Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

'Ronin' mug? *SPOILERS*

397 views
Skip to first unread message

Mike

unread,
Feb 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/15/99
to
In John Frankenheimer's 'Ronin' Robert De Niro's character pours coffee
from a thermos. His hand shakes and he spills the coffee. (On purpose?)
He starts to wipe up the mess and (accidently?) knocks a shiny mug from
the table.
The be-spectacled computer expert (Stellan Skarsgård) catches it.
De Niro remarks on his reflexes.

Question: What did this incident tell us?

This site should give IMDb list of actors and the plot:
http://www.imdb.com/Title?Ronin+(1998)

Thanks
Mike
Perth, Western Australia

Mark Pakula

unread,
Feb 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/15/99
to
>Question: What did this incident tell us?

That hes not a typical computer nerd dude,
that he has had training and seen some action..
I guess.. the following line I think confirms this,
"Old reflexes die hard."


--
Mark Pakula
ma...@dvd.net.au.au or ma...@uow.edu.au.au
remove one .au


Robert Ansell

unread,
Feb 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/15/99
to
Mike wrote:
>
> In John Frankenheimer's 'Ronin' Robert De Niro's character pours coffee
> from a thermos. His hand shakes and he spills the coffee. (On purpose?)
> He starts to wipe up the mess and (accidently?) knocks a shiny mug from
> the table.
> The be-spectacled computer expert (Stellan Skarsgård) catches it.
> De Niro remarks on his reflexes.
>
> Question: What did this incident tell us?
>


s
p
o
i
l
e
r
s

c
o
m
i
n
g

u
p

d
o
n
t

s
a
y

y
o
u

w
e
r
e

n
o
t

w
a
r
n
e
d

That he wasn't just a computer expert, but had recieved a high degree of
training from another body...ie kgb.


At the end of the film, when DeNiro tells the woman his job was to kill
Shamus, do you think he was telling the truth? Friends say he was lying
to 'protect' her, but the fact that he was picked up by some dude at the
end was a sure sign he was indeed working for the USA....what do you
think....

>
> Thanks
> Mike
> Perth, Western Australia

--
"The best way to be boring is to leave noting out" - Voltaire.
Reply to R.An...@bigpond.com -or- Lusip...@hotmail.com

Mike

unread,
Feb 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/15/99
to
*SPOILERS*
*SPOILERS*
*SPOILERS*

Robert Ansell wrote:
> At the end of the film, when DeNiro tells the woman his job was to kill
> Shamus, do you think he was telling the truth? Friends say he was lying
> to 'protect' her, but the fact that he was picked up by some dude at the
> end was a sure sign he was indeed working for the USA....what do you
> think....

I'm going to have to see it again (as usual).As I recall DeNiro was also
saying to the girl, 'I never left! Do you understand:I never left!'
Meaning that he was STILL working for the USA or CIA. He was not in fact
a 'Ronin', a 'desperado', 'outcast, 'freelance' whatever.

And didn't Reno say to the hairy fellow, who helped with the bullet
removal, something to the effect that Sam had influence and could 'get'
the things they needed? (Apparently that didn't run to a chopper to get
De Niro to a doctor.)
Also, wasn't it DeNiro who was able to use some influence, some contact,
to locate Gregor via the latter's cellular phone?

So...yes, I think he was working for the USA all along.


Mike
Perth, Western Australia

Filmnet

unread,
Feb 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/15/99
to

Mike wrote:

> *SPOILERS*
> *SPOILERS*
> *SPOILERS*
>
> Robert Ansell wrote:
> > At the end of the film, when DeNiro tells the woman his job was to kill
> > Shamus, do you think he was telling the truth? Friends say he was lying
> > to 'protect' her, but the fact that he was picked up by some dude at the
> > end was a sure sign he was indeed working for the USA....what do you
> > think....
>
> I'm going to have to see it again (as usual).As I recall DeNiro was also
> saying to the girl, 'I never left! Do you understand:I never left!'
> Meaning that he was STILL working for the USA or CIA. He was not in fact
> a 'Ronin', a 'desperado', 'outcast, 'freelance' whatever.
>

As they say. You never leave the firm.

>
> And didn't Reno say to the hairy fellow, who helped with the bullet
> removal, something to the effect that Sam had influence and could 'get'
> the things they needed? (Apparently that didn't run to a chopper to get
> De Niro to a doctor.)
> Also, wasn't it DeNiro who was able to use some influence, some contact,
> to locate Gregor via the latter's cellular phone?

Well he could theoretically have left the CIA and still have mates who could
help him.
Influence/mates don't necessarily have to be CIA.
However Its made crystal clear at the end that he's no Ronin.
I'm sure that there would have been an easier way to catch Shamus.
Bug Deidre's phone/follow her etc etc
nice car chase though.

Filmnet

unread,
Feb 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/15/99
to
De Niro's character is suspicious (rightly) of everyone and he was testing
Stellan's character. The quick reaction implied he was well trained (unlike
one other member). Training in martial arts will help you achieve this. The
director goes out of his way to make sure you notice this.
However those quick reflexes didn't seem to appear much later in the film.

Mike wrote:

> In John Frankenheimer's 'Ronin' Robert De Niro's character pours coffee
> from a thermos. His hand shakes and he spills the coffee. (On purpose?)
> He starts to wipe up the mess and (accidently?) knocks a shiny mug from
> the table.
> The be-spectacled computer expert (Stellan Skarsgård) catches it.
> De Niro remarks on his reflexes.
>
> Question: What did this incident tell us?
>

> This site should give IMDb list of actors and the plot:
> http://www.imdb.com/Title?Ronin+(1998)
>

pcms1199

unread,
Feb 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/24/99
to
I went to see this film and thought the car chases were brilliant. I also
have the question about what the scene with the coffee being spilled
signifies. Is there a moral to spilling coffee and sleeves.
Mike wrote in message <36C80E...@my-dejanews.com>...

Cinephile

unread,
Mar 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM3/3/99
to
this film seems to be about coffee. deniro and reno spend about 10 minutes
screen time sippin'.

deniro fools with coffee twice; the incident you mention, when he's
'testing' skarsgaard to see if he's 'trained' KGB/E.Germ.SecretPolice etc.;
and then the really fun one, where he 'sets up' sean bean to fall back on
the hot coffee cup in order to prove the point that he can be 'ambushed' and
is thus some kind of unfit imposter in this select team.

i think the screenwriters mean to show how these cats think and act in real
life; in a drama, though, it plays as irrelevant folderol... by the way, i
enjoyed 98% of this movie--it's good to see 'old' Frankenheimer kicking a.
as he used to in GRAND PRIX and even more so in MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE...

C.
pcms1199 <pcms...@msnetsy.cpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:7avvio$st1$1...@periwyte.cpg.com.au...

jessegu...@gmail.com

unread,
May 6, 2020, 2:01:41 AM5/6/20
to
On Monday, February 15, 1999 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-5, Mike wrote:
> In John Frankenheimer's 'Ronin' Robert De Niro's character pours coffee
> from a thermos. His hand shakes and he spills the coffee. (On purpose?)
> He starts to wipe up the mess and (accidently?) knocks a shiny mug from
> the table.
> The be-spectacled computer expert (Stellan Skarsgård) catches it.
> De Niro remarks on his reflexes.
>
> Question: What did this incident tell us?
>
> This site should give IMDb list of actors and the plot:
> http://www.imdb.com/Title?Ronin+(1998)
>
> Thanks
> Mike
> Perth, Western Australia

The scene, beyond displaying that he is more than his cover as computer expert. It betrays that he is purposely/deliberately understated. The man is actually the typical Soviet/Russian intelligence: Highly competent and understated. [this applies till this day: Google Russian diplomat kills Brazilian robber]. The scene got the shape/figure right as well. Russin sportsmen often look like the 'Computer expert'. Compare to fedor emilienenko, etc.
0 new messages