PowerMac 5500/225 freezing - overheating ?

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Andrew Allport

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Feb 27, 2001, 6:16:19 AM2/27/01
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Hi All,
I was hoping somebody may have seen this problem, or something like it,
before.
I have a PowerMac 5500/225 that freezes EVERY time I use it.
I have done some testing which includes :

- seems to freeze after about 35 minutes from a cold start then after about 8
minutes for warm restarts. The 8 minutes was pretty consistent while playing
Ambrosia's Mars Rising.
- Reseated the RAM and the cache
- Removed the heat sink from the CPU, applied new heat sink compound and
replaced.
- Run Disk First Aid (no problems reported)
- Run Nortons Disk Doctor (reported problems fixed)

I have attempted to reinstal the OS (8.1) but the computer freezes during
installation (after booting from the CD !)

It seems like it may be a problem with the memory but I would like to be able
to prove it before forking out for new SIMMs.

Any assistance MUCH appreciated

Regards
Andrew

L.M. Lascelles

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Feb 27, 2001, 4:58:21 AM2/27/01
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In article <3a9b7fd0$0$25469$7f31...@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au>,
ascal...@dingoblue.net.au (Andrew Allport) wrote:

Andrew

I am experiencing exactly the same problem with my 7600/200 although the
freezes seem to be more random, aveaging about 20 minutes.

It began when I added 64Mb of RAM. I had 96 (2x16, 2x32) and added 2x32.

When Iremoved the additional RASM the problem seemed to go away. I
considered that it could be the new RAM but removing the old RAM also
solved the problem. That left the processor and motherboard. I replaced
the processor and the problem was worse. I fitted all my RAM, HD etc to
another computer but the problem persists.

No answer as yet so I hope someone has a solution.

Regards

Bob Lascelles

--
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Andrew

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Feb 27, 2001, 6:11:54 AM2/27/01
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You do not mention the CPU fan, why ? Is it missing or present (should be). ? If
it has siezed up the cpu may be overheating. Can you take it off & test it on a
12v battery ? Does the cpu feel too hot ?
This model has only a small heatsink, to give clearance to a pci card option.
Does it freeze even while just sitting there idling? If so it may be the cpu
overheating. There is also the powersupply fan, of course, which means you cant
tell by listening if the cpu fan is spinning.. If it freezes on disk activity it
is more likely to be bad blocks on the hard drive.

cheers Andrew Beavis

Andrew Allport

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Feb 27, 2001, 5:39:53 PM2/27/01
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Sorry, when I referred to removing the heat sink, I meant the heat sink with
the fan attached. I'll check the fan seperately. I had thought that it was OK
as I could hear it and feel the air being moved around in the case. I didn't,
however, realise there was a fan in the power supply also.
Regards
Andrew
In article <3A9B8ACF...@ozemail.com.au>, Andrew <mac...@ozemail.com.au>
wrote:

Kevin Alexander

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Feb 27, 2001, 9:56:37 PM2/27/01
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I just replaced the cpu fan in my 5500/225, a 5 minute job. The fan was
real noisy when it was going. Never experienced any over heating symptoms
though. On an aside, any suppliers out there for the cpu fans other than
Apple? $40 a shot seems high...

Thanks
Kevin

In article <97h6nt$oeu$1...@gossamer.itmel.bhp.com.au>,

Andrew

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Feb 27, 2001, 10:59:08 PM2/27/01
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I just replaced the cpu fan in my 5500/225, a 5 minute job. The fan was
real noisy when it was going. Never experienced any over heating symptoms
though. On an aside, any suppliers out there for the cpu fans other than
Apple? $40 a shot seems high...
•••••••••••••••••••••••

I have used a couple of different fans.. The best was a Dick Smith model from there
parts section that has ball bearings. So far its going well.... about $20

I have run the cpu for a few minutes with the fan disconnected & no problems, so
i'm really not sure its the problem in his case...

cheers Andrew

Luke Maslen

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Feb 28, 2001, 8:35:34 AM2/28/01
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In article <3a9b7fd0$0$25469$7f31...@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au>,
ascal...@dingoblue.net.au (Andrew Allport) wrote:

>- Run Disk First Aid (no problems reported)
>- Run Nortons Disk Doctor (reported problems fixed)

>I have attempted to reinstal the OS (8.1) but the computer freezes during
>installation (after booting from the CD !)
>
>It seems like it may be a problem with the memory but I would like to be able
>to prove it before forking out for new SIMMs.

Hi Andrew,

I suspect that your problem is unrelated to overheating. I would
suggest that you visit <http://www.versiontracker.com> and download the
following utilities (use the search feature to find them on
VersionTracker):

* Drive Setup 1.7.3
* TechTool 1.2.1
* Newer Gauge Pro 1.1

After downloading these utilities, restart with extensions off and
launch Newer Gauge Pro. Go to the File menu and choose Memory Tests.
Then choose to quit all applications and "run continuously." Allow it
to run for an hour or so and see if it reports any errors. If it does
then RAM does seem to be your problem. Otherwise, continue with the
testing below.

It is possible that you have defective blocks on your hard disk. Open
the Drive Setup disk image and copy the Drive Setup utility to a floppy
disk. Restart your PowerMac 5500 from its system CD and then insert the
floppy. Launch Drive Setup, select your hard disk from the list of
drives that it finds, go to the Functions menu and choose Test Disk.
This process could take about 2 hours.

At the end of the bad block test, go to the Functions menu and choose
Update Driver. This will install a much newer driver than the one that
is installed by Mac OS 8.1 and the newer driver overcomes a number of
problems which might be contributing to your problem. Restart your Mac
normally after the driver has been updated.

If this still doesn't help, launch TechTool 1.2.1 and click on the PRAM
Zap button. Don't bother to save the PRAM settings. The computer will
then restart. You will find that some of your control panels will have
reset themselves to default values and so you will need to set them up
again:

* AppleTalk
* Map - "find" your state's capital city and then click on "set." Do
this before setting the date & time.
* Date & Time
* Mouse
* Memory
* Monitors & Sound
* Mouse
* Startup Disk

Once you have configured these control panels, restart for the changes
to take effect.

Now see if your freezing problem persists. If it does, it is important
that you attempt to reinstall your system software. Given that you
experience a freeze when attempting to do this after restarting from the
CD, try the following trick. With the system CD inserted, restart the
Mac with extensions off by holding down the SHIFT key at startup time
until you see the message, "Welcome to Mac OS, extensions off." Because
the system CD was inserted before the Mac started up, and because there
is a bootable disk driver embedded on the CD, it will still appear on
your desktop. Go ahead and see if you can reinstall the system without
freezing.

Good luck!

Regards,

Luke Maslen.

Op's

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Feb 28, 2001, 7:24:27 PM2/28/01
to


> Now see if your freezing problem persists. If it does, it is important
> that you attempt to reinstall your system software. Given that you
> experience a freeze when attempting to do this after restarting from the
> CD, try the following trick. With the system CD inserted, restart the
> Mac with extensions off by holding down the SHIFT key at startup time
> until you see the message, "Welcome to Mac OS, extensions off." Because
> the system CD was inserted before the Mac started up, and because there
> is a bootable disk driver embedded on the CD, it will still appear on
> your desktop. Go ahead and see if you can reinstall the system without
> freezing.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Regards,
>
> Luke Maslen.

Had a problem with freezing up turned out to be a virus - this caused the computer
to freeze every 30 minutes. Ran Virex which cleared it.

rm

Luke Maslen

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Mar 1, 2001, 7:48:13 AM3/1/01
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In article <3A9D96BA...@wollongong.apana.org.au>,
Op's <mar...@wollongong.apana.org.au> wrote:

>Had a problem with freezing up turned out to be a virus - this caused the
>computer
>to freeze every 30 minutes. Ran Virex which cleared it.
>
>rm


That is a very good point and is definitely worth checking. However,
Andrew's freezing problem even occurs when he has started from his
system CD and is installing system software and so that can't be due to
a virus.

However, maybe he is unlucky enough to have two independant freezing
problems so checking the hard disk with Virex would be a good idea.

Regards,

Luke Maslen.

Andrew Allport

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Mar 1, 2001, 6:16:05 PM3/1/01
to

Well, I gave it a go last night (for about 5 hours !!). I downloaded and ran
Newer Gauge Pro for about an hour which reported no problems with the memory.
I installed the driver from Drive Setup 1.7.3 and restarted - still freezing.
Ran Drive Setup's Test Disk utility which came up clean. Zapped PRAM - still
freezing. This called for drastic measures.

I managed to initialise the HDD and reinstall OS 8.0 then upgrade to 8.1. This
was at around 10:40. When I restarted it ran for a few minutes and froze.
I even changed the keyboard and mouse to no avail (I was getting
desperate). That was enough for one day.

I'm going to check the fan on the CPU, again, and the power supply over the
weekend sometime. I think the fact that I have reinitialised and got nothing
other than a clean install of the OS on the machine indicates some sort of
hardware problem. The memory has tested OK and I have the same problems
whether the cache card is present or not.

I know this can be a good machine but I'm getting towards the end of my tether
now.

Wish me luck.
Regards
Andrew

Bobby's Dad

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Mar 1, 2001, 7:07:31 PM3/1/01
to

Andrew Allport wrote:

Isn't there some sort of 5500 Hardware/Logic Board problem associated with that machine.
I believe there's a Fix or a Test piece of software on most Mac OS CD's that checks for it .
Look for something with "55xx" in it's title or similar.I'm also under the impression that
there is also an Apple extended warranty covering it.
I know I'm a being a bit vague on the issue but I'm a bit vague with life in general .......
Best of luck.

Bobby's Dad

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Mar 1, 2001, 7:20:16 PM3/1/01
to

Bobby's Dad wrote:

>
>
> Isn't there some sort of 5500 Hardware/Logic Board problem associated with that machine.
> I believe there's a Fix or a Test piece of software on most Mac OS CD's that checks for it .
> Look for something with "55xx" in it's title or similar.I'm also under the impression that
> there is also an Apple extended warranty covering it.
> I know I'm a being a bit vague on the issue but I'm a bit vague with life in general .......
> Best of luck.

After checking my OS 9 CD (and I think it's the same for OS8 too) look in the Utilities folder for "5xxx/6xxx Tester"
and run it. I think it might be relevant.

This is what the "read me" says:

*

About the 5XXX/6XXX Tester

This document describes the 5XXX/6XXX Tester application. This application checks Power Macintosh and Performa 5200,
5300, 6200, and 6300 series computers for hardware problems that may cause the computer to freeze. The tester only
works on Power Macintosh and Performa 5200, 5300, 6200, and 6300 series computers.

IMPORTANT The Power Macintosh or Performa 6360 does not have this hardware problem. If you have a Power Macintosh or
Performa 6360, you do not need to use the tester program.

If you are experiencing problems with your computer other than system freezing, you should contact an Apple-authorized
service provider to obtain a full diagnostic test.

How to use the tester application

To use the tester application, double-click its icon.

After the tester has checked your computer, you’ll see a message. If the message indicates that a problem has been
found, contact an Apple-authorized service provider or Apple customer support to have your computer repaired. The
necessary repairs are covered under a repair extension program.

© 1996 Apple Computer, Inc. All rights reserved.
Apple, the Apple logo, Performa, and Power Macintosh are trademarks of Apple Computer, Inc., registered in the U.S. and
other countries.

Updated December 16, 1996.

Andrew Allport

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Mar 1, 2001, 8:45:59 PM3/1/01
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In article <3A9EE73A...@mac.com.au>, Bobby's Dad <twe...@mac.com.au> wrote:
>
>
>Bobby's Dad wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Isn't there some sort of 5500 Hardware/Logic Board problem associated with
> that machine.
>> I believe there's a Fix or a Test piece of software on most Mac OS CD's that
> checks for it .
>> Look for something with "55xx" in it's title or similar.I'm also under the
> impression that
>> there is also an Apple extended warranty covering it.
>> I know I'm a being a bit vague on the issue but I'm a bit vague with life in
> general .......
>> Best of luck.
>
>After checking my OS 9 CD (and I think it's the same for OS8 too) look in the
> Utilities folder for "5xxx/6xxx Tester"
>and run it. I think it might be relevant.
>
>This is what the "read me" says:
>
>*
>
>About the 5XXX/6XXX Tester
>
>This document describes the 5XXX/6XXX Tester application. This application
> checks Power Macintosh and Performa 5200,
>5300, 6200, and 6300 series computers for hardware problems that may cause the
> computer to freeze. The tester only
>works on Power Macintosh and Performa 5200, 5300, 6200, and 6300 series
> computers.
>

<snip>

Thanks for that. I'll add that to my list of things to check.

Mich_Sydney

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Mar 3, 2001, 10:11:39 PM3/3/01
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In article <97mqcp$m9a$1...@gossamer.itmel.bhp.com.au>, Andrew Allport
<ascal...@dingoblue.net.au> wrote:

Not relevant for the 5500 -- when you run it will tell you that the
utility is not for your machine (i.e. your machine is 55oo, not
5200/5300/6200/6300.

--
regards -- Mich
--
I fully support free speech, especially that which is delivered with courtesy.
Pls post replies to the group - thanks
--

David

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Mar 4, 2001, 2:16:52 AM3/4/01
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Twice I have had this problem with a Mac (2 different Macs tho)

1. On my Mac 5400 I encountered freezing up without any apparent
pattern - after much mucking around found it was a faulty DIMM, although
all the tests I tried reckoned it was OK.

To test, remove one of your DIMMS and see if the problem persists - if
its still there replace that DIMM and remove the other - test again.

The above is any test and doesn't take long - its worth trying

2. My Mac 7300 started freezing for no apparent reason - after some
investigation (like most the things you have already tried) found it was
due to a faulty HD, although Nor tons would report it as OK. Replaced
the HD and all was well again

To test, disconnect the HD and boot from a CD.

Might be worth a try
anyway, good luck
David

Volker Greulich

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Mar 3, 2001, 8:56:50 PM3/3/01
to
L.M. Lascelles <lasc...@t130.aone.net.au> wrote:

> I am experiencing exactly the same problem with my 7600/200 although the
> freezes seem to be more random, aveaging about 20 minutes.
>
> It began when I added 64Mb of RAM. I had 96 (2x16, 2x32) and added 2x32.
>
> When Iremoved the additional RASM the problem seemed to go away. I
> considered that it could be the new RAM but removing the old RAM also
> solved the problem. That left the processor and motherboard. I replaced
> the processor and the problem was worse. I fitted all my RAM, HD etc to
> another computer but the problem persists.
>
> No answer as yet so I hope someone has a solution.

Whe I encountered the start up problems with my Powerwave (you can see
my adventures under "Powerwave not working") I was applying all the
measures normally recommended for this type of faillure,like battery
check,PS check,fan,resetting "CUDA", Ram -zapping,verifying and
reseating memorychips,taking out all SCSI -items etc.
After all those testing I was more or less convinced,that the main board
was fried.

Now,I found out that the ROM chip,which on a Powwerwave is not soldered
on the main board,but is a tiny daugther card to the mainboard which
uses a slot similair to the RAM chips.

If your 7600 does not have the ROM chip soldered to the main board it
might be an idea to look at this.

regards and good luck
Volker Greulich

nicholaspowell btinternet.com

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Mar 4, 2001, 3:01:12 PM3/4/01
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our 5500 does this all te time - has done for 3 yeas. Just leave it to
warmup for 1/2 hr then reboot then all works as it shoould.
> From: Mark <al...@kcbbs.gen.nz>
> Organization: KC Computer Services
> Newsgroups:
> aus.computers.mac,comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.sy
> stem
> Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 00:30:45 +1300
> Subject: Re: PowerMac 5500/225 freezing - overheating ?
>
> In article <lascelles-A57ED...@news.twb.aone.net.au>,
> It could be the RAM itself may be a little "twitchy".
> Swap some in and out and see what happens.
> I have a little utility called RAMometer. It reads and writes to all
> free memory not used. If it gets an error, the RAM is "twitchy".
> Hardware memory tests may NOT detect the problem, a friend had a twitcht
> RAM problem.
> Email me if you want the utility, it's not that big.
> remove the obvious
> alpha###@kcbbs.gen.nz

Luke Maslen

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Mar 7, 2001, 7:43:44 AM3/7/01
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In article <97mhjn$g1v$1...@gossamer.itmel.bhp.com.au>,
ascal...@dingoblue.net.au (Andrew Allport) wrote:

>I know this can be a good machine but I'm getting towards the end of my tether
>now.


Hi Andrew,

My news server has been down for a few days so I hadn't seen your
message until now. It is good that you have run the tests as it
eliminates many variables. Did you run the virus check?

The utility referenced by "Bobby's Dad" applies to many Performa
machines but not your model.

You may like to visit
<http://www.versiontracker.com/systems/model5500.shtml> for a listing of
updates applicable to your model of Mac.

Lastly, if you happen to have access to a copy of Hard Disk Toolkit 4.0,
run a comprehensive device test including a device self test. If no
problems are reported, install HDT 4.0 and enable the "S.M.A.R.T" test
for your hard disk. The device test and the "S.M.A.R.T" test check to
see if the the hard disk mechanism is failing even if the hard disk
platter isn't physically damaged.

Alternatively, forget about running the tests and just try another hard
disk. If the freezes disappear, then your current hard disk must be
malfunctioning. This is not uncommon for a hard disk of this vintage.

As an aside, I really like the "S.M.A.R.T" test in HDT 4.0. For the
past few years, Macs have shipped with hard disks that include a
"S.M.A.R.T" chip. This chip monitors the performance of the hard disk
and looks for changes of behaviour that are indicative of impending
hardware failure. You need a piece of software, such as HDT, that can
access the "S.M.A.R.T" chip and report any problems that it finds.
Ordinarily one never even notices that the "S.M.A.R.T" test but, if it
finds a problem, a scary alert appears stating that your hard disk is
about to fail and you should immediately back up and replace the hard
disk.

This has occured on two Macs at work and, sure enough, the hard disks
failed within a week of the first warning. It was very useful to
receive the early warning. I love "S.M.A.R.T" technology.
Incidentally, "S.M.A.R.T" stands for self-monitoring and reporting
technology.

In any case, you can effectively test whether your current disk is
defective by either running HDT or replacing it with another disk. My
guess is that this is the source of your problems given the other tests
that you have already performed.

mattyd

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Mar 12, 2001, 8:09:06 PM3/12/01
to
Hi Andrew,

I own a 5500/225 also. I have never had this problem. If you are thinking of
going for the new hard drive, any new hard drive will work fine. I have a 10GB
HDD from a G3 running in mine at the moment.

Could I ask one thing, unrelated to your problem, where did you get the cache
card from? I would really like one, that is all.

Good luck in solving the problem

Greg Sigman

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Mar 13, 2001, 1:44:47 PM3/13/01
to
In article <3a9b7fd0$0$25469$7f31...@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au>,
ascal...@dingoblue.net.au (Andrew Allport) wrote:

> Hi All,
> I was hoping somebody may have seen this problem, or something like it,
> before.
> I have a PowerMac 5500/225 that freezes EVERY time I use it.

Apple shipped a batch of 5xxx/6xxx Powermacs with bad logic boards. Sounds
like you may have one. The good news is that you can download the
5xxx/6xxx tester (or look for it on your 8.1 CD, it might be in some
extras folder somewhere) and if you've got a faulty one, Apple may just
replace it for you free of charge. I know that these machines are subject
to some sort of extended repair program because of the defect, I just
can't remember how long the program was to last.

Good luck,

Greg

Mich_Sydney

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Mar 13, 2001, 3:56:34 PM3/13/01
to
In article <3AAD7121...@removethis.bigpond.net.au>, mattyd
<mdun...@removethis.bigpond.net.au> wrote:

| Hi Andrew,
|
| I own a 5500/225 also. I have never had this problem. If you are thinking of
| going for the new hard drive, any new hard drive will work fine. I have a 10GB
| HDD from a G3 running in mine at the moment.
|
| Could I ask one thing, unrelated to your problem, where did you get the cache
| card from? I would really like one, that is all.
|

[snip]

If I may, I bought mine from a fellow in US named Ernest Haggland. Cost
about $20-25 including postage (depending on exchange rate) and he was
a pleasure to deal with. Found him on eBay <gato...@yahoo.com> Works
flawlessly in my 5500/225 and was very easy to install. In fact I've
just ordered another one for a5400 I recently acquired. (P.S. I don't
get any "commision" for telling you - just wanted to report on a good
product at a bargain price from a courteous seller.)

--
regards, Mich

Andrew Allport

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Mar 13, 2001, 6:02:55 PM3/13/01
to
I've run this already and it reported nothing. I have had problems in the past
which were diagnosed as a faulty MB and the Apple Centre replaced the board,
however, the problem persisted. Turned out to be dust in the power supply.

I will be testing the possibility of a HDD failure by replacing the HDD with a
known working one even though Disk First Aid and Nortons report no problems.

I'll keep the group informed of the results.

Regards
Andrew

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