What are the symptoms of cracked control arm bushes?
x_d
I recently had a car serviced at an independent mechanic. However,
after the service, there was a comment that the control arm bushes
were cracked, and we were quoted 175 dollars to replace each side.
The problem is I am suspicious of this place, as after the service was
done at 38,000 km, the car started to leak automatic transmission
fluid. We had to take the car back and they stated that there was a
leak coming from the transmission pilot bush "O" ring. $120 later,
this was apparently sorted out.
So my question is, the car has only done 43,000 km, and yet these
problems arose. Admittedly, the car is eight years old and I wonder
if this is just the process of weathering causing the leakage as well
as the cracks in the control arm bushes. We also were recommended to
change the drive belt due to cracking and ageing. This I agreed to
and that cost us another $120.
The car is a 2001 MB C320. I don't take it to Mercedes any more due
to the fact that it is far too old to pay for high cost servicing if
it's not going to assist with the retained value.
For all you mechanics out there, are the faults above acceptable.
Also can you tell me if the cracked bushes can be examined and
verified easily. What would the symptoms be from the cracked control
arm bushes?
Unfortunately I am so paranoid that since the car came back, I felt
that it had more free play in the steering, and that doesn't seem to
be pointing straight ahead any more. I am now too suspicious of this
place to return to it for any further work (we actually asked for them
to give us back the old drive belt for curiosity, but the one that
they gave back is definitely not the one that was in the car in the
first place, although the drive belt in the car now appears to be
new).
Cheers.
Kev
> Hi all,
Some of the Fluid filled bushes have been known to split and leak quite
early in their life, usually replaced with solid rubber or urethane
types that last way longer
Kev
John McKenzie
>
>
> For all you mechanics out there, are the faults above acceptable.
> Also can you tell me if the cracked bushes can be examined and
> verified easily. What would the symptoms be from the cracked control
> arm bushes?
It really depends on the extent of their fatigue/deterioration but
generally the car would be less responsive on turn in, and over
undulations in the road, it may also pull to one side or another under
brakes.
The problem is that the condition is one of very gradual deterioration
(i.e. shy of a major impact with a kerb or something) so the changes in
roadholding/driving experience will be _VERY_ subtle and hard to detect
- over a period of years.
>
> Unfortunately I am so paranoid that since the car came back, I felt
> that it had more free play in the steering, and that doesn't seem to
> be pointing straight ahead any more.
There are certainly some shonky operators out there, but I can tell you
categorically, there would just plain be far too much work in
deliberately damagiung bushes on the hope of making a buck from their
replacement (or alternately the damage would be very obviously not
resultant from usual wear and tear - and I'm not about to discuss how
one might tamper with them to make them look fragged out)..
The thing is, they should be able to prop the car up on a hoist and
actually SHOW you the damage.
Most of the mercs I've seen have some fairly significant positive caster
in their standard wheel alignment/suspension geometry. This tends to
improve cornering ability (front end grip at least) as well as making
the car tend to track in a straight line more predictably at speed. It
also tends to be harsher on the front end (relatively) so 8 years life
out of factory bushes isn't necessarily ludicrous.
I am now too suspicious of this
> place to return to it for any further work (we actually asked for them
> to give us back the old drive belt for curiosity, but the one that
> they gave back is definitely not the one that was in the car in the
> first place, although the drive belt in the car now appears to be
> new).
Why not take it to a MB workshop (or another reputable one) for a second
opinion. You may choose to just ask them to check over the suspension in
general, say you are going on a long holiday, twisty roads etc, and want
to make sure it is in ship shape. If you tell them 'check the ctrl arm
bushes' it'll be what they spot, almost across the board. With a more
general request, you'll have the best chance of honest feedback.
As mentioned it's a progressive thing - there is some small amt of
cracking that isn't really massively detrimental to the safety of the
car.
As an aside, beware of arbirrarily 'upgrading' to urethane style
bushings which are touted as stronger. Tehy are 'stiffer' but offer no
compliance (ability to flex or 'give' to a small extnet which is
actually desirable/necessary in certain bushes/joints). There are some
joints that can safely use a urethane bush, and it all depends on
specifc car/design. With a few digi pics of the front end it won't be
hard to tell which are which.
--
John McKenzie
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Oz...@crackerbox-palace.com
Ummm they'll be cracked.
Put it up on a hoist or ramps and have a look.
Scam mechanics rely on you being too lazy or so lacking in knowledge
that you just accept and pay.
OzOne of the three twins
I welcome you to Crackerbox Palace.
John_H
>
<lots of good stuff snipped>
>
>The thing is, they should be able to prop the car up on a hoist and
>actually SHOW you the damage.
Wouldn't it be normal for the rubber to show significant external
cracking anyway (assuming Mercs use Metalastic bushes)?
That's to say a wood duck probably won't know the difference.
It never ceases to amaze what the shonks will try on, and what they
get away with. Nor do they ever seem particulary fazed when they are
caught out. Another opinion is usually the best option.
--
John H
Chubz
alt.auto.mercedes is a better place to ask.
George W Frost
"John_H" <john...@inbox.com> wrote in message
news:378r95dntee11tdig...@4ax.com...
I can vouch for that too
I had cars which needed some repairs through their life and I took them to a
Mercedes trained mechanic, (German) and he fixed the immediate problem, but
after a week or so, something else would go wrong with it, but with the cars
being older and with me doing about one thousand kilometres per week, I just
put it down to wear and tear for a car that age.
Then I neeeded to change the A/C compressor so I took it to him with a new
one I had got from someone who got it from under a counter somewhere, when I
got the car back, it would not change into fourth gear ( auto ) and as I
needed a car for my business, I bought another one.
Then, my daughter blew the motor on her little car, so I bought a smashed
one just for the motor, I took the motor out of both and took the car with
the new motor to this wonderful German Mercedes trained mechanic to put this
motor in, when we got it back a couple of days later, it went fine, till I
received a phone call from my daughter saying that her battery was flat, so
dutifully I went out in the cold dark night to find her on some back road
somewhere and I did find her without the assistance of a GPS, got it home,
thought it was the alternator as the light was on all the time, so I put the
old alternator from the blown motor in, same result a day later, then I
started checking around the wiring and found that he had taken the
alternator plug out of the socket and replaced it into another socket which
was doing fuck all for anything. When I confronted him with that, he just
said
" It vasnt me, vy vood I to sutch a ting, I am too pizzy mit odder vork?"
So, how can you win ??
Noddy
> Wouldn't it be normal for the rubber to show significant external
> cracking anyway (assuming Mercs use Metalastic bushes)?
Absolutely.
> That's to say a wood duck probably won't know the difference.
Which is probably what they're counting on.
> It never ceases to amaze what the shonks will try on, and what they
> get away with. Nor do they ever seem particulary fazed when they are
> caught out. Another opinion is usually the best option.
Agreed.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
x_d
> x_d wrote:
>
> > For all you mechanics out there, are the faults above acceptable.
> > Also can you tell me if the cracked bushes can be examined and
> > verified easily. What would the symptoms be from the cracked control
> > arm bushes?
>
>
> As mentioned it's a progressive thing - there is some small amt of
> cracking that isn't really massively detrimental to the safety of the
> car.
>
> As an aside, beware of arbirrarily 'upgrading' to urethane style
> bushings which are touted as stronger. Tehy are 'stiffer' but offer no
> compliance (ability to flex or 'give' to a small extnet which is
> actually desirable/necessary in certain bushes/joints). There are some
> joints that can safely use a urethane bush, and it all depends on
> specifc car/design. With a few digi pics of the front end it won't be
> hard to tell which are which.
>
> --
> John McKenzie
Thank you for your advice (and everybody else's). I might take a peep
this weekend under the car although the last time I had a look the car
had this plastic cover that is bolted underneath the engine (I gather
to improve air flow) that I may not be able to see what I am looking
for. Nevertheless, I had a quick search of "control arm bushes" under
google and have got a bit more of an idea what to look for.
What I might do is get the car a wheel alignment to straighten out the
steering wheel as well as getting a general feed back on the
suspension (of course not mentioning the word "bushes") and see what
they say. It's probably the least expensive option at the moment (Yes
I have read the threads on the pros and cons of wheel alignments that
have been here in this group before).
I guess it's not a hazardous item so I don't have to get it fixed
straight away if it's not really necessary.
Cheers.
x_d
>
> > For all you mechanics out there, are the faults above acceptable.
> > Also can you tell me if the cracked bushes can be examined and
> > verified easily. What would the symptoms be from the cracked control
> > arm bushes?
>
>
> The problem is that the condition is one of very gradual deterioration
> (i.e. shy of a major impact with a kerb or something) so the changes in
> roadholding/driving experience will be _VERY_ subtle and hard to detect
> - over a period of years.
Forgot to say that the roadholding outside of the straight ahead
appears to be ok.
>
<SNIP>
> Most of the mercs I've seen have some fairly significant positive caster
> in their standard wheel alignment/suspension geometry. This tends to
> improve cornering ability (front end grip at least)
Hehehe... The C320 definitely is not a car that has much front end
grip. But that's another matter entirely :-)
> as well as making
> the car tend to track in a straight line more predictably at speed. It
> also tends to be harsher on the front end (relatively) so 8 years life
> out of factory bushes isn't necessarily ludicrous.
I guess my question arose due to the fact that it has only covered
43000 km despite being 8 yrs old so does a car ageing in a garage be
expected to have the same problems.
>
>
<SNIP>
>
> As an aside, beware of arbirrarily 'upgrading' to urethane style
> bushings which are touted as stronger. Tehy are 'stiffer' but offer no
> compliance (ability to flex or 'give' to a small extnet which is
> actually desirable/necessary in certain bushes/joints).
A bit like stiffening up the crumple zone of a car to reduce damage in
a collision. Of course the shock is then transmitted to other parts
of the car (the occupants for example) :-(
> There are some
> joints that can safely use a urethane bush, and it all depends on
> specifc car/design. With a few digi pics of the front end it won't be
> hard to tell which are which.
>
> --
> John McKenzie
>
Cheers again.
x_d
> "John_H" <john4...@inbox.com> wrote in message
I was thinking of naming the place here to warn others but I wonder if
this would be a good idea, keeping in mind of issues of defamation as
it is my word against what happened.
What are the legal risks with these sorts of things (keeping in mind
this is not aus.legal etc...)
Cheers.
John McKenzie
>
> John McKenzie wrote:
> >
> <lots of good stuff snipped>
> >
> >The thing is, they should be able to prop the car up on a hoist and
> >actually SHOW you the damage.
>
> Wouldn't it be normal for the rubber to show significant external
> cracking anyway (assuming Mercs use Metalastic bushes)?
That's not a bad point - I didn't consider that. Maybe a couple of pics
would help? (give me a day or two)
John McKenzie
>
> What I might do is get the car a wheel alignment to straighten out the
> steering wheel as well as getting a general feed back on the
> suspension (of course not mentioning the word "bushes") and see what
> they say. It's probably the least expensive option at the moment (Yes
> I have read the threads on the pros and cons of wheel alignments that
> have been here in this group before).
I wouldn't go that way. A wheel alignment will only 'hold' or be any
good if the bushes and ball joints are in good condition and keep things
'true' if there is play in the suspension, then whatever setting you
align it to, it can slop this way and that and be at various
angles/alignments from one second to the next.
>
> I guess it's not a hazardous item so I don't have to get it fixed
> straight away if it's not really necessary.
Look if they _are_ really fragged it _is_ a big deal imho, but you'd
generally have the car pulling badly under brakes etc beforehand. If the
steering wheel is now non centred when driving straight that's actually
a fairly good sign something is amis (unless it was fine before you took
it to the previous mechanic, it wouldn't take long to adjust a couple of
tie rods to upset the centering of the steering wheel.
x_d
> x_d wrote:
>
> > What I might do is get the car a wheel alignment to straighten out the
> > steering wheel as well as getting a general feed back on the
> > suspension (of course not mentioning the word "bushes") and see what
> > they say. It's probably the least expensive option at the moment (Yes
> > I have read the threads on the pros and cons of wheel alignments that
> > have been here in this group before).
>
> I wouldn't go that way. A wheel alignment will only 'hold' or be any
> good if the bushes and ball joints are in good condition and keep things
> 'true' if there is play in the suspension, then whatever setting you
> align it to, it can slop this way and that and be at various
> angles/alignments from one second to the next.
>
>
>
> > I guess it's not a hazardous item so I don't have to get it fixed
> > straight away if it's not really necessary.
>
> Look if they _are_ really fragged it _is_ a big deal imho, but you'd
> generally have the car pulling badly under brakes etc beforehand. If the
> steering wheel is now non centred when driving straight that's actually
> a fairly good sign something is amis (unless it was fine before you took
> it to the previous mechanic, it wouldn't take long to adjust a couple of
> tie rods to upset the centering of the steering wheel.
>
> --
> John McKenzie
Hi John,
That's exactly it. I felt that it was fine before I took the car in
for servicing. I am hoping that a reputable wheel alignment place can
correct the steering wheel angle and have a quick look at the
suspension and give me a report. And no, the car is not pulling at
all under brakes.
In your opinion, could the control arm (lower) bushes be completely
fragged at 43000kms?
Cheers.
>
> toss...@aol.com ab...@yahoo.com ab...@hotmail.com ab...@earthlink.com
> ab...@aol.com vice.presid...@whitehouse.gov presid...@whitehouse.gov
> sweep....@accc.gov.au u...@ftc.gov admin@loopback ab...@iprimus.com.au
> $LOGIN@localhost I knew Sanchez before they were dirty r...@mailloop.com
> $USER@$HOST $LOGNAME@localhost -h1024@localhost ab...@msn.com
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> $USER@localhost ab...@sprint.com ab...@fbi.gov ab...@cia.gov
x_d
> John_H wrote:
>
> > John McKenzie wrote:
>
> > <lots of good stuff snipped>
>
> > >The thing is, they should be able to prop the car up on a hoist and
> > >actually SHOW you the damage.
>
> > Wouldn't it be normal for the rubber to show significant external
> > cracking anyway (assuming Mercs use Metalastic bushes)?
>
> That's not a bad point - I didn't consider that. Maybe a couple of pics
> would help? (give me a day or two)
I will take some in the next couple of days and post them if you are
still interested.
Cheers.
>
> --
> John McKenzie
>
> toss...@aol.com ab...@yahoo.com ab...@hotmail.com ab...@earthlink.com
> ab...@aol.com vice.presid...@whitehouse.gov presid...@whitehouse.gov
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> $LOGIN@localhost I knew Sanchez before they were dirty r...@mailloop.com
> $USER@$HOST $LOGNAME@localhost -h1024@localhost ab...@msn.com
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> $USER@localhost ab...@sprint.com ab...@fbi.gov ab...@cia.gov
John McKenzie
x_d wrote:
>
> I will take some in the next couple of days and post them if you are
> still interested.
I meant I should take some myself to try and show the difference :) !!
I haven't had time to do that (and I'd have to find some buggered ones
in a bin or something) so here is a diagram of sorts. I suck at art, so
bear with me nonetheless.
Basically you are looking for major tears in the rubber. By virtue of
their function, they split and tend to have larger gaps closer to the
centre, and tapering thinner as they travel outward.
Lots of tiny, random cracks - don't bother about it at all.
Major tears like the other pic, yes change them.
http://jmac.performanceforums.com/control arm bush.jpg
The colours are only for the diagram to identify the parts, in real life
the outer and inner sleeves might be black or shiny metal, and the bush
will almost always be black rubber in colour.
======
> That's exactly it. I felt that it was fine before I took the car in
> for servicing. I am hoping that a reputable wheel alignment place can
> correct the steering wheel angle and have a quick look at the
> suspension and give me a report.
I'd honestly get the suspension _checked_ before bothering with the
wheel alignment. If they find nothing amis with the bushes/balljoints,
then certainly get them to align it (if required) and centre the
steering wheel.
I should caution here that not all wheel alignment places are created
equal. In hte last 20 years or so, many of the mass produced front wheel
drive cars have only the scope to adjust toe-in, which is the simplest
to conceive of and actually alter on any car (even those with everything
else being adjustable). The result being there are wheel alignment
places that will by default only bother or worse yet only know how to
adjust toe-in. You _really_ need to find a competent place to do it, and
those aren't necessarily easy to find, as they likely don't have massive
advertising , they get their business from word of mouth and by having
customers for life. Another avenue is to ask racers - circuit race
vehicles require non traditional (for road cars) suspension settings, so
they need aligners who know their way around a front end and can set the
car up to any requirement. They are typically worth every penny, and can
easily set a car up for the street as well.
They are rare enough (not rare full stop mind you) that a lot of people
I know actually make/buy their own measuring tools and do their own
wheel alignments, where they have the time to get it 'just right' at
their leisure.
I don't mean to sound like a panic merchant, but at some wheel alignment
places, you are dealing with people who never did an apprenticeship in
the trade, and can range from genius to just barely 10 minutes of
instruction before they are let loose on customer's cars.
Maybe (and I can't speak for myself here, because I am one of the people
who have been doing my own alignments for well over a decade, prior to
that, I knew a local tyre shop owner who would let me and some friends
use their equipment on a quiet weekend, (at their convenience, and if we
had to wait a month we did so) adjusting the car till it was right, our
time effort (and we'd sweep up and stuff too, just to be fair) and if
they needed the equipment, we'd roll teh car off immediately. But that
place has changed hands, and with no other decent alternative, I went
diy, and have never looked back.
> And no, the car is not pulling at
> all under brakes.
Generally speaking - that is a good sign, and the bushes might be ok.
>
> In your opinion, could the control arm (lower) bushes be completely
> fragged at 43000kms?
Quite easily - if you drive on corrugated roads or rough stuff, or
alternately if the car has leaked oil and some has made it's way onto
the bushes. They don't like either of those. Similarly the proliferation
of speed humps every 10 metres or so in suburban streets by the nanny
state local councils to 'save the children' massively shortens brake
pad, suspension component life, and of course increases fuel consumption
big time (so much for the environment and finite resources of fossil
fuels ya greenies!).
However it _is_ shorter than I would expect for many driving conditions.
I'd have to know the roads you drive on and how you drive them (don't
need a gps location, just a description).
If the damage has been due to oil exposure softening/stuffing the rubber
then you must attend to the oil leaks of the new bushes will go hte same
way in short order.
--
John McKenzie
tos...@aol.com ab...@yahoo.com ab...@hotmail.com ab...@earthlink.com
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$LOGIN@localhost I knew Sanchez before they were dirty ro...@mailloop.com
$USER@$HOST $LOGNAME@localhost -h1024@localhost ab...@msn.com
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$USER@localhost ab...@sprint.com ab...@fbi.gov ab...@cia.gov
Albm&ctd
xd...@hotmail.com says...
> The car is a 2001 MB C320.
>
Why don't you just go orf, go orf I say.. to a local wheel alignment shop.
They will tell you if the front end needs work because an alignment won't be
worth doing. Scrubbing tyres? No not you, the car.
Al
--
I don't take sides.
It's more fun to insult everyone.
http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html
x_d
> replies to two of your posts in thie reply.
>
Thanks John.
> x_d wrote:
>
> > I will take some in the next couple of days and post them if you are
> > still interested.
>
> I meant I should take some myself to try and show the difference :) !!
>
> I haven't had time to do that (and I'd have to find some buggered ones
> in a bin or something) so here is a diagram of sorts. I suck at art, so
> bear with me nonetheless.
>
> Basically you are looking for major tears in the rubber. By virtue of
> their function, they split and tend to have larger gaps closer to the
> centre, and tapering thinner as they travel outward.
>
> Lots of tiny, random cracks - don't bother about it at all.
>
> Major tears like the other pic, yes change them.
>
> http://jmac.performanceforums.com/controlarm bush.jpg
>
> The colours are only for the diagram to identify the parts, in real life
> the outer and inner sleeves might be black or shiny metal, and the bush
> will almost always be black rubber in colour.
I will look at the car if any get some time this weekend.
Unfortunately my brother just got admitted to hospital with a heart
attack, at the tender age of 35! So it's a bit of a family crisis at
the moment (BTW, for everybody out there who wants to listen, do
follow the doctors advice regarding lifestyle changes and control of
the risk factors of heart disease! They are silent killers and most
of us don't tend to pay much attention to the risk factors because
they don't give you any symptoms till too late).
>
> ======
>
> > That's exactly it. I felt that it was fine before I took the car in
> > for servicing. I am hoping that a reputable wheel alignment place can
> > correct the steering wheel angle and have a quick look at the
> > suspension and give me a report.
>
> I'd honestly get the suspension _checked_ before bothering with the
> wheel alignment. If they find nothing amis with the bushes/balljoints,
> then certainly get them to align it (if required) and centre the
> steering wheel.
Will do.
>
> I should caution here that not all wheel alignment places are created
> equal. In hte last 20 years or so, many of the mass produced front wheel
> drive cars have only the scope to adjust toe-in, which is the simplest
> to conceive of and actually alter on any car (even those with everything
> else being adjustable). The result being there are wheel alignment
> places that will by default only bother or worse yet only know how to
> adjust toe-in. You _really_ need to find a competent place to do it, and
> those aren't necessarily easy to find, as they likely don't have massive
> advertising , they get their business from word of mouth and by having
> customers for life. Another avenue is to ask racers - circuit race
> vehicles require non traditional (for road cars) suspension settings, so
> they need aligners who know their way around a front end and can set the
> car up to any requirement. They are typically worth every penny, and can
> easily set a car up for the street as well.
I think I know of one. Well at least my brother knows of a reputable
one that does work for MX-5 club members in Brisbane, so I will take
the C320 there for him to have a look.
>
> > And no, the car is not pulling at
> > all under brakes.
>
> Generally speaking - that is a good sign, and the bushes might be ok.
That's good news.
>
>
>
> > In your opinion, could the control arm (lower) bushes be completely
> > fragged at 43000kms?
>
> Quite easily - if you drive on corrugated roads or rough stuff, or
> alternately if the car has leaked oil and some has made it's way onto
> the bushes. They don't like either of those. Similarly the proliferation
> of speed humps every 10 metres or so in suburban streets by the nanny
> state local councils to 'save the children' massively shortens brake
> pad, suspension component life, and of course increases fuel consumption
> big time (so much for the environment and finite resources of fossil
> fuels ya greenies!).
>
> However it _is_ shorter than I would expect for many driving conditions.
> I'd have to know the roads you drive on and how you drive them (don't
> need a gps location, just a description).
I'd say that we live in suburbia in the south of Brisbane. The
streets here are pretty smooth and we haven't taken the car to any
places that are overly rough.
>
> If the damage has been due to oil exposure softening/stuffing the rubber
> then you must attend to the oil leaks of the new bushes will go hte same
> way in short order.
Will update the thread when I get a chance to look.
BTW, the some of the folks here mentioned that you are an invaluable
source of information. And they are right.
Do you work in a car service place (though from what you wrote, it's
not likely as you'd have access to all your alignment gear from
work)? If you do, and are located in the south of Brisbane, I'd be
taking all my cars to you for work down the track :-)
Cheers.
>
> --
> John McKenzie
>
> toss...@aol.com ab...@yahoo.com ab...@hotmail.com ab...@earthlink.com
> ab...@aol.com vice.presid...@whitehouse.gov presid...@whitehouse.gov
> sweep....@accc.gov.au u...@ftc.gov admin@loopback ab...@iprimus.com.au
> $LOGIN@localhost I knew Sanchez before they were dirty r...@mailloop.com
> $USER@$HOST $LOGNAME@localhost -h1024@localhost ab...@msn.com
> ab...@federalpolice.gov.au fraudi...@psinet.com ab...@asio.gov.au
> $USER@localhost ab...@sprint.com ab...@fbi.gov ab...@cia.gov
x_d
> In article <43eee02c-6f6f-4555-81e4-e5fa2a49e...@l35g2000pra.googlegroups.com>,
> x...@hotmail.com says...> The car is a 2001 MB C320.
>
> Where's that one made.. China?
> Why don't you just go orf, go orf I say.. to a local wheel alignment shop.
> They will tell you if the front end needs work because an alignment won't be
> worth doing. Scrubbing tyres? No not you, the car.
>
> Al
> --
> I don't take sides.
> It's more fun to insult everyone.http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html
Ummm... I believe that the model year was made in South Africa (I
think they are still made there but I haven't checked recently).
The wheel alignment idea has been raised. But John McK has gone
through that quite comprehensively.
Cheers.
Albm&ctd
xd...@hotmail.com says...
Albm&ctd
xd...@hotmail.com says...
> will look at the car if any get some time this weekend.
> Unfortunately my brother just got admitted to hospital with a heart
> attack, at the tender age of 35! So it's a bit of a family crisis at
> the moment (BTW, for everybody out there who wants to listen, do
> follow the doctors advice regarding lifestyle changes and control of
> the risk factors of heart disease! They are silent killers and most
> of us don't tend to pay much attention to the risk factors because
> they don't give you any symptoms till too late).
>
>
Junk food is bayud..Mkay?
I reached 56 a few days ago drinking piss.. Vodka etc, including home brew.
What message will that give to doctors? Get 20+ years more from Ethanol?
John McKenzie
I'm reminded of Groucho Marx - not wanting to belong to any club that
would actually have him as a member :)
>
> Do you work in a car service place (though from what you wrote, it's
> not likely as you'd have access to all your alignment gear from
> work)?
A long time ago I did an apprenticeship as a motor mech, I never
finished it (though I was all but 2 weeks from finished the trade school
blocks) partly due to 'the recession we had to have' and the other part
being some of the dodgy arseholes who took advantage of it and scammed
apprentices seeking to finish their time when their original workshop
went under.
I swore never to work in it again, though naturally enough continued
work on my own gear, and a small fleet of friends and families cars. I
also ended up doing a few days a week here and there with a couple of
different engine machinists/reconditioners (which I wasn't technically
qualified for, and did consider doing an apprenticeship under, but saw
the potential writing on the wall for a lot of them as we move further
into the global warming scaremongering - but I did genuinely enjoy the
work, far more than I enjoyed motor mechanic stuff)
I find myself now mostly working outside of any of that type of work,
going where the money/hours are available, and it (ironically) finds me
awake at odd hours with respect to any days or time off I have between
shifts, so if it's too late/early to make a lot of noise in the shed,
I"ll spend a bit of time screwing around here or whatever - gotta be
better than tv. There's a movement of sorts that is classed loosely as
ethical hacking, based on the premise that information should always be
an available resource and not restricted by class or whatever. To that
end I've certainly gotten a lot of free help from people on the net, and
endeavour to contribute in whatever form I am able. I might not pay back
the exact same people, of course, but it all goes around.
If you do, and are located in the south of Brisbane, I'd be
> taking all my cars to you for work down the track :-)
I'll keep it in mind if I ever move to Brissie :)
Pleease don't forget to post pics or even just descriptions of what you
find and whatever progress you make, I'll bet a few people are lurking
here and learning from it.
--
John McKenzie
tos...@aol.com ab...@yahoo.com ab...@hotmail.com ab...@earthlink.com
ab...@aol.com vice.pr...@whitehouse.gov pres...@whitehouse.gov
swee...@accc.gov.au u...@ftc.gov admin@loopback ab...@iprimus.com.au
$LOGIN@localhost I knew Sanchez before they were dirty ro...@mailloop.com
$USER@$HOST $LOGNAME@localhost -h1024@localhost ab...@msn.com
ab...@federalpolice.gov.au frau...@psinet.com ab...@asio.gov.au
$USER@localhost ab...@sprint.com ab...@fbi.gov ab...@cia.gov
Jason James
"Albm&ctd" <alb_mand...@connexus.net.au> wrote in message
news:MPG.250f806fb...@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article
> <939f77a2-95b5-44b9...@13g2000prl.googlegroups.com>,
> xd...@hotmail.com says...
>> will look at the car if any get some time this weekend.
>> Unfortunately my brother just got admitted to hospital with a heart
>> attack, at the tender age of 35! So it's a bit of a family crisis at
>> the moment (BTW, for everybody out there who wants to listen, do
>> follow the doctors advice regarding lifestyle changes and control of
>> the risk factors of heart disease! They are silent killers and most
>> of us don't tend to pay much attention to the risk factors because
>> they don't give you any symptoms till too late).
>>
>>
> Damn, hope he pulls through.
> Junk food is bayud..Mkay?
> I reached 56 a few days ago drinking piss.. Vodka etc, including home
> brew.
> What message will that give to doctors? Get 20+ years more from Ethanol?
>
> Al
You're OK Al provided you dont smoke,....and that includes inhaling fumes
from the Lada and your POS Italian bike,...OK?
Jason