Mazda Familia GTR.
L.A.W.
Interested to hear peoples opinions about the hi-spec jap version of our
late model TX3's. As we all know, the late model 1.8turbo TX3's were made
by Mazda in Japan, and the same engine is used in Mazdas 323 hatch named the
Familia. This was released in a 4WD GTX (134kW) and 4WD GTR (~155kW), as
opposed to our 117kW in the TX3.
This extra power comes courtesy a revised head with bigger valves, higher
compression, larger turbo, redesigned exhaust manifold and bigger cooler.
The package is topped off with strengthened gearbox, higher pressure clutch,
more powerful brakes, bigger wheels, stronger driveline with viscious LSD's,
and revised suspension. I've read a lot on various internet sites about how
the GTR was a bigger step up from the base model, than say Nissan with their
GTiR, and Mitsy with their turbo Lancer.
So does anyone have any opinions about the car? Obviously it's in a similar
league to the GTiR and the turbo Lancers, but is it a better car than these
two? Not just in outright acceleration, but as an overall package, taking
into account the cost of the car ($20-$23k from an importer)?
Thanks in advance.
Glenn Ryan
news:96522305...@fly.adm.netlink.net.au...
> Hi all,
>
> Interested to hear peoples opinions about the hi-spec jap version of our
> late model TX3's. As we all know, the late model 1.8turbo TX3's were made
> by Mazda in Japan, and the same engine is used in Mazdas 323 hatch named
the
> Familia. This was released in a 4WD GTX (134kW) and 4WD GTR (~155kW), as
> opposed to our 117kW in the TX3.
>
> This extra power comes courtesy a revised head with bigger valves, higher
> compression, larger turbo, redesigned exhaust manifold and bigger cooler.
> The package is topped off with strengthened gearbox, higher pressure
clutch,
> more powerful brakes, bigger wheels, stronger driveline with viscious
LSD's,
> and revised suspension.
Up till now is just the Used Car review in Zoom isn't it? I can't find the
issue, maybe it was Autospeed, but yeh, they are a good car.
> I've read a lot on various internet sites about how
> the GTR was a bigger step up from the base model, than say Nissan with
their
> GTiR, and Mitsy with their turbo Lancer.
Thats a load of rubbish. Maybe a base model Pulsar is pleasant to drive, but
you instantly know the GTiR is an awesome weapon as soon as you turn the
key, let alone dump the clutch or turn a corner. A Pulsar GSR is a much more
road refined vehicle, without the racing style induction sounds and almost
instant boost. But it is an amazing difference in every aspect to a base
model Lancer (The base model had an AM only radio!) except fuel economy on
the open road where it is only marginally higher!
>
> So does anyone have any opinions about the car? Obviously it's in a
similar
> league to the GTiR and the turbo Lancers, but is it a better car than
these
> two? Not just in outright acceleration, but as an overall package, taking
> into account the cost of the car ($20-$23k from an importer)?
>
> Thanks in advance.
Compared to a Pulsar GTiR, Not even close!! Same with the Lancer GSR
although the GTiR will whoop the GSR, EVOs are more the GTiRs prey.
Go to http://www.adelaidejap.com.au/ for prices An '89 model (185hp version
GTX) is selling for $13,500 complied. There is a '95 SOHC turbo sedan
(modified doing 14.3 1/4 mile) for $14,500. (Maybe the cheapest '95 model
import available complied!!)
AdelaideJap import alot, or at least used to specilise in the Mazda 323
imports. I don't they sell well though, as the same hatch has been for sale
for quite some time. My advice, if you want serious AWD turbo handling and
power, get a Liberty RS or a GTiR. Lancer GSRs are getting old and with that
comes Mitsubishis reliability. (Not brag worthy to say the least!! Parts are
cheap though from importers as there isn't much demand but heaps of supply)
If you can afford a $23k Mazda 323, save the other $2k to get a GTiR, it's
damn worth it. You'll be smoking standard WRXs, and you won't have the
gearbox problems of an abused WRX or RS. Liberty RS - There are people
everywhere giving them rapts. They are a great car. If your considering the
323 then I presume a stock looking sleeper is appealing. Except for a small
hole in the boonet (water/air intercooler) the Liberty looks like a dull
(although nicely styled) family sedan or wagon - But boy do they go, and
arguably a much faster car than the Lancer GSR.
Julian or Forg (both had Liberty RSs) confidently say that the RS on the
limit is easier to drive, and almost quicker, than a standard Skyline GTR.
And down the straight there isn't much in it between a moded Liberty RS
(<$25k) and a stock R32 GTR (>$45k).
Yeah, the 323 is a good car, but the Lancer and Liberty have panel and parts
interchangibility. The Pulsar has many parts and the front half is basically
an N13 Oz model Pulsar, albeit with a Chinese swimming dose of steroids!!
However, the 323 won't have parts available in Oz, and as not many are
imported, and they are likely to be rubbish in Japan soon (Not bagging the
car, it's just that it's a cheap disposable car by Japanese standards) -
thus making parts hard.
Good car, but a GSR, RS or GTiR would be ALOT better. But then it's not much
more to a WRX if that's your taste. Maybe a 200sx for around $20-23k is a
worthy car to consider. 2L turbo RWD! Also consider the boxy and ugly VR4 at
an overpriced high tens.
Matt Cremer
..
> Interested to hear peoples opinions about
> the hi-spec jap version of our late model
> TX3's.
> Not just in outright acceleration, but as
> an overall package, taking into account
> the cost of the car ($20-$23k from an
> importer)?
I was about to wax lyrical about how they had to be a good thing
considering how impressed I was with the TX3, but I nearly spit
my weeties at the screen when I read the price.
My answer would be "no". Considering it's the same thing, I'd
want the 323 to be very near the price of the TX3 which has
better parts support, more potential next owners have more
confidence in it, etc. I also doubt it'd cost $10k to get the
same power out of an AWD TX3.
-Forg (Elsewhere)
-----------------------------------------------------------
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
Matt Cremer
..
> Julian or Forg (both had Liberty RSs)
> confidently say that the RS on the limit
> is easier to drive, and almost quicker,
> than a standard Skyline GTR.
Oi! I definitely did _not_ say that! I've never even driven a
GT-R. I did say that the mildly modded GT-R only pulled about
two-three car lengths on me down Oran Park's main straight (my
car was stock), however.
I agree with you other comments though; well, maybe except
calling the VR4 "boxy", the RS was actually more squared-off -
the VR4's just a more "upright" car.
DBTito
> Compared to a Pulsar GTiR, Not even close!! Same with the Lancer GSR
> although the GTiR will whoop the GSR, EVOs are more the GTiRs prey.
A few months back I visited a car dealer near work. The car dealer
told me that the Familia GTR ran the 0-100 faster than that Pulsar
GTiR did. I didn't believe him for a second tho. I'm still in the market
looking for a GTiR. Just waiting to turn 21...Yes, I know insurance will
leave my pocket empty...but the GTiR is probably worth it...unless
someone can recommend another pocket rocket.
--
Dandin Bryan Tito - AMC Enterprises PTY LTD
3rd year Soft Eng - Programmer (C/C++/Java)
(ti...@cs.rmit.edu.au) - (d...@amc.com.au)
Andrew
Firstly the Aussie TX3 is the same as the GTX however the reason
for lower power is the computer was deliberately detuned to give 117kw
instead of 134. You can plug a Jap TX3 (which has the full 134kw) or
GTX computer in and the Aussie one will instantly have 134kw and still
run on 91 octane unleaded. This is due to special design features of the
engine that allow it to do so.
The GTR does have a modified engine, clutch,brakes ect but the actual 4WD
system is identical.
Compared to the GTiR the GTR is definately the better package although the
GTiR has more power. As far as mitsu's are concerned it compares to a
EVO1 or 2.
As far as the comparison of the GTiR vs the GTR goes the GTR is just so
much more refined in every area. Parts for both cars are roughly similar
with the front ends been the same as local sedans (BG 323 and N14 pulsar)
but the GTR has the advantage of harder to get bits being available from
ford from the TX3 4WD.
I know two friends - one has a GTiR and the other has a GTR. They have
both had a lot of driving in each others cars so know the differences pretty
well.
The GTR owner said that standard his car feels more powerful than the GTR
but the GTR has the best handling that he has ever experienced in a stock
car.
He also said the brakes on the GTR are fantastic and the whole engine set-up
is
"race ready" with a huge BB turbo, front mount i/c, big valves (sodum filled
exhaust ect) so that all it really needed to go way quicker was the boost
wound
up. He said he had spent heaps of money on the GTiR suspension and has got
it pretty close to the GTR now however. The GTR was designed to have
heaps of midrange power - it produces its max torque at 4500rpm while
the GTiR does it at 4800rpm)
As far as the 4WD system goes the GTR uses a simple 50:50 split with viscus
center. This is the same setup as the VR4 sold here (but the VR4 also had
4WS and the VR4 EVO (EVO0) had rear LSD ect)
There was a GTi-RB which was the rally homolgation special. It had a rear
LSD but also came with steel wheels and standard pulsar interior as it was a
low volume (500) stripped down competition car.
Mazda had the GTAe which was a striped down GTR with no air-con or anything
like that but the mechanicals were the same as the road version.
Compared to the GTR it has 43:57 (F/R) unequal spit that can go as much as
60:40
(F/R) and also has a rear LSD (the TX3/GTX also had this exact setup).
The Brakes on the GT-R are massive and the car comes with special enkei
15inch
alloys. The GTiR came with 14inch pulsar alloys and more standardish (but
still good)
brakes.
The suspension on the GTR was developed my Mazda's motorsport division and
was
that good that most teams using the GTR left the suspension standard. It
uses mazda's
well proven TTL (trapezoildal twin link) IRS that is standard even today on
all 323.
The GTiR uses a paralell link IRS which for some reason has been replaced by
a
compact beam axle in later pulsars ???
The Turbo on the GTiR is a garret tb2804 which is a T3/T25 hybrid and uses
a sleve bearing. Compare this to the massive IHI RHF6CB which is a
ball bearing (superior) and uses a 62mm compressor and turbine wheel
compared to 60mm compressor/53mm turbine of the garret.
Then theres the i/c - frontmount on the GTR (good) vs top mount (not so
good).
Moving to the interior you get leather wheel's in both (good) but the GTR
also has
leather (well leather and suede to be precise) seats while the GTiR has
cloth ones
and is a little more drab and downmarket.
The GTiR has a built in umbrella holder which is rather nifty. Also the GTR
is only
avilable in 3 colours (red,white,grey) while the GTiR also has perl white.
GTiR's are also going to be a little easier to get as there was much more
produced
(4500) than were GTR's (2200).
Personaly I think they are both great cars and with some work you can get
either
to behave similar to the other one. On the other hand you have to be
prepared
for import woes such as insurance, parts ect.
I would much rather just buy a proper aussie delivered car that has proper
history
and support. Do a few mods to the "aussie" ones (eg TX3/GSR/WRX/RS/GT4)
and you can have a car that's pretty good and not *that* much different to
either
of the above cars but you won't have all the hassles. One of the editors of
hot4's
(or a mag like it) decided to get a GTiR.. Later he sold it at a big loss
and just got
a WRX as he was sick of the hassles.
If you live in NZ its a different story but I wont go into into that as its
too
depressing considering I don't live there.
Also you will find there is a lot of "badge emotions" when it comes to some
of these cars. Just like the classic holden vs ford thing where you will
have
one side proclaiming that the commodore SS is the best car on earth and
the XR8 is the worst (when in fact both cars are very much equal with one
being
better in one area and another one a bit better in another).
Hope this helps
Andrew
"L.A.W." <web...@netlink.net.au> wrote in message
news:96522305...@fly.adm.netlink.net.au...
> Hi all,
>
> Interested to hear peoples opinions about the hi-spec jap version of our
> late model TX3's. As we all know, the late model 1.8turbo TX3's were made
> by Mazda in Japan, and the same engine is used in Mazdas 323 hatch named
the
> Familia. This was released in a 4WD GTX (134kW) and 4WD GTR (~155kW), as
> opposed to our 117kW in the TX3.
>
> This extra power comes courtesy a revised head with bigger valves, higher
> compression, larger turbo, redesigned exhaust manifold and bigger cooler.
> The package is topped off with strengthened gearbox, higher pressure
clutch,
> more powerful brakes, bigger wheels, stronger driveline with viscious
LSD's,
> and revised suspension. I've read a lot on various internet sites about
how
> the GTR was a bigger step up from the base model, than say Nissan with
their
> GTiR, and Mitsy with their turbo Lancer.
>
> So does anyone have any opinions about the car? Obviously it's in a
similar
> league to the GTiR and the turbo Lancers, but is it a better car than
these
> two? Not just in outright acceleration, but as an overall package, taking
> into account the cost of the car ($20-$23k from an importer)?
>
> Thanks in advance.
Denver Parker
> What you have been told is mostly correct but not totally.
> Firstly the Aussie TX3 is the same as the GTX however the reason
> for lower power is the computer was deliberately detuned to give 117kw
> instead of 134. You can plug a Jap TX3 (which has the full 134kw) or
> GTX computer in and the Aussie one will instantly have 134kw and still
> run on 91 octane unleaded. This is due to special design features of the
> engine that allow it to do so.
> The GTR does have a modified engine, clutch,brakes ect but the actual 4WD
> system is identical.
mostly correct, the GTR gearbox and drive train is signifigantly stronger than the gtx/tx3 setup, having shot penned internals and much stronger components than the gtx
boxes had to offer the dias was also setup as a 47 front 53 % rear in all the kh/kh GTX / GTR models unlike the early ke 4wdlasers and 323's of the same shape that had a
50/50 splits
Michael
I'd do some reserch and if the back 1/2 is the same, I'd buy a 1/2 cut from
an importer and transplant the important bits into a local shell. It gets
around most ADR & rego problems. (If the engine looks the same externally,
I'd shut up about it and just change the engine number at VicRoads)
Michael
Andrew
> Andrew <0...@mindless.com> wrote:
> > What you have been told is mostly correct but not totally.
>
> > Firstly the Aussie TX3 is the same as the GTX however the reason
> > for lower power is the computer was deliberately detuned to give 117kw
> > instead of 134. You can plug a Jap TX3 (which has the full 134kw) or
> > GTX computer in and the Aussie one will instantly have 134kw and still
> > run on 91 octane unleaded. This is due to special design features of the
> > engine that allow it to do so.
>
> > The GTR does have a modified engine, clutch,brakes ect but the actual 4WD
> > system is identical.
>
> mostly correct, the GTR gearbox and drive train is signifigantly stronger than the gtx/tx3 setup, having shot penned internals and much stronger components than the gtx
> boxes had to offer the dias was also setup as a 47 front 53 % rear in all the kh/kh GTX / GTR models unlike the early ke 4wdlasers and 323's of the same shape that had a
> 50/50 splits
You are correct that the *gearbox* is stronger having shot peened 2nd,3rd and 4th
and the front hypoid. The rest of the 4WD system is the same as the 1.8 TX3/GTX
on which the GTR is based and is 43/57 split. Only the older 1.6 generation cars
86-89 in which there was no GTR version had the 50:50 open center with in cabin
manualy operated difflock.
Andrew
I know someone who did this with his TX3 (put a GTR engine in). He did it
the hard way though by just geting an engine with no loom, ecu or anything.
Geting a frontcut would be ideal but it would be a hell of a lot of work
transfering everything and you would really need the front & rear cuts
to do a proper job.
For much less money you can get the standard turbo high flowed
and the ecu chipped. Suspension can be upgraded with the whiteline kit
and brakes upgraded with DBA sport slotted & crossdrilled front rotors,
high quality pads and high quality fluid.
If your really keen you can get forged pistons and shot peened rod's
and have a bit of a port and polish done on the heads.
Andrew
Glenn Ryan
it looks nice, although some say bland, and you can take a new date out or
ya grandma without confessing your a car nut, much like a Volvo I guess!!
:-)
Ok, but Julain did. He mentioned how he went down his favourite road in the
R32 and realised that the RS wouldn't have been far behind as it handled the
corners 'easier' than the tailhappy (on the limit) GTR. I guess it's just a
case of AWD cars with a front bias being 'better' cars to drive on the
limit, much like the debate over time about the TX3 being the best ever AWD
car, which it is not!!!
Matt Cremer <matthew.cre...@aspect.com.au.invalid> wrote in message
news:3c8a62b8...@usw-ex0101-008.remarq.com...
Glenn Ryan
an the standard exhaust is VERY restrictive.
My uncle had a GTiR, and was told by a guy in Sydney (with dyno sheets to
prove) that just a 3" exhaust produce some 30hp on standard boost!!
DBTito <ti...@yallara.cs.rmit.edu.au> wrote in message
news:3988...@mercury.its.rmit.edu.au...
Glenn Ryan
news:3988d605$0$11164$7f31...@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au...
> What you have been told is mostly correct but not totally.
>
> Firstly the Aussie TX3 is the same as the GTX however the reason
> for lower power is the computer was deliberately detuned to give 117kw
> instead of 134. You can plug a Jap TX3 (which has the full 134kw) or
> GTX computer in and the Aussie one will instantly have 134kw and still
> run on 91 octane unleaded. This is due to special design features of the
> engine that allow it to do so.
>
> The GTR does have a modified engine, clutch,brakes ect but the actual 4WD
> system is identical.
>
> Compared to the GTiR the GTR is definately the better package although the
> GTiR has more power. As far as mitsu's are concerned it compares to a
> EVO1 or 2.
Ok, so a GTiR doesn't compare to an EVO 1 or 2 but the Mazda GTR does? Yeah,
I might agree, as the GTiR is more suited to being compared to an EVO 3 or
latter, as well and any non-STi WRX!!! GTR is definately NOT a better
package. Oh, on engine output, how much power do you think the Mazda would
handle safely? I'm sure the up-speced SR20DET motor in the GTiR (with
standard quad throttle bodies) would be far better, although I guess you
disagree. Maybe you should post a question, which is better, 1.8 Mazda or 2L
Nissan motors. I'm guessing there is FAR more respect for the SR20DET, so
much in Japan many 300ZX get transplanted with hot SR20s, and that from a
motor with 1000c extra displacement and an extra turbo. Shit, that SR20DET
still an ordinary motor though!!
BTW, I haven't seen any Mazda GTRs competing in rally racing, (Group N or
the like) why is that. GTiRs do, same with WRXs, Libertys, EVO, GSRs, etc.
>
> As far as the comparison of the GTiR vs the GTR goes the GTR is just so
> much more refined in every area. Parts for both cars are roughly similar
> with the front ends been the same as local sedans (BG 323 and N14 pulsar)
> but the GTR has the advantage of harder to get bits being available from
> ford from the TX3 4WD.
More refined, yeah maybe, but that's because the GTiR is one of those few
jap cars that had mechanical character. (You probably have to drive or be a
passenger to understand) That induction sound is awesome, and the steering
is the best jap steering I've felt in a long time, perfectly weighted.
Hello, the N15 Pulsar GTiR shares from the back end of the front doors
forward of an Oz spec Pulsar, and Nissan import parts are much easier to
obtain. No way does a Mazda GTR have more spare parts than a GTiR, PERIOD!!!
>
> I know two friends - one has a GTiR and the other has a GTR. They have
> both had a lot of driving in each others cars so know the differences
pretty
> well.
>
> The GTR owner said that standard his car feels more powerful than the GTR
> but the GTR has the best handling that he has ever experienced in a stock
> car.
Which GTR is meant to be a GTiR????
> He also said the brakes on the GTR are fantastic and the whole engine
set-up
> is
> "race ready" with a huge BB turbo, front mount i/c, big valves (sodum
filled
> exhaust ect) so that all it really needed to go way quicker was the boost
> wound
> up.
Well, he thinks that, good for him!!!! Ok, so the GTiR has all that except
for the big arse turbo. Why, it's cos it's got the midrange punch and still
more power. Put a bigger turbo on, and top the boost up to a safe 15psi and
the GTR is NO comparision. Maybe the GTR will take more boost cos of a big
turbo, but if I was looking for power I would say the GTiR will EASILY out
HP a GTR Mazda. No doubt!!
> He said he had spent heaps of money on the GTiR suspension and has got
> it pretty close to the GTR now however.
Personally, he sounds like a wanker, try getting car advice from people
other than friends, friends tend to be, how do we say it, BIASED!!!!
> The GTR was designed to have
> heaps of midrange power - it produces its max torque at 4500rpm while
> the GTiR does it at 4800rpm)
Hmmm, seems like the GTiR has more midrange power then!!!!
>
> As far as the 4WD system goes the GTR uses a simple 50:50 split with
viscus
> center. This is the same setup as the VR4 sold here (but the VR4 also had
> 4WS and the VR4 EVO (EVO0) had rear LSD ect)
Hmmmmm!!! WOW 50:50, but the TX3 was better with 47:50 (front:rear), blah,
blah, blah.
Seriously, who gives a shit, personally a front bias AWD is much better,
PARTICURLY in light cars!!! If you've read about GTRs, the most praised AWD
turbo ever, they say the handling is MUCH improved with more front bias. The
GTiR, like an EVO, RS, WRX, VR4, etc has a front bias, and I stand by my
claims that a GTiR handles better!!! (The GTR is smaller so on particular
tight, narrow roads, obviously a smaller car has an advantage.
Something with such a short wheelbase shouldn't have a tail happy nature,
thats BAD handling!!! Why don't all the rally cars have rear bias (THEY
DON'T as much as you refute it, they get sideways by the 'scandinavian
flick' and the handbrake (electronically operated rear diffs)) if it's sooo
much better??
>
> There was a GTi-RB which was the rally homolgation special. It had a rear
> LSD but also came with steel wheels and standard pulsar interior as it was
a
> low volume (500) stripped down competition car.
> Mazda had the GTAe which was a striped down GTR with no air-con or
anything
> like that but the mechanicals were the same as the road version.
Well whoopsy do, the GTiR was designed for rally but failed cos it had too
much front overhang, makes the GTiR a bad road car? No!
>
> Compared to the GTR it has 43:57 (F/R) unequal spit that can go as much as
> 60:40
> (F/R) and also has a rear LSD (the TX3/GTX also had this exact setup).
>
> The Brakes on the GT-R are massive and the car comes with special enkei
> 15inch
> alloys. The GTiR came with 14inch pulsar alloys and more standardish (but
> still good)
> brakes.
You don't seem to talk about tyre profiles here. GTiR are 50 series profile
(195/50 14) Whats wrong with that? I suppose it just means that 40 series
rubber will be alot cheaper. (15" rims are alot cheaper and more common than
16" or 17" wheels.) But really, if the Mazda has lower than 50 series
rubber, or 205 width I'd be very surprised!!!!
>
> The suspension on the GTR was developed my Mazda's motorsport division and
> was
> that good that most teams using the GTR left the suspension standard. It
> uses mazda's
> well proven TTL (trapezoildal twin link) IRS that is standard even today
on
> all 323.
> The GTiR uses a paralell link IRS which for some reason has been replaced
by
> a
> compact beam axle in later pulsars ???
Cost?? Weight?? I don't know, but any AWD model (if they where to give us
anther AWD turbo rocket) would not use a beam axle for obvious reasons.
Maybe the fact there isn't going to be a new SSS model affects that?
>
> The Turbo on the GTiR is a garret tb2804 which is a T3/T25 hybrid and uses
> a sleve bearing. Compare this to the massive IHI RHF6CB which is a
> ball bearing (superior) and uses a 62mm compressor and turbine wheel
> compared to 60mm compressor/53mm turbine of the garret.
Wow!!!!! Who gives a shit, the right turbo for one 2L 4 pot is different to
the right turbo for another 2L pot is driveability is a concern. Also adds
there is just so much more left in the GTiR and Nissan did the hard things
to make it quicker, not the easy things. More boost, bigger turbo.
> Then theres the i/c - frontmount on the GTR (good) vs top mount (not so
> good).
WRX, RS, GT4, etc, great road cars and the WRX is certainly praised. BTW,
the GTiR IC is much bigger than Subarus. (RS and GT4 Grp A rally is
water/air)
>
> Moving to the interior you get leather wheel's in both (good) but the GTR
> also has
> leather (well leather and suede to be precise) seats while the GTiR has
> cloth ones
> and is a little more drab and downmarket.
> The GTiR has a built in umbrella holder which is rather nifty. Also the
GTR
> is only
> avilable in 3 colours (red,white,grey) while the GTiR also has perl white.
Give ya that, but you don't buy a pocket rocket cos it's the best from
Europe in style and features?
> GTiR's are also going to be a little easier to get as there was much more
> produced
> (4500) than were GTR's (2200).
>
> Personaly I think they are both great cars and with some work you can get
> either
> to behave similar to the other one. On the other hand you have to be
> prepared
> for import woes such as insurance, parts ect.
>
> I would much rather just buy a proper aussie delivered car that has proper
> history
> and support. Do a few mods to the "aussie" ones (eg TX3/GSR/WRX/RS/GT4)
> and you can have a car that's pretty good and not *that* much different to
> either
> of the above cars but you won't have all the hassles. One of the editors
of
> hot4's
> (or a mag like it) decided to get a GTiR.. Later he sold it at a big loss
> and just got
> a WRX as he was sick of the hassles.
Oh yeah, and editors are such smart people!! (sarc.) Julain Edgar was great
at Zoom, since he left, the mag went downhill. Hey the editor of High
Performance Jap Imports owns a Toyota Starlet Turbo, does that mean they are
great cars cos he chose one, nope. It does the drag shootout with the
XLFiles car from zoom. Need I say much more. (They spend $30k to get a 15s
1/4 mile from a car running VERY highly tuned. Waste of time if it handles
as shit as an Excel) Could it be that this editor wanted the WRX image, or
that he was too stupid to find SR20DET mods? If that's the case he's a
wanker.
>
> If you live in NZ its a different story but I wont go into into that as
its
> too
> depressing considering I don't live there.
>
> Also you will find there is a lot of "badge emotions" when it comes to
some
> of these cars. Just like the classic holden vs ford thing where you will
> have
> one side proclaiming that the commodore SS is the best car on earth and
> the XR8 is the worst (when in fact both cars are very much equal with one
> being
> better in one area and another one a bit better in another).
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Andrew
I used to think Holden owners where the most biased, but Laser TX3 turbo
owners ARE! They are a good car, and the latter Mazda models are an
imporvement, particurly the limited run GTR, but the GTiR is in the class of
modern AWDs (WRX), whereas the GTR Famila is still in that early 90s hot
hatch with a difference stage that Ford/Mazda went through. My opinion!!!
Denver Parker
>> I'd do some reserch and if the back 1/2 is the same, I'd buy a 1/2 cut from
>> an importer and transplant the important bits into a local shell. It gets
>> around most ADR & rego problems. (If the engine looks the same externally,
>> I'd shut up about it and just change the engine number at VicRoads)
> I know someone who did this with his TX3 (put a GTR engine in). He did it
> the hard way though by just geting an engine with no loom, ecu or anything.
> Geting a frontcut would be ideal but it would be a hell of a lot of work
> transfering everything and you would really need the front & rear cuts
> to do a proper job.
Finding a front cut is the hard bit, trust me im trying to at the moment, i narrowly missed out on one thatd been sitting at a wrecker for a year that he sold for 2.2k,
motor, box, looms, suspension, rear diff, brakes, everything i needed.... I was none the less shatterd...
Ive spent the past 6 months trying to find an importer willing to find me one, its bah-loody hard...
Jasustech <spelling> have one, but the guy wants 7k for it, and that doesn't include the gearbox, he can cram that fair up his ass i figure demanding 7k for everything
and not including the box, he wanted 3k extra for that...
> For much less money you can get the standard turbo high flowed
> and the ecu chipped. Suspension can be upgraded with the whiteline kit
> and brakes upgraded with DBA sport slotted & crossdrilled front rotors,
> high quality pads and high quality fluid.
> If your really keen you can get forged pistons and shot peened rod's
> and have a bit of a port and polish done on the heads.
Drilled and slotted rotors are silly, slotted will be more than ample and much sfater than drilled rotors which have a tendancy to crack after a while and lots of high
temp extremes lick super hot then cooling off and repeat...
The whiteline kit is top value from what ive read and seen in peoples cars, the hi flo'd turbo is a good move, id prefer to stick something bigger one, like a ball
bearing t3/4 combo, t3 exaust wheel t4 compressor with an external waste gate and a big front mount...
the motors will handle 20 pound of boost even in GTX form but they need as ive found on my hi boost b6 motor a breather setup for the crank and rocker cover as they have
a habit of seeping boost past the pistons under high load... this will save you blowing the sump seals out...
an ecu upgrade is a fairly wise move, the standard ecu's can be played with and toyed around with to make them handle the extra boost using larger injectors and a rising
rate fuel regulator or extra injectors, one i saw ran the standard ecu slightly bigger injectors and a 5th injector squiting methonal into the system to cool the air and
add the extra charge...
As for brake fluid i discovered that an $8 bottle of brake fluid will do the same job as a $50 bottle if you doa brake bleed before any high speed continual use, like a
couple of days on the track...
its also cheaper...
cheers
denver
danielpenna
> owners ARE! They are a good car, and the latter Mazda models are an
> imporvement, particurly the limited run GTR, but the GTiR is in the class
of
> modern AWDs (WRX), whereas the GTR Famila is still in that early 90s hot
> hatch with a difference stage that Ford/Mazda went through. My opinion!!!
Cool...now that weve heard your opinion glenn..you can suffer mine. Oh and
jsut before I start I do own a TX3, so yes Im biased :)
Ive only just picked this thread up so I havent got the whole picture, so Im
sure someone will tell me if Im speaking crap. On the Note of the GTi-R: I
remember reading something about how the most of the wieght of the engine
sits slightly forward of the axle( as I see you state as well )...not the
best for handling from what I understand, creates a lot of understeer. Note
that I havent driven one so I cant comment, thats just one engineering
defiancy Ive heard about.
Oh and looking for a GTR front cut Denver, FAT CHANCE :)...I tried the same
thing but since theyve seem to start importing the whole car ( I saw at
least 4 in a past issue of unique cars) I think its going to be a hard
search seeing that most of them will be in good nick and worth more money as
a whole car. Good Luck anyway......BTW updated your site yet :) Oh and
Jaustech want a lot for that engine and box combo dont they...Theyve had it
there since the start of last year...guess they dont want to sell it.
And who said the comment BP turbos can run 20 PSI boost with the normal
rods.....any one who wants to comment on it Im sure I can send you a picture
of a bent rod which was about 22psi...( No it wasnt me who did that....Id
sue the bloke if he was worthwhile ). According to the factory manual the BP
non turbo runs the same rods as the turbo...yep Im sure theyre strong. 15
psi is about the limit...
Oh and you can all give me as much shit as you want...wont be reading these
things for another 6 weeks due to work commitments. :)
DBTito
The site above contains information on both the GTi-R and GT-R. I seem to
agree with Glenn though. I'd much prefer the Pulsar. I mean, c'mon the
SR20 is a proven performer.
The site is worth a look.
--
Dandin Bryan Tito - AMC Enterprises PTY LTD
3rd year Soft Eng - Programmer (AIX/ICL Platform | Symbol PDT's)
RMIT City/Bundoora - 3 Chesterville Rd. Cheltenham 3192
(ti...@cs.rmit.edu.au) - (d...@amc.com.au)
Andrew
> Andrew <0...@mindless.com> wrote:
> >> I'd do some reserch and if the back 1/2 is the same, I'd buy a 1/2 cut from
> >> an importer and transplant the important bits into a local shell. It gets
> >> around most ADR & rego problems. (If the engine looks the same externally,
> >> I'd shut up about it and just change the engine number at VicRoads)
>
> > I know someone who did this with his TX3 (put a GTR engine in). He did it
> > the hard way though by just geting an engine with no loom, ecu or anything.
>
> > Geting a frontcut would be ideal but it would be a hell of a lot of work
> > transfering everything and you would really need the front & rear cuts
> > to do a proper job.
>
> Finding a front cut is the hard bit, trust me im trying to at the moment, i narrowly missed out on one thatd been sitting at a wrecker for a year that he sold for 2.2k,
> motor, box, looms, suspension, rear diff, brakes, everything i needed.... I was none the less shatterd...
wow that would shit you..... Looks like someone got the deal of a lifetime!
> Ive spent the past 6 months trying to find an importer willing to find me one, its bah-loody hard...
> Jasustech <spelling> have one, but the guy wants 7k for it, and that doesn't include the gearbox, he can cram that fair up his ass i figure demanding 7k for everything
> and not including the box, he wanted 3k extra for that...
I don't know why he does't wake up and stop being a wanker.. Nobody is going to pay 10K including
G/box...
> > For much less money you can get the standard turbo high flowed
> > and the ecu chipped. Suspension can be upgraded with the whiteline kit
> > and brakes upgraded with DBA sport slotted & crossdrilled front rotors,
> > high quality pads and high quality fluid.
>
> > If your really keen you can get forged pistons and shot peened rod's
> > and have a bit of a port and polish done on the heads.
>
> Drilled and slotted rotors are silly, slotted will be more than ample and much sfater than drilled rotors which have a tendancy to crack after a while and lots of high
> temp extremes lick super hot then cooling off and repeat...
I would't call the silly but they do have drawbacks.. Have a look at the twin turbo AWD porsche 993 and you
will see drilled rotors - these brakes are phenomenal - not silly ;) .
Yes they can crack (they are about 4x as likley to) but there a lot to it and depends on how its done
and how the owner treats them. DBA specificaly state the drilled and slotted rotors are for street use
where they work very well reducing stopping distances. You just have to not stop the car when the rotors
are red hot as the pads/calipers will also be red hot and will keep the section of the disc that is under
them red hot while the rest of the disc rapidly cools which is a great recipie for cracking. Also the way
the holes are drilled make a big difference. If you drill disc's that were not designed to be drilled you
will almost certainly have problems but since the DBA were designed to be drilled and feature only
one hole per vain (on ventilated discs) and the holes are chamfured to reduce cracking further plus
they are not located too close to the edge of the rotors..
These can last a long time and work well on the street and also the occasional track assult provided
you let the rotors cool before stopping. Back to back testing has shown reduction in stopping
distances of 10% (just by swaping the rotors) which is worthwhile even if you have to replace
them every few years.
> The whiteline kit is top value from what ive read and seen in peoples cars, the hi flo'd turbo is a good move, id prefer to stick something bigger one, like a ball
> bearing t3/4 combo, t3 exaust wheel t4 compressor with an external waste gate and a big front mount...
I know someone who has done just that (except for the external wastegate) the thing goes very hard.
He had to get a unichip however (plus a rising rate and a extra fuel pump) because of boost cut ect.
> the motors will handle 20 pound of boost even in GTX form but they need as ive found on my hi boost b6 motor a breather setup for the crank and rocker cover as they have
> a habit of seeping boost past the pistons under high load... this will save you blowing the sump seals out...
The rods will bend with 20psi of boost. A freind has bent rod to prove it ;) .. lightweight forged pistons,
and shot peened, polished and crack tested rods (or aftermarket H beams if your keen) do the trick..
As for the breather I have seen a few cars with thoes - sounds very worthwhile.
> an ecu upgrade is a fairly wise move, the standard ecu's can be played with and toyed around with to make them handle the extra boost using larger injectors and a rising
> rate fuel regulator or extra injectors, one i saw ran the standard ecu slightly bigger injectors and a 5th injector squiting methonal into the system to cool the air and
> add the extra charge...
One fellow is making over 330hp from his GTX with standard ECU by using larger injectors (420cc RX7) and an
apexi AFC.
> As for brake fluid i discovered that an $8 bottle of brake fluid will do the same job as a $50 bottle if you doa brake bleed before any high speed continual use, like a
> couple of days on the track...
>
> its also cheaper...
Sounds resonable to me...
Cheers
Andrew
Denver Parker
> Oh and looking for a GTR front cut Denver, FAT CHANCE :)...I tried the same
> thing but since theyve seem to start importing the whole car ( I saw at
> least 4 in a past issue of unique cars) I think its going to be a hard
> search seeing that most of them will be in good nick and worth more money as
> a whole car. Good Luck anyway......BTW updated your site yet :) Oh and
> Jaustech want a lot for that engine and box combo dont they...Theyve had it
> there since the start of last year...guess they dont want to sell it.
They do exist somewhere, im probally going to hunt up some new zealand wreckers shortly as they seem to have an abundance of the cars over there... i can only hope...
as for the site, err um no, its fairly bare at the moment infact...
I am moving the server around and getting a friend who's a HTML designer to redo the whole thing for me shortly when i actually make the effort to move where its
hosted... im just to slack, which is also why the project hasn't really gone very far of late, it will be getting serious attention shortly, half of it is finding the
front cut tho...
as for jasustech i rang them about 3 months ago now and asked him if they had one in stock he had a complete car which he was going to pull to bits if i coughed up 7k,
but he wanted to keep the box, it was also an ex rally car so the bits will have been thrashed...
> And who said the comment BP turbos can run 20 PSI boost with the normal
> rods.....any one who wants to comment on it Im sure I can send you a picture
> of a bent rod which was about 22psi...( No it wasnt me who did that....Id
> sue the bloke if he was worthwhile ). According to the factory manual the BP
> non turbo runs the same rods as the turbo...yep Im sure theyre strong. 15
> psi is about the limit...
they should run 20 psi no worries the standard b6 will run 20 pound no worries and up to 25 for a while before you pop the head...
my second tx3 im in the process of selling <i got the rex hankering again afetr selling number 1 long story> runs 16-18 pound all the time, and its only popped the head
gasket once, it will lay out a 13.7 on the 1/4 but i haven't timed it since i bought it, it had a pile of issues and ran like crap when i got it, now everything is sorted
id expect a lower et than previously run...
so a BP _should_ run 20 pound, i have heard of people doing it before serious internal mods to the motors...
but again more boost less life...
cheers
denver
Denver Parker
>> Finding a front cut is the hard bit, trust me im trying to at the moment, i narrowly missed out on one thatd been sitting at a wrecker for a year that he sold for 2.2k,
>> motor, box, looms, suspension, rear diff, brakes, everything i needed.... I was none the less shatterd...
> wow that would shit you..... Looks like someone got the deal of a lifetime!
yeah, ive no idea who got it either...
>> Ive spent the past 6 months trying to find an importer willing to find me one, its bah-loody hard...
>> Jasustech <spelling> have one, but the guy wants 7k for it, and that doesn't include the gearbox, he can cram that fair up his ass i figure demanding 7k for everything
>> and not including the box, he wanted 3k extra for that...
> I don't know why he does't wake up and stop being a wanker.. Nobody is going to pay 10K including
> G/box...
not when you can score one for around 3k, they do exist, just hard to find..
>> Drilled and slotted rotors are silly, slotted will be more than ample and much sfater than drilled rotors which have a tendancy to crack after a while and lots of high
>> temp extremes lick super hot then cooling off and repeat...
> I would't call the silly but they do have drawbacks.. Have a look at the twin turbo AWD porsche 993 and you
> will see drilled rotors - these brakes are phenomenal - not silly ;) .
yeah but they use brembo goodies if memory serves me correctly, and brembo actually make the discs with the holes molded into them, then they get a finished edge, unlike
other discs where they mold the disc then drill them... theres a huge difference in the metal strength if your just cleaning up a preexisting hole...
> Yes they can crack (they are about 4x as likley to) but there a lot to it and depends on how its done
> and how the owner treats them. DBA specificaly state the drilled and slotted rotors are for street use
> where they work very well reducing stopping distances. You just have to not stop the car when the rotors
> are red hot as the pads/calipers will also be red hot and will keep the section of the disc that is under
> them red hot while the rest of the disc rapidly cools which is a great recipie for cracking. Also the way
> the holes are drilled make a big difference. If you drill disc's that were not designed to be drilled you
> will almost certainly have problems but since the DBA were designed to be drilled and feature only
> one hole per vain (on ventilated discs) and the holes are chamfured to reduce cracking further plus
> they are not located too close to the edge of the rotors..
> These can last a long time and work well on the street and also the occasional track assult provided
> you let the rotors cool before stopping. Back to back testing has shown reduction in stopping
> distances of 10% (just by swaping the rotors) which is worthwhile even if you have to replace
> them every few years.
they do work, but slotted rotors will have the same effect as a drilled rotor, the reason discs where drilled out was to get rid of the gas produced when the surfaces
contact under pressure and improve the grip, properly slotted rotors do the same thing just as effectively...
>> The whiteline kit is top value from what ive read and seen in peoples cars, the hi flo'd turbo is a good move, id prefer to stick something bigger one, like a ball
>> bearing t3/4 combo, t3 exaust wheel t4 compressor with an external waste gate and a big front mount...
> I know someone who has done just that (except for the external wastegate) the thing goes very hard.
> He had to get a unichip however (plus a rising rate and a extra fuel pump) because of boost cut ect.
well more fuel is a must in any upgrade, a guy i know had a rx7 turbo strapped to a b6 that would pmp out 25 pound running a haltec ECU, the thing when really hard and
would light up all 4 wheels when cornering hard...
>> the motors will handle 20 pound of boost even in GTX form but they need as ive found on my hi boost b6 motor a breather setup for the crank and rocker cover as they have
>> a habit of seeping boost past the pistons under high load... this will save you blowing the sump seals out...
> The rods will bend with 20psi of boost. A freind has bent rod to prove it ;) .. lightweight forged pistons,
> and shot peened, polished and crack tested rods (or aftermarket H beams if your keen) do the trick..
> As for the breather I have seen a few cars with thoes - sounds very worthwhile.
i run a breaher on mine, fixing the leaky head proved to cause other stuff to pop lower down so i had a breather tank with a 3 stage baffling system to seperate oil and
air made, for $180 it was a good investment...
cheers
denver
Glenn Ryan
news:398a5d12$0$6816$7f31...@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au...
> Ive only just picked this thread up so I havent got the whole picture, so
Im
> sure someone will tell me if Im speaking crap. On the Note of the GTi-R:
I
> remember reading something about how the most of the wieght of the engine
> sits slightly forward of the axle( as I see you state as well )...not the
> best for handling from what I understand, creates a lot of understeer.
Note
> that I havent driven one so I cant comment, thats just one engineering
> defiancy Ive heard about.
AWD makes up for the understeer people comment on, but in an AWD car, I
think understeer (to a certain degree) is much more preferable than
oversteer, particurly with a short wheelbase like the GTiR and GTR Famila.
> And who said the comment BP turbos can run 20 PSI boost with the normal
> rods.....any one who wants to comment on it Im sure I can send you a
picture
> of a bent rod which was about 22psi...( No it wasnt me who did that....Id
> sue the bloke if he was worthwhile ). According to the factory manual the
BP
> non turbo runs the same rods as the turbo...yep Im sure theyre strong. 15
> psi is about the limit...
20psi is alot for any standard motor!!! Most people will tell you that.