Falcon wagon might be dropped
Dan----
http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=67334&vf=7
Ford's Falcon wagon, a staple of Aussie families for almost five decades,
looks set to meet its maker just months before its 50th birthday.
In a move that could provide a pointer to the future of the entire Falcon
range, the Ford wagon looks set to fall victim to the smaller and more
efficient Mondeo, imported from Europe.
Ford decided against updating the wagon version of the Falcon when it
introduced its new FG range last year, sticking with the car's outdated rear
suspension and existing four-speed transmission so that it could offer the
car at a reduced price to fleet customers.
But the wagon has been comprehensively beaten in the sales race by Holden's
svelte-looking new Commodore Sportwagon, which has been a big hit, regularly
outselling the most popular four-wheel-drives on the market.
The Commodore has outsold the Falcon despite a significantly smaller load
area, which has Ford reconsidering whether the mid-sized Mondeo wagon would
be better equipped to take the fight to the Sportwagon. The Mondeo is
smaller, more modern and more fuel-efficient than the Falcon, but has a
bigger load area than the Commodore.
"We've been please with the Mondeo acceptance and the wagon in particular is
now starting to attract an enormous amount of interest from fleets, the
government, and we're seeing interest from small business and the private
buyer," Ford president Marin Burela told journalists this week.
"The Falcon wagon has been a great vehicle for us and we're continuing to
monitor and study it. The great challenge is to make sure we're not
competing with ourselves in the actual market and what we're beginning to
see is that more and more of our customers that have bought into the Falcon
wagon are now looking at the Mondeo and saying 'wow, the package of the
Mondeo is outstanding'.
"So we're looking at this and talking to our customers and asking them,
'what is it that you want?'. We haven't made any firm or definitive decision
on anything. We will probably be in a position by the end of this year or by
early January to be able to make a declaration on where we're going with the
Falcon wagon."
In contrast with the wagon, the Falcon sedan last month outsold its
Commodore rival for the first time since 2006.
But doubts remain about the long term future of the Falcon range, with the
Mondeo looming as a likely long-term successor.
The cars are very similar in size and will soon be powered by the same
twin-turbo four-cylinder engine, prompting speculation that Ford may decide
it's no longer economical to build two similar cars on different platforms.
Not surprised that it will be dropped due to the success of the Terribly.
---
Regards
Dan.
Deevo
news:03161a96$0$1336$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
<snip>
> But the wagon has been comprehensively beaten in the sales race by
> Holden's svelte-looking new Commodore Sportwagon, which has been a big
> hit, regularly outselling the most popular four-wheel-drives on the
> market.
Svelte new Commodore???
Sorry to say it but the guy that designmed the new Commodore wagon deserves
to be hung, drawn and quatered. Then dragged across the Nullabor behind
one.
It's possibly the ugliest car Holden have ever built.
Clocky
"Deevo" <dee...@NOSPAMbigpond.com> wrote in message
news:4yxNm.56214$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Taste is subjective but I don't think many would agree with you there. IMO,
it's one of the nicest wagons ever produced not that I would buy one because
it's still a Holden and I intend to make sure that they never get a cent or
my purchasing dollar ever again.
Dan----
"Deevo" <dee...@NOSPAMbigpond.com> wrote in message
news:4yxNm.56214$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> Svelte new Commodore???
>
> Sorry to say it but the guy that designmed the new Commodore wagon
> deserves to be hung, drawn and quatered. Then dragged across the Nullabor
> behind one.
>
> It's possibly the ugliest car Holden have ever built.
I disagree its the best looking Commodore made and its beating the living
snot out of Ford in wagon sales.
---
Regards
Dan.
Dan----
"Clocky" <not...@happen.com> wrote in message
news:0316c0b3$0$1379$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>
>>
>
> Taste is subjective but I don't think many would agree with you there.
> IMO, it's one of the nicest wagons ever produced not that I would buy one
> because it's still a Holden and I intend to make sure that they never get
> a cent or my purchasing dollar ever again.
Im glad I got the E series HSV series 1 before the E series HSV 2 came out
the ol term plastic pig from the VL Walkingshaw gets to be used again apart
from the Senator which was the only decent looking HSV sedan made. Although
when the mrs drives the Tourer she gets a fair bit of attention too.
Im stoked with my HSV Tourer but I wont be buying another one or a Ford
again too.
I'd probably look at something European instead and become a snob. ;-).
---
Regards
Dan.
Jeßus
said...
:
:"Deevo" <dee...@NOSPAMbigpond.com> wrote in message
I hate to admit it, but I agree - the current wagon is at least one of
the nicest shaped wagons Holden has made. You don't many on the road,
though - or Ford wagons for that matter. Wagons must be going out of
style, or possibly people have shifted to soft-roaders and bigger 4X4s.
D Walford
have to disagree.
IMO the Sports wagon would be better described as a Commodore hatchback
as the load area is small compared to a conventional wagon.
Daryl
D Walford
The reason for the demise of the Falcon wagon is the success of the
Territory, the Commodore wagon having a much smaller load area appeals
to different buyers so IMO they don't really compare.
Daryl
Clocky
"D Walford" <dwal...@internode.on.net> wrote in message
news:0090add1$0$26900$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
No, it's just the clever styling that makes it look like that.
D Walford
neighbour who works for Holden has had a couple of Sports wagons and he
said he loves the car but as far as wagons goes it its too small to be
much value.
Unlike previous wagons its built on the sedan platform so it must be
smaller.
Daryl
Clocky
> Clocky wrote:
>> "D Walford" <dwal...@internode.on.net> wrote in message
>> news:0090add1$0$26900$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>>> Deevo wrote:
>>>> "Dan----" <N...@email.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:03161a96$0$1336$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>>>> <snip>
>>>>> But the wagon has been comprehensively beaten in the sales race by
>>>>> Holden's svelte-looking new Commodore Sportwagon, which has been a big
>>>>> hit, regularly outselling the most popular four-wheel-drives on the
>>>>> market.
>>>> Svelte new Commodore???
>>>>
>>>> Sorry to say it but the guy that designmed the new Commodore wagon
>>>> deserves to be hung, drawn and quatered. Then dragged across the
>>>> Nullabor behind one.
>>>>
>>>> It's possibly the ugliest car Holden have ever built.
>>> I'm not a fan of Holden styling but in the case of the Sports wagon I'd
>>> have to disagree.
>>> IMO the Sports wagon would be better described as a Commodore hatchback
>>> as the load area is small compared to a conventional wagon.
>>>
>>
>> No, it's just the clever styling that makes it look like that.
>>
> It is a lot smaller in the load area than a conventional wagon,
No question of that, I mean the styling makes it look hatchlike but IMO that
does enhance it's look greatly.
> neighbour who works for Holden has had a couple of Sports wagons and he
> said he loves the car but as far as wagons goes it its too small to be
> much value.
> Unlike previous wagons its built on the sedan platform so it must be
> smaller.
It's a lot smaller but with the seats down it's still quite a handy amount
of storage space compared to the sedans, and easier to access so it's still
fairly practical. Pity it has a Holden badge.
II
> fairly practical. Pity it has a Holden badge.
>
I seem to recall you work(ed) for Holden ?
Pit
> http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=67334&...
this week.
What will the Govt and other fllets buy now ?
I kind of have a soft spot for the Falcon wagons
Great for reps etc
Clocky
"II" <i...@t.p.g> wrote in message
news:75OdnWWGJYmPH5XW...@westnet.com.au...
>
>> fairly practical. Pity it has a Holden badge.
>>
>
> I seem to recall you work(ed) for Holden ?
>
Amongst many others... what is your point?
Brad
-"Pit" <spaml...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6c80ccef-4e3e-478...@w19g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
--On Nov 20, 1:43 pm, "Dan----" <N...@email.com> wrote:
-> http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=67334&...
- this week.
-What will the Govt and other fllets buy now ?
-I kind of have a soft spot for the Falcon wagons
-
-Great for reps etc
I had an XB with the dual action tailgate, what an impressive idea. you
could fold it down or swing it open like a door, it did weigh a ton though
(the tailgate).
--
Brad Leyden
6� 43.5816' S 146� 59.3097' E WGS84
To mail spam is really hot but please reply to thread so all may benefit (or
laugh at my mistakes)
>
>
Marts
> I hate to admit it, but I agree - the current wagon is at least one of
> the nicest shaped wagons Holden has made. You don't many on the road,
> though - or Ford wagons for that matter. Wagons must be going out of
> style, or possibly people have shifted to soft-roaders and bigger 4X4s.
In the US wagons were passed over in favor of cars such as the Chrysler Voyager
many years ago. That it took so long for it to happen here is a bit surprising.
But then the different markets' tastes vary, so maybe not so surprising.
What I find difficult to understand is why your typical suburban family would
want to opt for say, a Landcruiser rather than a cheaper people mover? Many say
that it's because they feel safer in a big 4WD, but is this really the case?
Certainly, when you see the housewives struggling to get them in and out of car
parks, lined up at schools causing general traffic mayhem you gotta wonder why
they let their husbands stroke their egos with these things.
--
Computer games don't affect kids... I mean, if Pacman affected us as kids, we'd all run around in a darkened room munching pills and listening to repetitive music.
Marts
> > It's possibly the ugliest car Holden have ever built.
> >
>
> Taste is subjective but I don't think many would agree with you there. IMO,
> it's one of the nicest wagons ever produced not that I would buy one because
My wife has the view that wagons are so Mr/Mrs Average Family in style and just
plain ugly. But she likes the Commodore wagon. A mate has an SSV wagon which
she's impressed with.
It may be our next car, certainly, the last one that we'd get on a novated lease
after the Tribby's lease expires.
--
The next war will determine not what is right, but what is left.
D Walford
> Je�us wrote...
>
>> I hate to admit it, but I agree - the current wagon is at least one of
>> the nicest shaped wagons Holden has made. You don't many on the road,
>> though - or Ford wagons for that matter. Wagons must be going out of
>> style, or possibly people have shifted to soft-roaders and bigger 4X4s.
>
> In the US wagons were passed over in favor of cars such as the Chrysler Voyager
> many years ago. That it took so long for it to happen here is a bit surprising.
>
> But then the different markets' tastes vary, so maybe not so surprising.
>
> What I find difficult to understand is why your typical suburban family would
> want to opt for say, a Landcruiser rather than a cheaper people mover? Many say
> that it's because they feel safer in a big 4WD, but is this really the case?
>
> Certainly, when you see the housewives struggling to get them in and out of car
> parks, lined up at schools causing general traffic mayhem you gotta wonder why
> they let their husbands stroke their egos with these things.
>
>
If they all got rid of their 4WD's and bought people movers which have
to be as big to carry the same number of people how would that change
anything?
Daryl
Jeßus
dwal...@internode.on.net said...
:
No transfer case or front diff, for starters.
I've often wondered why the likes of Toyota and Nissan don't make a 2WD
variant of the Landcruiser and Patrols. How many of the urban owned 4WDs
actually see off-road work? I'm talking about your typical suburban
family here. Or perhaps those types of owners prefer to delude
themselves that they need the extra loss of economy?
Jeßus
ma...@ymail.com said...
:
:Je�us wrote...
:
:> I hate to admit it, but I agree - the current wagon is at least one of
:> the nicest shaped wagons Holden has made. You don't many on the road,
:> though - or Ford wagons for that matter. Wagons must be going out of
:> style, or possibly people have shifted to soft-roaders and bigger 4X4s.
:
:In the US wagons were passed over in favor of cars such as the Chrysler Voyager
:many years ago. That it took so long for it to happen here is a bit surprising.
:
:But then the different markets' tastes vary, so maybe not so surprising.
:
:What I find difficult to understand is why your typical suburban family would
:want to opt for say, a Landcruiser rather than a cheaper people mover? Many say
:that it's because they feel safer in a big 4WD, but is this really the case?
For some, I guess it does.
:Certainly, when you see the housewives struggling to get them in and out of car
:parks, lined up at schools causing general traffic mayhem you gotta wonder why
:they let their husbands stroke their egos with these things.
I must admit, it has always made me wanna chuck somewhat to see the rise
in the popularity of 4WDs over the years into suburbia. 90% of them
never see any off-road duty. so WTF do they really want them for?
As for all the housewives, you see many who have no real natural
instinct or feel for that size of vehicle on the road, as evidenced in
car parks and outside schools, as you mention.
Often you see men and women alike trying to use 4WDs as some form of
weapon, or intimidation on the roads... doesn't work on somebody like
me, who had to learn to drive whilst sharing the road with road trains.
Noddy
"Je�us" <no...@all.org> wrote in message
news:MPG.257ca89c1...@news.x-privat.org...
> I must admit, it has always made me wanna chuck somewhat to see the rise
> in the popularity of 4WDs over the years into suburbia. 90% of them
> never see any off-road duty. so WTF do they really want them for?
Practicality would be my guess. Compared to a regular sedan they're *way*
more useful as far as a family vehicle goes. Especially if you have young
kids in special seats.
> As for all the housewives, you see many who have no real natural
> instinct or feel for that size of vehicle on the road, as evidenced in
> car parks and outside schools, as you mention.
You do, but then around my way school drop off and pick up times are bedlam
regardless of the types of vehicles involved.
> Often you see men and women alike trying to use 4WDs as some form of
> weapon, or intimidation on the roads... doesn't work on somebody like
> me, who had to learn to drive whilst sharing the road with road trains.
Yeah, there's always the "I'm bigger than you" factor, which is a game most
truck drivers like to play. Of course, you can always try to induce your
menacing 4wd owner into a game of "catch me you fucking wanker" and see if
you can get them to stick the thing on it's lid at the first corner :)
--
Regards,
Noddy.
D Walford
> In article <009b6af2$0$26889$c3e...@news.astraweb.com>,
> dwal...@internode.on.net said...
> :
> :Marts wrote:
> :> Je�us wrote...
> :>
> :>> I hate to admit it, but I agree - the current wagon is at least one of
> :>> the nicest shaped wagons Holden has made. You don't many on the road,
> :>> though - or Ford wagons for that matter. Wagons must be going out of
> :>> style, or possibly people have shifted to soft-roaders and bigger 4X4s.
> :>
> :> In the US wagons were passed over in favor of cars such as the Chrysler Voyager
> :> many years ago. That it took so long for it to happen here is a bit surprising.
> :>
> :> But then the different markets' tastes vary, so maybe not so surprising.
> :>
> :> What I find difficult to understand is why your typical suburban family would
> :> want to opt for say, a Landcruiser rather than a cheaper people mover? Many say
> :> that it's because they feel safer in a big 4WD, but is this really the case?
> :>
> :> Certainly, when you see the housewives struggling to get them in and out of car
> :> parks, lined up at schools causing general traffic mayhem you gotta wonder why
> :> they let their husbands stroke their egos with these things.
> :>
> :>
> :Where does this fantasy happen?
> :If they all got rid of their 4WD's and bought people movers which have
> :to be as big to carry the same number of people how would that change
> :anything?
>
> No transfer case or front diff, for starters.
How would that change the vehicles size and the fiction that swapping
4WD's for people movers would have any affect on parking problems?
Daryl
Jeßus
m...@home.com said...
:
:"Je�us" <no...@all.org> wrote in message
:
:> I must admit, it has always made me wanna chuck somewhat to see the rise
:> in the popularity of 4WDs over the years into suburbia. 90% of them
:> never see any off-road duty. so WTF do they really want them for?
:
:Practicality would be my guess. Compared to a regular sedan they're *way*
:more useful as far as a family vehicle goes. Especially if you have young
:kids in special seats.
Yep, I can see that aspect of it. I'd just like to see this demand met
without the need to buy a 4WD, as such.
:> As for all the housewives, you see many who have no real natural
:> instinct or feel for that size of vehicle on the road, as evidenced in
:> car parks and outside schools, as you mention.
:
:You do, but then around my way school drop off and pick up times are bedlam
:regardless of the types of vehicles involved.
True.
:> Often you see men and women alike trying to use 4WDs as some form of
:> weapon, or intimidation on the roads... doesn't work on somebody like
:> me, who had to learn to drive whilst sharing the road with road trains.
:
:Yeah, there's always the "I'm bigger than you" factor, which is a game most
:truck drivers like to play. Of course, you can always try to induce your
:menacing 4wd owner into a game of "catch me you fucking wanker" and see if
:you can get them to stick the thing on it's lid at the first corner :)
Indeed :)
Jeßus
dwal...@internode.on.net said...
:
It wouldnt necessarily change the size of the vehicles, but people
movers tend to be a lot easier to park than the full size - or should I
say - real 4WDs. And they also tend not to be lugging around an
superfluous drive line.
Noddy
> Yep, I can see that aspect of it. I'd just like to see this demand met
> without the need to buy a 4WD, as such.
Which is pretty much the reason why we bought the Territory.
It has all the practical benefits of a large 4wd without being a "truck".
The trouble is the quality of the vehicle is so bad we would have been far
better off buying a Land Cruiser and putting up with driving a truck.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
> It wouldnt necessarily change the size of the vehicles, but people
> movers tend to be a lot easier to park than the full size - or should I
> say - real 4WDs. And they also tend not to be lugging around an
> superfluous drive line.
They have other problems though.
A lot of them are just as bad to drive in terms of driving dynamics, they're
fairly under-powered and suffer an enormous hit in performance when they're
loaded (and far greater than most 4wd's), and they tend to be a huge wind
sail. Cross winds knock the crap out of them where 4wd's don't seem to be as
bothered. Another issue with people movers is that most people I know who
own 4wd's for "family reasons" usually tow something *sometime*, whether it
be a simple 6x4 to the local tip or a full on van on holidays, and in that
role most people movers are particularly hopeless.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
D Walford
All of the above plus they can also have odd mechanical layouts making
them difficult (therefore more expensive) to service.
Tarago has its engine laid flat under the floor and IMO they are pricks
to work on.
Daryl
Noddy
> All of the above plus they can also have odd mechanical layouts making
> them difficult (therefore more expensive) to service.
> Tarago has its engine laid flat under the floor and IMO they are pricks to
> work on.
Tarago's have never impressed me, but then some people swear by them.
About the only people mover I've driven that I thought was half decent was a
Honda Odyssey, but even that wasn't brilliant. It was okay, but I'd never
want to own one.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
D Walford
> Noddy wrote:
>
>> "D Walford" <dwal...@internode.on.net> wrote in message
>> news:009e716f$0$26900$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>>
>>> All of the above plus they can also have odd mechanical layouts making
>>> them difficult (therefore more expensive) to service.
>>> Tarago has its engine laid flat under the floor and IMO they are pricks to
>>> work on.
>> Tarago's have never impressed me, but then some people swear by them.
>
> the drive-by-wire bullshit though, and it's fucken *dangerous*.
>
I hear people make negative comments about drive by wire throttles but
I've never experienced any such problems.
Both our current vehicles(09 Hilux and 06 Impreza) and all the trucks
I've driven over the last couple of years have had it and I've not
noticed one problem so what's the issue?
The throttle on the new Isuzu 900 truck I've been driving recently lags
sometimes but I blame the transmission, the "automated manual
transmission" is very slow to work out what gear it needs to be in and
its especially bad if you almost stop then want to accelerate, the delay
waiting for it for make up its mind which gear to select could be
considered dangerous but much less so when you are aware of the problem,
its best to stop completely and allow it time to sort itself out.
Daryl
Noddy
> I hear people make negative comments about drive by wire throttles but
> I've never experienced any such problems.
> Both our current vehicles(09 Hilux and 06 Impreza) and all the trucks I've
> driven over the last couple of years have had it and I've not noticed one
> problem so what's the issue?
The issue is that some implement it a whole lot better than others.
On some cars it's barely noticable (although I'm yet to drive a vehicle
where you couldn't tell the throttle was controlled by an electric motor)
whereas on other cars the lag is appallingly bad to the point of being
downright dangerous.
> The throttle on the new Isuzu 900 truck I've been driving recently lags
> sometimes but I blame the transmission, the "automated manual
> transmission" is very slow to work out what gear it needs to be in and its
> especially bad if you almost stop then want to accelerate, the delay
> waiting for it for make up its mind which gear to select could be
> considered dangerous but much less so when you are aware of the problem,
> its best to stop completely and allow it time to sort itself out.
That sounds like fun... NOT.
I'm quite convinced that the more manufacturers try to dumb down vehicles
the less fun they become to drive.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
"Andy" <no@invalid> wrote in message
news:hftou6-8rg.ln1@unique_and_different_just_like_everyone_else.westnet.com.au...
> Have you ever driven a new Tarago?
>
> 'The issue' is the significant and very noticeable delay between
> pressing the accelerator and anything happening.
>
> It's probably only about a second, but it feels like about 5 seconds
> when you're trying to navigate through a busy intersection.
Sounds like the Territory.
It's particularly unnerving when you go to belt through a busy intersection
and stab the pedal only to find nothing happens, by which time you doubt and
start to lift off and all of a sudden the thing lurches forward. It then
slows after you've lifted and you nail it again because you're now half way
onto the road and need to get the fuck outa there pronto and the whole cycle
starts all over again.
It's a dead set pain in the arse and undoubtably the *worst* feature of
modern cars. Some are obviously better than others but the onces that are
bad are horrendous. With the Territory you're getting to the point of
needing to allow double the time you'd normally take, and in some cases that
makes things next to impossible.
> Another classic example of stupid manufacturers 'improving' something
> that had limited problems (aside from the odd breakage and
> misadjustment) in the first place.
Yep.
> $2 bike cable style device attached to a throttle will do me, thanks.
Yeah, me too. The manufacturers can belt all this drive by wire shit up
their clackers sideways as far as I'm concerned.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
D Walford
> D Walford wrote:
>
>> Andy wrote:
>>> Noddy wrote:
>
>>>> Tarago's have never impressed me, but then some people swear by them.
>>> Not a bad concept, and reasonably well executed. The recent ones have
>>> the drive-by-wire bullshit though, and it's fucken *dangerous*.
>>>
>> I hear people make negative comments about drive by wire throttles but
>> I've never experienced any such problems.
>> Both our current vehicles(09 Hilux and 06 Impreza) and all the trucks
>> I've driven over the last couple of years have had it and I've not
>> noticed one problem so what's the issue?
>
>
No thanks.
> 'The issue' is the significant and very noticeable delay between
> pressing the accelerator and anything happening.
>
> It's probably only about a second, but it feels like about 5 seconds
> when you're trying to navigate through a busy intersection.
Not nice.
>
>> The throttle on the new Isuzu 900 truck I've been driving recently lags
>> sometimes but I blame the transmission, the "automated manual
>> transmission" is very slow to work out what gear it needs to be in and
>> its especially bad if you almost stop then want to accelerate, the delay
>> waiting for it for make up its mind which gear to select could be
>> considered dangerous but much less so when you are aware of the problem,
>> its best to stop completely and allow it time to sort itself out.
>
> Jesus. Yeah, that sounds like a *great* solution without any 'issues'
> :-)
>
> Another classic example of stupid manufacturers 'improving' something
> that had limited problems (aside from the odd breakage and
> misadjustment) in the first place.
>
> $2 bike cable style device attached to a throttle will do me, thanks.
>
I doubt it would solve the issue with the trans, more and more trucks
are being made with some form of auto trans and they are very popular
with rental companies (the truck I've been driving is from Budget) as
they believe and I tend to agree that they survive being treated roughly
better than a manual.
I've never experienced any throttle delay with the Hilux, the Impreza or
the DAF prime movers I used to drive so they are not all bad but all of
those have manual transmissions so I wonder if the problem is more
noticeable with an auto?
Daryl
jonz
hmmmm, another good reason for driving a `73 fj40 methinks..........
>
> --
> Regards,
> Noddy.
>
>
--
jonz
"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea - massive,
difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind
- boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." - Gene
Spafford,1992
Noddy
"Andy" <no@invalid> wrote in message
> And I can't help wondering what's going to happen as these cars get
> older, and the drive-by-wire units start gettings there's 1s and 0s
> confused...
Won't that be fun? :)
> It doesn't even make sense from a cost point of view - they'd have to be
> more expensive than a regular throttle cable.
If it was just to operate the throttle for driving the car then yeah you'd
be right, but it isn't. It makes it *far* easier (and ultimately cheaper)
for manufacturers to incorporate things like cruise control, idle step ups
for things like air conditioning and emissions, and anything else where the
engine rpm needs to be changed to meet a given circumstance.
I mean, it actually makes sense when you look at it from that point of view,
but the implementation of it by some manufacturers is absolutely fucking
piss poor. I'm not kidding, but the throttle on the current Fords is so bad
that I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if it leads to someone being
killed.
> The worst case failure of a throttle cable is that it breaks. Even in
> that instance you can get yourself home by rigging up a hand operated
> throttle with /something/ (had to do this a couple of times myself, I
> usually used the choke cable).
Yeah, me too.
In fact I remember busting a throttle cable in an old Mk.I Escort years ago,
and because I wasn't more than a few miles from home rather than fuck with
it too much (and it was dark and I didn't have a torch) I just bumped the
throttle advance screw on the choke lever right in, so pulling the choke on
slightly dialed in enough rpm to drive the thing home.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
"jonz" <fj...@diesel.com> wrote in message
news:4b1a1a5e$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> hmmmm, another good reason for driving a `73 fj40 methinks..........
*Another* one? What were the others? :)
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
"Athol" <athol_S...@idl.net.au> wrote in message
news:12600068...@idlwebserver.idl.com.au...
> Well, once you have throttle by wire, cruise control is purely software,
> traction control and ESC are half done and brake assist, etc. are
> assisted by the guarantee that the computer can forcibly close the
> throttle if the driver doesn't take their foot off the pedal in an
> emergency...
>
> Of course, if the driver knew exactly what they were doing and were going
> to accelerate out of an emergency situation, they're completely and
> utterly fucked.
More good reasons why the shit should be banned....
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Bernd Felsche
>Andy <no@invalid> wrote:
>> It doesn't even make sense from a cost point of view - they'd have to be
>> more expensive than a regular throttle cable.
>Well, once you have throttle by wire, cruise control is purely software,
>traction control and ESC are half done and brake assist, etc. are
>assisted by the guarantee that the computer can forcibly close the
>throttle if the driver doesn't take their foot off the pedal in an
>emergency...
>Of course, if the driver knew exactly what they were doing and were
>going to accelerate out of an emergency situation, they're
>completely and utterly fucked.
I get this now in a 2005 Golf. (TDI)
Trying to promote oversteer while mashing the go pedal as well as the
brake doesn't work at all. The car senses the brake pedal and the go
pedal pressed at once so reduces the "worth" of the latter. The car
NOW needs stability control so that it can do it all by itself. The
driver no longer has control.
I'm not convinced that the people who design these algorithms are at
all intimately familiar with driving beyond the ragged edge of their
equation-space.
--
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ / ASCII ribbon campaign | The most dangerous ignorance is the
X against HTML mail | ignorance of the educated class.
/ \ and postings | -- Thomas Sowell
Atheist Chaplain
> Noddy wrote:
>
>>
>> "Andy" <no@invalid> wrote in message
>> news:hftou6-8rg.ln1@unique_and_different_just_like_everyone_else.westnet.com.au...
>>
>>> Have you ever driven a new Tarago?
>>>
>>> 'The issue' is the significant and very noticeable delay between
>>> pressing the accelerator and anything happening.
>>>
>>> It's probably only about a second, but it feels like about 5 seconds
>>> when you're trying to navigate through a busy intersection.
>>
>> Sounds like the Territory.
>>
>> It's particularly unnerving when you go to belt through a busy
>> intersection
>> and stab the pedal only to find nothing happens, by which time you doubt
>> and
>> start to lift off and all of a sudden the thing lurches forward. It then
>> slows after you've lifted and you nail it again because you're now half
>> way
>> onto the road and need to get the fuck outa there pronto and the whole
>> cycle
>> starts all over again.
>
>
>> It's a dead set pain in the arse and undoubtably the *worst* feature of
>> modern cars. Some are obviously better than others but the onces that are
>> bad are horrendous. With the Territory you're getting to the point of
>> needing to allow double the time you'd normally take, and in some cases
>> that
>> makes things next to impossible.
>>
>>> Another classic example of stupid manufacturers 'improving' something
>>> that had limited problems (aside from the odd breakage and
>>> misadjustment) in the first place.
>>
>> Yep.
>
> older, and the drive-by-wire units start gettings there's 1s and 0s
> confused...
>
> more expensive than a regular throttle cable.
>
> that instance you can get yourself home by rigging up a hand operated
> throttle with /something/ (had to do this a couple of times myself, I
> usually used the choke cable).
>
>>
>> Yeah, me too. The manufacturers can belt all this drive by wire shit up
>> their clackers sideways as far as I'm concerned.
>
>
> --
> Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
> XPN 1.2.6 <-> Leafnode 1.11.7.rc1 | Kernel 2.6.30.9-generic
>
you also have to factor in that most manufacturers use drive by wire so help
bring the emissions down as the computer controls how wide and when the
throttle is opened. also a big thing in their fuel economy claims.
--
[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of
Scientology International]
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your
Christ." Gandhi
Jeßus
m...@home.com said...
:
:"jonz" <fj...@diesel.com> wrote in message
:
:> hmmmm, another good reason for driving a `73 fj40 methinks..........
:
:*Another* one? What were the others? :)
The best anti-theft system - nobody would want to steal it.
hippo
There should be a switch on the shifter base. Try switching it from "Lady
Bowler" to "Professional Driver With More Than Half A Clue" :)
--
Posted at www.usenet.com.au
hippo
Thanks Noddy. Now I know why all those bloody Turbo Terris come thundering
through roundabouts down here at the posted speed limit, regardless of
other traffic. They're obviously scared to slow down! Cheers
--
Posted at www.usenet.com.au
hippo
>
> Athol <athol_S...@idl.net.au> wrote:
> >Andy <no@invalid> wrote:
>
> >> It doesn't even make sense from a cost point of view - they'd have to be
> >> more expensive than a regular throttle cable.
>
> >Well, once you have throttle by wire, cruise control is purely software,
> >traction control and ESC are half done and brake assist, etc. are
> >assisted by the guarantee that the computer can forcibly close the
> >throttle if the driver doesn't take their foot off the pedal in an
> >emergency...
>
> >Of course, if the driver knew exactly what they were doing and were
> >going to accelerate out of an emergency situation, they're
> >completely and utterly fucked.
>
> I get this now in a 2005 Golf. (TDI)
>
> Trying to promote oversteer while mashing the go pedal as well as the
> brake doesn't work at all. The car senses the brake pedal and the go
> pedal pressed at once so reduces the "worth" of the latter. The car
> NOW needs stability control so that it can do it all by itself. The
> driver no longer has control.
>
> I'm not convinced that the people who design these algorithms are at
> all intimately familiar with driving beyond the ragged edge of their
> equation-space.
..or possibly even with driving, full stop?
--
Posted at www.usenet.com.au
D Walford
still very slow to engage a gear.
Most of the trucks I drive these days are rentals and its obvious they
get abused so its no wonder the rental companies go for auto's which
seem to handle abuse better than manuals.
Daryl
hippo
Actually, rental rather than abuse may be part of the problem. Electronic
autos progressively adapt to the driving style of an individual driver,
which is probably why the transmission in our Outback was more
unpredictable than single driver ones seem to be. it had two drivers on a
roughly 60/40 ratio for over 200,000Km. So if TWO drivers can confuse the
computer that much, who knows what 50 a month over a year or two might
achieve? IIRC, most of the Scania transmission problems were with fleet
vehicles and buses rather than owner/driver units. Food for thought.
--
Posted at www.usenet.com.au