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Sylvia Else
Aug 21, 2021, 12:06:38 AM8/21/21
to
My 40 year old scope seems to have failed again the same way it did a
while back - one of the X-axis drive transistors has failed - the same
one as last time. Could just be chance again, but one has to wonder.
If I had a replacement, I'd use it, but either I only sourced one last
time, or I've lost the other(s). Either way, I think I should cut my
losses, and get a new scope.
My needs are fairly basic - after all, I lived with a 20MHz scope for
forty years. A USB/PC one would probably suffice.
Anyone have experience with such a device?
Sylvia.
while back - one of the X-axis drive transistors has failed - the same
one as last time. Could just be chance again, but one has to wonder.
If I had a replacement, I'd use it, but either I only sourced one last
time, or I've lost the other(s). Either way, I think I should cut my
losses, and get a new scope.
My needs are fairly basic - after all, I lived with a 20MHz scope for
forty years. A USB/PC one would probably suffice.
Anyone have experience with such a device?
Sylvia.
Phil Allison
Aug 21, 2021, 12:19:32 AM8/21/21
to
Sylvia Else wrote:
=============
Two are Aussie made BWDs and the third a NLS mini-scope made in the USA.
The oldest I built myself 50 yeara ago.
All are working fine.
> If I had a replacement, I'd use it, but either I only sourced one last
> time, or I've lost the other(s). Either way, I think I should cut my
> losses, and get a new scope.
>
> My needs are fairly basic - after all, I lived with a 20MHz scope for
> forty years. A USB/PC one would probably suffice.
>
> Anyone have experience with such a device?
** Giant step backwards for any low cost model.
The transistor you need can be bought from WES Components in Summer Hill.
Failures are due to time and self heating effects.
I have had to replace half a dozen to get an 80s Taiwanese scope going again.
Damn poor design.
...... Phil
=============
>
> My 40 year old scope seems to have failed again the same way it did a
> while back - one of the X-axis drive transistors has failed - the same
> one as last time. Could just be chance again, but one has to wonder.
>
** I have four scopes all l over that age.
> My 40 year old scope seems to have failed again the same way it did a
> while back - one of the X-axis drive transistors has failed - the same
> one as last time. Could just be chance again, but one has to wonder.
>
Two are Aussie made BWDs and the third a NLS mini-scope made in the USA.
The oldest I built myself 50 yeara ago.
All are working fine.
> If I had a replacement, I'd use it, but either I only sourced one last
> time, or I've lost the other(s). Either way, I think I should cut my
> losses, and get a new scope.
>
> My needs are fairly basic - after all, I lived with a 20MHz scope for
> forty years. A USB/PC one would probably suffice.
>
> Anyone have experience with such a device?
The transistor you need can be bought from WES Components in Summer Hill.
Failures are due to time and self heating effects.
I have had to replace half a dozen to get an 80s Taiwanese scope going again.
Damn poor design.
...... Phil
Sylvia Else
Aug 21, 2021, 1:00:25 AM8/21/21
to
doing so would be a waste of money and/or effort if it's going to fail
again before long. It's not even as if it's had that much use since I
last repaired it.
Phil Allison
Aug 21, 2021, 1:21:29 AM8/21/21
to
Sylvia Else wrote:
================
> Yes, the problem is not sourcing another one,
** Then do so.
> it's a question whether
> doing so would be a waste of money and/or effort
** Wot - $3 and half an hour?
> It's not even as if it's had that much use since I
> last repaired it.
** Dunno wot POS you bought - big secret ?
My BWDs ( models 821 & 824 ) have had zero repair in 20 years.
The mini-scope none in 30.
If an analog scope is all you need and are used to - don't change.
...... Phil
================
>
> >>
> >> My 40 year old scope seems to have failed again the same way it did a
> >> while back - one of the X-axis drive transistors has failed - the same
> >> one as last time. Could just be chance again, but one has to wonder.
> >>
> >
> > ** I have four scopes all l over that age.
> > Two are Aussie made BWDs and the third a NLS mini-scope made in the USA.
> > The oldest I built myself 50 yeara ago.
> > All are working fine.
> >
> >> If I had a replacement, I'd use it, but either I only sourced one last
> >> time, or I've lost the other(s). Either way, I think I should cut my
> >> losses, and get a new scope.
> >>
> >> My needs are fairly basic - after all, I lived with a 20MHz scope for
> >> forty years. A USB/PC one would probably suffice.
> >>
> >> Anyone have experience with such a device?
> >
> > ** Giant step backwards for any low cost model.
> >
> > The transistor you need can be bought from WES Components in Summer Hill.
> > Failures are due to time and self heating effects.
> >
> > I have had to replace half a dozen to get an 80s Taiwanese scope going again.
> > Damn poor design.
-------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> My 40 year old scope seems to have failed again the same way it did a
> >> while back - one of the X-axis drive transistors has failed - the same
> >> one as last time. Could just be chance again, but one has to wonder.
> >>
> >
> > ** I have four scopes all l over that age.
> > Two are Aussie made BWDs and the third a NLS mini-scope made in the USA.
> > The oldest I built myself 50 yeara ago.
> > All are working fine.
> >
> >> If I had a replacement, I'd use it, but either I only sourced one last
> >> time, or I've lost the other(s). Either way, I think I should cut my
> >> losses, and get a new scope.
> >>
> >> My needs are fairly basic - after all, I lived with a 20MHz scope for
> >> forty years. A USB/PC one would probably suffice.
> >>
> >> Anyone have experience with such a device?
> >
> > ** Giant step backwards for any low cost model.
> >
> > The transistor you need can be bought from WES Components in Summer Hill.
> > Failures are due to time and self heating effects.
> >
> > I have had to replace half a dozen to get an 80s Taiwanese scope going again.
> > Damn poor design.
> Yes, the problem is not sourcing another one,
> it's a question whether
> doing so would be a waste of money and/or effort
> It's not even as if it's had that much use since I
> last repaired it.
My BWDs ( models 821 & 824 ) have had zero repair in 20 years.
The mini-scope none in 30.
If an analog scope is all you need and are used to - don't change.
...... Phil
Sylvia Else
Aug 21, 2021, 2:38:26 AM8/21/21
to
previously. It's a Hameg HM203-5.
On closer examination, it looks as if it wasn't the transistor I
replaced that's failed, but the corresponding one on the other half of
the output (half drives left of centre, half drives right of centre).
Which makes a kind of sense. So I'll try repairing it after all.
Also, the circuit diagram specifies BF472, but the transistor itself is
a BF470, which is a somewhat lower voltage variant. Perhaps the
accountants got involved in the design, and I'm paying the price.
Sylvia.
Jan Panteltje
Aug 21, 2021, 2:39:30 AM8/21/21
to
On a sunny day (Sat, 21 Aug 2021 14:06:35 +1000) it happened Sylvia Else
<syl...@email.invalid> wrote in <iobcec...@mid.individual.net>:
>My 40 year old scope seems to have failed again the same way it did a
>while back - one of the X-axis drive transistors has failed - the same
>one as last time. Could just be chance again, but one has to wonder.
>
>If I had a replacement, I'd use it, but either I only sourced one last
>time, or I've lost the other(s). Either way, I think I should cut my
>losses, and get a new scope.
>
>My needs are fairly basic - after all, I lived with a 20MHz scope for
>forty years.
Ha! I Have a Trio CS1562A 10 MHz dual channel analog scope, and is all I ever needed at home.
Fix your analog scope if you can!
>A USB/PC one would probably suffice.
There are cheap digital ones, USB PC is not practical.
All depends on what you do.
What counts most is understanding of what you do,
>Anyone have experience with such a device?
Well I designed and build scope-pic:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/index.html
Not as good as my analog, but was fun to build, never use it though :-)
Most RF (radio) stuff can be done with an rtl-sdr USB stick and software spectrum analyzer (is what I do).
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/xpsa/index.html
tons of software exists online and free for that.
But if I needed a new scope I would go for a stand-alone, not a PC based one.
Isolation for a start.
There are cheap Rigols some you could even modify in software to get more bandwidth IIRC
Do not remember a model number right now, oh,
https://www.instructables.com/How-to-Hack-Upgrade-a-Rigol-DS1054Z-Digital-Oscill/
So if I needed a scope I would go for that perhaps ;-) Just for fun.
Does not J. Larkin have one?
<syl...@email.invalid> wrote in <iobcec...@mid.individual.net>:
>My 40 year old scope seems to have failed again the same way it did a
>while back - one of the X-axis drive transistors has failed - the same
>one as last time. Could just be chance again, but one has to wonder.
>
>If I had a replacement, I'd use it, but either I only sourced one last
>time, or I've lost the other(s). Either way, I think I should cut my
>losses, and get a new scope.
>
>My needs are fairly basic - after all, I lived with a 20MHz scope for
>forty years.
Fix your analog scope if you can!
>A USB/PC one would probably suffice.
All depends on what you do.
What counts most is understanding of what you do,
>Anyone have experience with such a device?
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/scope_pic/index.html
Not as good as my analog, but was fun to build, never use it though :-)
Most RF (radio) stuff can be done with an rtl-sdr USB stick and software spectrum analyzer (is what I do).
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/xpsa/index.html
tons of software exists online and free for that.
But if I needed a new scope I would go for a stand-alone, not a PC based one.
Isolation for a start.
There are cheap Rigols some you could even modify in software to get more bandwidth IIRC
Do not remember a model number right now, oh,
https://www.instructables.com/How-to-Hack-Upgrade-a-Rigol-DS1054Z-Digital-Oscill/
So if I needed a scope I would go for that perhaps ;-) Just for fun.
Does not J. Larkin have one?
Phil Allison
Aug 21, 2021, 4:40:47 AM8/21/21
to
Sylvia Else wrote:
=================
Even have full Mumetal shielding on the tube - unlike Asian scopes.
> On closer examination, it looks as if it wasn't the transistor I
> replaced that's failed, but the corresponding one on the other half of
> the output (half drives left of centre, half drives right of centre).
> Which makes a kind of sense. So I'll try repairing it after all.
** Good.
Maybe buy a few, if they are used elsewhere.
..... Phil
=================
>
> > ** Dunno wot POS you bought - big secret ?
> >
> > My BWDs ( models 821 & 824 ) have had zero repair in 20 years.
> > The mini-scope none in 30.
> >
> > If an analog scope is all you need and are used to - don't change.
> >
> >
> > ** Dunno wot POS you bought - big secret ?
> >
> > My BWDs ( models 821 & 824 ) have had zero repair in 20 years.
> > The mini-scope none in 30.
> >
> > If an analog scope is all you need and are used to - don't change.
> >
> >
> Hardly a secret, I posted the circuit diagram of the X final amplifier
> previously. It's a Hameg HM203-5.
** Very good scopes.
> previously. It's a Hameg HM203-5.
Even have full Mumetal shielding on the tube - unlike Asian scopes.
> On closer examination, it looks as if it wasn't the transistor I
> replaced that's failed, but the corresponding one on the other half of
> the output (half drives left of centre, half drives right of centre).
> Which makes a kind of sense. So I'll try repairing it after all.
>
> Also, the circuit diagram specifies BF472, but the transistor itself is
> a BF470, which is a somewhat lower voltage variant. Perhaps the
> accountants got involved in the design, and I'm paying the price.
>
** BF472 from WES = about $1.25
> Also, the circuit diagram specifies BF472, but the transistor itself is
> a BF470, which is a somewhat lower voltage variant. Perhaps the
> accountants got involved in the design, and I'm paying the price.
>
Maybe buy a few, if they are used elsewhere.
..... Phil
Sylvia Else
Aug 21, 2021, 4:55:38 AM8/21/21
to
On 21-Aug-21 6:40 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
> Sylvia Else wrote:
> =================
>>
>>> ** Dunno wot POS you bought - big secret ?
>>>
>>> My BWDs ( models 821 & 824 ) have had zero repair in 20 years.
>>> The mini-scope none in 30.
>>>
>>> If an analog scope is all you need and are used to - don't change.
>>>
>>>
>> Hardly a secret, I posted the circuit diagram of the X final amplifier
>> previously. It's a Hameg HM203-5.
>
> ** Very good scopes.
>
> Even have full Mumetal shielding on the tube - unlike Asian scopes.
>
>
I just wish it were easier to repair. At first sight, it appears quite
> Sylvia Else wrote:
> =================
>>
>>> ** Dunno wot POS you bought - big secret ?
>>>
>>> My BWDs ( models 821 & 824 ) have had zero repair in 20 years.
>>> The mini-scope none in 30.
>>>
>>> If an analog scope is all you need and are used to - don't change.
>>>
>>>
>> Hardly a secret, I posted the circuit diagram of the X final amplifier
>> previously. It's a Hameg HM203-5.
>
> ** Very good scopes.
>
> Even have full Mumetal shielding on the tube - unlike Asian scopes.
>
>
modular, with plugs and sockets. Then one notices the multiple wires
soldered directly to boards. The power transformer has wires soldered
directly to more than one board. I even have to wonder how they managed
to assemble it, unless they used special right-angle soldering irons.
Sylvia.
Clive Arthur
Aug 21, 2021, 5:08:45 AM8/21/21
to
notebook PC running Linux, it makes a very portable and capable package.
https://digilent.com/analog-discovery-2-100msps-usb-oscilloscope-logic-analyzer-and-variable-power-supply/
Though in the office, the four channel Rigol is more convenient.
--
Cheers
Clive
Cursitor Doom
Aug 21, 2021, 5:46:06 AM8/21/21
to
On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 06:38:46 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
+1 what Jan said. Plus digital scopes can tell lies; analogue ones
don't. And reparability is a major boon, which is where vintage test
gear scores highly.
--
"By 2030, you will own nothing and be happy about it."
- Klaus Schwab, World Economic Forum CEO.
<pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
+1 what Jan said. Plus digital scopes can tell lies; analogue ones
don't. And reparability is a major boon, which is where vintage test
gear scores highly.
--
"By 2030, you will own nothing and be happy about it."
- Klaus Schwab, World Economic Forum CEO.
Phil Allison
Aug 21, 2021, 6:40:52 AM8/21/21
to
They once made elaborate bomb fuses in WW2 that would trigger the explosives if anyone tried to defuse them.
Pure bastardry.
..... Phil
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
Aug 21, 2021, 11:14:57 AM8/21/21
to
On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 14:06:35 +1000, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid>
wrote:
I like a scope with a screen and knobs. The Rigols are great. We
haven't had trouble with one yet, out of a dozen at least.
Sharp color traces, infinite storage, cursors, time and voltage
precision, signal averaging, all are wonderful compared to an old
analog scope. And you can lift one with one hand.
--
Father Brown's figure remained quite dark and still;
but in that instant he had lost his head. His head was
always most valuable when he had lost it.
wrote:
haven't had trouble with one yet, out of a dozen at least.
Sharp color traces, infinite storage, cursors, time and voltage
precision, signal averaging, all are wonderful compared to an old
analog scope. And you can lift one with one hand.
--
Father Brown's figure remained quite dark and still;
but in that instant he had lost his head. His head was
always most valuable when he had lost it.
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
Aug 21, 2021, 11:21:32 AM8/21/21
to
On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 10:46:04 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@nowhere.com>
wrote:
>On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 06:38:46 GMT, Jan Panteltje
><pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>+1 what Jan said. Plus digital scopes can tell lies; analogue ones
>don't. And reparability is a major boon, which is where vintage test
>gear scores highly.
So far, none of our digital scopes have needed repair. Analog scopes
break a lot.
wrote:
>On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 06:38:46 GMT, Jan Panteltje
><pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>+1 what Jan said. Plus digital scopes can tell lies; analogue ones
>don't. And reparability is a major boon, which is where vintage test
>gear scores highly.
break a lot.
Jan Panteltje
Aug 21, 2021, 11:36:00 AM8/21/21
to
On a sunny day (Sat, 21 Aug 2021 08:21:26 -0700) it happened
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
<qc62ig99ro8tiimf2...@4ax.com>:
>On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 10:46:04 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@nowhere.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 06:38:46 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>><pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>+1 what Jan said. Plus digital scopes can tell lies; analogue ones
>>don't. And reparability is a major boon, which is where vintage test
>>gear scores highly.
>
>So far, none of our digital scopes have needed repair. Analog scopes
>break a lot.
Not sure that goes, my Trio is from 1979 or so and only needed fixing after I accidently sparked
to a channel from a TV booster tube.
Was on all day for TV repair in my shop, is on here now every now and then:
http://panteltje.com/pub/APC_UPS_ES700_waveform_25W_edison_bulb_load_IMG_0270.JPG
I destroyed the graticule (soldering station dropped on it) and made a new one myself from plexiglass.
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
<qc62ig99ro8tiimf2...@4ax.com>:
>On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 10:46:04 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@nowhere.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 06:38:46 GMT, Jan Panteltje
>><pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>+1 what Jan said. Plus digital scopes can tell lies; analogue ones
>>don't. And reparability is a major boon, which is where vintage test
>>gear scores highly.
>
>So far, none of our digital scopes have needed repair. Analog scopes
>break a lot.
to a channel from a TV booster tube.
Was on all day for TV repair in my shop, is on here now every now and then:
http://panteltje.com/pub/APC_UPS_ES700_waveform_25W_edison_bulb_load_IMG_0270.JPG
I destroyed the graticule (soldering station dropped on it) and made a new one myself from plexiglass.
Cursitor Doom
Aug 21, 2021, 11:57:21 AM8/21/21
to
On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 08:14:51 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
wrote:
>On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 14:06:35 +1000, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>My 40 year old scope seems to have failed again the same way it did a
>>while back - one of the X-axis drive transistors has failed - the same
>>one as last time. Could just be chance again, but one has to wonder.
>>
>>If I had a replacement, I'd use it, but either I only sourced one last
>>time, or I've lost the other(s). Either way, I think I should cut my
>>losses, and get a new scope.
>>
>>My needs are fairly basic - after all, I lived with a 20MHz scope for
>>forty years. A USB/PC one would probably suffice.
>>
>>Anyone have experience with such a device?
>>
>>Sylvia.
>
>I like a scope with a screen and knobs. The Rigols are great. We
>haven't had trouble with one yet, out of a dozen at least.
Maybe, but they're all still young so it's not a fair comparison
against say a Tek or a Philips or even a Hameg, many of which are
still going strong 40+ years on. I can't see anything made in China
lasting a fraction of that.
>
>Sharp color traces, infinite storage, cursors, time and voltage
>precision, signal averaging, all are wonderful compared to an old
>analog scope. And you can lift one with one hand.
Any analogue scope made after about 1970 you should be able to lift
with one hand! (and you can't have "infinite storage" either).
wrote:
>On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 14:06:35 +1000, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>My 40 year old scope seems to have failed again the same way it did a
>>while back - one of the X-axis drive transistors has failed - the same
>>one as last time. Could just be chance again, but one has to wonder.
>>
>>If I had a replacement, I'd use it, but either I only sourced one last
>>time, or I've lost the other(s). Either way, I think I should cut my
>>losses, and get a new scope.
>>
>>My needs are fairly basic - after all, I lived with a 20MHz scope for
>>forty years. A USB/PC one would probably suffice.
>>
>>Anyone have experience with such a device?
>>
>>Sylvia.
>
>I like a scope with a screen and knobs. The Rigols are great. We
>haven't had trouble with one yet, out of a dozen at least.
against say a Tek or a Philips or even a Hameg, many of which are
still going strong 40+ years on. I can't see anything made in China
lasting a fraction of that.
>
>Sharp color traces, infinite storage, cursors, time and voltage
>precision, signal averaging, all are wonderful compared to an old
>analog scope. And you can lift one with one hand.
with one hand! (and you can't have "infinite storage" either).
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
Aug 21, 2021, 12:50:03 PM8/21/21
to
On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 16:57:19 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@nowhere.com>
Teks, few of which still work. Telequipments, Kikusuis, Philips, HPs
weren't very reliable compared to modern digitals. There isn't
actually much inside a 50 MHz scope now.
Failure rate on Rigols so far has been zero. I did see one at another
site (Lily Drone, rip) with a smashed screen.
>
>>
>>Sharp color traces, infinite storage, cursors, time and voltage
>>precision, signal averaging, all are wonderful compared to an old
>>analog scope. And you can lift one with one hand.
>
>Any analogue scope made after about 1970 you should be able to lift
>with one hand! (and you can't have "infinite storage" either).
> --
>
>"By 2030, you will own nothing and be happy about it."
>
> - Klaus Schwab, World Economic Forum CEO.
That quote is absurd. People like to own stuff. I bet that Schwab guy
owns a lot of things in 2030.
2030 is only 9 years off.
wrote:
>On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 08:14:51 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 14:06:35 +1000, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>My 40 year old scope seems to have failed again the same way it did a
>>>while back - one of the X-axis drive transistors has failed - the same
>>>one as last time. Could just be chance again, but one has to wonder.
>>>
>>>If I had a replacement, I'd use it, but either I only sourced one last
>>>time, or I've lost the other(s). Either way, I think I should cut my
>>>losses, and get a new scope.
>>>
>>>My needs are fairly basic - after all, I lived with a 20MHz scope for
>>>forty years. A USB/PC one would probably suffice.
>>>
>>>Anyone have experience with such a device?
>>>
>>>Sylvia.
>>
>>I like a scope with a screen and knobs. The Rigols are great. We
>>haven't had trouble with one yet, out of a dozen at least.
>
>Maybe, but they're all still young so it's not a fair comparison
>against say a Tek or a Philips or even a Hameg, many of which are
>still going strong 40+ years on. I can't see anything made in China
>lasting a fraction of that.
Most of our old analog scopes died. I have a collection of big old
>On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 08:14:51 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 14:06:35 +1000, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>My 40 year old scope seems to have failed again the same way it did a
>>>while back - one of the X-axis drive transistors has failed - the same
>>>one as last time. Could just be chance again, but one has to wonder.
>>>
>>>If I had a replacement, I'd use it, but either I only sourced one last
>>>time, or I've lost the other(s). Either way, I think I should cut my
>>>losses, and get a new scope.
>>>
>>>My needs are fairly basic - after all, I lived with a 20MHz scope for
>>>forty years. A USB/PC one would probably suffice.
>>>
>>>Anyone have experience with such a device?
>>>
>>>Sylvia.
>>
>>I like a scope with a screen and knobs. The Rigols are great. We
>>haven't had trouble with one yet, out of a dozen at least.
>
>Maybe, but they're all still young so it's not a fair comparison
>against say a Tek or a Philips or even a Hameg, many of which are
>still going strong 40+ years on. I can't see anything made in China
>lasting a fraction of that.
Teks, few of which still work. Telequipments, Kikusuis, Philips, HPs
weren't very reliable compared to modern digitals. There isn't
actually much inside a 50 MHz scope now.
Failure rate on Rigols so far has been zero. I did see one at another
site (Lily Drone, rip) with a smashed screen.
>
>>
>>Sharp color traces, infinite storage, cursors, time and voltage
>>precision, signal averaging, all are wonderful compared to an old
>>analog scope. And you can lift one with one hand.
>
>Any analogue scope made after about 1970 you should be able to lift
>with one hand! (and you can't have "infinite storage" either).
> --
>
>"By 2030, you will own nothing and be happy about it."
>
> - Klaus Schwab, World Economic Forum CEO.
owns a lot of things in 2030.
2030 is only 9 years off.
Trevor Wilson
Aug 21, 2021, 3:42:11 PM8/21/21
to
a new one, then Rigol is your first choice. Make certain is is one of
the new models. I use a DS1054z. DO NOT buy the DS1052. It is a
significantly inferior scope. I owned one a few years back and it was
reasonable, but not a patch on the latest models. As an alternative, I
recently purchased a Siglent:
https://www.wavecom.com.au/product_view.php?id_product=1035
From the local distributor for my offsider. It appears to be a very
decent product, at an extremely competitive price. This one should do
all you require at a slightly lower price:
https://www.wavecom.com.au/product_view.php?id_product=1015
Personally, I would spend the extra few Bucks (which I did),
For my part, I won't be going back to an analogue scope anytime soon
(though I have kept my old Tek just in case). Cheap, modern DSOs are
very impressive and versatile instruments. FFT analysis? No problems.
Simultaneous display of peak, RMS, frequency and lots of other features
of the signal being tested? No problems. Don't know which settings to
use to display a signal? No problems. One button will correctly set the
scope to display a given signal.
Oh and don't waste your money and time with one of those USB jobbies.
They just don't represent value for money.
As Phil has stated, an old BWD is not a bad choice, as they were built
in Australia and parts tend to be generic and easy to buy. They're
generally pretty easy to repair too. Teks are not easy to repair, but
then they don't go wrong very often either.
Sylvia Else
Aug 21, 2021, 8:03:13 PM8/21/21
to
On 21-Aug-21 2:06 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
> My 40 year old scope seems to have failed again the same way it did a
> while back - one of the X-axis drive transistors has failed - the same
> one as last time. Could just be chance again, but one has to wonder.
Further examination shows that it's actually the corresponding
> My 40 year old scope seems to have failed again the same way it did a
> while back - one of the X-axis drive transistors has failed - the same
> one as last time. Could just be chance again, but one has to wonder.
transistor in the other half of the X-drive circuit. Which makes a
warped kind of sense, so I will try replacing it.
Sylvia.
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
Aug 22, 2021, 12:07:22 AM8/22/21
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On Sun, 22 Aug 2021 10:03:10 +1000, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid>
wrote:
It takes a scope to fix a scope.
wrote:
Sylvia Else
Aug 22, 2021, 12:14:41 AM8/22/21
to
Sometimes, perhaps. But in this case, the symptom is that half the
x-axis doesn't get used, with a bright dot in the middle instead. And I
already knew that failure of a transistor in the final x-axis amplifier
could cause this.
Sylvia.
x-axis doesn't get used, with a bright dot in the middle instead. And I
already knew that failure of a transistor in the final x-axis amplifier
could cause this.
Sylvia.
Phil Allison
Aug 22, 2021, 12:57:32 AM8/22/21
to
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
===================================
JL always thinks in such dumb cliches.
One of my nice analog scopes developed a sudden fault about 30 years ago - no trace.
Having a schem and being already familiar with it's insides, I checked a few voltages with a DMM.
Soon found the Y amp outputs were way out of balance.
Checked every BJT for junctions and C-E shorts - no luck.
Just for fun, I next tested every 1/3 watt MF resistor.
Low probability there.
However, one 22kohm ( with about 50VDC normally across ) it tested open.
When replaced, my normal program resumed.
..... Phil
===================================
>
> >> My 40 year old scope seems to have failed again the same way it did a
> >> while back - one of the X-axis drive transistors has failed - the same
> >> one as last time. Could just be chance again, but one has to wonder.
> >
> >Further examination shows that it's actually the corresponding
> >transistor in the other half of the X-drive circuit. Which makes a
> >warped kind of sense, so I will try replacing it.
>
> >> My 40 year old scope seems to have failed again the same way it did a
> >> while back - one of the X-axis drive transistors has failed - the same
> >> one as last time. Could just be chance again, but one has to wonder.
> >
> >Further examination shows that it's actually the corresponding
> >transistor in the other half of the X-drive circuit. Which makes a
> >warped kind of sense, so I will try replacing it.
>
> It takes a scope to fix a scope.
** LOL !!
JL always thinks in such dumb cliches.
One of my nice analog scopes developed a sudden fault about 30 years ago - no trace.
Having a schem and being already familiar with it's insides, I checked a few voltages with a DMM.
Soon found the Y amp outputs were way out of balance.
Checked every BJT for junctions and C-E shorts - no luck.
Just for fun, I next tested every 1/3 watt MF resistor.
Low probability there.
However, one 22kohm ( with about 50VDC normally across ) it tested open.
When replaced, my normal program resumed.
..... Phil
jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
Aug 22, 2021, 1:06:40 AM8/22/21
to
On Sun, 22 Aug 2021 14:14:37 +1000, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid>
wrote:
I was right. It fixed itself.
wrote:
Clocky
Aug 22, 2021, 9:37:05 PM8/22/21
to
On 21/08/2021 11:14 pm, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 14:06:35 +1000, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> My 40 year old scope seems to have failed again the same way it did a
>> while back - one of the X-axis drive transistors has failed - the same
>> one as last time. Could just be chance again, but one has to wonder.
>>
>> If I had a replacement, I'd use it, but either I only sourced one last
>> time, or I've lost the other(s). Either way, I think I should cut my
>> losses, and get a new scope.
>>
>> My needs are fairly basic - after all, I lived with a 20MHz scope for
>> forty years. A USB/PC one would probably suffice.
>>
>> Anyone have experience with such a device?
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> I like a scope with a screen and knobs. The Rigols are great. We
> haven't had trouble with one yet, out of a dozen at least.
>
> Sharp color traces, infinite storage, cursors, time and voltage
> precision, signal averaging, all are wonderful compared to an old
> analog scope. And you can lift one with one hand.
>
>
>
I have had a BWD scope for quite some time but after I bought a pretty
> On Sat, 21 Aug 2021 14:06:35 +1000, Sylvia Else <syl...@email.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> My 40 year old scope seems to have failed again the same way it did a
>> while back - one of the X-axis drive transistors has failed - the same
>> one as last time. Could just be chance again, but one has to wonder.
>>
>> If I had a replacement, I'd use it, but either I only sourced one last
>> time, or I've lost the other(s). Either way, I think I should cut my
>> losses, and get a new scope.
>>
>> My needs are fairly basic - after all, I lived with a 20MHz scope for
>> forty years. A USB/PC one would probably suffice.
>>
>> Anyone have experience with such a device?
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> I like a scope with a screen and knobs. The Rigols are great. We
> haven't had trouble with one yet, out of a dozen at least.
>
> Sharp color traces, infinite storage, cursors, time and voltage
> precision, signal averaging, all are wonderful compared to an old
> analog scope. And you can lift one with one hand.
>
>
>
basic Siglent the BWD was relegated to the garage where it rarely sees
any use for the reasons you mentioned.
Trevor Wilson
Aug 22, 2021, 11:30:32 PM8/22/21
to
Pretty impressive piece of kit for the money. For an infrequent user,
I'd suggest it ahead of a Rigol.
Phil Allison
Aug 23, 2021, 12:31:18 AM8/23/21
to
Trevor Wilson wrote:
=================
Mad Texan JL trolled:
Grainy and dotty is what they look like with barely useable 8 bit res.
Then there is very poor ( non constant) bandwidth at most X settings and of course the evils of aliasing.
Frequency measurements are problematic at best, change the time base and you change the reading.
Being menu driven means you spend lots of time fiddling about with the scope.
You can never be sure what is on the screen is real.
Signals that have stopped persist on the screen so nothing happens in real time.
Using a DSO is like playing a tedious, video game version of a real game.
...... Phil
=================
Mad Texan JL trolled:
> >> Sharp color traces, infinite storage, cursors, time and voltage
> >> precision, signal averaging, all are wonderful compared to an old
> >> analog scope. And you can lift one with one hand.
** Cheap DSOs do not have sharp traces at all.
> >> precision, signal averaging, all are wonderful compared to an old
> >> analog scope. And you can lift one with one hand.
Grainy and dotty is what they look like with barely useable 8 bit res.
Then there is very poor ( non constant) bandwidth at most X settings and of course the evils of aliasing.
Frequency measurements are problematic at best, change the time base and you change the reading.
Being menu driven means you spend lots of time fiddling about with the scope.
You can never be sure what is on the screen is real.
Signals that have stopped persist on the screen so nothing happens in real time.
Using a DSO is like playing a tedious, video game version of a real game.
...... Phil
Clocky
Aug 24, 2021, 8:01:58 AM8/24/21
to
You just don't know how to use one.
Phil Allison
Aug 24, 2021, 9:18:41 AM8/24/21
to
Clocky wrote:
-------------------
> You just don't know how to use one.
** Dear Clocky - whoever the fuck you really are.
Seriously, you have to be THE * patron saint* of congenitally, ASD fucked half wits.
Pet Chimps wearing soiled, disposable nappies fall about laughing at your pronouncements.
It's absolutely great that you bring such comic relief to this sad planet.
While simultaneously and effortlessly making yourself look like a total ass.
Congrats.
...... Phil
-------------------
>
> > Using a DSO is like playing a tedious, video game version of a real game.
>
> > ...... Phil
> >
> Rubbish.
** ROTFLMFAO !!!
> > Using a DSO is like playing a tedious, video game version of a real game.
>
> > ...... Phil
> >
> Rubbish.
> You just don't know how to use one.
Seriously, you have to be THE * patron saint* of congenitally, ASD fucked half wits.
Pet Chimps wearing soiled, disposable nappies fall about laughing at your pronouncements.
It's absolutely great that you bring such comic relief to this sad planet.
While simultaneously and effortlessly making yourself look like a total ass.
Congrats.
...... Phil
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