Hydraulic lifters and engine miss.

[Jason James]

The ED HLifters are prolly original and make a clacking sound as oil-pressure rises to normal. Thing is, during the 1 second this noise occurs, the engine seems to run rough. There is a vibration thru the body, then, it comes good as the lifters go quiet.

My Q is, do some lifters when lacking oil-pressure, allow the valve to only open a little bit ? IOW, does the engine actually run with some cylinders not firing due reduced valve opening ?

My first inclination is to say No,..but I cant think of why the engine runs rough for a sec,...unless something else is happening like low inj fuel-rail pressure.

To boot, I've had a CM Val which had been left with bad lifters for years, and it wasn't missing at all despite the engine sounding feral.

Jason

[D Walford]

On 04/12/2014 9:30 AM, Jason James wrote:
> The ED HLifters are prolly original and make a clacking sound as oil-pressure rises to normal. Thing is, during the 1 second this noise occurs, the engine seems to run rough. There is a vibration thru the body, then, it comes good as the lifters go quiet.
>
> My Q is, do some lifters when lacking oil-pressure, allow the valve to only open a little bit ? IOW, does the engine actually run with some cylinders not firing due reduced valve opening ?

Most likely.

>
> My first inclination is to say No,..but I cant think of why the engine runs rough for a sec,...unless something else is happening like low inj fuel-rail pressure.
>
> To boot, I've had a CM Val which had been left with bad lifters for years, and it wasn't missing at all despite the engine sounding feral.
>

Its a pretty common problem with Falcon 6's and it isn't something I
would worry about as long as it only happens on cold start up.


--
Daryl

[Noddy]

On 04/12/14 9:30 AM, Jason James wrote:

> The ED HLifters are prolly original and make a clacking sound as
> oil-pressure rises to normal. Thing is, during the 1 second this
> noise occurs, the engine seems to run rough. There is a vibration
> thru the body, then, it comes good as the lifters go quiet.

Odd.

> My Q is, do some lifters when lacking oil-pressure, allow the valve
> to only open a little bit ?

Generally, yes. As valve lash is controlled by the amount of oil that
makes it into the lifter to "pump it up", if it's not getting enough it
will create an increased valve clearance which will ultimately lead to a
reduced valve lift.

> IOW, does the engine actually run with
> some cylinders not firing due reduced valve opening ?

It would have to be a massively reduced valve opening for a cylinder to
not fire, and it'd sound more like a hammering than a simple clacking.

> My first inclination is to say No,..but I cant think of why the
> engine runs rough for a sec,...unless something else is happening
> like low inj fuel-rail pressure.

As usual it's awfully difficult to tell without hearing/seeing it
yourself, but if it's *just* a bit of clacky lifter noise while it's
waiting to get oil pressure that normally *won't* cause the problems
you've described.

It sounds like it has a separate issue going on.

> To boot, I've had a CM Val which had been left with bad lifters for
> years, and it wasn't missing at all despite the engine sounding
> feral.

They generally don't.

You don't need much in the way of excess clearance for valve train noise
to be apparent. A couple of thousandths is plenty to make "clack" a
reality, and about all it will do if left unchecked will be to mushroom
the ends of the valve stems.

It won't make the engine misfire.





--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Jason James]

On Thursday, December 4, 2014 12:06:10 PM UTC+11, Noddy wrote:
> On 04/12/14 9:30 AM, Jason James wrote:
>
> > The ED HLifters are prolly original and make a clacking sound as
> > oil-pressure rises to normal. Thing is, during the 1 second this
> > noise occurs, the engine seems to run rough. There is a vibration
> > thru the body, then, it comes good as the lifters go quiet.
>
> Odd.
>
> > My Q is, do some lifters when lacking oil-pressure, allow the valve
> > to only open a little bit ?
>
> Generally, yes. As valve lash is controlled by the amount of oil that
> makes it into the lifter to "pump it up", if it's not getting enough it
> will create an increased valve clearance which will ultimately lead to a
> reduced valve lift.

Roger...

[Jason James]

On Thursday, December 4, 2014 12:06:10 PM UTC+11, Noddy wrote:

> On 04/12/14 9:30 AM, Jason James wrote:
>
> > The ED HLifters are prolly original and make a clacking sound as
> > oil-pressure rises to normal. Thing is, during the 1 second this
> > noise occurs, the engine seems to run rough. There is a vibration
> > thru the body, then, it comes good as the lifters go quiet.
>
> Odd.

My second name...

> > My Q is, do some lifters when lacking oil-pressure, allow the valve
> > to only open a little bit ?
>
> Generally, yes. As valve lash is controlled by the amount of oil that
> makes it into the lifter to "pump it up", if it's not getting enough it
> will create an increased valve clearance which will ultimately lead to a
> reduced valve lift.
>
> > IOW, does the engine actually run with
> > some cylinders not firing due reduced valve opening ?
>
> It would have to be a massively reduced valve opening for a cylinder to
> not fire, and it'd sound more like a hammering than a simple clacking.

It aint that then.

> > My first inclination is to say No,..but I cant think of why the
> > engine runs rough for a sec,...unless something else is happening
> > like low inj fuel-rail pressure.
>
> As usual it's awfully difficult to tell without hearing/seeing it
> yourself, but if it's *just* a bit of clacky lifter noise while it's
> waiting to get oil pressure that normally *won't* cause the problems
> you've described.

Yeah,..I thought the OHC may have introduced different factors compared to pushrods. The cam lobes press onto the rocker arm with the HL on one end and the valve-tip on the other. If the HL collapses, the lobe force is used to bottom the lifter with not much left to operate the valve ?

> It sounds like it has a separate issue going on.

Maybe poor initial mixture.

> > To boot, I've had a CM Val which had been left with bad lifters for
> > years, and it wasn't missing at all despite the engine sounding
> > feral.
>
> They generally don't.
>
> You don't need much in the way of excess clearance for valve train noise
> to be apparent. A couple of thousandths is plenty to make "clack" a
> reality, and about all it will do if left unchecked will be to mushroom
> the ends of the valve stems.
>
> It won't make the engine misfire.

Ta,..Jason

[Noddy]

On 04/12/14 7:38 PM, Jason James wrote:

> Yeah,..I thought the OHC may have introduced different factors
> compared to pushrods. The cam lobes press onto the rocker arm with
> the HL on one end and the valve-tip on the other.

No, they're not like that.

The rocker arms have a roller at one end and a hydraulic lash adjuster
(and assorted crap) at the other. They look like this:

> http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c389/dasgib/index_zps8a64ce9b.jpg

The rockers are shaft mounted, and they sit above the camshaft with the
roller riding over the lobe. The lash adjuster at the other end sits
directly on the valve stem tip.

The camshaft itself runs in a conventional tunnel with the exception of
their being no top caps. Rather, it has a series of loose fitting
saddles that act as "legs" to hold the rocker gear together. It's a very
unconventional arrangement, but it's Ford's solution to the problem of a
very long cylinder head that likes to move around a lot with heat.

Initial testing of the engine showed that when fitted with regular top
cam tunnel caps the head moved around too much to maintain a parallel
cam bore, and the cam would lock up in it's bore as the head moved
around and the bore went out of plane. Ford couldn't find a solution to
the head movement problem (or, at least one that wasn't free), so they
simply removed the top cam caps and let the cam find it's own happy
place whenever the head warped with heat.

> If the HL collapses, the lobe force is used to bottom the lifter with not much
> left to operate the valve ?

Sort of.

The valve will still operate, as the lash adjuster travel is less than
the lift profile of the cam lobe, and the rocker arm multiplies the lobe
lift by 1.5 times.

> Maybe poor initial mixture.

Impossible to say from this end. Sorry.




--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Xeno]

On 4/12/2014 7:29 PM, Jason James wrote:
> On Thursday, December 4, 2014 12:06:10 PM UTC+11, Noddy wrote:
>> On 04/12/14 9:30 AM, Jason James wrote:
>>
>>> The ED HLifters are prolly original and make a clacking sound as
>>> oil-pressure rises to normal. Thing is, during the 1 second this
>>> noise occurs, the engine seems to run rough. There is a vibration
>>> thru the body, then, it comes good as the lifters go quiet.
>>
>> Odd.
>>
>>> My Q is, do some lifters when lacking oil-pressure, allow the valve
>>> to only open a little bit ?
>>
>> Generally, yes. As valve lash is controlled by the amount of oil that
>> makes it into the lifter to "pump it up", if it's not getting enough it
>> will create an increased valve clearance which will ultimately lead to a
>> reduced valve lift.
>
> Roger...
>

More like vague bullshit.

Lifters do not get pumped up by the "amount" of oil that "makes it into
the lifter" It should always have oil in it and be full.

http://tinyurl.com/oqf3qtb

Note the diagram at the above URL...

It shows the construction of a typical hydraulic lifter. Note the spring
which pushes the plunger up to the top of its free travel to take up any
clearance. Note that in normal operation, the plunger and associated
socket will not be in contact with the circlip that retains it.

Oil under pressure from the gallery can flow through the oil passage in
to the annular space between the lifter body and the plunger. It can
then pass through the "oiling hole" and enter the centre of the plunger.
Note that the centre of the plunger is hollow and forms a reservoir of oil.

The oil can then flow into the lower chamber through the check ball and
spring. The check ball acts as a one way valve. Oil can enter through
the check valve but cannot flow in the reverse direction. This is an
important point.

Another important point to note here is that you *always* have oil in
the lifter even when the engine is not running. To open the valve, the
oil in the lower section, being unable to exit through the closed check
valve, will act as a "hydraulic lock" and lift the valve off its seat as
the lifter rises up on the cam.

In describing the operation of the lifter, lets for a moment assume that
initially the lifter is on the downward stroke and we have excessive
clearance at the valve.

When the lifter returns to its lowest position, the plunger, pushrod and
rocker will become stationary as the valve closes onto its seat. The
body of the lifter however will continue to move under pressure from the
plunger return spring until it reaches the end of its travel, limited by
the heel of the cam. The relative movement between the plunger and the
lifter body results in a low pressure being formed in the oil in the
chamber below the plunger. This creates a pressure differential between
the upper and lower chambers. This pressure difference will force a
quantity of oil from the upper chamber into the lower chamber, opening
the check ball against its spring in doing so. As the pressure in the
two chambers equalises, and this is an important point, the check ball
will be reseated by its spring.

As the cam starts to raise the lifter unit, the check ball, now
reseated, traps oil in the lower chamber creating, in effect, a solid
valve lifter which can then open the valve. The excessive valve
clearance has now been taken up by the oil which entered the lower
chamber. From this point on, the valve will run at zero lash.

To ensure that the hydraulic lifter cannot "pump up" to the extent of
holding the valve open and to make sure the valve returns positively to
its seat, a calculated amount of oil is allowed to escape between the
lifter body and the plunger. This is known as "leak down". Oil thus
escaping is continually being replaced by fresh oil from the gallery
entering the lower chamber as described above.

Now, to address your issue, when an engine is not running, some valves
may end up on the high point of a cam and remain open. The pressure of
the valve spring, over time, will cause leak down and the plunger will
come to rest at the bottom of its travel. You would think that this
would mean that the valve will have excessive clearance on engine
startup. Not so. As the engine begins to rotate, the lifter will come
off the cam and the valve will close. As I have described earlier, the
pressure differential between the two chambers will cause oil to flow
from the reservoir in the upper chamber and into the lower chamber and
take up the excessive clearance. The lifter does NOT need to wait for
oil pressure to build up in the lubrication system. The oil reservoir
inside the plunger has sufficient oil available so that on the very
first rise of the cam, all of the excessive clearance has been taken up
and the valve should operate as normal. The annular space around the
outside of the plunger also ensures that the lifter has continuous
access to the oil gallery and the oil therein no matter what position it
is in.

Note too on the example diagram that the push rod cup in the lifter has
a hole in it and a "metering disc" under it. This serves two purposes;
it allows a continuous flow of oil into and through the maain lifter
body as an aid to cooling and also provides oil to the overhead gear,
the rockers, etc. This is what the L6 Holdens have. The metering disc
prevents an excess of oil reaching the overhead gear.

The way I see it then is that you have potentially a faulty/sticking
check valve or a sticky plunger.

With the first, if the check valve does not seat correctly, some oil in
the lower plunger chamber may be lost on the rise of the lifter during
cranking resulting in unwanted clearance at the valve. This situation
may, or may not, come good at RPM higher than cranking speeds.

The other might be a sticky or gummed up plunger that isn't being pushed
back by the spring effectively so taking some time to get to its correct
position. If you haven't owned the car from new, you cannot be sure if
it has been serviced correctly so it may have gum and varnish in the
lifters.

Air in the oil feed can also cause issues with hydraulic lifters but
that will usually result in a more continuous noise. Yours is only on
startup for a second or two so I suspect a sticky lifter not allowing it
to refill the lower chamber as quickly as required.

Whether you worry about it is up to you. Don't know what specific
processes are involved in testing the lifters on an ED but I imagine it
wouldn't be all that much different to lifters on earlier Holdens and
Falcons. Without any test gear like the one below, it would be difficult
to test them properly. If they are designed to be dismantled, they
aren't all that difficult to strip and clean out.

http://tinyurl.com/n8t4ylg

A complete set of new lifters isn't all that dear on EBay, ~$80, so it
might not even be worth cleaning and testing them.

--

Xeno.

[Jason James]

On Thursday, December 4, 2014 8:59:20 PM UTC+11, Noddy wrote:
> On 04/12/14 7:38 PM, Jason James wrote:
>
> > Yeah,..I thought the OHC may have introduced different factors
> > compared to pushrods. The cam lobes press onto the rocker arm with
> > the HL on one end and the valve-tip on the other.
>
> No, they're not like that.
>
> The rocker arms have a roller at one end and a hydraulic lash adjuster
> (and assorted crap) at the other. They look like this:
>
> > http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c389/dasgib/index_zps8a64ce9b.jpg
>
> The rockers are shaft mounted, and they sit above the camshaft with the
> roller riding over the lobe. The lash adjuster at the other end sits
> directly on the valve stem tip.

Little different to a pushrod system,..I sure ballsed that up..

> The camshaft itself runs in a conventional tunnel with the exception of
> their being no top caps. Rather, it has a series of loose fitting
> saddles that act as "legs" to hold the rocker gear together. It's a very
> unconventional arrangement, but it's Ford's solution to the problem of a
> very long cylinder head that likes to move around a lot with heat.
>
> Initial testing of the engine showed that when fitted with regular top
> cam tunnel caps the head moved around too much to maintain a parallel
> cam bore, and the cam would lock up in it's bore as the head moved
> around and the bore went out of plane. Ford couldn't find a solution to
> the head movement problem (or, at least one that wasn't free), so they
> simply removed the top cam caps and let the cam find it's own happy
> place whenever the head warped with heat.

Cutting off their nose to spite their face again :-(

>
> > If the HL collapses, the lobe force is used to bottom the lifter with not much
> > left to operate the valve ?
>
> Sort of.
>
> The valve will still operate, as the lash adjuster travel is less than
> the lift profile of the cam lobe, and the rocker arm multiplies the lobe
> lift by 1.5 times.
>
> > Maybe poor initial mixture.
>
> Impossible to say from this end. Sorry.

Tks for that. I hadn't seen an engine do this,..and it goes to show that there's always one left up the sleeve.

Jason

[Noddy]

On 05/12/14 6:33 AM, Jason James wrote:

> Cutting off their nose to spite their face again :-(

I think it was more a case of doing is as cheaply as possible.

--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Clocky]

On 4/12/2014 6:30 AM, Jason James wrote:
> The ED HLifters are prolly original and make a clacking sound as oil-pressure rises to normal. Thing is, during the 1 second this noise occurs, the engine seems to run rough. There is a vibration thru the body, then, it comes good as the lifters go quiet.
>


> My Q is, do some lifters when lacking oil-pressure, allow the valve to only open a little bit ? IOW, does the engine actually run with some cylinders not firing due reduced valve opening ?
>

I wouldn't think so though if the cam/rockers et al are worn you might
get that situation. How many k's on the engine?

> My first inclination is to say No,..but I cant think of why the engine runs rough for a sec,...unless something else is happening like low inj fuel-rail pressure.

Is it only when cold, standing for a few hours? Could be dribbling
injectors, leaking into the combustion chamber and on initial start
could cause a misfire until it clears. The lifter noise is more likely
to be coincidental, or the lifter noise is really injector noise.

[Jason James]

On Friday, December 5, 2014 10:31:02 AM UTC+11, Clocky wrote:
> On 4/12/2014 6:30 AM, Jason James wrote:
> > The ED HLifters are prolly original and make a clacking sound as oil-pressure rises to normal. Thing is, during the 1 second this noise occurs, the engine seems to run rough. There is a vibration thru the body, then, it comes good as the lifters go quiet.
> >
>
>
> > My Q is, do some lifters when lacking oil-pressure, allow the valve to only open a little bit ? IOW, does the engine actually run with some cylinders not firing due reduced valve opening ?
> >
>
> I wouldn't think so though if the cam/rockers et al are worn you might
> get that situation. How many k's on the engine?

220,000ks.

> > My first inclination is to say No,..but I cant think of why the engine runs rough for a sec,...unless something else is happening like low inj fuel-rail pressure.
>
> Is it only when cold, standing for a few hours? Could be dribbling
> injectors, leaking into the combustion chamber and on initial start
> could cause a misfire until it clears. The lifter noise is more likely
> to be coincidental, or the lifter noise is really injector noise.

It only happens first thing in the mornings. All is quiet from then, save one low volume light knock from a lifter I assume.
I'm familiar with inj noise. It's a very light ticking noise.

The leaking inj theory would fit I guess, if they are original,..which I'd say they are, like most things with the car.

Jason,..ta for the comments.

[Jason James]

On Thursday, December 4, 2014 11:06:12 PM UTC+11, Xeno wrote:
> On 4/12/2014 7:29 PM, Jason James wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 4, 2014 12:06:10 PM UTC+11, Noddy wrote:
> >> On 04/12/14 9:30 AM, Jason James wrote:
> >>
> >>> The ED HLifters are prolly original and make a clacking sound as
> >>> oil-pressure rises to normal. Thing is, during the 1 second this
> >>> noise occurs, the engine seems to run rough. There is a vibration
> >>> thru the body, then, it comes good as the lifters go quiet.
> >>
> >> Odd.
> >>
> >>> My Q is, do some lifters when lacking oil-pressure, allow the valve
> >>> to only open a little bit ?
> >>
> >> Generally, yes. As valve lash is controlled by the amount of oil that
> >> makes it into the lifter to "pump it up", if it's not getting enough it
> >> will create an increased valve clearance which will ultimately lead to a
> >> reduced valve lift.
> >
> > Roger...
> >
> More like vague bullshit.
>
> Lifters do not get pumped up by the "amount" of oil that "makes it into
> the lifter" It should always have oil in it and be full.

Sure if they are low mileage. That initial start on higher mileage donks demonstrates the empty lifter state :-)

> http://tinyurl.com/oqf3qtb
>
> Note the diagram at the above URL...
>
> It shows the construction of a typical hydraulic lifter. Note the spring
> which pushes the plunger up to the top of its free travel to take up any
> clearance. Note that in normal operation, the plunger and associated
> socket will not be in contact with the circlip that retains it.
>
> Oil under pressure from the gallery can flow through the oil passage in
> to the annular space between the lifter body and the plunger. It can
> then pass through the "oiling hole" and enter the centre of the plunger.
> Note that the centre of the plunger is hollow and forms a reservoir of oil.
>
> The oil can then flow into the lower chamber through the check ball and
> spring. The check ball acts as a one way valve. Oil can enter through
> the check valve but cannot flow in the reverse direction. This is an
> important point.

Tks,..this is greater detail on how I roughly knew their function...

> Another important point to note here is that you *always* have oil in
> the lifter even when the engine is not running. To open the valve, the
> oil in the lower section, being unable to exit through the closed check
> valve, will act as a "hydraulic lock" and lift the valve off its seat as
> the lifter rises up on the cam.

Yes, but again, wear will see things like the valve not work perfectly.

> In describing the operation of the lifter, lets for a moment assume that
> initially the lifter is on the downward stroke and we have excessive
> clearance at the valve.
>
> When the lifter returns to its lowest position, the plunger, pushrod and
> rocker will become stationary as the valve closes onto its seat. The
> body of the lifter however will continue to move under pressure from the
> plunger return spring until it reaches the end of its travel, limited by
> the heel of the cam. The relative movement between the plunger and the
> lifter body results in a low pressure being formed in the oil in the
> chamber below the plunger. This creates a pressure differential between
> the upper and lower chambers. This pressure difference will force a
> quantity of oil from the upper chamber into the lower chamber, opening
> the check ball against its spring in doing so. As the pressure in the
> two chambers equalises, and this is an important point, the check ball
> will be reseated by its spring.
>
> As the cam starts to raise the lifter unit, the check ball, now
> reseated, traps oil in the lower chamber creating, in effect, a solid
> valve lifter which can then open the valve. The excessive valve
> clearance has now been taken up by the oil which entered the lower
> chamber. From this point on, the valve will run at zero lash.

I think I follow this :-)

Tks for going to the trouble to explain their operation and the possible cause of the problem. I'll prolly wait until the sole noisy one [after warm-up] gets worse, then replace all of them.

>
> http://tinyurl.com/n8t4ylg
>
> A complete set of new lifters isn't all that dear on EBay, ~$80, so it
> might not even be worth cleaning and testing them.

Theyve always been ínexpensive for American based cars IME, tho the Canadian replacements have not been that quiet,..but quiet enough.

[Noddy]

On 06/12/14 7:47 AM, Jason James wrote:

>> Lifters do not get pumped up by the "amount" of oil that "makes it into
>> the lifter" It should always have oil in it and be full.
>
> Sure if they are low mileage. That initial start on higher mileage donks demonstrates the empty lifter state :-)

It does indeed.

>> http://tinyurl.com/oqf3qtb
>>
>> Note the diagram at the above URL...
>>
>> It shows the construction of a typical hydraulic lifter. Note the spring
>> which pushes the plunger up to the top of its free travel to take up any
>> clearance. Note that in normal operation, the plunger and associated
>> socket will not be in contact with the circlip that retains it.
>>
>> Oil under pressure from the gallery can flow through the oil passage in
>> to the annular space between the lifter body and the plunger. It can
>> then pass through the "oiling hole" and enter the centre of the plunger.
>> Note that the centre of the plunger is hollow and forms a reservoir of oil.
>>
>> The oil can then flow into the lower chamber through the check ball and
>> spring. The check ball acts as a one way valve. Oil can enter through
>> the check valve but cannot flow in the reverse direction. This is an
>> important point.
>
> Tks,..this is greater detail on how I roughly knew their function...

Too bad it's a load of crap :)

*All* hydraulic lifters or lash adjusters bleed down, and it's part of
their design spec. They need to meet a minimum "hold spec" in seconds to
be considered fit for service, and just about every manufacturer has a
procedure for testing them.

Typical allowable bleed down times range from 5 to 60 seconds, and it is
advised that lifters or lash adjusters that *exceed* the maximum bleed
down time are to be discarded.

>> Another important point to note here is that you *always* have oil in
>> the lifter even when the engine is not running. To open the valve, the
>> oil in the lower section, being unable to exit through the closed check
>> valve, will act as a "hydraulic lock" and lift the valve off its seat as
>> the lifter rises up on the cam.
>
> Yes, but again, wear will see things like the valve not work perfectly.

The valves are also *not* a permanent seal.

They're designed to hold enough pressure to keep the lifter/lash
adjuster energised while the oil pump is operating and nothing more. the
fact that some hold pressure for much longer than this is an accident of
their design. Not a deliberate part of the design itself.

>> As the cam starts to raise the lifter unit, the check ball, now
>> reseated, traps oil in the lower chamber creating, in effect, a solid
>> valve lifter which can then open the valve. The excessive valve
>> clearance has now been taken up by the oil which entered the lower
>> chamber. From this point on, the valve will run at zero lash.
>
> I think I follow this :-)

*Please* don't listen to this fucking idiot, as he doesn't know his
testicles from a set of Christmas tree baubles and is only confusing you.

This moron is a Google queen who, when he was last here as "Krypsis"
claimed that he'd seen a sump explosion that blew the sump clean off an
engine while leaving all the bolts intact.

This is a guy who posted a picture of a Morris Marina with twin pot
brake callipers with 5 stud rotors fitted and claimed that they all had
them when if he's actually spent "years working on them" as he claimed
he did he should have known that they most definitely did not.

This is the guy who reckons he taught "welding" in a non existent
"welding shop" and who by his own admission has no formal welding
qualifications other than the 5 minutes of instruction he received while
allegedly working as a mechanic's apprentice.

The guy is an *idiot*, and a compulsive *liar* who will tell you
whatever he wants to in order to satisfy his own egotistical need. He
has absolutely *no* fucking idea what he's talking about, and listening
to him will only lead you straight up the garden path.

> Tks for going to the trouble to explain their operation and the possible cause of the problem.

I think you mean "thanks for the cut and paste job" :)

> I'll prolly wait until the sole noisy one [after warm-up] gets worse, then replace all of them.

If you decide to do that, then either invest in a workshop manual or ask
here for the proper initial bleed procedure that needs to be performed
before they're run for the first time.

It's not difficult, but if you don't do it you'll fuck the engine.

> Theyve always been ínexpensive for American based cars IME, tho the Canadian replacements have not been that quiet,..but quiet enough.

In many cases people replace lifters looking to fix a noise caused be a
worn cam lobe, and then blame the replacement lifters when they don't
make a difference.





--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Jonz]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Translation : "Listen to me (numby) instead, as i am the recognised
"fucking idiot" around here.....

>
> This moron is a Google queen who, when he was last here as "Krypsis"
> claimed that he'd seen a sump explosion that blew the sump clean off an
> engine while leaving all the bolts intact.
>
> This is a guy who posted a picture of a Morris Marina with twin pot
> brake callipers with 5 stud rotors fitted and claimed that they all had
> them when if he's actually spent "years working on them" as he claimed
> he did he should have known that they most definitely did not.
>
> This is the guy who reckons he taught "welding" in a non existent
> "welding shop" and who by his own admission has no formal welding
> qualifications other than the 5 minutes of instruction he received while
> allegedly working as a mechanic's apprentice.
>
> The guy is an *idiot*, and a compulsive *liar* who will tell you
> whatever he wants to in order to satisfy his own egotistical need. He
> has absolutely *no* fucking idea what he's talking about, and listening
> to him will only lead you straight up the garden path.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
See above.

>
>> Tks for going to the trouble to explain their operation and the
>> possible cause of the problem.
>
> I think you mean "thanks for the cut and paste job" :)
>
>> I'll prolly wait until the sole noisy one [after warm-up] gets worse,
>> then replace all of them.
>
> If you decide to do that, then either invest in a workshop manual or ask
> here for the proper initial bleed procedure that needs to be performed
> before they're run for the first time.
>
> It's not difficult, but if you don't do it you'll fuck the engine.
>
>> Theyve always been ínexpensive for American based cars IME, tho the
>> Canadian replacements have not been that quiet,..but quiet enough.
>
> In many cases people replace lifters looking to fix a noise caused be a
> worn cam lobe, and then blame the replacement lifters when they don't
> make a difference.
>
>
>
>
>


--

“Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea -- massive,
difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of
mind-boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it.”
―Gene Spafford

[Clocky]

On 6/12/2014 4:26 AM, Jason James wrote:
> On Friday, December 5, 2014 10:31:02 AM UTC+11, Clocky wrote:
>> On 4/12/2014 6:30 AM, Jason James wrote:
>>> The ED HLifters are prolly original and make a clacking sound as oil-pressure rises to normal. Thing is, during the 1 second this noise occurs, the engine seems to run rough. There is a vibration thru the body, then, it comes good as the lifters go quiet.
>>>
>>
>>
>>> My Q is, do some lifters when lacking oil-pressure, allow the valve to only open a little bit ? IOW, does the engine actually run with some cylinders not firing due reduced valve opening ?
>>>
>>
>> I wouldn't think so though if the cam/rockers et al are worn you might
>> get that situation. How many k's on the engine?
>
> 220,000ks.
>

In that case there is a chance that the valve train has seen better
days. You could just have a weak lifter, worn rocker assembly or cam or
a combination thereof. Without an inspection you can't really tell.

>
>>> My first inclination is to say No,..but I cant think of why the engine runs rough for a sec,...unless something else is happening like low inj fuel-rail pressure.
>>
>> Is it only when cold, standing for a few hours? Could be dribbling
>> injectors, leaking into the combustion chamber and on initial start
>> could cause a misfire until it clears. The lifter noise is more likely
>> to be coincidental, or the lifter noise is really injector noise.
>
> It only happens first thing in the mornings. All is quiet from then, save one low volume light knock from a lifter I assume.
> I'm familiar with inj noise. It's a very light ticking noise.
>

Yes, when they are working properly but they can develop a loud tick. If
an injector gets to that stage I doubt it would quiten up in a second
however, so I concur that the noise is likely valve train.

> The leaking inj theory would fit I guess, if they are original,..which I'd say they are, like most things with the car.
>
> Jason,..ta for the comments.
>

Is it really an issue worth worrying about?

If it were my car and I really wanted to know what it was I would
probably isolate the issue.

For one, I would run the vehicle for a good while so it's nice and hot
and the cooling system is up to pressure, then disconnect the injectors
and or pull the EFI fuse, whatever it takes to make sure the injectors
don't fire and the ignition system is disabled next time you crank it
over. Leave overnight and in the morning remove the spark plugs and
place cardboard over the plug holes and crank it for a dozen or so
rotations.

Also note any noise whilst cranking. Any ticking that is audible
certainly won't be coming from an injector because they are disconnected.

What you find on the cardboard should clarify what is going on in terms
injector leakage - how much and which one(s), or even coolant weepage
into a cylinder causing a misfire on cold start which can't be
discounted on those engines.

[Xeno]

On 6/12/2014 9:46 AM, Noddy wrote:
> On 06/12/14 7:47 AM, Jason James wrote:
>
>>> Lifters do not get pumped up by the "amount" of oil that "makes it into
>>> the lifter" It should always have oil in it and be full.
>>
>> Sure if they are low mileage. That initial start on higher mileage
>> donks demonstrates the empty lifter state :-)
>
> It does indeed.

It does not at all! Please explain, if you will, how the lifter could
possibly empty itself of oil. Even better, please explain how, in normal
circumstances, air could get INTO the lifter!

I know of only one or, possibly, two circumstances where this could
occur. The obvious one would be an air leak on the intake side of the
oil pump allowing air to enter the system. What that would cause is air
being pumped into the lifter along with the oil. The issue here though
is that would cause continuous lifter noise problems. They would not go
away after a second or two. The other is aeration of the oil, a very
rare circumstance. If the correct oil is used and is changed regularly,
this shouldn't be an issue. One possibility that could cause aeration of
the oil is crankcase windage. All sumps so affected have windage plates
so, again, this shouldn't be an issue.

All you are demonstrating is your distinct lack of knowledge of hydraulics.

>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/oqf3qtb
>>>
>>> Note the diagram at the above URL...
>>>
>>> It shows the construction of a typical hydraulic lifter. Note the spring
>>> which pushes the plunger up to the top of its free travel to take up any
>>> clearance. Note that in normal operation, the plunger and associated
>>> socket will not be in contact with the circlip that retains it.
>>>
>>> Oil under pressure from the gallery can flow through the oil passage in
>>> to the annular space between the lifter body and the plunger. It can
>>> then pass through the "oiling hole" and enter the centre of the plunger.
>>> Note that the centre of the plunger is hollow and forms a reservoir
>>> of oil.
>>>
>>> The oil can then flow into the lower chamber through the check ball and
>>> spring. The check ball acts as a one way valve. Oil can enter through
>>> the check valve but cannot flow in the reverse direction. This is an
>>> important point.
>>
>> Tks,..this is greater detail on how I roughly knew their function...
>
> Too bad it's a load of crap :)

Would you like to refer to Chapter 2 of the publication, "A Collection
Of Nine Automotive Topics" published by the VACC. It covers the topic
quite well. Even you should be able to understand it! Well, OK, maybe
not! I have had to add a few points to clarify a few situations not as
well covered by the publication.

>
> *All* hydraulic lifters or lash adjusters bleed down, and it's part of
> their design spec. They need to meet a minimum "hold spec" in seconds to
> be considered fit for service, and just about every manufacturer has a
> procedure for testing them.

Not in dispute, part of normal operation.

>
> Typical allowable bleed down times range from 5 to 60 seconds, and it is
> advised that lifters or lash adjusters that *exceed* the maximum bleed
> down time are to be discarded.

Again, that point is not in dispute. You are trying to shift the issue
here...

>
>>> Another important point to note here is that you *always* have oil in
>>> the lifter even when the engine is not running. To open the valve, the
>>> oil in the lower section, being unable to exit through the closed check
>>> valve, will act as a "hydraulic lock" and lift the valve off its seat as
>>> the lifter rises up on the cam.
>>
>> Yes, but again, wear will see things like the valve not work perfectly.
>
> The valves are also *not* a permanent seal.

Assuming you mean the check valve in the lifter, was anybody saying they
were?

>
> They're designed to hold enough pressure to keep the lifter/lash
> adjuster energised while the oil pump is operating and nothing more. the
> fact that some hold pressure for much longer than this is an accident of
> their design. Not a deliberate part of the design itself.

You really don't understand hydraulics, do you? They are a ONE WAY
VALVE. They are designed to hold pressure during the time the VALVE is
held open and allow oil in when they are "off the cam". They are not
designed to hold long term oil pressure in the lower chamber. Why?
Because leak down will take care of any pressure remaining in there
causing a small loss of oil from the lower chamber to the upper chamber
(important point) and that's why you need the valve in there in the
first instance.

>
>>> As the cam starts to raise the lifter unit, the check ball, now
>>> reseated, traps oil in the lower chamber creating, in effect, a solid
>>> valve lifter which can then open the valve. The excessive valve
>>> clearance has now been taken up by the oil which entered the lower
>>> chamber. From this point on, the valve will run at zero lash.
>>
>> I think I follow this :-)
>
> *Please* don't listen to this fucking idiot, as he doesn't know his
> testicles from a set of Christmas tree baubles and is only confusing you.

On the contrary, my detailed explanation was to prevent confusion, not
cause it. Your vitriolic comments are adding nothing to the explanation.

We are awaiting your detailed explanation of hydraulic lifters to prove
YOUR case.

>
> This moron is a Google queen who, when he was last here as "Krypsis"
> claimed that he'd seen a sump explosion that blew the sump clean off an
> engine while leaving all the bolts intact.
>
> This is a guy who posted a picture of a Morris Marina with twin pot
> brake callipers with 5 stud rotors fitted and claimed that they all had
> them when if he's actually spent "years working on them" as he claimed
> he did he should have known that they most definitely did not.

No, that was a rodder retrofit. The 6 cylinder discs are thicker
versions of the 4 cylinder solid discs. I have oft stated I never worked
on the 6 cylinder Marinas. The were, at best, an abortion of a car and I
avoided them.

>
> This is the guy who reckons he taught "welding" in a non existent
> "welding shop" and who by his own admission has no formal welding
> qualifications other than the 5 minutes of instruction he received while
> allegedly working as a mechanic's apprentice.

Yep, taught welding for quite some time at both the Gleadell Street and
Cremorne Street Campuses. Even still got the letter from the HOD stating
that I could no longer teach in the welding shop due to hearing loss
issues detected after one of our regular hearing tests.

>
> The guy is an *idiot*, and a compulsive *liar* who will tell you
> whatever he wants to in order to satisfy his own egotistical need. He

If anyone here has "egotistical needs", it would be you!

> has absolutely *no* fucking idea what he's talking about, and listening
> to him will only lead you straight up the garden path.

An explanation of how lifters operate is going to put Jason up the
garden path? How so? You can't diagnose faults unless you full
understand the operation of the components. Anything else would be
guesswork at best.

>
>> Tks for going to the trouble to explain their operation and the
>> possible cause of the problem.
>
> I think you mean "thanks for the cut and paste job" :)

Er no.... the book I used as a reference is not available on the net in
any way, shape or form. I had to type my explanation out the hard way
and add segments where I felt the VACC explanation was a little lacking
in detail pursuant to the particular points I wished to make.

>
>> I'll prolly wait until the sole noisy one [after warm-up] gets worse,
>> then replace all of them.
>
> If you decide to do that, then either invest in a workshop manual or ask
> here for the proper initial bleed procedure that needs to be performed
> before they're run for the first time.

Easy to do if you have the testing tool. Not so easy without but still
possible.

>
> It's not difficult, but if you don't do it you'll fuck the engine.

Interesting... just exactly how will it damage the engine? They do self
bleed you know! The valves will still open, just a little less than
normal until the lifters bleed and will be a bit noisy until such time
as they bleed out. As always, a little lubrication at assembly will
cater for the short term need until such time that the oil pump
commences normalsupply

>
>> Theyve always been ínexpensive for American based cars IME, tho the
>> Canadian replacements have not been that quiet,..but quiet enough.
>
> In many cases people replace lifters looking to fix a noise caused be a
> worn cam lobe, and then blame the replacement lifters when they don't
> make a difference.
>

Yes Noddy. I would replace the camshaft as well since I would be putting
new lifters on worn cam lobes if I didn't. There would be a mismatch on
the mating surfaces even if the cam lobes themselves weren't worn out.

Note however that Jason's noise only occurs for a second or two on
startup, not continuously. Sort of rules out the camshaft. Still, at
200k+ km, and given Fords history of camshaft issues, I'd be inclined to
replace the camshaft and the lifters at the same time. That's of course
if I would even be bothered by a noisy lifter on startup.


--

Xeno.

[Xeno]

On 6/12/2014 7:47 AM, Jason James wrote:
> On Thursday, December 4, 2014 11:06:12 PM UTC+11, Xeno wrote:
>> On 4/12/2014 7:29 PM, Jason James wrote:
>>> On Thursday, December 4, 2014 12:06:10 PM UTC+11, Noddy wrote:
>>>> On 04/12/14 9:30 AM, Jason James wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The ED HLifters are prolly original and make a clacking sound as
>>>>> oil-pressure rises to normal. Thing is, during the 1 second this
>>>>> noise occurs, the engine seems to run rough. There is a vibration
>>>>> thru the body, then, it comes good as the lifters go quiet.
>>>>
>>>> Odd.
>>>>
>>>>> My Q is, do some lifters when lacking oil-pressure, allow the valve
>>>>> to only open a little bit ?
>>>>
>>>> Generally, yes. As valve lash is controlled by the amount of oil that
>>>> makes it into the lifter to "pump it up", if it's not getting enough it
>>>> will create an increased valve clearance which will ultimately lead to a
>>>> reduced valve lift.
>>>
>>> Roger...
>>>
>> More like vague bullshit.
>>
>> Lifters do not get pumped up by the "amount" of oil that "makes it into
>> the lifter" It should always have oil in it and be full.
>
> Sure if they are low mileage. That initial start on higher mileage donks demonstrates the empty lifter state :-)
>

Think about it for a moment Jason. If you take a good close look at the
diagram of the lifter, you will note that the lifter body resembles a
cup. In the normal upright position, any oil in the "cup" will remain in
there. Oil below the oiling passage cannot and will not "leak out" even
if the oil gallery itself suffers from drainback. Any "leak down" when
the engine is not running merely moves the oil from the lower chamber up
into the upper chamber. leak down of this nature will only occur where a
lifter is on a cam holding a valve open. The pressure of the valve
springs will force the plunger down into the body over time and oil will
"leak down". Again, said oil will only end up in the upper chamber ready
to be drawn back into the lower chamber as the lifter comes off the cam
on initial rotation of the engine.

>
>> http://tinyurl.com/oqf3qtb
>>
>> Note the diagram at the above URL...
>>
>> It shows the construction of a typical hydraulic lifter. Note the spring
>> which pushes the plunger up to the top of its free travel to take up any
>> clearance. Note that in normal operation, the plunger and associated
>> socket will not be in contact with the circlip that retains it.
>>
>> Oil under pressure from the gallery can flow through the oil passage in
>> to the annular space between the lifter body and the plunger. It can
>> then pass through the "oiling hole" and enter the centre of the plunger.
>> Note that the centre of the plunger is hollow and forms a reservoir of oil.
>>
>> The oil can then flow into the lower chamber through the check ball and
>> spring. The check ball acts as a one way valve. Oil can enter through
>> the check valve but cannot flow in the reverse direction. This is an
>> important point.
>
> Tks,..this is greater detail on how I roughly knew their function...
>
>
>> Another important point to note here is that you *always* have oil in
>> the lifter even when the engine is not running. To open the valve, the
>> oil in the lower section, being unable to exit through the closed check
>> valve, will act as a "hydraulic lock" and lift the valve off its seat as
>> the lifter rises up on the cam.
>
> Yes, but again, wear will see things like the valve not work perfectly.

Correct. That was my point. The valve MUST prevent the oil escaping past
its seal and allow pressure to build up, and a "hydraulic lock" to
occur, when the cam starts raising the lifter.

>
>
>> In describing the operation of the lifter, lets for a moment assume that
>> initially the lifter is on the downward stroke and we have excessive
>> clearance at the valve.
>>
>> When the lifter returns to its lowest position, the plunger, pushrod and
>> rocker will become stationary as the valve closes onto its seat. The
>> body of the lifter however will continue to move under pressure from the
>> plunger return spring until it reaches the end of its travel, limited by
>> the heel of the cam. The relative movement between the plunger and the
>> lifter body results in a low pressure being formed in the oil in the
>> chamber below the plunger. This creates a pressure differential between
>> the upper and lower chambers. This pressure difference will force a
>> quantity of oil from the upper chamber into the lower chamber, opening
>> the check ball against its spring in doing so. As the pressure in the
>> two chambers equalises, and this is an important point, the check ball
>> will be reseated by its spring.
>>
>> As the cam starts to raise the lifter unit, the check ball, now
>> reseated, traps oil in the lower chamber creating, in effect, a solid
>> valve lifter which can then open the valve. The excessive valve
>> clearance has now been taken up by the oil which entered the lower
>> chamber. From this point on, the valve will run at zero lash.
>
> I think I follow this :-)

It is basic hydraulics though I note that it's not a field you are
conversant with. That's why I added further explanation to the info in
the VACC book which was my primary source.

That's OK. I have always been a believer in knowing how something
operates is the key to diagnosis. Never was that made more clear to me
than when I was working on hydrauulics on Face Shovels at Newman. Now
those machines had a bloody complex system of hydraulics! ;-) In fact,
most earthmoving machinery relies heavily on hydraulics.

>
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/n8t4ylg
>>
>> A complete set of new lifters isn't all that dear on EBay, ~$80, so it
>> might not even be worth cleaning and testing them.
>
> Theyve always been ínexpensive for American based cars IME, tho the Canadian replacements have not been that quiet,..but quiet enough.
>

I wouldn't be overly concerned at this stage. If the noise becomes
continuous, then I would get a bit more inclined to do something. Until
then, just make sure you use a decent grade of oil, one less prone to
varnish and sludging.

--

Xeno.

[Jason James]

On Saturday, December 6, 2014 1:15:01 PM UTC+11, Andy wrote:

> Jason James wrote:
>
> > To boot, I've had a CM Val which had been left with bad lifters for years,
> > and it wasn't missing at all despite the engine sounding feral.
>

> You and everyone else who owned a Hemi 6 :-)

A well worn Hemi 6 ? They really did sound like a bucket of bolts. but keep going for ages.

Jason

[Noddy]

On 06/12/14 11:06 AM, Jonz wrote:

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Translation : "Listen to me (numby) instead, as i am the recognised
> "fucking idiot" around here.....

Init funny how you claim to be a "spanner twirler", but you neve3r add a
*single* thing of any use to any conversation *ever*.

I guess that's because your claims are just fucking bullshit.


--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Jonz]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
So solly, that dont cut the mustard, SOP.....

[Noddy]

On 06/12/14 7:54 PM, Jonz wrote:

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
> So solly, that dont cut the mustard, SOP.....

Neither does the continual infantile shit you keep coming up with lard
arse. How bout about do the world a favour and contribute something
positive to the group for once, or if that's too hard maybe you should
fuck off to alt.no-life.losers


--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Xeno]

You mean he should copy your continual infantile shit consisting of
nothing more than vitriol and invective? That would be a real useless
contribution to the group!

BTW, have you worked out how to show my that my post on the workings of
hydraulic lifters is bullshit? I'd like to see that!

--

Xeno.

[lindsay]

On 6/12/2014 11:27 PM, Xeno wrote:

> You mean he should copy your continual infantile shit consisting of
> nothing more than vitriol and invective?

Oh, the hypocrisy! :-D

> That would be a real useless
> contribution to the group!

And lets look at Xena's... eg:

> And chasing a killfile for a month is *so mature*, isnt it, Xena;
> Bullshit artist?

"Very mature.." Xena 07/03/14

And then the lying hypocritical big noting bullshit artist uses the
"B"word...

> bullshit?

Here's some bullshit for ya, Xena...:

> I'd like to see that!

Sure! :-D

What is your mythical mates occupation today, xena?
a: THE manager (twice)
b: A manager
c: a senior TO
d: a training manager.

Xena: Bullshit Artist. ..


How's the Coroner's report coming along? "I'll get it" he said. "It'll
be a doodle" he said. Like everything else he said, it's just another lie.

[Xeno]

On 7/12/2014 7:38 AM, lindsay wrote:
> On 6/12/2014 11:27 PM, Xeno wrote:
>
>> You mean he should copy your continual infantile shit consisting of
>> nothing more than vitriol and invective?
>
> Oh, the hypocrisy! :-D
>

Yes, you display a lot of it!

So, are YOU going to assist Noddy in showing me where I am wrong in my
description of how hydraulic lifters operate?

Come on little feller! Help him out with real info and try to get away
from the vitriol and invective that your mind seems so full of.

>> That would be a real useless
>> contribution to the group!

Lindsay posting something other than vitriol and invective?
Now that would be a real contribution to the group!

I don't expect it though. You're simply not capable!
>


--

Xeno.

[lindsay]

On 7/12/2014 8:52 AM, Xeno wrote:
> On 7/12/2014 7:38 AM, lindsay wrote:
>> On 6/12/2014 11:27 PM, Xeno wrote:
>>
>>> You mean he should copy your continual infantile shit consisting of
>>> nothing more than vitriol and invective?
>>
>> Oh, the hypocrisy! :-D
>>
> Yes, you display a lot of it!

no prizes for second, billy bullshit artist.

> So, are YOU going to

laugh at you? As always..:-D


Xena, I dont pretend to know stuff like london fogs, where you ran off
and plagiarised someone elses work. I leave that shit for you to do :-D
You even had to get your answer from a book. No doubt verbatim too...

> I don't expect it though. You're simply not capable!

Xena, You're a proven liar and plagarist. I dont *NEED* to copy others
work, because I'm not a dirty filthy fucking liar like you, who's BTDT",
yet copies others work and claims it as their own. :-D

[Noddy]

On 07/12/14 9:25 AM, lindsay wrote:

> How's the Coroner's report coming along? "I'll get it" he said. "It'll
> be a doodle" he said. Like everything else he said, it's just another lie.

Yep. The bloke has absolutely no fucking shame at all, which is
precisely why I'm not wasting my time getting it. He'll simply ignore
it, despite it making him look like the biggest total fucking loser this
group has ever had.

Fair dinkum. It needs a green needle.


--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Xeno]

On 7/12/2014 9:25 AM, lindsay wrote:
> On 7/12/2014 8:52 AM, Xeno wrote:
>> On 7/12/2014 7:38 AM, lindsay wrote:
>>> On 6/12/2014 11:27 PM, Xeno wrote:
>>>
>>>> You mean he should copy your continual infantile shit consisting of
>>>> nothing more than vitriol and invective?
>>>
>>> Oh, the hypocrisy! :-D
>>>
>> Yes, you display a lot of it!
>
> no prizes for second, billy bullshit artist.
>
>> So, are YOU going to
>
> laugh at you? As always..:-D
>
>
> Xena, I dont pretend to know stuff like london fogs, where you ran off

London fog isn't something that suddenly sprung up out of your arse.
It's been a problem for as long as I can remember and it's been well
publicised in books, film and the media in general.

> and plagiarised someone elses work. I leave that shit for you to do :-D
> You even had to get your answer from a book. No doubt verbatim too...

Nope, go get the book and see for yourself.

>
>> I don't expect it though. You're simply not capable!
>
> Xena, You're a proven liar and plagarist. I dont *NEED* to copy others
> work, because I'm not a dirty filthy fucking liar like you, who's BTDT",
> yet copies others work and claims it as their own. :-D
>
> How's the Coroner's report coming along? "I'll get it" he said. "It'll
> be a doodle" he said. Like everything else he said, it's just another lie.

--

Xeno.

[Xeno]

On 7/12/2014 10:44 AM, Noddy wrote:
> On 07/12/14 9:25 AM, lindsay wrote:
>
>> How's the Coroner's report coming along? "I'll get it" he said. "It'll
>> be a doodle" he said. Like everything else he said, it's just another
>> lie.
>
> Yep. The bloke has absolutely no fucking shame at all, which is
> precisely why I'm not wasting my time getting it. He'll simply ignore
> it, despite it making him look like the biggest total fucking loser this
> group has ever had.

Riggghhhttt!

>
> Fair dinkum. It needs a green needle.
>
>


--

Xeno.

[lindsay]

On 7/12/2014 12:38 PM, Xeno wrote:

>> Xena, I dont pretend to know stuff like london fogs, where you ran off
>
> London fog isn't something that suddenly sprung up out of your arse.

No, not at all, but it appears there's a fair bit of what comes out of
my arse in between your ears, and a fair bit of it dribbles out of your
mouth. The shit where your brain would be must be under pressure, eh
Xena, Bullshit master?

> It's been a problem for as long as I can remember and it's been well
> publicised in books, film and the media in general.

Yep, and you plagiarised someone else's work, nearly word for word,
trying to pass it off as your own musings. You wannabe know-it-all.
Caught out like a fucking thief with their hand in the till...

>> and plagiarised someone elses work. I leave that shit for you to do :-D
>> You even had to get your answer from a book. No doubt verbatim too...
>
> Nope, go get the book and see for yourself.

Nope, go and get fucked, liar.

[Xeno]

On 7/12/2014 2:15 PM, lindsay wrote:
> On 7/12/2014 12:38 PM, Xeno wrote:
>
>>> Xena, I dont pretend to know stuff like london fogs, where you ran off
>>
>> London fog isn't something that suddenly sprung up out of your arse.
>
> No, not at all, but it appears there's a fair bit of what comes out of
> my arse in between your ears, and a fair bit of it dribbles out of your
> mouth. The shit where your brain would be must be under pressure, eh
> Xena, Bullshit master?

Like I said, prove me wrong on my statements with regard to hydraulic
lifters! If, as you (and Noddy) say, I am bullshitting, it should be
easy to catch me out! But you can't, can you?

There's a lot of shit dribbling out of your arse! Ever thought about
wearing a nappy on a full time basis?

>
>> It's been a problem for as long as I can remember and it's been well
>> publicised in books, film and the media in general.
>
> Yep, and you plagiarised someone else's work, nearly word for word,

"Nearly" word for word? Do you understand the concept of "precis"??
Quite obviously not!

> trying to pass it off as your own musings. You wannabe know-it-all.
> Caught out like a fucking thief with their hand in the till...

You don't even understand the concept of plagiarism!

>
>>> and plagiarised someone elses work. I leave that shit for you to do :-D
>>> You even had to get your answer from a book. No doubt verbatim too...
>>
>> Nope, go get the book and see for yourself.
>
> Nope, go and get fucked, liar.

Yep, that's the maximum level you're capable of reaching. You're still
in the shit but you're happy. Small mercies!

>
>>> How's the Coroner's report coming along? "I'll get it" he said. "It'll
>>> be a doodle" he said. Like everything else he said, it's just another
>>> lie.
>

--

Xeno

[Lindsay]

On 7/12/2014 2:36 PM, Xeno wrote:
> On 7/12/2014 2:15 PM, lindsay wrote:
>> On 7/12/2014 12:38 PM, Xeno wrote:
>>
>>>> Xena, I dont pretend to know stuff like london fogs, where you ran off
>>>
>>> London fog isn't something that suddenly sprung up out of your arse.
>>
>> No, not at all, but it appears there's a fair bit of what comes out of
>> my arse in between your ears, and a fair bit of it dribbles out of your
>> mouth. The shit where your brain would be must be under pressure, eh
>> Xena, Bullshit master?
>
> Like I said, prove me wrong on my statements with regard to hydraulic
> lifters!

Like I said, go and get fucked! I know nothing about hydraulics except
the absolute basics, like the fill level on my tractor....

> If, as you (and Noddy) say, I am bullshitting, it should be
> easy to catch me out! But you can't, can you?

You're fucking joking. Aren't you? AREN'T YOU?

Show me where I said you were bullshitting about hydraulics?

But you can't, can you?

Xena, You're a proven liar. You've just about made a career out of it in
here. You "may" say something that's the truth that you've copied out of
some book, but like the London smog plagiarism episode, you cant be
trusted to say anything truthful that are YOUR words.

Go read about the Boy Who Cried Wolf. You'll find it on your home page:
Google.

> There's a lot of shit dribbling out of your arse!

Um, thats what it's supposed to do. It's possibly the curry I had for
dinner. I know I suggested shit comes out of your mouth under pressure,
but if it comes out of my arse, then I'm happy, as it's supposed to.
Surely, a thing of your superior knowledge who professes to know about
everything providing Google is on-line, would know that an arsehole is
an exit..

Oh, Sorry. I forgot. :-D

No prizes for second, Xena. :-D

> Ever thought about
> wearing a nappy on a full time basis?

Lol... What a ripper, Xena! :-D

>>> It's been a problem for as long as I can remember and it's been well
>>> publicised in books, film and the media in general.
>>
>> Yep, and you plagiarised someone else's work, nearly word for word,
>
> "Nearly" word for word? Do you understand the concept of "precis"??
> Quite obviously not!

Dont bother trying to get out of it, Xena. The dictionary and your
actions proves you as a plagiarist.

>> trying to pass it off as your own musings. You wannabe know-it-all.
>> Caught out like a fucking thief with their hand in the till...
>
> You don't even understand the concept of plagiarism!

I understand it enough, plagiarist. :-D You got caught like a fucking
thief with his hand in the till.

>>>> and plagiarised someone elses work. I leave that shit for you to do :-D
>>>> You even had to get your answer from a book. No doubt verbatim too...
>>>
>>> Nope, go get the book and see for yourself.
>>
>> Nope, go and get fucked, liar.
>
> Yep, that's the maximum level you're capable of reaching. You're still
> in the shit but you're happy. Small mercies!

Sorry? Where am I "still in the shit"? Why would I want to go and get
some untitled book to look up how tappets work?

How's the Coroners report coming along?

Who's in the shit?

You are, Chucky, you are :-D

[Xeno]

On 7/12/2014 3:20 PM, Lindsay wrote:
> On 7/12/2014 2:36 PM, Xeno wrote:
>> On 7/12/2014 2:15 PM, lindsay wrote:
>>> On 7/12/2014 12:38 PM, Xeno wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Xena, I dont pretend to know stuff like london fogs, where you ran off
>>>>
>>>> London fog isn't something that suddenly sprung up out of your arse.
>>>
>>> No, not at all, but it appears there's a fair bit of what comes out of
>>> my arse in between your ears, and a fair bit of it dribbles out of your
>>> mouth. The shit where your brain would be must be under pressure, eh
>>> Xena, Bullshit master?
>>
>> Like I said, prove me wrong on my statements with regard to hydraulic
>> lifters!
>
> Like I said, go and get fucked! I know nothing about hydraulics except
> the absolute basics, like the fill level on my tractor....

That is not "hydraulics". Seems like you're not wanting to learn either.
Makes me wonder why you are here! prefer to troll maybe?

>
>> If, as you (and Noddy) say, I am bullshitting, it should be
>> easy to catch me out! But you can't, can you?
>
> You're fucking joking. Aren't you? AREN'T YOU?
>
> Show me where I said you were bullshitting about hydraulics?

In that reference, I wasn't indicating hydraulics... That bit was for Noddy.

>
> But you can't, can you?

Wasn't meant to.... learn to comprehend what you read.

>
> Xena, You're a proven liar. You've just about made a career out of it in
> here. You "may" say something that's the truth that you've copied out of
> some book, but like the London smog plagiarism episode, you cant be
> trusted to say anything truthful that are YOUR words.
>
> Go read about the Boy Who Cried Wolf. You'll find it on your home page:
> Google.
>
>> There's a lot of shit dribbling out of your arse!
>
> Um, thats what it's supposed to do. It's possibly the curry I had for

You have curry for EVERY MEAL?

> dinner. I know I suggested shit comes out of your mouth under pressure,
> but if it comes out of my arse, then I'm happy, as it's supposed to.

You ARE supposed to have a modicum of control over it you know!

> Surely, a thing of your superior knowledge who professes to know about
> everything providing Google is on-line, would know that an arsehole is
> an exit..

So why don't you use it and get the hell out of here?

>
> Oh, Sorry. I forgot. :-D
>
> No prizes for second, Xena. :-D

No wonder you never get any!

>
>> Ever thought about
>> wearing a nappy on a full time basis?
>
> Lol... What a ripper, Xena! :-D
>

I thought so! So, have you thought about it? The skid marks are showing
through! ROTFLMFAO

>
>>>> It's been a problem for as long as I can remember and it's been well
>>>> publicised in books, film and the media in general.
>>>
>>> Yep, and you plagiarised someone else's work, nearly word for word,
>>
>> "Nearly" word for word? Do you understand the concept of "precis"??
>> Quite obviously not!
>
> Dont bother trying to get out of it, Xena. The dictionary and your
> actions proves you as a plagiarist.

You use a dictionary? How last century is that?

>
>>> trying to pass it off as your own musings. You wannabe know-it-all.
>>> Caught out like a fucking thief with their hand in the till...
>>
>> You don't even understand the concept of plagiarism!
>
> I understand it enough, plagiarist. :-D You got caught like a fucking
> thief with his hand in the till.

No you don't!

>
>>>>> and plagiarised someone elses work. I leave that shit for you to do
>>>>> :-D
>>>>> You even had to get your answer from a book. No doubt verbatim too...
>>>>
>>>> Nope, go get the book and see for yourself.
>>>
>>> Nope, go and get fucked, liar.
>>
>> Yep, that's the maximum level you're capable of reaching. You're still
>> in the shit but you're happy. Small mercies!
>
> Sorry? Where am I "still in the shit"? Why would I want to go and get

OK, you've never been "out of the shit"! ;-)

> some untitled book to look up how tappets work?

You never know, you might actually learn something. After all, this is
an "automotive forum" and the topics are automotive related. But then,
all you're here for is the trolling.

Anyway, I GAVE the title in a previous post!

Again, just for you, a bear of small brain! The title is;

A Collection of Nine Automotive Technical Topics, VACC.

Sorry, no ISBN number. Probably predated the general issue of same.

>
> How's the Coroners report coming along?

Ask Noddy!

>
> Who's in the shit?

You!

>
> You are, Chucky, you are :-D

Who's "Chucky"? One of your "Brokeback Mountain" bum chums?

>
>>>>> How's the Coroner's report coming along? "I'll get it" he said. "It'll
>>>>> be a doodle" he said. Like everything else he said, it's just another
>>>>> lie.
>

--

Xeno.

[Lindsay]

On 7/12/2014 4:00 PM, Xeno wrote:

>>
>> Like I said, go and get fucked! I know nothing about hydraulics except
>> the absolute basics, like the fill level on my tractor....
>
> That is not "hydraulics".

So, if it's not Hydraulics, what in fucks sake operates the lift and the
remotes?

YOU ARE FUCKING HOPELESS!!!!! Oh God, I cant believe you just said
that... Talk about shooting off your mouth, before putting your
shit-fer-brains in gear...

> Seems like you're not wanting to learn either.

I dont need to. Can a wannabe intellectual giant like yourself
understand that? And especially if it's *YOU* whos the teacher!! :-D

> Makes me wonder why you are here! prefer to troll maybe?

What, Like you're doing right now? me? I' sitting in the study with a
Teachers and coke watching the Supercars, and laughing at you flailing
around like an upside-down helicopter. :-D

And making an even bigger fool of yourself, if thats at all possible. :-D

Sorry, Xena, but thats fucking astonishing. I cant remember when you
said anything as fucking stupid as this in a long time. :-D

>> Show me where I said you were bullshitting about hydraulics?
>
> In that reference, I wasn't indicating hydraulics... That bit was for
> Noddy.

I see, but you picked me (and Noddy) above to answer you. And the
subject says hydraulics.

>> But you can't, can you?
>
> Wasn't meant to.... learn to comprehend what you read.

I reckon you just moved the goalposts :-D

>>
>> Xena, You're a proven liar. You've just about made a career out of it in
>> here. You "may" say something that's the truth that you've copied out of
>> some book, but like the London smog plagiarism episode, you cant be
>> trusted to say anything truthful that are YOUR words.
>>
>> Go read about the Boy Who Cried Wolf. You'll find it on your home page:
>> Google.
>>
>>> There's a lot of shit dribbling out of your arse!
>>
>> Um, thats what it's supposed to do. It's possibly the curry I had for
>
> You have curry for EVERY MEAL?

Dont you read the paper?

>> dinner. I know I suggested shit comes out of your mouth under pressure,
>> but if it comes out of my arse, then I'm happy, as it's supposed to.
>
> You ARE supposed to have a modicum of control over it you know!

I do. When I have to back out a biggie aka a xena, I do have to put in a
bit of effort...

>
>> Surely, a thing of your superior knowledge who professes to know about
>> everything providing Google is on-line, would know that an arsehole is
>> an exit..
>
> So why don't you use it and get the hell out of here?

I was here first, so after you, Billy Bullshit :-)

>> Oh, Sorry. I forgot. :-D
>>
>> No prizes for second, Xena. :-D
>
> No wonder you never get any!

????

>>> "Nearly" word for word? Do you understand the concept of "precis"??
>>> Quite obviously not!
>>
>> Dont bother trying to get out of it, Xena. The dictionary and your
>> actions proves you as a plagiarist.
>
> You use a dictionary? How last century is that?

I think they were around before that. But any on-line will do;
eg: Oxford Dictionary
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/plagiarism

Take a look at the first line, plagiarist.

>>>> trying to pass it off as your own musings. You wannabe know-it-all.
>>>> Caught out like a fucking thief with their hand in the till...
>>>
>>> You don't even understand the concept of plagiarism!
>>
>> I understand it enough, plagiarist. :-D You got caught like a fucking
>> thief with his hand in the till.

>
> No you don't!

Yes, I do. So Nyah! :) You even troll like a fucking girl, Xena....

>>> Yep, that's the maximum level you're capable of reaching. You're still
>>> in the shit but you're happy. Small mercies!
>>
>> Sorry? Where am I "still in the shit"? Why would I want to go and get
>
> OK, you've never been "out of the shit"! ;-)

So you just insinuated something, and have nothing to back it up. See?
You're just a slack fucking lair. useless.

>> some untitled book to look up how tappets work?
>
> You never know, you might actually learn something.

And I may not. Thats of no concern to you or anyone else.

In the meantime, you spout shit and pass it off as your own.

You fucking tin-plated bullshit artist.

After all, this is
> an "automotive forum" and the topics are automotive related. But then,
> all you're here for is the trolling.

So what are you gunna do about it, God? What are you here for, besides
the entertainment? :-D

> Anyway, I GAVE the title in a previous post!
>
> Again, just for you, a bear of small brain! The title is;
>
> A Collection of Nine Automotive Technical Topics, VACC.
>
> Sorry, no ISBN number. Probably predated the general issue of same.

Do you really think I'm gunna go and look it up? Hahahahahahahahahaha

>>
>> How's the Coroners report coming along?
>
> Ask Noddy!

But I'm asking YOU, Bubba. YOU said "I'll get it". It'll be a doodle,
remember? Like everything else, you pass the buck when the heat's on.

>>
>> Who's in the shit?

>> You are, Chucky, you are :-D
>
> Who's "Chucky"? One of your "Brokeback Mountain" bum chums?

Nah, He's the bloke who sells the dildos your tranny "wife" has got
planned for you this evening. Watch out if "she" produces the black one,
you'll have to surrender to that one :-D

"I don't need to get out of town to escape my wife's nagging. maybe if
you knew how to cater to your wife's needs, she wouldn't nag you." Gee,
an admission his "wife" nags him, and then an admission that he doesnt
or cant cater for his "wife's" needs :) xena 20/06/14. Hahahahaha

[Xeno]

On 7/12/2014 4:29 PM, Lindsay wrote:
> On 7/12/2014 4:00 PM, Xeno wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Like I said, go and get fucked! I know nothing about hydraulics except
>>> the absolute basics, like the fill level on my tractor....
>>
>> That is not "hydraulics".
>
>
> So, if it's not Hydraulics, what in fucks sake operates the lift and the
> remotes?

You didn't mention that. Besides, don't need an in-depth knowledge of
hydraulics to "operate" the lift and remotes.

By your own admission, hydraulics is beyond you! You know nothing beyond
fill level plug operation. That, by any definition, isn't very in-depth!

>
> YOU ARE FUCKING HOPELESS!!!!! Oh God, I cant believe you just said
> that... Talk about shooting off your mouth, before putting your
> shit-fer-brains in gear...
>
>> Seems like you're not wanting to learn either.
>
> I dont need to. Can a wannabe intellectual giant like yourself
> understand that? And especially if it's *YOU* whos the teacher!! :-D
>

Can't learn, won't learn! Truly sad!

>
>> Makes me wonder why you are here! prefer to troll maybe?
>
> What, Like you're doing right now? me? I' sitting in the study with a
> Teachers and coke watching the Supercars, and laughing at you flailing
> around like an upside-down helicopter. :-D

Upside down helicopters don't "flail around"....

>
> And making an even bigger fool of yourself, if thats at all possible. :-D
>
> Sorry, Xena, but thats fucking astonishing. I cant remember when you
> said anything as fucking stupid as this in a long time. :-D
>
>
>>> Show me where I said you were bullshitting about hydraulics?
>>
>> In that reference, I wasn't indicating hydraulics... That bit was for
>> Noddy.
>
> I see, but you picked me (and Noddy) above to answer you. And the
> subject says hydraulics.
>

Indeed it does say hydraulics. YOU butted in here with your LACK of
hydraulics knowledge.

>
>>> But you can't, can you?
>>
>> Wasn't meant to.... learn to comprehend what you read.
>
> I reckon you just moved the goalposts :-D

In this, there are no goalposts. I made a post to Jason with regard to
his hydraulic lifters. If you have something to add to that, please do.
Otherwise - but out!

>
>>>
>>> Xena, You're a proven liar. You've just about made a career out of it in
>>> here. You "may" say something that's the truth that you've copied out of
>>> some book, but like the London smog plagiarism episode, you cant be
>>> trusted to say anything truthful that are YOUR words.
>>>
>>> Go read about the Boy Who Cried Wolf. You'll find it on your home page:
>>> Google.
>>>
>>>> There's a lot of shit dribbling out of your arse!
>>>
>>> Um, thats what it's supposed to do. It's possibly the curry I had for
>>
>> You have curry for EVERY MEAL?
>
> Dont you read the paper?

I get it now! It's not the curry at all. It's your sphincter getting a
tad loose because of all the carry on with your bum chum mates up there
on Brokeback Mountain.

>
>>> dinner. I know I suggested shit comes out of your mouth under pressure,
>>> but if it comes out of my arse, then I'm happy, as it's supposed to.
>>
>> You ARE supposed to have a modicum of control over it you know!
>
> I do. When I have to back out a biggie aka a xena, I do have to put in a
> bit of effort...
>

Given your gay little efforts, I reckon you could back out a 2 foot
diameter log with no effort whatsoever! ;-)

>>
>>> Surely, a thing of your superior knowledge who professes to know about
>>> everything providing Google is on-line, would know that an arsehole is
>>> an exit..
>>
>> So why don't you use it and get the hell out of here?
>
> I was here first, so after you, Billy Bullshit :-)

Yes but you're adding nothing useful.

>
>>> Oh, Sorry. I forgot. :-D
>>>
>>> No prizes for second, Xena. :-D
>>
>> No wonder you never get any!
>
> ????

????
>
<snip>

>
>>>> Yep, that's the maximum level you're capable of reaching. You're still
>>>> in the shit but you're happy. Small mercies!
>>>
>>> Sorry? Where am I "still in the shit"? Why would I want to go and get
>>
>> OK, you've never been "out of the shit"! ;-)
>
>
> So you just insinuated something, and have nothing to back it up. See?
> You're just a slack fucking lair. useless.
>
>
>>> some untitled book to look up how tappets work?
>>
>> You never know, you might actually learn something.
>
> And I may not. Thats of no concern to you or anyone else.
>
> In the meantime, you spout shit and pass it off as your own.
>
> You fucking tin-plated bullshit artist.
>

Gold plated!

>
> After all, this is
>> an "automotive forum" and the topics are automotive related. But then,
>> all you're here for is the trolling.
>
> So what are you gunna do about it, God? What are you here for, besides
> the entertainment? :-D

Just let you make a tool of yourself. You are good at that!

>
>> Anyway, I GAVE the title in a previous post!
>>
>> Again, just for you, a bear of small brain! The title is;
>>
>> A Collection of Nine Automotive Technical Topics, VACC.
>>
>> Sorry, no ISBN number. Probably predated the general issue of same.
>
> Do you really think I'm gunna go and look it up? Hahahahahahahahahaha
>

No, I don't! I don't think you are capable of comprehending the contents
anyway. It covers things like - hydraulics! Wooooo..

>>>
>>> How's the Coroners report coming along?
>>
>> Ask Noddy!
>
> But I'm asking YOU, Bubba. YOU said "I'll get it". It'll be a doodle,
> remember? Like everything else, you pass the buck when the heat's on.
>

I am far away. I gave it my best shot, that didn't work as expected. You
go for it! You are LOCAL. You do know what LOCAL means, don't you?

>>>
>>> Who's in the shit?
>
>>> You are, Chucky, you are :-D
>>
>> Who's "Chucky"? One of your "Brokeback Mountain" bum chums?
>
> Nah, He's the bloke who sells the dildos your tranny "wife" has got
> planned for you this evening. Watch out if "she" produces the black one,
> you'll have to surrender to that one :-D

You seem to have intimate knowledge of such matters. Care to elaborate?

On second thought.. don't bother... you're a bit gay!

>
> "I don't need to get out of town to escape my wife's nagging. maybe if
> you knew how to cater to your wife's needs, she wouldn't nag you." Gee,
> an admission his "wife" nags him, and then an admission that he doesnt
> or cant cater for his "wife's" needs :) xena 20/06/14. Hahahahaha
>
>>>>>>> How's the Coroner's report coming along? "I'll get it" he said.
>>>>>>> "It'll
>>>>>>> be a doodle" he said. Like everything else he said, it's just
>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>> lie.
>
>

--

Xeno.

[Lindsay]

On 7/12/2014 6:30 PM, Xeno wrote:
> On 7/12/2014 4:29 PM, Lindsay wrote:
>> On 7/12/2014 4:00 PM, Xeno wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Like I said, go and get fucked! I know nothing about hydraulics except
>>>> the absolute basics, like the fill level on my tractor....
>>>
>>> That is not "hydraulics".
>>
>>
>> So, if it's not Hydraulics, what in fucks sake operates the lift and the
>> remotes?
> You didn't mention that.

You didnt answer the question! :-D I wonder why?.. jesus, do you look
like a fucking moron now :-D Even more than you did before you fucked
up. :-D

> Besides, don't need an in-depth knowledge of
> hydraulics to "operate" the lift and remotes.

Who said I did, retard? :-D I already said I know fuck all about
hydraulics, except the basics. Look above! :-D

Sorry, Xena, You're not gunna drop this one off the radar....

> By your own admission, hydraulics is beyond you! You know nothing beyond
> fill level plug operation. That, by any definition, isn't very in-depth!

Were did I say otherwise, you fucking stupid lying moron?

Yet YOU SAID "THAT IS NOT HYDRAULICS"? hahahah what is it? Steam? Nuclear?

That's enough for today. You've given me a ripper to add to the Xena
Bullshit file.

Filling a hydraulic reservoir on a tractors hydraulics aren't
hydraulics, says Xena. You never cease to amaze me with your moronic
dribble.

hahahahahaha again, Thanks :-D

[Xeno]

On 7/12/2014 6:52 PM, Lindsay wrote:
> On 7/12/2014 6:30 PM, Xeno wrote:
>> On 7/12/2014 4:29 PM, Lindsay wrote:
>>> On 7/12/2014 4:00 PM, Xeno wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Like I said, go and get fucked! I know nothing about hydraulics except
>>>>> the absolute basics, like the fill level on my tractor....
>>>>
>>>> That is not "hydraulics".
>>>
>>>
>>> So, if it's not Hydraulics, what in fucks sake operates the lift and the
>>> remotes?
>> You didn't mention that.
>
> You didnt answer the question! :-D I wonder why?.. jesus, do you look
> like a fucking moron now :-D Even more than you did before you fucked
> up. :-D

The fill level could be the oil level in the gearbox.

>
>> Besides, don't need an in-depth knowledge of
>> hydraulics to "operate" the lift and remotes.
>
> Who said I did, retard? :-D I already said I know fuck all about
> hydraulics, except the basics. Look above! :-D

And you keep proving it. Why stay in this thread?

>
> Sorry, Xena, You're not gunna drop this one off the radar....

I'm sure you aren't! ;-)

>
>> By your own admission, hydraulics is beyond you! You know nothing beyond
>> fill level plug operation. That, by any definition, isn't very in-depth!
>
> Were did I say otherwise, you fucking stupid lying moron?

No, that was my interpretation of your skill level with regard to
hydraulics.

>
> Yet YOU SAID "THAT IS NOT HYDRAULICS"? hahahah what is it? Steam? Nuclear?
>
> That's enough for today. You've given me a ripper to add to the Xena
> Bullshit file.
>
> Filling a hydraulic reservoir on a tractors hydraulics aren't
> hydraulics, says Xena. You never cease to amaze me with your moronic
> dribble.

Make sure you put the correct oil in there!
>
> hahahahahaha again, Thanks :-D
>
>


--

Xeno

[Lindsay]

On 7/12/2014 8:53 PM, Xeno wrote:
> On 7/12/2014 6:52 PM, Lindsay wrote:
>> On 7/12/2014 6:30 PM, Xeno wrote:
>>> On 7/12/2014 4:29 PM, Lindsay wrote:
>>>> On 7/12/2014 4:00 PM, Xeno wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Like I said, go and get fucked! I know nothing about hydraulics
>>>>>> except
>>>>>> the absolute basics, like the fill level on my tractor....
>>>>>
>>>>> That is not "hydraulics".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, if it's not Hydraulics, what in fucks sake operates the lift and
>>>> the
>>>> remotes?
>>> You didn't mention that.
>>
>> You didnt answer the question! :-D I wonder why?.. jesus, do you look
>> like a fucking moron now :-D Even more than you did before you fucked
>> up. :-D
>
> The fill level could be the oil level in the gearbox.

But it's not.

"I know nothing about hydraulics except the absolute basics, like the
fill level on my tractor....

How many hydraulic gearboxes have you found on tractors? I dont see the
mention of a gearbox anywhere? Do you?

hahahah what a fucking wannabe know-it-all...

>>
>>> Besides, don't need an in-depth knowledge of
>>> hydraulics to "operate" the lift and remotes.
>>
>> Who said I did, retard? :-D I already said I know fuck all about
>> hydraulics, except the basics. Look above! :-D
>
> And you keep proving it. Why stay in this thread?

You keep doing 2 things
1: you keep asking me questions
2: You keep making a fool of yourself, and I dont want to miss it :-D

[Xeno]

On 7/12/2014 9:34 PM, Lindsay wrote:
> On 7/12/2014 8:53 PM, Xeno wrote:
>> On 7/12/2014 6:52 PM, Lindsay wrote:
>>> On 7/12/2014 6:30 PM, Xeno wrote:
>>>> On 7/12/2014 4:29 PM, Lindsay wrote:
>>>>> On 7/12/2014 4:00 PM, Xeno wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Like I said, go and get fucked! I know nothing about hydraulics
>>>>>>> except
>>>>>>> the absolute basics, like the fill level on my tractor....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is not "hydraulics".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So, if it's not Hydraulics, what in fucks sake operates the lift and
>>>>> the
>>>>> remotes?
>>>> You didn't mention that.
>>>
>>> You didnt answer the question! :-D I wonder why?.. jesus, do you look
>>> like a fucking moron now :-D Even more than you did before you fucked
>>> up. :-D
>>
>> The fill level could be the oil level in the gearbox.
>
> But it's not.
>
> "I know nothing about hydraulics except the absolute basics, like the
> fill level on my tractor....
>
> How many hydraulic gearboxes have you found on tractors?

Quite a few! Which rock have you been hiding under? Hydrostatic
transmissions for one.... power transmission via fluid...

> I dont see the mention of a gearbox anywhere? Do you?

Every automatic gearbox is pretty much a hydraulically controlled
mechanism - except for recent solenoid controlled beasts and, of course
CVTs. Even a manual gearbox has oil and a method of checking the oil level.

>
> hahahah what a fucking wannabe know-it-all...
>
>>>
>>>> Besides, don't need an in-depth knowledge of
>>>> hydraulics to "operate" the lift and remotes.
>>>
>>> Who said I did, retard? :-D I already said I know fuck all about
>>> hydraulics, except the basics. Look above! :-D
>>
>> And you keep proving it. Why stay in this thread?
>
> You keep doing 2 things
> 1: you keep asking me questions
> 2: You keep making a fool of yourself, and I dont want to miss it :-D
>
>>>
>>> Sorry, Xena, You're not gunna drop this one off the radar....
>>
>> I'm sure you aren't! ;-)
>
>

--

Xeno.

[lindsay]

On 7/12/2014 11:37 PM, Xeno wrote:
> On 7/12/2014 9:34 PM, Lindsay wrote:

>>>>>>>> Like I said, go and get fucked! I know nothing about hydraulics
>>>>>>>> except
>>>>>>>> the absolute basics, like the fill level on my tractor....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is not "hydraulics".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, if it's not Hydraulics, what in fucks sake operates the lift and
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> remotes?
>>>>> You didn't mention that.
>>>>
>>>> You didnt answer the question!

And you *STILL* havent :-D

Just another Xena "I know it all" fuck-up. :-D

:-D I wonder why?.. jesus, do you look
>>>> like a fucking moron now :-D Even more than you did before you fucked
>>>> up. :-D
>>>
>>> The fill level could be the oil level in the gearbox.
>>
>> But it's not.
>>
>> "I know nothing about hydraulics except the absolute basics, like the
>> fill level on my tractor....
>>
>> How many hydraulic gearboxes have you found on tractors?
>
> Quite a few! Which rock have you been hiding under?

I told you ""I know nothing about hydraulics except the absolute basics,

like the fill level on my tractor...."

Cant you understand that? I dont know everything like you, remember?

Hydrostatic
> transmissions for one.... power transmission via fluid...
>
>
>> I dont see the mention of a gearbox anywhere? Do you?
>
> Every automatic gearbox

Mines not automatic, so the rest flushed where it belongs.

[bananas...@gmail.com]

Hi ive been entertained by this forum but have a question to ask.
I have just developed a miss of sorts under ecceleration and have run out of ideas. Im now leaning to the moreys oil that i. Added not long ago and belive that the valves are staying open longer than usual any thoughts? Its a type of shudder on acceleration idle is fine

[D Walford]

On 28/11/2016 7:41 PM, bananas...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi ive been entertained by this forum but have a question to ask.
> I have just developed a miss of sorts under ecceleration and have run out of ideas.

Make and model car?

Im now leaning to the moreys oil that i. Added not long ago and belive
that the valves are staying open longer than usual any thoughts?

Very unlikely.

Its a type of shudder on acceleration idle is fine
>

There are many possibilities and its difficult if not impossible to
diagnose without looking at it.

--
Daryl

[Diesel Damo]

What vehicle? Your theory sounds like a bit of a stretch, but what
else have you eliminated and how?

[Noddy]

Some details would help, like make and model of car, and a more accurate
description of the problem if possible.





--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Clocky]

On 28/11/2016 4:41 PM, bananas...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi ive been entertained by this forum but have a question to ask.
> I have just developed a miss of sorts under ecceleration and have run out of ideas. Im now leaning to the moreys oil that i. Added not long ago and belive that the valves are staying open longer than usual any thoughts? Its a type of shudder on acceleration idle is fine
>

What make and model vehicle for a start?

[Xeno]

Given that you have made no mention of the vehicle nor what you have
already checked out, it's rather difficult to make any sort of
assessment. For that matter, I had to look up what Morey's oil was. I
see that it is a New Zealand brand of oil and fuel additives.

The question first is; did you use the Morey's oil as an additive? I
don't see any oil products on the Morey's website, just additives, so
I'm assuming you used the Morey's engine oil stabilizer. The golden rule
with oil additives is to not ever use them. With that in mind, if you
are using a decent brand of engine oil of the correct rating for your
engine, you *do not ever need* to use an oil additive as the correct
grade of oil will have been formulated to meet the purpose at hand and
needs no further additives. For that matter, any additives in the
Morey's oil have a very good chance of upsetting the balance of the
additives in the existing engine oil and, at worst, will conflict with
existing additives. If you feel the existing oil is lacking, then go for
a grade that meets and *exceeds* the vehicle manufacturers
specifications yet maintains the viscosity ratings. This website will
explain some of those lubricant standards;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil
It will also provide links to the various standards institute websites
for further info.

As for the Morey's oil causing issues with the valves, and I'm assuming
hydraulic tappets here, any problem caused by a potential viscosity or
similar issue would not be related to acceleration and would possibly be
worse at all higher speeds regardless of acceleration, cruise or overrun.

Given the limited information on the fault and the fact that you have
not indicated what diagnosis checks you have already carried out, I tend
to think your issue is most likely ignition related. You see, at idle
the ignition system is under very limited stress due to the low cylinder
pressures. It takes very little voltage to push a spark across the plug
gap. Full throttle acceleration is the opposite end of the equation and
places the most stress on the ignition system due to the very high
cylinder pressures. This can be worsened if the engine is accelerated in
the higher speed ranges due to reduced coil dwell time between spark
firing. Might note this is much less of an issue these days since
manufacturers have moved away from single coil ignition systems. Proper
diagnosis tools can be vital here. A code reader for a start since a
misfire will likely throw up an error code in the range P0300-P0314 or
P0350-P0362. An oscilloscope will be useful as well, even with the cars
built in diagnostics, as you can *see* the ignition system in operation.




--

Xeno

First they ignore you,
Then they ridicule you,
Then they fight you,
Then you win.

Mahatma Ghandi