BELKIN SURGEBOARD on special at DSE
larry
I saw this in a local catalogue in case people are interested
laz
Trevor Gensch
"larry" <xm...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:3fa5dba6$1...@quokka.wn.com.au...
>
http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/3fa5db4705147946273fc0a87f9c06e
1/Product/View/M7244
>
> I saw this in a local catalogue in case people are interested
Thanks for the spam.
Ben
"Trevor Gensch" <trevorgensc...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:_dlpb.592$_z4....@news.optus.net.au...
larry
"Trevor Gensch" <trevorgensc...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:_dlpb.592$_z4....@news.optus.net.au...
>
i'm not spamming!
these are quite good surge protectors, I have 2 at home
and they have AV/coax inputs and phone inputs protected as well.
in the past when they were on special a lot of people with hometheatre
systems bought them...
you don't have to buy it...
laz
Trevor Gensch
> >
> >
>
> i'm not spamming!
You are.
> these are quite good surge protectors, I have 2 at home
> and they have AV/coax inputs and phone inputs protected as well.
> in the past when they were on special a lot of people with hometheatre
> systems bought them...
> you don't have to buy it...
You don't have to post it.
Are we to look forward to daily excerts from your favourite catalogues?
Please desist or find a quick entry to mine (and I am sure others)
killfiles.
Trev.
larry
"Trevor Gensch" <trevorgensc...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:Qumpb.595
> > these are quite good surge protectors, I have 2 at home
> > and they have AV/coax inputs and phone inputs protected as well.
> > in the past when they were on special a lot of people with hometheatre
> > systems bought them...
> > you don't have to buy it...
>
> You don't have to post it.
>
> Are we to look forward to daily excerts from your favourite catalogues?
>
> Please desist or find a quick entry to mine (and I am sure others)
> killfiles.
>
> Trev.
>
i must have missed the day when you were appointed 'group net cop ' ?
i assumed that a short post would be acceptable ?
after all these are good surge boards, with very useful inputs
if you want to kill file me-go ahead
laz
Trevor Wilson
> hi,
>
> "Trevor Gensch" <trevorgensc...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
> news:_dlpb.592$_z4....@news.optus.net.au...
> >
> > "larry" <xm...@invalid.com> wrote in message
> > news:3fa5dba6$1...@quokka.wn.com.au...
> > >
> >
>
http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/3fa5db4705147946273fc0a87f9c06e
> > 1/Product/View/M7244
> > >
> > > I saw this in a local catalogue in case people are interested
> >
> > Thanks for the spam.
> >
> >
>
> i'm not spamming!
**Yes, you are.
> these are quite good surge protectors,
**How do you know? Do you have independent tests, verifying their qualities?
BTW: I live in Sydney and in 30 years, I have not yet found any reason to
require a surge protector. Where are you? Perth? Perth is the only
Australian city where a surge protector _might_ (and that is a really big
'might') be of some use.
I have 2 at home
> and they have AV/coax inputs and phone inputs protected as well.
> in the past when they were on special a lot of people with hometheatre
> systems bought them...
**Big whoop. Just because you wasted your money, you don't have try to suck
others into your own paranoid delusions.
> you don't have to buy it...
**And you don't have to spam your crap to zillions of newsgroups. Please act
responsibly in future.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Robby
you tried to help people & they shit can you!! I, for one, don't
believe that you are being paid zillions for putting us onto a sale item
Robbynews:3fa5...@quokka.wn.com.au...
The Gadget Shop
protection than any other. Phone and coax guard might be of some use, but
ADSL users probably won't be able to use the phone line feature unless they
use it between the ADSL line filter and the phone.
The DSE price on the 8x board is cheaper than the 6x and cheaper than
anywhere else I've seen online - worth posting IMO.
After having fried a TV (power company paid up) and killed a couple of cheap
surge guards, I can recommended these... they'd be better if they had
individual on/off for each socket, instead of just one master on/off though.
Cheers, Jason (remove === to reply)
Macrovision disablers
http://gadgets.shorturl.com
Rob
> **How do you know? Do you have independent tests, verifying their qualities?
> BTW: I live in Sydney and in 30 years, I have not yet found any reason to
> require a surge protector. Where are you? Perth? Perth is the only
> Australian city where a surge protector _might_ (and that is a really big
> 'might') be of some use.
You are located only a few blocks away from an little incident a few
years ago where an insulator on the 33kv mains failed and the 33kv line
cut across the 240v mains below with predictable results. I'm glad that
I was using surge protectors.
Rob
1210
larry
"Robby" <ijr...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:Gfnpb.176575$bo1.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Geez Larry,
> you tried to help people & they shit can you!! I, for one, don't
> believe that you are being paid zillions for putting us onto a sale item
> Robby
well at least i don't bombard the group with ME amp emails like trevor
wilson does... :-)
I find them a nice, easy to use power board that so far seems to have been
useful
perth doesn't have the 'cleanest' power at times..
I do know my UPS for one pc has been very helpful
and i have my other pc/printer/fax etc running off one of these and even
with a couple of power outages so far so good....
laz
larry
"Trevor Wilson" <tre...@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:3fa5...@news.comindico.com.au...
>
> > these are quite good surge protectors,
>
> **How do you know? Do you have independent tests, verifying their
qualities?
> BTW: I live in Sydney and in 30 years, I have not yet found any reason to
> require a surge protector. Where are you? Perth? Perth is the only
> Australian city where a surge protector _might_ (and that is a really big
> 'might') be of some use.
>
> I have 2 at home
> > and they have AV/coax inputs and phone inputs protected as well.
> > in the past when they were on special a lot of people with hometheatre
> > systems bought them...
>
> **Big whoop. Just because you wasted your money, you don't have try to
suck
> others into your own paranoid delusions.
>
> > you don't have to buy it...
>
> **And you don't have to spam your crap to zillions of newsgroups. Please
act
> responsibly in future.
> Trevor Wilson
> www.rageaudio.com.au
hi trevor (number 2 trevor :-) you're coming out of the woodwork now.....
yes i'm in perth.
well, one friend has a 3 of these, and when we had some electrical problems
a couple of months ago
he had 2 electrical items get 'fried' (and later fixed)
but none of the items on his boards were affected.
i thought that was a reasonable (albeit if limited) test of their
usefulness....
well they are cheaper than a ME amp....
i only emailed this to the 4 aus groups that i read and I tohught would be
of interest
in the past there was a special of this board and it was of a lot of
interest to members of dvdplaza who had Ht systems.
:-)
laz
>
>
Hugh Jorgen
--
Hugh Jorgen.
Trevor Wilson
"Rob" <audiobA...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:3FA605EB...@ozemail.com.au...
**No surge protector would save you, in such an incident. Not one you can
buy from DSE, anyway. In 30 years, I have never needed a surge protector,
here in Sydney. All they do is suck money away from the frightened.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Trevor Wilson
**Then don't spam a zillion groups. The boards _may_ provide _some_ limited
use in Perth. That is about it.
> well, one friend has a 3 of these, and when we had some electrical
problems
> a couple of months ago
> he had 2 electrical items get 'fried' (and later fixed)
> but none of the items on his boards were affected.
> i thought that was a reasonable (albeit if limited) test of their
> usefulness....
**An extremely limited test.
>
> well they are cheaper than a ME amp....
**So what? They perform a completely different (albeit, essentially useless)
task.
>
> i only emailed this to the 4 aus groups that i read and I tohught would be
> of interest
**Good for you. Try to restrain yourself, in future. One post, one group.
Anymore and you can be accused of spamming.
> in the past there was a special of this board and it was of a lot of
> interest to members of dvdplaza who had Ht systems.
**A fool and his money......
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
DJ!
<two.seals.wal...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>I wonder how many people realise that the single component inside the case that actually does all the work when a surge occurs costs about $0.50.
About the same number as those who give a fcuk.
In any case, those hardcore virgin nerds have probably already built
themselves one using hookup wire and leftover vinyl pocket protectors.
DJ! (Sydney, NSW)
de...@ausmicro.com
http://www.ausmicro.com
MDHJWH
Hate to sound like a re-incarnation of PA, but take a bloody laxative Trev.
P31
1210
"Trevor Wilson" <tre...@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:3fa6...@news.comindico.com.au...
ruff
news:3fa6...@news.comindico.com.au...
"Rob" <audiobA...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:3FA605EB...@ozemail.com.au...
> > Trevor Wilson wrote:
Hmmm.....well up until a few weeks ago I would have said the same thing, but
about 11:30 PM last Thursday week, we had a huge surge which shut down the
power board & triggered the ELCB, but not before it reached the Cleansine
protection unit into which my audio system is plugged.
I had it fixed in a couple of days, & the tech who built (and repaired) it
said that it would have required at least 275 volts to take it out. As the
audio system has it's own line from the power board (the idea was to
minimise noise from the fridge, freezer, washing machine etc.) I decided to
use the extra protection afforded by this unit ;
http://www.alphalink.com.au/~gfs/cleansine/cleansin.htm
and boy, I'm glad I did. Without the Cleansine unit, who knows what damage
it might have done to my gear, which was the only electronic equipment
operating at the time (I was listening through phones). If it only happens
once Trev, it can still be both expensive & heart breaking, especially if
the gear is irreplaceable.
ruff
Rheilly Phoull
>
http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/3fa5db4705147946273fc0a87f9c06e1/Product/View/M7244
>
> I saw this in a local catalogue in case people are interested
>
> laz
>
>
Can you relate the surges etc that they have stopped or is it simply a price
thing and you have yet to test them in practice ??
--
Regards ............... Rheilly Phoull
Oat
You sir, are an retailer I hope never to have any dealing with.
w_tom
recommending something? It does not even claim to protect
from destructive type of surges. A simple guideline to
identify ineffective protectors. This product meets both
criteria: 1) no short (less than 3 meter) and dedicated
connection to earth ground. 2) Avoids all discussion about
earthing. Ineffective twice over!
One would claim it works great when even the manufacturer
does not make those claims? As another accurately noted, for
$100+, the effective components are on the order of $0.50.
Further information was posted as "Opinions on Surge
Protectors?" on 7 Jul 2003 in the newsgroup
alt.certification.a-plus or also at:
http://tinyurl.com/l3m9
Effective protector costs about $1 per protected appliance.
But even more important, a protector is only as effective as
its earth ground. So larry's recommendation avoids mentioning
earth - to make a grossly overpriced sale.
larry wrote:
http://www.dse.com.au/ ... M7244
Trevor Wilson
"ruff" <roughplan...@optushome.no_spam.com.au> wrote in message
news:3fa63843$0$29423$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
**Fair enough, BUT that does not address my claim that the DSE unit would
protect against a 33kV fault on the line. Nor does it address any of my
earlier points about the DSE unit as one which has proven and value for
money attributes. Worse, this crap is being spammed to a multitude of groups
(witness the highly intellectual comments thus far).
For the record, I do use a surge limiter (of my own design) on my computer.
It cost less than 8 Bucks. It uses 6 MOVs, 3 gas arrestors and a fuse. I've
never required it.
Also and for the record: My household insurance policy covers all this
stuff, anyway. Most do.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
MDHJWH
> I wonder how many people realise that the single component inside the
> case that actually does all the work when a surge occurs costs about
> $0.50.
on constructing our own surge protectors.Then none of us will need
patronise 'unscrupulous' retailers.
P31
Trevor Wilson
"MDHJWH" <mdh...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:808df0f8.03110...@posting.google.com...
**The device is called an 'MOV'. Metal Oxide Varistor. They'll likely cost a
little most than $0.50, unless you're buying lots of them. Jaycar have them
for $0.79 each. P# RN-3404. You'll need at least 3 of them.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Adam F
iron) that draws too much current and trips our main circuit breaker? I'm
sick of it turning off my computer when I'm in the middle of something or
(more importantly) my stereo when I'm in the middle of listening.
Putting it on a separate circuit is not an option (too expensive).
Replacing the iron is not an option (done that twice already, different
models each time).
So? Would a dse surge protector make any difference? If not what do I need?
Thanks,
Adam F
"w_tom" <w_t...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3FA68207...@hotmail.com...
Trevor Wilson
"Adam F" <asfletc...@uts.edu.au> wrote in message
news:3fa6d202$0$1724$5a62...@freenews.iinet.net.au...
> What would the experts here recommend for an appliance (in this case an
> iron) that draws too much current and trips our main circuit breaker? I'm
> sick of it turning off my computer when I'm in the middle of something or
> (more importantly) my stereo when I'm in the middle of listening.
>
> Putting it on a separate circuit is not an option (too expensive).
> Replacing the iron is not an option (done that twice already, different
> models each time).
>
> So? Would a dse surge protector make any difference?
**None whatsoever.
If not what do I need?
**A new circuit or a bigger (higher current) circuit breaker. This is not
something I would suggest without expert advice. Your home must pitifully
equipped for such an event to occur.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Fred
"Adam F" <asfletc...@uts.edu.au> wrote in message
news:3fa6d202$0$1724$5a62...@freenews.iinet.net.au...
> iron) that draws too much current and trips our main circuit breaker? I'm
> sick of it turning off my computer when I'm in the middle of something or
> (more importantly) my stereo when I'm in the middle of listening.
>
> Putting it on a separate circuit is not an option (too expensive).
> Replacing the iron is not an option (done that twice already, different
> models each time).
>
> So? Would a dse surge protector make any difference? If not what do I
need?
>
> Thanks,
> Adam F
When you say "main circuit breaker", perhaps the iron is actually tripping
your "safety switch" or Earth Leakage unit. There are usually many circuit
breakers fitted in a switcboard. One for each circuit in the house. I find
it hard to believe that a domestic clothes iron would trip a 20A (sometimes
16A) breaker on its own, but it is far more likely to trip an earth leakage
breaker. If this is the case, and as you've tried several irons, call an
electrician as you have a problem with wiring.
Fred
"1210" <remember...@hogmail.com> wrote in message
news:3fa63398$0$29426$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> You sir are a supreme fuckwit.
Actually, it appears you are the fuckwit, as TW is totally right. No plug-in
surge protector on the market will provide protection against an inrush at
33kV. We're talking fault currents over 10kA in this case and your surge
arrestor would be fried alongside everyhting else plugged in.
Fred
"Oat" <cyber...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:4462f9b2.0311...@posting.google.com...
> Trevor Wilson,
>
> You sir, are an retailer I hope never to have any dealing with.
Is that because he is offering no-nonsense sane advice. These "surgeboards"
are a complete waste of money. If you want real protection against this type
of problem, it has to at the switcboard and capable of dumping huge amounts
of energy to earth. Nothing that plugs into a GPO can do this.
Rob
Actually both you and he are wrong. The surge protector forms a part of
the circuit, the 33kv isn't directly across the MOV or gas discharge
spark arrestor, there are wires and primary protection devices in
series.
So unlike your speculation my experience indicates that they do in fact
serve a purpose which is to shunt the worst of the spike until the
primary protection devices act.
My property was connected directly to the power pole across which the
33kv lines fell. The earth wiring in my property fused and the water
mains in the street were punctured however all my audio and computer
equipment survived. Yes I had to replace some internal equipment fuses
however no equipment apart from the surge protection devices suffered
any significant problems. Most of my neighbours (without secondary
protection) weren't so lucky.
When was the last time you had a 33kv line fall across your house mains?
Rob
Fred
There is far more to this subject than I really have time for. I can
understand the water supply pipes fracturing due to thermal effects (the
water in the pipes turned to steam) and the fusing of wiring etc. The
problems arising due to circumstamces such as yours cannot be ascertained
without a site visit because there are so many variables. In your particular
case your equipment survived but what of the damage to the rest of your
property? A different level of protection may have had the opposite effect.
You may have fried your domestic appliances but your house wiring would have
been intact. To adequately protect property against electrical surges
requires more than one device. I humbly suggest you read this:
http://www.schneider.com.au/Products/ElectricalDistribution/Protection_Isolation/Surge_arrestors.htm
My main point is that many here may think that a $50 surge arrestor will
provide adequate protection and this is incorrect.
Dale Stanbrough
You don't always want to dump it to earth. You can get ground loops
(i think that's the right terminology) where you get currents coming
back at other appliances.
Another website worth reading is...
who make stuff (that according to them) is much better. Any
qualified electronic engineers who can comment on this stuff?
Dale
larry
"Trevor Wilson" <tre...@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:3fa62b59$1...@news.comindico.com.au...
> > > **And you don't have to spam your crap to zillions of newsgroups.
Please
> > act
> > > responsibly in future.
> > > Trevor Wilson
> > > www.rageaudio.com.au
> >
> > hi trevor (number 2 trevor :-) you're coming out of the woodwork
now.....
> > yes i'm in perth.
>
> **Then don't spam a zillion groups. The boards _may_ provide _some_
limited
> use in Perth. That is about it.
>
> > well, one friend has a 3 of these, and when we had some electrical
> problems
> > a couple of months ago
> > he had 2 electrical items get 'fried' (and later fixed)
> > but none of the items on his boards were affected.
> > i thought that was a reasonable (albeit if limited) test of their
> > usefulness....
>
> **An extremely limited test.
>
> >
> > well they are cheaper than a ME amp....
>
> **So what? They perform a completely different (albeit, essentially
useless)
> task.
so 4 newgroups = a zillion ?
with your maths skills no wonder you don't do very well in business.....
I don't believe that the belkin surge boards protect against all types/sizes
of surges
but they do help, and there is the insurance policy...
I have friends who've had 'fried' Ht gear, but none, so far, that have been
using a good surge board..
They are not perfect protection, but if they do help somewhat then, in my
opinion they're worth it...
I was going to put in protection at the fuse board, but we have a large
house with 3 phase, with an industrial model board, and it would have been
very expensive to get surge protection to suit this model, as this model of
industrial board is about 9 years old...
I would'nt say the ME amps perform a useless task ?
I am sorry that ME has gone under, but I won't miss you posting about them
so often.....
laz
larry
"Fred" <noe...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:3fa6dd96$0$29422$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
I don't believe that the belkin surge boards protect against all types/sizes
of surges
but they do help, and there is the insurance policy...
I have friends who've had 'fried' Ht gear, but none, so far, that have been
using a good surge board..
They are not perfect protection, but if they do help somewhat then, in my
opinion they're worth it...
if they were a complete waste then why do I know people who've had power
surges (and we do get a lot here in perth)
who've had protected gear be ok, but other gear in their house get 'fried' ?
I believe they provide SOME protection..... but not complete protection.....
I was going to put in protection at the fuse board, which I do believe is
better, but we have a large house with 3 phase, with an industrial model
board, and it would have been very expensive to get surge protection to suit
this model, as this model of industrial board is about 9 years old...
laz
Robby
"Dale Stanbrough" <MrNo...@bigpoop.net.au> wrote in message
news:MrNoSpam-02AB5D...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Robby
> dsta...@spam.o.matic.bigpond.net.au
larry
> protect against a 33kV fault on the line. Nor does it address any of my
> earlier points about the DSE unit as one which has proven and value for
> money attributes. Worse, this crap is being spammed to a multitude of
groups
> (witness the highly intellectual comments thus far).
>
> For the record, I do use a surge limiter (of my own design) on my
computer.
> It cost less than 8 Bucks. It uses 6 MOVs, 3 gas arrestors and a fuse.
I've
> never required it.
>
> Also and for the record: My household insurance policy covers all this
> stuff, anyway. Most do.
> www.rageaudio.com.au
>
-hello trevor
-if the average person makes their own surge protector and connects that to
the 240V mains, i don't think that is legal unless you are an electrician ?
-also if you ever have a fire due to a home made unit-does your insurance
cover that ?
-yes, i would agree that the parts inside a surge board are cheap...
-house insurance-yes you can claim, but wait to see how your policy premium
is affected in future years...
laz
Hugh Jorgen
--
Hugh Jorgen.
Phil Allison
"larry"
> -if the average person makes their own surge protector and connects that
to
> the 240V mains, i don't think that is legal unless you are an electrician
?
** Electricians are licensed to install and carry out repair work on the AC
cables in and around premises - that is all.
A plug in appliance is obviously not "installed" - but may be a
"prescribed item" meaning that a sample has to be approved by an authorised
test lab before going on sale. AC power boards and adaptors are examples of
this.
............ Phil
w_tom
proven and standard procedure since before WWII. Zerosurge is
selling a product. Therefore this plug-in protector
manufacturer forgets to mention many facts. Lightning seeks
earth ground. Miles of non-conductive air did not stop
lightning. Why is that silly Zerosurge product going to stop
what miles of air could not?
Zerosurge also forgot to mention a wire that completely
bypasses protection - the green safety ground wire. A
protection 'system' only using Zerosurge completely breaks
down without that green safety ground wire earthed at the
building entrance. Earthing is that critical Why? Surges
must be dumped into earth. Otherwise a surge will overwhelm
protection to obtain earth destructively via the appliance.
But this was already provided in that previously cited
discussion.
The concept is called single point earthing. Ground loops
will even be a problem inside a clone computer IF motherboard
and chassis plate have multiple ground interconnections. Same
applies to earth ground for a building's surge protection.
All incoming utilities must enter building at same location
and use the same, central earth ground. For many reasons
including the elimination of ground loops. Zerosurge forgot
to mention that as well. Figures from industry professionals
that demonstrate a proper installation:
http://www.xantrex.com/support/docserve.asp?id=337
http://www.cinergy.com/surge/ttip08.htm
and an example of two structures each with a single point
ground:
http://www.erico.com/erico_public/pdf/fep/TechNotes/Tncr002.pdf
Take many minutes to study that last figure. It too has many
important and often overlooked details. Things that
Zerosurge forgot to mention.
Surge protectors are simple science. Many are fooled into
making the same mistake (noted in previous post) that a
lightning rod or surge protector is protection. The
essential, critical, most important part of any protection
'system' is not seen and therefore easily overlooked or
forgotten by a human. Surge protectors are simple science.
The 'art' of protection is earthing. That art for residential
protection was discussed in two threads in the newsgroup
misc.rural:
Storm and Lightning damage in the country 28 Jul 2002
Lightning Nightmares!! 10 Aug 2002
http://tinyurl.com/ghgv or http://tinyurl.com/ghgm
So much information as to probably not be understood on a
first reading. And yet the concepts were well understood and
universally practiced before WWII. Concepts are that long
proven. So well proven that surge damage is considered
directly traceable to human failure.
However when many depend on but a manufacturer for
information, then the consumer is easily confused with
nonsense about earth created problems. Series mode protectors
must forget many facts to sell their products as a single
solution.
The benchmark in surge protection is Polyphaser. They don't
discuss their products in application notes because Polyphaser
is also legendary for their technical honestly and accuracy.
Therefore Polyphaser discusses earthing - extensively. Why?
As noted in a previously cited discussion, surge protectors
are not surge protection. A surge protector is only as
effective as its connection to surge protection - earth
ground. The thing that Zerosurge would have you ignore. A
surge protector is only as effective as its earth ground,
which Zerosurge avoids mentioning.
Long before reading that Zerosurge stuff, one is better
advised to read Polyphaser application notes and the many
sources cited in these previous discussions:
Summary of surge protectors: http://tinyurl.com/l3m9
Technical details: http://tinyurl.com/p1rk
Art of earthing: http://tinyurl.com/ghgv
http://tinyurl.com/ghgm
One would then appreciate how accurate Fred was.
AndyPandy
>
> There is far more to this subject than I really have time for. I can
> understand the water supply pipes fracturing due to thermal effects (the
> water in the pipes turned to steam) and the fusing of wiring etc. The
> problems arising due to circumstamces such as yours cannot be ascertained
> without a site visit because there are so many variables. In your particular
> case your equipment survived but what of the damage to the rest of your
> property? A different level of protection may have had the opposite effect.
> You may have fried your domestic appliances but your house wiring would have
> been intact. To adequately protect property against electrical surges
> requires more than one device. I humbly suggest you read this:
>
> http://www.schneider.com.au/Products/ElectricalDistribution/Protection_Isolation/Surge_arrestors.htm
>
> My main point is that many here may think that a $50 surge arrestor will
> provide adequate protection and this is incorrect.
I have both a lightening arrestor on the main circuit board and
secondary surge protectors and spike protectors on my electronic
equipment. Are you saying I am wasting my money? What about a surge
protector on my phone line?
Rob
> There is far more to this subject than I really have time for.
Nor have I time to go into it on this forum (don't think that you have a
monopoly on knowledge in the area)
>I can
> understand the water supply pipes fracturing due to thermal effects (the
> water in the pipes turned to steam) and the fusing of wiring etc.
I fact that was not the case, the copper water pipes crossed over an old
disused cast iron gas main, the discharge between the pipes caused
rupture of the pipes.
> My main point is that many here may think that a $50 surge arrestor will
> provide adequate protection and this is incorrect.
There is no fool proof method of protection of course but many 50c MOVs
or strategically placed "surge boards" can reduce damage.
Rob
Trevor Wilson
>
> "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
> news:3fa6...@news.comindico.com.au...
> > **Fair enough, BUT that does not address my claim that the DSE unit
would
> > protect against a 33kV fault on the line. Nor does it address any of my
> > earlier points about the DSE unit as one which has proven and value for
> > money attributes. Worse, this crap is being spammed to a multitude of
> groups
> > (witness the highly intellectual comments thus far).
> >
> > For the record, I do use a surge limiter (of my own design) on my
> computer.
> > It cost less than 8 Bucks. It uses 6 MOVs, 3 gas arrestors and a fuse.
> I've
> > never required it.
> >
> > Also and for the record: My household insurance policy covers all this
> > stuff, anyway. Most do.
> > Trevor Wilson
> > www.rageaudio.com.au
> >
>
> -hello trevor
> -if the average person makes their own surge protector and connects that
to
> the 240V mains, i don't think that is legal unless you are an electrician
?
**Whether it is legal, or not is not the point. It would be foolish. I am
not advocating that people should build these sorts of things. I am saying
that they don't do much.
> -also if you ever have a fire due to a home made unit-does your insurance
> cover that ?
**Dunno.
> -yes, i would agree that the parts inside a surge board are cheap...
> -house insurance-yes you can claim, but wait to see how your policy
premium
> is affected in future years...
**It should remain unaffected.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Stranger
This meets all requirements to the newsgroup so quit trolling.
We do not care what has or hasnt happened to you in 30 years.
In your days maybe you may not have had powerful surge projectors, but
welcome to our time, when there are powerful ones around.
Gez, someone tries to help others by posting a special, and you start
nitpicking.
If you really want to be constructive go help someone out...
And dont reply saying "In 20-30 years I have never seen someone as rude as
you", because it only reflects that you still have a lot to learn, Old Jedi.
"Trevor Wilson" <tre...@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:3fa5...@news.comindico.com.au...
>
> "larry" <xm...@invalid.com> wrote in message
> news:3fa5ec5d$1...@quokka.wn.com.au...
> > hi,
> >
> > "Trevor Gensch" <trevorgensc...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in
message
> > news:_dlpb.592$_z4....@news.optus.net.au...
> > >
> > > "larry" <xm...@invalid.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3fa5dba6$1...@quokka.wn.com.au...
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/3fa5db4705147946273fc0a87f9c06e
> > > 1/Product/View/M7244
> > > >
> > > > I saw this in a local catalogue in case people are interested
> > >
> > > Thanks for the spam.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > i'm not spamming!
>
> **Yes, you are.
>
> > these are quite good surge protectors,
>
> **How do you know? Do you have independent tests, verifying their
qualities?
> BTW: I live in Sydney and in 30 years, I have not yet found any reason to
> require a surge protector. Where are you? Perth? Perth is the only
> Australian city where a surge protector _might_ (and that is a really big
> 'might') be of some use.
>
> I have 2 at home
> > and they have AV/coax inputs and phone inputs protected as well.
> > in the past when they were on special a lot of people with hometheatre
> > systems bought them...
>
> **Big whoop. Just because you wasted your money, you don't have try to
suck
> others into your own paranoid delusions.
>
> > you don't have to buy it...
>
> **And you don't have to spam your crap to zillions of newsgroups. Please
act
> responsibly in future.
>
>
> --
> Trevor Wilson
> www.rageaudio.com.au
>
>
Trevor Wilson
** >1 = a zillion. one post, one group. OK?
> with your maths skills no wonder you don't do very well in business.....
**You have no idea how I do in business.
>
> I don't believe that the belkin surge boards protect against all
types/sizes
> of surges
> but they do help, and there is the insurance policy...
**They _MIGHT_ help. Or not. Your insurance policy is unlikely to be
affected, one way or the other.
> I have friends who've had 'fried' Ht gear, but none, so far, that have
been
> using a good surge board..
**Not adequate proof, I'm afraid.
> They are not perfect protection, but if they do help somewhat then, in my
> opinion they're worth it...
**They _MIGHT_ help a bit. Or not. Their worth has yet to be shown or
proven.
>
> I was going to put in protection at the fuse board, but we have a large
> house with 3 phase, with an industrial model board, and it would have been
> very expensive to get surge protection to suit this model, as this model
of
> industrial board is about 9 years old...
**There is a good reason why industrial models are so expensive (though I
question that statement). They can be effective under certain conditions.
>
> I would'nt say the ME amps perform a useless task ?
**I did not say they did. Read your comments and my words.
>
> I am sorry that ME has gone under, but I won't miss you posting about them
> so often.....
**Don't speak too soon.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Tony Pearce
> > -yes, i would agree that the parts inside a surge board are cheap...
> > -house insurance-yes you can claim, but wait to see how your policy
> > premium is affected in future years...
> **It should remain unaffected.
Your company provides no no-claim discount?
Mine does.
TonyP.
Adam F
Yes, ok, so I estimated the retail price based on the cost from our supplier
as I work for a component importer. It really opens your eyes to the
rip-offs available at retail level when you work directly with the
manufacturers. And before anyone says it's because of freight and duty and
tax and so on, the actual costs of all the above when added to the stuff we
import averages 7%.
--
Hugh Jorgen.
Don't think anyone's questioning you really Hugh - we are the sort of geeks
who know full well that most products are aimed at the chronically
uninformed & priced accordingly.
Adam F
Trevor Wilson
"Tony Pearce" <To...@optus.net.com.au> wrote in message
news:3fa73d5f$0$29424$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
**Nope.
It does, however, charge about 50% of what the NRMA charges (I love
insurance brokers).
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Tony Pearce
> It does, however, charge about 50% of what the NRMA charges (I love
> insurance brokers).
Not me, I was just discussing this with a friend at the weekend. He told me
how his claim was rejected after his car caught fire because his broker had
not forwarded the premium. Apparently he did this with many other people
too, then declared himself bankrupt when they sued him. Isn't capitalism
wonderful!
I had a similar incident many years ago, only found out I wasn't covered
when I went to make a claim. Fortunately I was able to get my premium back,
and it was nearly as much as my claim. I haven't used a broker since.
TonyP.
Maysie
> About the same number as those who give a fcuk.
>
> In any case, those hardcore virgin nerds have probably already built
> themselves one using hookup wire and leftover vinyl pocket protectors.
>
- ROFL!!!!!!!!
Trevor Wilson
>
> "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
> news:3fa743d7$1...@news.comindico.com.au...
>
> > It does, however, charge about 50% of what the NRMA charges (I love
> > insurance brokers).
>
> Not me, I was just discussing this with a friend at the weekend. He told
me
> how his claim was rejected after his car caught fire because his broker
had
> not forwarded the premium. Apparently he did this with many other people
> too, then declared himself bankrupt when they sued him. Isn't capitalism
> wonderful!
**OUCH! Not only does my broker forward the policy (duly endorsed by the
company), but they also automatically renew for me, if I forget to post the
premium. They cover me for two months. I've been dealing with them for 25
years. Last year, I thought I should 'phone around for a better price (after
a significant premium hike). 5 'phone calls later, I quickly sent them my
cheque. They were considerably cheaper than the nearest quote. I've made
three claims against them, in that time and they've paid up promptly and
without problem.
>
> I had a similar incident many years ago, only found out I wasn't covered
> when I went to make a claim. Fortunately I was able to get my premium
back,
> and it was nearly as much as my claim. I haven't used a broker since.
**Fair enough.Perhaps I've been fortunate.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
WKC
are you going to share this fantastic insurance providers name with us?
Thanks,
WKC.
"Trevor Wilson" <tre...@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:3fa75d64$1...@news.comindico.com.au...
eug k
> "ruff" <roughplan...@optushome.no_spam.com.au> wrote in message
[....]
>> once Trev, it can still be both expensive & heart breaking, especially if
>> the gear is irreplaceable.
>
> **Fair enough, BUT that does not address my claim that the DSE unit would
> protect against a 33kV fault on the line. Nor does it address any of my
> earlier points about the DSE unit as one which has proven and value for
> money attributes. Worse, this crap is being spammed to a multitude of groups
> (witness the highly intellectual comments thus far).
>
> For the record, I do use a surge limiter (of my own design) on my computer.
> It cost less than 8 Bucks. It uses 6 MOVs, 3 gas arrestors and a fuse. I've
> never required it.
>
> Also and for the record: My household insurance policy covers all this
> stuff, anyway. Most do.
The one thing that insurance companies cannot replace is the data on your
computer. If the surge passes through your psu and to your hard drives,
bye bye data. And not all damaged hard drives can be recovered with a
board swap. :)
--
remov...@optushome.com.au is a valid email address. Don't remove anything!
1210
>
A fuckwit if I ever saw one.
I never will do business with you, cretin child.
1210
>
> "1210" <remember...@hogmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3fa63398$0$29426$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> > You sir are a supreme fuckwit.
>
> Actually, it appears you are the fuckwit, as TW is totally right. No
plug-in
> surge protector on the market will provide protection against an inrush at
> 33kV. We're talking fault currents over 10kA in this case and your surge
> arrestor would be fried alongside everyhting else plugged in.
>
>
And you have contradicted yourself in other posts.
Fucktwat
1210
> >
> > > > Trevor Wilson wrote:
> >
> > > > > **How do you know? Do you have independent tests, verifying their
> > > > > qualities? BTW: I live in Sydney and in 30 years, I have not yet
> > found any
> > > > > reason to require a surge protector. Where are you? Perth? Perth
is
> > the only
> > > > > Australian city where a surge protector _might_ (and that is a
> really
> > > > > big 'might') be of some use.
> >
> > > > years ago where an insulator on the 33kv mains failed and the 33kv
> line
> > > > cut across the 240v mains below with predictable results. I'm glad
> that
> > > > I was using surge protectors.
> >
> > > **No surge protector would save you, in such an incident. Not one you
> can
> > > buy from DSE, anyway. In 30 years, I have never needed a surge
> protector,
> > > here in Sydney. All they do is suck money away from the frightened.
> >
> > Hmmm.....well up until a few weeks ago I would have said the same thing,
> but
> > about 11:30 PM last Thursday week, we had a huge surge which shut down
the
> > power board & triggered the ELCB, but not before it reached the
Cleansine
> > protection unit into which my audio system is plugged.
> > I had it fixed in a couple of days, & the tech who built (and repaired)
it
> > said that it would have required at least 275 volts to take it out. As
the
> > audio system has it's own line from the power board (the idea was to
> > minimise noise from the fridge, freezer, washing machine etc.) I decided
> to
> > use the extra protection afforded by this unit ;
> >
> > http://www.alphalink.com.au/~gfs/cleansine/cleansin.htm
> >
> > and boy, I'm glad I did. Without the Cleansine unit, who knows what
damage
> > it might have done to my gear, which was the only electronic equipment
> > operating at the time (I was listening through phones). If it only
happens
> > once Trev, it can still be both expensive & heart breaking, especially
if
> > the gear is irreplaceable.
>
> **Fair enough, BUT that does not address my claim that the DSE unit would
> protect against a 33kV fault on the line. Nor does it address any of my
> earlier points about the DSE unit as one which has proven and value for
> money attributes. Worse, this crap is being spammed to a multitude of
groups
> (witness the highly intellectual comments thus far).
>
> For the record, I do use a surge limiter (of my own design) on my
computer.
> It cost less than 8 Bucks. It uses 6 MOVs, 3 gas arrestors and a fuse.
I've
> never required it.
Right you will be reported to the authorities.
Rod Speed
"Rob" <audiobA...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message news:3FA6E32E...@ozemail.com.au...
> Fred wrote:
> >
> > "1210" <remember...@hogmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:3fa63398$0$29426$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> > > You sir are a supreme fuckwit.
> >
> > Actually, it appears you are the fuckwit, as TW is totally right. No plug-in
> > surge protector on the market will provide protection against an inrush at
> > 33kV. We're talking fault currents over 10kA in this case and your surge
> > arrestor would be fried alongside everyhting else plugged in.
>
> the circuit, the 33kv isn't directly across the MOV or gas discharge
> spark arrestor, there are wires and primary protection devices in
> series.
>
> So unlike your speculation my experience indicates that they do in fact
> serve a purpose which is to shunt the worst of the spike until the
> primary protection devices act.
>
> My property was connected directly to the power pole across which the
> 33kv lines fell. The earth wiring in my property fused and the water
> mains in the street were punctured however all my audio and computer
> equipment survived.
And you dont know that you wouldnt have got the
same result with no addon surge protector at all.
> Yes I had to replace some internal equipment fuses however
> no equipment apart from the surge protection devices suffered
> any significant problems. Most of my neighbours (without
> secondary protection) weren't so lucky.
Easy to claim.
> When was the last time you had a 33kv line fall across your house mains?
Its so rare an event that it makes a hell of a lot more
sense to make sure that your insurance covers it.
Rod Speed
"AndyPandy" <pandoraa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:2ec733d0.03110...@posting.google.com...
Yes, very likely you are.
> What about a surge protector on my phone line?
In spades with that.
Rod Speed
Rob <audiobA...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in
message news:3FA730C3...@ozemail.com.au...
> Fred wrote
>> My main point is that many here may think that a $50 surge
>> arrestor will provide adequate protection and this is incorrect.
> There is no fool proof method of protection of course but many 50c
> MOVs or strategically placed "surge boards" can reduce damage.
Bullshit with 33KV on the mains.
Rod Speed
"ruff" <roughplan...@optushome.no_spam.com.au> wrote in message news:3fa63843$0$29423$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
> news:3fa6...@news.comindico.com.au...
>
>
> > > Trevor Wilson wrote:
>
> > > > **How do you know? Do you have independent tests, verifying their
> > > > qualities? BTW: I live in Sydney and in 30 years, I have not yet
> found any
> > > > reason to require a surge protector. Where are you? Perth? Perth is
> the only
> > > > Australian city where a surge protector _might_ (and that is a really
> > > > big 'might') be of some use.
>
> > > You are located only a few blocks away from an little incident a few
> > > years ago where an insulator on the 33kv mains failed and the 33kv line
> > > cut across the 240v mains below with predictable results. I'm glad that
> > > I was using surge protectors.
>
> > **No surge protector would save you, in such an incident. Not one you can
> > buy from DSE, anyway. In 30 years, I have never needed a surge protector,
> > here in Sydney. All they do is suck money away from the frightened.
> Hmmm.....well up until a few weeks ago I would have said the same thing,
> but about 11:30 PM last Thursday week, we had a huge surge which shut
> down the power board & triggered the ELCB, but not before it reached
> the Cleansine protection unit into which my audio system is plugged.
And you have no way of knowing if that was any benefit at all.
> I had it fixed in a couple of days, & the tech who built (and repaired)
> it said that it would have required at least 275 volts to take it out.
Mindlessly superficial.
> As the audio system has it's own line from the power board (the idea
> was to minimise noise from the fridge, freezer, washing machine etc.)
> I decided to use the extra protection afforded by this unit ;
> http://www.alphalink.com.au/~gfs/cleansine/cleansin.htm
> and boy, I'm glad I did.
You have absolutely no way of knowing if that was any benefit at all.
> Without the Cleansine unit, who knows
> what damage it might have done to my gear,
Very likely you would have got an identical result without it.
> which was the only electronic equipment operating at the time
Completely irrelevant.
> (I was listening through phones). If it only happens
> once Trev, it can still be both expensive & heart
> breaking, especially if the gear is irreplaceable.
And you can still get that result with an addon surge protector.
Rod Speed
"larry" <xm...@invalid.com> wrote in message news:3fa70c9f$1...@quokka.wn.com.au...
>
> "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
> news:3fa6...@news.comindico.com.au...
> > **Fair enough, BUT that does not address my claim that the DSE unit would
> > protect against a 33kV fault on the line. Nor does it address any of my
> > earlier points about the DSE unit as one which has proven and value for
> > money attributes. Worse, this crap is being spammed to a multitude of
> groups
> > (witness the highly intellectual comments thus far).
> >
> > For the record, I do use a surge limiter (of my own design) on my
> computer.
> > It cost less than 8 Bucks. It uses 6 MOVs, 3 gas arrestors and a fuse.
> I've
> > never required it.
> >
> > Also and for the record: My household insurance policy covers all this
> > stuff, anyway. Most do.
> -if the average person makes their own surge protector and connects that
> to the 240V mains, i don't think that is legal unless you are an electrician ?
Its perfectly legal in all states except Qld as long as its a plug in device.
> -also if you ever have a fire due to a home
> made unit-does your insurance cover that ?
Yep.
> -yes, i would agree that the parts inside a surge board are cheap...
> -house insurance-yes you can claim, but wait to see
> how your policy premium is affected in future years...
Doesnt matter for the extremely rare event of
a 33KV line dropping across the 240/415 lines.
Rod Speed
"Phil Allison" <phila...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message news:3fa70ffb$0$29715$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
> "larry"
>
>
> > -if the average person makes their own surge protector and connects that
> to
> > the 240V mains, i don't think that is legal unless you are an electrician
> ?
>
>
> ** Electricians are licensed to install and carry out repair work on the AC
> cables in and around premises - that is all.
>
> A plug in appliance is obviously not "installed" - but may be a
> "prescribed item" meaning that a sample has to be approved by an authorised
> test lab before going on sale.
Completely irrelevant if its not sold, stupid.
Rod Speed
"eug k" <remov...@optushome.com.au> wrote in message news:bo887u$3dm$1...@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au...
> In aus.ads.forsale.computers.new Trevor Wilson <tre...@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
> > "ruff" <roughplan...@optushome.no_spam.com.au> wrote in message
> [....]
>
> >> once Trev, it can still be both expensive & heart breaking, especially if
> >> the gear is irreplaceable.
> >
> > **Fair enough, BUT that does not address my claim that the DSE unit would
> > protect against a 33kV fault on the line. Nor does it address any of my
> > earlier points about the DSE unit as one which has proven and value for
> > money attributes. Worse, this crap is being spammed to a multitude of groups
> > (witness the highly intellectual comments thus far).
> >
> > For the record, I do use a surge limiter (of my own design) on my computer.
> > It cost less than 8 Bucks. It uses 6 MOVs, 3 gas arrestors and a fuse. I've
> > never required it.
> >
> > Also and for the record: My household insurance policy covers all this
> > stuff, anyway. Most do.
> The one thing that insurance companies
> cannot replace is the data on your computer.
Anyone with any sense backs that up anyway. Hard drives die.
Systems get stolen, houses burn down, get flooded etc.
> If the surge passes through your psu and to your hard
> drives, bye bye data. And not all damaged hard drives
> can be recovered with a board swap. :)
Which is why anyone with any sense backs
up anything that is irreplaceable, stupid.
Rod Speed
"1210" <remember...@hogmail.com> wrote in message news:3fa80eef$0$3789$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Who will just laugh in your silly little face, just like everyone else does.
Adam F
lightbulbs tend to blow rather more regularly than is usually considered
propitious too
bloody cost-cutting builders
one day I might be able to save up enough for an hour of an electrician's
time...
adam f
"Fred" <noe...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:3fa6db9c$0$29423$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
If this is the case, and as you've tried several irons, call an
> electrician as you have a problem with wiring.
>
>
Rod Speed
"Fred" <noe...@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:3fa6dd96$0$29422$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
> "Oat" <cyber...@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:4462f9b2.0311...@posting.google.com...
> > Trevor Wilson,
> >
> > You sir, are an retailer I hope never to have any dealing with.
>
> Is that because he is offering no-nonsense sane advice. These "surgeboards"
> are a complete waste of money. If you want real protection against this type
> of problem, it has to at the switcboard and capable of dumping huge amounts
> of energy to earth.
And even one of those wont help you if 33KV
ends up on the 240V lines for any length of time.
> Nothing that plugs into a GPO can do this.
And a decent insurance policy will pay for whatever damage occurs.
Rod Speed
"Dale Stanbrough" <MrNo...@bigpoop.net.au> wrote in message news:MrNoSpam-02AB5D...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Fred wrote:
>
> > "Oat" <cyber...@excite.com> wrote in message
> > news:4462f9b2.0311...@posting.google.com...
> > > Trevor Wilson,
> > >
> > > You sir, are an retailer I hope never to have any dealing with.
> >
> > Is that because he is offering no-nonsense sane advice. These "surgeboards"
> > are a complete waste of money. If you want real protection against this type
> > of problem, it has to at the switcboard and capable of dumping huge amounts
> You don't always want to dump it to earth. You can
> get ground loops (i think that's the right terminology)
Nope.
> where you get currents coming back at other appliances.
> Another website worth reading is...
Nope.
> who make stuff (that according to them) is much better. Any
> qualified electronic engineers who can comment on this stuff?
It misses the point utterly with domestic situations where
ensuring that the insurance covers it makes a hell of a lot
more sense and if you are in a lightning prone area, just
unplug electronic devices when a storm approaches so
you dont have to bother claiming on your insurance.
Rod Speed
w_tom <w_t...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3FA71CD4...@hotmail.com...
> Fred was absolutely correct. He posted what has been
> well proven and standard procedure since before WWII.
Pity we didnt even have any semiconductors then, moron.
> Zerosurge is selling a product. Therefore this
> plug-in protector manufacturer forgets to mention
> many facts. Lightning seeks earth ground.
Pity we happened to be discussing surges on the mains.
> Miles of non-conductive air did not stop lightning.
> Why is that silly Zerosurge product going to stop
> what miles of air could not?
They can help with SURGES ON THE MAINS.
The reason that addon surge protectors are mostly
a waste of money is because properly designed
ELECTRONIC DEVICES have the MOVs etc inside already.
> Zerosurge also forgot to mention a wire that completely
> bypasses protection - the green safety ground wire.
Complete and utter drivel WITH SURGES ON THE MAINS.
> A protection 'system' only using Zerosurge
> completely breaks down without that green
> safety ground wire earthed at the building entrance.
Which all MENS installations in Australia have anyway, moron.
So stupid that it cant even manage to grasp that
the way we do our mains distribution systems is
quite different to the way its done in the US.
> Earthing is that critical Why?
> Surges must be dumped into earth.
Even someone as stupid as you must have
noticed the mains earth all our GPOs have.
> Otherwise a surge will overwhelm protection
> to obtain earth destructively via the appliance.
More pig ignorant drivel with the Australian system.
Reams of your repeated spewing of completely
irrelevant drivel flushed where it belongs.
The Gadget Shop
> No plug-in surge protector on the market will provide
> protection against an inrush at 33kV.
> We're talking fault currents over 10kA
The Belkin mentioned is rated at 39kA, 1544J?
Cheers, Jason (remove === to reply)
Macrovision disablers
http://gadgets.shorturl.com
The Gadget Shop
Rod Speed
> http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/3fa5db4705147946273fc0a87f9c06e1/Product/View/M7244
You have to manually edit that back to
http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/en/product/M7244
for it to work, just drop the long hashed number and replace it with en
> I saw this in a local catalogue in case people are interested
Whats the details on the $80K protected equipment warranty ?
Rod Speed
Rod Speed <rod_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bo9ei0$1a960s$1...@ID-69072.news.uni-berlin.de...
> larry <xm...@invalid.com> wrote
>> http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/3fa5db4705147946273fc0a87f9c06e1/Product/View/M7244
> You have to manually edit that back to
> http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/en/product/M7244
> for it to work, just drop the long hashed number and replace it with en
>> I saw this in a local catalogue in case people are interested
> Whats the details on the $80K protected equipment warranty ?
Dont worry, its at http://www.belkin.com/support/cew/F5C695-DSS.pdf
Rod Speed
The Gadget Shop <gadgets@jc===.com.au> wrote in
message news:bo9da3$c2g$1...@merki.connect.com.au...
> Fred <noe...@nowhere.com> wrote
>> No plug-in surge protector on the market will
>> provide> protection against an inrush at 33kV.
>> We're talking fault currents over 10kA
> The Belkin mentioned is rated at 39kA, 1544J?
Wont necessarily be enough with 33KV
But its covered by the $80K insurance cover anyway.
Rod Speed
> Does larry even read specifications
> before wildly recommending something?
You obviously dont before spewing your drivel, yet again.
> It does not even claim to protect from destructive type of surges.
Obvious lie.
http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=&Section_Id=74&pcount=&Product_Id=20246
A thunderous strike of lightning flickers across the night's sky.
Your DSS and Digital TV cringe, as the storm looms ever closer,
wondering if this will be their last day. Of course not, they're
connected to a Belkin SurgeMaster® II. They are protected!
Protects your DSS receiver, home theater system, computer,
peripherals, and coax cable line from power surges. Boasting
a $50,000 connected equipment warranty, BlockSpaceT for large
AC adapters, 8 powered outlets, and 2 sets of gold coax connectors.
Reams of your lies flushed where there belong.
Rod Speed
Adam F <asfletc...@uts.edu.au> wrote in message
news:3fa6d202$0$1724$5a62...@freenews.iinet.net.au...
> What would the experts here recommend for an appliance (in this case
> an iron) that draws too much current and trips our main circuit breaker?
Most likely you have it on a circuit thats already got a decent
load on it since two different models trip the main breaker.
> I'm sick of it turning off my computer when I'm in the middle of something
> or (more importantly) my stereo when I'm in the middle of listening.
> Putting it on a separate circuit is not an option (too expensive).
> Replacing the iron is not an option (done that
> twice already, different models each time).
> So?
Work out what else is significantly loading the
circuit and dont use it at the same time as the iron.
You should be able to see what is the other significant load
by switching higher powered devices off while watching the
meter to see what is causing it to spin at a decent rate.
It could be faulty wiring too.
> Would a dse surge protector make any difference?
Nope.
> If not what do I need?
See above.
Vince
If you had important data, you would back it up. Do stop using Uni Q
bandwidth and go back to your studies kiddo !!
Rob
>
> > Yes I had to replace some internal equipment fuses however
> > no equipment apart from the surge protection devices suffered
> > any significant problems. Most of my neighbours (without
> > secondary protection) weren't so lucky.
>
> Easy to claim.
Well given that I ended up repairing quite a bit of the gear effected
I'd say I'd be in a far better position than you to judge.
> > When was the last time you had a 33kv line fall across your house mains?
>
> Its so rare an event that it makes a hell of a lot more
> sense to make sure that your insurance covers it.
I'd rather attempt to protect (however foolish you think it might be) my
custom built electronics than rely upon insurance.
Rob
Richard Freeman
"Adam F" <asfletc...@uts.edu.au> wrote in message
news:3fa6d202$0$1724$5a62...@freenews.iinet.net.au...
> What would the experts here recommend for an appliance (in this case an
> sick of it turning off my computer when I'm in the middle of something or
> (more importantly) my stereo when I'm in the middle of listening.
>
> Putting it on a separate circuit is not an option (too expensive).
> Replacing the iron is not an option (done that twice already, different
> models each time).
>
need?
Which breaker does it trip ???? the ELCBR ?
if so your house may have a wiring problem.......
Rod Speed
Rob <audiobA...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in
message news:3FA84C3A...@ozemail.com.au...
> Rod Speed wrote:
>> Rob <audiobA...@ozemail.com.au> wrote
>>> Yes I had to replace some internal equipment fuses
>>> however no equipment apart from the surge protection
>>> devices suffered any significant problems. Most of my
>>> neighbours (without secondary protection) weren't so lucky.
>> Easy to claim.
> Well given that I ended up repairing quite a bit of the gear
> effected I'd say I'd be in a far better position than you to judge.
And you'd be wrong. You have absolutely
NO idea about what damage you would have
suffered without it. It may well have been identical.
>>> When was the last time you had a 33kv line fall across your house mains?
>> Its so rare an event that it makes a hell of a lot more
>> sense to make sure that your insurance covers it.
> I'd rather attempt to protect (however foolish you think it
> might be) my custom built electronics than rely upon insurance.
Your problem.
Richard Freeman
protection' and he leaped to add his own fallacies and hearsay to the
discussion.
A number of questions before we begin though tom ( a collection of question
he has avoided in the past) :
Tell me the fairy tale again about how Lightning is a 'Low energy event'
Identify the 'direct connection between AC mains and the Integrated circuits
in a modern modem' for me.
explain how 0.6mm diameter single strand copper wire has a lower impedance
than 2.5mm square multistrand copper wire and therefore provides a better
earth.
"w_tom" <w_t...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3FA71CD4...@hotmail.com...
> Fred was absolutely correct. He posted what has been well
> proven and standard procedure since before WWII.
Oh yes this reminds me of another question tell me again when practical Movs
were developed and marketed?
> Zerosurge is
> selling a product. Therefore this plug-in protector
> manufacturer forgets to mention many facts. Lightning seeks
> earth ground. Miles of non-conductive air did not stop
> lightning. Why is that silly Zerosurge product going to stop
> what miles of air could not?
they probably work about as well as a 1KJ MOV installed in the switchboard
> Zerosurge also forgot to mention a wire that completely
> bypasses protection - the green safety ground wire. A
> protection 'system' only using Zerosurge completely breaks
> down without that green safety ground wire earthed at the
> building entrance. Earthing is that critical Why? Surges
> must be dumped into earth. Otherwise a surge will overwhelm
> protection to obtain earth destructively via the appliance.
> But this was already provided in that previously cited
> discussion.
well lets apply a bit of thought to this statement :
Q ) how do you minimise the potential difference across equipment plugged
into a power point ?
A ) make it common mode - ie common to Active, Neutral and Earth this way
there is no potential difference from a Lightning strike across any of the
sensitive Electronics inside the equipment.
> The concept is called single point earthing.
Single point earthing in actuality has nothing to do with shunting current
to earth - as the EPR on a single earth stake will rise to over 100KV in the
event of an earth strike but really has lots to do with making any surge or
Lightning strike a common mode event - if this is so critical (and believe
me it is ) then a any surge arrestor that makes it common mode is going to
be as effective as any other.
now think about a central (switchboard ) surge arrestor in the milliseconds
before it evaporates ...
consider a direct or vey near strike say on the other side of the house to
where your switchboard is
contrary to any bodgy theories about the low energy nature of lightning this
will generate thousands of amps of current.
this current will induce more current flow in the house wiring
this current flow will be safely shunted to earth ? how ?
> Ground loops
> will even be a problem inside a clone computer IF motherboard
> and chassis plate have multiple ground interconnections. Same
> applies to earth ground for a building's surge protection.
> All incoming utilities must enter building at same location
> and use the same, central earth ground. For many reasons
> including the elimination of ground loops. Zerosurge forgot
> to mention that as well.
Because powerpoint connected surge arrestors work by reducing the surge to
common mode at the power lead (and hopefully the equipment itself)
> Figures from industry professionals
> that demonstrate a proper installation:
> http://www.xantrex.com/support/docserve.asp?id=337
> http://www.cinergy.com/surge/ttip08.htm
> and an example of two structures each with a single point
> ground:
>
> http://www.erico.com/erico_public/pdf/fep/TechNotes/Tncr002.pdf
>
> Take many minutes to study that last figure. It too has many
> important and often overlooked details. Things that
> Zerosurge forgot to mention.
such as a very elaborate earthing system (to reduce EPR) spread over a large
area of land and costing quite a few dollars - in fact effectively
impractical for most domestic installations
> Surge protectors are simple science. Many are fooled into
> making the same mistake (noted in previous post) that a
> lightning rod or surge protector is protection. The
> essential, critical, most important part of any protection
> 'system' is not seen and therefore easily overlooked or
> forgotten by a human. Surge protectors are simple science.
> The 'art' of protection is earthing.
And for most intents and purposes the elaborate earthing has already been
done for us by the electricity authoity with the MEN electrical system this
results in an electrical distribution system that is to most intents and
purposes as close to immune from Lightning as it is possible to get.
Of far greater concern is Lightning damage from Sources that are not
directly connected to the MEN distribution system ( and therefore are not
afforded the same level of protection) this includes (but is not limited to)
:
Phone and Data Lines (yep I have seen plenty of these blown to crap - often
at the same time as the movs that were supposed to provide protection)
TV aerials
Radio Aerials
speaker cables run for any appreciable distance
Alarm wiring
House wiring (I know this includes quite a lot but in the event of a near or
direct strike it will pick up quite a Potential difference)
> That art for residential
> protection was discussed in two threads in the newsgroup
> misc.rural:
> Storm and Lightning damage in the country 28 Jul 2002
> Lightning Nightmares!! 10 Aug 2002
> http://tinyurl.com/ghgv or http://tinyurl.com/ghgm
>
>
> So much information as to probably not be understood on a
> first reading. And yet the concepts were well understood and
> universally practiced before WWII. Concepts are that long
> proven. So well proven that surge damage is considered
> directly traceable to human failure.
only by w_tom who lives in fairy land ..... yes if we all lived in earthed
metal boxes then Lightning damage would be rather rarer than it is but the
costs of this kind of lifestyle far outweigh the costs of
replacing/repairing equipment on those rare occasions that Lightning does
call damage.
I call your attention to the diagram in
http://www.erico.com/erico_public/pdf/fep/TechNotes/Tncr002.pdf the
equipment in this installation would all be installed in metal chassis
mounted in metal racks all of which is very carefully earthed with thick low
impedance cable and yet Telco installations do still suffer Lightning
damage! usually it is confined to the LIs in the exchange and the path is in
via the Telecommunications cable then through the MOVs in the front end
until they evaporate then the next path to ground - still often across the
charred remains of the mov but enough damage os often caused to the board to
require its replacement.
> However when many depend on but a manufacturer for
> information, then the consumer is easily confused with
> nonsense about earth created problems. Series mode protectors
> must forget many facts to sell their products as a single
> solution.
just as w_tom needs to ignore or invent facts to support his assertations
> The benchmark in surge protection is Polyphaser. They don't
> discuss their products in application notes because Polyphaser
> is also legendary for their technical honestly and accuracy.
> Therefore Polyphaser discusses earthing - extensively. Why?
Because it gives them something else to blame when Lightning does cause
damage - they know that a good earthing system is to all intents and
purposes impractical for most domestic installations and also that most
professionals shrug it off as a fact of life.
> As noted in a previously cited discussion, surge protectors
> are not surge protection. A surge protector is only as
> effective as its connection to surge protection - earth
> ground.
NO WRONG a surge protector is only as good as its ability to reduce the
Voltage across the equipment it is protecting - a well known fact in the
power industry is that it is the potential difference across something that
causes Trouble. This is actually very simple to observe Watch birds sitting
on power lines - do the get electrocuted ? nope! Now introduce an earth to
that bird does it explode ? well depends on the potential difference
(voltage) across the bird as to wether it dies, burns or explodes. In the
same way any surge protector that makes any spike or surge common to the
circuitry in the equipment is effective surge protection.
In fact by tying a surge protector directly to earth you do start to have
problems with the amount of energy the surge protector
> The thing that Zerosurge would have you ignore. A
> surge protector is only as effective as its earth ground,
> which Zerosurge avoids mentioning.
And the ground and earthing you suggest is also effectively dodgy with an
EPR during a Lightning strike of 100KV or more....
> Long before reading that Zerosurge stuff, one is better
> advised to read Polyphaser application notes and the many
> sources cited in these previous discussions:
> Summary of surge protectors: http://tinyurl.com/l3m9
> Technical details: http://tinyurl.com/p1rk
> Art of earthing: http://tinyurl.com/ghgv
> http://tinyurl.com/ghgm
> One would then appreciate how accurate Fred was.
>
>
> Dale Stanbrough wrote:
> > You don't always want to dump it to earth. You can get ground loops
> > (i think that's the right terminology) where you get currents coming
> > back at other appliances.
Correct ! effective Lightning protection is more about keeping everything at
the same potential (voltage) than about attempting to dump, absorb or shunt
all the current to earth ( for the simple reason that in a direct strike
this is simply not going to happen I have seen plenty of smoked Movs to
illustrate this point )
> > Another website worth reading is...
> >
> > www.zerosurge.com
> >
> > who make stuff (that according to them) is much better. Any
> > qualified electronic engineers who can comment on this stuff?
well looks like similair sort of guff to other Surge protection sites ...
Adam F
> Work out what else is significantly loading the
> circuit and dont use it at the same time as the iron.
>
> You should be able to see what is the other significant load
> by switching higher powered devices off while watching the
> meter to see what is causing it to spin at a decent rate.
Could be the computer then...hmm
Adam F
Richard Freeman
> hi trevor,> news:3fa62b59$1...@news.comindico.com.au...
> > > > **And you don't have to spam your crap to zillions of newsgroups.
> Please
> > > act
> > > > responsibly in future.
> > > > Trevor Wilson
> > > > www.rageaudio.com.au
> > >
> > > hi trevor (number 2 trevor :-) you're coming out of the woodwork
> now.....
> > > yes i'm in perth.
> >
> > **Then don't spam a zillion groups. The boards _may_ provide _some_
> limited
> > use in Perth. That is about it.
> >
> > > well, one friend has a 3 of these, and when we had some electrical
> > problems
> > > a couple of months ago
> > > he had 2 electrical items get 'fried' (and later fixed)
> > > but none of the items on his boards were affected.
> > > i thought that was a reasonable (albeit if limited) test of their
> > > usefulness....
> >
> > **An extremely limited test.
> >
> > >
> > > well they are cheaper than a ME amp....
> >
> > **So what? They perform a completely different (albeit, essentially
> useless)
> > task.
>
> so 4 newgroups = a zillion ?
> with your maths skills no wonder you don't do very well in business.....
>
> I don't believe that the belkin surge boards protect against all
types/sizes
> of surges
> but they do help, and there is the insurance policy...
> I have friends who've had 'fried' Ht gear, but none, so far, that have
been
> using a good surge board..
I have seen plenty of gear fried even with surge protection usually the
surge protection is incinerated.
Richard Freeman
Oh I dont know a MOV might last ... say 3.6 nS before it explodes .....
Richard Freeman
"The Gadget Shop" <gadgets@jc===.com.au> wrote in message
news:bo9da3$c2g$1...@merki.connect.com.au...
> > No plug-in surge protector on the market will provide
> > protection against an inrush at 33kV.
> > We're talking fault currents over 10kA
>
> The Belkin mentioned is rated at 39kA, 1544J?
Yes Yes but keep reading the specs 39KA for how long ???
Richard Freeman
"1210" <remember...@hogmail.com> wrote in message
news:3fa80eef$0$3789$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
> >
> > **Fair enough, BUT that does not address my claim that the DSE unit
would
> > protect against a 33kV fault on the line. Nor does it address any of my
> > earlier points about the DSE unit as one which has proven and value for
> > money attributes. Worse, this crap is being spammed to a multitude of
> groups
> > (witness the highly intellectual comments thus far).
> >
> > For the record, I do use a surge limiter (of my own design) on my
> computer.
> > It cost less than 8 Bucks. It uses 6 MOVs, 3 gas arrestors and a fuse.
> I've
> > never required it.
>
> Right you will be reported to the authorities.
For ?????????????
Jimmy Dean
>http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/3fa5db4705147946273fc0a87f9c06e1/Product/View/M7244
>
>I saw this in a local catalogue in case people are interested
>
>laz
Belkin documentation is impressive as is their lifetime warranty
(which I've always had honoured). But I have bought a dozen or so
MasterCube surge guards over the past few years and always the green
light (= surge guard is OK) fades from a brightly lit to an unlit
condition over the course of a year. It's something to do with the
thermal fuse having taken surges. When the green light no longer
shows, the unit no longer offer surge protection and is supposed to no
longer pass power (never got to this stage yet).
As I say Belkin have always replaced the unit but I feel unconfortable
fronting up to the store time and time again. Last time I spoke to
Belkin techsupport they acknowledged the problem and said steps were
being taken to remove it.
No other surge protector I have bought has its OK light fade over time
like this - it is either clearly ON or OFF.
jd
Arpit
one absolutely enormous surges. Average spikes will gradually kill
them. Ive got a page you might like to read, by this guy called danial
rutter :
http://www.dansdata.com/sbs9.htm
I use a cheap kambrook surge protector from woolworths. my father
bought it for me, and its probably not doing anything. ( not designed
for computers, so has higher clampiing voltage etc. but my psu has
surge protection so im not THAT worried. ID get a belking cause they
have that warranty thing. then again, i dont want to unplug my
computer, havent done so for, oh, about 6 months. ( i had power
failures though.
w_tom
No wonder they can put some $0.10 components inside a $3
(retail) power strip and sell them for $20 and $50. What a
markup! What a profit margin! Amazing how a green light and
a warranty (provided without fine print) will convince some
people.
Let's take that green light as example. If light is
controlled by a thermal fuse, then it is completely lit or
completely extinguished. There is no fading to indicate a
failed fuse. Fuses quite obviously don't work that way.
Furthermore, surges do not blow fuses. Fuses take tens of
milliseconds to blow. Surge occur in tens of microseconds.
It would take something more than 300 consecutive surges
before that thermal fuse would even consider blowing. That
thermal fuse is for other conditions; completely different
from surges. That light will never indicate when internal
MOVs have degraded. In fact, the manufacturer does not even
make claims about that light that have been posted here.
As for a warranty, numerous examples of how well that
warranty is honored:
Newsman on 10 Sept 2002 in the newsgroup alt.video.ptv.tivo
entitled "SONY TiVo SVR-2000"
> I got a Belkin surge protector with phone line protection soley
> for Tivo purposes.
> Yet my Tivo's modem still failed. And the '$20,000 connected
> devices warranty' did not help me. I jumped through many hoops,
> including finding the original recept for the surge protector
> (just under a year old) and I sent my surge protector to Belkin
> paid for shipping), and was denied my warranty. They gave me a
> ton of crap, including that it was null and void b/c the Tivo
> was also connected to the coax line for cable (this was not
> mentioned as a thing in the warranty that can nullify it).
> Eventually it boiled down to a line in the warranty that said
> "Belkin at it's sole discretion can reject any claim for any
> reason".
Read the fine print; or did they forget to provide that
print? Suddenly the big buck warranty loses all value.
Important to promote half truths about that warranty and green
light since those who will recommend a Belkin protector
typically don't have the necessary technical background to see
through those half truths. Classic example is speculation of
what that green light and thermal fuse do - which directly
contradicts what engineers know. That Belkin is again
recommended based upon insufficient knowledge to see through
promoted deceit.
Want an effective surge protector? Two facts quickly
identify ineffective protectors: 1) No dedicated connection
less than 3 meters to earth ground. 2) Manufacturer avoids
all discussion about earthing. No earth ground means no
effective protection (which defines the Belkin). Why? A
surge protector is only as effective as its earth ground.
Warranty be damned.
Richard Freeman
> Technical naivety provides Belkin with excessive profits.
Geez what about blatent Technical Ignorance then ? w_tom must be filthy rich
by now
> No wonder they can put some $0.10 components inside a $3
> (retail) power strip and sell them for $20 and $50. What a
> markup! What a profit margin! Amazing how a green light and
> a warranty (provided without fine print) will convince some
> people.
>
> Let's take that green light as example. If light is
> controlled by a thermal fuse, then it is completely lit or
> completely extinguished. There is no fading to indicate a
> failed fuse. Fuses quite obviously don't work that way.
>
> Furthermore, surges do not blow fuses. Fuses take tens of
> milliseconds to blow.
Well as per usual w_tom has it wrong again Surges can and do blow fuses
however Spikes do not
> Surge occur in tens of microseconds.
more errors from w_tom a surge is an increase in voltage lasting for over
1/2 a cycle orIn Australia this is over 10mS (in the USA over 8.3mS ) well
over w_toms 10's of microseconds
> It would take something more than 300 consecutive surges
> before that thermal fuse
Thermal Fuse ? well w_tom again is showing his ignorance of electronics. A
thermal Fuse blows when Temprature gets too high these are used to stop
things(heaters, PowerTransformers etc) overheating and causing Fires they
are not designed to protect against over current although they often do have
an over current rating they are typically used well under this rating.
> would even consider blowing. That
> thermal fuse is for other conditions; completely different
> from surges. That light will never indicate when internal
> MOVs have degraded. In fact, the manufacturer does not even
> make claims about that light that have been posted here.
>
> As for a warranty, numerous examples of how well that
> warranty is honored:
> Newsman on 10 Sept 2002 in the newsgroup alt.video.ptv.tivo
> entitled "SONY TiVo SVR-2000"
> > I got a Belkin surge protector with phone line protection soley
> > for Tivo purposes.
> > Yet my Tivo's modem still failed. And the '$20,000 connected
> > devices warranty' did not help me. I jumped through many hoops,
> > including finding the original recept for the surge protector
> > (just under a year old) and I sent my surge protector to Belkin
> > paid for shipping), and was denied my warranty. They gave me a
> > ton of crap, including that it was null and void b/c the Tivo
> > was also connected to the coax line for cable (this was not
> > mentioned as a thing in the warranty that can nullify it).
> > Eventually it boiled down to a line in the warranty that said
> > "Belkin at it's sole discretion can reject any claim for any
> > reason".
>
> Read the fine print; or did they forget to provide that
> print? Suddenly the big buck warranty loses all value.
Fair enough though their point was that the lightning damage entered by
means other than the AC mains protected by their device ie the coax - or
does w_tom reckon that this has a far superior earth on it like the phone
lines ?
> Important to promote half truths about that warranty and green
> light since those who will recommend a Belkin protector
> typically don't have the necessary technical background to see
> through those half truths.
a bit like w_tom really ....
> Classic example is speculation of
> what that green light and thermal fuse do - which directly
> contradicts what engineers know.
Yep true we have already looked at w_toms ignorance in this area
> That Belkin is again
> recommended based upon insufficient knowledge to see through
> promoted deceit.
If it is any consolation though w_toms often touted 1KJ mov in the
switchboard would not have protected aginst Lightning entering via its most
common path - lines other than the AC mains
> Want an effective surge protector? Two facts quickly
> identify ineffective protectors: 1) No dedicated connection
> less than 3 meters to earth ground. 2) Manufacturer avoids
> all discussion about earthing. No earth ground means no
> effective protection (which defines the Belkin). Why? A
> surge protector is only as effective as its earth ground.
> Warranty be damned.
well fact of the matter is if you want to include say Lightning in the
equation (and most likely 33KV across your 240V mains) ineffective
protection includes most relatively low cost techniques - in fact at radio
transmitters etc they spend an absolute fortune on Lightning protection -
and this is mostly effective but Lightning damage does still occour.
Dale Stanbrough
> It misses the point utterly with domestic situations where
> ensuring that the insurance covers it makes a hell of a lot
> more sense and if you are in a lightning prone area, just
> unplug electronic devices when a storm approaches so
> you dont have to bother claiming on your insurance.
There's obviously a cost tradeoff, but in general I'ld prefer
not to have to make insurance claims - it's always a hassle.
Unplugging devices is also a hassle, and often impractical.
Certainly yoiu can't do it when you are not home, and I suspect
that most homes are not occupied for at least a 1/3 of each day.
Dale
The Gadget Shop
> > ton of crap, including that it was null and void b/c the Tivo
> > was also connected to the coax line for cable (this was not
> > mentioned as a thing in the warranty that can nullify it).
He should have gotten the Belkin model with coax in/outs! :)
Southern Flyer
"Richard Freeman" <deletem...@atps.net> wrote in message news:3fab8...@news.iprimus.com.au...
> >
> > As for a warranty, numerous examples of how well that
> > warranty is honored:
> > Newsman on 10 Sept 2002 in the newsgroup alt.video.ptv.tivo
> > entitled "SONY TiVo SVR-2000"
> > > I got a Belkin surge protector with phone line protection soley
> > > for Tivo purposes.
> > > Yet my Tivo's modem still failed. And the '$20,000 connected
> > > devices warranty' did not help me. I jumped through many hoops,
> > > including finding the original recept for the surge protector
> > > (just under a year old) and I sent my surge protector to Belkin
> > > paid for shipping), and was denied my warranty. They gave me a
> > > ton of crap, including that it was null and void b/c the Tivo
> > > was also connected to the coax line for cable (this was not
> > > mentioned as a thing in the warranty that can nullify it).
> > > Eventually it boiled down to a line in the warranty that said
> > > "Belkin at it's sole discretion can reject any claim for any
> > > reason".
> >
> > Read the fine print; or did they forget to provide that
> > print? Suddenly the big buck warranty loses all value.
>
> Fair enough though their point was that the lightning damage entered by
> means other than the AC mains protected by their device ie the coax - or
> does w_tom reckon that this has a far superior earth on it like the phone
> lines ?
>
Except that reads very much like all the mobile phones damaged by
condensation and are thus not covered. Sure they are damaged by condensation!
FWIW in the USA they just give you a new refurb phone 9 out of 10 unless it has
obvious physical damage to the case - none of that condensation rubbish. Just one
sucker should take a warranty refusal into a lab to have it inspected for condensation
damage, and hope the warranty people did not give it a good soak themselves!
You can be sure if there is an excuse not to pay, most manufacturers will find and
use it. Belkin would certainly not be alone on that one.
Rod Speed
Dale Stanbrough <MrNo...@bigpoop.net.au> wrote in message
news:MrNoSpam-B7E75F...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Rod Speed wrote:
>> It misses the point utterly with domestic situations where
>> ensuring that the insurance covers it makes a hell of a lot
>> more sense and if you are in a lightning prone area, just
>> unplug electronic devices when a storm approaches so
>> you dont have to bother claiming on your insurance.
> There's obviously a cost tradeoff, but in general I'ld prefer
> not to have to make insurance claims - it's always a hassle.
Trouble is that nothing affordible gives complete
protection in a domestic or small business situation.
> Unplugging devices is also a hassle, and often impractical.
Not that often at all in a residential situation. And that is ONLY
if you are in a lightning prone area. I dont bother at all myself.
> Certainly yoiu can't do it when you are not home, and I suspect
> that most homes are not occupied for at least a 1/3 of each day.
Even you should be able to work out how to
unplug before leaving if you are that paranoid.
That Belkin board being discussed isnt a bad approach,
basically because if you do get a surge that it cant protect
against, you can always claim on the $80K insurance.
The main advantage with ensuring that the house insurance
covers it is that if the worst comes to the worst and you do
experience the very unlikely indeed possibility of a 33KV line
dropping onto a 240/415V line, or a direct lightning strike
or very close one on the mains etc, everything in the house
is covered, not just whats plugged into the Belkin board.
Rod Speed
> Technical naivety provides Belkin with excessive profits.
Or it does provide pretty cheap insurance and may
well be useful with badly designed devices that dont
have adequate internal surge protection as well.
> No wonder they can put some $0.10 components inside
> a $3 (retail) power strip and sell them for $20 and $50.
There's plenty of power strips that retail in that
range, most obviously with individual switches.
> What a markup! What a profit margin!
Wota pathetic little pig ignorant wanker!!
> Amazing how a green light and a
> warranty (provided without fine print)
Another lie. The fine print is on their web site
if you want to read it. And doesnt any gotchas.
> will convince some people.
Yep, those with a clue about the basics.
Which clearly counts fools like you out.
> Let's take that green light as example. If light is
> controlled by a thermal fuse, then it is completely lit
> orcompletely extinguished. There is no fading to indicate
> a failed fuse. Fuses quite obviously don't work that way.
Then it obviously aint thru a thermal fuse, fuckwit.
> Furthermore, surges do not blow fuses.
Wrong As always.
> Fuses take tens of milliseconds to blow. Surge occur
> in tens of microseconds. It would take something more
> than 300 consecutive surges before that thermal fuse
> would even consider blowing.
You're the one pig ignorantly rabitting on about thermal fuses.
> That thermal fuse is for other conditions;
> completely different from surges.
Wrong. As always.
> That light will never indicate when internal MOVs have degraded.
Wrong. As always.
> In fact, the manufacturer does not even make
> claims about that light that have been posted here.
What's been posted here is completely irrelevant, moron.
> As for a warranty, numerous examples of how well that
> warranty is honored:
> Newsman on 10 Sept 2002 in the newsgroup alt.video.ptv.tivo
> entitled "SONY TiVo SVR-2000"
> > I got a Belkin surge protector with phone line protection soley
> > for Tivo purposes.
> > Yet my Tivo's modem still failed. And the '$20,000 connected
> > devices warranty' did not help me. I jumped through many hoops,
> > including finding the original recept for the surge protector
> > (just under a year old) and I sent my surge protector to Belkin
> > paid for shipping), and was denied my warranty. They gave me a
> > ton of crap, including that it was null and void b/c the Tivo
> > was also connected to the coax line for cable (this was not
> > mentioned as a thing in the warranty that can nullify it).
> > Eventually it boiled down to a line in the warranty that said
> > "Belkin at it's sole discretion can reject any claim for any
> > reason".
Pity about our small claims system on that, moron.
> Read the fine print; or did they forget to provide that print?
Its on the web site, cretin.
> Suddenly the big buck warranty loses all value.
Wrong. As always.
> Important to promote half truths about that warranty
> and green light since those who will recommend a
> Belkin protector typically don't have the necessary
> technical background to see through those half truths.
You have never been able to manage a single technical detail, EVER.
You're so terminally stupid that you cant even manage
to grasp that there werent any semiconductors in use
pre WW2, or that that there werent any MOVs either.
> Classic example is speculation of what that
> green light and thermal fuse do - which directly
> contradicts what engineers know.
True of your terminal shit in spades.
> That Belkin is again recommended based upon
> insufficient knowledge to see through promoted deceit.
You have never ever had a clue about even the simplest stuff.
Reams of your respewed drivel flushed where it belongs.
Dale Stanbrough
> > Certainly yoiu can't do it when you are not home, and I suspect
> > that most homes are not occupied for at least a 1/3 of each day.
>
> Even you should be able to work out how to
> unplug before leaving if you are that paranoid.
I see diplomacy is not one of your strong points...
> That Belkin board being discussed isnt a bad approach,
> basically because if you do get a surge that it cant protect
> against, you can always claim on the $80K insurance.
>
> The main advantage with ensuring that the house insurance
> covers it is that if the worst comes to the worst and you do
> experience the very unlikely indeed possibility of a 33KV line
> dropping onto a 240/415V line, or a direct lightning strike
> or very close one on the mains etc, everything in the house
> is covered, not just whats plugged into the Belkin board.
I've got underground power, but it only goes to ground around
500 meters down the road. How far would a surge that you
describe travel? Would the houses being fed by the line
be able to soak up any of the nasty current before it go to me?
Dale
Hans
>
> I've got underground power, but it only goes to ground around
> 500 meters down the road. How far would a surge that you
> describe travel? Would the houses being fed by the line
> be able to soak up any of the nasty current before it go to me?
>
> Dale
Dale,
I had an event that fried an answering machine, with no overhead mains for
(guessing) 3km. So the surge . . .
1. Travelled 3km or so - or
2. came down the phone line - or
3. Hit a nearby electricity pillar box
The pillar boxes are usually dotted around the suburbs at about 3-400metres,
but I suspect that if it had been hit, there would also have been a power
outage, which there wasn't.
Cheers - Dad
--
Dads - needed for more than income.
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Dale Stanbrough <MrNo...@bigpoop.net.au> wrote
>>> Certainly yoiu can't do it when you are not home, and I suspect
>>> that most homes are not occupied for at least a 1/3 of each day.
>> Even you should be able to work out how to
>> unplug before leaving if you are that paranoid.
> I see diplomacy is not one of your strong points...
That for limp wristed fuckwits, stupid.
>> That Belkin board being discussed isnt a bad approach,
>> basically because if you do get a surge that it cant protect
>> against, you can always claim on the $80K insurance.
>> The main advantage with ensuring that the house insurance
>> covers it is that if the worst comes to the worst and you do
>> experience the very unlikely indeed possibility of a 33KV line
>> dropping onto a 240/415V line, or a direct lightning strike
>> or very close one on the mains etc, everything in the house
>> is covered, not just whats plugged into the Belkin board.
> I've got underground power,
I dont have underground power and done bother unplugging anything.
> but it only goes to ground around 500 meters down the road.
> How far would a surge that you describe travel?
The lightning strike would still produce a decent surge
if it struck where its above ground. But all decent electronic
devices have reasonable surge protection anyway.
> Would the houses being fed by the line be able to
> soak up any of the nasty current before it go to me?
It isnt current, its a voltage surge. And no, if someone
knocked a power pole down and you ended up with
33KV on one of the 240/415 lines until the power
company's system shut the voltage off, that would
significantly over voltage stuff in your house.
But that sort of event is so rare its best covered by insurance.
Just like the risk of one of Ansett's pieces of
shit dropping an engine thru your roof was too.
Dale Stanbrough
> Dale Stanbrough <MrNo...@bigpoop.net.au> wrote in message
> news:MrNoSpam-5D6812...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> > Rod Speed wrote
>
> >> Dale Stanbrough <MrNo...@bigpoop.net.au> wrote
>
> >>> Certainly yoiu can't do it when you are not home, and I suspect
> >>> that most homes are not occupied for at least a 1/3 of each day.
>
> >> Even you should be able to work out how to
> >> unplug before leaving if you are that paranoid.
>
> > I see diplomacy is not one of your strong points...
>
> That for limp wristed fuckwits, stupid.
*Plonk!*
Dale
Stu Jones
>>>> Dale Stanbrough <MrNo...@bigpoop.net.au> wrote
>>>>> Certainly yoiu can't do it when you are not home, and I suspect
>>>>> that most homes are not occupied for at least a 1/3 of each day.
>>>> Even you should be able to work out how to
>>>> unplug before leaving if you are that paranoid.
>>> I see diplomacy is not one of your strong points...
>> Thats for limp wristed fuckwits, stupid.
> *Plonk!*
Fat lot of good that will do you, wanker.