XM Falcon

[Jeßus]

I'm checking out a '64 Falcon today, does anyone know of their weak
points re: rust etc? I already know the sills aren't well in it but
just on photos alone that's about all that is obvious. Luckily I'll be
inspecting it up on a hoist which will help a lot. Thanks for any
tips.

[Noddy]

Hey mate. I'm fairly familiar with old Falcons and can pretty much help
you with what you need to be aware of.

Like any car of it's age finding one without rust is a practical
impossibility, and like most cars of their age they have common areas
that are obvious. Places sills (as you've seen), floors and rear lower
quarters are all fairly common for the era. However early Falcons have
some particular areas to be aware of such as rear wheel arches (inner
and outer), boot floors, the folded lip around the boot opening on the
quarter panels (especially in the corners), front scuttle panels behind
the bumper, front suspension outrigger brackets and front cross-member.

There's also fairly common areas for different body types, such as utes
always rust out the rear floors and spare wheel area. Wagons lose
tailgates, rear floors and rear side window areas (and the rear side
window rubbers are hard to come by). Sedans often rust around the lower
rear windscreen corners and coupes quite often cop a fair amount of rust
in the lower sections of the front and rear roof pillars.

By far one of the most common areas to all of them, and one of the most
difficult to repair is the lower wiper scuttle panel. The cars have a
"flow through" ventilation system where air is drawn in through the
slots in the wiper panel and blown out through the vent boxes under the
dash on either side of the car. Water follows this path too and is
supposed to exit out through an opening in the side of the lower scuttle
and drain off, but after a few years of dirt, leaves and whatever else
managed to find it's way in there the drain paths become blocked and
water pools and rusts the tin away with the first sign of there being a
problem is when water leaks into the front floor on either side of the car.

This is the area in question here:
> http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c389/dasgib/000_0054_zpsf8hdvxhl.jpg

Trouble is, to get access to it the viper valance panel needs to be
removed, and in order to do that you need to remove the windscreen and
unpick about 250 spot welds to remove the panel:

> http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c389/dasgib/000_0051_zpsq3q1wlby.jpg

Which is hard fucking work!

They tend to get very thin in this area with water pooling every time
the car is exposed to rain, and often the easiest fix is to simply cut
the "corner" out and fabricate a new one:

> http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c389/dasgib/000_0123_zpsbqwpj1vr.jpg

You don't say what it is or if you're buying it for yourself, but I've
collected a heap of resources for these things over the years, and have
a few contacts for parts and other bits and pieces. If you need
anything, I'm happy to help although I'll say at the outset that the
very hardest thing for them to obtain is factory stainless trim that was
originally fitted to the outside of the car along the sides. "Deluxe"
stuff isn't too bad sometimes but "Futura" trim is next to impossible to
find in individual pieces let alone complete sets and when it *is*
around people generally ask stupid money for it.

HTH.


--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Jeßus]

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 14:12:45 +1100, Noddy <m...@wardengineering.com>
wrote:

>On 23/03/16 10:25 AM, Je?us wrote:
>> I'm checking out a '64 Falcon today, does anyone know of their weak
>> points re: rust etc? I already know the sills aren't well in it but
>> just on photos alone that's about all that is obvious. Luckily I'll be
>> inspecting it up on a hoist which will help a lot. Thanks for any
>> tips.
>
>Hey mate. I'm fairly familiar with old Falcons and can pretty much help
>you with what you need to be aware of.

Excellent, thanks :)

Jesus... let's hope it's okay in that area! That's one area I didn't
inspect terribly closely.

The LH sill is 'okay' but it might be easier to replace, the rust is
mainly on the drivers side, due to it being parked in long grass (so I
am told). The RH sill is bad, also a little rust on the floor pan
immediately next to the kick panel. A bit around front cross member.
But everywhere else seems very good, including the boot, wheel arches,
around the rear window, etc. The lower wiper scuttle panel is an
unknown though.

>They tend to get very thin in this area with water pooling every time
>the car is exposed to rain, and often the easiest fix is to simply cut
>the "corner" out and fabricate a new one:
>
>> http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c389/dasgib/000_0123_zpsbqwpj1vr.jpg

Nice work. I'll have to factor in or assume this will need to be done,
as I won't get a chance to go back to take another look (it's on
ebay).

>You don't say what it is or if you're buying it for yourself, but I've
>collected a heap of resources for these things over the years, and have
>a few contacts for parts and other bits and pieces. If you need
>anything, I'm happy to help although I'll say at the outset that the
>very hardest thing for them to obtain is factory stainless trim that was
>originally fitted to the outside of the car along the sides. "Deluxe"
>stuff isn't too bad sometimes but "Futura" trim is next to impossible to
>find in individual pieces let alone complete sets and when it *is*
>around people generally ask stupid money for it.

Thanks very much Noddy, if I do get this car I'll certainly get some
advice from you. This Falcon is a sedan and it'll be for myself as a
long-ish term project. Undecided if I'd want to restore, preserve or
modify at this stage. It's pretty much original (aside from paint) and
still registered. The great thing is all the chrome and stainless trim
is there and in great condition - that was a big plus with this car
IMO.

Anyway, this is the car in question:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/xm-falcon-sedan-1964-ford-vintage-colectors-with-tas-rego-classic-car-/322042665504?

>HTH.

Certainly was, thanks again :)

[Noddy]

On 23/03/16 5:23 PM, Je�us wrote:

> Jesus... let's hope it's okay in that area! That's one area I didn't
> inspect terribly closely.
>
> The LH sill is 'okay' but it might be easier to replace, the rust is
> mainly on the drivers side, due to it being parked in long grass (so I
> am told). The RH sill is bad, also a little rust on the floor pan
> immediately next to the kick panel. A bit around front cross member.
> But everywhere else seems very good, including the boot, wheel arches,
> around the rear window, etc. The lower wiper scuttle panel is an
> unknown though.

At the end of the day it's just sheet metal, and there's nothing
particularly complicated about them. Having seen the job you did sorting
out the rolled over ute doing up one of these old tubs will be a walk in
the park :)

If you need panels I can thoroughly recommend this bloke:

> http://rustaproblem.com.au/

His name's Craig Vayne and he's excellent. He makes the panels himself,
is happy to chat to anyone who wants to ask questions and although he's
in QLD he couldn't be happier to deal mail order.

> Nice work. I'll have to factor in or assume this will need to be done,
> as I won't get a chance to go back to take another look (it's on
> ebay).

Depending on how bad it is under there you can sometimes get away with
just cutting the corner of the viper valance off to gain access and then
putting it back on afterwards. Like this for example:

> http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c389/dasgib/DCP_0623_zpszxqoph0m.jpg

That area is hidden by the top of the guard anyway, so it doesn't have
to be particularly awesome looking. If doing so will allow you to fix
the problem well and good, if not then removing the panel in it's
entirety is probably a better option. I removed mine because I had to
replace both corners and do a small repair in the centre, and wanted to
coat the entire area with body deadener when it was finished and
removing the panel just made it all easier.

> http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c389/dasgib/000_0161_zpsgmcme7b1.jpg

> Thanks very much Noddy, if I do get this car I'll certainly get some
> advice from you. This Falcon is a sedan and it'll be for myself as a
> long-ish term project. Undecided if I'd want to restore, preserve or
> modify at this stage. It's pretty much original (aside from paint) and
> still registered. The great thing is all the chrome and stainless trim
> is there and in great condition - that was a big plus with this car
> IMO.
>
> Anyway, this is the car in question:
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/xm-falcon-sedan-1964-ford-vintage-colectors-with-tas-rego-classic-car-/322042665504?

Nice.

They're an *awesome* car for a little Windsor conversion (they came out
with a 260 V8 option in the US), and there's some cool brake and
steering conversions for the things that are pretty neat *and* cost
effective.

For my own car, if I ever get around to completing it, I'm going the
"resto-mod" route. The car will be basically standard looking as far as
body & interior are concerned apart from a nice set of wheels, whereas
the mechanicals will be an injected 5 litre and overdrive auto lifted
out of a donor EL Fairlane.

Kinda something like this:
> http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c389/dasgib/xp%20coupe_zpsjqwz8ynt.jpg

Like I said, if I ever finish it. I've had the thing 13 years now and
life just gets in the way. There's currently 2 other full restorations
ahead of the poor old thing before I look like getting back to it :)

[Jeßus]

On Wed, 23 Mar 2016 21:09:49 +1100, Noddy <m...@wardengineering.com>
wrote:

>On 23/03/16 5:23 PM, Je?us wrote:
>
>> Jesus... let's hope it's okay in that area! That's one area I didn't
>> inspect terribly closely.
>>
>> The LH sill is 'okay' but it might be easier to replace, the rust is
>> mainly on the drivers side, due to it being parked in long grass (so I
>> am told). The RH sill is bad, also a little rust on the floor pan
>> immediately next to the kick panel. A bit around front cross member.
>> But everywhere else seems very good, including the boot, wheel arches,
>> around the rear window, etc. The lower wiper scuttle panel is an
>> unknown though.
>
>At the end of the day it's just sheet metal, and there's nothing
>particularly complicated about them. Having seen the job you did sorting
>out the rolled over ute doing up one of these old tubs will be a walk in
>the park :)

Thanks for the vote of confidence :) One major difference is that I'll
be dealing with rust. I've done some minor rust repairs before but
nothing on this scale.

>If you need panels I can thoroughly recommend this bloke:
>
>> http://rustaproblem.com.au/
>
>His name's Craig Vayne and he's excellent. He makes the panels himself,
>is happy to chat to anyone who wants to ask questions and although he's
>in QLD he couldn't be happier to deal mail order.

Fantastic, I'll bookmark that one.

>> Nice work. I'll have to factor in or assume this will need to be done,
>> as I won't get a chance to go back to take another look (it's on
>> ebay).
>
>Depending on how bad it is under there you can sometimes get away with
>just cutting the corner of the viper valance off to gain access and then
>putting it back on afterwards. Like this for example:
>
>> http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c389/dasgib/DCP_0623_zpszxqoph0m.jpg

Hopefully I'll get away with as little as that, assuming there is at
least some rust there.

>That area is hidden by the top of the guard anyway, so it doesn't have
>to be particularly awesome looking. If doing so will allow you to fix
>the problem well and good, if not then removing the panel in it's
>entirety is probably a better option. I removed mine because I had to
>replace both corners and do a small repair in the centre, and wanted to
>coat the entire area with body deadener when it was finished and
>removing the panel just made it all easier.
>
>> http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c389/dasgib/000_0161_zpsgmcme7b1.jpg

Yes, I can see how that would simplify things.

>> Thanks very much Noddy, if I do get this car I'll certainly get some
>> advice from you. This Falcon is a sedan and it'll be for myself as a
>> long-ish term project. Undecided if I'd want to restore, preserve or
>> modify at this stage. It's pretty much original (aside from paint) and
>> still registered. The great thing is all the chrome and stainless trim
>> is there and in great condition - that was a big plus with this car
>> IMO.
>>
>> Anyway, this is the car in question:
>> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/xm-falcon-sedan-1964-ford-vintage-colectors-with-tas-rego-classic-car-/322042665504?
>
>Nice.
>
>They're an *awesome* car for a little Windsor conversion (they came out
>with a 260 V8 option in the US), and there's some cool brake and
>steering conversions for the things that are pretty neat *and* cost
>effective.

Sounding better all the time :)

>For my own car, if I ever get around to completing it, I'm going the
>"resto-mod" route. The car will be basically standard looking as far as
>body & interior are concerned apart from a nice set of wheels, whereas
>the mechanicals will be an injected 5 litre and overdrive auto lifted
>out of a donor EL Fairlane.

Something like that would be my preferred option too, to be honest.
Keep it original looking other than a change in ride height and
perhaps different wheels. But fitting a modern engine/transmission
would be considerably more expensive than say, just keeping it wholly
original (or near to original). We shall see... I'm not rushing into
those sorts of decisions yet.

>Kinda something like this:
>> http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c389/dasgib/xp%20coupe_zpsjqwz8ynt.jpg

Yes, very nice.

>Like I said, if I ever finish it. I've had the thing 13 years now and
>life just gets in the way. There's currently 2 other full restorations
>ahead of the poor old thing before I look like getting back to it :)

Heh, it is the nature of such things :)

That may well happen to me also - we shall see. Whenever the fuck this
new shed is completed will make a huge difference here, as I'll have a
two car garage available exclusively for doing a rebuild in.

BUT I still have an LJ81 Suzuki to do first... but I expect that one
to be relatively quick and simple, and also a good project to get me
into the swing of things for this Falcon.

Still the highest bidder at this stage @ $5100...

[Jeßus]

On 24 Mar 2016 06:13:49 GMT, Andy <nos...@no.no> wrote:

>Jeßus wrote:
>
>> Still the highest bidder at this stage @ $5100...
>

>>> Winning bid:AU $5,100.00 [ 2 bids ]
>
>Congrats? :)

Yep :)

Nice to see you back on aus.cars Andy.

[Noddy]

On 24/03/16 8:35 AM, Je�us wrote:

>> At the end of the day it's just sheet metal, and there's nothing
>> particularly complicated about them. Having seen the job you did sorting
>> out the rolled over ute doing up one of these old tubs will be a walk in
>> the park :)
>
> Thanks for the vote of confidence :) One major difference is that I'll
> be dealing with rust. I've done some minor rust repairs before but
> nothing on this scale.

It's not as hard as it looks. Like most things, it's just time and patience.

>> Like I said, if I ever finish it. I've had the thing 13 years now and
>> life just gets in the way. There's currently 2 other full restorations
>> ahead of the poor old thing before I look like getting back to it :)
>
> Heh, it is the nature of such things :)
>
> That may well happen to me also - we shall see. Whenever the fuck this
> new shed is completed will make a huge difference here, as I'll have a
> two car garage available exclusively for doing a rebuild in.
>
> BUT I still have an LJ81 Suzuki to do first... but I expect that one
> to be relatively quick and simple, and also a good project to get me
> into the swing of things for this Falcon.
>
> Still the highest bidder at this stage @ $5100...

Cool.

[Jeßus]

On Thu, 24 Mar 2016 21:16:02 +1100, Noddy <m...@wardengineering.com>
wrote:

I think I got a pretty good deal on this one, it's registered,
running, entirely complete and original, aside from the paint and the
previous owner having cut the front springs and *inverted* a leaf on
each rear spring... the thing is so low I can barely fit one of my
boots under the sills :)

It does come with a new set of front springs - I'll just have to fit
them... hmm, probably more fun with spring compressors coming up. How
does the XM compare to XYs in terms of difficulty replacing coil
springs?

[Noddy]

On 25/03/16 8:09 AM, Je�us wrote:

> I think I got a pretty good deal on this one, it's registered,
> running, entirely complete and original, aside from the paint and the
> previous owner having cut the front springs and *inverted* a leaf on
> each rear spring... the thing is so low I can barely fit one of my
> boots under the sills :)

Lol :)

> It does come with a new set of front springs - I'll just have to fit
> them... hmm, probably more fun with spring compressors coming up. How
> does the XM compare to XYs in terms of difficulty replacing coil
> springs?

Pretty much exactly the same. Same front end, but the XM has a softer
spring so they're a bit easier to manoeuvre.

[Clocky]

On 24/03/2016 5:11 PM, Je�us wrote:
> On 24 Mar 2016 06:13:49 GMT, Andy <nos...@no.no> wrote:
>
>> Jeßus wrote:
>>
>>> Still the highest bidder at this stage @ $5100...
>>
>>>> Winning bid:AU $5,100.00 [ 2 bids ]
>>
>> Congrats? :)
>
> Yep :)

A good buy at that price. Well done.

[Jeßus]

>Cheers man. Not really been 'away', just lurking (ignoring the flame
>fests which seem to be 90% of the content) for the most part :)

Can't blame you for that, I skip 90% of them myself :)

>I see in another post it's registered/running/drivable, I think you
>definitely got a good deal - Hopefully this could be a sign that the
>nuttiness of the old car market (where rusted out old
>barely-running/no-running-gear-at-all shit fetches as much or more than
>you just paid for a driveable car) might be calming down a touch.

With any luck, yes. I was a little surprised during my (admittedly
limited) research on prices for XMs, they're not in the same league as
XY & XWs and were lower than I expected. I prefer Fords from XK to XT
myself - they can keep their XWs & XYs.

[Jeßus]

On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 15:23:03 +0800, Clocky <notg...@happen.com>
wrote:

Thanks, I'll be picking it up today so I'll see how she drives.

Fortunately all the roads back to my place are flat and not too
cambered, as the thing has been lowered way too much and wouldn't be
drivable on a lot of the unsealed roads here :)

[Jeßus]

On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 10:57:19 +1100, Noddy <m...@wardengineering.com>
wrote:

Well... that's something I guess :) I may even wait until I have a
front end from a later model before bothering with springs. I'd better
look into getting some spring compressors soon, the ones John recently
posted about look to be the goods.

[Noddy]

On 27/03/16 6:46 AM, Je�us wrote:

>
> Thanks, I'll be picking it up today so I'll see how she drives.
>
> Fortunately all the roads back to my place are flat and not too
> cambered, as the thing has been lowered way too much and wouldn't be
> drivable on a lot of the unsealed roads here :)

Just as well, as with their original 27:1 steering box ratio they can
take a *lot* of wheel action to catch the rear end should you get a bit
taily :)

[Noddy]

On 27/03/16 6:49 AM, Je�us wrote:

>> Pretty much exactly the same. Same front end, but the XM has a softer
>> spring so they're a bit easier to manoeuvre.
>
> Well... that's something I guess :) I may even wait until I have a
> front end from a later model before bothering with springs. I'd better
> look into getting some spring compressors soon, the ones John recently
> posted about look to be the goods.

Yeah, they're okay, although a replica of the factory compressor (or
near enough to it) isn't hard to make.

[Jeßus]

On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 10:10:34 +1100, Noddy <m...@wardengineering.com>
wrote:

>On 27/03/16 6:46 AM, Je?us wrote:
>
>> Thanks, I'll be picking it up today so I'll see how she drives.
>>
>> Fortunately all the roads back to my place are flat and not too
>> cambered, as the thing has been lowered way too much and wouldn't be
>> drivable on a lot of the unsealed roads here :)
>
>Just as well, as with their original 27:1 steering box ratio they can
>take a *lot* of wheel action to catch the rear end should you get a bit
>taily :)

Oh jesus... :)

Reminds me of an EK I drove from Townsville to Darwin many, many moons
ago. My arms got a good workout keeping the thing on the road all the
way to Darwin.

[Diesel Damo]

On Sunday, March 27, 2016 at 10:21:52 AM UTC+11, Jeßus wrote:
> Reminds me of an EK I drove from Townsville to Darwin many,
> many moons ago. My arms got a good workout keeping the
> thing on the road all the way to Darwin.

An EK? Shit mate you should have got one of those "overdrive"
diffs I've heard so much about. That would have fixed
everything plus given you an extra 100hp and an extra 5 gal
in the fuel tank.

[Noddy]

On 27/03/16 10:21 AM, Je�us wrote:

> Oh jesus... :)
>
> Reminds me of an EK I drove from Townsville to Darwin many, many moons
> ago. My arms got a good workout keeping the thing on the road all the
> way to Darwin.

I'll bet :)

[Noddy]

On 27/03/16 10:44 AM, Diesel Damo wrote:

> An EK? Shit mate you should have got one of those "overdrive"
> diffs I've heard so much about. That would have fixed
> everything plus given you an extra 100hp and an extra 5 gal
> in the fuel tank.

Lol :)

[D Walford]

Would been a quick trip if it could do 90mph is 2nd:-)
Imagine how fast it would go in 3rd, a very fast trip indeed:-)

--
Daryl

[Jeßus]

LOL, if only I had known about these entirely plausible 'facts' back
then...

[Jeßus]

Yeah... straight off the road on the first tight bend, what with the
amount of play in the steering it had :)

[Jeßus]

On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 10:11:49 +1100, Noddy <m...@wardengineering.com>
wrote:

I have a question about fuel pumps on the 170ci engine.
(Yep, the fucking thing died on the way home)

Just wondering what fuel pumps will fit the 170 engine?
Is there any chance one off a 250 will fit? I'll have to wait until
Tuesday to ring around and see if I can find either a kit or
replacement pump and filter. The car actually went quite well up until
the pump shit itself. The carby was running okay but seeping fuel from
the gaskets too.

[Jeßus]

On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 10:11:49 +1100, Noddy <m...@wardengineering.com>
wrote:

True, I'd probably be better off making my own.

[Noddy]

On 27/03/16 5:06 PM, Je�us wrote:

> I have a question about fuel pumps on the 170ci engine.
> (Yep, the fucking thing died on the way home)
>
> Just wondering what fuel pumps will fit the 170 engine?
> Is there any chance one off a 250 will fit? I'll have to wait until
> Tuesday to ring around and see if I can find either a kit or
> replacement pump and filter. The car actually went quite well up until
> the pump shit itself. The carby was running okay but seeping fuel from
> the gaskets too.

Ford used about 27 different fuel pumps on their 6 cylinder engines over
the years, ranging from things with vacuum pumps on the XK & XK Falcons
to operate the wipers, to "high flow" units in the 205-2V engines. As to
whether one from a different model will work is a bit hit and miss. They
all had the same basic mounting flange, but some used different length
lever arms than others and some had different pipe fittings.

I guess "try it and see" is about all you can really do :)

[Noddy]

On 27/03/16 5:23 PM, Noddy wrote:

> Ford used about 27 different fuel pumps on their 6 cylinder engines over
> the years, ranging from things with vacuum pumps on the XK & XK Falcons

That should read "XK and XL Falcons".

[Diesel Damo]

On Sunday, March 27, 2016 at 5:07:09 PM UTC+11, Jeßus wrote:
> I have a question about fuel pumps on the 170ci engine.
> (Yep, the fucking thing died on the way home)

Goddamnit. Sorry to hear that. It's such a buzzkill to not
make it home on your maiden voyage. I've certainly had my
fair share of that with my new acquisitions, despite them
being 90% Toyotas (second hand obviously).

[D Walford]

If you can't find a replacement right away you could replace it with a
basic electric pump.
Supercheap etc have them for about $85.00, might be easier and cheaper
than finding a suitable replacement mechanical pump.

--
Daryl

[Jeßus]

On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 17:23:45 +1100, Noddy <m...@wardengineering.com>
wrote:

Thanks, I should have brought the pump back with me by the looks of
it. I only had a small shifter to use at the time. It might be better
to hook up an electric pump temporarily.

[Jeßus]

Yeah, it's a bit frustrating. It clearly hasn't been driven a great
deal and my trip was the last straw for the old pump.

Luckily it died where it did, another 10K's up the road would have
presented a serious problem (steep/windy/narrow/busy).

I've only ever had problems like this once before when buying a car...
coincidentally it was a ZK Fairlane which turned out to have a leaking
fuel pump... it still worked, but you can imagine the amount of fuel
it went through on the 200KM trip back home.

[Jeßus]

On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 21:46:04 +1100, D Walford
<dwal...@internode.on.net> wrote:

Thanks, yes I was thinking the same thing. An electric pump might be
the safer option, especially as it's a major trip to any parts store.

[Clocky]

On 27/03/2016 2:06 PM, Je�us wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 10:11:49 +1100, Noddy <m...@wardengineering.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 27/03/16 6:49 AM, Je?us wrote:
>>
>>>> Pretty much exactly the same. Same front end, but the XM has a softer
>>>> spring so they're a bit easier to manoeuvre.
>>>
>>> Well... that's something I guess :) I may even wait until I have a
>>> front end from a later model before bothering with springs. I'd better
>>> look into getting some spring compressors soon, the ones John recently
>>> posted about look to be the goods.
>>
>> Yeah, they're okay, although a replica of the factory compressor (or
>> near enough to it) isn't hard to make.
>
> I have a question about fuel pumps on the 170ci engine.
> (Yep, the fucking thing died on the way home)
>

That's just a typical Ford thing ;-)

Seriously though, it sucks when that happens.
Not that unusual on cars that have been sitting around for a while. As
long as the pump hasn't been replaced at some point with a sealed
variety you should be able to kit it.

You mention electric pump elsewhere (mount it close to the tank btw if
it's one of those Facet pumps), perhaps you can gut and modify the
original pump and have the fuel flow through the glass bulb so it looks
like the original pump is in use.

[D Walford]

On 28/03/2016 9:39 AM, Clocky wrote:
> On 27/03/2016 2:06 PM, Je�us wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 10:11:49 +1100, Noddy <m...@wardengineering.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 27/03/16 6:49 AM, Je?us wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Pretty much exactly the same. Same front end, but the XM has a softer
>>>>> spring so they're a bit easier to manoeuvre.
>>>>
>>>> Well... that's something I guess :) I may even wait until I have a
>>>> front end from a later model before bothering with springs. I'd better
>>>> look into getting some spring compressors soon, the ones John recently
>>>> posted about look to be the goods.
>>>
>>> Yeah, they're okay, although a replica of the factory compressor (or
>>> near enough to it) isn't hard to make.
>>
>> I have a question about fuel pumps on the 170ci engine.
>> (Yep, the fucking thing died on the way home)
>>
>
> That's just a typical Ford thing ;-)
>
> Seriously though, it sucks when that happens.
> Not that unusual on cars that have been sitting around for a while. As
> long as the pump hasn't been replaced at some point with a sealed
> variety you should be able to kit it.
>

Most likely failed due to its age, also maybe not liking unleaded fuel.

> You mention electric pump elsewhere (mount it close to the tank btw if
> it's one of those Facet pumps), perhaps you can gut and modify the
> original pump and have the fuel flow through the glass bulb so it looks
> like the original pump is in use.
>
>

Good idea, I wouldn't bother with replacing the mechanical pump but I
like the idea of it looking original.


--
Daryl

[Jeßus]

On Mon, 28 Mar 2016 06:39:10 +0800, Clocky <notg...@happen.com>
wrote:

>On 27/03/2016 2:06 PM, Je?us wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Mar 2016 10:11:49 +1100, Noddy <m...@wardengineering.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 27/03/16 6:49 AM, Je?us wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Pretty much exactly the same. Same front end, but the XM has a softer
>>>>> spring so they're a bit easier to manoeuvre.
>>>>
>>>> Well... that's something I guess :) I may even wait until I have a
>>>> front end from a later model before bothering with springs. I'd better
>>>> look into getting some spring compressors soon, the ones John recently
>>>> posted about look to be the goods.
>>>
>>> Yeah, they're okay, although a replica of the factory compressor (or
>>> near enough to it) isn't hard to make.
>>
>> I have a question about fuel pumps on the 170ci engine.
>> (Yep, the fucking thing died on the way home)
>>
>
>That's just a typical Ford thing ;-)

Shurrup :)

>Seriously though, it sucks when that happens.
>Not that unusual on cars that have been sitting around for a while. As
>long as the pump hasn't been replaced at some point with a sealed
>variety you should be able to kit it.
>
>You mention electric pump elsewhere (mount it close to the tank btw if
>it's one of those Facet pumps), perhaps you can gut and modify the
>original pump and have the fuel flow through the glass bulb so it looks
>like the original pump is in use.

That's a good idea actually. My pump doesn't have the glass bowl
though, mine looks like this:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/152005344194?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true

I found some NOS rebuild kits on eBay too, but given their age, they
may well be unreliable, IMO. NOS complete pump on there as well... for
$250, mind you.

[Clocky]

Yeah same.

[Noddy]

On 28/03/16 11:02 AM, Je�us wrote:

> That's a good idea actually. My pump doesn't have the glass bowl
> though, mine looks like this:
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/152005344194?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true

I'm pretty sure the 250 pump will work after looking at that.

> I found some NOS rebuild kits on eBay too, but given their age, they
> may well be unreliable, IMO. NOS complete pump on there as well... for
> $250, mind you.

Yeah, I would avoid anything New Old Stock unless you're into collecting
boxes with FoMoCo labels on them. If it were me I'd go with Daryl's
option of fitting an electric pump, as not only are they generally more
reliable than mechanical pumps but they have a couple of advantages in
that they're self priming if you run out of fuel and they're easy made
into an anti-theft device if wired around the ignition coil so the
engine won't run if someone pops the bonnet and hotwires the car.

[John McKenzie]

On 28/03/2016 11:02 AM, Je�us wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Mar 2016 06:39:10 +0800, Clocky <notg...@happen.com>
> wrote:
>> You mention electric pump elsewhere (mount it close to the tank btw if
>> it's one of those Facet pumps), perhaps you can gut and modify the
>> original pump and have the fuel flow through the glass bulb so it looks
>> like the original pump is in use.
>
> That's a good idea actually.

I think i have posted about this before but a mate and I got stranded
when a mini fuel pump failed. so into the nearby 7/11 we wandered and
bought a tomato sauce bottle, re-routed the windscreen washer tube to
the carby and from there into the cabin. I drove whilst my mate
repeatedly opened the sauce bottle dipped it into a bucket full of
petrol (we had the bucket iirc or may have bought it I forget but we
definitely had a jerry can of fuel), filled it, scewed it back together
and hand pumped fuel into the fuel bowl. took about 20 refills or so
during the approx 1hr drive home. ACtually now that I think about it it
might have been a plastic storage crate not a bucket that we used!

Fucking retarded in hindsight, but it's not like we were smoking or
letting off fireworks at the time (to use Felix logic). Ah the folly of
youth :)

--
John McKenzie

[Clocky]

Given it's the pressed kind I would suggest that it is a replacement.

> I found some NOS rebuild kits on eBay too, but given their age, they
> may well be unreliable, IMO.

The ones I've seen look OK but how they have been stored etc probably
has a lot to do with it.

NOS complete pump on there as well... for
> $250, mind you.
>

Ouch. With probably older rubber components then the NOS rebuild kit ;-)

I would probably just fit an electric pump and hook it up without
modifying the original piping and wait for one to pop up that might be
suitable to be modified to look like it's working.

Since your pump is cactus I would be tempted to remove it and make up a
cover plate and gasket for the block or even to experiment with to see
if you can make it pass fuel straight through.

That's what I did on my red motor (made a cover plate) because after
fitting the electric fuel pump the original failed fuel pump started
leaking oil as well.

Plus you will have the your pump at hand for matching up etc.

[Clocky]

On 28/03/2016 2:08 PM, Blue Peeler wrote:

> Clocky wrote:
>
>> Seriously though, it sucks when that happens.
>> Not that unusual on cars that have been sitting around for a while.
>> As long as the pump hasn't been replaced at some point with a sealed
>> variety you should be able to kit it.
>>
>> You mention electric pump elsewhere (mount it close to the tank btw
>> if it's one of those Facet pumps), perhaps you can gut and modify the
>> original pump and have the fuel flow through the glass bulb so it
>> looks like the original pump is in use.
>

> To the best of my recollection Holden, Falcon and Valiants of the era
> used the same fuel pumpm, the only variation being the length and
> "bend" of the actuating arm
>
>

Yeah, that's about right, also the location of the outlets sometimes
though generally that can easily be worked around.

The problem with the replacement sealed units is that you can't just
swap arms over.

> A new pump was $7.50 that last time i bought one and a new diaphaghram,
> valve set and gastket was around $2.50 for the Quinton Hazell variety.
> I suspect the price may have increased a tad since then.
>
>
> But they were a piece of piss to fix, and i bet the rebuild kit is
> still available because that pump was fitted to just about anything
> running on petrol.
>
>
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Ignore the above.
>
> I've since looked and the price for a rebuild kit for an AC/Carter/Goss
> pump (they were all the same) ranges from $49 to $119. The price for
> the whole pump seems to start at about $150 and the highest I bothered
> to look at was $299.
>
>
> Bugger!
>


Yeah, I well remember the times when kits and pumps were dirt cheap but
then they used to sell them by the bucket because the things using them
were everywhere.

Not so much these days.

[Jeßus]

On Mon, 28 Mar 2016 11:30:59 +1100, Noddy <m...@wardengineering.com>
wrote:

>On 28/03/16 11:02 AM, Je?us wrote:
>
>> That's a good idea actually. My pump doesn't have the glass bowl
>> though, mine looks like this:
>> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/152005344194?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true
>
>I'm pretty sure the 250 pump will work after looking at that.

I should be able to find one of those locally.

>> I found some NOS rebuild kits on eBay too, but given their age, they
>> may well be unreliable, IMO. NOS complete pump on there as well... for
>> $250, mind you.
>
>Yeah, I would avoid anything New Old Stock unless you're into collecting
>boxes with FoMoCo labels on them. If it were me I'd go with Daryl's
>option of fitting an electric pump, as not only are they generally more
>reliable than mechanical pumps but they have a couple of advantages in
>that they're self priming if you run out of fuel and they're easy made
>into an anti-theft device if wired around the ignition coil so the
>engine won't run if someone pops the bonnet and hotwires the car.

A good idea, I reckon I'll do that in the long term.

[Jeßus]

On Mon, 28 Mar 2016 19:13:29 +1100, John McKenzie <j...@j.com> wrote:

Heh. I might have done something like that when I was younger, not now
though :)

[Jeßus]

On Mon, 28 Mar 2016 16:33:33 +0800, Clocky <notg...@happen.com>
wrote:

>On 28/03/2016 8:02 AM, Je?us wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 Mar 2016 06:39:10 +0800, Clocky <notg...@happen.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On 27/03/2016 2:06 PM, Je?us wrote:
>>> You mention electric pump elsewhere (mount it close to the tank btw if
>>> it's one of those Facet pumps), perhaps you can gut and modify the
>>> original pump and have the fuel flow through the glass bulb so it looks
>>> like the original pump is in use.
>>
>> That's a good idea actually. My pump doesn't have the glass bowl
>> though, mine looks like this:
>> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/152005344194?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true
>>
>
>Given it's the pressed kind I would suggest that it is a replacement.
>
>> I found some NOS rebuild kits on eBay too, but given their age, they
>> may well be unreliable, IMO.
>
>
>The ones I've seen look OK but how they have been stored etc probably
>has a lot to do with it.

Yeah, too dicey to chance.

>NOS complete pump on there as well... for
>> $250, mind you.
>>
>
>Ouch. With probably older rubber components then the NOS rebuild kit ;-)
>
>I would probably just fit an electric pump and hook it up without
>modifying the original piping and wait for one to pop up that might be
>suitable to be modified to look like it's working.
>
>Since your pump is cactus I would be tempted to remove it and make up a
>cover plate and gasket for the block or even to experiment with to see
>if you can make it pass fuel straight through.
>
>That's what I did on my red motor (made a cover plate) because after
>fitting the electric fuel pump the original failed fuel pump started
>leaking oil as well.
>
>Plus you will have the your pump at hand for matching up etc.

Yep, I reckon I'll do something along those lines, either that or gut
an original pump and keep it on the engine for appearances. Thanks.

[Jeßus]

On 28 Mar 2016 06:08:57 GMT, "Blue Peeler" <wo...@barque.org> wrote:

>Clocky wrote:
>
>> Seriously though, it sucks when that happens.
>> Not that unusual on cars that have been sitting around for a while.
>> As long as the pump hasn't been replaced at some point with a sealed
>> variety you should be able to kit it.
>>
>> You mention electric pump elsewhere (mount it close to the tank btw
>> if it's one of those Facet pumps), perhaps you can gut and modify the
>> original pump and have the fuel flow through the glass bulb so it
>> looks like the original pump is in use.
>

>To the best of my recollection Holden, Falcon and Valiants of the era
>used the same fuel pumpm, the only variation being the length and
>"bend" of the actuating arm
>
>

>A new pump was $7.50 that last time i bought one and a new diaphaghram,
>valve set and gastket was around $2.50 for the Quinton Hazell variety.
>I suspect the price may have increased a tad since then.
>
>
>But they were a piece of piss to fix, and i bet the rebuild kit is
>still available because that pump was fitted to just about anything
>running on petrol.
>
>
>
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Ignore the above.
>
>I've since looked and the price for a rebuild kit for an AC/Carter/Goss
>pump (they were all the same) ranges from $49 to $119. The price for
>the whole pump seems to start at about $150 and the highest I bothered
>to look at was $299.
>
>
>Bugger!

Electric pump time methinks...

[Noddy]

On 28/03/16 7:13 PM, John McKenzie wrote:

>> That's a good idea actually.
>
> I think i have posted about this before but a mate and I got stranded
> when a mini fuel pump failed. so into the nearby 7/11 we wandered and
> bought a tomato sauce bottle, re-routed the windscreen washer tube to
> the carby and from there into the cabin. I drove whilst my mate
> repeatedly opened the sauce bottle dipped it into a bucket full of
> petrol (we had the bucket iirc or may have bought it I forget but we
> definitely had a jerry can of fuel), filled it, scewed it back together
> and hand pumped fuel into the fuel bowl. took about 20 refills or so
> during the approx 1hr drive home. ACtually now that I think about it it
> might have been a plastic storage crate not a bucket that we used!
>
> Fucking retarded in hindsight, but it's not like we were smoking or
> letting off fireworks at the time (to use Felix logic). Ah the folly of
> youth :)

Heh :)

If it were Felix he'd see fit to do that on a daily basis :)

[D Walford]

I put a switch into the fuel pump circuit on the AE86 my son used to
own, I used one of the unused A/C switches already on the dash so there
was no new switches making it impossible for someone who didn't know
about it to start the car.

--
Daryl

[Diesel Damo]

On Tuesday, March 29, 2016 at 8:23:17 AM UTC+11, Noddy wrote:
> If it were Felix he'd see fit to do that on a daily basis :)

I imagine it would go something like this:

"The petrol container mightn't have had a lid, but it was
contained in at least 2 other dimensions, and 2 dimensions
are better than none at all! Anyone who says otherwise is
stupid."

[Noddy]

On 29/03/16 11:16 AM, Diesel Damo wrote:

>> If it were Felix he'd see fit to do that on a daily basis :)
>
> I imagine it would go something like this:
>
> "The petrol container mightn't have had a lid, but it was
> contained in at least 2 other dimensions, and 2 dimensions
> are better than none at all! Anyone who says otherwise is
> stupid."

Jeez, you're more generous than I would give him credit for :)

[Jeßus]

On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 09:43:02 +1100, D Walford
<dwal...@internode.on.net> wrote:

That's a good idea that I've done myself before, the XM doesnt have
much in the way or switches of course, I'll just hide the switch
elsewhere.