How much of an improvement is going from Pentium 166 to Pentium 233 mmx?
Liu
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0191_01BD071E.EB0DB7C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi there,
I have been asking and posting many questions about building a new pc from
scratch. I thank all those who replied with alot of helpful advice, support and
encouragement.
Some responses suggest that going from what I currently have, a Intel Pentium
166 non-mmx with 32 mb to a Intel Pentium 233 mmx with 64 mb or 96 mb does not
have the same improvements in speed as going from 486DX's to Pentiums.
I intend to build this system by mid next year 1998. So by then price would be
of not much a problem for a Pentium 233 mmx cpu and GA-586-TX3 Pro m/b and an
extra 32 or 64 mb edo dram or a new set of 3 x 32 mb sdram 10 ns dimms and a S3
Virge 4 mb video card.
But I wonder if going from a Intel Pentium 166 non-mmx to an Intel Pentium 233
mmx is worth the money or should I go for say a Pentium II-233 mhz cpu and a LX
m/b? I know that a LX m/b and Pentium II cpu would be much better at utilising
3 x 32 mb sdram dimms, but that would mean more money and the longer I have to
save up for such a system. Below are some of the programs I use.
I at least use 6-8 programs at the same time- multi-tasking up to 9-11 programs
some other days. Especially, I use Norton Anti-virus auto-protect, Magna Ram
97, IE4.01, Outlook Express, Ms Word or Ms Excel, Adobe Photo Shop 4.01,
Frontpage 98, PhotoMagic 4.0 and Omnipage Pro 7 for Win 95 most days at the same
time, switching in between apps closing and opening files. I also play some
games.
Adobe Photo Shop 4.01- very very very memory and resource hungry
Adobe Illustrator 7.0
Abode Pagemill 2.0
Adobe Acrobat 3.0
IBM VoiceType Pro UK version 3.0- same here too
Netscape Communicator 4.04
IE4.01- not as bad as Adobe Photo Shop 4.01 and IBM VoiceType 3.0
OmniPage Pro 7 for Win 95 These 8 programs are very resource and memory hungry
Paint Shop Pro 4.1
TypeReader 3.0 OCR
PhotoMagic 4.0
Ms Word 95- very resource hungry once the IBM Voice Dictation component has been
installed and loads
Ms Excel 95
Outlook Express
Frontpage 98
Claris HomePage 2.0
Norton Anti-virus 2.0 for Win 95
MagnaRam 97
SoftRam 95
Ms GIF Animator
GIF Construction Set 32 bit
MapThis
NetObject Fusion 2.20
Web Express 2.0
So is it worth getting a Pentium 233 mmx with 64 or 96 mb sdram ram? Are there
going to be games and apps that in the future would need a minium requirement
close to a Pentium 233 mmx? I know that Nuclear Strike has a recommended -not
required, minimum system requirement of Pentium 166 cpu and 32 mb of ram. Or
should I get a Pentium II-233 with 96 or 128 mb? Would that last me for the
next 5 yrs? I am intending this new system next year to be the last computer I
buy for about 3-5 yrs, I would use this system for work in the business, finance
and investment and computing industry area and would also use this system for
games, the internet, study and keeping all my personal records and info.
I don't have the money as such and will be saving up until next year- I should
have enough money by end of July 1998. I am in
Brisbane and intend to buy the system from Brisbane and no where else.
I have attached a text file of the system I intend to get, so if you have any
advice, suggestions or comments please email me.
George
------=_NextPart_000_0191_01BD071E.EB0DB7C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
name="Dream.txt"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename="Dream.txt"
Intel Pentium 233 MHZ MMX
Gigabyte GA-586-TX3 512k Cache, 90-233 mhz, MMX Support, 2 x 72 pin =
simms, 3 x 168 pin dimms, 4 x PCI, 3 X ISA, AT form.
Ports? 2 x floppy ports, 2 x parallel ports EPP/ECP, 2 x serial ports =
with UART 16550 cards, 2 x USB ports.
2 x Hyundai 32 mb sdram 10 ns =3D 64 mb sdram 10 ns dimms OR 3 x Hyundai =
32 mb sdram 10 ns =3D 96 mb sdram 10 ns dimms
Quantum 6.4 GB Fireball ST Ultra DMA/33 hard drive, 10 ms seek time, =
5400 rpm, 128 k cache +
Quantum 4.3 GB Fireball ST Ultra DMA/33 hard drive, 10 ms seek time, =
5400 rpm, 128 k cache OR
Fujitsu 4.3 GB EIDE UDMA hard drive OR Maxtor DiamondMax 5.1 GB hard =
drive.
2 x 1.44 MB Floppy drives, A & B. OR 1 x 1.44 mb floppy + 1 x LS-120 120 =
mb- 1.44 mb floppy drive
Hyundai 17" DeluxeScan 17 Pro, 0.26 mm dot pitch, horizontal frequency =
30-82 mhz, vertical 30-100 mhz, max 1600 x 1280 resolution, video =
bandwidth 135 mhz
S3 Virge 4mb video PCI card OR Tseng Labs ET-6000 PCI SVGA 4.5 mb video =
card OR Matrox Millenium II 8 mb video card ALREADY HAVE A SPARE S3 TRIO =
64+ 2 mb edo video card PCI - can Win 98 use two cards?
Sony 12 x scsi cd-rom OR Sony 24 x IDE cd-rom -Which would be faster?
Deluxe Tower casing ATX form, although m/b is only AT form with 230 watt =
or 300 watt power supply?
APC UPS 600 VA.
Logitech First Mouse Plus
Windows 95 Keyboard
Netcomm 33.6 SVD external data/fax modem OR Netcomm X2 56 K Roadster =
external SVD modem
Plustek Optic Pro 4830P A4 Flatbed scanner-ALREADY BOUGHT
Iomega external parallel port Zip Drive- ALREADY BOUGHT
4 way switch box with DB25 Male to Male I/O connector cable-ALREADY =
BOUGHT
Canon BJC-4000 Colour Printer-ALREADY BOUGHT.
------=_NextPart_000_0191_01BD071E.EB0DB7C0--
Peter Tilmanis
On Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:56:40 +1000, "Liu" <li...@usa.net> wrote:
>Some responses suggest that going from what I currently have, a Intel Pentium
>166 non-mmx with 32 mb to a Intel Pentium 233 mmx with 64 mb or 96 mb does not
>have the same improvements in speed as going from 486DX's to Pentiums.
As one person pointed out, MMX = money making extension :) If you
want real 3D performance, get a 3Dfx card, or for serious stuff, a
real graphics card. But then again it doesn't look like you have much
choice these days, with all Intel CPUs being MMX as far as I can see.
>I intend to build this system by mid next year 1998. So by then price would be
>of not much a problem for a Pentium 233 mmx cpu and GA-586-TX3 Pro m/b and an
>extra 32 or 64 mb edo dram or a new set of 3 x 32 mb sdram 10 ns dimms and a S3
>Virge 4 mb video card.
Don't bother with 3 32Mb DIMMs, you waste your slots. Get one 64Mb
and one 32Mb. So then you keep a slot free when Windows 99 or NT 6.0
comes out with a base memory requirement of 128Mb :)
>But I wonder if going from a Intel Pentium 166 non-mmx to an Intel Pentium 233
>mmx is worth the money or should I go for say a Pentium II-233 mhz cpu and a LX
>m/b?
I would wait.
> I know that a LX m/b and Pentium II cpu would be much better at utilising
>3 x 32 mb sdram dimms, but that would mean more money and the longer I have to
>save up for such a system. Below are some of the programs I use.
And in that time, the PII's will undoubtedly become cheaper. It
doesn't make too much sense to get something that is one step behind
the cutting edge today (which will be 3 or 4 steps behind come
mid-98.. the PII-233 will probably be one step behind then :)
>I at least use 6-8 programs at the same time- multi-tasking up to 9-11 programs
>some other days. Especially, I use Norton Anti-virus auto-protect, Magna Ram
>97, IE4.01, Outlook Express, Ms Word or Ms Excel, Adobe Photo Shop 4.01,
>Frontpage 98, PhotoMagic 4.0 and Omnipage Pro 7 for Win 95 most days at the same
>time.
Do yourself a favour and run Windows NT for your application needs.
It will be MUCH more reliable than Win95 (in my experience). Then you
can always boot to DOS for DOS-based games, or run DirectX games from
within Windows NT (provided you have Service Pack 3 installed).
>Adobe Photo Shop 4.01- very very very memory and resource hungry
>[...]
>Web Express 2.0
In my experience, memory makes a lot more difference than processor
speed for most common applications. But this is your DREAM PC - that
shouldn't stop you from getting that PII :)
>So is it worth getting a Pentium 233 mmx with 64 or 96 mb sdram ram? Are there
>going to be games and apps that in the future would need a minium requirement
>close to a Pentium 233 mmx?
It's a question of when, not if. And if you're a serious gamer I'd
also throw in a 3Dfx card (if you can afford the extra $300 or so). A
new 'wave' of 3Dfx cards should hit the market soon too, with even
more speed improvements.
> I know that Nuclear Strike has a recommended -not
>required, minimum system requirement of Pentium 166 cpu and 32 mb of ram. Or
>should I get a Pentium II-233 with 96 or 128 mb? Would that last me for the
>next 5 yrs? I am intending this new system next year to be the last computer I
>buy for about 3-5 yrs, I would use this system for work in the business, finance
>and investment and computing industry area and would also use this system for
>games, the internet, study and keeping all my personal records and info.
It'd be MORE than adequate for your business applications. Games,
bah, who knows - they seem to pile on more graphics and sound every
day.
>I don't have the money as such and will be saving up until next year- I should
>have enough money by end of July 1998. I am in
>Brisbane and intend to buy the system from Brisbane and no where else.
Basically it all depends on how much you have available to spend. If
money were no object, I'd get the PII-233 with 128Mb of RAM and a 3Dfx
card. If i were to skimp anywhere, it'd be with the processor, maybe
take the speed down a notch or two. If you were a serious gamer, keep
the 3Dfx card there, otherwise, bon voyage. I wouldn't dream of using
a computer with less than 64Mb of RAM these days (especially with
Windows NT - and that RAM is so cheap).
--
Peter Tilmanis
pet...@minerva.com.au
Michael O'Toole
There was a lot in the previous message, so I won't repeat it.
First, the processor.
Upgrading to a 233 MMX is probably not wise. The performance gains would be
limited, and you would be tying yourself to a motherboard based on at best
the 430TX chipset. Also, 233 is the higest the Pentium/MMX series is going
to go.
A PII would be a good idea, if only for the Slot 1 technology. Think of it
as buying into new technology, rather than supercharging the old one. There
is only one more Socket 7 (430TX) CPU coming out that will be worth the
extra cash: the AMD K6+3D. At the moment, you're looking at mid/late 1998.
If you can wait till then, you'll be able to get one, but you'll need a
motherboard with 100MHz bus (ie, 440LX) to really get the grunt out of it.
(350MHz!)
In that case, I'd wait untill Slot 2 technology becomes
available/affordable, hopefully late next year. If you wait (and save up)
this will allow you to head off into the unknown (as yet) realms of
advanced PII derivatives and, even better, the K7!
So it looks like the 233 might already be obselete, in MMX or PII form.
As far as graphics cards go, wait for a while, and get a motherboard with
an AGP slot. (A K6+3D supports this!) Then buy a real video card. Back it
up with a 3Dfx card, preferably one with the soon-to-be-released Voodoo2
chipset.
With DRAM, go for a single 64MB SDRAM DIMM. 96 is probably overkill for the
moment, but, if you have one 64MB DIMM, you can easily upgrade in the
future for around $100.
So, wait about eight months. Your 166 will be fine untill then. Then go for
a K6+3D or (recommended) a K7 or PII successor with 64MB RAM, an AGP video
card (like a Diamond Viper, or somehing else with an nVidea chipset) and a
3Dfx Voodoo2 3D card.
Of course, you could just by an SGI graphics station...
Andrew Scott
Actually not true......
AMD and Cyrix as well as another new manufacturer are all going to keep
supporting the socket 7 design.... All 3 will have 300mhz version around the
first quarter of 98 and expect the 3 to have them as high as 400mhz by the
end of the 98 year...
These can be found on the net if you look.
Michael O'Toole wrote in message <01bd0b54$153fc0e0$6a5f3fcb@amd-k6>...
Michael O'Toole
Andrew Scott <andr...@beam.com.au> wrote in article
<67a1v6$47$1...@reader1.reader.news.ozemail.net>...
> Actually not true......
>
> AMD and Cyrix as well as another new manufacturer are all going to
keep
> supporting the socket 7 design.... All 3 will have 300mhz version around
the
> first quarter of 98 and expect the 3 to have them as high as 400mhz by
the
> end of the 98 year...
>
> These can be found on the net if you look.
>
>
While you're right, Socket 7 is still the current technology. If you're on
a tight budget, I agree with Andrew, but the possibilities opened up by
Socket 1 and 2 are more open-ended.
Also, it's very difficult to get motherboards with a socket 7 that support
AGP or the LX chipset, both of which are becoming more important.
In a way, buying into Socket 7 next year will be like buying a 486DX4/100
at the stage when the Pentium 90/100 was gaining momentum.
Michael O'Toole
Personally, however, I'd be waiting for the 430BX chipset. All the features
of the LX, like AGP, SDRAM, UDMA, plus it supports 100MHz bus speed. When
you can get this for socket 7, it provides the only realistic alternative
to PII and LX
Michael O'Toole
the message below should have read:
Michael O'Toole <mot...@quantum.net.au> wrote in article
<01bd0b6f$409abcc0$745f3fcb@amd-k6>...
>
>
> Personally, however, I'd be waiting for the VP3 chipset, and the
following MVP3, from >VIA Apollo.
>All the featuresof the LX, like AGP, SDRAM, UDMA, plus it supports 100MHz
Richard RUDEK
The VP3 is available now in the form of the FIC2012 ATX motherboard.
We just need the CPU's now...
__ __ _______________________________
//)) //)) | Richard RUDEK. MicroDek. | Most people have opinions
//\\ //\\ | Chatswood, Sydney. Australia. | .. they just don't commit
`-------------------------------'
Mike Kraus
I've always fought the evil empire by going amd or cyrix as much as
possible. But, a P2-233 runs everything considerably better than the K6 or
M2.... I think the time of denial is over... As the P2's keep dropping in
price, they're becoming more of the way to go.... Since our P2-233 cpu's
reached $400, we can't sell the k6's or cyrix's any more... When the AMD K6
3D comes out, Intel plans to have their P2-400 out in about the same time
frame. With the voodoo2's coming out before the AMD K6 3D's, that defeats
the purpose of the chip. The 100 mhz socket 8 boards will be toasted by the
slot 2's... A 200 mhz 486 board wouldn't have competed with 133mhz
pentiums. The case is the same here. As for the slot 2's being reasonable
in price, don't count on it any time soon. Intel next release of processor
is a cheaper version of the P2. Slot 2 will be focused for workstations,
and the people who buy business workstations are much less influenced by
price then the average consumer. So, prices will remain high. I spent
about $200 on a good pentium motherboard a year ago, a good P2 boards are
$200 now. So, I don't see the huge price jump.
The fact of the matter is that an AMD is a good price efficient alternative.
But, if you're building a system, you're either going to spend $2000 and get
a P2, or spend $1600 and get a second best, price efficient system. As much
time as most of our customers spend on their computers, getting the best is
worth so much more to them in enjoyment than $400. (We sell primarily
gaming computers.) Now if we sold mostly computers to read newsgroups, then
I suppose I'd try to push AMD's....
Just my thoughts....
Mike Kraus
http://www.thebarnyard.net
Michael O'Toole wrote in message <01bd0b54$153fc0e0$6a5f3fcb@amd-k6>...
>
>
>There was a lot in the previous message, so I won't repeat it.
>
>First, the processor.
>Upgrading to a 233 MMX is probably not wise. The performance gains would be
>limited, and you would be tying yourself to a motherboard based on at best
>the 430TX chipset. Also, 233 is the higest the Pentium/MMX series is going
>to go.
>A PII would be a good idea, if only for the Slot 1 technology. Think of it
>as buying into new technology, rather than supercharging the old one. There
>is only one more Socket 7 (430TX) CPU coming out that will be worth the
>extra cash: the AMD K6+3D. At the moment, you're looking at mid/late 1998.
KP2 KP2
> On Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:56:40 +1000, "Liu" <li...@usa.net> wrote:
> >166 non-mmx with 32 mb to a Intel Pentium 233 mmx with 64 mb or 96 mb does not
> >have the same improvements in speed as going from 486DX's to Pentiums.
> want real 3D performance, get a 3Dfx card, or for serious stuff, a
> real graphics card. But then again it doesn't look like you have much
> choice these days, with all Intel CPUs being MMX as far as I can see.
> >of not much a problem for a Pentium 233 mmx cpu and GA-586-TX3 Pro m/b and an
> >extra 32 or 64 mb edo dram or a new set of 3 x 32 mb sdram 10 ns dimms and a S3
> >Virge 4 mb video card.
> and one 32Mb. So then you keep a slot free when Windows 99 or NT 6.0
> comes out with a base memory requirement of 128Mb :)
> >mmx is worth the money or should I go for say a Pentium II-233 mhz cpu and a LX
> >m/b?
> >3 x 32 mb sdram dimms, but that would mean more money and the longer I have to
> >save up for such a system. Below are some of the programs I use.
> doesn't make too much sense to get something that is one step behind
> the cutting edge today (which will be 3 or 4 steps behind come
> mid-98.. the PII-233 will probably be one step behind then :)
> >some other days. Especially, I use Norton Anti-virus auto-protect, Magna Ram
> >97, IE4.01, Outlook Express, Ms Word or Ms Excel, Adobe Photo Shop 4.01,
> >Frontpage 98, PhotoMagic 4.0 and Omnipage Pro 7 for Win 95 most days at the same
> Do yourself a favour and run Windows NT for your application needs.
> It will be MUCH more reliable than Win95 (in my experience). Then you
> can always boot to DOS for DOS-based games, or run DirectX games from
> within Windows NT (provided you have Service Pack 3 installed).
> >Web Express 2.0
> In my experience, memory makes a lot more difference than processor
> speed for most common applications. But this is your DREAM PC - that
> shouldn't stop you from getting that PII :)
> >going to be games and apps that in the future would need a minium requirement
> >close to a Pentium 233 mmx?
> also throw in a 3Dfx card (if you can afford the extra $300 or so). A
> new 'wave' of 3Dfx cards should hit the market soon too, with even
> more speed improvements.
> >required, minimum system requirement of Pentium 166 cpu and 32 mb of ram. Or
> >should I get a Pentium II-233 with 96 or 128 mb? Would that last me for the
> >next 5 yrs? I am intending this new system next year to be the last computer I
> >buy for about 3-5 yrs, I would use this system for work in the business, finance
> >and investment and computing industry area and would also use this system for
> >games, the internet, study and keeping all my personal records and info.
> bah, who knows - they seem to pile on more graphics and sound every
> day.
> >have enough money by end of July 1998. I am in
> >Brisbane and intend to buy the system from Brisbane and no where else.
> money were no object, I'd get the PII-233 with 128Mb of RAM and a 3Dfx
> card. If i were to skimp anywhere, it'd be with the processor, maybe
> take the speed down a notch or two. If you were a serious gamer, keep
> the 3Dfx card there, otherwise, bon voyage. I wouldn't dream of using
> a computer with less than 64Mb of RAM these days (especially with
> Windows NT - and that RAM is so cheap).
> --
> Peter Tilmanis
> pet...@minerva.com.au