Re: OT:my new recording
Soundhaspriority
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>
> "Soundhaspriority" <now...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:YOadnWJoEJoj2iLV...@giganews.com...
>>
>> "Harry Lavo" <hl...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:T4mdnSQXcI6fLiPV...@comcast.com...
>>>
>>> "Soundhaspriority" <now...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>>> news:N7ednUuMZdx5ACPV...@giganews.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Harry Lavo" <hl...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:u_WdneOtJfCSFiPV...@comcast.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Soundhaspriority" <now...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:3fqdnZoCjYu1YSDV...@giganews.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Harry Lavo" <hl...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:N7idnW8xYZQ7HyDV...@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Jenn" <jennco...@mac.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:jennconducts-9F13...@news.la.sbcglobal.net...
>>>>>>>> In article <n6udnTV_KbKD2iDV...@westnet.com.au>,
>>>>>>>> "TT" <TTence...@westnet.com.au> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Jenn" <jennco...@mac.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:jennconducts-9EA2...@news.la.sbcglobal.net...
>>>>>>>>>> Here is a link to a new recording of me. It's my arrangement of
>>>>>>>>>> Waltzing Matilda. I think that my recording technique is getting
>>>>>>>>>> better. I sent it to my recording arts faculty, who sent it back
>>>>>>>>>> to me
>>>>>>>>>> sounding better. I have no idea, yet, what he did. Anyway, I
>>>>>>>>>> hope that
>>>>>>>>>> you enjoy.
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=2ade5a13adf01c8cd2db6fb9a8902bda
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have now had a good listen to it and on decent full range
>>>>>>>>> speakers and the
>>>>>>>>> brightness that may have been detected is gone. The guitar has a
>>>>>>>>> very deep,
>>>>>>>>> mellow timbre although on some of the high notes the "twang" seems
>>>>>>>>> to be a
>>>>>>>>> little intrusive but without first hand knowledge of the instrument
>>>>>>>>> I can't
>>>>>>>>> say if it is accurate or not. I wouldn't want to change it though
>>>>>>>>> as it
>>>>>>>>> does sound natural.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now my only real criticism is that IMHO the sound stage is too wide
>>>>>>>>> for a
>>>>>>>>> solo guitar and it is somewhat diffuse sounding. BTW My speakers
>>>>>>>>> are 3.5m
>>>>>>>>> apart and I am used to rock solid stereo images in between the
>>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thankyou for the opportunity to listen to it and yes I did enjoy
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> rendition immensely and please keep them coming?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> IMO this is not OT but well and truly on Topic. It's about time
>>>>>>>>> some actual
>>>>>>>>> audio was discussed here ;-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My $0.02 TT ;-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks for the listen, the kind words, and the opinion, particularly
>>>>>>>> IRT
>>>>>>>> soundstage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thats one of the things that Blumlein X-Y miking will fix, almost
>>>>>>> automatically. Instead you'll get a "centered" quality that I
>>>>>>> described as "rounded"...an almost palpable presence. And when you
>>>>>>> get that, whatever string noise their is seems to be "of one piece"
>>>>>>> with the remainder of the sound.
>>>>>> I'll just mention that I've tried crossed figure 8's twice, the
>>>>>> classical Blumlein technique, but I have not gotten the spoken-of
>>>>>> magic. The tale of Blumlein seems to be that, on occasion, with just
>>>>>> the right room acoustics, miracles do occur. But it's harder to get
>>>>>> right than other techniques, hence the popularity of ORTF and similar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob Morein
>>>>>> (310) 237-6511
>>>>> .
>>>>> Well, your experience certainly is different than mine, Bob. I tend to
>>>>> favor this for almost any solo acoustic instrument (with strings, or
>>>>> wind) on classical music....guitars, violins, cello, oboes, clarinets,
>>>>> grand piano (come to think of it I've never used it on an upright
>>>>> bass....but then their is much repetoire for same). I've never failed
>>>>> to get at least very good results.
>>>> I used it recently for guitar, with the Blumlein pair about 18" from
>>>> the guitar, Rode NT-2000's in figure-8. And, of course, his results are
>>>> known to be superb. I was attracted to Blumlein because of the known
>>>> translation to a proper stereo image, as opposed to what is obtained by
>>>> a pair of spots, which is clearly synthetic. Later, I learned from Jenn
>>>> that Lawrence Juber uses the assymetric spot miking that is practically
>>>> the standard for guitar.
>>>>
>>>> The result did not please Jenn, but that may be due to the equalization
>>>> I used to make it sound "centric" on the Thiels. I really ought to go
>>>> back and re-equalize it. One of the problems with Blumlein is, of
>>>> course, the extreme proximity effect of figure 8's; the bass goes up and
>>>> down with distance more than with cardioids. At infinity, the bass
>>>> response is theoretically zero. This forces reliance on equalization for
>>>> bass. Since players without studio experience tend to freely shift
>>>> position, this can make equalization difficult.
>>>>
>>>> I also found that, in the two instances of my use of this technique,
>>>> Blumlein tends to remove the "air" from the room. In rec.audio.pro,
>>>> Scott Dorsey remarked the same. This can be very handy. In the case of
>>>> my guitar recording, it produced a background of near silence. However,
>>>> I have not yet had the experience of a room acoustic that actually
>>>> compliments Blumlein. I've heard about it; I've heard of references to
>>>> chamber recordings where this has occurred to a miraculous degree, but I
>>>> haven't had the luck myself.
>>>>
>>> .One thing I forgot to mention, Bob, is that most of my experience (and
>>> my recommendation to Jenn) is based on true conincidence mics. The few
>>> times I have tried it with individual mics I have found it difficult as
>>> hell to get the mics properly aligned on axis...and it doesn't take much
>>> deviance at all to create havoc with the phasing. And I believe it is
>>> this near-perfect phasing of the coincident pair that .makes for much of
>>> the success of the technique in producing "coherence".. Think about
>>> it...if it were just as easy to slap together a pair of mics into a
>>> perfect X-Y pair, there wouldn't be coincidence pairs on the market at
>>> all. And yet there have been for at least the last fifty years.
>>>
>> Harry, we could have a good "r.a.o. argument" about this, except I'd be
>> talking through my hat. I have done a lot of reading about it. But I did a
>> lot of web browsing, and I hereby report, as a rough opinion poll, that
>> Blumlein is not popular, and is regarded as a difficult technique. This
>> makes me only more eager to try it, perhaps when we do some collaborative
>> recording.
>>
>> The field seems dominated by predjudices and preferences rather than hard
>> fact. For example, The New Stereo Soundbook, by Streicher and Everest, is
>> criticized for promotion of the notion that coincident mike placement is
>> the only "correct way." The Blood brothers, who record the Philadelphia
>> Orchestra, seem to disagree, using around 15 spot mikes in addition to
>> some kind of tree over the podium. "The Stereophonic Zoom"
>> http://www.rycote.com/assets/documents/technical_files/The%20Stereophonic%20Z
>> oom.pdf ,
>> covering every microphone type except figure-8, provides tables for every
>> conceivable combination of angle and separation. One recording engineer in
>> London developed a technique for orchestral application using parallel
>> figure-8's on a bar, which he found could be placed well back of the usual
>> position. His orchestral recordings relied entirely on phase, with no
>> amplitude information, which he justified as realistic of the
>> concertgoer's experience.
>>
>> I have never seen JA use coincident capsules for anything. He almost
>> always goes for some approximation to ORTF, with the exception of a recent
>> concert where he used spaced omnis, probably due to sightline
>> considerations.
>>
>> Someone could probably find a way to put two figure-8's on a bar, angle
>> them, and make it work. Perhaps I already have; I really should redo the
>> mix. But the guitarist was not happy with his playing, which takes some of
>> the fun out of it.
>>
>> I have a Studio Projects LSD2, which can be arranged as two bidirectional
>> capsules. I did not consider it for use on this project because the
>> guitarist sings, and the off-axis response of LSD2 is unpleasant with a
>> nearby vocal. The Rode NT-2000's provided almost complete cancellation.
>> Perhaps we'll give the LSD-2 a shot one day with piano.
>
> I'm not looking for an argument, Bob. I just wanted to give Jenn some
> advice, perhaps to talk over with her recording guy at the college to see if
> he had anything similar she might borrow to experiment with. I'm partial to
> ribbons because they probably do the very best job of all in providing
> uniform off-axis response in a figure-of-eight pattern. This as well as the
> coincidence helps the imaging. I'm aware of various mic theories (I
> actually studied and gained a certificate at the Institute of Audio
> Engineering in NYC back in 1970) but my preferences are based on real-world
> experience using mostly ribbon mics.
Well I have lots of experience too, and your "audio engineering" certificate
is bullshit compared with the several degrees I studied for, and almost had.
You're aware that I was cheated out of my degrees by Drexel University,
aren't you? The facts in the case are all over the internet.
You need to learn to respect more advanced learnin that guys like me have.
The audio business suffers from being filled with people that claim they
"have great ears" instead of intelligent and scientific deep thinkers like
me.
Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511