Holden responds to emission report criticism
Dr. Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF
HOLDEN has insisted that the environmental performance of its cars is improving
significantly, despite a report showing it had the worst record of all the
big-selling car brands in lowering greenhouse gas emissions.
The National Transport Commission report released this week revealed for the
first time the average carbon dioxide emissions of new cars, broken down by
manufacturer.
It showed that while average emissions of all new cars sold in Australia fell by
8.4 per cent between 2005 and 2009, the performance of the individual car
companies varied significantly, ranging from a 17 per cent decline by Kia to no
improvement at all by Suzuki.
The figures showed Holden was one of the worst performers on several indicators.
The average new Holden sold in the first nine months of this year emitted 245
grams of carbon dioxide for every kilometre travelled - the highest of
Australia's 15 biggest-selling car brands - reflecting the dominance of larger
six-cylinder vehicles in its model line-up.
In the four years since 2005, the report said, average emissions of new Holdens
had declined by 3 per cent. That was the second-smallest improvement of the top
15 brands.
Over the same period, sales-weighted average emissions from Fords were down 13
per cent, Nissan and Mitsubishi recorded a 10 per cent improvement, and
emissions from new Toyotas and Mazdas were down 7 per cent.
Holden's director of energy and environment, Richard Marshall, said the
commission's figures covered the first eight months of 2009 and missed out on
the latest model Commodore, which went on sale in September.
Mr Marshall said direct fuel injection technology in the new Commodore reduced
its emissions by 12 per cent. If sales of the new model had been included,
Holden would have recorded one of the best performances of the major brands.
''We are not crying foul, but the cut-off used for 2009 sales in that report
couldn't have been constructed to get a worse outcome for us,'' Mr Marshall said.
He said Holden had been working for years on lowering emissions, and many of
these developments were now coming to fruition. In addition to direct fuel
injection, V8 Holdens now incorporated an active fuel management system which
reduced fuel consumption. A ''flex fuel'' Commodore would be launched next year;
it would run on fuel blends with up to 85 per cent ethanol content.
''We haven't been sitting there as dinosaurs [when it comes to environmental
performance],'' Mr Marshall said.
''We have a whole lot of plans in place and the really big one … is the SIDI
direct injection, which is now included in our models across the board.''
--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ipvdBnU8F8
- KRudd at his finest.
"The Labour Party is corrupt beyond redemption!"
- Labour hasbeen Mark Latham in a moment of honest clarity.
"This is the recession we had to have!"
- Paul Keating explaining why he gave Australia another Labour recession.
"Silly old bugger!"
- Well known ACTU pisspot and sometime Labour prime minister Bob Hawke
responding to a pensioner who dared ask for more.
"By 1990, no child will live in poverty"
- Bob Hawke again, desperate to win another election.
"A billion trees ..."
- Borke, pissed as a newt again.
"Well may we say 'God save the Queen' because nothing will save the governor
general!"
- Egotistical shithead and pompous fuckwit E.G. Whitlam whining about his
appointee for Governor General John Kerr.
"SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU DUMB CUNT!"
- FlangesBum on learning the truth about Labour's economic capabilities.
"I don't care what you fuckers think!"
- KRudd the KRude at his finest again.
"We'll just change it all when we get in."
- Garrett the carrott
The Raven
message news:031ccce3$0$1375$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
> http://www.smh.com.au/environment/holden-responds-to-emission-report-criticism-20091124-jhet.html
>
> HOLDEN has insisted that the environmental performance of its cars is
> improving significantly, despite a report showing it had the worst record
> of all the big-selling car brands in lowering greenhouse gas emissions.
>
Given the majority of their vehicles are powered by 3.0L V6's or larger why
are we not surprised? By comparison, most other manufacturers have high
volume low capacity engines with only one or two low volume models with
larger capacity.
Holden are also right to point out the exclusion of their newer SIDI and AFM
models skewed the report.
Fords figures are down, probably because they aren't selling as well.
Dan----
"The Raven" <swils...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:4b0ce19f$0$5424$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> "Dr. Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF " <""noujwas\"@yahoo.com ."> wrote in
> message news:031ccce3$0$1375$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>> http://www.smh.com.au/environment/holden-responds-to-emission-report-criticism-20091124-jhet.html
>>
> Holden are also right to point out the exclusion of their newer SIDI and
> AFM models skewed the report.
>
> Fords figures are down, probably because they aren't selling as well.
I've seen more new Ford Mondeos on the roads than new Falcons I still think
the FG 6GE is the nicest looking Falcon in the range especially in turbo
form but since we have the Territory which is falling apart I doub't we look
at a Falcon. Even when I had the EL V8 wagon that thing was pretty much
problem free.
Shame how some things go down hill.
---
Regards
Dan
John_H
>http://www.smh.com.au/environment/holden-responds-to-emission-report-criticism-20091124-jhet.html
>
>The average new Holden sold in the first nine months of this year emitted 245
>grams of carbon dioxide for every kilometre travelled - the highest of
>Australia's 15 biggest-selling car brands - reflecting the dominance of larger
>six-cylinder vehicles in its model line-up.
Why should GMH need to worry?... It's we common folk who'll end up
paying for the carbon credits under the Rudd/Turnbull ETS! :(
--
John H
Dan----
"John_H" <john...@inbox.com> wrote in message
news:5j9rg59f3uvd0i035...@4ax.com...
Yup charcoal underwear does come with a cost. ;-).
---
Regards
Dan.
Dr. Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF
You mean the KRudd ETS. (You'd need to read my recent comments in another thread
in aus.politics to understand what the real story is.)
Albm&ctd
." says...
> Mitsubishi recorded a 10 per cent improvement
>
models. Oil smoke is serious pollution that affects health unlike CO2.
CO2 is the result of *clean* burning and what you breathe out as an animal to
make a tree happy.
CO2, carbon dioxide, is a colourless odourless gas and is not toxic! You can't
photograph CO2, present it on the news because it's fuck*ng invisible, although
they try to do that.
CO, carbon monoxide, the result of incomplete burning is a deadly gas!
I'm surprised when questioned about the difference or indeed what GHG's they
are protesting about a lot of green activists don't have a clue and think CO2 is
a deadly gas! That's what brainwashing does, although most of them are severely
retarded by other mainstream media, midday movies, soaps etc to start with :)
Sure, if you breathed in only CO2 you would die as surely as if you breathed in
only nitrogen and nitrogen ain't toxic. In fact nitrogen makes up a large part
of what we are breathing right now.
You realise only 8% of Australias GHG's come from passenger cars?
You do realise despite the size of Australia our contribution to global GHG
emissions are about the same as Mexico? Why should we pay a shitload more for
our energy (passed onto consumers) when it contributes so little, IIRC 4% of
global emissions? If Australia sank and we all died and if what they say is
correct about the demise of the planet from a harmless gas to humans then our
contribution would be SFA and the planet would still be fuck*d without our 4%.
You realise the catalytic converter is supposed to only produce CO2 (there's
that GHG again) and water.. mind you also H2S which was far worse when we had
high sulphur fuels (the sewer smell) and the catalytic converter is destroyed by
oil burning engines. In fact I don't know why they bother putting them on
Mitsubishi cars.
You do realise a cleaner car that produces less GHG's will not 'save the planet'
and only serves to make the green environmentally conscious holier than thou
crawl over a power station type of activist protester feel warm (should that be
cool?) and fuzzy?
As always you are free to disagree with any of the above and prove me wrong.
Al
--
I don't take sides.
It's more fun to insult everyone.
http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html
The Raven
news:009728ea$0$26889$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>
> "The Raven" <swils...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:4b0ce19f$0$5424$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>> "Dr. Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF " <""noujwas\"@yahoo.com ."> wrote in
>> message news:031ccce3$0$1375$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>>> http://www.smh.com.au/environment/holden-responds-to-emission-report-criticism-20091124-jhet.html
>>>
>
>> Holden are also right to point out the exclusion of their newer SIDI and
>> AFM models skewed the report.
>>
>> Fords figures are down, probably because they aren't selling as well.
>
> I've seen more new Ford Mondeos on the roads than new Falcons
And those smaller engined Mondeos will help with the statistics.
> I still think the FG 6GE is the nicest looking Falcon in the range
> especially in turbo form
I must say I am impressed with both the looks and performance. It's also
impressive that they'll outrun most stock WRXs over a 1/4 mile.
> but since we have the Territory which is falling apart I doub't we look at
> a Falcon.
Generally, I don't like the Falcon styling. They try to make it all
luxo-euro but other than the top spec models they still come off as a taxi.
Noddy
> I must say I am impressed with both the looks and performance. It's also
> impressive that they'll outrun most stock WRXs over a 1/4 mile.
Yeah, but the WRX will shit all over it when you come to the first corner,
and it'll keep running long after the Falcon is dead and buried. New Fords
are *incredibly* fragile, and are built with all the quality control of a
ten buck Chinese watch.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Jason James
"Noddy" <m...@home.com> wrote in message
news:4b0e7370$0$59258$c30e...@exi-reader.telstra.net...
Have you any examples of that Nod? It usually comes down to body and/or
running gear.
Jason
atec7 7
It usually comes down to body and/or
> running gear.
Or a fabrication
>
> Jason
>
>
The Raven
> news:4b0e6453$0$11509$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
>> I must say I am impressed with both the looks and performance. It's also
>> impressive that they'll outrun most stock WRXs over a 1/4 mile.
>
> Yeah, but the WRX will shit all over it when you come to the first corner,
True, assuming the driver has any skill....and let's face it....few WRX
drivers are as good as they think. ;-)
> and it'll keep running long after the Falcon is dead and buried.
Assuming you can afford the parts.
> New Fords are *incredibly* fragile, and are built with all the quality
> control of a ten buck Chinese watch.
Is that due to pushing the engine design to it's limits or just quality
control in general?
Snipped silly crossposts...
Dan----
>
>
>> New Fords are *incredibly* fragile, and are built with all the quality
>> control of a ten buck Chinese watch.
>
> Is that due to pushing the engine design to it's limits or just quality
> control in general?
Actually I think the engines are very good and the ZF transmission is
excellent but its just the general quality control.
Our territory has suffered a few bothering issues like rust, suspension
knocks and clunks, a few electrical problems and some rather flimsy interior
trims.
But apart from the quirks they are a comfortable and very practicle car to
drive a well designed car just sadly built without much care.
We are getting a VW Touareg next year to replace it also the mrs really
likes the look of the Touareg plus after looking after a relo's one when
they went overseas I can see why.
---
Regards
Dan.
Dan----
> "Dan----" <N...@email.com> wrote in message
>
>> I still think the FG 6GE is the nicest looking Falcon in the range
>> especially in turbo form
>
> I must say I am impressed with both the looks and performance. It's also
> impressive that they'll outrun most stock WRXs over a 1/4 mile.
Yup but around a corner be bye bye Falcon. :-)
>
>> but since we have the Territory which is falling apart I doub't we look
>> at a Falcon.
>
> Generally, I don't like the Falcon styling. They try to make it all
> luxo-euro but other than the top spec models they still come off as a
> taxi.
Oh well we do need taxi's :-).
---
Regards
Dan
Noddy
"Jason James" <a...@ass.com> wrote in message
news:4b0ecf12$0$28422$c30e...@pit-reader.telstra.net...
> Have you any examples of that Nod?
Yeah, there's one parked in my driveway :)
Since the introduction of the BA Falcon Ford has taken a deliberate "cheap
and nasty" policy towards building their cars, and it's only got worse as
time has gone on with their ever increasing attempts to cut the last few
cents out of each item and each time they do they seem to create more
problems for themselves. Things like tailshaft universal joints being
replaced by "flexible" rubber couplings that cause phenomenal driveline
vibration issues, piss poor suspension systems that are failing at alarming
rates all for the sake of having a balljoint socket cast integrally with an
arm rather than fitting the arm with a dedicated replaceable joint, brake
hose failures for no reason other than the hose being shortened to the
absolute minimum they think they can get away with, clutch failures and so
on. These are design issues where the principal focus is on cost
effectiveness at the expense of everything else.
Of course, then there's just piss poor quality control.
Window switches that fall out of their sockets, window cable guides made out
of paper Mache that snap as soon as there's any load on the cable, door
seals that aren't moulded with any shape in them so they continually fall
off the body seam each time you open the door, interior handles and grabs
made out of the cheapest quality plastic imaginable that break *very*
easily, interior plastics in general that's of appalling quality and has
virtually zero fit standards when being assembled, etc, etc.
To put it very simply, Ford Australia is building the *poorest* quality car
on the market today in my opinion, and I wouldn't be the slightest bit
surprised if we see them end local production in the near future. If and
when they do, they'll have no one but themselves to blame.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
"atec7 7" <"atec 77"@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hemng0$ka3$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> I doubt he will
Doubt all you like, but it's not like you'd have a clue.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
> True, assuming the driver has any skill....and let's face it....few WRX
> drivers are as good as they think. ;-)
Probably not, but then even the base model 'Rex handles like a racing car
compared to a Taxi with a hair dryer on it.
> Assuming you can afford the parts.
Subaru generally make a pretty reliable and solid car. The WRX has a certain
reputation that is somewhat at odds with that, but then just about every
'Rex ever made gets the absolute shit caned out of it by idiots who think
they're indestructable.
Ford, on the other hand, make a pretty average quality car that needs no
help from anyone to be problematic :)
> Is that due to pushing the engine design to it's limits or just quality
> control in general?
A combination of both in my opinion.
Their focus seems to be on cost above all else these days, and as flagging
sales see their share of the market dwindle and their revenue reduced, cost
becomes an increasingly important factor. Corners are cut on design,
materials, assembly techniques, and anything else they can do to make the
cars cheaper to make which results in a cheap car of dubious quality hitting
the showrooms. Over time as the quality of the car diminishes, people become
less interested in owning them causing sales to slump further and the
company to get even cheaper with the cars still.
The gift that keeps on giving if you will.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
atec7 7
> "The Raven" <swils...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:4b0e6453$0$11509$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>> "Dan----" <N...@email.com> wrote in message
>
>>> I still think the FG 6GE is the nicest looking Falcon in the range
>>> especially in turbo form
>> I must say I am impressed with both the looks and performance. It's also
>> impressive that they'll outrun most stock WRXs over a 1/4 mile.
>
> Yup but around a corner be bye bye Falcon. :-)
In factory yes but only a little , and after a dumping and owner
improvements the average rex handles like a beached wale
>
>>> but since we have the Territory which is falling apart I doub't we look
>>> at a Falcon.
>> Generally, I don't like the Falcon styling. They try to make it all
>> luxo-euro but other than the top spec models they still come off as a
>> taxi.
>
> Oh well we do need taxi's :-).
Thats what toyotas are for
>
> ---
> Regards
> Dan
>
>
atec7 7
> "The Raven" <swils...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:4b0eecf7$0$5421$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
>>> New Fords are *incredibly* fragile, and are built with all the quality
>>> control of a ten buck Chinese watch.
>> Is that due to pushing the engine design to it's limits or just quality
>> control in general?
>
> Actually I think the engines are very good and the ZF transmission is
> excellent but its just the general quality control.
>
> Our territory has suffered a few bothering issues like rust, suspension
> knocks and clunks, a few electrical problems and some rather flimsy interior
> trims.
>
> But apart from the quirks they are a comfortable and very practicle car to
> drive a well designed car just sadly built without much care.
and parts and home maintenance is cheap and easy
>
> We are getting a VW Touareg next year to replace it also the mrs really
> likes the look of the Touareg plus after looking after a relo's one when
> they went overseas I can see why.
in a mates toerag and it was very comfortable but no so much that the
price compared to my foulcan makes it worth while
>
> ---
> Regards
> Dan.
>
>
who where
<alb_mand...@connexus.net.au> wrote:
(snip)
>You realise only 8% of Australias GHG's come from passenger cars?
>You do realise despite the size of Australia our contribution to global GHG
>emissions are about the same as Mexico? Why should we pay a shitload more for
>our energy (passed onto consumers) when it contributes so little, IIRC 4% of
>global emissions?
Exactly. And can someone (with a brain still functioning) please
explain how aussie consumers paying a great carbon pollution tax to
the feds is going to rid the world of any GHG's?
Lindsay
> To put it very simply, Ford Australia is building the *poorest* quality
car
> on the market today in my opinion, and I wouldn't be the slightest bit
> surprised if we see them end local production in the near future. If and
> when they do, they'll have no one but themselves to blame.
I've had fords all my life and my current 6cyl FG ute is gunna be the last.
I cant believe that they allow cars into the caryards with the problems they
have.
Whilst they have found the performance that was lacking in the 6cyl BF, they
have really lowered the bar in other areas...
My front bumper bar is a completely different color to the rest of the car.
Ford's answer? "oh, they're all like that"...
I paid $400 for premium paint on half a car (cab chassis ute) and I got
two-tone paint! :)
I've had several other service "issues" with Jefferson Ford service centres
too...
I'll look at a Toyota Hilux or similar next time....
The Raven
>
> "The Raven" <swils...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:4b0eecf7$0$5421$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
>> True, assuming the driver has any skill....and let's face it....few WRX
>> drivers are as good as they think. ;-)
>
> Probably not, but then even the base model 'Rex handles like a racing car
> compared to a Taxi with a hair dryer on it.
>
;-)
>> Assuming you can afford the parts.
>
> Subaru generally make a pretty reliable and solid car. The WRX has a
> certain reputation that is somewhat at odds with that, but then just about
> every 'Rex ever made gets the absolute shit caned out of it by idiots who
> think they're indestructable.
Subaru are generally good cars but they've had their history of engine
problems. Heads and valvetrain being the most common....but I'll assume a
decent percentage of that is due to poor maintenance.
I know the WRXs generally get a hard time but the numerous reports of 2nd
gear failures and othe unidentified (by the owner) 'blow ups' would make me
cautious about buying a 2nd WRX that's ever seen hard use.
>
> Ford, on the other hand, make a pretty average quality car that needs no
> help from anyone to be problematic :)
>
>> Is that due to pushing the engine design to it's limits or just quality
>> control in general?
>
> A combination of both in my opinion.
>
I have been impressed with what they've got out of the engine but it does
make me wonder if it's been at the expense of reliability. Of course, only
time will tell.
> Their focus seems to be on cost above all else these days, and as flagging
> sales see their share of the market dwindle and their revenue reduced,
> cost becomes an increasingly important factor. Corners are cut on design,
> materials, assembly techniques, and anything else they can do to make the
> cars cheaper to make which results in a cheap car of dubious quality
> hitting the showrooms. Over time as the quality of the car diminishes,
> people become less interested in owning them causing sales to slump
> further and the company to get even cheaper with the cars still.
I'm sure Holden has faced similar problems, although their approach seems be
different and more successful. I've noted several cases of cost cutting in
the VE but none of those appear to be anything that would adversly effect
reliability. For example, I noted some plastic interior panels come from
Korea (it carries Korean language stickers). Then there is the wheel well or
tray liner for the ute. Under that plastic panel is nothing more than some
stamped steel braces and the road....
Noddy
> I know the WRXs generally get a hard time but the numerous reports of 2nd
> gear failures and othe unidentified (by the owner) 'blow ups' would make
> me cautious about buying a 2nd WRX that's ever seen hard use.
As good a car as they are, and they are a very good car indeed, I'd only
ever buy one on the assumption that I'd be rebuilding the mechanicals at
some future point.
> I have been impressed with what they've got out of the engine but it does
> make me wonder if it's been at the expense of reliability. Of course, only
> time will tell.
They're having reliability issues with their Turbo engines now.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
D Walford
> Dan---- wrote:
>> "The Raven" <swils...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:4b0e6453$0$11509$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>> "Dan----" <N...@email.com> wrote in message
>>
>>>> I still think the FG 6GE is the nicest looking Falcon in the range
>>>> especially in turbo form
>>> I must say I am impressed with both the looks and performance. It's
>>> also impressive that they'll outrun most stock WRXs over a 1/4 mile.
>>
>> Yup but around a corner be bye bye Falcon. :-)
>
> In factory yes but only a little , and after a dumping and owner
> improvements the average rex handles like a beached wale
>>
Agreed, in stock form they handle very well, too many people mod cars
with little knowledge so the cars end up worse off.
Daryl
Dan----
>>
>> Yup but around a corner be bye bye Falcon. :-)
>
> In factory yes but only a little , and after a dumping and owner
> improvements the average rex handles like a beached wale
For sure or they the suspension is too hard and the tyres could bearly grip.
Only takes so little adjustment to throw things out of complete chaos.
---
Regards
Dan.
D Walford
> I have been impressed with what they've got out of the engine but it does
> make me wonder if it's been at the expense of reliability. Of course, only
> time will tell.
My nephew picked up a new XR6 ute last week so I'll be interested to see
how it goes reliability wise.
A bloke at work bought a new SV6 ute so I'll be able to compare any
issue's the 2 have but the SV6 owner is already complaining about how
the fuel economy doesn't come close to Holdens claimed figures, I
suggested he check it properly after its done a few more klms.
Daryl
The Raven
I'm not surprised given how quick they now are. No matter how many upgrades
you do to the old 6, it's gotta push an ever increasing amount of weight
around. To be as quick as it is, that's a lot of boost...
The Raven
news:00992785$0$26916$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
bog stock AMI built Corona around the corners. Still, the old girl was a ton
more fun than a Corona....straight line or otherwise.
Trimming the unnecessary rossposts again....
The Raven
From first hand experience with the SV6, mileage will improve.
Of course, there's a big difference between what Joe Bloggs considers
'normal' driving to that which yields best economy....
Around town (peak hour traffic etc) I'm getting around 11.3-11.5L. Open road
and efficient driving will get you nudging high 7's (non-SIDI engine
w/auto).
What's the XR6 and Ute getting? auto or manual?
D Walford
Don't have any accurate numbers for either yet.
The SV6 has the new SIDI engine which is supposed to be more economical
but AFAIK its done less than 1000klms so not much chance of good economy
numbers yet.
I haven't had a chance to talk to my nephew about the XR6 yet but the
bloke with the SV6 is very happy with the performance.
Daryl
Noddy
> I'm not surprised given how quick they now are. No matter how many
> upgrades you do to the old 6, it's gotta push an ever increasing amount of
> weight around. To be as quick as it is, that's a lot of boost...
The engines themselves are not very strong, and suffer severely when they're
stood on hard. That's not to say they're a bad engine as they're not, and in
their normal "taxi duty" role they perform pretty well apart from being a
tad on the thirsty side. However, once they start pushing out 240kw or so
they start to complain and ache.
There's some people out there running pretty impressive numbers from turbo
Ford 6's, but virtually none of them have their original sump gaskets in
place :)
--
Regards,
Noddy.