A serious question re VAF speakers
Welly
speakers are. Are there any people on this newsgroup who have
heard/purchased these speakers and found them to be just OK or average, or
even a heap of steaming faeces?
As I said, this is a serious question. I am looking around for new speakers
at the moment and I find hard to believe that nobody seems to have a
negative comment. The only mildly negative comment I have read is that with
some amplifiers (usually Yamaha it seems), the speaker can exhibit some
harshness. I am NOT trying to be funny or stir up an argument. I merely want
to know if anyone disliked these speakers and, if so, why?
Also, of the people who do like them, what sort of gear are using "in front"
of them, i.e. what amps and source components?
MAGIC
why. Their not even time and phase accurate.
--
Regards,
MAGIC
www.holnet.net - The Pursuit of Audio Perfection
"Welly" <wels...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:aX2R7.236522$e5.1...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
MAGIC
better sound.
Do some comparison listening to someone elses VAF's and then have a listen
to some truly great speakers such as Mirage, Vandersteen, Dunlavy or Thiel.
Let your own ears be the judge - not other peoples opinions.
--
Regards,
MAGIC
www.holnet.net - The Pursuit of Audio Perfection
"MAGIC" <ma...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:eH9R7.442547$bY5.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
remarkabel
"MAGIC" <ma...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> Forgot to mention - that I beleive your money can be more wisley spent for
> better sound.
>
> Do some comparison listening to someone elses VAF's and then have a listen
> to some truly great speakers such as Mirage, Vandersteen, Dunlavy or Thiel.
Fair enough but you are comparing them to some VERY excellent speakers.
Mostof them costing considerably more than the VAF's. I assume that you
are comparing the VAF signiature series. To compare the DC range to
these suberb examples then the comparison is hardly fair.
> Let your own ears be the judge - not other peoples opinions.
excellent advice, and the only advice anyone should accept without a
grain of salt. :-)
Cheers,
Mark
Trevor Wilson
> Forgot to mention - that I beleive your money can be more wisley spent for
> better sound.
**What speakers can be purchased for around $1,500.00 per pair, which sound
better than the DC-X?
>
> Do some comparison listening to someone elses VAF's and then have a listen
> to some truly great speakers such as Mirage, Vandersteen, Dunlavy or
Thiel.
> Let your own ears be the judge - not other peoples opinions.
>
**Good advice. To think that ANY of the imported products (for the same
Dollars) can outperform the VAF DC-X, though, is a little naive, IMO. Whilst
the DC-X may not be to everyone's taste, they are undeniably excellent value
for money.
--
Trevor Wilson
http://www.rageaudio.com.au
Crossposting is for the terminally lazy and is very rude.
Please think, before you post.
Philip Vafiadis
I have no issue with your preference or opinion on the sound of VAF
loudspeakers but you claim that our speakers are "not even time and phase
accurate" is misleading and is not correct. For phase measurements on nearly
all of our lodspeakers please refer to our internet site www.vaf.com.au .
Each loudspeaker page has a link to it's specifications and acurate
measurements can be found there.
I am also curious about your wording. You say "not 'even' time...." infering
that good time domain performance is common, which I am dissapointed to say
is not the case....VAF is one of only a handfull of manufacturers worldwide
that excell in this area of performance.
Kind regards
Philip Vafiadis
VAF Research Pty Ltd
www.vaf.com.au
"MAGIC" <ma...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:eH9R7.442547$bY5.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Robby
have a full set & I am playing them through a Marantz SR-18 amp (140W per
channel *5) & I can assure you that the VAFs get a REAL work out.
I intend to replace the DC-Xs with a "Signature Set" when I buy myself a
birthday present in April.
DeORbiT
of big opinions like with no basis in fact to proove their argument.
Anyway to answer your question Welly, I just received my DC-X's yesterday
and even without running them in I am *very* impressed. I've tried quite a
few speakers in various shops and these things are 200% better than anything
i've heard in that price range and up to $2500. (I listened to Jamo, JBL,
Aaron, Krix, A.E, Mordaunt Short .....etc etc)
The first thing i noticed about the X's was that the bass doesn't sound
recessed at all. To my ears they sound wonderfully accurate & musical. If
you put on a tinny CD without bottom end (crappy pop music) then they'll
reproduce no bass if you put on something like say Bjork's Homogenic album
and listen to the first track Hunter , when the bass kicks in it shakes
everything in the room! Wonderful.
They can seem like they've got a little too much treble but i've noticed
that this is because of the mastering/mixing rather than the speakers
themselves.
I'm listening to the X's at the moment. I wouldn't know jack about speaker
tech but I do know that the X's make me feel like sitting down and going
through all my cd's again!! For the first time on my Hi-Fi system every CD
sounds different and differences between recording can be clearly heard. I
feel like I own floor standing versions of my old Alesis Active Monitors!
And to think my X's arne't even run-in yet and will get better!
anyway just my 2 cents.
Shivam.
"Philip Vafiadis" <phi...@vaf.com.au> wrote in message
news:9v3glr$81$1...@pinah.connect.com.au...
DeORbiT
Anyway to answer your question Welly, I just received my DC-X's yesterday
and even without running them in I am *very* impressed. I've tried quite a
few speakers in various shops and these things are 200% better than anything
i've heard in that price range and up to $2500. (I listened to Jamo, JBL,
Aaron, Krix, A.E, Mordaunt Short .....etc etc)
The first thing i noticed about the X's was that the bass doesn't sound
recessed at all. To my ears they sound wonderfully accurate & musical. If
you put on a tinny CD without bottom end (crappy pop music) then they'll
reproduce no bass if you put on something like say Bjork's Homogenic album
and listen to the first track Hunter , when the bass kicks in it shakes
everything in the room! Wonderful.
They can seem like they've got a little too much treble but i've noticed
that this is because of the mastering/mixing rather than the speakers
themselves.
I'm listening to the X's at the moment. I wouldn't know jack about speaker
tech but I do know that the X's make me feel like sitting down and going
through all my cd's again!! For the first time on my Hi-Fi system every CD
sounds different and differences between recording can be clearly heard. I
feel like I own floor standing versions of my old Alesis Active Monitors!
And to think my X's arne't even run-in yet and will get better!
anyway just my 2 cents.
Shivam.
"Philip Vafiadis" <phi...@vaf.com.au> wrote in message
news:9v3glr$81$1...@pinah.connect.com.au...
DeORbiT
Anyway to answer your question Welly, I just received my DC-X's yesterday
and even without running them in I am *very* impressed. I've tried quite a
few speakers in various shops and these things are 200% better than anything
i've heard in that price range and up to $2500. (I listened to Jamo, JBL,
Aaron, Krix, A.E, Mordaunt Short .....etc etc)
The first thing i noticed about the X's was that the bass doesn't sound
recessed at all. To my ears they sound wonderfully accurate & musical. If
you put on a tinny CD without bottom end (crappy pop music) then they'll
reproduce no bass if you put on something like say Bjork's Homogenic album
and listen to the first track Hunter , when the bass kicks in it shakes
everything in the room! Wonderful.
They can seem like they've got a little too much treble but i've noticed
that this is because of the mastering/mixing rather than the speakers
themselves.
I'm listening to the X's at the moment. I wouldn't know jack about speaker
tech but I do know that the X's make me feel like sitting down and going
through all my cd's again!! For the first time on my Hi-Fi system every CD
sounds different and differences between recording can be clearly heard. I
feel like I own floor standing versions of my old Alesis Active Monitors!
And to think my X's arne't even run-in yet and will get better!
anyway just my 2 cents.
DeORbiT
"Philip Vafiadis" <phi...@vaf.com.au> wrote in message
news:9v3glr$81$1...@pinah.connect.com.au...
MAGIC
I may stand corrected - maybe.
I understood that VAF's do NOT use 1st order crossovers (which are required
to obtain true phase accuracy. I would be interested to know what crossover
design you are using if you are obtaining phase accuracy without a 1st order
crossover.
Also, at what distance from the speakers do the frequencies coalesce to
provide true time accuracy? It was my understanding that the drivers are not
arranged in the cabinet for time accuracy?
And yes - good time and phase accuracy is very uncommon - as you point out.
I agree with you here. However, you will find it in the brands I suggested
"Welly" listen to.
You suggest that VAF excell in time and phase performance. In comparison to
what? To other non-phase accurate speakers? Or to brands like those I
suggested.
Thanks for your input. I commend you on your response to my comments. I hope
you understand my reply is purely on a 'want-to-know' basis. I mean no
disresepect to you or VAF. As I said earlier, I simply prefer the sound of
the brands I suggsted.
Take Care,
--
Regards,
MAGIC
www.holnet.net - The Pursuit of Audio Perfection
"Philip Vafiadis" <phi...@vaf.com.au> wrote in message
news:9v3glr$81$1...@pinah.connect.com.au...
Avdoulos
don't really count for much (including magazine opinions). For example, What
Hi-fi? loves KEF Q35.2s but I've read another (?) review that holds they are
only average. You need to hear speakers with your electronics. Anything can
add to the final sound e.g. CD player, amp, interconnects, speaker cable,
etc. I've never heard VAF, so I can't offer an opinion. The real test is
when you bring your speakers home and connect them to other components. If
you are not satisfied, what's VAF's after-sales service like? Ask VAF and
others on this NG!
John
Welly wrote in message ...
Laz
can you please post the prices of the models from the brands below that you
think represent better value for money....
I would be very curious in your feedback and advice.......
I have had various speakers in the past, and i bought set of vaf dcx's after
listening to some...........
I couldn't find other speakers that sounded as good for a similar
price...........
the krix range are quite good though.............
other models may have better presentation, but then they do cost
more.................
depends what you want................
yes, the dcx can be a bit bright with yamaha amps.................
but the room they are in also affects their sound a lot
too..................
regards
laz
"MAGIC" <ma...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:fT9R7.442556$bY5.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
MAGIC
not my intention. You have to remember that this is my opinion (I'm entitled
to it). You should have your own opinion - In many ways yours is more valid
than mine anyway! Since you are the one listening to the speakers, not me.
As I said in my post earlier. Everyone needs to listen for themselves and
form their own conclusions. In my listening experiences I have found that
Mirage, Vandersteen, Thiel and Dunlavy all over superlative loudspeakers
which are exceptional value for money.
VAFS, IMO offer acceptable sound quality - but dont offer me the 'religous'
experience I am looking for in my audio system. Yes, I listen daily to a
pair of Mirage Speakers coting over 8K with components to match - but thats
not the point. In all the manufacturers I have mentioned you can find the
technology from their high end loudspeakers in their lower models
(equivalent in costing to such speakers as VAF). --
Do some listening comparisons, enjoy the process, and remember - "Its all
about the music"
If you interested I am developing a website based on my audio experiences
and with detailed reviews of products I use. Its only a skeleton at the
moment with no content - I hope to have some content ready by Christmas.
www.holnet.net
Regards,
MAGIC
www.holnet.net - The Pursuit of Audio Perfection
"Laz" <larry31...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:vSgR7.90700$li3.6...@ozemail.com.au...
Philip Vafiadis
> I may stand corrected - maybe.
>
> I understood that VAF's do NOT use 1st order crossovers (which are
required
> to obtain true phase accuracy. I would be interested to know what
crossover
> design you are using if you are obtaining phase accuracy without a 1st
order
> crossover.
We use 1st order overall responses and time aligned driver arays in almost
all models. The notion that you put forward that 1st order crossovers "are
required to obtain true phase accuracy" is a falicy. We are in agreement
that 1st order responses and time aligned arays are manditory for good time
domain performance however your focus purely on the response of the
crossover is too limited. The electrical response of the crossover in itself
is irrelavent without regard to the response of the drivers they will
'feed'. What is critical is the acoustic output of the drivers with their
filters in circuit. No driver has a perfect native response and so for truly
accurate performance must be equalised to some extent. What we aim to do is
get acoustic first order acoustic roll offs and we team these with driver
arays that are phisically time aligned. . In the case of the DC-X a great
degree of physical engineering is used to get the fundimentals 'right'. In
our Signature Series we are chasing VERY close response envelopes and
sophisticated crossovers are used as well as all the physical engineering.
> Also, at what distance from the speakers do the frequencies coalesce to
> provide true time accuracy? It was my understanding that the drivers are
not
> arranged in the cabinet for time accuracy?
We optimise most speakers for 3M and aim for good response from about 2M and
over. Time aligned drivers are manditory for good time domain performance
and almost all our speakers are properly time aligned. How did you conclude
that we do not time align drivers???
> And yes - good time and phase accuracy is very uncommon - as you point
out.
> I agree with you here. However, you will find it in the brands I suggested
> "Welly" listen to.
Dunlavy and Theil yes, I am not so sure about the other two brands priority
in acheiving true phase cohearency.
> You suggest that VAF excell in time and phase performance. In comparison
to
> what? To other non-phase accurate speakers? Or to brands like those I
> suggested.
The measured phase performance of our leader models (DC-X, I-93 etc) are as
good as it gets for passive speakers. +/- 5 deg over most of the frequency
range. Dunlavy and Theil are also very good in this regard.
> Thanks for your input. I commend you on your response to my comments. I
hope
> you understand my reply is purely on a 'want-to-know' basis. I mean no
> disresepect to you or VAF. As I said earlier, I simply prefer the sound of
> the brands I suggsted.
Thanks for your feedback. I am curious, which VAF models have you heard and
under what conditions? From your post, I asume your knowledge of the VAF
range is not complete. Have you heard any of our Signature models. As good
as the DC-X is at $1399 ready to assemble, comparing them to best of other
quality speakers costing 5 times as much or more seems a little unrealistic.
If you are ever in Adelaide, we have 4 good soundrooms and I would be please
to offer you an audition of our speakers teamed with a number of different
levels of electronic components.
Andrew
I was able to hear the VAF's (DC-x and DC7's) and wasn't convinced. To me
the x's were too "large" both physically and in their sound, and the 7's did
not seem to have the bass I wanted (I can't use a sub as I am in a flat and
the folks downstairs might get a bit sick of the boom-boom).
In the end it was Richter that suited me...strange that I know as I listed
to loads about the $1500 price tag, VAF's, Kef, Subsonic, B&W and a load of
others around that price.
As the others have said, in the end my ears (and wallet!) made that
choice....you never know 'till you listen.
Enjoy it though...it's really loads of fun.
Cheers,
Andrew
"Welly" <wels...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:aX2R7.236522$e5.1...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
Marty H
I have only listened to VAFs a few times, the DC-Xs twice a the Melb Hifi
show and the I-93s in a demo in Sydney about 18 Months back.Even in the bad
acoustics of the Melb Entertainment Centre the DC-Xs shone, as Trevor W
said, you wont do better for the money. As for the I-93s....WOW, I have
never heard such accuracy in a pair of speakers before, but I have really
sat in front of many >$5K speakers. My criticism of the VAFs, not warm, I
like warm speakers, (coloured some might say) probably due to more years of
mixing live bands and being subjected to 1000s of watts subs systems.I found
the range of Osborn and Ambience nicer and warmer sounding, but at much
larger $$s than the VAFs.
But to sum it up, if your after accuracy and value for money, you just cant
go past VAF
Marty H
"
Damien Smith
> the x's were too "large" both physically and in their sound, and the 7's
did
> not seem to have the bass I wanted (I can't use a sub as I am in a flat
and
> the folks downstairs might get a bit sick of the boom-boom).
>
> In the end it was Richter that suited me...strange that I know as I listed
> to loads about the $1500 price tag, VAF's, Kef, Subsonic, B&W and a load
of
> others around that price.
>
> As the others have said, in the end my ears (and wallet!) made that
> choice....you never know 'till you listen.
>
> Enjoy it though...it's really loads of fun.
You should have bought a Sony mini-system - you would have gotten the
typically boomy, fizzy Richter Jaguar sound and a lot cheaper....
Trevor Wilson
"Marty H" <martyh@"NOSPAM"iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:3c15c...@news.iprimus.com.au...
> Just my 2 cents worth
> I have only listened to VAFs a few times, the DC-Xs twice a the Melb Hifi
> show and the I-93s in a demo in Sydney about 18 Months back.Even in the
bad
> acoustics of the Melb Entertainment Centre the DC-Xs shone, as Trevor W
> said, you wont do better for the money.
**Not entirely true. Though I did word it badly. I would like MAGIC to
provide a list of $1500.00 speakers, which can outperform (or even equal)
the capabilities of the DC-X.
MAGIC
or some of the entry level Mirage, Thiels or Dunlavys for speakers that
outperform the VAF's.
Remember its my opinion. Listen for yourself and make up your own mind.
Happy listening
--
Regards,
MAGIC
www.holnet.net - The Pursuit of Audio Perfection
"Trevor Wilson" <tre...@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:z3lR7.443783$bY5.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Dennistraeger
"accurate" a speaker, the better the experience provided that the source and
amplification is up to the same standards. i.e. if the speaker is fed crap, you
will get even more accurate crap coming out, without any masking or smoothing
provided by a less than accurate speaker.
If however one feeds it a good quality and engineered recording, through
reasonably good matched amplification, the results are always superb and at a
level of experience that far transends the ho hum feelings a smooth compromised
speaker provides.
Just an addendum re time alignment. Most of the speakers in the DCX's price
range(& well above it) seem to make no attempt at physical time alignment. If
the original author of this post had seen and heard a DCX "in the flesh" it's
fairly obvious even looking at it through the grill cloth that the tweeter sits
further back in it's own baffle for time alignment.
Laz
many people here seem to. I have no idea
seen one close up and inspected how the drivers are aligned ?
your opinions are very welcolm here, BUT if you make comments that are
patently wrong if you did some checking this lowers everyone's expectations
of your views being at all intelligently formed by using critical thinking
and comparisons........
if you said " I haven't inspected a set of VAF dcx and i don't think they
are time and phase accurate "
, then that is an opinion that would be more correctly stated.......... "
:-)
Magic, you said "Do some listening comparisons, ...." is an earlier post,
when you said "Personally, I dont like them - but many people here seem to.
I have no idea
why. Their not even time and phase accurate." how had you listened to a
pair to make this opinion ?
also can you tell me of some models of Mirage, Vandersteen, Dunlavy or
Thiel. that are in a price range close to the vaf dcx speakers ?
As i can't remember seeing any in shops i've visited...............
I am not an 'audiophile', but i enjoy listening to 'well reproduced'
music.............
regards
Laz
"MAGIC" <ma...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:LblR7.443813$bY5.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Pauline O'Connor
that's what I was gonna say
MAGIC
=
Regards,
MAGIC
www.holnet.net - The Pursuit of Audio Perfection
"Laz" <larry31...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:lamR7.90915$li3.6...@ozemail.com.au...
TT
anyway. So here goes.
I absolutely, 110%, totally agree that you should buy what you like the
sound of. This is set in stone, period. The problem as I see it is that
the only way for a non-crow eater to listen to any VAFs is to buy them. How
many people out there can really say they have had a good demo on this brand
and compared them to other manufacturers. I know I haven't and probably
never will. I would love to buy Aus made gear but won't without hearing it
first!
I don't want a Leyland P76 in my lounge room. Remember the rave reviews
this got and it even won Wheels magazine's car of the year. So please
don't point me to any magazine reviews where all this supposed testing has
been done for me and now all I have to do is hand over the sheckles. I want
to hear it! So Phillip unless you start handing out return air tickets to
Adelaide I don't know what you going to do. Maybe nominate some test centre
in each capital city or something.
This is a never ending debate on this product, a couple of "die hards" on
each side trying to point score and the masses none the wiser. I personally
would love to know what they sound like. But talk to a lot of people and a
lot will swear by Bose as well and the shops that flog the stuff will say
anything to make a sale.
Just to clarify a couple of points: VAFs are not like P76s or Bose and I am
in no way "knocking" the product just advocating don't believe everything
other people tell you and you should form your own opinion. From VAFs point
of view here is simple equation. [Can't listen to = Won't buy] x
$$$$$$\overseas
The ravings of a non-committed fence sitter who would love to form his own
opinion. (Actually I had an opinion once but my wife told me it was wrong)
My $0.02 TT
PS If Phillip would like to send some demo speakers I will email him my
delivery address ;-))
MAGIC <ma...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:LblR7.443813$bY5.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Trevor Wilson
"MAGIC" <ma...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:LblR7.443813$bY5.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
2CE's
> or some of the entry level Mirage, Thiels or Dunlavys for speakers that
> outperform the VAF's.
**Models and prices, please.
>
> Remember its my opinion. Listen for yourself and make up your own mind.
**Absolutely.
Laz
yes of course you can have an opinion, -we all do.........
such as when you wrote ""Personally, I dont like them ...."
perfectly valid opinion............
however, when you wrote "Their not even time and phase accurate.."
that comes across as a statement of fact, not an opinion............
thats like me saying " brand z speakers delaminate their boxes after 3
years...."
that sounds like a statement of fact, that i have some facts to back
up........
however, if i say' brand z speakers sound to bright to me'
that comes across as an opinion-perfectly valid to have.............
p.s i had a look at your website-your photo looks very pompous-my opinion
;-)
otherwise it looks like a good start..........
also noticed that you work for/at www.rutledge.com.au
they don't sell VAF- I hope that hasn't affected your 'unbiased opinons' ?
regards
Laz
"MAGIC" <ma...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:EJmR7.444831$bY5.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Philip Vafiadis
><snip><
> I absolutely, 110%, totally agree that you should buy what you like the
> sound of. This is set in stone, period.
Is there room for an education? I have seen a cycle of purchases repeated
time and time again.
...Take the comon situation of a first time buyer..... They have a normal
interest in music/movies but are not an enthusiast or expert on sound
reproduction. When they audition equipment they may hear bass and trebble
and say "wow, it has it all". Some time passes and they become aware that
some systems present guitars as sounding like guitars as oposed to just
knowing that it is meant to be a guitar. More time passes and more
observations are made...a soundstage is heard, imaging is recognised,
transpearency etc.
**I absolutly agree that people should not buy what they don't like**, but
at VAF we also try to engage our customers and share our experience.
Understanding why things sound the way they do can help customers make an
informed purchase....and 'at the end of the day', if the 'promise' embodied
by VAF speakers of accuracy isn't delivered or appreciated our money back
guarantee on the DC-Series (our most popular range) is the 'safty net'.
> The problem as I see it is that
> the only way for a non-crow eater to listen to any VAFs is to buy them.
How
> many people out there can really say they have had a good demo on this
brand
> and compared them to other manufacturers. I know I haven't and probably
> never will. I would love to buy Aus made gear but won't without hearing
it
> first!
We are not for everyone. We know it is harder to do business with us but the
benefits are also clear. VAF is possibly the largest producer of quality
speakers in Australia. We are striking a chord with many people and our
**passive** sales approach is the antithises of the normal retail 'noise'.
We do not push our products, we make an intelectual case and if a person is
receptive we can begin a two way dialogue. I am sure many aus.hi-fi folks
can confirm that we like to know more about their preferences, listening
room etc than just their credit card details.
> I don't want a Leyland P76 in my lounge room. Remember the rave reviews
> this got and it even won Wheels magazine's car of the year. So please
> don't point me to any magazine reviews where all this supposed testing has
> been done for me and now all I have to do is hand over the sheckles. I
want
> to hear it! So Phillip unless you start handing out return air tickets to
> Adelaide I don't know what you going to do. Maybe nominate some test
centre
> in each capital city or something.
We don't want to change. We like maintaining a one to one relationship with
every customer, whether thay're a 'Telstra' or an individual. Every 'middle
man' in the process is a 'contamination'...even a well intentioned sales
person is generally not in the position to give specialist technical advice.
With regard to the reveiws, the P76 came and went, VAF came, grew, grew some
more and is still growing...we are standing the test of time. Also many
reveiws are positive 'fluff'...you know the sort that say positive things
but are not specific on anything. VAF spends *NO* money with Sydney Morning
Hearald and almost no money with Rolling Stone but they have used definate
and emphatic terms like "we put our reputation on the line" or simply "
These are the best value speakers on the market." ....all reveiws are not
the same, and I think 10 years of consistent and unusually positive press
should mean something to a reader.
> This is a never ending debate on this product, a couple of "die hards" on
> each side trying to point score and the masses none the wiser. I
personally
> would love to know what they sound like. But talk to a lot of people and
a
> lot will swear by Bose as well and the shops that flog the stuff will say
> anything to make a sale.
>
><snip><
> From VAFs point
> of view here is simple equation. [Can't listen to = Won't buy] x
> $$$$$$\overseas
This is simply not true. We sell many loudspeakers. We also now sell many
associated products like Projectors, Receivers, DVD etc. We do this in a way
that ensures the custommer is getting the most appropriate thing for their
purpose wile saveing them money and making us a reasonable profit.
....here's 'the thing', we like doing a good job, we like all the
extaordinary goodwill that our *MANY* customers show towards us, we like
making a 'living' this way and we have absolutely no problem sleeping at
night....VAF is a nice place to be, just the way it is. (it's Christmas, I'm
feeling warm and fuzzy)
Kind regards
Philip Vafiadis
VAF Research Pty Ltd
www.vaf.com.au
><snip><
Laz
I was careful to visit a couple of people in the past who had bought vaf
speakers ,
plus visit many shops, so i was able to compare
just not always side by side.......
Maybe phil should try and do a demo/trade show in perth/syd/brisb/darwin
he could always advertise the visits ahead of time
so that he could sell some/all of the gear, so as to not have to bring it
all around with them.........
the lack of demos/expos with vaf speakers is a definate negative............
after all if its not in the shops
people do need to listen to them in other places..............
laz
"TT" <swa...@geo.net.au> wrote in message
news:nJmR7.9$JW6...@vicpull1.telstra.net...
Kimbo
MAGIC wrote:
> FFS! Cant a man have an opinion!
>
> =
> Regards,
>
> MAGIC
> www.holnet.net - The Pursuit of Audio Perfection
>
FFS! Can't people have an opinion of an opinion ? !
Kimbo
Kimbo
Andrew wrote:
> OK, I'll bite!
>
> I was able to hear the VAF's (DC-x and DC7's) and wasn't convinced. To me
> the x's were too "large" both physically and in their sound, and the 7's did
> not seem to have the bass I wanted (I can't use a sub as I am in a flat and
> the folks downstairs might get a bit sick of the boom-boom).
>
> In the end it was Richter that suited me...strange that I know as I listed
> to loads about the $1500 price tag, VAF's, Kef, Subsonic, B&W and a load of
> others around that price.
>
> As the others have said, in the end my ears (and wallet!) made that
> choice....you never know 'till you listen.
>
> Enjoy it though...it's really loads of fun.
>
> Cheers,
> Andrew
>
Was in Sydney Hi-Fi (Parramatta) the other day listening to some expensive
Athena and Energy combo's, which were good, (I own a set of old Energy's, love
them). Then I got the guy to switch on the Richters that they had there, they
were FANTASTIC in price/performance in comparism to the Canadians. This was
their budget priced 'Predator' series, the smaller model was especially good.
Very impressed.
Kimbo
Rod
chance while you have all that xmas spirit in you? Wouldn't it be nice
to have one of those VAF xmas competitions - win a DC-X kit just for
saying Merry XMAS Philip :)
Hey how about a xmas sale, does VAF have sales??
Yeah I know, thought I'd try. I have to do something about upgrading
these Aarons someday :(
Miss Purple Haze
news:3c16d8c5...@news.mincom.oz.au...
> Warm and fuzzy eh. Say you aren't throwing away any old DC-x's by any
> chance while you have all that xmas spirit in you? Wouldn't it be nice
> to have one of those VAF xmas competitions - win a DC-X kit just for
> saying Merry XMAS Philip :)
>
> Hey how about a xmas sale, does VAF have sales??
a matched centre now....C'mon Phil, just 1 sale a year, and make it..like
now!!! Please...
I'd like to get the DC-6 without the cabinet because it's cheaper, but have
no idea on what size cabinet they would need....and not quite sure/confident
of my carpentry skills.
Maybe the Male in the house could build it, as he did the assembly of the
7's for me ;)
> Yeah I know, thought I'd try. I have to do something about upgrading
> these Aarons someday :(
>
Trevor Wilson
"Rod" <nos...@work.please> wrote in message
news:3c16d8c5...@news.mincom.oz.au...
>
> these Aarons someday :(
**If you're in Sydney, I can upgrade those Aarons to provide quite
respectable performance, Rod.
Stephen Just
> >
> > Yeah I know, thought I'd try. I have to do something about upgrading
> > these Aarons someday :(
>
> **If you're in Sydney, I can upgrade those Aarons to provide quite
> respectable performance, Rod.
You guys never miss an opportunity do you?
Andrew
I am wounded that my choice offends thee...and I am suddenly unhappy with my
entire life...oh what have I done! I will now go and buy the DCX's, (and
move to a larger house) just so I can gain your approval...
Not.
:)
Andrew
"Damien Smith" <smith...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9v4hrm$cs4cv$1...@ID-110394.news.dfncis.de...
TT
There is always room for education and I am the first to admit I do not know
everything. This was the basis for my post, I do not know what your
speakers sound like. I would like to know as they may be as good as some
say.
You talk of first time buyers and "safety nets" but at 44 years old I have
been playing with this stuff since I was 17 (very, ultra lo-fi then I can
tell you). I have a bit of an idea of what is going on and what I like the
sound of. I cannot see you refunding my money if I bought a set of I93s off
you and assembled them myself. We are talking a large investment here and I
am taking the chance that they will work well in my home. I have said this
here before, I also went out and bought a Betacord because it was
technically superior than VHS and did everything better according to the
reviews.
You do have a lot of happy customers but it can't be hard to produce a
budget price ($1,500 ish) speaker that competes well in this market when you
are automatically 30-40% in front by not having dealer margins. Obviously
this is why you do what you do. As you go up in price generally the %
margin decreases and this is where I am starting to have a look at.
No I do not believe in the theory that if the cheaper models are OK the top
line ones *must* be better. Ask me if I will buy another Statesman. I was
also involved with sub testing with a mate of mine. Jamo subs a 2010 (200
watts 10" driver down firing $1100ish) and a 3015 (300 watts 15" driver side
firing $2,200ish) the 3015 was a piece of the proverbial the lower model one
kicked it's arse. This was repeated on 2 different systems in 2 different
homes.
You also didn't like my little formula and said it wasn't true but I'm
afraid it is as you do not have any of my money and I have been buying
overseas speakers.
If I read correctly what you have said is that your target market is first
time, uneducated (speaker wise that is) buyers. So where are we at with the
prejudiced, cantankerous, opinionated, argumentative, middle aged, one eyed
baby boomers that are looking at the upper end of the market? How do you
convince someone like me buy your product without hearing it or are you
happy with your market niche and don't care for more customers?
Hmmmmph! The only warm fuzzies I get near to is when I stroke the kids cat
:-)
Regards Terry Tencer terminal sceptic
"Philip Vafiadis" <phi...@vaf.com.au> wrote in message
news:9v69nk$36h$1...@pinah.connect.com.au...
Darryn
wrote:
>Hi Magic,
>yes of course you can have an opinion, -we all do.........
>such as when you wrote ""Personally, I dont like them ...."
>perfectly valid opinion............
>
>however, when you wrote "Their not even time and phase accurate.."
>that comes across as a statement of fact, not an opinion............
>thats like me saying " brand z speakers delaminate their boxes after 3
>years...."
>that sounds like a statement of fact, that i have some facts to back
>up........
>
>however, if i say' brand z speakers sound to bright to me'
>that comes across as an opinion-perfectly valid to have.............
>
>p.s i had a look at your website-your photo looks very pompous-my opinion
>;-)
Thats being nice I looked at it and thought what a complete wanker
What is the point in having a website dedicated to the "pursuit of
audio perfection" when all it seems to say is "this website is
dedicated to showing the world how wonderful I think my hifi setup is
and how everyone elses suck ass"
especially VAF speakers ;-> (not my opinion of course)
Darryn
MAGIC
How would you feel If I posted a slanderous attack against you?
MAGIC
www.holnet.net - The Pursuit of Audio Perfection
"Darryn" <d...@vianet.net.au> wrote in message
news:gl5e1ukuu9iscrcsv...@4ax.com...
MAGIC
> dedicated to showing the world how wonderful I think my hifi setup is
> and how everyone elses suck ass"
who said that? Considering I havent uploaded any content yet thats a pretty
massive assumption.
Anyway, I thought you should know I have forwarded your post as abuse to
your ISP.
Have a nice day. :-)
--
Regards,
MAGIC
www.holnet.net - The Pursuit of Audio Perfection
"MAGIC" <ma...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:0eFR7.449529$bY5.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
BOB
January sale! Look, you already have 3 customers in this newsgroup alone!
Imagine what would happen if you put a nice colourful 'sale' banner on your
webpage?
hehe
John
BOB
> On Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:22:00 +0800, "Laz" <larry31...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Magic,
>> yes of course you can have an opinion, -we all do.........
>> such as when you wrote ""Personally, I dont like them ...."
>> perfectly valid opinion............
>>
>> however, when you wrote "Their not even time and phase accurate.."
>> that comes across as a statement of fact, not an opinion............
>> thats like me saying " brand z speakers delaminate their boxes after 3
>> years...."
>> that sounds like a statement of fact, that i have some facts to back
>> up........
>>
>> however, if i say' brand z speakers sound to bright to me'
>> that comes across as an opinion-perfectly valid to have.............
>>
>> p.s i had a look at your website-your photo looks very pompous-my opinion
>> ;-)
Ok Magic, here we go... I feel that website is an absolute hunk of hot,
steaming, smelly faeces. <-- Look, that is an oppinion.
Now how about 'the persuit of web perfection,' idea: make a website which
actually works and is worth visiting!
now for the personal comment: Your interested in dungeons & dragons???
-enough said..
John.
BOB
ma...@bigpond.net.au wrote on 12/12/01 8:17 PM:
> Further to this - you say "this website is
>> dedicated to showing the world how wonderful I think my hifi setup is
>> and how everyone elses suck ass"
>
> who said that? Considering I havent uploaded any content yet thats a pretty
> massive assumption.
>
> Anyway, I thought you should know I have forwarded your post as abuse to
> your ISP.
>
> Have a nice day. :-)
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> MAGIC
> www.holnet.net - The Pursuit of Audio Perfection
>
>
Scary... you remind me of a little turd i know called dave.... your not
from melbourne are you?
Miss Purple Haze
> Further to this - you say "this website is
> > dedicated to showing the world how wonderful I think my hifi setup is
> > and how everyone elses suck ass"
> who said that? Considering I havent uploaded any content yet thats a
pretty
> massive assumption.
> Anyway, I thought you should know I have forwarded your post as abuse to
> your ISP.
Abuse????.....Oh dear.... can't he have an opinion, you certainly have
regarding Vaf's, he had his own opinion regarding the web site. I hardly
see how this amounts to abuse, please enlighten one!
> Have a nice day. :-)
> --
> Regards,
> MAGIC
> www.holnet.net - The Pursuit of Audio Perfection
>
>
--------------snip---------------------
Damien Smith
my
> entire life...oh what have I done! I will now go and buy the DCX's, (and
> move to a larger house) just so I can gain your approval...
Don't get me wrong - with a budget amp or receiver, the Richters probably
are the best choice....but seriously, have a listen to an entire Sony
mini-system priced similarly to your speakers....you'll be shocked at how
close it comes to matching the resolution of some Richters....It could have
been worse, you could have bought some cheap Aarons or Jamos. Happy
listening. : )
Damien Smith
> respectable performance, Rod.
Add some 'Hovland' capacitors?
Laz
what about when you said about vaf speakers "Their not even time and phase
accurate.."
isn't that slander ??????????
(ps you spelled 'their' wrong ;-)
also Darryn said "
What is the point in having a website dedicated to the "pursuit of
audio perfection" when all it seems to say is "this website is
dedicated to showing the world how wonderful I think my hifi setup is
and how everyone elses suck ass"
notice the "seems" <--- that infers it is his opinion !!!!!!!
???????????
Laz
"MAGIC" <ma...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:0eFR7.449529$bY5.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Laz
"TT" <sw...@swat.com.au> wrote in message
news:FcER7.7$na7...@vicpull1.telstra.net...
that's a very good point
I also know of others looking to get better speakers,
but they certainly want to 'demo' them first......
the dcx are a cheap 'experiment'
while the better models would be too risky for most people to take a punt on
without listening to them first...........
>
> You also didn't like my little formula and said it wasn't true but I'm
> afraid it is as you do not have any of my money and I have been buying
> overseas speakers.
>
also true-other friends have listened to my dcx and like them,
but wouldn't buy other models without a demo first................
> If I read correctly what you have said is that your target market is first
> time, uneducated (speaker wise that is) buyers. So where are we at with
the
> prejudiced, cantankerous, opinionated, argumentative, middle aged, one
eyed
> baby boomers that are looking at the upper end of the market? How do you
> convince someone like me buy your product without hearing it or are you
> happy with your market niche and don't care for more customers?
>
snip
> Regards Terry Tencer terminal sceptic
>
>
quite a valid point philip.............
Darryn
wrote:
>Darryn; making personal attacks is slanderous and totally unnecessary.
>How would you feel If I posted a slanderous attack against you?
>
Feel free as we have been saying everyone is entitled to his or her
opinion
Darryn
Darryn
wrote:
>Further to this - you say "this website is
>> dedicated to showing the world how wonderful I think my hifi setup is
>> and how everyone elses suck ass"
No I said it 'seems'
>who said that? Considering I havent uploaded any content yet thats a pretty
>massive assumption.
MAGIC
Please take two steps back and look at your web site from the point of
view of someone who has never seen it before, but has been following
the discusson regarding VAF speakers and seeing your url decides to
take a peek
Title 'The pursuit of audio perfection'
Content none so far,
Fair enough you said you haven't uploaded it yet
All you do have are headings for all of the different bits of gear you
have, a rants section and some other interests
And a smug, some may call it pompous looking (I called it differently)
picture of yourself
Is the equipment listed on your site 'Audio perfection'
>Anyway, I thought you should know I have forwarded your post as abuse to
>your ISP.
No problems there is always two sides to every story.
>Have a nice day. :-)
I will and have had a nice day it is now evening
Good night
Darryn
Darryn
wrote:
Now now bob that might be classed as slanderous
Darryn
Trevor Wilson
> > **If you're in Sydney, I can upgrade those Aarons to provide quite
> > respectable performance, Rod.
>
> Add some 'Hovland' capacitors?
**Yeah, riiiight.
I'll put 'em in, if a client demands it. I would make other, more cost
effective (and audibly identical) solutions, however.
Chris Botterill
money back guarntee. If you don't like them then send em back and nothing is
lost....If you were looking seriously not just "tire kicking", at $4-5-6k
like I-93 speakers then wouldn't it be worth a couple of hundred bucks or so
to fly to adelaide to listen for yourselves ?..seems obvious to me. Thats if
your serious about it..
Chris.
"Laz" <larry31...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tHHR7.91931$li3.7...@ozemail.com.au...
remarkabel
"MAGIC" <ma...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> Darryn; making personal attacks is slanderous and totally unnecessary.
> How would you feel If I posted a slanderous attack against you?
>
>
> MAGIC
> www.holnet.net - The Pursuit of Audio Perfection
Actually, like it or not there is nothing slanderous in what Darryn has
written...
"...and I thought..." (note *thought*) "...what a complete wanker." Now,
if he'd said, "Magic *is* a complete wanker", then that might be
different. Of course, you would have to prove, in the balance of
probabilities, that you weren't actually a complete wanker and that this
statement had damaged your reputation. So you would have to show that
the groups opinion of you had been diminished by the statement.
Likewise with Darryn's next paragraph...
"...all it seems to say..." again note the word *seems*.
Sorry,
Mark
remarkabel
"Chris Botterill" <in...@mira.net> wrote:
> I don't get it ? as phillip has mentioned numerous times the DC-X's have a
> money back guarntee. If you don't like them then send em back and nothing is
> lost....If you were looking seriously not just "tire kicking", at $4-5-6k
> like I-93 speakers then wouldn't it be worth a couple of hundred bucks or so
> to fly to adelaide to listen for yourselves ?..seems obvious to me. Thats if
> your serious about it..
>
> Chris.
Who would go to Adelaide and *only* listen to the VAF's ? Surely their
are other temptations to make the trip worthwhile ? Barossa, Clare,
Adelaide Hills, Hahndorf, etc etc etc
Cheers,
Mark
Trevor Wilson
"remarkabel" <remar...@ozemailDOTcom.au> wrote in message
news:remarkabel-6DDFB...@news2.ozemail.com.au...
> In article <ZKQR7.712$ko4....@nasal.pacific.net.au>,
> "Chris Botterill" <in...@mira.net> wrote:
>
> > I don't get it ? as phillip has mentioned numerous times the DC-X's have
a
> > money back guarntee. If you don't like them then send em back and
nothing is
> > lost....If you were looking seriously not just "tire kicking", at
$4-5-6k
> > like I-93 speakers then wouldn't it be worth a couple of hundred bucks
or so
> > to fly to adelaide to listen for yourselves ?..seems obvious to me.
Thats if
> > your serious about it..
> >
> > Chris.
>
> Who would go to Adelaide and *only* listen to the VAF's ? Surely their
> are other temptations to make the trip worthwhile ? Barossa, Clare,
> Adelaide Hills, Hahndorf, etc etc etc
>
**Mmmm, Hahndorf. Muggleton's General Store, makes the visit worthwhile.
Their chicken pies are superb.
Chris Botterill
speaker money on boxes of fermented grape juice !..and lets not get in to a
debate about which vineyards are the best to visit...!..
Chris
"remarkabel" <remar...@ozemailDOTcom.au> wrote in message
news:remarkabel-6DDFB...@news2.ozemail.com.au...
Laz
I think damien is confusing you with trevor (hovland) lees ;-)
laz
"Trevor Wilson" <tre...@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:ZVNR7.452684$bY5.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Laz
1. I hadn't heard back from you regarding a couple of questions I asked ?
(were you too busy reporting people to their isp's for making comments you
didn't like, in my opinion..........
it was interesting to read Vaf's reasoned response to your post, and
contrast your response to darryn.....
in my opinion, someone who is 'pursuing audio perfect would be looing at
having/stating opinons that are based on their own experiences, or have a
reasoned logical basis..........
2. "Laz" <larry31...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:nDHR7.91925$li3.7...@ozemail.com.au...
> hi magic,
> what about when you said about vaf speakers "Their not even time and
phase
> accurate.."
> isn't that slander ??????????
> (ps you spelled 'their' wrong ;-)
I was curious as to your response as to your reasons behind this statement ?
3. On Wed, 12 Dec 2001 08:22:00 +0800, "Laz" <larry31...@hotmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >Hi Magic,
> > > >yes of course you can have an opinion, -we all do.........
> > > >such as when you wrote ""Personally, I dont like them ...."
> > > >perfectly valid opinion............
> > > >
> > > >however, when you wrote "Their not even time and phase accurate.."
> > > >that comes across as a statement of fact, not an opinion............
> > > >thats like me saying " brand z speakers delaminate their boxes after
3
> > > >years...."
> > > >that sounds like a statement of fact, that i have some facts to back
> > > >up........
> > > >
> > > >however, if i say' brand z speakers sound to bright to me'
> > > >that comes across as an opinion-perfectly valid to have.............
> > > >
Magic, do you understand the difference between making an uninformed
comment/statement
and one where you have some evidence/experience to form that statement ?
magic-how can you make comments like "Personally, I dont like them - but
many people here seem to. I have no idea why.
Their not even time and phase accurate." when you dont seem to have
seen one close up and inspected how the drivers are aligned ?
your opinions are very welcolm here, BUT if you make comments that don't
seem to be based on evidence
this lowers everyone's expectations
of your views being at all intelligently formed by using critical thinking
and comparisons........
4. Magic, you said "Do some listening comparisons, ...." is an earlier post,
when you said "Personally, I dont like them - but many people here seem to.
I have no idea
why. Their not even time and phase accurate." how had you listened to a
pair to make this opinion ?
-It seems that you work in an Av business, your industry experience will be
very welcome here,....
regards
Laz
ps. good luck in your pursuit towards 'audio perfection' :-)
Philip Vafiadis
it's intent from the parts of it that were included in Laz's reply....anyone
else not see all the posts sometimes??
to the point.....
The DC-Series are what many people aspire to. By 'normal' (Non-Hi-Fi)
standards they are expensive despite most enthusiasts considering them as a
great bargain. They offer a good level of general accuracy and excel in some
areas. They are VERY sensitive, easy to drive, play soft or loud, go deep
etc etc....ie they offer a *LOT* of 'bang for the buck' and are within
financial reach for many people.
Some enthusiasts want finer performance and that is where our Signature
speakers come in. Their dynamic linearity is second to none and their
distortion levels are 5 times lower than most other 'good' speakers. This
takes a lot of careful engineering (not to be confused with tweaking) and
costs more. We still sell them direct so their value is still exceptional.
Your comment that retail margins at the upper end of the market are smaller
is incorrect. Retail margins on most speakers are between 50% on to 80% on
and I have seen *NO* correlation of these margins with price. There are
specific exceptions to everything but if you have been told by a reseller
that margins on speakers at the top end are generally smaller, then you have
been lied to. Electronic components have significantly lower margins than
speakers and vision products have smaller margins again.
Now for the question that has 'dogged' humanity since time began, how does
TT get to hear VAF Signature Series speakers and How does VAF get TT's
loyalty, his admiration and his money.....where do you live TT? I'll put my
'thinking cap' on........If I can work something out I will....just share
your experiences so that others will benefit from them.
the big picture....
The real issue with regard to VAF's sales approach is that VAF cannot be all
things to all people. I cannot reconcile what will be lost at VAF if we
engage in conventional sales through retailers. If we sell to dealers we
lose contact with our customers and loose control over the quality of advice
they receive. Also adding in the retail margin will erode our competitive
advantage. Our business model is working very well, however we do not
'reach' everyone. Lots of people suggest that for a fee they can run a
demonstration facility in various locations. While this idea has some merit
it is just a 'dealer type' arrangement with a different name. These types of
ideas are not possible for VAF. VAF is my company and I like the type of
relationships we build with our customers. As a regular here you must have
read all the wonderful reports of our customer service so it is self evident
that the staff at VAF are skilled and well motivated. VAF is a good business
and a good place to work. We have exciting plans for significant growth and
these will unfold soon....but I keep coming back to the fact that we cannot
be all things to all people. What we offer is very specific and quite
different from a normal retailer. Our marketing approach is passive and we
do not insist, coerce, trick, 'slag' other brands or use ploys to 'get'
customers. The customers we get are simply attracted to 'who' VAF is and
what we offer. If this doesn't 'float your boat' that's alright just choose
something else as you have in the past, that is the right choice for you.
Kind regards
Philip Vafiadis
VAF Research Pty Ltd
www.vaf.com.au
"Laz" <larry31...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tHHR7.91931$li3.7...@ozemail.com.au...
Mark Pakula
>read all the wonderful reports of our customer service so it is self evident
>that the staff at VAF are skilled and well motivated. VAF is a good business
>and a good place to work. We have exciting plans for significant growth and
>these will unfold soon....
Philip, please let me know when you are hiring:)
Mark.
Robby
Robbynews:9v95a3$o09$1...@pinah.connect.com.au...
zippo
"Philip Vafiadis" <phi...@vaf.com.au> wrote in message
news:9v95a3$o09$1...@pinah.connect.com.au...
TT
sanity or even accuse you of trying to pick a fight!
I will pretend you are smarter than what your comments here indicate. Lets
do the sums. I live 2 hours from Perth airport. Ticket price say $300, fuel
to and from for my Landcruiser 100 $80, overnight accommodation in Adelaide
$180, Taxi fares to and from Vaf $?????, meals & beverages $100. This is
already $660 and I have lost 2 days out my life! This is assuming I can do
this on the weekend or do you want me to take time off work and stop earning
an income as well?
Here's a little exercise, go and tell your wife you want to take $1,000 and
fly to Adelaide for the weekend and listen to some speakers you may or may
not want to buy.
So Chris tell me is this still a good deal? Or do I just buy what I like
the sound of locally and send my money over seas?
Tip of the day: Think things through a little better.
TT
"Chris Botterill" <in...@mira.net> wrote in message
news:ZKQR7.712$ko4....@nasal.pacific.net.au...
Adam F
out of Perth.
Adam F
"Philip Vafiadis" <phi...@vaf.com.au> wrote in message
news:9v95a3$o09$1...@pinah.connect.com.au...
> ....For some reason my browser does not see TT's post. I am only assuming
> it's intent from the parts of it that were included in Laz's
reply....anyone
> else not see all the posts sometimes??
>
> to the point.....
>
Chris Botterill
i'm not sure how to respond to that..but fight bollocks with more bollocks I
suppose..
Alright smartass....Virgin fly to adelaide for $189 return.(not
$300)...sorry can't do anything about you gas guzzleing landcruiser....I'm
sure you could pick some reasonable accom up easily for $80/night..(I don't
think you really need to stay 5star do you ?), meal for $20. ($100 for one
night.c'mon!!)....also considering you've got to eat anyway..like myself,
many do..then 2 days from an average 27375 day life span.. so that'd be 2
days "lost" as you call it, for something that may give you a lifetime of
enjoyment....fair ratio I reckon...so I've calculated something closer to
$400....as I said in my previous post It depends if you are serious or
not...obviously your not.......actually if you have even longer pockets then
you could fly there for the day..remember people fly daily all over this
country for buisness...so if you SERIOUS in something like the signature
series for instance consider it no more then 5% R&D.... who knows you may
also enjoy yourself while your there...why not package the trip together
with things such as those suggested by mark and trevor and invite your wife
too..
Tip for ewe : my partner and I live in a give and take type of
relationship...you should try it one day.
I suppose being a satisfied VAF customer and keen supporter of products made
in OZ, I might be biased too !! Anything is justifiable depending which way
you want to look at it. Hi-fi being the worst offender !!!
Chris.
"TT" <sw...@swat.com.au> wrote in message
news:01WR7.2$T5....@vicpull1.telstra.net...
Gavern
hours
>out of Perth.
>
>Adam F
And like many of us in Perth, all you really gotta do is ask..... That's how
I got to appreciate MY Vaf's - some kindly soul in the Kalamunda hills
(sorry Dave or Rob or whomever you are - too many happy movie hours have
passed under the bridge.....). And for me I was doubly happy when he had the
sister model to my own Amp...8)
And that is one thing Vaf relies on: word of mouth and sound of ear when
happy customers are more than willing to allow complete strangers to come
into their homes to sample what may (or may not) suit their tastes and/or
budget.
Cheers,
Gavern
PS and yes, if I ever decide to upgrade to the SIg series, I would most
definitely have to take a trip to SA for a trial. And of course, then double
the budget because of the wineries..... Two birds/one stone. Flock of
seagulls to me!!!
MAGIC
with my time than respond to personal insults and challenges to my more than
fifteen years experience in the Audio Industry. Most of the posters to this
NG have no idea what High Fidelity sound is and wouldnt know what High
Resolution 2 Channel Audio even sounded like. The majority have poorly
set-up systems that are shining examples of mid-fi mediocrity.
Their opinion about Audio products is about as irrelivent as the kind of
prose found in a dolly magazine.
As some of the posters to this NG are aware I ran my website about 12 months
ago and received huge amounts of positive feedback, queries and requests for
comment (I will be uploading all this previous comment when I have time).
The opinion of a couple of morons with nothing better to do that critisise a
site that clearly stats is currently without content(!) Is laughable.
As I said, this is my final post as I dont need to be told by some pimple
faced newbie with a $300 DVD player what good sound is. I've got better
things to do.
So... ciao.
MAGIC
www.holnet.net - The Pursuit of Audio Perfection
"Laz" <larry31...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:uoSR7.92156$li3.7...@ozemail.com.au...
Laz
Keith Liauw
gamble on VAF when there are plenty of good locally manufactured speakers
here that I can look/feel/touch listen to. What are VAF DCXs going for
assembled? About 1900/pr assembled in timber veneer? This is about the sam
as the Legend Kama 2 which I heard today, absolutely loved and decided to
buy.
Not saying that they are better than the VAFs cos I haven't had a chance to
listen to them, but why would I buy speakers on the say so of what everyone
else on this NG says when there are plent of other great speakers around
that I can demo?
Just my $0.02
Cheers
Keith
"Welly" <wels...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:aX2R7.236522$e5.1...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
> I keep hearing numerous reports on this NG regarding how wonderful VAF
DC-X
> speakers are. Are there any people on this newsgroup who have
> heard/purchased these speakers and found them to be just OK or average, or
> even a heap of steaming faeces?
>
> As I said, this is a serious question. I am looking around for new
speakers
> at the moment and I find hard to believe that nobody seems to have a
> negative comment. The only mildly negative comment I have read is that
with
> some amplifiers (usually Yamaha it seems), the speaker can exhibit some
> harshness. I am NOT trying to be funny or stir up an argument. I merely
want
> to know if anyone disliked these speakers and, if so, why?
>
> Also, of the people who do like them, what sort of gear are using "in
front"
> of them, i.e. what amps and source components?
>
>
Geoff
> with my time than respond to personal insults and challenges to my more
than
> fifteen years experience in the Audio Industry. Most of the posters to
this
Fifteen years of experience in the audio industry and you still can't figure
out whether VAF speakers are time coherent when the phase response is clear
as day on their website and pictures of the speakers are also available
showing what looks like recessed tweeters to align the voice coils.
Maybe you should stop making personal (to Philip) insults by alleging that
VAFs aren't time aligned when they clearly are?
> NG have no idea what High Fidelity sound is and wouldnt know what High
> Resolution 2 Channel Audio even sounded like. The majority have poorly
> set-up systems that are shining examples of mid-fi mediocrity.
You know, the ivory trade is illegal...
> Their opinion about Audio products is about as irrelivent as the kind of
> prose found in a dolly magazine.
And you can spell at a 4th grade level!
> As I said, this is my final post as I dont need to be told by some pimple
> faced newbie with a $300 DVD player what good sound is. I've got better
> things to do.
Good. We don't need to be told that a pair of amazingly well priced
australian speakers is "not even time and phase accurate" when a quick look
at the website provides a full set of measurements that tell a completely
different story.
Forward this post to abuse as well. Come back and check the newsgroup in a
few weeks' time and you'll see that SFA has happened as a result. in fact,
let me help you, the address is ab...@optushome.com.au
I think you're exceptionally naive to think that you can get people "kicked
off the internet" for saying something you don't like...
Geoff
Geoff
all
> things to all people.
Well said Phil, I know you weren't intending to change anyway but I don't
think you should ;)
Wide variety of speakers sold via retail outlets and various dealer
arrangements, you have free pick and choose. Otherwise go for mail order,
the possible inconvenience of having to find someone in your area with a
pair is offset by the much lower price and benefit of listening to speakers
in a living room rather than in a showroom, which is totally different in
furnishings.
Geoff
Mike Fitzpatrick
ma...@bigpond.net.au wrote on 13/12/01 3:59 PM:
> No. You wont hear from me any more after this. I have better things to do
> with my time than respond to personal insults and challenges to my more than
> fifteen years experience in the Audio Industry. Most of the posters to this
> NG have no idea what High Fidelity sound is and wouldn't know what High
> Resolution 2 Channel Audio even sounded like. The majority have poorly
> set-up systems that are shining examples of mid-fi mediocrity.
>
> Their opinion about Audio products is about as irrelivent as the kind of
> prose found in a dolly magazine.
>
> As some of the posters to this NG are aware I ran my website about 12 months
> ago and received huge amounts of positive feedback, queries and requests for
> comment (I will be uploading all this previous comment when I have time).
> The opinion of a couple of morons with nothing better to do that critisise a
> site that clearly stats is currently without content(!) Is laughable.
>
> As I said, this is my final post as I dont need to be told by some pimple
> faced newbie with a $300 DVD player what good sound is. I've got better
> things to do.
>
> So... ciao.
>
> MAGIC
> www.holnet.net - The Pursuit of Audio Perfection
Oh dear, another who takes himself WAY too seriously... someone who feels
they never have to listen to others who might actually have a better idea
than they do, or even just a good point or a different idea!! Repeat after
me: Never admit you are wrong, never admit you are wrong! (Of course he
cannot/will not elaborate on his time and phase comment...)
Of course he would tell us that he has never been so insulted or had to
listen to such insolence (giggle) and that he gets along just fine with
everyone else who nods in agreement when he utters words of wisdom except
the people here... yes, yes of course.
I am sure we all know that this guy knows MUCH more than anybody else here,
what with his 15 years of experience, oh master and guru of all things hifi.
I do not usually get involved in these types of threads but my god you sound
like a pompous arse MAGIC and you can forward this opinion as abuse too if
it makes you feel powerful tiger.
Hey, at least we don't have to hear from him again!! ;-)
Mike
(PS - no pimples on me baby)
usul
Now look what you've done...no more MAGIC.
I was finding this thread seriously entertaining, but no more :(
(Thanks Willy for your original post!)
Please come back MAGIC, please share your wisdom, please set yourself up for
another entertaining fall...
Still, if you don't come back, there is always your web site. I for one will
be tracking its development with intense interest (so that my 20 something
years audio experience can continue to grow).
Cheers.
"MAGIC" <ma...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:idZR7.250$_z....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Rod LG
would also hope that Magic returns.
Welly, it was a wonderful thread.
Rod LG
"usul" <us...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:3FaS7.2$5J3...@news0.optus.net.au...
M o r g z
a
> site that clearly stats is currently without content(!) Is laughable.
Suggestion..... Stop advertising it until it has. Sending people to empty
websites is a waste of their time and bandwidth. As was this post :-)
Morgz.
Impressed VAF DC-7 owner and no longer a "pimple faced" anything. That was a
long time ago.
Laz
you've really impressed me.............
you can't or won't answer some reasonable questions so you resort to
personal insults ???
you must have developed really good 'sales skills' in all your years in the
industry
if, when someone questions you resort to abuse ?
I assume that this is not always the case ?
So I am just 'lucky' ?
by the way-i'm not a pimply faced teenager
I also don't have a $300 dvd player..............
regards
Laz
P.S. You should read posts by patric scully, trevor wilson, philip at vaf,
etc for examples of reasoned, logical responses......
After all, even though your 'many years in the industry' are very obvious
from the high quality of your replies,
we can always learn something ?
In my opinion, they seem to post well thought out, and valuable repsonses to
questions.........
I'm sure you know a lot more than me with regards to hifi, I am just taking
issue with you making statements,
when you do not seem to be able to explain a logical reasoning behind them ?
eg. could you answer question 2 below-or will you just respond with abuse
again ?
"MAGIC" <ma...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:idZR7.250$_z....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
remarkabel
"Trevor Wilson" <tre...@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
> "remarkabel" <remar...@ozemailDOTcom.au> wrote in message
> news:remarkabel-6DDFB...@news2.ozemail.com.au...
> > In article <ZKQR7.712$ko4....@nasal.pacific.net.au>,
> > "Chris Botterill" <in...@mira.net> wrote:
> >
> > > I don't get it ? as phillip has mentioned numerous times the DC-X's have
> a
> > > money back guarntee. If you don't like them then send em back and
> nothing is
> > > lost....If you were looking seriously not just "tire kicking", at
> $4-5-6k
> > > like I-93 speakers then wouldn't it be worth a couple of hundred bucks
> or so
> > > to fly to adelaide to listen for yourselves ?..seems obvious to me.
> Thats if
> > > your serious about it..
> > >
> > > Chris.
> >
> > Who would go to Adelaide and *only* listen to the VAF's ? Surely their
> > are other temptations to make the trip worthwhile ? Barossa, Clare,
> > Adelaide Hills, Hahndorf, etc etc etc
> >
>
> **Mmmm, Hahndorf. Muggleton's General Store, makes the visit worthwhile.
> Their chicken pies are superb.
Mmmmm....yes. Can't talk - drooling....
Trevor Wilson
"remarkabel" <remar...@ozemailDOTcom.au> wrote in message
>
> Mmmmm....yes. Can't talk - drooling....
**Heheh. I just had a vision of Homer Simpson. Sorry Mark.
Kong
and everytime a huge VAF thread is always there! We should start an
aus.hi-fi.vaf NG. I don't think any other Oz loudspeaker company has brought
up so much "emotion" and controversies in this group, even from people who
have never heard a single VAF product.
Fact is the direct marketing and sales method they employ will have some
disadvantages but it does make sense. Take a look at nOrh who sale direct
worldwide from Taiwan.
I know the customer service question (quality, delivery...) keeps coming up.
Well for anyone who still has any doubt, DON'T WORRY! I doubt that there
have been any complaints at all in their long history. When my DC-Xs ran
into some problems (the dust cap came loose), it took less than 24 hours for
them to replace the driver. All I had to do was bring it there and then
later that day, pick it up. Use Deja and you'll find several dozens of other
stories talking about their execellent customer service.
But to the real question at hand... their speakers or more specifically, the
famous DC-X.
Not everyone is gonna like the sound. Like I've mentioned before, I find the
midbass on the DC-Xs a little anemic which became very apparent when
compared to the I-91 bookshelves. I've seen 1 or 2 reviews have commented on
this as well as freq response tests which verify this. I also remember
seeing a number of previous posts which talk about this too.
Don't blast the guy who choose Richter speakers over the DC-Xs. The DC-X's
forward and bright upper mids can definately get annoying and the low
midbass response exaggerates this. Its the complete opposite on the Richter
which has a lot more midbass but is smoother in the upper mids. I have the
tone controls permanently to increase the bass and reduce the treble to make
the Xs sound just right.
The DC-Xs definately won't be everyone's cup of tea for speakers under $1500
and anyone who claims so it truly fooling themselves. For example, the Krix
Lyrix, IMO performs just as well (but with a completely different tonal
quality) and is cheaper to boot. The Duntech Pearl which is slightly more
expensive is a much more refined speaker. Plus the imported Dynaudio
Audience 50s which are around the same price as the kit DC-Xs, sound
noticeably better but will less deep bass. How about the people who prefer a
darker smoother sound, something from Tannoy or Sonique perhaps. They would
run screaming from the DC-Xs.
Oh yeah, I know the VAF DC-X/7/6 combo is very popular but has anyone
contemplated a timber I-91/DC-4/DC-2 combination? I feel that downgrading
the surround and centre channels is worth the upgrade from the DC-Xs to the
I-91s, plus you get timber veneer on all the speakers. Nicer looking and
MUCH better stereo performance.
"Trevor Wilson" <tre...@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:XbtR7.447143$bY5.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "MAGIC" <ma...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
> news:LblR7.443813$bY5.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> > Trevor as stated in one of my posts above - check out the Vandersteen
> 2CE's
> > or some of the entry level Mirage, Thiels or Dunlavys for speakers that
> > outperform the VAF's.
>
> **Models and prices, please.
>
> >
> > Remember its my opinion. Listen for yourself and make up your own mind.
>
> **Absolutely.
Henry Brown
"Keith Liauw" <kli...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:A8%R7.92570$li3.7...@ozemail.com.au...
> Gotta agree with wholeheartedly with TT here. I can't bring myself to take
a
> gamble on VAF when there are plenty of good locally manufactured speakers
> here that I can look/feel/touch listen to. What are VAF DCXs going for
> assembled? About 1900/pr assembled in timber veneer? This is about the sam
> as the Legend Kama 2 which I heard today, absolutely loved and decided to
> buy.
If You get the legends home and they do not sound as good as they did in the
shop will the dealer give you your dosh back?
Remember if you ordered the DX-X at $1900 and did not like them then VAF
will give you a full refund. I purchased my DC-X's because of this. I could
set them up in MY room with MY amp and listen for 1 week then decide. Try
doing that with most HI-FI stores in Perth. Most will allow an exchange but
watch your bargaining power fly out the window as you buy the next set of
speakers from him at full retail price cause you are locked into his store.
Not a flame just my thoughts.
Cheers
Henry
Lloyd
Philip Vafiadis <phi...@vaf.com.au> wrote in message news:9v3glr$81
> I am also curious about your wording. You say "not 'even' time...."
infering
> that good time domain performance is common,
When you say "infering" (actually with two r's) it actually should be
"implying".
There is a crucial difference.
Lloyd
The Grammar Net-Cop.
Rod Crawford
Two vaguely related comments:
1. On Wednesday I had some feedback from a customer saying the Legends he
received last week "far exceeded his expectations" when he got them home.
2. On Friday after a meeting at Melbourne Uni when asked by a Prof from
their Business School what I thought of the VAF loudspeakers he was thinking
of buying, I replied that I thought "they represented very good value for
money along with a number of other Aussie loudspeakers".
Cheers
Rod
(Dr) Rod Crawford
for Legend Acoustics
"Fast, open, Australian speakers"
www.legendspeakers.com.au
ABN 32 812 648 096
Henry Brown <a_nu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3c1ad058$0$13...@echo-01.iinet.net.au...
Aleksandar Alimpijevic
Which Richter speakers did you get, and what is the rest of your system
like?
I'm in the dilema to either get Richter Sabre + Leopard + Cheetah(centre)
with Yamaha RXV620 or MS908 +MS 902 +MS(matching centre).
Both of these combo sound good to me, though the space where I heard them
was not really meant for demos.
Any opinions?
Cheers
Aleks
Robby
you do then you will be hammered!!
"Lloyd" <iaml...@dingoblue.net.au> wrote in message
news:3c1b4308$0$17927$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Lloyd
Robby <ijr...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:KjRS7.293364$e5.1...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
> Lloyd, don't ever make a spelling error yourself. I would suggest that if
> you do then you will be hammered!!
It wasn't the spelling error I was concerned about but the grammatical
error; "inferred" is constantly used erroneously and I felt this ng would
want its pages to be untainted by such solecisms.
Briefly, speakers and writers IMPLY; listeners and readers INFER.
Got that everybody?
Robby
I will admit that it sent me scurrying for the dictionary though.
Keep up the 'watching over' users of this ng.news:3c1c1599$0$25719$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Patric Scully
> No. You wont hear from me any more after this. I have better things to do
> with my time than respond to personal insults and challenges to my more than
> fifteen years experience in the Audio Industry. Most of the posters to this
> NG have no idea what High Fidelity sound is and wouldnt know what High
> Resolution 2 Channel Audio even sounded like. The majority have poorly
> set-up systems that are shining examples of mid-fi mediocrity.
You sound like the verbal equivalent of a cornered rat. Comments from
someone who claims to have 15 years experience in the Audio industry.
Well Magic, your comments suggest that your experience has not really
taught very much. Now, I don't know you from a bar of soap, as another
poster responded to me in another thread, but to quote Scripture, "...
by their deeds shall ye know them ..." or something very like this.
Well, my almost 40 years experience dealing with loudspeaker systems
since I built my first guitar combo amplifier tells me something about
your knowledge. You claimed that VAF speakers "... were not even time
or phase coherent ..." or something similar. And you gave as your
evidence for this that the drivers weren't recessed in the cabinets.
If this is the extent of your knowledge of this topic, you should go
back and study some more. Now I am not speaking for Phillip, he is
quite capable of doing this himself, and I don't have any insight into
the design philosophies of his speaker systems other that what can be
freely read on the VAF website. But some of the VAF speakers at least
have their tweeter recessed from the surface of the baffle, and have
some shaped woolen (apparently) felt surrounding the front of the
tweeters. But this may have nothing to do with time alignment, it
could be to do with controlling diffraction artefacts, or other types
of reflection. But I don't know, and it doesn't matter.
Why? Because in your comments you demonstrate that you dont know how
time alignment and phase coherence is achieved in real world
loudspeaker systems. Sure, there was a fashion about 10/15 years ago
to use stepped baffles as a means of time alignment, but this is not
how it is done.
The object in time aligning drivers is to have their "zero deflection
plane" or ZDF in the same vertical and horizontal planes. This is the
location in time and space from which a loudspeaker driver begins to
move when driven by a signal. This is achieved both physically due to
the location of the voice coil and electronically, via the crossover.
The signal that drives the voice coil has a phase component, and
making sure that all the drivers move at the same time from the same
location is achieved partly by controlling phase. And given that this
is being done in the crossover network, differences in the 'physical'
planes of the voice coil are dealt with electrically at the same time.
Which is why loudspeaker drivers that are not 'apparently' in the same
vertical and horizontal planes cannot be inferred to be "not even time
aligned and phase coherent". Something that you did and subsequently
implied on this newsgroup. Only the designer of the system, i.e., the
combination of the driver and crossover network, may be aware of this,
as well as those who are informed by the designer. In other words,
time alignment and phase coherence of a set of drivers can be achieved
electrically, in the design of the crossover network, and this state
would not be obvious to an observer. Only by measuring the outcome of
a design undertaken in this way can someone "know" about a speaker
system's time alignment and phase coherence.
Apart from the fact that such factors enhance the accuracy of a
system, which in my experience is audible.
Your mileage may differ!
So back to your studies, if you will. And until you know more, please
shut up about other people's products when it is obvious that YOU
don't cannot distinguish such things as 'time alignment and phase
coherence' from a "bar of soap"
> Their opinion about Audio products is about as irrelivent as the kind of
> prose found in a dolly magazine.
From what I have read, this describes you very well!
> As some of the posters to this NG are aware I ran my website about 12 months
> ago and received huge amounts of positive feedback, queries and requests for
> comment (I will be uploading all this previous comment when I have time).
> The opinion of a couple of morons with nothing better to do that critisise a
> site that clearly stats is currently without content(!) Is laughable.
And I would volunteer the comment that a website "without content" is
about as useful as tits on a bull. Which is not very...!
> As I said, this is my final post as I dont need to be told by some pimple
> faced newbie with a $300 DVD player what good sound is. I've got better
> things to do.
As I have found, many newbies catch on to things very quickly, a
quality which one would be rash to attribute to you.
Pimples derive from temporally driven hormone balances, and to my
certain knowledge demonstrate absolutely nothing about a person's
knowledge or intellectual capacity!
And my Pioneer DV525 is probably worth about $300 at the moment, my
DV717 about twice that much if I am optimistic.
None of which has anything at all to do with my knowledge of audio in
general and loudspeaker design in particular.
> So... ciao.
Ahh, pretensious to the last, I see. N'cest pas?
>
> MAGIC
> www.holnet.net - The Pursuit of Audio Perfection
Get a (better) life Magic.
cheers
Patric Scully
The Soundman.
Patric Scully
> "MAGIC" <ma...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message news:<idZR7.250$_z....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
> The object in time aligning drivers is to have their "zero deflection
> plane" or ZDF in the same vertical and horizontal planes.
OOPS, too much coffee just before I wrote this. It should have read
"... 'zero delay plane' or ZDP in the same vertical and horizontal
planes."
cheers
Patric Scully
The Soundman.