OT: Pedestal fan purchase

[Sylvia Else]

I bought an Arlec pedestal fan yesterday. When I got it home I noticed
that it claimed "DC motor technology". Turns out that instead of a mains
lead, it has a plug-pack that connects to it.

Anyway, I assume their motive for this change is cost, so we may see it
in other models/brands. Something to watch out for.

As it happened, a part was missing, and I was able to return it for a
refund.

Sylvia.

[Xeno]

On 7/12/2023 9:58 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
> I bought an Arlec pedestal fan yesterday. When I got it home I noticed
> that it claimed "DC motor technology". Turns out that instead of a mains
> lead, it has a plug-pack that connects to it.

Was that one of those remote controlled ones?

>
> Anyway, I assume their motive for this change is cost, so we may see it
> in other models/brands. Something to watch out for.

More like easy compliance with Aus electrical standards.

>
> As it happened, a part was missing, and I was able to return it for a
> refund.

Lucky!
>
> Sylvia.
>

--
Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

[Sylvia Else]

On 07-Dec-23 10:05 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 7/12/2023 9:58 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> I bought an Arlec pedestal fan yesterday. When I got it home I noticed
>> that it claimed "DC motor technology". Turns out that instead of a
>> mains lead, it has a plug-pack that connects to it.
>
> Was that one of those remote controlled ones?

Yes, though that wasn't why I bought it.
Sylvia.

[Xeno]

I saw them in Bunnings recently. No mention of power brick on the box
that I could see. Would be off putting to me as well. Not that we need a
pedestal fan, we have ceiling fans all over the house.

[Rod Speed]

Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> wrote

> I bought an Arlec pedestal fan yesterday. When I got it home I noticed
> that it claimed "DC motor technology". Turns out that instead of a mains
> lead, it has a plug-pack that connects to it.

> Anyway, I assume their motive for this change is cost,

Can't see that.

> so we may see it in other models/brands.

> Something to watch out for.

Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?

> As it happened, a part was missing, and I was able to return it for a
> refund.

You can with the best sellers if it turns out you don't like something
about it.

[Mighty Mouse]

Rod Speed wrote:
> Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> wrote
>
>> I bought an Arlec pedestal fan yesterday. When I got it home I
>> noticed that it claimed "DC motor technology". Turns out that instead
>> of a mains lead, it has a plug-pack that connects to it.
>
>> Anyway, I assume their motive for this change is cost,
>
> Can't see that.
>
>> so we may see it  in other models/brands.
>
>> Something to watch out for.
>
> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?

that's what I was wondering

>
>> As it happened, a part was missing, and I was able to return it for a
>> refund.
>
> You can with the best sellers if it turns out you don't like something
> about it.

--
Have a nice day!..

[Computer Nerd Kev]

Perhaps the speed is continuously variable instead of in fixed
steps? Personally I prefer old-fashioned ones with a physical speed
switch, but if people demand blinky lights and remote controls
then this is what they'll get. Unfortunately there's far more to go
wrong as a result, and probably far more power wasted too.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _# | Note: I won't see posts made from Google Groups |

[Sylvia Else]

On 08-Dec-23 4:09 am, Rod Speed wrote:
> Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> wrote
>
>> I bought an Arlec pedestal fan yesterday. When I got it home I noticed
>> that it claimed "DC motor technology". Turns out that instead of a
>> mains lead, it has a plug-pack that connects to it.
>
>> Anyway, I assume their motive for this change is cost,
>
> Can't see that.
>
>> so we may see it  in other models/brands.
>
>> Something to watch out for.
>
> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>

If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.

Sylvia.

[Computer Nerd Kev]

Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.

I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
which a fan could often be used with.

[Xeno]

On 8/12/2023 8:26 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> In aus.cars Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> wrote:
>> On 08-Dec-23 4:09 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>
>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>
>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>
> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>
> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
> which a fan could often be used with.
>

Wall Warts are a PITA. The company buys in a heap of wall warts that are
already Aus certified for 230V so they don't need to have the fan itself
certified. Cheaping out is all it is.

[Sylvia Else]

The box claimed that the fan was more efficient. That could be true,
because it appears that the typical split phase induction motor is not
very efficient. However, we're talking about around 10 watts saving at
most, so it's not something I would take into account when buying a fan.

Sylvia.

[Sylvia Else]

On 08-Dec-23 10:59 am, Xeno wrote:
> On 8/12/2023 8:26 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> In aus.cars Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 08-Dec-23 4:09 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>
>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>
>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>
>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>
>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>
> Wall Warts are a PITA. The company buys in a heap of wall warts that are
> already Aus certified for 230V so they don't need to have the fan itself
> certified. Cheaping out is all it is.
>
>

What puzzles me is how quickly the models change, which presumably means
they have to be re-certified. Are consumers really so shallow that
they'll refuse to buy something that was already available a year ago?

Sylvia.

[Sylvia Else]

On 08-Dec-23 8:26 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> In aus.cars Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> wrote:
>> On 08-Dec-23 4:09 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>
>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>
>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>
> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>
> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
> which a fan could often be used with.
>

I find that plug packs, especially the higher power ones, often take up
more than their fair share of space on a power socket, and render the
adjacent socket unusable.

Sylvia.

[Keithr0]

On 8/12/2023 10:06 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 08-Dec-23 10:59 am, Xeno wrote:
>> On 8/12/2023 8:26 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>> In aus.cars Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 08-Dec-23 4:09 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>>
>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>
>>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>
>>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>>
>> Wall Warts are a PITA. The company buys in a heap of wall warts that
>> are already Aus certified for 230V so they don't need to have the fan
>> itself certified. Cheaping out is all it is.
>>
>>
>
> What puzzles me is how quickly the models change, which presumably means
> they have to be re-certified.

Perhaps after certifying the plug pack, the fan does not require
certification since it is only a low voltage device not directly
connected to the mains. Thus they can change the fan model at will.

> Are consumers really so shallow that
> they'll refuse to buy something that was already available a year ago?

Oscar Wilde observed that fashion is a form of ugliness so extreme that
it needs to be changed regularly

> Sylvia.

[Xeno]

Yes, he says as he looks over to a power board replete with wall warts.

[Mighty Mouse]

Xeno wrote:
> On 8/12/2023 8:26 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> In aus.cars Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 08-Dec-23 4:09 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>
>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>
>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>
>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>
>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>
> Wall Warts are a PITA. The company buys in a heap of wall warts that
> are already Aus certified for 230V so they don't need to have the fan
> itself certified. Cheaping out is all it is.
>
>

but they would have to remake the fan to run on DC, so false economy

[Peter Jason]

On Fri, 8 Dec 2023 11:06:22 +1100, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid>

Yes, they're pretty stoopid.
And women shop until their husband's drop.

I have a few pedestal fans acquired by gleaning the piles of stuff on
the footpath, after the landlord has thrown out his tenant.

I have numerous Objet d'art, mainly paintings that have suffered a
like fate, all costing me $zilch. These cover the walls and even
make the rooms look bigger.

The fans service the TV room, the parlour, the maid's room, the music
room, the dining room, the dressing room, the bedroom (2), and even
the spare room!

Fans are very useful because they evenly distribute the heat and cool
fixing stratification. Ceiling fans are better, but the poor can't
be choosey.

I do have an old utility, a Toyota 98 model which helps in
collections. A good friend of mine, now sadly departed this
spendthrift world, refused to buy any appliance new, instead just
turned over his old stuff when it broke down.

[Xeno]

But they only have to design and make it *once* with *no 230V AC cert.
The wall wart will be certified by the maker they buy it from, again,
the fan co, needs no certification. All *redesigns* need no renewal of
certification.

[Daryl]

On 8/12/2023 11:07 am, Sylvia Else wrote:

That can be a problem, I've put up lots of Christmas lights and finding
space in a power board for the power supplies can be a problem which is
why I end with a string of power boards.
I control the lights with smart plugs and earlier versions were quite
big, so big that you can't fit 2 on a double power point but the
manufacturers must have figured that out because today I bought 2 tapo
"mini" smart plugs and they will fit side by side in a double power point.

--
Daryl

[Computer Nerd Kev]

In aus.electronics Xeno <xeno...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
> On 8/12/2023 8:26 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> In aus.cars Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> wrote:
>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>
>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>
>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>
> Wall Warts are a PITA. The company buys in a heap of wall warts that are
> already Aus certified for 230V so they don't need to have the fan itself
> certified. Cheaping out is all it is.

Sure, my fans are all AC ones with chunky knobs to turn, so the
idea of DC seems like extra complication to me wherever the PSU is.

Besides the certification issue, plugpacks also allow them to use a
cheap low-voltage cable running to the fan.

[Computer Nerd Kev]

Ah yes, fair enough. A double-adapter can help to move a bulky
plugpack out of the way.

[Mighty Mouse]

what's happened to your BFF? strange for him to be MIA for three days

[Xeno]

He's suddenly realised that not even his BFFs believe his bullshit claims?

[Sylvia Else]

But the cable has to handle a higher current, and will use more metal,
even if it uses less plastic. It's not clear that there's a saving there.

Sylvia.

[Rod Speed]

Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> wrote

Just one more is no big deal.

[Rod Speed]

Xeno <xeno...@optusnet.com.au> wrote
> Computer Nerd Kev wrote
>> Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> wrote

>>> Rod Speed wrote

>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>
>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>
>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>> which a fan could often be used with.

> Wall Warts are a PITA.

Don't buy that.

> The company buys in a heap of wall warts that are already Aus certified

> for 230V so they don't need tohave the fan itself certified. Cheaping

> out is all it is.

Its bullshit to claim that that's all it is.

[Rod Speed]

Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> wrote
> Xeno wrote
>> Computer Nerd Kev wrote
>>> Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> wrote

>>>> Rod Speed wrote

>>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>>
>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>
>>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>
>>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>>
>> Wall Warts are a PITA. The company buys in a heap of wall warts that
>> are already Aus certified for 230V so they don't need to have the fan
>> itself certified. Cheaping out is all it is.

> What puzzles me is how quickly the models change, which presumablymeans
> they have to be re-certified. Are consumers really so shallow that
> they'll refuse to buy something that was already available a year ago?

That's not what its about.

[Rod Speed]

On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 11:07:35 +1100, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid>

That's no longer true with switch mode wall warts.

[Daryl]

Could be to do with a Govt regulation somewhere that states that
appliances must use less power, its that way in the automotive world,
some of the changes that manufacturers make don't seem to make any sense
at all until you look at the regulations they must comply with.

--
Daryl

[Xeno]

On 9/12/2023 4:55 am, Rod Speed wrote:
> Xeno <xeno...@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>> Computer Nerd Kev wrote
>>> Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>
>>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>>
>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>  Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>  I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>
>> Wall Warts are a PITA.
>
> Don't buy that.

Yeah, I don't buy anything with wall warts either if there's an alternative.

>
>> The company buys in a heap of wall warts that are already Aus
>> certified for 230V so they don't need tohave the fan itself
>> certified. Cheaping out is all it is.
>
> Its bullshit to claim that that's all it is.

Ok, you enlighten us on *your* reasoning behind the wall wart plague!

[Mighty Mouse]

Xeno wrote:
> On 9/12/2023 4:55 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>> Xeno <xeno...@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>> Computer Nerd Kev wrote
>>>> Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>
>>>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>>>
>>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>>  Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>>  I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>
>>> Wall Warts are a PITA.
>>
>> Don't buy that.
>
> Yeah, I don't buy anything with wall warts either if there's an
> alternative.
>>
>>> The company buys in a heap of wall warts that are already Aus
>>> certified for 230V so they don't need tohave the fan itself 
>>> certified. Cheaping out is all it is.
>>
>> Its bullshit to claim that that's all it is.
>
> Ok, you enlighten us on *your* reasoning behind the wall wart plague!

industry requirements?

[Rod Speed]

On Sat, 09 Dec 2023 09:25:12 +1100, Daryl <dwal...@westpine.com.au> wrote:

> On 8/12/2023 9:43 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 08-Dec-23 5:18 pm, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>> In aus.electronics Xeno <xeno...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>>>> On 8/12/2023 8:26 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>>> In aus.cars Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>>>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>>>>
>>>> Wall Warts are a PITA. The company buys in a heap of wall warts that
>>>> are
>>>> already Aus certified for 230V so they don't need to have the fan
>>>> itself
>>>> certified. Cheaping out is all it is.
>>>
>>> Sure, my fans are all AC ones with chunky knobs to turn, so the
>>> idea of DC seems like extra complication to me wherever the PSU is.
>>>
>>> Besides the certification issue, plugpacks also allow them to use a
>>> cheap low-voltage cable running to the fan.
>> But the cable has to handle a higher current, and will use more metal,
>> even if it uses less plastic. It's not clear that there's a saving
>> there.

> Could be to do with a Govt regulation somewherethat states that

> appliances must use less power,

No such animal.

> its that way in the automotive world,

Bullshit it is.

> some of the changes that manufacturers make don't seem to makeany sense

> at all until you look at the regulations they must comply with.

Not true of pedestal fans.

[Xeno]

I already made the Aus industry requirement known - see above.

If a device runs on 230 V AC, then the whole unit needs to be certified,
even if the manufacturer has a voltage converter inside the device. If
they put the voltage converter *outside* the device, buying it from a
company that builds and certifies the external converter, a number of
different devices can be run on the same converter (under its
certification) or changes can be made to the device, all without
triggering a recertification. That saves a hell of a lot of cost

Rod says there's more to it than that. Ok, let's see it.

Note, DC fans are more energy efficient than AC fans but energy
efficiency is not the point here because you can wire the fans direct to
AC mains when you have a built in converter. I have a ceiling fan here
that is direct wired to 230 AC. Obviously it will have a converter in
the case of the unit and, as a consequence, the entire unit will need to
have been certified. But the fact that the fan runs on DC is not the
point. The whole point is the use of a wall wart (plug pack) instead of
wiring the AC direct to the unit and using a built in converter. I have
stated it is cost and the majority of the cost savings would be in not
having a requirement for mains certification on the device (fan), just
on the wall wart.

[Rod Speed]

Xeno <xeno...@optusnet.com.au> wrote

> Rod Speed wrote
>> Xeno <xeno...@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>> Computer Nerd Kev wrote
>>>> Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote

>>>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>>>
>>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>
>>> Wall Warts are a PITA.

>> Don't buy that.

> Yeah, I don't buy anything with wall warts either if there's an
> alternative.

More fool you, and that's not what I meant.

>>> The company buys in a heap of wall warts that are already Aus
>>> certified for 230V so they don't need tohave the fan itself
>>> certified. Cheaping out is all it is.

>> Its bullshit to claim that that's all it is.

> Ok, you enlighten us on *your* reasoning behind the wall wart plague!

There is no plague.

Its the sensible way to do things.

[Rod Speed]

Mighty Mouse <squeak!@thecheesefactory.com> wrote
> Xeno wrote

Nope.

[Xeno]

There's a wall wart plague here. Damn near everything has a wall wart
these days.

[Rod Speed]

Nope. The same number of plugged in devices regardless
of whether there are powered with a wall wart or not.

> Damn near everything has a wall wart these days.

The same number of plugged in devices regardless
of whether there are powered with a wall wart or not.

[Xeno]

Your avoidance of the question noted!

[Rod Speed]

No question was avoided, fuckwit.

[Xeno]

I see Rod is back into Rod mode.

[Sylvia Else]

No, wait, he hasn't mentioned any flushing yet.

Sylvia.

[Xeno]

It will come, guaranteed!

[Rod Speed]

You never left Xeno mode, gutless.

And there was never any question.