OT: Before you buy a Daikin airconditioner...
Sylvia Else
Since I'm not about to pay a $88 callout fee and $88 per hour for some
technician to replace a fuse, I took the cover off the external unit for
a look see.
Unfortunately, the fuses are intact, and there's nothing obviously wrong
with the the circuit board, other than that it appears completely dead.
It has an array of diagnostic diodes, or which one is meant to be
flashing continously. There's a chart on an internal plastic cover that
appears to be telling me that the board is faulty. My guess is that when
the technician arrives he's going to tell me it needs replacing.
Now, I've said that there's nothing obviously wrong with it. That's
perhaps overstating it. Here's a picture of part of it
http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/cbCrop.jpg
Note the obvious corrosion of the circuit tracks. The circuit board is
inside the unit's box, but is otherwise totally unprotected from the
elements and wildlife. Insects can crawl around the board, doing what
insects do, and evidently have. I removed a dead spider and some of its
web. There was also quite a lot of dirt before I blew it away.
Now, this air conditioner has worked without fault for eight years or
so, but it hasn't really been used that much - no more than a couple of
weeks per year maximum. The state of the board may or may not be the
cause of the failure, but surely a circuit board stuck outside should be
better protected than this.
So, before you buy a Daikin (or any other brand, I suppose) find out
whether the circuit board is just expected to fend for itself in the
outside world.
Sylvia.
TG'sFM
I always thought you to be more enviromentally aware than to own (and
occasionally use) an air conditioning unit - especially a Daikin
branded one.
Sylvia Else
I'm very evironmentally aware. In particular, I'm very aware when the
environment is too hot for me to sleep - this particular unit cools the
bedroom.
We didn't expressly choose Daikin - it was simply what Energy Australia
supplied when we asked them to install airconditioning.
Not that they actually installed it - they farmed it off to
subcontractors, and then tried to pretend it wasn't their problem when
the contractors didn't do the job properly (though I corrected their
perception of that by observing that I had not yet paid).
Sylvia.
TG'sFM
I thought you said it was broken?
Sylvia Else
It only cools the bedroom when it's turned on, as has always been the
case. It just happens to be impossible to turn on at the moment.
Sylvia.
TG'sFM
So if it is impossible to turn on at the moment, and it only cools
when it's turned on, then how can you say "This particular unit cools
the bedroom"? Do you know the difference between past and present
tense, Sylvia? Happy New Year, by the way.
ausmartin
- Try geting any parts for a panasonic split over 6 years -
enjoy .....
Other great brands are Fujitsu, Misubishi Heavy.
Yes and all the circuit boards are exposed - yes it's bad, real bad if
you live near the sea, it kills them real quick - all brands.
When you find out one that puts 'em sealed cans like other electronic
appliances let me know as an Ant nest is a right disaster.
If you go for any brand AVOID MULTI SPLITS as these are more complex
units and it takes only
1 untrained monkey to work on your outdoor unit
- after warranty, making your expensive total system worthless,
so always go with a number of single splits.
PS there's nothing wrong with installing refrigerated inverter a/c
along the coastal areas as they are very economical powerwise and do
remove humidity.
If your in a dry Central part of australia - then go evaporative.
Smart choice is were you live.
Enviromentally refigerant is recovered due to service or final
disposal the envirometal impact is minimal esp now that R410A is being
used, the dc powered compressors are even more efficeint and run
cooler
albeit the pressure is much higher. If replacing an exisiting R22 make
sure refigeration tech uses new gas piping is used of the proper
grade, plus this has the added benifit that no old oil from the old
R22 system will ever make it in to the new R410A as it's incompatible.
Evaporative also has waste water overflow - so feed to your water tank
for the garden.
Cheers
HeadRush
"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:495d8a3b$0$18714$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> My Daikin airconditioner failed to work when required last night.
>
> Since I'm not about to pay a $88 callout fee and $88 per hour for some
> technician to replace a fuse, I took the cover off the external unit for a
> look see.
>
> Unfortunately, the fuses are intact, and there's nothing obviously wrong
> with the the circuit board, other than that it appears completely dead. It
> has an array of diagnostic diodes, or which one is meant to be flashing
> continously. There's a chart on an internal plastic cover that appears to
> be telling me that the board is faulty. My guess is that when the
> technician arrives he's going to tell me it needs replacing.
>
> Now, I've said that there's nothing obviously wrong with it. That's
> perhaps overstating it. Here's a picture of part of it
>
> http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/cbCrop.jpg
>
> Note the obvious corrosion of the circuit tracks. The circuit board is
> inside the unit's box, but is otherwise totally unprotected from the
> elements and wildlife. Insects can crawl around the board, doing what
> insects do, and evidently have. I removed a dead spider and some of its
> web. There was also quite a lot of dirt before I blew it away.
If you can prove the board is faulty and it is a basic switching/controller
circuit, maybe YOU can replace it - assuming you have basic electronics
knowledge and taking all necessary electrical safety precautions of course.
Many years ago our VCR died due to a faulty power supply. The tech wanted
$100 labour and $250 for the power supply board replacement. I ended buying
the board as a spare part for $180 and replaced it myself. All that held it
in place was a couple of screws and some wiring connectors.
HR
Sylvia Else
Yes, I've certainly considered that option. I've repaired other things.
I also have the option of swapping the board with that of another
identical working unit that cools my study. My main concern is the
number of wires that are soldered directly to the board rather than
using connectors. This makes it potentially rather fragile, and also
raises the question of exactly what would arrive if I ordered a replacement.
If it looks like I can't get it repaired before the next warm spell (and
I imagine AirCon repair loads go up immediately after a hot day), I
may yet follow that course.
Sylvia.
Trevor Wilson
"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:495d8a3b$0$18714$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
**That is unacceptable, IMO. I DID check my air-con before purchase and am
satisfied with the care and attention WRT where and how the electronics are
placed. Either way, if that is the extent of the corrosion (and that is all
that is wrong), a competent tech should be able to rectify the problem
within two hours. I would expect that a board swap would be the most likely
scenario. No idea what that would cost.
FWIW, my air-cons are Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (inverter) models. Very
nicely built, IMO.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
John_H
>If replacing an exisiting R22 make
>sure refigeration tech uses new gas piping is used of the proper
>grade, plus this has the added benifit that no old oil from the old
>R22 system will ever make it in to the new R410A as it's incompatible.
Or, better still, charge it with R290 and stick with the existing
copper tubing (and oil)! :)
--
John H
GlennP
"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:495d8a3b$0$18714$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
As an air conditioner installer/repairer I can tell you that Daikins are the
best you can buy, Panasonics also as they are the same parts, buying price
at the time is the only recommendation we give in suggesting which one of
these to purchase, Mitsubishi electric are very close if not equal in
quality. If you're not happy with a Daikin you might as well not have any,
because you won't be happy with any others.
Tell me the model no. & error code & I'll tell you what it means is likely
wrong with it.
Dakin's have small micro processors in them & sometimes if you've had storms
& or power surges they go haywire, try this first & see if it works. Go out
to the switchboard/meter box & turn the A/C circuit breaker off for 10 mins,
then turn it back on, this will reset all the electronics. You may find it
works perfect again.
As per your photo of the circuit board, from what I can see, the marks on
the tracks are insignificant & are probably only on the surface. the actual
metal circuit tracks are protected from the weather under a factory
installed resin, that usually needs to be physically scratched or removed
with an acid before the tracks can be damaged.
A diode, resistor, IC chip or any electronic component on the board could
have failed due to a number of reasons & can't be blamed on poor quality
design or manufacture by Daikin (in this case).
Cheers
Glenn.
the_dawggie
Heh, heh done that to my friend's next door neighboor's system.
He likes it now.
Pre packaged R22 systems don't cut it.
--
Kip.
Sylvia Else
>
> As an air conditioner installer/repairer I can tell you that Daikins are the
> best you can buy, Panasonics also as they are the same parts, buying price
> at the time is the only recommendation we give in suggesting which one of
> these to purchase, Mitsubishi electric are very close if not equal in
> quality. If you're not happy with a Daikin you might as well not have any,
> because you won't be happy with any others.
>
> Tell me the model no. & error code & I'll tell you what it means is likely
> wrong with it.
It's U4 - which from my research just means that it can't communicate
with the outside unit.
I've had the thing completely powered off - all night - but no change.
>
> Dakin's have small micro processors in them & sometimes if you've had storms
> & or power surges they go haywire, try this first & see if it works. Go out
> to the switchboard/meter box & turn the A/C circuit breaker off for 10 mins,
> then turn it back on, this will reset all the electronics. You may find it
> works perfect again.
>
> As per your photo of the circuit board, from what I can see, the marks on
> the tracks are insignificant & are probably only on the surface. the actual
> metal circuit tracks are protected from the weather under a factory
> installed resin, that usually needs to be physically scratched or removed
> with an acid before the tracks can be damaged.
>
> A diode, resistor, IC chip or any electronic component on the board could
> have failed due to a number of reasons & can't be blamed on poor quality
> design or manufacture by Daikin (in this case).
It's an RV35HVEA.
It appears (not surprisingly) to use a split-mode power supply for the
low voltage electronics. I see about 340V DC on the output from the
bridge rectifier, but nothing on the 5V output regulator.
A schematic would be useful.
Sylvia.
Sylvia Else
> It's an RV35HVEA.
Should be RX35HVEA
Trevor Wilson
"GlennP" <pleas...@newsgroups.com.au> wrote in message
news:495db69b$0$26491$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
**Bullshit! Sylvia is bang-on. The corrosion goes right to the copper
traces. I'm impressed that Sylvia spotted it. The traces need to be metered
for faults. My standard repair (short of a board swap) would be to bypass
ALL small tracks with KynarT wire. In fact, it'd be worth scraping all the
tracks back to metal and then spraying the whole lot with a suitable
coating.
the actual
> metal circuit tracks are protected from the weather under a factory
> installed resin, that usually needs to be physically scratched or removed
> with an acid before the tracks can be damaged.
**Not if that photo is as accurate as it appears. The tracks appear to be
protected by standard resist coating. The very small tracks are certainly
showing severe problems. I'll bet that at least one is O/C.
>
> A diode, resistor, IC chip or any electronic component on the board could
> have failed due to a number of reasons & can't be blamed on poor quality
> design or manufacture by Daikin (in this case).
**Indeed. However, if the photography is as it appears, then someone is
responsible for poor isolation of the electronics from the elements.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
GlennP
"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
Yes U4 is a comms error between the indoor & outdoor units. It could be a
crook outdoor or indoor PCB, funnily enough it's quite often the indoor unit
where the problem is. It could also be a broken/loose connection on the wire
between the units, but usually not likely.
For an 8 year old unit (no longer made), parts (PCB) may be hard to come by
& will likely be second hand parts pulled out of another dead unit. New
parts (if you can still get them) will be expensive.
In situations like this, in the long run it's quite often cheaper with more
piece of mind, to write the old unit off & get a new one installed.
Even if you get this problem fixed, no installer/tech can guarantee you
won't fix this & get a new different problem next week. Once things start to
go, others follow closely behind.
Depending on your house insurance you may be able to claim for storm
damage/electrical power surges if you've had recent storms & or power
problems to pay for the new one (in part or full). Some insurance companies
will, others won't, some make you claim through Energy Australia (you're in
Belrose right?) for power surges damage.
Cheers
Glenn.
^Tems^
This shouldn't be a problem should it?
http://www.wikihow.com/Practice-Nudity-in-Your-Family
Step 3 says nudity in the house saves on cooling bills
Sylvia Else
> This shouldn't be a problem should it?
>
> http://www.wikihow.com/Practice-Nudity-in-Your-Family
>
> Step 3 says nudity in the house saves on cooling bills
No doubt, but it can still be too warm to sleep.
Sylvia.
Sylvia Else
I was wondering whether I should apply some coating to the new board
when it comes (whether I install it or a technician does), but while I
do indeed have some concern for the tracks on the current board, I'm not
able to convince myself that it's the actual cause of the fault. This is
because it's become increasingly clear that the problem lies in the PSU
section, and its tracks are wide, and in better condition anyway.
This is also the part of the board that's particularly vulnerable to
mains voltage supply spikes, because it's directly connected, making
Glenns suggestion quite plausible.
I haven't had good experiences with trying to repair split mode power
supplies without a schematic, and trying to figure out a schematic from
a board layout (double sided at that) is the kind of thing that leads to
violence.
It's also too easy just to discover that that reason a moderately
expensive component was fried was that it was the victim of some other
fault on the board, which cannot be diagnosed because it immediately
fries any replacement component.
Sylvia.
Trevor Wilson
"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:495e0c91$0$7879$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
**Impossible to say. I can tell you, for certain, that the shots of the PCB
indicate corrosion problems. Measurements of the power supply may (or may
not) tell you if the power supply is faulty. Generally, power supplies are
pretty simple things to fault find. An experienced tech (not necessarily an
air-con repair man) should be able to diagnose and repair the fault. Again,
I reckon you've probably nominated the real cause of the problem. That
corrosion of the fine PCB tracks is the likely culprit.
>
> This is also the part of the board that's particularly vulnerable to mains
> voltage supply spikes, because it's directly connected, making Glenns
> suggestion quite plausible.
**Glenn may be a good air-con guy, but he clearly knows little about
electronics. Mains supply spikes, capable of causing damage are extremely
rare. When they do occur, LOTS of household electronics fail. Usually
spectacularly. I would expect that a high end air-con, like your Daikin
would be liberally sprinkled with MOVs (like pretty much all PCs) for
protection.
>
> I haven't had good experiences with trying to repair split mode power
> supplies without a schematic, and trying to figure out a schematic from a
> board layout (double sided at that) is the kind of thing that leads to
> violence.
**The FIRST thing that needs to be done is to meter those suspect traces. If
they're OK, then move on to other things. If the traces read O/C, then you
can be damned certain that you have found the problem. It is possible that
the power supply may not even power-up unless the traces are intact. There
are often feedback systems which shut down power supplies in the event of a
fault elsewhere. Solve the obvius fault first. Then move on to more
speculative things.
>
> It's also too easy just to discover that that reason a moderately
> expensive component was fried was that it was the victim of some other
> fault on the board, which cannot be diagnosed because it immediately fries
> any replacement component.
**Indeed. However, you need to meter those narrow PCB tracks before you do
anything.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
David Barnett
news:495da163$0$25649$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
These days even $180 would not be worth it.
My oldest VHS VCR, a Tandy, is still going strong; tho belt bands were
replaced several years ago. I don't use it much these days.
Two earlier Betamax VCRs bit the dust as well as a later Sanyo VHS one.
Some time back I bought a Phillips VHS VCR from David Jones and had picture
trouble with it from the start. Repairers blamed dirty heads, but even after
they cleaned them it still had the same trouble - tho it was under warranty,
I never did get any satisfaction about it.. Tho it still works (sort of) I
have it packed away.
--
David Barnett
ausmartin
Daikin should have new spares they really are pretty good as a
company, but you should get a proper tech from Daikin to evaluate or
install the new board.
If your in a capaital city - get Daikins own service tech if you can
wait, they can also book an agent - don't - Some of the agents are
monkeys.
The new board should be available from Daikin they are usually pretty
good, but like others say here is it all just down to corrosion or
was there a voltage spike? as it's on 24/7 through powerline - esp
during storms
OR is the condesors fan etc. electrically faulty, on single splits it
has been know to take out the board another U4 fault can also be
caused by the power supply board of the indoor - they can produce
a fuzzy voltage when old and tired. Daikin also have these and can be
replaced.
Get it diagonsed correctly, put a new board etc. and you'll get a
number of more years out of it, then replace it.
Quality splits last 10-15 yhears on the short side, less in salty
corrosive enviroments.
They are less durable than say the older style room box a/c but they
are very energy efficient these days......
GlennP
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@_SPAMBLOCK_rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:6s79v4F...@mid.individual.net...
It's up to Sylvia as to repair or replace, & I'm not saying that corrosion
on the narrow tracks is not the cause, but I'm saying it's not anywhere
close to being the guaranteed fault. I have replaced fully working A/C's
with PCB's marked worse than that, they were only replaced because the metal
box/enclosure had rusted & the compressor had fallen through the bottom.
Any A/C tech will not fault find & repair the PCB as they're not worth it,
they are a throw away item & do fail sometimes. The entire PCB will be
replaced (they only plug in, not hard wired). An electronics tech would
fault find & repair the PCB, but that's their job & how they make their
money, which may end up costing more than replacing the entire PCB?
I'm not just an A/C guy, I'm an electrical technician & do know a bit about
electronics. I have seen enough faulty A/C PCB's to say it's usually a
component fault or a tracking short across the top (or bottom) of the board
between components which more often than not also takes out other
components. I have also seen indoor PCB's develop a fault & take out the
outdoor PCB also & vice versa.
Mains supply spikes that take out various electronics are quite common & can
damage 1 or 2 items (inc. air conds.) & leave others alone, Sylvia did say
she had a faulty toaster too. Most people now have filtered powerboards
supplying computers, TV's & the like, to protect them from this, whereas the
A/C's are directly connected to the supply & cop it all, good & bad.
I also never said it was caused by a high over voltage spike, (from
lightning) these are rare & can do damage to everything. Brownouts are very
common & are actually more dangerous & do more damage to electronic
components & most people don't know about them or don't expect they are the
culprit.
Just for your information here is a very good description about them I've
taken from the PC Guide web site.
Brownouts
A brownout, sometimes also called a sag, is a "dip" in the voltage level of
the electrical line. When a brownout occurs, the voltage drops from its
normal level to a lower voltage and then returns; in some ways, it's like
the opposite of a surge. Most power supplies can handle a reduction in the
nominal voltage that it is expecting. The capability of the power supply in
this regard is dependent upon its allowable input voltage range. For
example, a power supply might be rated for 115 VAC, but may accept anything
from 95 V to 135 V. Any reduction of voltage below 95 V for more than a
fraction of a second is likely to cause the power supply to either shut down
or malfunction.
Brownouts are extremely common, and can lead to mysterious problems you
would never blame on the power system. You can sometimes detect a brownout
by noticing the lights flickering or dimming; they occur often during heavy
load periods such as in the late afternoon on a hot summer day, and also
during storms, as the local grid is affected by mechanical failures in
adjacent areas. As the world's electric grids become more and more taxed due
to increased demand, the incidence of brownouts is increasing.
Brownouts can wreak havoc with computer systems. In many ways, they are
worse than a blackout. In a blackout, the power just goes off, but with a
brownout the device continues to get power but at a reduced level, and some
devices will malfunction rather than failing totally. (I'm adding this bit)
Rapid multiple voltage fluctuations i.e.. during storms are dangerous to
electronics & damage them quite easily. Electronic components are very
sensitive items & like a smooth regulated voltage (& operating temperature).
Cheers
Glenn.
Kelpie
"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
Do you live in the tropics, or Sydney?
the_dawggie
Sydney is bad enough for me, humidity kills me as my body fails
to cool itself and I start to feel very sick.
--
Kipland.
the_dawggie
If I'm alone I'll walk around nude all day and sleep that way, as well
as visit nude beaches.
No way in hell I'm doing it around family members, and I don't
want them nude around me.
--
Kip.
Sylvia Else
I'm in Sydney, which is why my air conditioners are rarely used. But
Sydney gets some very hot days - 40C is not by any means unprecedented,
and on such days, airconditioning is a godsend.
Sylvia.
Sylvia Else
> Some time back I bought a Phillips VHS VCR from David Jones and had picture
> trouble with it from the start. Repairers blamed dirty heads
For future reference, anything that's faulty from the start should be
returned for a refund, which is a consumer's absolute right. Never
accept a repair.
Sylvia.
Jeßus
And yet you plan to move to QLD?!?!
LOL.
--
"Some days we don't let the line move at all. We call those weekdays"
Patty and Selma Bouvier, 1996
ausmartin
Well said!
Cheers.
Sylvia Else
> It's up to Sylvia as to repair or replace, & I'm not saying that corrosion
> on the narrow tracks is not the cause, but I'm saying it's not anywhere
> close to being the guaranteed fault. I have replaced fully working A/C's
> with PCB's marked worse than that, they were only replaced because the metal
> box/enclosure had rusted & the compressor had fallen through the bottom.
I suppose it's possible the board looks worse than it is. What we may be
seeing in the photograph is places where the protective coating has been
lost, resulting in oxidation of the surface of the underlying track.
That is, very little conductive metal may have been lost despite the
tracks looking pretty ragged in places.
I'm still unimpressed though.
Sylvia.
Trevor Wilson
"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:495eb96e$0$26491$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
**The narrow tracks are the ones of most concern. A small amount of
corrosion can cause an Open Circuit (O/C), whilst on larger tracks, faults
are less obvious. You need to meter all the narrow tracks for continuity.
Any tracks showing an O/C should be sorted via a length of wire. As I stated
earlier, if it was mine, I'd deal with ALL the narrow tracks. If one is
causing a problem now, you can guarantee that the others are not far behind.
The corrosion will continue, regardless of what you do, UNLESS you remove
the corrosion and coat the board appropriately.
>
> I'm still unimpressed though.
**As well you should be.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Sylvia Else
There a lot of narrow tracks.
I've removed the board from the unit now. The otherside of the board
(which is underneath when installed) is in good shape.
In the mean time, I've found a resistor on the board that should be 8.2
Ohms, but is open circuit, and it's in the primary circuit of the switch
mode PS. It's also raised off the board suggesting it runs hot by
design. I suppose the obvious next step is to replace it, though I may
find that the replacement just burns out as well.
However, there's hope - it doesn't look as if it's died through
incineration.
Sylvia.
Trevor Wilson
"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:495ee9e5$0$23396$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
**It will be a fusible type resistor. You MUST replace it with the same
type. Otherwise, a fire may ensue. If the resistor has failed, then it is
highly likely that the something else has caused it to fail. If it is a
switch mode power supply, then the chopper transistor (MOSFET) is the likely
culprit. These represent 90% of faults with SMPS. It may use an IC as a
chopper, though these are less common.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Sylvia Else
Thanks for the tip.
Best I can see, the switching transistor is a bi-polar type. I'm trying
to figure out what the circuit is (did I mention this causing violence?)
to see what would have to fail to bias the transistor permanently on.
However, it may be a moot point. If I have to source fusible resistors
from RS Components (given that neither DSE nor JayCar) have them, then
the cost (mainly P&P) quickly escalates, which makes it less viable
given that there's a good chance the repair won't work.
Sylvia.
Trevor Wilson
"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:495efb83$0$7111$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
**Unlikely. What is the part number?
I'm trying
> to figure out what the circuit is (did I mention this causing violence?)
> to see what would have to fail to bias the transistor permanently on.
**Check the chopper with a meter on semiconductor setting. It will probably
need to be removed to ensure correct readings.
>
> However, it may be a moot point. If I have to source fusible resistors
> from RS Components (given that neither DSE nor JayCar) have them, then the
> cost (mainly P&P) quickly escalates, which makes it less viable given that
> there's a good chance the repair won't work.
**WES Components is your best source for fusibles, outside Farnell and RS.
They're less expensive too. I do not, however, recommend the purchase of
chopper transistors from WES. They, like Jaycar and DSE, have been known to
sell fakes. Farnell and RS have a traceable supply line to the
manufacturers.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Sylvia Else
C3751.
Bear in mind this A/C is eight or nine years old.
>
> **WES Components is your best source for fusibles, outside Farnell and RS.
> They're less expensive too. I do not, however, recommend the purchase of
> chopper transistors from WES. They, like Jaycar and DSE, have been known to
> sell fakes. Farnell and RS have a traceable supply line to the
> manufacturers.
>
>
Sylvia.
Trevor Wilson
"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:495f0a79$0$26491$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
**A 2SC3751. NPN, Bipolar. 800 Volt, 1.5 Amp, 15MHz. Yep, it is a likely
candidate. WES Components may be your only real choice for an original part.
You may find a substitute in the Farnell catalogue. If you decide on a WES
part, be aware that you may recieve a fake. Perhaps you could threaten some
legal action if you're not supplied with a non-fake item.
>
> Bear in mind this A/C is eight or nine years old.
**Indeed. MOSFETs were common enough back then in SMPS though.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Sylvia Else
My oscilloscope has a component tester function (basically a plot of
voltage against current), and when used on the switching transistor, in
circuit, it shows what would be expected for each junction. However, for
another transistor (a small NPN) it showed traces that suggested the
transistor was shorted. So I removed it, and it is indeed dead.
Spending $25 on replacing it and the fusible resistor seems like a
worthwhile investment, so I'll try that, unless a replacement board
turns out to be quite cheap (which I don't expect).
Sylvia.
Kelpie
"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
While Sydney occaiosonally hits 40deg Sydney during the day, it's rarely
over 25deg in the evening. Are you a shift worker and need to sleep during
the day?
Sylvia Else
> "Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
> news:495ea2c1$0$3253$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>> Kelpie wrote:
>>> "Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
>>> news:495e0951$0$20808$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>>> ^Tems^ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This shouldn't be a problem should it?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.wikihow.com/Practice-Nudity-in-Your-Family
>>>>>
>>>>> Step 3 says nudity in the house saves on cooling bills
>>>> No doubt, but it can still be too warm to sleep.
>>>>
>>>> Sylvia.
>>> Do you live in the tropics, or Sydney?
>> I'm in Sydney, which is why my air conditioners are rarely used. But
>> Sydney gets some very hot days - 40C is not by any means unprecedented,
>> and on such days, airconditioning is a godsend.
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> While Sydney occaiosonally hits 40deg Sydney during the day, it's rarely
> over 25deg in the evening.
It hits overnight temperatures that are high enough for weather
forecasters to comment about the effect it has on sleeping.
While it may usually be true that it's cool enough outside, buildings
have thermal inertia, and they can stay quite warm inside, despite best
efforts using fans to increase the transfer of air.
Sylvia.
Wog George
"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
wish to run your air conditioner. I used to drive around Canberra in winter
with the aircon on. Why? Nobody's business... just like your aircon.
Tell him to fuck off. That's all he's ever been waiting for, yet you keep
denying him. Just one "fuck off" could change his entire life. Go on. You
both know that you want to do it...
--
George
"We've got Jews and perverts and bullies and all kinds of sinners in this
town, Sister Ann." - Eric Cartman - 26 July 2000
Sylvia Else
Well, I concede that that may be what he's hoping I'll say, but, if so,
he has Buckley's chance, since I've never said that to anyone in my
entire life (strange, but true [Twilight Zone music here]).
It probably annoys the hell out of him, and others, that I give
considered replies to their attempts to wind me up.
That's why I do it.
Sylvia.
♥ Horry ♥
Oh boy.
David Barnett
> My Daikin airconditioner failed to work when required last night.
>
> Since I'm not about to pay a $88 callout fee and $88 per hour for some
> technician to replace a fuse, I took the cover off the external unit for a
> look see.
>
> Unfortunately, the fuses are intact, and there's nothing obviously wrong
> with the the circuit board, other than that it appears completely dead. It
> has an array of diagnostic diodes, or which one is meant to be flashing
> continously. There's a chart on an internal plastic cover that appears to
> be telling me that the board is faulty. My guess is that when the
> technician arrives he's going to tell me it needs replacing.
>
> Now, I've said that there's nothing obviously wrong with it. That's
> perhaps overstating it. Here's a picture of part of it
>
> http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/cbCrop.jpg
>
> Note the obvious corrosion of the circuit tracks. The circuit board is
> inside the unit's box, but is otherwise totally unprotected from the
> elements and wildlife. Insects can crawl around the board, doing what
> insects do, and evidently have. I removed a dead spider and some of its
> web. There was also quite a lot of dirt before I blew it away.
>
> but it hasn't really been used that much - no more than a couple of weeks
> per year maximum. The state of the board may or may not be the cause of
> the failure, but surely a circuit board stuck outside should be better
> protected than this.
>
> So, before you buy a Daikin (or any other brand, I suppose) find out
> whether the circuit board is just expected to fend for itself in the
> outside world.
Well, I also have a Daikin air-conditioner, somewhat less than 7 years old.
The installers are apparently out of business, as I found out when I tried
to ring them when I thought I had a fault, which I think was due to the
remote needing new batteries.
I thought it had gone a second time, rang the Daikin people, and was on the
point of ordering a new remote. Fortunately IIRC I had rung on a weekend and
had to wait until Monday.
However, after fiddling with the original remote, eventually found it had
the wrong settings on it & after remedying this, everything is OK again.
My ducted system has an outside unit unprotected from the elements &
insects, and going by your story I may have only a year to go before ...
Well thanks to you I now know the prices of repairs, which will probably be
higher by the time I need them.
--
David Barnett
TG'sFM
Don't let it worry you David. YOU might not be around in a years time.
Kelpie
"TG'sFM" <suv...@yahoo.fr> wrote in message
news:3b314d4d-bed7-48a4...@f40g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
Is Dr B a friend of Springy?
Mr.T
"GlennP" <pleas...@newsgroups.com.au> wrote in message
news:495e8648$0$32004$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
In fact most *electronics* are NOT damaged by brownouts (or reduced
voltage). There are VERY few *electronic* components that will be damaged by
lower than expected voltage. The major items at risk are motors, fridges and
freezers often being damaged in such cases.
Of course a brownout is often accompanied by a surge when full voltage is
restored, so you may think the brownout caused the problem.
MrT.
Sylvia Else
> My ducted system has an outside unit unprotected from the elements &
> insects, and going by your story I may have only a year to go before ...
You may be OK. I have two identical units that were installed at the
same time. The board on the other one looks fine. It is installed on ths
side of the house out in the open where it gets the sun for part of the
day.
The one that's failed is installed on the ground, in the shade
underneath a deck. Perhaps a combination of easier access, less exposed
(to predators) location, and lesser extremes of temperature has made it
more attractive to the critters who can damage it. Also, any moisture on
the board is less likely to be removed quickly by heating from the sun.
I've been able to identify a particular transistor that's failed.
Considering its role and position in the circuit, I don't think board
corrosion has played any part of its failure. I rather think it simply
decided it was tired of life.
One thing that's become apparent to me is that both the indoor and
outdoor units are constantly powered, and drawing current (probably not
much, but some). For a device that spends most of its time not being
used, this seems rather wasteful. It also leaves them needlessly exposed
to power surges, etc.
I'll have to consider leaving their circuit breakers tripped. Anyone
have comment on the wisdom of that? (Thermal cycling, etc?).
One remaining oddity - I've found a resistor that's only connected at
one end. Perhaps circuit board CAD tools hadn't progressed so far when
the board was developed.
Sylvia.
GlennP
"Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
news:49600614$0$7377$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Motors, refrigeration compressors (fridge, freezer, air conds.), actually
themselves cause a brownout on start-up & are not affected by the brief
milliseconds drop in voltage, they can easily handle a 30-35% dip in voltage
without damage.
As a motor starts, (depending on the motor & how it's wired to start), it
can draw up to or over 10 times the full load current. i.e 5 amps full load
at 240 V can be around 50 amps at 240 V on start up, which depending in the
size of the motor & it's load can last anywhere from 1 second to 20 or so
seconds, & as you increase the current with a fixed resistance/impedance the
voltage drops, (thus self created brownout).
Brownouts can last for a few seconds or a few hours depending on what caused
it & how it's controlled. Long lasting minimal voltage drop ones can damage
motors, but internal overload circuits usually trip out long before that
happens, protecting the motor. Short (millisecond) ones of large or small
voltage drop (like happens during storms) is more likely to damage the
electronics controlling the motor or other electronic items, than it is to
damage the motor itself.
It's not necessarily the lower than expected voltage that kills
*electronics* is the rapid rises & falls in voltage that they don't like. As
I said before, electronics like smooth regulated voltages.
Cheers
Glenn.
GlennP
"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
Sylvia, in regards to leaving the A/C's turned off at the circuit breaker,
that's up to you. A/C's have a small heating coil wrapped around the
compressor, that runs all the time. If you leave it turned off (not so much
in the summer, but) in the winter (even in Sydney) the oil in the gas can
start to thicken especially as it gets older & used, & you risk damaging or
seizing the compressor on start-up (much the same as a car motor).
Your's may be too old to say, but in the instruction manual, all new A/C's
tell you to have the power connected for at least 4 hours before turning on.
Daikins especially, highlight this recommendation, so much so, new Daikin
ducted systems come with an inbuilt timer, locking out the start-up of the
system until the initial power connection has been continuously turned on
for 9 hours.
Cheers
Glenn.
Jasper
may be breaching copyright.
"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:495d8a3b$0$18714$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
> My Daikin airconditioner failed to work when required last night.
>
> Since I'm not about to pay a $88 callout fee and $88 per hour for some
> technician to replace a fuse, I took the cover off the external unit for a
> look see.
>
> Unfortunately, the fuses are intact, and there's nothing obviously wrong
> with the the circuit board, other than that it appears completely dead. It
> has an array of diagnostic diodes, or which one is meant to be flashing
> continously. There's a chart on an internal plastic cover that appears to
> be telling me that the board is faulty. My guess is that when the
> technician arrives he's going to tell me it needs replacing.
>
> Now, I've said that there's nothing obviously wrong with it. That's
> perhaps overstating it. Here's a picture of part of it
>
> http://members.optusnet.com.au/sylviae/cbCrop.jpg
>
> Note the obvious corrosion of the circuit tracks. The circuit board is
> inside the unit's box, but is otherwise totally unprotected from the
> elements and wildlife. Insects can crawl around the board, doing what
> insects do, and evidently have. I removed a dead spider and some of its
> web. There was also quite a lot of dirt before I blew it away.
>
> Now, this air conditioner has worked without fault for eight years or so,
> but it hasn't really been used that much - no more than a couple of weeks
> per year maximum. The state of the board may or may not be the cause of
> the failure, but surely a circuit board stuck outside should be better
> protected than this.
>
> So, before you buy a Daikin (or any other brand, I suppose) find out
> whether the circuit board is just expected to fend for itself in the
> outside world.
>
> Sylvia.
>
>
blofelds_cat
> Be careful in putting a photograph of a circuit board on the internet. You
> may be breaching copyright.
>
rgds,
Pete
=====
http://pw352.blogspot.com/
"Rudds awkward, folksy addresses to troops in Afghanistan denigrated
their intelligence and the reason why they're there"
"Thank you Mr.Howard and Mr. Costello for the Christmas present Mr. Rudd sent me"
-media comments
Sylvia Else
> Be careful in putting a photograph of a circuit board on the internet. You
> may be breaching copyright.
"Fair dealing for purpose of criticism or review," and I believe I've
given more than sufficient acknowledgement of the work. Indeed, Daikin
would probably have preferred less.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ca1968133/s41.html
Sylvia.
Sylvia Else
> Jasper wrote:
>
>> Be careful in putting a photograph of a circuit board on the
>> internet. You may be breaching copyright.
>>
>
> LOL!
Why? He's just wrong about that.
Sylvia.
blofelds_cat
Jasper
"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
> Jasper wrote:
>> Be careful in putting a photograph of a circuit board on the internet.
>> You may be breaching copyright.
>
> "Fair dealing for purpose of criticism or review," and I believe I've
> given more than sufficient acknowledgement of the work. Indeed, Daikin
> would probably have preferred less.
>
How were you criticising or reviewing the work? The idea of these fair
dealing exceptions is that the benefit of allowing criticism and review
outweighs the harm caused by the breach of copyright.
You were not enaging in any criticism or review of the work of the
circuit-board, hence your reproduction is unlikely to fall into the fair
dealing category.
Sylvia Else
"Note the obvious corrosion of the circuit tracks...but surely a circuit
board stuck outside should be better protected than this."
How is that not criticism or review?
Sylvia.
Sylvia Else
> I used to drive around Canberra in winter
> with the aircon on. Why? Nobody's business... just like your aircon.
Indeed, the aircon in my car stays on year round as well.
Sylvia.
Jasper
"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
You're not critcising or reviewing the creative aspect of the circuit-board,
which assumedly is the layout of the circuit and the markings etc.
David Barnett
news:495fe157$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
<snip>
>> My ducted system has an outside unit unprotected from the elements &
>> insects, and going by your story I may have only a year to go before ...
>> Well thanks to you I now know the prices of repairs, which will probably
>> be
>> higher by the time I need them.
>
>>Don't let it worry you David. YOU might not be around in a years time.
>
> Is Dr B a friend of Springy?
No way!
He's on my plonk list.
It's true that I might not be around in a year's time - who knows?
A lot of other people might not be around also.
--
David Barnett
♥ Horry ♥
> "Kelpie" <mph...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:495fe157$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> <snip>
>
>>> My ducted system has an outside unit unprotected from the elements &
>>> insects, and going by your story I may have only a year to go before
>>> ... Well thanks to you I now know the prices of repairs, which will
>>> probably be
>>> higher by the time I need them.
>>
>>>Don't let it worry you David. YOU might not be around in a years time.
>>
>> Is Dr B a friend of Springy?
>
> No way!
> He's on my plonk list.
I have many friends on my plonk list.
They're fantastic people in real life, but put them anywhere near Usenet
and they start posting absolute shit.
Mr.T
> Nice thought but no.
> Motors, refrigeration compressors (fridge, freezer, air conds.), actually
> themselves cause a brownout on start-up & are not affected by the brief
> milliseconds drop in voltage,
Of course, but a sustained "brownout" can be a killer. A millisecond drop in
voltage DOES NOT qualify as a "brownout".
>they can easily handle a 30-35% dip in voltage
> without damage.
For a few seconds, or maybe even minutes, sure.
> As a motor starts, (depending on the motor & how it's wired to start), it
> can draw up to or over 10 times the full load current. i.e 5 amps full
load
> at 240 V can be around 50 amps at 240 V on start up, which depending in
the
> size of the motor & it's load can last anywhere from 1 second to 20 or so
> seconds, & as you increase the current with a fixed resistance/impedance
the
> voltage drops, (thus self created brownout).
Your definition of "brownout" here is completely fallacious.
> Brownouts can last for a few seconds or a few hours depending on what
caused
> it & how it's controlled. Long lasting minimal voltage drop ones can
damage
> motors,
Depends on *your* definition of "minimal".
By a more reasonable definition that would be less than 10% and should cause
no problem with a properly designed motor.
>but internal overload circuits usually trip out long before that
> happens, protecting the motor.
IF they are fitted and work properly, then possibly yes. The number of
fridges and freezers killed by longer term brownouts over the years would
prove this is not always so. In fact last months Silicon chip has a circuit
for a brown out protector to shut off the mains in just such an eventuality.
> Short (millisecond) ones of large or small
> voltage drop (like happens during storms) is more likely to damage the
> electronics controlling the motor or other electronic items, than it is to
> damage the motor itself.
Which is NOT a brownout. But in any case short voltage DROPS will not kill
electronics, a resulting sharp increase MAY however.
Some items do not like having the mains turned off AND on again rapidly, but
name one item that cannot cope with the mains simply being turned off?
> It's not necessarily the lower than expected voltage that kills
> *electronics* is the rapid rises & falls in voltage that they don't like.
As
> I said before, electronics like smooth regulated voltages.
Funny then that most power amps for example are unregulated, and often
survive for decades, and being turned on and off when needed.
As I said, rapid FALLS in the mains voltage do not kill electronics. In fact
almost ALL electronic items suffer just such a drop every time the power is
turned off! For many that is every day, or even more.
Hell, even a light bulb will fail at switch on, not switch off, and for
quite obvious reasons.
I'm very surprised they are not obvious to you.
But hey, you can believe in the tooth fairy if you like, I'm not about to
care.
MrT.
Mr.T
news:dd18l.7554$cu....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> >>>"Jasper" <j...@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:12310585...@kangaroo.ozonline.com.au...
> >>> Be careful in putting a photograph of a circuit board on the
> >>> internet. You may be breaching copyright.
> >>
> >> LOL!
> >
> > Why? He's just wrong about that.
>
> I just found it amusing how seriously some ppl take things.
Or maybe he was being sarcastic. Hard to imagine he was serious, but who
knows.
MrT.
Mr.T
> You were not enaging in any criticism or review of the work of the
> circuit-board,
I thought that was EXACTLY what she was doing!
MrT.
Mr.T
> > How is that not criticism or review?
> >
>
> You're not critcising or reviewing the creative aspect of the
circuit-board,
> which assumedly is the layout of the circuit and the markings etc.
Ah yes, the "define the terms so narrowly as to be meaningless trick", so
beloved of politicians.
Fortunately courts do not always follow suit.
MrT.
Sylvia Else
The work being criticised is the board. I don't see that you can disect
out what you consider to be the creative element involved in the
production of the board, and then say that since that element is not
being criticised, the fair dealing provision doesn't apply.
Sylvia.
Jasper
"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
How are you criticising the work of the board?
Sylvia Else
By pointing to the corrosion it had suffered.
Sylvia.
Jasper
"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
I am not allowed to reproduce the Mona Lisa (if it is subject to copyright)
in order to point out damage to the picture frame.
Sylvia Else
I don't think the analogy applies. The Mona Lisa is a distinct item from
the frame it occupies. By contrast, the circuit layout is an integral
part of the board on which it is embodied.
However, that aside, it's far from clear that the picture I've posted
would be a breach of copyright even in the absence of the fair dealing
provision, because it is not a substantial part of the whole board.
Sylvia.
atec77
> I don't think
At least we have common ground there .
Sylvia Else
You mean you don't either?
Sylvia.
atec77
the thrust of the matter is you walk around with a cloud of vicks
blocking your cognizance functions
therefore we agree you most certainly don't
Kwyjibo
Heh. You could have worded that a bit better..........
--
Kwyj.
atec77
looks for the easy way out and sits in denyle
Mr.T
"atec77" <ate...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:gjs5o6$fl1$1...@news.motzarella.org...
> >>> I don't think
> >>
> >> At least we have common ground there .
> >
> > Heh. You could have worded that a bit better..........
> >
> Yes I realised that after hitting send , but then the dumb bint always
> looks for the easy way out and sits in denyle
Now I know a lot of people say De-Nile, but "denyle" is a new one,
especially for someone calling anybody else "dumb" :-)
MrT.
atec77
jonz
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
nah, `twas very true.....
>
--
jonz
If nobody knows the troubles you've seen, then you don't live in a small
town
jonz
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
nup, yer fucked on this one......scuttle away.....
Sylvia Else
Do you know its meaning?
Sylvia.
atec77
how unsurprising
og and gfus
Sylvia Else
Do you know the meaning of "straw-man argument"?
You mentioned sarcasm, but it seemed a non sequitur, suggesting that you
thought that you'd engaged in sarcasm, when you hadn't.
Sylvia.
Sylvia Else
> **WES Components is your best source for fusibles,
I wish they provided prices. OK, either way the total cost of the
fusibles is going to be mainly P&P, but I'd be discouraged from buying
other stuff from them simply by the need to contact them for a price for
anything I might consider.
Maybe they've analysed their situation and concluded that giving prices
is a bad idea, but I have to wonder. I'm sure I'm not the only person
who routinely skips sites that don't provide prices - they're too much
trouble.
Sylvia.
GlennP
"Mr.T" <MrT@home> wrote in message
news:49614d0d$0$12942$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Believe what you want.
Are you an electrical engineer? If so I'll stand corrected & believe you.
I'm an electrical tech. (1 step down from engineer) I've been doing this for
over 20 years, my Father & Grandfather were are electricians, so I have been
involved with it one way or another all my life.
Millisecond voltage drop DOES qualify as a brownout, any surge that will
make an incandescent light bulb noticeably flicker is a voltage drop below
nominal voltage & 0 volts, which is the definition of a brownout.
Your definition of minimal voltage drop at less than 10% wouldn't harm a
motor because it isn't a brownout, it's still within the nominal allowable
voltage range. At 240v a minimal voltage drop would be (210v may just scrap
in) but 205-190v is minimal voltage drop, below that working overloads
should start tripping out.
As for fridges & freezers being killed by longer term brownouts, that
concludes to me 1) It is probably old & may be ready to die anyway, 2) It's
obviously not working properly & any change in the electricity supply
potentially has the ability to kill it.
As for light bulbs failing at switch on & not off, maybe you should tell me
the obvious reasons cause I have seen many light bulbs fail at or within
seconds of both switch on & off, & light bulbs failing has nothing to with
the surge or rise & fall of voltage (that's a factor, but not the cause).
The cause of a light bulb failing is due the expansion & contraction of the
metallic element that runs white hot.
Answer me this though, if the rapid fall in voltage (not total loss of
voltage i.e. turning it off) doesn't kill electronics, then why does the
rapid increase (back up) kill them, when the voltage doesn't rise back up to
anything over what they were working at possibly milliseconds ago?
In real world situations, during a storm a distant lightning strike may
instantly & briefly (milliseconds) earth the energy in power lines & drop
the voltage making your lights flicker, when the lines are re-energized the
voltage comes back up. If it was at 240v before the lightning strike, it
returns to 240v not more, not even briefly, so why do so many electronic
components fail during storms when no direct or close (within 500m)
lightning strikes occur?
A direct lightning strike is different & may raise a 240v supply to 1000's
of volts, & more than just your electronic components will fail.
Glenn.
Trevor Wilson
"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
news:4961ca7d$0$12942$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
**Ah, I see. What do you need? I have a nice, paper cattle-dog, from which I
obtain all my prices. It has purdy pictures and everything. I never use
their web site.
My cost for fusibles is as follows:
0.5 Watt - $0.17 ea
1 Watt - $0.24 ea
2 Watt - $0.28 ea
You'll need to add something to those prices, if you pay retail.
You'll get a much larger range from Farnell. Better quality too, but at
higher prices (usually).
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Mr.T
> Do you know the word "sarcasm" ?
Sure, and it's not spelt "denyle" :-)
Mrt.
Michael C
> My Daikin airconditioner failed to work when required last night.
Farkin hell. 100+ replies to this cross posting irrelevant troll. Good thing
no one feeds 'em here ;-)
Michael
atec77
whooshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Mr.T
"Sylvia Else" <syl...@not.at.this.address> wrote in message
> > atec77 wrote:
> > what another straw-man argument from you ?
>
Did you really need to ask? :-)
MrT.
Sylvia Else
Most of the replies are not to me.
Sylvia.
atec77
Mr.T
> Are you an electrical engineer? If so I'll stand corrected & believe you.
Electronic Engineer, which seems far more appropriate in this discussion
IMO.
> I'm an electrical tech. (1 step down from engineer) I've been doing this
for
> over 20 years, my Father & Grandfather were are electricians, so I have
been
> involved with it one way or another all my life.
Am I supposed to be impressed after what you have claimed?
MrT.
^Tems^
Did you just call yourself a troll?
Have Dr B's on topic posts been upsetting you?
Sylvia Else
No, I merely accepted the obvious reality that Michael was referring to
me. He's not the only person who calls me a troll. Indeed, there are
some individuals whose entire posting life appears to centre around
doing so. Well, if that makes them happy.....
Sylvia.
Sylvia Else
Is this do as I say, not do as I do?
Sylvia.
Michael C
> No, I merely accepted the obvious reality that Michael was referring to
> me. He's not the only person who calls me a troll. Indeed, there are some
> individuals whose entire posting life appears to centre around doing so.
> Well, if that makes them happy.....
I really haven't read enough of your posts to know if you're a troll or not
but this post certainly was. Cross posting irrelevant crap to 3 newsgroups
is trolling.
Michael
^Tems^
> ^Tems^ wrote:
>>>> Farkin hell. 100+ replies to this cross posting irrelevant troll. Good
>>>> thing no one feeds 'em here ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>
>>> Most of the replies are not to me.
>>>
>>> Sylvia.
>>
>> Did you just call yourself a troll?
>> Have Dr B's on topic posts been upsetting you?
>
> No, I merely accepted the obvious reality that Michael was referring to
> me. He's not the only person who calls me a troll. Indeed, there are
> some individuals whose entire posting life appears to centre around
>
It does