lifting cables off floor improves sound
Francis Xavier Holden
Well hung
By John Groom
August 2004
Psychobabble is a column to explore the twilight zone of hi-fi. That
strange place where the improbable meets the impossible, the fussy
meets the obsessional, and the physical meets the psychological.
Dear Craig,
I hope you don’t mind me writing to you through the Psychobabble
column. It is just that you have raised some issues through the
AudioEnz forum that have probably been asked by all of us audiophiles
at times. While I know that you are being tongue in cheek, I think it
maybe useful to take you seriously for a moment.
The central question you are asking is whether you are going crazy?
Specifically you are asking about your impression of the sound of your
system improving significantly when you raised the speaker cables off
the floor.
You certainly have gone to some trouble to raise your cables off the
floor, with a creation of wood and nylon. I don’t think that in itself
makes you crazy. To put it another way if the product was marketable,
then you would simply be part of a boutique industry that seems to
make quite a lot of money out of those of us who seek the Holy Grail
of perfect sound. People who do not seek this Holy Grail think we are
crazy in the sense of being odd, obsessional and some kind of geek.
This is just a matter of perspective. For example if, like Ed Hilary,
you have felt it necessary to have risked your life climbing the
tallest rock in the world, we don’t suggest you are crazy. It could be
argued that it is the same driven qualities that we bring out our own
hobby.
More importantly, you seem to be asking whether you can trust your own
perception that the sound has changed, your surprise that it has
changed so much, and why it has happened? It seems to be a comfort to
you that your wife can also hear the changes. The last argument is a
dangerous one in that just because we can find someone who agrees with
us does not make it right. The internet is living proof that the world
is full of people with some strange perspectives! There was a time of
course when it was self evident that the world was flat.
To take you out of your misery, I think you are one hundred percent
correct about the changes. I do wonder if it is to do with microphany,
ie, the vibration set-up around electrical circuits that is the curse
of so many amplifiers and CD players. This is one of the reasons that
a decent stand is important. All you have done is to create a ‘stand’
for the cables. I do not think that this is an obscure high-end
phenomenon either.
My own experiments suggest that the lifting process benefits
interconnects, speaker cables, mains cords and even the power supply
coming into the house! I have replicated the process all the way down
from my main system to the kitchen’s Pioneer stereo, on the satellite
computer speakers and even improved the sound of the bedroom ghetto
blaster by lifting its mains cable off the carpet.
What have I heard from this process? A lightening of the sound that
gives more ambiance, truer tonal accuracy, clearer bass lines and a
greater sense of life to the music. The magnitude of this change is
not subtle and can even be compared with the impact of the Naim Fraim
stand. It is simply one of the best free upgrades available.
..
F X Holden
Louis Solomon [SteelBytes]
> blaster by lifting its mains cable off the carpet.
I want some of them drugs too please :-)
--
Louis Solomon
www.steelbytes.com
Bob Saccamano
"Louis Solomon [SteelBytes]" <lo...@steelbytes.spam-is-bad.com> wrote in
message news:4185b6ad$0$21873$61ce...@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au...
> > ... and even improved the sound of the bedroom ghetto
> > blaster by lifting its mains cable off the carpet.
>
> I want some of them drugs too please :-)
>
You can have them. I *don't* want what he's having.
Phil Allison
"Francis Xavier Holden"
>
> Well hung
> By John Groom
>
> August 2004
>
> Psychobabble is a column to explore the twilight zone of hi-fi. That
> strange place where the improbable meets the impossible, the fussy
> meets the obsessional, and the physical meets the psychological.
>
> Dear Craig,
** That would be Craig Fenemor from Orange - ex Kiwi and former regular
poster on aus.hi-fi. He was very appreciative of my convincing him to try
damping his listening room with blankets, doonas etc for a trial - sent
me some jazz CD roms as thanks.
What a shame he moved over to MJ's audiophool forum and returned to his
former bad habits.
Addicts usually do relapse from time to time, I suppose.
............ Phil
Louis Solomon [SteelBytes]
>> > blaster by lifting its mains cable off the carpet.
>>
>> I want some of them drugs too please :-)
>>
>
> You can have them. I *don't* want what he's having.
well, as long as they wear off after a bit, such a strong reality distortion
could be quite fun :-)
but to be permanently that out of touch, no thanks
--
Louis Solomon
www.steelbytes.com
Arny Krueger
in message news:4185b6ad$0$21873$61ce...@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au
>> blaster by lifting its mains cable off the carpet.
>
> I want some of them drugs too please :-)
The basic *drug* is called: The non-level-matched, non-time-synched, sighted
evaluation.
TT
says "Remember the '60s" most don't.
Now if I'm right AM will be along any second with a humorous and insightful
anecdote ;-)
Regards TT
bassett
cables, so as when you Burn your speaker cables in, you will not scorch the
carpet.
Anyone would know, that is quite possible, by one of two ways that I know
of, but I would suspect the many esteemed members of this group, would
know many,many ways of doing it, levitation, is one way, and using "Sky"
hooks also works.
Unfortunately for me, all my cables are hard wired in the wall cavitates,
so no doubt that's why I,m missing out on the "highs" and some of the low
"Lows", but as they don't mark the lino, when I'm preparing them for use.
and the cat does not get tangled up, when he goes in the corner for a piss,
I really can't complain.
Thankfully I don't use "Monster" cables, so there is no chance of them
busting out of the wall, so they can levitate, and hang suspended
while they get 100% all round cooling
bassett
MDHJWH
posters second name and location in a public forum, do bother to
update your address book shit-head, It's out of date.
M & M A J A M
Phil Allison
"MDHJWH"
> "Phil Allison"
>>
>> ** That would be Craig Fenemor from Orange - ex Kiwi and former regular
>> poster on aus.hi-fi. He was very appreciative of my convincing him to
>> try
>> damping his listening room with blankets, doonas etc for a trial -
>> sent
>> me some jazz CD roms as thanks.
>>
>> What a shame he moved over to MJ's audiophool forum and returned to his
>> former bad habits.
>>
>> Addicts usually do relapse from time to time, I suppose.
>>
>
>
> Apart from the fact that it's none of your business giving out any
> posters second name and location in a public forum,
** How fucking asinine - he posted it himself with *every* post:
Craig F (cfen...@bigpond.com)
Date: 2002-11-14 01:30:04 PST
Alas out here in the hi-fi dessert of Orange I don't have one single person
that I can try it on. Do you have any references to articles about acoustic
memory that I might be able to hunt out at all?
Cheers,
Craig.
>do bother to update your address book shit-head, It's out of date.
** The ***shit head** is you - you mad bitch.
.............. Phil
MDHJWH
of those posts.
You should still update your addressbook and I still think you're a
shithead,
Kissy Kissy Ayn M
Phil Allison
"MDHJWH"
Phil Allison
>>
>> ** How fucking asinine - he posted it himself with *every* post:
>>
>>
> Phil darling, I do owe you an apology. He did attach his area in many
> of those posts.
** Did you see the email address ?????
Craig F (cfen...@bigpond.com)
"cfenemor" ???
Wonder what that "c" is for ?????????
> You should still update your addressbook
** Why ???
He was living in Orange when he posted here and I knew him.
So my post was correct in context.
The shithead is YOU - bitch face.
.............. Phil
MDHJWH
>
> The shithead is YOU - bitch face.
>
Robert Casey
> strange place where the improbable meets the impossible, the fussy
> meets the obsessional, and the physical meets the psychological.
In that light has anyone ever addressed the effect of the clothes
the listener is wearing on the sound of the music he is hearing?
It would seem obvious that one should wear a tux if listening to
classical music, or blue jeans if listening to country music.
Anyone research this?
:-)
Gerhard Beulke
wa2...@ix.netcom.com says...
I'm listening naked to Zappa and in my opinion this improved the sound
enormously!
;-)
--
Looking for a dream wedding?
http://www.palmcoveweddings.com/
TT
"Gerhard Beulke" <palm...@email.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1bf6906df...@News.individual.DE...
TT ;-)
MDHJWH
What utter nonsense! Everyone knows that the best listening attire for
all types of music is a wool nana blanket for maximum absorption with
matching knitted wool balaclava and NO GLASSES.
Pants should be loose flairs made of Sonex panels. Slippers must be of
fluffy wool.(no synthetics!)
All animals allowed into the sacred listening room must be of the
long-haired variety. I prefer Scots Collies but I hear that in NZ
sheep are the go.
Ayn Marx Manley "Steelhead" + J-Tone
+ S503 + DD12 (X2)
MDHJWH
>
> I'm listening naked to Zappa and in my opinion this improved the sound
> enormously!
>
No, get Zappa naked then lower the JMW onto the VPI
and.....................................
paul packer
> but I hear that in NZ
>sheep are the go.
For what?
bassett
a Mohair wig.
And I had BOTH my ears tuned last week , special.
I did hear a story about Sheep, I'm afraid they have no idea about sound
when it comes from Tower Speakers, they just don't get the full impact, But
if you want to discuss Alpaca's, there very good with Tower Speakers,
everything lines up, just fine.
And you get a matching pair of Socks and a Scarf for Winter.
And if you think this answer is bloody ridicules, your correct, But it's
better then the title of this thread.
bassett.
"MDHJWH" <mdh...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message In that
Phil Allison
"MDHJWH"
> My cables are lifted off the floor so I don't have to bend over &
> pick the bloody things up every time I vacuum. For this I use ceramic
> insulators designed to carry 22,000 volts of mains power .I'm not
> making this up you know. Shame we can't post JPEG's here, they look
> kind of sexy and often induce envy in fellow audiophools who appear to
> be able to hear a difference.
** You have a hi-fi installation than even Frankenstein would be proud to
own.
Just add ESL 989s and an electric chair to sit strapped into .....
.......... Phil
digita...@universaledition.com
>
>My cables are lifted off the floor so I don't have to bend over &
>pick the bloody things up every time I vacuum. For this I use ceramic
>insulators designed to carry 22,000 volts of mains power .I'm not
>making this up you know. Shame we can't post JPEG's here, they look
>kind of sexy and often induce envy in fellow audiophools who appear to
>be able to hear a difference. I can't hear any difference myself . Do
>you think they might be underspecified Dog's Breath dearest?
>
>Ayn Marx up in the air.
your listening room must look like shit.
if you can't hear it don't do it, otherwise do.
Robert Casey
>
> ** You have a hi-fi installation than even Frankenstein would be proud to
> own.
>
> Just add ESL 989s and an electric chair to sit strapped into .....
>
>
LOL.
MDHJWH
>
> your listening room must look like shit.
Why?
MDHJWH
>
> ** You have a hi-fi installation than even Frankenstein would be proud to
> own.
>
> Just add ESL 989s and an electric chair to sit strapped into .....
>
TT
And here's me thinking your sweet all over ;-) (blush)
TT
TT
Well by your description I imagined it to look like a Power Grid
Sub-Station.
But after regularly reading what you post I would doubt it very much. I do
believe that you would do it in such a way as it would exhibit good taste.
A picture would be beneficial to actually ascertain the true visual
appearance.
Regards TT "................" (still no phono stage)
Rod Crawford
reasons why it might have an effect. They relate to the faster transmission
of the electromagnetic fields in the dielectrics surrounding the conductors
(where the fields travel much more slowly) - see Dr Malcolm Hawksford
(Reader at Essex Uni) articles from 1985 (try putting "Essex Echo" in
Google).
Rod
(Dr) Rod Crawford
for Legend Acoustics
www.legendspeakers.com.au
"Francis Xavier Holden" <fxho...@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:mmbbo097qsvqqe0gq...@4ax.com...
> http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2004/psychobabble_wellhung.shtml
>
> Well hung
> By John Groom
>
> August 2004
>
> Psychobabble is a column to explore the twilight zone of hi-fi. That
> strange place where the improbable meets the impossible, the fussy
> meets the obsessional, and the physical meets the psychological.
>
> Dear Craig,
>
> I hope you don't mind me writing to you through the Psychobabble
> column. It is just that you have raised some issues through the
> AudioEnz forum that have probably been asked by all of us audiophiles
> at times. While I know that you are being tongue in cheek, I think it
> maybe useful to take you seriously for a moment.
>
> The central question you are asking is whether you are going crazy?
> Specifically you are asking about your impression of the sound of your
> system improving significantly when you raised the speaker cables off
> the floor.
>
> You certainly have gone to some trouble to raise your cables off the
> floor, with a creation of wood and nylon. I don't think that in itself
> makes you crazy. To put it another way if the product was marketable,
> then you would simply be part of a boutique industry that seems to
> make quite a lot of money out of those of us who seek the Holy Grail
> of perfect sound. People who do not seek this Holy Grail think we are
> crazy in the sense of being odd, obsessional and some kind of geek.
>
> This is just a matter of perspective. For example if, like Ed Hilary,
> you have felt it necessary to have risked your life climbing the
> tallest rock in the world, we don't suggest you are crazy. It could be
> argued that it is the same driven qualities that we bring out our own
> hobby.
>
> More importantly, you seem to be asking whether you can trust your own
> perception that the sound has changed, your surprise that it has
> changed so much, and why it has happened? It seems to be a comfort to
> you that your wife can also hear the changes. The last argument is a
> dangerous one in that just because we can find someone who agrees with
> us does not make it right. The internet is living proof that the world
> is full of people with some strange perspectives! There was a time of
> course when it was self evident that the world was flat.
>
> To take you out of your misery, I think you are one hundred percent
> correct about the changes. I do wonder if it is to do with microphany,
> ie, the vibration set-up around electrical circuits that is the curse
> of so many amplifiers and CD players. This is one of the reasons that
> a decent stand is important. All you have done is to create a 'stand'
> for the cables. I do not think that this is an obscure high-end
> phenomenon either.
>
> My own experiments suggest that the lifting process benefits
> interconnects, speaker cables, mains cords and even the power supply
> coming into the house! I have replicated the process all the way down
> from my main system to the kitchen's Pioneer stereo, on the satellite
> computer speakers and even improved the sound of the bedroom ghetto
> blaster by lifting its mains cable off the carpet.
>
> What have I heard from this process? A lightening of the sound that
> gives more ambiance, truer tonal accuracy, clearer bass lines and a
> greater sense of life to the music. The magnitude of this change is
> not subtle and can even be compared with the impact of the Naim Fraim
> stand. It is simply one of the best free upgrades available.
> ..
> F X Holden
MDHJWH
If you care to join AudioEnz forum you'll find one pet
TT
"MDHJWH" <mdh...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:808df0f8.04110...@posting.google.com...
> "TT" <swa...@geo.net.au> wrote in message
news:<418f52e0$0$21871$61ce...@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au>...
> > "MDHJWH" <mdh...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:808df0f8.04110...@posting.google.com...
> > > digita...@universaledition.com wrote in message
> > news:<j0qro0tcvkc2n56tv...@4ax.com>...
> > >
> > > >
> > > > your listening room must look like shit.
> > >
> > >
> > > Why?
> >
> > Well by your description I imagined it to look like a Power Grid
> > Sub-Station.
> >
> > But after regularly reading what you post I would doubt it very much. I
do
> > believe that you would do it in such a way as it would exhibit good
taste.
> > A picture would be beneficial to actually ascertain the true visual
> > appearance.
> >
> > Regards TT "................" (still no phono stage)
>
>
> If you care to join AudioEnz forum you'll find one pet
As much as I value your advice and many of your insightful observations I
will decline this particular piece of advice. Thanks all the same.
OTH if the moderator wasn't MJ then it would be quite appealing.
Regards TT
MDHJWH
> Actually Maxwell's fundamental electromagnetic equations give good physical
> reasons why it might have an effect. They relate to the faster transmission
> of the electromagnetic fields in the dielectrics surrounding the conductors
> (where the fields travel much more slowly) - see Dr Malcolm Hawksford
> (Reader at Essex Uni) articles from 1985 (try putting "Essex Echo" in
> Google).
>
Ayn Marx
Andrew Reilly
On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 07:26:41 +1100, Rod Crawford wrote:
> Actually Maxwell's fundamental electromagnetic equations give good physical
> reasons why it might have an effect. They relate to the faster transmission
> of the electromagnetic fields in the dielectrics surrounding the conductors
> (where the fields travel much more slowly) - see Dr Malcolm Hawksford
> (Reader at Essex Uni) articles from 1985 (try putting "Essex Echo" in
> Google).
Would that be this one?
THE ESSEX ECHO: MAXWELLIAN THEORY AND INTERCONNECT MEMORIES,
M.O.J.Hawksford, Hi-Fi News and Record Review, vol.30, no.7, pp.27-33,
August 1985
Reference found here:
http://www.essex.ac.uk/ese/research/audio_lab/malcolms_publications.html
Tragically, that particular paper seems to be one of the few that *aren't*
available for download from that page. Do you know of a direct on-line
reference? More to the point: do you remember any of the details or
conclusions?
I met Prof. Hawksford at the AES a week or so ago. He seemed to be a
pretty clued-in fellow. I have grave doubts that he would have written
papers to support the audibility of speaker cable elevation...
[Yes, obviously, if you run Maxwell across the topic of wires suspended
above surfaces of various sorts than there will indeed be "an effect" at
a mathematical level. Whether that effect has any significance whatsoever
for audio frequency speaker cable suspended above essentially
non-conductive wood or concrete or open space, over distance variations of
some small number of centimeters, over transmission lines a few meters
long is another thing entirely. I doubt it myself. The most significant
effect is almost certainly in the realm of the visual arts, and we all
know that that has a profound effect on listening experiences....]
Cheers,
--
Andrew
Bratislav
> Actually Maxwell's fundamental electromagnetic equations give good physical
> reasons why it might have an effect.
... and they will give you a good idea about the magnitude of the
differences we can expect. Say 1e-8 - 1e-10 or thereabouts (160 to
200dB down) ?
Now, try to hear this in a room with typical background noise of
30-40dB (and that is quiet as far as urban environment goes!), using
speakers with -60 to say -80 dB residuals (IF you are lucky to have
speaker this good !) using world's most unreliable testing tool (ears
& brain) and we should have a fairly good idea of what one should or
(should not) hear.
Of course, some people have golden ears ...
MDHJWH
>
> OTH if the moderator wasn't MJ then it would be quite appealing.
But darling, if you tickle MJ the right way you can get away with
almost anything ;~)
A M
Robert Casey
> Actually Maxwell's fundamental electromagnetic equations give good physical
> reasons why it might have an effect. They relate to the faster transmission
> of the electromagnetic fields in the dielectrics surrounding the conductors
> (where the fields travel much more slowly)
Only significant above 1 MegaHertz. Not for audio frequencies.
TT
Doh! I wish you hadn't said that because the image that is
in my mind right now is really going to wreck my afternoon.
Then before I drive home my car's seat covers will have to
go as well ;-)
Seriously now I don't want to get away with anything it's
just that he is a Richard Cranium.
TT
Tat Chan
> "TT" <swa...@geo.net.au> wrote in message news:<418f52e0$0$21871$61ce...@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au>...
>
>>
>>Well by your description I imagined it to look like a Power Grid
>>Sub-Station.
>>
>>But after regularly reading what you post I would doubt it very much. I do
>>believe that you would do it in such a way as it would exhibit good taste.
>>A picture would be beneficial to actually ascertain the true visual
>>appearance.
>>
>>Regards TT "................" (still no phono stage)
>
>
>
> If you care to join AudioEnz forum you'll find one pet
so you actually have to join the forum to read the posts?
Rod Crawford
It is part of the series G6-G9 towards the bottom of your link - "DOWNLOAD 4
Parts".
Malcolm does not specifically consider raising the cable above the floor but
does consider the effects of the dielectric surrounding the conductors to be
important even at audio frequencies. I was not saying whether lifting
cables so that the woollen carpet etc is replaced by air has any effect - I
have not tried it - only that in principle it might (unlike some other
whacky ideas like directionality of cables - as people rightly point out
music is AC).
Cheers
Rod
"Andrew Reilly" <andrew-...@areilly.bpc-users.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.11.09....@areilly.bpc-users.org...
Rod Crawford
Hi Ayn
It is like the 'skin effect' inside the conductors (and due to similar
causes) - it does become more important at higher frequencies. But Malcolm
shows that the skin effect can be important even at audio frequencies.
Rod
Rod Crawford
"Robert Casey" <wa2...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:vnYjd.5520$_J2....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Not sure - see my comments above - also link to Malcolm's paper(s).
Rod
Rod Crawford
"Bratislav" <bratis...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6b635c05.0411...@posting.google.com...
Not sure where you got the figures 1e-8 etc from??
MDHJWH
Recently someone here claimed it was possible to do so without
joining. I have no idea how this could be done. Are you scared to
join? It doesn't hurt.
A M
Bratislav
> Not sure where you got the figures 1e-8 etc from??
A rough guestimate based on changes in dielectric constant and conductor geometry.
If we limit spectrum to audio frequencies the differences will be even smaller.
D. Advocate
> Malcolm does not specifically consider raising the cable above the floor but
> does consider the effects of the dielectric surrounding the conductors to be
> important even at audio frequencies. I was not saying whether lifting
> cables so that the woollen carpet etc is replaced by air has any effect - I
> have not tried it - only that in principle it might (unlike some other
While it is theoretically plausible that the surrounding differences
in dielectric material would affect the cable properties in the audio
signal range, you would have to be talking about a rather vast
difference for it to have any practical effect, given the low signal
levels involved. Maybe if the floor or carpet in question was metal or
otherwise highly conductive, then you might possibly have an audible
effect by raising the cables but the only scenario this seems likely
would be on a ship.
MDHJWH
> Maybe if the floor or carpet in question was metal or
> otherwise highly conductive, then you might possibly have an audible
> effect by raising the cables but the only scenario this seems likely
> would be on a ship.
Although I've never been able to hear any improvements by raising
cables off the floor, I find myself wondering if the static
electricity in carpets made of synthetics such as nylon might just
have some effect on those vulnerable little electrons.
A M
Arny Krueger
There is *some effect* but it gets washed out by other things that happen at
the same time, like background noise levels on recordings and in the room.
Your speaker cables must be monstors, if you can't brush them aside with the
nozzle of the vacuum cleaner while sweeping.
paul packer
Get yourself a good set of headphones and you won't have to wonder.
TT
news:<2vb6ncF...@uni-berlin.de>...
> > MDHJWH wrote:
> >
> > > "TT" <swa...@geo.net.au> wrote in message
news:<418f52e0$0$21871$61ce...@news.syd.swiftdsl.com.au>..
Are you scared to
> join? It doesn't hurt.
>
> A M
I believe a frontal lobotomy doesn't hurt either ;-)
Hey Phil did yours hurt? I certainly hope so ;-)
Regards TT :-))
Rod Crawford
The static electricity will create a static electric field vertically
(perpendicular to the carpet) - a bit like the earth's gravitational field.
However, the effect is likely to be weak, perpendicular to the electron flow
along the wire and constant so I doubt whether you would hear any effect.
Rod
Rod Crawford
Could you give us an rough idea of how you obtained your guesstimate from
changes in the dieletric constant and conductor geometry?
Fraser Johnston
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
Fraser
TT
"Fraser Johnston" <fra...@jcis.com.au> wrote in message
news:2vj3rvF...@uni-berlin.de...
:
: "TT" <swa...@geo.net.au> wrote in message
:
Cheers ;-)