
struggle broke out and the deceased, 34, of Sydney, was shot. He said the *
dead man's * World War II Luger 9mm pistol was used in the shooting.
Mr Cook had it in his hand when he went to his neighbour's home and told
them: "Call police, call ambos, I shot someone", Sergeant Whittle told the
court. He also told his neighbour of the struggle and how he managed to
grab a gun off one intruder and shoot him.
When police arrived, they found a pool of blood outside the house. When they
followed the blood trail up the street, they found the body of a man who'd
bled to death from a gunshot wound to the upper leg. "
If they really put this guy on trial for manslaughter - the media will
have a field day.
... Phil
Sylvia Else
Unfortunately, the law assumes that a person coming across intruders in
his home will remain calm and behave totally rationally, and that if the
death of one of the intruders occurs at the hands of the person, that
must be the result of criminal conduct on the part of the person unless
they were, at that time, under a reasonable apprehension of death or
grevious bodily harm.
It is, of course, more realistic, to take the view that it's open season
on armed home intruders, but the law is seldom realistic in this area.
Getting this past a jury will be a different matter.
At least the magistrate seems to have realised that there is no reason
to think that the accused is a danger to society who must be detained
pending trial.
Sylvia.
Not Telling
Apart from minor matters, like the sub judice rule.
DavidW
> On 13/07/2011 2:20 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
>> **See:
>>
>> http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/man-who-shot-intruder-is-real-victim/story-e6frf7jx-1226093741352
>>
>>
>> " The court was told Mr Cook had been out and returned home to find
>> a group of intruders inside his home. Police prosecutor Glenn
>> Whittle said a struggle broke out and the deceased, 34, of Sydney,
>> was shot. He said the * dead man's * World War II Luger 9mm pistol
>> was used in the shooting. Mr Cook had it in his hand when he went to his
>> neighbour's home and
>> told them: "Call police, call ambos, I shot someone", Sergeant
>> Whittle told the court. He also told his neighbour of the struggle
>> and how he managed to grab a gun off one intruder and shoot him.
>>
>> When police arrived, they found a pool of blood outside the house.
>> When they followed the blood trail up the street, they found the
>> body of a man who'd bled to death from a gunshot wound to the upper
>> leg. " If they really put this guy on trial for manslaughter - the media
>> will have a field day.
>>
>
> Unfortunately, the law assumes that a person coming across intruders
> in his home will remain calm and behave totally rationally, and that
> if the death of one of the intruders occurs at the hands of the
> person, that must be the result of criminal conduct on the part of
> the person unless they were, at that time, under a reasonable
> apprehension of death or grevious bodily harm.
The mere fact that there was a group of them intruding in his home and one of
them had a gun should be enough to be under a reasonable apprehension of death
or grevious bodily harm, I would have thought. Does the law think the group
might say, "Sorry, wrong house" and leave? Does he have to wait to be shot
before taking action? Ridiculous. In such situations prosecutors should, at the
very least, point out what the accused should have done differently, and that's
why he's in hot water.
Phil Allison
"No Intelligence "
> Apart from minor matters, like the sub judice rule.
** That does not prevent public comment on the rights of individuals to
defend themselves and their homes from armed intruders. In any case - it
would only affect comment in the Queensland media.
Going on the information available in the news story - this case will never
go to trial cos no jury ( especially a Qld one) would ever agree the accused
is guilty of a serious crime.
.... Phil
Sylvia Else
Part of his problem probably relates to the fact that he got control of
the gun. Did he still have a reasonable apprehension of death or
grevious bodily harm at that point?
Of course, it's unlikely that events unfolded in slow motion, giving the
accused time to reflect on how his situation may have changed. But the
law and the police may take a different view.
My expectation at the moment is that this will proceed to trial, and
he'll be acquitted, with the case being yet another example of how the
authorities waste public money on prosecutions that may have some
substance in law, but have little chance of getting a jury on side.
Sylvia.
DavidW
Maybe I should begin to review my opinion of trial by jury.
Phil Allison
"Sylvia Else"
>
> Part of his problem probably relates to the fact that he got control of
> the gun. Did he still have a reasonable apprehension of death or grevious
> bodily harm at that point?
** Yep.
Because the person he got it from would very much like it back.
Once you have gained possession of a loaded weapon in the circumstances as
described - you must be prepared to use it.
The other party might need a demo to convince them to give up the attempt to
re-possess it - especially when they outnumber you and a struggle is
going on.
Firing one shot, down low seems quite cool headed to me.
As do all the subsequent actions of the accused described in the story.
The media will love this one.
.... Phil
Phil Allison
"DavidW"
>
> Maybe I should begin to review my opinion of trial by jury.
** Dave,
the one thing that you can generally trust a jury to AGREE, given all the
rules and protective measures the law requires to be followed before they
are allowed make their fateful decision - is that common sense will
prevail.
The SAME thing you can NEVER trust lawyers or judges to come up with.
It's not in the nature of the legal animal to possess any.
.... Phil
Not Telling
The actual circumstances are of no importance. just the information
provided in one media report.
From the Murdoch press!
Phil Allison
> The actual circumstances are of no importance.
** Says it all - really.
Not Telling
It certainly does, Ollie.
Peter Jason
wrote:
When I approached the police in the past over a burglary they hinted
it was MY fault for not properly securing the premises.
Now I have the place caged with bars on the windows and solid steel
doors all around. Being aware of these things I notice many others
have done the same. I have installed thick bronze flyscreens as
well.
Epsilon
:: On Wed, 13 Jul 2011 14:20:01 +1000, "Phil Allison"
That's an inevitable consequence of insisting upon living with the
underclass.
Phil Allison
"Peter Jason"
"Phil Allison"
>
>>**See:
>>
>>http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/man-who-shot-intruder-is-real-victim/story-e6frf7jx-1226093741352
>>
>>
>>" The court was told Mr Cook had been out and returned home to find a
>>group
>>of intruders inside his home. Police prosecutor Glenn Whittle said a
>>struggle broke out and the deceased, 34, of Sydney, was shot. He said the
>>*
>>dead man's * World War II Luger 9mm pistol was used in the shooting.
>>Mr Cook had it in his hand when he went to his neighbour's home and told
>>them: "Call police, call ambos, I shot someone", Sergeant Whittle told the
>>court. He also told his neighbour of the struggle and how he managed to
>>grab a gun off one intruder and shoot him.
>>
>>When police arrived, they found a pool of blood outside the house. When
>>they
>>followed the blood trail up the street, they found the body of a man who'd
>>bled to death from a gunshot wound to the upper leg. "
>>
>>If they really put this guy on trial for manslaughter - the media will
>>have a field day.
>
>
> it was MY fault for not properly securing the premises.
** They also say that kinda shit to teenage girls who have been raped too.
But they don't say word to banks and TABs that get robbed constantly.
Funny about that ...
> Now I have the place caged with bars on the windows and solid steel
> doors all around. Being aware of these things I notice many others
> have done the same. I have installed thick bronze flyscreens as
> well.
** Keeps out the killer flies.
.... Phil
CrazyJeff
>
> Part of his problem probably relates to the fact that he got control of
> the gun. Did he still have a reasonable apprehension of death or
> grevious bodily harm at that point?
>
> Of course, it's unlikely that events unfolded in slow motion, giving the
> accused time to reflect on how his situation may have changed. But the
> law and the police may take a different view.
>
> My expectation at the moment is that this will proceed to trial, and
> he'll be acquitted, with the case being yet another example of how the
> authorities waste public money on prosecutions that may have some
> substance in law, but have little chance of getting a jury on side.
>
Why stop the case from going to trial when there are lawyers' pockets
to line?
Peter Jason
wrote:
Curious. There are many nests of lawyers in the vicinity.
Epsilon
:: On Wed, 13 Jul 2011 17:42:11 +1000, "Epsilon" <n...@this.address.com>
Criminal lawyers, no doubt.
Peter Jason
wrote:
Of course; aren't they all&
Sylvia Else
>
> Curious. There are many nests of lawyers in the vicinity.
You have to go where the work is.
Sylvia.