Product review: Polyair Springs
Noddy
after-market product I tried out today, and to be a complete whacko it *is*
car related :)
For those who don't know (or those who do and couldn't care less anyway)
I've got a 2005 RA Rodeo crew cab which I use as my mucking around hack.
It's a 3.5 litre petrol auto that I've had for 18 months or so now and apart
from having a thirst for petrol that's roughly the equivalent of a Tiger
Tank at full noise it's proved to be an excellent vehicle that suits me down
to the ground.
That's not the review. The review is about a pair of airbag booster springs
made by a company called Polyair in Sydney.
When I bought the Rodeo I specifically wanted a tray back, but as tray back
crew cab utes are pretty thin on the ground I ended up buying a styleside
with a canopy fitted. A couple of months after I bought the thing I removed
and sold the styleside tub and canopy and fitted and steel framed tray with
a timber floor that I made, and whacked a Lyco tailgate loader on the arse
end. For those who don't know what they are you can see one here:
http://www.duratray.net.au/index.php?link=lyco-loader Best thing ever
invented since E sized tits :)
Anyway, the steel tray and tailgate loader weigh about 100kg more than the
original tub and canopy, and as they're longer with more weight hanging out
past the rear axle the car drops it's bum pretty quickly when you load it,
and especially when you throw a trailer one the back. I've been meaning to
do something about it for a while now and in previous situations I've taken
the springs to the local springworks to have them reset and an extra leaf
thrown in. This generally works pretty well as far as raising the loaded
ride height goes, but in unlaiden trim the vehicle tends to right like
absolute shit and as this Rodeo rides pretty well (it's actually smoother
and quieter than our '06 Territory Ghia) I was looking for something else.
Enter the Polyair airbags.
The airbags are basically a pair of urethane bags with a mild "keeper" coil
spring that are designed to fitted to the vehicle between the chassis rail
and the leaf spring and work as a "booster". They're supplied as a complete
kit to suit a range of vehicles, and the kit contains all the necessary
bracketry and hardware to complete the installation. The airbags are filled
by way of a regular Schrader valve and they're shipped with separate valves
for each bag which allows you to vary air pressure from side to side to
compensate for uneven loads. The bags themselves work at low pressure with
30psi being the maximum, and a minimum of 5psi being necessary when unlaiden
to keep the bags inflated and prevent them from being pinched by the coils.
Fitting the pair to the Rodeo took me a lazy hour and a half and the results
are quite impressive. Roughly 17psi was required to level the car with the
tray loaded and the trailer hooked up, and the ride quality with the bags
inflated is not affected. It rides just as smooth and quiet as it did before
they were fitted which most definitely wouldn't have been the case with
modified leaf springs. The quality of the components in the kit are very
good, the service from the company was excellent (I ordered them Wednesday
morning in Sydney over the phone and they were at my doorstep in Melbourne
at lunch time yesterday) and at 240 bucks for the complete kit they're
excellent value.
Time will tell as to how well they perform, but so far the results are
excellent and if the comments from any of the 4x4 users who have run the
things for a number of years now are anything to go by I'm not expecting any
problems. The ute is currently sitting in the driveway loaded up to buggery
with crap ready for a day's rock clearing and moving on the block tomorrow,
and I've got the ride on and associated shit in the trailer and it's sitting
dead level. With the same stuff loaded up last Friday night the jockey wheel
was about 2 inches from the ground folded up and would hit the ground going
out the driveway.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
PhilD
"Noddy" <m...@home.com> wrote in message
news:4af41413$0$92589$c30e...@exi-reader.telstra.net...
I do hope that you have better luck than I did with them. The first part of
this story was from a report on them that I did to a 4x4 club supporting
Polyair's, but I later amended my views after the 2nd set.
I've had 2 sets of these fitted to my '75 RR. The first was perfect for my
use. The 2nd set, well read on.
The first set was fitted around 25 years ago and lasted for about 10 years
until one fractured around the air inlet point. The 2nd set had only been on
for about 4 years until a couple of years ago. In between the vehicle wasn't
that heavily used and didn't really need them.
Originally I tried a set of Gabriel Hi Jackers, but they needed to be pumped
up to about 130lbs to carry the load and the rear end felt solid and were
woeful on and off road. Even finding some way to pump them up to that
pressure was difficult. The polyair's can be done with a bicycle pump. NOTE:
The bags must not be connected together with a "T" piece or air will
transfer from side to side under cornering loads.
I initially wanted them so that I could avoid repairing the self leveller
and were mated to XHD rear springs sourced via a 4x4 club. The front springs
were just HD. Bilstein shocks were fitted all round and to the steering.
This gave me what I wanted in load carrying and ride quality/height. Even
when pumped up, the polyair's didn't significantly alter ride quality but
gave adequate ride height adjustment. I never encountered the need to pump
them up to their maximum though. For a while I was working in the Alice and
a number of fast runs on the old south road (900km's of corrugations from
the SA/NT border to Pimba before they ruined it with bitumen) gave the setup
a good workout. It was perfect for clearing cattle grids in a single bound.
I can attest to the strength of the bags as I once unknowingly travelled
400Km, ending at Townsville, with a broken rear coil and didn't know it.
There was barely a mark on the bag despite rubbing against the broken end's
of the coil. I only noticed something was wrong when I had the vehicle on a
flat driveway and saw that it had a slight lean to one side. I first thought
that one bag was low in pressure, but when they checked out as OK I had to
crawl under the vehicle to search further. From the marks on the coil, my
guess was that a stone got caught between the coils as the suspension
compressed while on a small off-road side trip. It would seem that the bag
actually held the spring in place.
It's here that I have questions as to the fitting of these things:
1.. Would the situation have happened if the polyair's weren't fitted? It
could be possible that the stone (or what ever it was) wouldn't have got
caught up in the coils.
2.. The bags do take a bit of a set to their position inside the coil and
this can make it difficult to remove, and even more so for inserting in
another coil. A soapy solution was required for lubrication, but it was
still time consuming.
At that time I would have had no problem reccomending them. Without the
polyair's I would have had to use stiffer coils. They give you a wider
choice of coils & shocks to set up a vehicle for personal comfort and use.
It was the 2nd set that has soured me on them. There was a problem with them
not holding any pressure and on looking under the vehicle the sight I saw
was as per the attached link.
http://s670.photobucket.com/albums/vv62/phild12s131e/?action=view¤t=aae92c59.pbw
I don't have a picture of the pile of pieces that I pulled out of the coils.
It wasn't necessary to pull the springs out to get all the pieces out as the
bags were mostly quite brittle.
I sent an email enquiry to Polyair and the responses were far from
satisfactory and they accepted no responsibility and offered no discount in
getting a new set. A couple of the responses were curious in putting the
blame back on myself for supposedly not maintaining sufficient air pressure
on a continuous basis. Denial of that was of no help. I did get statements
of "non-inflation causing perishing" and "we expect 10 years easily for the
bag to be useful".
I've formed the impression that the materials used in the later bags are
more age sensitive and that if they aren't kept inflated and the vehicle
used on a very regular basis that they WILL perish like mine did. I've seen
this in the soles of boots/shoes that literally fall apart after a couple of
years, particularly if not used. The problem is that this starts happening
immediately on manufacturing so being left on stock shelves for some time
drastically reduces their life in the hands of the customer.
I don't know what documentation comes with current Polyair's but when I had
trouble with the 2nd set there seemed to be no information that was
available to customers that a number of factors could seriously reduce their
life expectancy.
Noddy, I do hope that you have better luck as that would mean that they are
worth getting again, but at the price they charge and the company attitude
to complaints, I won't be in a hurry to try them again.
PhilD
D Walford
They are a great idea, certainly a lot better than the old air shockers.
A mate in Qld has them fitted to his 80 series Cruiser which has been
converted to a dual cab ute and they easily keep the vehicle level when
fully loaded.
Especially good on vehicles with coil rear springs that don't carry a
load as well as leaves.
Daryl
Noddy
"PhilD" <replytonew...@aussient.com.au> wrote in message
news:LVVIm.52648$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> Noddy, I do hope that you have better luck as that would mean that they
> are worth getting again, but at the price they charge and the company
> attitude to complaints, I won't be in a hurry to try them again.
Interesting story, thanks for sharing.
Interesting that you commented about the price as for me that was one of the
things I liked about them. At 240 bucks for a pair of bags, coil springs and
associated brackets and fittings I thought they were *cheap*. Bearing in
mind that these are helper bags working in conjunction with factory leaf
springs, but they were almost exactly a hundred bucks cheaper than having
the factory springs re-worked and the ride quality is excellent.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
PhilD
before failure it wasn't very good value for money whereas the set I had for
10 years earnt their keep. I've been looking at the Polyair web site and can
find little in the way of warnings other than you must maintain a minimum of
5psi always. Nothing mentioned about "non-inflation causing perishing" but
the warranty is for 1 year or 20,000km which is why they dismissed my claim
after 4 years. I still think that mine sat on a shelf somewhere for too long
and started perishing before I got them.
At the price you paid I'm assuming that you have the red bag type not the
black bellows type which seems to be a far different material, and much more
expensive. Looking at the info on the bellows variety I was considering a
pair of them for the ute I hope to be getting within the next week for some
heavy load work but at $700 I'll see what it's like normally first.
By the way, in the pictures the shockers aren't the Bilstein's I raved a bit
about. After about 20 years they were finally starting to leak and failed me
on a rego inspection so I had to get some others quickly. Bad mistake, I
should have either seen if I could have got the old one's serviced or bought
the same again for very little extra. There's a subtle difference in the
ride quality that just isn't as comforting. The Bilstein's on corrugations
were brilliant.
PhilD
Jeßus
m...@home.com said...
:
:Just to be different I thought I might write a quick review of an
:car related :)
<snip>
Interesting, I've considered Polyairs a number of times over the years
but had doubts about their longevity. Please keep us posted on any pros
and cons Noddy.
Noddy
> At the price you paid I'm assuming that you have the red bag type not the
> black bellows type which seems to be a far different material, and much
> more expensive.
Yeah, I got the red ones.
> Looking at the info on the bellows variety I was considering a pair of
> them for the ute I hope to be getting within the next week for some heavy
> load work but at $700 I'll see what it's like normally first.
Good idea.
There's a few different types around, including one rubber bumper type which
looks a lot like the black bellows thing from Polyair but instead just uses
the compressibility of the rubber to do it's job. They look interesting.
> By the way, in the pictures the shockers aren't the Bilstein's I raved a
> bit about. After about 20 years they were finally starting to leak and
> failed me on a rego inspection so I had to get some others quickly. Bad
> mistake, I should have either seen if I could have got the old one's
> serviced or bought the same again for very little extra. There's a subtle
> difference in the ride quality that just isn't as comforting. The
> Bilstein's on corrugations were brilliant.
Nice.
I had a customer years ago with a Fiat 124 who spent more than the car was
worth for a full set of Koni shocks because some friend of his at work
suggested they'd make his car "handle like a go-kart", and he cried after I
fitted them and a quick drive revealed that they made absolutely no
difference to the car's handling ability.
Still, at least he got a nice, large "Koni" striker that he displayed
proudly on his back window :)
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
"Je�us" <no...@all.org> wrote in message
news:MPG.256063c37...@news.x-privat.org...
> Interesting, I've considered Polyairs a number of times over the years
> but had doubts about their longevity. Please keep us posted on any pros
> and cons Noddy.
Will do.
Not much to say against them so far. Fitting them in my particular case was
an unspecified quantity of urine, and the difference they've made to the
ride quality of the vehicle is brilliant. Both loaded *and* empty.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Jeßus
m...@home.com said...
:
:"Je�us" <no...@all.org> wrote in message
As an aside, a few blokes around here have fitted old coil springs
(mostly from old VB era Commodes) in much the same fashion as the
polyairs on the rear axles of their Hiluxs. Not so sure what this does
to the ride and handling though...
adamsra...@gmail.com
I contacted the Polyair about the fault and were not interested.
Regards
Mal Adams
Jeßus
Clocky
> Just to be different I thought I might write a quick review of an
> after-market product I tried out today, and to be a complete whacko it *is*
> car related :)
>
> For those who don't know (or those who do and couldn't care less anyway)
> I've got a 2005 RA Rodeo crew cab which I use as my mucking around hack.
> It's a 3.5 litre petrol auto that I've had for 18 months or so now and apart
> from having a thirst for petrol that's roughly the equivalent of a Tiger
> Tank at full noise it's proved to be an excellent vehicle that suits me down
> to the ground.
doesn't according to you?
Well, which is it?
Clocky
then the bags that sit inside coil springs.
Some vehicles require drilling, others don't. On some vehicles wide
wheels and the location on the diff centre means it can't sit perfectly
vertical but the bags are quite tolerant to that.
Time to fit averages a couple of hours.
You do need to be careful of the loading on the chassis however as the
loading point shifts and you depending on the weight on the back and the
distribution of it you can bend the chassis.
Plenty of horror stories if you care to Google them.
I would also recommend that you fit split auto-electrical conduit tubing
over the air lines for added protection and make sure they are well away
from the exhaust.
I've also seen one elbow start to leak where the threaded insert goes
into the top of the bag because it was too close to the exhaust after a
large exhaust system was fitted so extra shielding must be fitted in
that case.
Clocky
> "Jeßus" <no...@all.org> wrote in message
otherwise they seem pretty good.
Clocky
known to the point where owners should be made aware that the cant put
the bulk of their load too far back.
D Walford
>
> I hadn't heard about that one. The bending chassis issue is fairly well
> known to the point where owners should be made aware that the cant put
> the bulk of their load too far back.
but not so good on leaf sprung vehicles, something to do with the air
bags matching the original spring location so the loading location is
correct.
--
Daryl
Noddy
This has got to be some sort of record for the most delayed reply ever :)
> Polyair air springs, DO NOT fit these to a Mazda BT50 current model
> they do not work and should not be used.
> the distance between the
> chassis and the spring is 150mm, the air bag with it's brackets is
> 125mm. This gives you 25mm of suspension travel. The only way you are
> able to make the vehicle safe is to run 30lbs air pressure which
> rises the ride height 60mm and this is with an unloaded vehicle, this
> makes the ride very hard and unstable on the road and requires the
> head lights to be adjusted up for night driving. the instruction
> state to run 5lbs which causes the suspension to bottom out with a
> bump on the road. When towing it requires upward of 50lbs to stop the
> suspension bottoming out and ride height height of the trailer is too
> high at the front and too low at the rear. I contacted the Polyair
> about the fault and were not interested.
exist.
They're a *booster*, not a suspension replacement, and it doesn't matter
if they don't contact the chassis rails permanently. With the right
amount of air they will under load and they *don't* limit suspension travel.
They're only supposed to run like 25psi.
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
> I hadn't heard about that one.
6 years.
> The bending chassis issue is fairly well
> known to the point where owners should be made aware that the cant put
> the bulk of their load too far back.
suspension booster like the high pressure black bags that some people fit.
These things are not much different to air shockers.
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Clocky
intended purpose and rating (but don't last all that long). The leaf
spring mounted ones are called bellows and have a higher rating.
Jason James
Sound great,.wonder how they'd go on leaf-springs location-wise?
The 351 FC LTD had Gabriel air-shocks on the rear, as he used to tow a ski-boat with it. They were a POS. They were about 8 yo and leaked like a sieve.
Jason
Noddy
> So now suddenly it drinks like a Tiger tank but when I say it does, it
> doesn't according to you?
>
> Well, which is it?
to be *incredibly* lacking.
1: It may have escaped your view, but you're actually replying to a post
that was made in 2009. This not only *pre-dates* any comment you made
about fuel consumption of the 3.5 litre RA Rodeo, but by any stretch it
could not even *remotely* be considered "sudden" :)
2: Saying that it "drinks fuel like a Tiger Tank" is a figure of speech
that gives no real indication as to it's exact mileage other than it
being fair to conclude that it's "heavy", which it is. I haven't carried
out a petrol economy test for some time now as it spends 99.99% of it's
time running on gas, but the last time I did such a test it was around
15.5L/100km around town empty which I consider to be excessive for a
"modern" efi vehicle. This is especially so when compared to Daryl
Walford's 4 litre petrol Hilux which despite having a larger engine
seemed to average around 25% better.
3: Your subsequent comments of "Low 20's" being the norm are utterly
ridiculous, and can only mean that you've never driven one long enough
to know what the consumption rate was and simply pulled a random figure
out of your arse because you felt like it, or that you've driven one
that was completely *fucked* and you conclude that they're *all* like that.
For the record, mine gets 340km's on the knocker for 64 litres of lpg,
which equates to roughly 18l/100km on gas. It does better on petrol, and
there'd be something very wrong with it if it didn't.
In case you can't quite work out what this all means, I don't disagree
that it's a thirsty vehicle, and I never have done. All I'm saying is
that your figures are complete fantasy :)
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Clocky
universally but there are bags and then there are bellows.
Noddy
> I've fitted a dozen or so. Longevity seems quite good, certainly better
> then the bags that sit inside coil springs.
designed to do little other than keep the bags in place.
> Some vehicles require drilling, others don't. On some vehicles wide
> wheels and the location on the diff centre means it can't sit perfectly
> vertical but the bags are quite tolerant to that.
>
> Time to fit averages a couple of hours.
> You do need to be careful of the loading on the chassis however as the
> loading point shifts and you depending on the weight on the back and the
> distribution of it you can bend the chassis.
>
> Plenty of horror stories if you care to Google them.
>
> I would also recommend that you fit split auto-electrical conduit tubing
> over the air lines for added protection and make sure they are well away
> from the exhaust.
>
> I've also seen one elbow start to leak where the threaded insert goes
> into the top of the bag because it was too close to the exhaust after a
> large exhaust system was fitted so extra shielding must be fitted in
> that case.
The only thing I did with mine was to put each bag on it's own air
circuit so they could be inflated individually to compensate for uneven
loads.
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Jason James
Once the ABag fills to the extent it tries to lift the rear, means its fighting the OEM spring, which doesnt seem right to me.
Jason
Noddy
> Yes they are distinctly different products. People use the term airbag
> universally but there are bags and then there are bellows.
> http://polyair.com.au/products/polyair-red-series/
They came with their own coil springs.
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.
D Walford
caravan, apparently without them the rear sagged badly with the van on,
he had them for years without any problem and they didn't need much
pressure.
He replaced the 80 series with a new 78 series which has leaf springs,
he fitted uprated rear leaves instead of air bags and he's happy with
the result, only disadvantage is the ride is a bit harder.
--
Daryl
Noddy
> On Friday, November 6, 2009 at 11:16:33 PM UTC+11, Noddy wrote:
>
> Sound great,.wonder how they'd go on leaf-springs location-wise?
> http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c389/dasgib/IMAG6740_zpsmgllbjlo.jpg
They came supplied as fitted, with the coil spring and bracketry. The
bottom "perch" sits on the leaf spring just ahead of the diff housing,
and the top one uses one existing hole and one that had to be drilled if
I remember correctly. Aside from catching one of the lower perch bolts
on something once and snapping it I've never had a problem with the
things, and even with the broken bolt it still worked fine without
moving and I never even knew the bolt was broken until I had the thing
in the air to service it one time.
The bag looks like it has a massive amount of pressure in it, but it's
at 20psi which is where I run it 24/7. 25psi is maximum.
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Jason James
Jason
Jeßus
wrote:
out of old Commodores) to the back of their leaf sprung utes and they
seem to work quite well without making the ride overly firm or harming
wheel travel.
Clocky
Clocky
sit inside the existing coil (which work similarly to what you have) or
the bellows like these http://polyair.com.au/products/polyair-bellows/
I've also fitted these as a trial with the high pressure sleeve and them
seem to be OK too FWIW.
http://www.airbagman.com.au/
Jeßus
Noddy
> Ok, not done the ones that came with the spring, just the airbags that
> sit inside the existing coil (which work similarly to what you have) or
> the bellows like these http://polyair.com.au/products/polyair-bellows/
>
>
> I've also fitted these as a trial with the high pressure sleeve and them
> seem to be OK too FWIW.
>
>
> http://www.airbagman.com.au/
Schroeder valve each side of the tray for each bag.
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.
D Walford
exceed the vehicles GVM?
I think that that is where people go wrong, they think that just because
they fit airbags etc that they can exceed GVM which is of course very wrong.
--
Daryl