Clay Soil
mindseye
planting? Will sand break it up?
Cheryl
to add to clay soil too.
Cheryl - Merry Christmas
mindseye <mind...@higherlevel.com> wrote in message
news:7l266s4gnkg6u9fe4...@4ax.com...
lizr...@wantree.com.au
<mind...@higherlevel.com> wrote:
>Whats a good additive to a clay soil to break it up a bit before
>planting? Will sand break it up?
Gypsum to make it less sticky to work and then work in as much organic
matter as you can lay your hands on. Some sand will be a good addition
if you can get hold of it cheaply. Sharp river sand would be best.
There may of course be a lot of sand in the clay already as this is
where it comes from in the first place.
A leguminous cover crop can save a lot of backwork if you've got the
time. I'd tend to go for that as well as the gypsum. Give some soil a
wash to get rid of the fines and see if there is any course material
in it.
Best of luck! and ATB for the Christmas break, John Riley West Oz
Nancy A. Thornycroft
so huge as to make this impractical-cost wise) some sand would help, but
sandy-clay soil alone is usually infertile. Usually takes awhile to get the
soil right if it's mainly clay. Clay is a good thing but it needs all the
other components so that the plants can get their nutrients and water.
--
Nancy -nan...@tucker-usa.com
gardenlen
mind...@higherlevel.com wrote:
> Whats a good additive to a clay soil to break it up a bit before
> planting? Will sand break it up?
>
yes gypsum and add plenty of compost and keep the area heavily mulched,
get the worms working for you.
merry christmas
len
--
happy gardening
'it works for me it could work for you'
<http://www.globec.com.au/~ntbandit/>
"old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill"
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Bill Morgan
> Whats a good additive to a clay soil to break it up a bit before
> planting? Will sand break it up?
Sand will do just fine: but you need to use a lot. The best is coarse,
rough sand (e.g., builder's sand). Organic Matter (OM) is also a good
choice. Again, it takes a bunch, and you have to replace it over time. It
does however, greatly improve the soil's fertility.
Obviously, sand and OM together are a good way to go.
Clay is a good thing in the soil: it's a good source of micronutrients. My
previous garden was in clay soil, and very productive: especially after I
got all the OM added.
Regards,
Bill
--
Bill Morgan <wtmo...@pilot.msu.edu>
"Those who do not learn the lessons of science fiction are condemned to
live them."
Bill Morgan
<Darrell...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> I have ordered a dump truck full of Horse manure to add to mine. Sand
> without organic, just makes bricks.
This is an old myth. To improve clay with sand, you need to add *lots* of
sand, and quality sand to get the full benefit. I've gardened in sandy clay
before, and it is good soil. I still added organic material to improve it,
but it wasn't brick material before, or at least not any more than the clay
alone would have been.
Darrell...@mindspring.com
without organic, just makes bricks.
>In article <7l266s4gnkg6u9fe4...@4ax.com>,
>mind...@higherlevel.com wrote:
>
>> Whats a good additive to a clay soil to break it up a bit before
>> planting? Will sand break it up?
>previous garden was in clay soil, and very productive: especially after I
>got all the OM added.
>
Chris Garvey
: Whats a good additive to a clay soil to break it up a bit before
: planting? Will sand break it up?
Sand alone will NOT break up clay soils unless you are largely replacing
the clay soil with sand. IN this case you lose many of the advantages
of clay soil, namely its ability to retain nutrients and water. A source
of calcium will break up the clay. You can add lime, gypsum or dolomite
according to the pH of the soil. Organic matter will eventually break
up clay. Perhaps you should also consider some management practises
which help with drainage of clay soils particularly avoiding
cultivation.
my two cents worth
Chris
--
>:)(:<
"Use your x-ray vision.
See through me.
See that I am hollow."
julie a brien
First liberally apply Gypsum, dig up the soil and water in. Then add lots
of organic matter. Alternatively give up on the clay. Roughly dig it over
with gypsum. Then go and purchase good quality garden mix from the
landscape supply yard and build up raised beds (this is what I did).
Never ever dig a hole and just replace the soil with garden mix, when you
plant into this and water you are creating a mini dam and you will rot your
plant roots.
mindseye <mind...@higherlevel.com> wrote in message
news:7l266s4gnkg6u9fe4...@4ax.com...
Rev Chuck
>
> Hi
>
> First liberally apply Gypsum, dig up the soil and water in. Then add lots
> of organic matter. Alternatively give up on the clay. Roughly dig it over
> with gypsum. Then go and purchase good quality garden mix from the
> landscape supply yard and build up raised beds (this is what I did).
>
> Never ever dig a hole and just replace the soil with garden mix, when you
> plant into this and water you are creating a mini dam and you will rot your
> plant roots.
For similar reasons, when planting a tree, don't dig an oversized hole,
and don't ammend the fill dirt. Dig a hole _same size_ as the pot, place
the tree, tamp, and water. Add compost later, using it as a surface mulch.
dr-...@execpc.com
they say is to not dig a deeper hole and amend, but dig a wide hole, rough
up the surface roots and put some, but not much amendments into the soil to
get the roots growing out. But I agree about really bad soil. Cover it
up/build it up. I have planted tomatoes in bags of manure. Ingrid
Rev Chuck <cd...@erols.com> wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
dr-...@execpc.com in the Frozen Tundra zone 5 sorta
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
for care of goldfish go to http://puregold.aquaria.net/
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pam Sinclair
Rev Chuck wrote:
>
> For similar reasons, when planting a tree, don't dig an oversized hole,
> and don't ammend the fill dirt. Dig a hole _same size_ as the pot, place
> the tree, tamp, and water. Add compost later, using it as a surface mulch.
Times change. Most professional landscapers now recommend digging a planting hole
twices as wide and deep as the root ball and amending with upto 1/3 of the
backfill with compost or other OM. Replace the soil in the bottom of the hole to
the proper level, tamping down well, then plant the tree, backfilling to half the
depth of the planting hole with the extra soil. Water thoroughly, then fill with
soil to ground level. Wait until plant is established before applying fertilizer.
The theory is the slightly amended and loosened soil will encourage the tree
roots to spread horizontally, making it easier for them to establish into native
soil. If there are concerns about improper planting, it is usually planting too
deeply, not firming the soil adequately in the planting hole and not watering
sufficiently.
Pam - gardengal - PNW zone 8
Rev Chuck
dr-...@execpc.com wrote:
>
> Live long enough and the recommendations will change for everything. What
> they say is to not dig a deeper hole and amend, but dig a wide hole, rough
> up the surface roots and put some, but not much amendments into the soil to
> get the roots growing out. But I agree about really bad soil. Cover it
> up/build it up. I have planted tomatoes in bags of manure. Ingrid
>
> Rev Chuck <cd...@erols.com> wrote:
>
> >julie a brien wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> First liberally apply Gypsum, dig up the soil and water in. Then add lots
> >> of organic matter. Alternatively give up on the clay. Roughly dig it over
> >> with gypsum. Then go and purchase good quality garden mix from the
> >> landscape supply yard and build up raised beds (this is what I did).
> >>
> >> Never ever dig a hole and just replace the soil with garden mix, when you
> >> plant into this and water you are creating a mini dam and you will rot your
> >> plant roots.
> >
> >For similar reasons, when planting a tree, don't dig an oversized hole,
> >and don't ammend the fill dirt. Dig a hole _same size_ as the pot, place
> >the tree, tamp, and water. Add compost later, using it as a surface mulch.
>
Rev Chuck
>
> Rev Chuck wrote:
>
> >
> > For similar reasons, when planting a tree, don't dig an oversized hole,
> > and don't ammend the fill dirt. Dig a hole _same size_ as the pot, place
> > the tree, tamp, and water. Add compost later, using it as a surface mulch.
>
> twices as wide and deep as the root ball and amending with upto 1/3 of the
> backfill with compost or other OM. Replace the soil in the bottom of the hole to
> the proper level, tamping down well, then plant the tree, backfilling to half the
> depth of the planting hole with the extra soil. Water thoroughly, then fill with
> soil to ground level. Wait until plant is established before applying fertilizer.
>
> The theory is the slightly amended and loosened soil will encourage the tree
> roots to spread horizontally, making it easier for them to establish into native
> soil. If there are concerns about improper planting, it is usually planting too
> deeply, not firming the soil adequately in the planting hole and not watering
> sufficiently.
>
> Pam - gardengal - PNW zone 8
You can direct root growth by band feeding and by remembering to include the
donut-shaped trench. The roots will spread toward water and higher nutrient
concentration.
Salli
Don't know where you are, but I'm near
Mt Barker in Western Australia. We've
always used gypsum to break up the clay.
But ... now .... we have this incredible
stuff called "Super Sorb" (not sure of
the actual marketing name) which is
mined 10km south from us. We got a
trailer load in spring and mixed it in
our vegie garden with silage from our
crops and ... voila ... can't think of
anything better. Apparently Super Sorb
was originally marketed as a kind of
"kitty litter", but they kept finding
more and more terrific properties in it.
Don't know too much more until I get
some sci references from the company. Do
know that they are now exporting the
stuff. (No, I'm not a shareholder!!!!
LOL)
It kind of looks like sand but finer and
has trace elements/minerals in it. Funny
thing is that the locals around here
have been playing with it and also the
blue metal dust that is mined just north
of us for a while now, but our locals
are not too giving with interesting
information, so it's taken a while to
purge them!!!!. We seem to have
incredibly fertile land here, and it's
all helping.
If you're in WA, I'm sure the local pet
stores/bunnings/garden places might know
about it.
Hope it helps.
Good luck.
I'll let you know if I can find out more
about it. It must availablel in other
states but then again ..... bit like the
ginger roots I've been trying to get
here in WA!!!!
regards, Salli
julie a brien
<julie...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in
message
news:vUwd4.2703$oF2....@ozemail.com.au.
..
> Hi
>
> First liberally apply Gypsum, dig up
the soil and water in. Then add lots
> of organic matter. Alternatively give
up on the clay. Roughly dig it over
> with gypsum. Then go and purchase
good quality garden mix from the
> landscape supply yard and build up
raised beds (this is what I did).
>
> Never ever dig a hole and just replace
the soil with garden mix, when you
> plant into this and water you are
creating a mini dam and you will rot
your
> plant roots.
>
>
>
> mindseye <mind...@higherlevel.com>
wrote in message
>
news:7l266s4gnkg6u9fe4cmjeom7b1ftqndljf@
Peter Watkins
has been missed. When you dig the hole, be careful not to have polished
sides. Use the edge of the shovel to rough up the sides. Otherwise,
the roots have trouble breaking through the polished barrier.
--
To reply, remove XYZ from address.
Salli
That's something I always forget to
remember!
I'm going to let BigG (who always "digs"
the holes") in on this.
You are a treasure.
ta.
Salli
Peter Watkins
<pwatk...@interact.net.au> wrote in
message
news:387877ED...@interact.net.au..
.
dr-...@execpc.com
reads the lit, but she told me not to dig deeper than the rootball cause
the whole thing can sink, putting the soil line? of the stem below where it
should be. In fact, she likes to plant the ball part down, part up, make a
high moat around the plant and mulch like hell. But then we got clay from
hell.
I found digging the hole and then filling it half way with water, then
putting in dirt to make a mud slurry, then spread the roots out directly
into the mud, then hold the plant at the right height and back fill with
dirt into a hole full of water seems to make sure that all the dirt in
contact with the roots is wet. no air pockets and the dirt clods fall apart
too.
I got this idea helping The Pond Lady plant water plants one summer. She
just fills the pots with loam, then puts them under water letting the dirt
soften into a slurry. Just push the cuttings or divisions down into the
mud and away they go.
Ingrid
Pam Sinclair <grd...@aa.net> wrote:
>Times change. Most professional landscapers now recommend digging a planting hole
>twices as wide and deep as the root ball and amending with upto 1/3 of the
>backfill with compost or other OM. Replace the soil in the bottom of the hole to
>the proper level, tamping down well, then plant the tree, backfilling to half the
>depth of the planting hole with the extra soil. Water thoroughly, then fill with
>soil to ground level. Wait until plant is established before applying fertilizer.
>
>The theory is the slightly amended and loosened soil will encourage the tree
>roots to spread horizontally, making it easier for them to establish into native
>soil. If there are concerns about improper planting, it is usually planting too
>deeply, not firming the soil adequately in the planting hole and not watering
>sufficiently.
>
>Pam - gardengal - PNW zone 8
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Teresa Hayes
would like to know more about it. A quick question - is it
primarily used for breaking up clay or to help clay soils
retain moisture better or both? Sorry if this sounds like a
dumb question, but I'm not clear from the thread how this
applies. :)
--
Teresa
Central Lower Michigan Z4/5
Salli
Yes, it does both - breaking up clay and
retaining moisture.
I'll phone them today and see if I can
get some more info and will post it
tomorrow.
I just find it incredibly good in clay
soils.
Salli
Teresa Hayes <tha...@perm.fw.msu.edu>
wrote in message
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