Eurosound speakersand - Have I been ripped off ?
John Martin
I agreed to purchase a pair of these from a guy my wife works with who
asserts himself as a hi-fi expert. With my NAD 3020i they sounded
unpleasantly bright and toppy with almost no midrange or bass, but he
assured me that the problem was with my substandard amp and not the
speakers. I naievely took him at his word, assuming that as we knew a lot of
people in common that he would not give me a bum steer.
After taking the speakers and the amp to a hi-fi dealer in order to find an
amp that could do the speakers justice, and to get an idea of the resale
figure for my NAD, the problem really seemed to be the combination of the
amp and speaker, not an intrinsic problem with the amp at all, as my little
3020i in combination with a pair of $700 Krix speakers reproduced some music
that sounded really, really good to me.
I'm sure there are some purists amongst you that will tell me why I could do
better, but overall I was really happy with the result. In fact the
comparison in the sound quality between the Krix and the Eurosounds with my
NAD was so massive I began to wonder how it was possible that two sets of
supposedly quality speakers could sound so incredibly different.
When I told my wifes colleague that there really didnt seem to be anything
wrong with my amplifier, and that I didnt really think that the speakers
were right for me, he insisted that I compare the result when listening to
them with his Harmon Kardon amplifier. So I lugged the speakers around
there, along with my NAD, and we listened to the two in comparison.
To be fair, they sounded much better with his amplifier (especially with the
loudness button turned on), but still a little bright, not nearly the same
nice warm full sound that I enjoyed with the Krix speakers. Now maybe I'm a
complete philistine and I dont know good hi-fi when I hear it, but I in
comparison I just dont like the Eurosounds.
For whatever reason my wife's colleague refuses to take back the speakers
(I've not paid him any money yet, but I'm a man of my word, so if I tell
someone I'll buy something for a certain amount I'll do it unless they let
me off the hook). He knows I'm really not happy with the deal, but it would
appear that that doesnt really matter as much to him as getting the speakers
out of his house, and will not let me off the hook. I am, I think,
understandably pissed off.
I figure my best option is to sell these supposedly fantastic speakers to
somone who will appreciate them.
My dillemma is that this guy has no interest in helping me sell them (he's
too busy doing stuff with his house until after christmas apparently), and I
cant talk to him rationally because I think he's ripped me off, and I cant
find out ANYTHING about these speakers anywhere on the net or hi-fi
magazines etc.
Wich brings me here.
What I'm hoping is that someone out there would really appreciate these
speakers, and would like to take them off my hands for a good price, or
alternatively perhaps reassure me that I did buy some truly excellent
speakers and that it really would be worth my while buying a whole set of
new equipment to match them or , failing both of these options, perhaps
give me some good solid data that proves that I've been ripped off, which
would also (at least in my mind) relieve me of the obligation of purchasing
a set of speakers that I really dont like the sound of.
For everyone else out there, take this as a warning - Never ever ever buy
anything from a friend/associate without being really sure its absolutely in
YOUR best interest to do so.
Please Help
Regards
John Martin
Trevor Wilson
"John Martin" <john....@runbox.com> wrote in message
news:x6fC9.14608$nK4....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Has anyone ever heard of eurosound speakers before ?
**Not me. Who is the manufacturer/distributor? Can you point us to a web
site address? I sure can't find anything.
You wanna know what I think? I reckon that Eurosound, is just another 'white
van scam' loudspeaker. IOW: The manufacturer uses the lowest cost drivers,
with poorly designed crossovers, in a badly aligned enclosure. They're
probably junk. Any manufacturer worth his salt, has a web address, offers
promotional material and some kind of advertising. Somewhere. Eurosound
seems to keep a remarkably low profile. Invisible, in fact.
>
> I agreed to purchase a pair of these from a guy my wife works with who
> asserts himself as a hi-fi expert. With my NAD 3020i they sounded
> unpleasantly bright and toppy with almost no midrange or bass, but he
> assured me that the problem was with my substandard amp and not the
> speakers. I naievely took him at his word, assuming that as we knew a lot
of
> people in common that he would not give me a bum steer.
**Few NAD amps are "substandard". The 3020i is certainly an adequate
product.
>
> After taking the speakers and the amp to a hi-fi dealer in order to find
an
> amp that could do the speakers justice, and to get an idea of the resale
> figure for my NAD, the problem really seemed to be the combination of the
> amp and speaker, not an intrinsic problem with the amp at all, as my
little
> 3020i in combination with a pair of $700 Krix speakers reproduced some
music
> that sounded really, really good to me.
**To be expected. The Krix and the NAD are excellent products.
>
> I'm sure there are some purists amongst you that will tell me why I could
do
> better, but overall I was really happy with the result. In fact the
> comparison in the sound quality between the Krix and the Eurosounds with
my
> NAD was so massive I began to wonder how it was possible that two sets of
> supposedly quality speakers could sound so incredibly different.
**We can all argue, long and hard, about the various qualities of different
speakers. Some may like Krix, some may not. No one, however, would ever
argue that Krix build a quality product, using quality drivers, a properly
designed crossover in a properly aligned enclosure. Krix have an impressive
array of test equipment and qualified staff, to back their products.
Eurosound may be assembled by a guy who builds kitchen cabinets for his real
job. Who knows? Certainly not me. I know nothing about Eurosound.
>
> When I told my wifes colleague that there really didnt seem to be anything
> wrong with my amplifier, and that I didnt really think that the speakers
> were right for me, he insisted that I compare the result when listening to
> them with his Harmon Kardon amplifier. So I lugged the speakers around
> there, along with my NAD, and we listened to the two in comparison.
>
> To be fair, they sounded much better with his amplifier (especially with
the
> loudness button turned on), but still a little bright, not nearly the same
> nice warm full sound that I enjoyed with the Krix speakers. Now maybe I'm
a
> complete philistine and I dont know good hi-fi when I hear it, but I in
> comparison I just dont like the Eurosounds.
**Fair enough. Don't buy them.
>
> For whatever reason my wife's colleague refuses to take back the speakers
> (I've not paid him any money yet, but I'm a man of my word, so if I tell
> someone I'll buy something for a certain amount I'll do it unless they let
> me off the hook). He knows I'm really not happy with the deal, but it
would
> appear that that doesnt really matter as much to him as getting the
speakers
> out of his house, and will not let me off the hook. I am, I think,
> understandably pissed off.
**A trifle unfair, if you ask me. Any dealer, or speaker manufacturer, who
has faith in their product, will allow either a full demonstration (such as
you received with the Krix) of the product, or a money back guarantee (such
as offered by VAF) if not satisfied. You received none of this. Eurosound
and your wife's colleague deserve condemnation for thier attitude. BTW: Wat
does your wife's colleague do for a living? Deliver speakers out of a white
van, perchance? IF so, don't trust him! He is the lowest form of human life.
>
> I figure my best option is to sell these supposedly fantastic speakers to
> somone who will appreciate them.
**Good luck. Unless you are a bigger sleazebag than the person who conned
you with them, you have Buckley's chances of selling them.
>
> My dillemma is that this guy has no interest in helping me sell them (he's
> too busy doing stuff with his house until after christmas apparently), and
I
> cant talk to him rationally because I think he's ripped me off, and I cant
> find out ANYTHING about these speakers anywhere on the net or hi-fi
> magazines etc.
**Not can I. They really do sound like a 'house' brand of speaker to me.
Built by a kitchen cabinet maker (rather than a propper speaker
manufacturer), in his spare time. They're probably nicely finished (in that
kitchen cabinet kinda way), but use poor quality components and without any
regard to good design.
>
> Wich brings me here.
>
> What I'm hoping is that someone out there would really appreciate these
> speakers, and would like to take them off my hands for a good price, or
> alternatively perhaps reassure me that I did buy some truly excellent
> speakers and that it really would be worth my while buying a whole set of
> new equipment to match them or , failing both of these options, perhaps
> give me some good solid data that proves that I've been ripped off, which
> would also (at least in my mind) relieve me of the obligation of
purchasing
> a set of speakers that I really dont like the sound of.
>
> For everyone else out there, take this as a warning - Never ever ever buy
> anything from a friend/associate without being really sure its absolutely
in
> YOUR best interest to do so.
**Thank you for the warning, but most in this NG are well aware of such
shonky practices.
Let us know what your wife's colleague does for a living. Is there any
literature inside the packing boxes, which tell you who manufactured the
products? 'Phone up the manufacturer and ask how much they retail for. If
you paid close to retail, then your wife's colleague was probably making
some profit out of your inexperience. That will let us know what is
happening here. Personally, I would advise against paying for the things.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Dale
i would suggest (as you seem to be new here) to listen to trevor's
information. he is one the more experienced tech's on this ng.
personally i would not pay a damm thing. i dont like people wasting my time
deliberately for personal gain or unconsciously.
when you say the sounded good on his HK amp with the loudness turned up,
that ought to be enough to tell you he knows very little about good taste,
or good quality. this man is definately ripping you off (IMO) either on
purpose or because he really thinks he knows about hifi and doesnt. if you
decide to continue to support his delusions (by buying the speakers) then
that is your own choice.
a real friend would tell him to forget it and not pay him.
dale
"Trevor Wilson" <tre...@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:3dd986af$0$13151$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
redbears
Were you refering to the Krix Equinox book shelf speakers?? They are
a good little unit.
The last paragraph sums it up perfectly.
As your friend/associate is so keen to not take them back, that should
add a little weight to your feeling of being ripped off (if you pay
the asking price).
Good luck and give them back, after all what do you owe this guy?
rb
"John Martin" <john....@runbox.com> wrote in message news:<x6fC9.14608$nK4....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
Phil Abel
"John Martin" <john....@runbox.com> wrote in message
news:x6fC9.14608$nK4....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> (I've not paid him any money yet,
Well it seems to me you hold all the aces here John. You've got the speakers
and the cash. He seems unwilling to show you any goodwill by taking back
these crappy boxes that your obviously unhappy with, so why should you fork
out your hard earned just to please him. Don't let these clowns get the best
of you mate, tell him to come and pick up his garbage and just refuse to pay
him.
Cheers Phil
Mal P
It is likely that your wife's colleague has been ripped off himself, i.e. he
purchased the speakers off the back of some fellow in a white man saying "he
dude, want some great speakers!!!" etc.
I must admit that your intention to purchase the speakers despite the fact
that you are very unhappy with them puts me ill at ease. It may be possible
that it is your sense of common decency that your wife's colleague is
manipulating to off-load a pair of inferior speakers. That in itself is
enough to warrant you not buying the speakers. But then, speaking of common
decency, if your wife's colleague knows you to be unhappy with the speakers,
then he should take them back... it is not on your part to satisfy him in
anyway.
Tell this fellow that you will not be paying for the speakers, and that you
are more than happy to drop them back. If he doesn't accept, well, tough.
Don't buy something you don't want to.
Sincerely,
Mal
"John Martin" <john....@runbox.com> wrote in message
news:x6fC9.14608$nK4....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Southern Flyer
>
> For whatever reason my wife's colleague refuses to take back the speakers
> (I've not paid him any money yet, but I'm a man of my word, so if I tell
> someone I'll buy something for a certain amount I'll do it unless they let
> me off the hook). He knows I'm really not happy with the deal, but it would
> appear that that doesnt really matter as much to him as getting the speakers
> out of his house, and will not let me off the hook. I am, I think,
> understandably pissed off.
Why should you be a person of word dealing with a rip-off artist, or so it
seems from the brief evidence presented. If you cannot find a reference on the
web searching on the name what would you think? Search on "quality loudspeakers"
and you will find a lot of obscure names - but not eurosound - nor do you searching for
"eurosound loudspeakers"... there do appear to be a number of electronics merchants
in Europe with that trade name, but none appears to offer that name on speakers.
Tell him to f*ck off, stop trying to pretend he is a mate to you or your wife,
recognize it looks and sounds like you have been scammed, and give them back
and if he will not take them in his hand, send him a letter telling him they are
safe and where/when he can pick them up. If you did not tell anyone else you
bought them, deny you ever agreed.
If he wants to sue let him. If he goes that route he pays his legal expenses and
you can roll over and pay if you want, or if he is such a b*st*rd you can counter sue
him for misrepresentation.
Sounds like he is a real estate agent during the day and knows how to intimidate you.
analitik
> (I've not paid him any money yet, but I'm a man of my word, so if I tell
in his house. You haven't done anything wrong.
Richard Freeman
"analitik" <anal...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5586e3e7.0211...@posting.google.com...
Problem with this idea is the speakers will then 'disappear and your wife's
colleague will claim you never returned them you will need evidence to show
that A) you returned them and that B) he was home at the time and knew you
had returned the speakers and had every chance to take the speakers inside
before they 'disappeared'
As for everyone else saying do not pay for or buy these speakers if they are
not worth the asking price .... I agree if you do not like the speakers you
are under no obligation to buy them
Regards
Richard Freeman
John Martin
I've done a little more investigation since then and it would appear that he
purchased the speakers from his cousin, and he is trying to find out from
him which store they came from. I suspect that it was the "big white van"
store if only for the following reasons.
1. The actual speakers themselves have no brand names on them at all, not
even a model number to be seen
2. The solder joins are a little messy, with flux stains, and look to be a
little dry - personally I think I could have done a better job
3. One speaker internally uses black and red wires, the others use brown and
brown with a white stripe. Now this is hardly a cardinal sin, but it doesnt
inspire me with a feeling of consistent quality either
4. What I think are the crossovers appear to be glued into a place that
makes them completely unservicable
Having said all of that the actual enclosures themselves seem to be quite
solid and well made, the only thing I'm a little concerned about is the tube
of PVC piping that projects internally into the enclosure from a hole at the
back immediately behind the tweeter. Now PVC might be the perfect thing for
this, I'm certainly no speaker designer, and I have no idea what purpose it
serves, nonetheless it screams "kit speaker" at me.
Now this _might_ not be such a bad thing, for all I know the speakers could
have been put together by audio fanatic with the highest quality components
and they really are some amazing superbargain.
The odd thing is that this colleague of my wife (who are both social workers
for those of you who are interested), thinks that these speakers sounded
better than a pair of Tannoy studio monitors he used to own previously. Now
this means that the following possibilities are true
1. They really are as good as he says they are, and that given the right amp
they will sound better than anything I could buy with the same money -
somehow I dont think so.
2. He got burned and has been looking for a sucker to offload these speakers
to for some time - maybe, but I really dont think he's quite that
calculating
3. He thinks he's an expert but really has no idea at all, and is giving me
a bum steer from complete ignorance, and that the only reason he didnt know
the speakers were crap is that their deficiencies were masked by what
appears to be a very good amplifier.
I've told the guy that I'll pay him when I can sell the speakers, in the
mean time it will give me some time to do some proper searching for some
decent audio equipment, who knows maybe I'll trade in my NAD for a 2nd hand
HK amplifier.
I'll start another thread full of newbie questions after I've had a chance
to read what has already been posted about the pros and cons of various
amplifiers
Once again, thanks for all your help.
Regards
John
"Dale" <daler...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3dd9b9cc$0$18875$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Colin 't Hart
> mean time it will give me some time to do some proper searching for some
> decent audio equipment, who knows maybe I'll trade in my NAD for a 2nd
hand
> HK amplifier.
I'd keep the NAD. The 3020 is a reasonable little amp -- and a bit of a
classic.
Cheers,
Colin
John Martin
floorstanding units that cost about twice as much and was sorely tempted to
buy those. It appeared that they had the same actual speakers (the things
that actually make the sounds as opposed the the whole ensemble including
the cabinet). The difference in the midrange and the bass was noticable,
though I'm not 100% sure that it was worth the extra $800, but my wife loves
the sounds of drums ......
Regards
John
"redbears" <the_re...@mad.scientist.com> wrote in message
news:c8c01a9.02111...@posting.google.com...
Dale
> Firstly, a big set of thanks to all who bothered to reply to my post
>
> I've done a little more investigation since then and it would appear that
he
> purchased the speakers from his cousin, and he is trying to find out from
> him which store they came from. I suspect that it was the "big white van"
> store if only for the following reasons.
##his source sounds suspect and uncertain, upon this he "told" or informed
you, or led you to believe they were reputable. argue this if you like but
from your original post you seemed to of been given the idea they were good.
> 1. The actual speakers themselves have no brand names on them at all, not
> even a model number to be seen
> 2. The solder joins are a little messy, with flux stains, and look to be a
> little dry - personally I think I could have done a better job
> 3. One speaker internally uses black and red wires, the others use brown
and
> brown with a white stripe. Now this is hardly a cardinal sin, but it
doesnt
> inspire me with a feeling of consistent quality either
> 4. What I think are the crossovers appear to be glued into a place that
> makes them completely unservicable
##sounds like crap to me, i'm no expert either but i do know this
description does not match any good quality speakers i have seen, actually
it does not even match entry level speakers i have seen.
> Having said all of that the actual enclosures themselves seem to be quite
> solid and well made, the only thing I'm a little concerned about is the
tube
> of PVC piping that projects internally into the enclosure from a hole at
the
> back immediately behind the tweeter. Now PVC might be the perfect thing
for
> this, I'm certainly no speaker designer, and I have no idea what purpose
it
> serves, nonetheless it screams "kit speaker" at me.
##again, sounds cheap. but not always, pvc is commonly used for this. what
would concern me is that it is placed directly behind the tweeter and leak
mid and upper range frequencies from the port. i dont have as much
experience here as others on this matter however.
> Now this _might_ not be such a bad thing, for all I know the speakers
could
> have been put together by audio fanatic with the highest quality
components
> and they really are some amazing superbargain.
> The odd thing is that this colleague of my wife (who are both social
workers
> for those of you who are interested),
##it is interesting. given how he has manipulated you. this is my area of
expertise. i train therapists in perth and germany, including social
workers, when they want more skills. but it doesnt take a therapist to tell
you that you were had, just read all the posts.
> thinks that these speakers sounded
> better than a pair of Tannoy studio monitors he used to own previously.
> Now this means that the following possibilities are true
> 1. They really are as good as he says they are, and that given the right
amp
> they will sound better than anything I could buy with the same money -
> somehow I dont think so.
##very doubtful
> 2. He got burned and has been looking for a sucker to offload these
> speakers to for some time - maybe, but I really dont think he's quite that
> calculating
##neither do i, but quite calculating enough all the same. keep in mind,
would you manipulate your best friend this way, or even want to see your
best friend put into this situation. give yourself a good shake from the
shoulders:-)
> 3. He thinks he's an expert but really has no idea at all, and is giving
me
> a bum steer from complete ignorance, and that the only reason he didnt
> know the speakers were crap is that their deficiencies were masked by
> what appears to be a very good amplifier.
##if your calling his HK amp with the loudness control on a good amp then i
would suggest you shop around for a couple of months and get some more
experience. i dont mean to be rude but this guy sounds a lot like a young
child of about 12 - 15 and then 17-20 if it is about a car.
> I've told the guy that I'll pay him when I can sell the speakers, in the
> mean time it will give me some time to do some proper searching for some
> decent audio equipment, who knows maybe I'll trade in my NAD for a 2nd >
hand HK amplifier.
##i would give them back and not waste my time doing his job for him. i
would keep the nad too.
> I'll start another thread full of newbie questions after I've had a chance
> to read what has already been posted about the pros and cons of various
> amplifiers
##good idea.
> Once again, thanks for all your help.
##no sweat.
dale