Copyright
Bradfield
Eg. If I enter into an agreement with company XYZ to use a software product
for which I pay a one off $1000 fee, what happens if Microsoft buys the
rights to that product? Could Microsoft start charging me $1000 a year for
using it?
Rod Speed
> What is the status of licences to use software that has changed owners?
There is no 'license' whatever the floggers of the software claim.
The new owner is welcome to use the software.
The previous owner is not legally allowed to keep using the software.
> Eg. If I enter into an agreement with company XYZ to use a software product for which I pay a one off $1000 fee,
Hardly anyone does that. They just buy a retail product.
> what happens if Microsoft buys the rights to that product? Could Microsoft start charging me $1000 a year for using
> it?
Not legally, no. Your agreement was not with Microsoft.
The Raven
news:hl02im$hs8$1...@news.albasani.net...
Take a look at the license, most have novation clauses. The license may
change ownership but the basics of it won't change unles you agree to it.
The Raven
news:hl053l$lct$1...@news.albasani.net...
> Bradfield wrote:
>
>> What is the status of licences to use software that has changed owners?
End users generally aren't permitted to sell their license, however; if it's
a takeover/merger then most licensors accept that.
> There is no 'license' whatever the floggers of the software claim.
In as much as you can't onsell, sub-license, or otherwise resell the
product.
>
> The new owner is welcome to use the software.
>
> The previous owner is not legally allowed to keep using the software.
You need to review the original license. If transfer is permitted then it's
obviously a case of the old owner no longer having the right to use it.
>
>> Eg. If I enter into an agreement with company XYZ to use a software
>> product for which I pay a one off $1000 fee,
>
> Hardly anyone does that. They just buy a retail product.
I don't think he's talking about Roddles buying a game from EB.
>
>> what happens if Microsoft buys the rights to that product? Could
>> Microsoft start charging me $1000 a year for using it?
>
> Not legally, no. Your agreement was not with Microsoft.
They can purchase the rights of the original licensor, happens all the time.
What they can't do is change the terms of the license without you agreeing.
So, Rod is right they can't start charging you fees.
As for Microsoft agreements, you'll find that most of them are machine
dependant.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> Bradfield wrote
>>> What is the status of licences to use software that has changed owners?
> End users generally aren't permitted to sell their license,
Wrong, legally.
If you bought the software at retail, there in no 'license', you
own what you have bought and can sell it to anyone you like.
> however; if it's a takeover/merger then most licensors accept that.
Doesnt matter what they 'accept', legally. They get to like it or lump it.
>> There is no 'license' whatever the floggers of the software claim.
> In as much as you can't onsell, sub-license, or otherwise resell the product.
Yes you can under australian law when you bought software sold at retail.
>> The new owner is welcome to use the software.
>> The previous owner is not legally allowed to keep using the software.
> You need to review the original license.
There is no 'license' with software you bought at retail.
> If transfer is permitted then it's obviously a case of the old owner no longer having the right to use it.
The purported 'license' is completely irrelevant to your legal rights.
That is true in spades of other copyrighted material like a book etc.
>>> Eg. If I enter into an agreement with company XYZ to use a software product for which I pay a one off $1000 fee,
>> Hardly anyone does that. They just buy a retail product.
> I don't think he's talking about Roddles buying a game from EB.
It isnt at all clear what he is actually talking about, he keeps changing the detail.
>>> what happens if Microsoft buys the rights to that product? Could Microsoft start charging me $1000 a year for using
>>> it?
>> Not legally, no. Your agreement was not with Microsoft.
> They can purchase the rights of the original licensor,
You havent established with software sold at retail that there is any licensor.
> happens all the time.
MUCH more often its just bought at retail and you can do anything you like with
that, just like you can with any other copyrighted material like a book or DVD etc.
> What they can't do is change the terms of the license without you agreeing.
You havent established that there is any license at all.
> So, Rod is right they can't start charging you fees.
> As for Microsoft agreements, you'll find that most of them are machine dependant.
What Microsoft claims is an entirely separate matter to australian law.
The Raven
> The Raven wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Bradfield wrote
>
>>>> What is the status of licences to use software that has changed owners?
>
>> End users generally aren't permitted to sell their license,
>
> Wrong, legally.
Not wrong, I could provide many signed agreements from and with the
Commonwealth which limits on-selling.
>
> If you bought the software at retail, there in no 'license', you
> own what you have bought and can sell it to anyone you like.
>
You've bought the right to run the product, rarely do you own the actual
product.
>> however; if it's a takeover/merger then most licensors accept that.
>
> Doesnt matter what they 'accept', legally. They get to like it or lump it.
Sorry Rod, but you're wrong. For the most part, you just can't resell your
license to use a software product.
>
>>> There is no 'license' whatever the floggers of the software claim.
Then please explain why the Commonwealth regularly has software license
agreements both for their own software and those that they have purchased
commerically?
>
>> In as much as you can't onsell, sub-license, or otherwise resell the
>> product.
>
> Yes you can under australian law when you bought software sold at retail.
Retail store bought product may allow that but, it doesn't apply to all
software.
>
>>> The new owner is welcome to use the software.
>
>>> The previous owner is not legally allowed to keep using the software.
>
>> You need to review the original license.
>
> There is no 'license' with software you bought at retail.
I'm not sure if the original poster indicated whether he was talking about
basic retail software or business type applications (which aren't sold in a
retail environment. Funny how Microsoft still have licenses attached to
their retail products.
>
>> If transfer is permitted then it's obviously a case of the old owner no
>> longer having the right to use it.
>
> The purported 'license' is completely irrelevant to your legal rights.
It's only irrelevant when it tries to get around your legal rights. If the
license is otherwise legal, then it's absolutely relevant.
>
> That is true in spades of other copyrighted material like a book etc.
>
>>>> Eg. If I enter into an agreement with company XYZ to use a software
>>>> product for which I pay a one off $1000 fee,
>
>>> Hardly anyone does that. They just buy a retail product.
>
>> I don't think he's talking about Roddles buying a game from EB.
>
> It isnt at all clear what he is actually talking about, he keeps changing
> the detail.
True.
>
>>>> what happens if Microsoft buys the rights to that product? Could
>>>> Microsoft start charging me $1000 a year for using it?
>
>>> Not legally, no. Your agreement was not with Microsoft.
>
>> They can purchase the rights of the original licensor,
>
> You havent established with software sold at retail that there is any
> licensor.
We need to establish if the original poster is talking retail or not. By his
descriptions I take it he's not talking retail as few retail products charge
periodic fees (presumably for maintenance/support).
>
>> happens all the time.
>
> MUCH more often its just bought at retail and you can do anything you like
> with
> that, just like you can with any other copyrighted material like a book or
> DVD etc.
>
>> What they can't do is change the terms of the license without you
>> agreeing.
>
> You havent established that there is any license at all.
You haven't established he's talking retail either. However, some products
are sold with licenses agreements ranging from basic click throughs to full
blown signed/witnessed agreements (which are recognised by the
Commonwealth).
>
>> So, Rod is right they can't start charging you fees.
>
>> As for Microsoft agreements, you'll find that most of them are machine
>> dependant.
>
> What Microsoft claims is an entirely separate matter to australian law.
Without looking, I'm sure Microsoft agreements take a similar approach as
others. I can't recall the exact term for it but most agreements recognise
that different locations have different laws. Clauses are usually included
that allow for non-legal clauses (for whatever region) to be automatically
excluded from the raw license, without invalidating the rest of the license
..
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> The Raven wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Bradfield wrote
>>>>> What is the status of licences to use software that has changed owners?
>>> End users generally aren't permitted to sell their license,
>> Wrong, legally.
> Not wrong,
Fraid so.
> I could provide many signed agreements from and with the Commonwealth which limits on-selling.
You aint established that there is any signed agreement what so ever.
>> If you bought the software at retail, there in no 'license', you
>> own what you have bought and can sell it to anyone you like.
> You've bought the right to run the product, rarely do you own the actual product.
You are legally entitled to sell the right to run the product to anyone you like.
>>> however; if it's a takeover/merger then most licensors accept that.
>> Doesnt matter what they 'accept', legally. They get to like it or lump it.
> Sorry Rod, but you're wrong.
Nope.
> For the most part, you just can't resell your license to use a software product.
You have not established that there is any license whatever with software bought at retail.
>>>> There is no 'license' whatever the floggers of the software claim.
> Then please explain why the Commonwealth regularly has software license agreements both for their own software and
> those that they have purchased commerically?
Separate matter entirely to software bought at retail with no 'agreement' what so ever.
>>> In as much as you can't onsell, sub-license, or otherwise resell the product.
>> Yes you can under australian law when you bought software sold at retail.
> Retail store bought product may allow that but,
Australian law always allows that when there is no agreement what so ever.
> it doesn't apply to all software.
It does apply to all software where there is no 'agreement'
>>>> The new owner is welcome to use the software.
>>>> The previous owner is not legally allowed to keep using the software.
>>> You need to review the original license.
>> There is no 'license' with software you bought at retail.
> I'm not sure if the original poster indicated whether he was talking about basic retail software or business type
> applications (which aren't sold in a retail environment.
There is fuck all of that sold for a $1K one off fee, so effectively he did.
> Funny how Microsoft still have licenses attached to their retail products.
Pity that says very unambiguously that local law overrides anything claimed in it.
>>> If transfer is permitted then it's obviously a case of the old owner no longer having the right to use it.
>> The purported 'license' is completely irrelevant to your legal rights.
> It's only irrelevant when it tries to get around your legal rights.
Wrong again.
> If the license is otherwise legal, then it's absolutely relevant.
Not when there is no 'agreement' it isnt.
>> That is true in spades of other copyrighted material like a book etc.
>>>>> Eg. If I enter into an agreement with company XYZ to use a
>>>>> software product for which I pay a one off $1000 fee,
>>>> Hardly anyone does that. They just buy a retail product.
>>> I don't think he's talking about Roddles buying a game from EB.
>> It isnt at all clear what he is actually talking about, he keeps changing the detail.
> True.
>>>>> what happens if Microsoft buys the rights to that product? Could Microsoft start charging me $1000 a year for
>>>>> using it?
>>>> Not legally, no. Your agreement was not with Microsoft.
>>> They can purchase the rights of the original licensor,
>> You havent established with software sold at retail that there is any licensor.
> We need to establish if the original poster is talking retail or not.
He doesnt even appear to be clear himself exactly what he is talking about.
> By his descriptions I take it he's not talking retail as few retail products charge periodic fees
There was no periodic fee in his original, it involved ONLY a one off fee.
> (presumably for maintenance/support).
Stupid presumption.
>>> happens all the time.
>> MUCH more often its just bought at retail and you can do anything you like with
>> that, just like you can with any other copyrighted material like a book or DVD etc.
>>> What they can't do is change the terms of the license without you agreeing.
>> You havent established that there is any license at all.
> You haven't established he's talking retail either.
Yes, but a one off charge of $1K is very unlikely indeed to be anything else.
> However, some products are sold with licenses agreements ranging from basic click throughs
That is not legally an agreement, whatever they claim.
> to full blown signed/witnessed agreements (which are recognised by the Commonwealth).
You aint established that there is anything like that with something with a single $1K cost.
>>> So, Rod is right they can't start charging you fees.
>>> As for Microsoft agreements, you'll find that most of them are machine dependant.
>> What Microsoft claims is an entirely separate matter to australian law.
> Without looking, I'm sure Microsoft agreements take a similar approach as others.
It also says very explicitly indeed that local law overrides anything in it.
> I can't recall the exact term for it but most agreements recognise that different locations have different laws.
And Microsoft's says very explicitly that local law overrides anything in it.
> Clauses are usually included that allow for non-legal clauses (for whatever region) to be automatically excluded from
> the raw license, without invalidating the rest of the license
You aint established that there is any license what so ever with something sold at retail.
Raymond
I used to work for a newsagency that took a software company Tower systems
international to court because their software and service was crap. It was
actually brought by the previous owner of the newsagency but our lawyer
explained to us that when we purchased the software we gained the right to
sue to them.
We won and it costed tower systems over $25,000 plus our legal fees.
They are still around but with their software, I wonder why?
http://www.towersystems.com.au/