Hilux axle codes...

[Je�us]

Just wondering if anyone here can confirm that my Hilux has an limited
slip diff? (LSD or not - it's rooted, btw). Axle code is G143. From
what I can deduce via search, it is an LSD diff... but theres a lot of
contradictory info out there so thought I'd ask here. Thanks.

[darren]

Asking here is likely to be even more contradictory

[Je�us]

On Sun, 15 Dec 2013 08:52:50 +1030, darren <dronn...@adam.com.au>
wrote:

Well... maybe :)
I'd trust a few of the regulars here though if they gave a clear
answer.

[Clocky]

"Je�us" <no...@all.org> wrote in message
news:05npa95dsvv02te7l...@4ax.com...

When you say it's rooted, does it still spin?

If both wheels spin in the same direction it's LSD, failing that you can
probably pull out the filler plug and see the clutches with a torch.

[D Walford]

http://toyota.off-road.com/trucks-4x4/tech/toyota-differential-identification-18588.html
Another site agrees so it looks like a 8" 4.875:1 with a 2 pinion LSD.

--
Daryl

[Je�us]

On Sun, 15 Dec 2013 07:15:02 +0800, "Clocky" <not...@happen.com>
wrote:

>
>"Je�us" <no...@all.org> wrote in message
>news:05npa95dsvv02te7l...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2013 08:52:50 +1030, darren <dronn...@adam.com.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Je�us wrote:
>>>> Just wondering if anyone here can confirm that my Hilux has an limited
>>>> slip diff? (LSD or not - it's rooted, btw). Axle code is G143. From
>>>> what I can deduce via search, it is an LSD diff... but theres a lot of
>>>> contradictory info out there so thought I'd ask here. Thanks.
>>>
>>>Asking here is likely to be even more contradictory
>>
>> Well... maybe :)
>> I'd trust a few of the regulars here though if they gave a clear
>> answer.
>
>When you say it's rooted, does it still spin?

Yep, still spins but makes a god-awful noise when backing off the
throttle at cruising speed.

>If both wheels spin in the same direction it's LSD, failing that you can
>probably pull out the filler plug and see the clutches with a torch.

Thanks Clocky, I'll check to see if I can spot the clutches - don't
have it with me at the moment so will have to wait, cheers

[Je�us]

That's good to see - same specs as I came across in a pdf file, thanks
Daryl.

[John_H]

Jack up one wheel (in neutral) and see how much torque it needs to
rotate it. Typically around 40 lb.ft if the LSD clutch is up to spec,
somewhat less if it isn't, hardly any at all if it doesn't have it.

--
John H

[Noddy]

On 15/12/13 10:51 AM, Je�us wrote:

> Thanks Clocky, I'll check to see if I can spot the clutches - don't
> have it with me at the moment so will have to wait, cheers

If you jack both wheels off the ground and spin one by hand, the other
will spin in the same direction if it's an lsd and the clutches are
completely fucked as while they probably won't have enough drip to work
in service they'll have enough to spin the opposite wheel in the air
even if they're completely worn out.

For what it's worth Toyota slipperies seem to be pretty unreliable for
some reason and I've seen so many that don't work it's not funny. I have
no idea why that is as there's nothing specifically unreliable about
anything else they make, but the LSD diffs in their Hi-luxes and Land
Cruisers are woeful when it comes to durability.





--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Blue Heeler]

John

All well and good with a working LSD. however the LSDs fitted to hilux
vehicles are notorious for wearing out their clutch packs with indecent
speed. Once that happens they are "open" diffs.

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[John_H]

Blue Heeler wrote:
>John_H wrote:
>> Je�us wrote:
>>
>> > Just wondering if anyone here can confirm that my Hilux has an
>> > limited slip diff? (LSD or not - it's rooted, btw). Axle code is
>> > G143. From what I can deduce via search, it is an LSD diff... but
>> > theres a lot of contradictory info out there so thought I'd ask
>> > here. Thanks.
>>
>> Jack up one wheel (in neutral) and see how much torque it needs to
>> rotate it. Typically around 40 lb.ft if the LSD clutch is up to spec,
>> somewhat less if it isn't, hardly any at all if it doesn't have it.
>
>John
>
>All well and good with a working LSD. however the LSDs fitted to hilux
>vehicles are notorious for wearing out their clutch packs with indecent
>speed. Once that happens they are "open" diffs.

Unbreakable! :))

[Blue Heeler]

John_H wrote:

> >
> > All well and good with a working LSD. however the LSDs fitted to
> > hilux vehicles are notorious for wearing out their clutch packs
> > with indecent speed. Once that happens they are "open" diffs.
>
> Unbreakable! :))

currently contemplating if the vehicle is worth the cost of putting a
new evaporator into. I believe that it is a "dash out" job which means
about a day's labour plus cost of new evap gas etc.

[Noddy]

On 15/12/13 8:03 PM, Blue Heeler wrote:

> All well and good with a working LSD. however the LSDs fitted to hilux
> vehicles are notorious for wearing out their clutch packs with indecent
> speed. Once that happens they are "open" diffs.

They'll usually have enough grab to turn an unloaded wheel.


--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[D Walford]

The talk about LSD's is making me think that my Hilux would benefit from
one, its too easy to spin the inside wheel accelerating out of a corner
on a wet day.

--
Daryl

[Noddy]

On 15/12/13 11:15 PM, D Walford wrote:

> The talk about LSD's is making me think that my Hilux would benefit from
> one, its too easy to spin the inside wheel accelerating out of a corner
> on a wet day.

I wouldn't waste my money with a Toyota one, as it'd be lucky to last a
few months before it's worn out.



--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[John_H]

Blue Heeler wrote:
>
>currently contemplating if the vehicle is worth the cost of putting a
>new evaporator into. I believe that it is a "dash out" job which means
>about a day's labour plus cost of new evap gas etc.

If you use LPG the refrigerant will cost three tenths of SFA, a bit
more if you use Hychill (now readily available in Q). Check the
online OEX and Jaycar catalogues for an evaporator.

Of course you should also replace the receiver drier and compressor
oil.

I've long since given up costing my own labour on days off! :)

--
John H

[John_H]

D Walford wrote:
>
>The talk about LSD's is making me think that my Hilux would benefit from
>one, its too easy to spin the inside wheel accelerating out of a corner
>on a wet day.

D'ya mean to say they don't come standard?...
And you probably wonder why some of us won't buy Hiluxes! :)

--
John H

[Je�us]

On Sun, 15 Dec 2013 18:14:13 +1100, Noddy <m...@wardengineering.com.au>
wrote:

>On 15/12/13 10:51 AM, Je�us wrote:
>
>> Thanks Clocky, I'll check to see if I can spot the clutches - don't
>> have it with me at the moment so will have to wait, cheers
>
>If you jack both wheels off the ground and spin one by hand, the other
>will spin in the same direction if it's an lsd and the clutches are
>completely fucked as while they probably won't have enough drip to work
>in service they'll have enough to spin the opposite wheel in the air
>even if they're completely worn out.

Thanks Noddy, will try that tomorrow (ute isn't here with me ATM).

>For what it's worth Toyota slipperies seem to be pretty unreliable for
>some reason and I've seen so many that don't work it's not funny. I have
>no idea why that is as there's nothing specifically unreliable about
>anything else they make, but the LSD diffs in their Hi-luxes and Land
>Cruisers are woeful when it comes to durability.

Yeah, everything I have read suggests they're not the best.
I'm considering buying an Eaton LSD such as this one - much the same
price as a Toyota exchange unit:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/271290515628?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

[Je�us]

Thanks John, I'll test her tomorrow... either way, I want an LSD in
there and looking into options now.

[Je�us]

Very easy indeed.

[Noddy]

On 16/12/13 7:24 AM, John_H wrote:

> D'ya mean to say they don't come standard?...
> And you probably wonder why some of us won't buy Hiluxes! :)

Lol :)

Toyota has consistently offered the *least* for the money for years now :)



--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[John_H]

Then throw a couple of bags of sand on the back of the tray! :)

The problem with utes is the lack of weight of over the drive axle and
in a similar situation an LSD will merely cause both wheels to spin
and make it uncontrollable. The purpose of an LSD is to improve
traction in a straight line.

--
John H

[Xeno Lith]

The buying public, it seems, does not agree with your view.

--

Xeno

[D Walford]

I have heard that the Toyota LSD's aren't much good, are there
aftermarket LSD's that would fit?
They are common in the 4WD's but mine is 2WD so not sure if the 4WD
diffs will fit, AFAIK they are a different ratio.

--
Daryl

[D Walford]

I think LSD's are standard on 4WD's but mine is 2WD, axle code is B04A
which is 8", 4.56:1, 2 pinion open centre.

--
Daryl

[D Walford]

On 16/12/2013 9:03 AM, John_H wrote:
> Je�us wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2013 23:15:37 +1100, D Walford
>> <dwal...@internode.on.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> The talk about LSD's is making me think that my Hilux would benefit from
>>> one, its too easy to spin the inside wheel accelerating out of a corner
>>> on a wet day.
>>
>> Very easy indeed.
>
> Then throw a couple of bags of sand on the back of the tray! :)
>

I always carry a large tool box which weighs around 150kg.

> The problem with utes is the lack of weight of over the drive axle and
> in a similar situation an LSD will merely cause both wheels to spin
> and make it uncontrollable.

That possibility did occur to me.

The purpose of an LSD is to improve
> traction in a straight line.
>

Which is rarely a problem, light truck tyres don't help.

--
Daryl

[Je�us]

Could always check your axle code and compare:
http://tinyurl.com/axle-codes

[atec77]

http://www.torsen.com/products/products.htm

--









X-No-Archive: Yes

[Noddy]

On 16/12/13 10:20 AM, D Walford wrote:

> I have heard that the Toyota LSD's aren't much good, are there
> aftermarket LSD's that would fit?

Yeah, a Ford 9 inch with a Detroit Locker would be about as good as
you'll ever get :)

> They are common in the 4WD's but mine is 2WD so not sure if the 4WD
> diffs will fit, AFAIK they are a different ratio.

Most 4WD versions usually are.





--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Noddy]

On 16/12/13 9:45 AM, Xeno Lith wrote:

> The buying public, it seems, does not agree with your view.

The buying public largely looks at the badge and throws their money down
despite their being completely ignorant of the alternatives. Just
because Toyota sells lots of vehicles doesn't mean they make the best
one out there.

Volkswagen sold over 20 million dak-daks.


--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Xeno Lith]

On 16/12/2013 1:36 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 16/12/13 9:45 AM, Xeno Lith wrote:
>
>> The buying public, it seems, does not agree with your view.
>
> The buying public largely looks at the badge and throws their money down
> despite their being completely ignorant of the alternatives. Just
> because Toyota sells lots of vehicles doesn't mean they make the best
> one out there.

No one said they they're the best out there. Mazda sells more of their
Corolla sized equivalent. Between Mazda and Toyota however, they seem to
have that segment of the market sewn up. If they aren't the best,
they're making a damned good pretense at it. Toyota have never been
inspiring cars. They just do the job expected of them and they do it
reliably. What more can you ask?

>
> Volkswagen sold over 20 million dak-daks.
>

They were cheap..
>


--

Xeno

[Noddy]

On 16/12/13 1:50 PM, Xeno Lith wrote:

> No one said they they're the best out there.

That's what I *said*, you fucking idiot. Try *reading* before arguing
just for the sake of it.




--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Xeno Lith]

On 16/12/2013 2:22 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 16/12/13 1:50 PM, Xeno Lith wrote:
>
>> No one said they they're the best out there.
>
> That's what I *said*, you fucking idiot. Try *reading* before arguing
> just for the sake of it.
>

Something has to explain the sales figures however. Could you enlighten
me on that score? Toyota certainly isn't known for their stylish cars or
superior technology. Maybe it's got something to do with their
reliability? That was certainly my main reason for the purchase of this
current one, given the reliability of the older model we traded in. My
wife wanted a Mazda 3 but, given the issues we had with our 97 Mazda,
one of those was never going to be on my shopping list.

--

Xeno

[Noddy]

On 16/12/13 3:58 PM, Xeno Lith wrote:

> Something has to explain the sales figures however. Could you enlighten
> me on that score?

I already did. Buy and large, people buy Toyotas *because* they're
Toyotas. It's got nothing to do with them being the best value for money
or the most well equipped car in their class.

> Toyota certainly isn't known for their stylish cars or
> superior technology. Maybe it's got something to do with their
> reliability?

It's got everything to do with their reputation, whether deserved or
not. People generally perceive Toyota products as more reliable than
others. Whether they are or not (and for the record I don't think they
are) seems to be irrelevant. The perception is that they are, so people
will buy them as a conscience solve.

Another point to consider is that most people who buy their cars (as
opposed to their commercials) are generally the types who couldn't give
a crap about anything on wheels and are *not* "car heads". Hence the
belief that the "brand is everything".

Most people who *are* "car heads" will buy just about anything else.

> That was certainly my main reason for the purchase of this
> current one, given the reliability of the older model we traded in. My
> wife wanted a Mazda 3 but, given the issues we had with our 97 Mazda,
> one of those was never going to be on my shopping list.

I don't care what you own Krypsis.



--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[John_H]

It is if you operate off the bitumen... or there's lots of horses.

The ideal setup for a ute would be LSD and traction control... which
I'd assume is what Falcadores have as standard. If they only had the
LSD a lot more of 'em would surely come to grief. :)

--
John H

[D Walford]

It bought a lot of older utes undone:-)
Its not really a problem for me because I expect it and exercise some
throttle control, I get very nervous when my wife drives it on a wet day
because she is used to an AWD car with all the electronic gadgets.

--
Daryl

[Je�us]

On Mon, 16 Dec 2013 16:35:50 +1100, Noddy <m...@wardengineering.com.au>
wrote:

>On 16/12/13 3:58 PM, Xeno Lith wrote:
>
>> Something has to explain the sales figures however. Could you enlighten
>> me on that score?
>
>I already did. Buy and large, people buy Toyotas *because* they're
>Toyotas. It's got nothing to do with them being the best value for money
>or the most well equipped car in their class.

Well, when it comes to 4x4's, there aren't many I would consider that
are not Toyotas. Other types of vehicles is another story though.

[jonz]

On 12/16/2013 1:36 PM, Noddy wrote:
> On 16/12/13 9:45 AM, Xeno Lith wrote:
>
>> The buying public, it seems, does not agree with your view.
>
> The buying public largely looks at the badge and throws their money down
> despite their being completely ignorant of the alternatives. Just
> because Toyota sells lots of vehicles doesn't mean they make the best
> one out there.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
Nobody nose like numby nose...........

>
> Volkswagen sold over 20 million dak-daks.
>
>


--

�Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea- massive,
difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind
boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it�

[Xeno Lith]

On 16/12/2013 4:35 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 16/12/13 3:58 PM, Xeno Lith wrote:
>
>> Something has to explain the sales figures however. Could you enlighten
>> me on that score?
>
> I already did. Buy and large, people buy Toyotas *because* they're
> Toyotas. It's got nothing to do with them being the best value for money
> or the most well equipped car in their class.
>
>> Toyota certainly isn't known for their stylish cars or
>> superior technology. Maybe it's got something to do with their
>> reliability?
>
> It's got everything to do with their reputation, whether deserved or
> not. People generally perceive Toyota products as more reliable than
> others. Whether they are or not (and for the record I don't think they
> are) seems to be irrelevant. The perception is that they are, so people
> will buy them as a conscience solve.

I bought my current one because the first one proved the reputation for
reliability to be 100% correct.

>
> Another point to consider is that most people who buy their cars (as
> opposed to their commercials) are generally the types who couldn't give
> a crap about anything on wheels and are *not* "car heads". Hence the
> belief that the "brand is everything".

Hence the belief that the reliability is everything.

>
> Most people who *are* "car heads" will buy just about anything else.

I can see that being possible.

>
>> That was certainly my main reason for the purchase of this
>> current one, given the reliability of the older model we traded in. My
>> wife wanted a Mazda 3 but, given the issues we had with our 97 Mazda,
>> one of those was never going to be on my shopping list.
>
> I don't care what you own Krypsis.
>

You seem to have a fixation with Krypsis. You need to get over it.


--

Xeno

[Blue Heeler]

D Walford wrote:

> On 15/12/2013 9:49 PM, Noddy wrote:
> > On 15/12/13 8:03 PM, Blue Heeler wrote:
> >
> > > All well and good with a working LSD. however the LSDs fitted to
> > > hilux vehicles are notorious for wearing out their clutch packs
> > > with indecent speed. Once that happens they are "open" diffs.
> >
> > They'll usually have enough grab to turn an unloaded wheel.
> >
> >

> The talk about LSD's is making me think that my Hilux would benefit
> from one, its too easy to spin the inside wheel accelerating out of a
> corner on a wet day.

I'd rather just buy LSD, then I could hallucinate about amazing 4WD
adventures and I would not have to wash the thing afterwards

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[D Walford]

On 16/12/2013 8:42 PM, Blue Heeler wrote:
> D Walford wrote:
>
>> On 15/12/2013 9:49 PM, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 15/12/13 8:03 PM, Blue Heeler wrote:
>>>
>>>> All well and good with a working LSD. however the LSDs fitted to
>>>> hilux vehicles are notorious for wearing out their clutch packs
>>>> with indecent speed. Once that happens they are "open" diffs.
>>>
>>> They'll usually have enough grab to turn an unloaded wheel.
>>>
>>>
>> The talk about LSD's is making me think that my Hilux would benefit
>> from one, its too easy to spin the inside wheel accelerating out of a
>> corner on a wet day.
>
> I'd rather just buy LSD, then I could hallucinate about amazing 4WD
> adventures and I would not have to wash the thing afterwards

LOL, might be safer to watch a video:-)


--
Daryl

[Noddy]

On 16/12/13 5:36 PM, Je�us wrote:

> Well, when it comes to 4x4's, there aren't many I would consider that
> are not Toyotas. Other types of vehicles is another story though.

I tend to agree. I think the Landcruiser is a stand out vehicle and has
been for quite some time. The Hi-lux I think is less so, but not because
there is anything particularly wrong with it other than it being in a
*far* more competitive field than the 'Cruiser and a lot of the
competition is just as good.



--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Noddy]

On 16/12/13 7:42 PM, Xeno Lith wrote:

> I bought my current one because the first one proved the reputation for
> reliability to be 100% correct.

Good for you.

Brand names mean nothing to me, which is why I had no qualms buying a 43
thousand buck Hyundai. I couldn't care less who makes it, and just
because Brand X made a decent car last time doesn't mean the will tomorrow.

> You seem to have a fixation with Krypsis. You need to get over it.

If anyone needs to get over it pal, I know who it is :)



--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[D Walford]

Amazing that you can't buy a diesel Patrol any more so LC has no decent
competition worth considering for serious off road or remote location use.

--
Daryl

[Je�us]

On Mon, 16 Dec 2013 22:31:01 +1100, Noddy <m...@wardengineering.com.au>
wrote:

Yep, nothing wrong with a Hilux but Landcruisers beat the piss out of
Hiluxs in the bush as far as I am concerned.

Hilux are way more popular here in Tas - even more so than on the
mainland for some reason (less income?). Most owners try to claim they
are better in the bush because they're lighter, but my experience
tells me that is an overrated attribute (and not just with my own
Hilux either).

[Je�us]

On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:50:38 +1100, D Walford
<dwal...@internode.on.net> wrote:

>On 16/12/2013 10:31 PM, Noddy wrote:
>> On 16/12/13 5:36 PM, Je�us wrote:
>>
>>> Well, when it comes to 4x4's, there aren't many I would consider that
>>> are not Toyotas. Other types of vehicles is another story though.
>>
>> I tend to agree. I think the Landcruiser is a stand out vehicle and has
>> been for quite some time. The Hi-lux I think is less so, but not because
>> there is anything particularly wrong with it other than it being in a
>> *far* more competitive field than the 'Cruiser and a lot of the
>> competition is just as good.
>>
>>
>>
>Amazing that you can't buy a diesel Patrol any more so

Really?!? Did not know that.

>LC has no decent
>competition worth considering for serious off road or remote location use.

A seemingly very odd thing for Nissan to do. The rural sector wouldn't
even look at a Patrol in that case, almost guaranteeing it's demise if
they're not careful... wouldn't be surprised if they phase the Patrol
out in a few years time if they insist on no diesel.

[Je�us]

Well, sand bags are always an option I suppose :)

Tweaking the suspension would help and is something I need to look at
on my bus at some point... some previous owner has added monster
leaves to the rear, making it too stiff for anything other than big
loads.

[Je�us]

On 16 Dec 2013 09:42:23 GMT, "Blue Heeler" <wo...@bark.org> wrote:

>D Walford wrote:
>
>> On 15/12/2013 9:49 PM, Noddy wrote:
>> > On 15/12/13 8:03 PM, Blue Heeler wrote:
>> >
>> > > All well and good with a working LSD. however the LSDs fitted to
>> > > hilux vehicles are notorious for wearing out their clutch packs
>> > > with indecent speed. Once that happens they are "open" diffs.
>> >
>> > They'll usually have enough grab to turn an unloaded wheel.
>> >
>> >
>> The talk about LSD's is making me think that my Hilux would benefit
>> from one, its too easy to spin the inside wheel accelerating out of a
>> corner on a wet day.
>
>I'd rather just buy LSD, then I could hallucinate about amazing 4WD
>adventures and I would not have to wash the thing afterwards

Why spend money on LSD when I'm sure you can find some Psilocybes
growing in your area :p

[John_H]

D Walford wrote:
>
>Amazing that you can't buy a diesel Patrol any more so LC has no decent
>competition worth considering for serious off road or remote location use.

The 3 litre diesel is still listed on their website (and it's the only
option in cab chassis)!!!

FWIW the last two serious one tonners I've bought have been Patrols
(the most recent is an M09). Last Toyota was back in the 80's, for
which you can probably blame John Laws (I couldn't stand the prick so
Toyota and Valvoline got blacklisted). :)

It wasn't a bad decision either. The first of them (a 4.2 with around
500k on the clock) is now my daily driver and it's been nigh on
bulletproof.

--
John H

[John_H]

Je�us wrote:
>
>Yep, nothing wrong with a Hilux but Landcruisers beat the piss out of
>Hiluxs in the bush as far as I am concerned.

Almost anything beats the piss out a Hilux in the bush... at least
since they went to IFS. Only the urban cowboys buy Hiluxes!

At the last count of the toy one tonners in our local shopping centre
carpark Hilux were the least represented. Triton's were the most
popular.

Current best seller is almost certainly the Ranger (on which the jury
is still out). BiL from the NT reckons they're shit! :)

--
John H

[Je�us]

On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 06:49:18 +1000, John_H <john...@inbox.com> wrote:

>Je�us wrote:
>>
>>Yep, nothing wrong with a Hilux but Landcruisers beat the piss out of
>>Hiluxs in the bush as far as I am concerned.
>
>Almost anything beats the piss out a Hilux in the bush... at least
>since they went to IFS. Only the urban cowboys buy Hiluxes!

Oi! ;)

Not just the IFS models either, I'd include the old live axle ones too
(albeit they are much better than IFS, of course).

>At the last count of the toy one tonners in our local shopping centre
>carpark Hilux were the least represented. Triton's were the most
>popular.

Yeah, back when I was in the N.T, Landcruisers easily outnumbered
Hiluxs (mind you, those horrible Landrovers were king up there until
the late 70's). Down here it's the exact opposite, to the point that I
very nearly went to the mainland to find a suitable Cruiser.

>Current best seller is almost certainly the Ranger (on which the jury
>is still out). BiL from the NT reckons they're shit! :)

Rightly or wrongly, I automatically steer clear of Fords, Mazdas,
Holdens, etc when it comes to 4X4s. I don't think they would last very
long in my hands, due to my usage.

[John_H]

Je�us wrote:
>On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 06:49:18 +1000, John_H <john...@inbox.com> wrote:
>
>>At the last count of the toy one tonners in our local shopping centre
>>carpark Hilux were the least represented. Triton's were the most
>>popular.
>
>Yeah, back when I was in the N.T, Landcruisers easily outnumbered
>Hiluxs (mind you, those horrible Landrovers were king up there until
>the late 70's). Down here it's the exact opposite, to the point that I
>very nearly went to the mainland to find a suitable Cruiser.

Where I am the proper 4WD utes are mostly Landcruisers although
Patrols were dominant at one stage, because the Toyotas didn't have
airbags (backward as always) and consequently weren't allowed on mine
sites.

Good secondhand 4WD utes are always hard to find and I won't buy new
for off road use. The last one, bought this year, happens to be a 3yo
Patrol that had never been off road (even harder to find).

In all seriousness Landrover are unsurpassed off road, and always have
been. Pity they're such a lousy vehicle on road (including the
current Defender).

--
John H

[Xeno Lith]

On 17/12/2013 9:19 am, John_H wrote:
> Je�us wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 06:49:18 +1000, John_H <john...@inbox.com> wrote:
>>
>>> At the last count of the toy one tonners in our local shopping centre
>>> carpark Hilux were the least represented. Triton's were the most
>>> popular.
>>
>> Yeah, back when I was in the N.T, Landcruisers easily outnumbered
>> Hiluxs (mind you, those horrible Landrovers were king up there until
>> the late 70's). Down here it's the exact opposite, to the point that I
>> very nearly went to the mainland to find a suitable Cruiser.
>
> Where I am the proper 4WD utes are mostly Landcruisers although
> Patrols were dominant at one stage, because the Toyotas didn't have
> airbags (backward as always) and consequently weren't allowed on mine
> sites.

Government departments weren't allowed to buy them either for the same
reason.

>
> Good secondhand 4WD utes are always hard to find and I won't buy new
> for off road use. The last one, bought this year, happens to be a 3yo
> Patrol that had never been off road (even harder to find).
>
> In all seriousness Landrover are unsurpassed off road, and always have
> been. Pity they're such a lousy vehicle on road (including the
> current Defender).
>


--

Xeno

[D Walford]

I checked the Nissan web site and you can still get a diesel in the cab
chassis version buts its 3.0lt I4 compared to the LC 4.5lt V8.
Looks like you can still buy the old model wagon with a TD but not the
new model which only comes with a 5.6lt petrol V8.

--
Daryl

[D Walford]

On 17/12/2013 7:34 AM, John_H wrote:
> D Walford wrote:
>>
>> Amazing that you can't buy a diesel Patrol any more so LC has no decent
>> competition worth considering for serious off road or remote location use.
>
> The 3 litre diesel is still listed on their website (and it's the only
> option in cab chassis)!!!

Looks like the TD was dropped in the new model but they still sell the
old model which is a strange thing that only Nissan seem to do.

>
> FWIW the last two serious one tonners I've bought have been Patrols
> (the most recent is an M09). Last Toyota was back in the 80's, for
> which you can probably blame John Laws (I couldn't stand the prick so
> Toyota and Valvoline got blacklisted). :)
>
> It wasn't a bad decision either. The first of them (a 4.2 with around
> 500k on the clock) is now my daily driver and it's been nigh on
> bulletproof.
>

Lot of difference between your 4.2lt and the 3.0lt, an extra 1.2lts
might have bit more torque:-)

--
Daryl

[Noddy]

On 17/12/13 7:12 AM, Je�us wrote:

> Really?!? Did not know that.

I think Nissan has given up with the Patrol as a serious contender to
the Cruiser, and now seem interested in merely satisfying the diehards
who would by one even if it had a Volkswagen engine in it.

> A seemingly very odd thing for Nissan to do. The rural sector wouldn't
> even look at a Patrol in that case, almost guaranteeing it's demise if
> they're not careful... wouldn't be surprised if they phase the Patrol
> out in a few years time if they insist on no diesel.

I think they're seeing the major focus on the Navara these days.



--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Noddy]

On 17/12/13 7:05 AM, Je�us wrote:

> Yep, nothing wrong with a Hilux but Landcruisers beat the piss out of
> Hiluxs in the bush as far as I am concerned.
>
> Hilux are way more popular here in Tas - even more so than on the
> mainland for some reason (less income?). Most owners try to claim they
> are better in the bush because they're lighter, but my experience
> tells me that is an overrated attribute (and not just with my own
> Hilux either).

They're popular in QLD as well. I remember being up there visiting
friends a few years ago and while there the husband wanted to take me
out with him to look for a good used crew cab to replace his single cab
Hi-lux which no longer suited his family needs.

What he quickly discovered was that *anything* with "Toyota" and
"Hi-lux" badges on the same vehicle attracted quite high used car price
premiums, and to the point of being utterly ridiculous. Some people
genuinely seemed to be of the opinion that a smacked around old Hi-lux
that had *obviously* had the living shit kicked out of it was worth as
much as a clean and usually later model Navara or Rodeo or Triton.

It's totally fucking bizarre, but that "Toyota" badge really does bring
out the "nutso" in some people :)

In the end, we found a mint 3.0 Turbo Diesel Rodeo that had been a
poof's car in that it had never done a day's work in it's life, and he
bought it. It was a bit cheaper than the average knocked around Lux that
was a few years older, and it's been a fantastic vehicle ever since
apparently.






--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Clocky]

"John_H" <john...@inbox.com> wrote in message
news:q2pua95749eq795p7...@4ax.com...

> Je�us wrote:
>>
>>Yep, nothing wrong with a Hilux but Landcruisers beat the piss out of
>>Hiluxs in the bush as far as I am concerned.
>
> Almost anything beats the piss out a Hilux in the bush... at least
> since they went to IFS. Only the urban cowboys buy Hiluxes!
>

Tell that to the mining industry.
They literally couldn't get enough of them here.

[Noddy]

On 17/12/13 10:38 AM, Clocky wrote:

> Tell that to the mining industry.
> They literally couldn't get enough of them here.

So what?

Fleet buyers buy whatever offers them the best overall deal. Not what
happens to be the best vehicle for the task.



--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[John_H]

D Walford wrote:
>
>Lot of difference between your 4.2lt and the 3.0lt, an extra 1.2lts
>might have bit more torque:-)

If you mean useful torque (that which comes from power at the drive
wheels) the 3 litre shits all over it as a towing vehicle although I'd
doubt if it'll be as indestructable.

Nissan do seem to have lost sight of the ball since the frogs got
involved. :)

--
John H

[John_H]

Clocky wrote:
>"John_H" <john...@inbox.com> wrote in message
>news:q2pua95749eq795p7...@4ax.com...
>>

>> Almost anything beats the piss out a Hilux in the bush... at least
>> since they went to IFS. Only the urban cowboys buy Hiluxes!
>
>Tell that to the mining industry.
>They literally couldn't get enough of them here.

The mining industry in Queensland buys nothing (they hire all their
vehicles) and I'd be very surprised if WA isn't the same. :)

The hire companies buy according to the best deal they can get on a
job lot and sell the rusted out wrecks (which is what coal dust does
to 'em) for the best price they can get in suburbia.

Almost no one who lives in my part of the world buys a Hilux as an off
road 4WD, and haven't done so for years.

--
John H

[D Walford]

On 17/12/2013 10:30 AM, Noddy wrote:
> On 17/12/13 7:12 AM, Je�us wrote:
>
>> Really?!? Did not know that.
>
> I think Nissan has given up with the Patrol as a serious contender to
> the Cruiser, and now seem interested in merely satisfying the diehards
> who would by one even if it had a Volkswagen engine in it.
>

To make matters worse Nissan recommend 95ron fuel which may be difficult
to get in remote locations, Nissan seem to be saying that they don't
think much of the Patrols usefulness out of suburbia.

>> A seemingly very odd thing for Nissan to do. The rural sector wouldn't
>> even look at a Patrol in that case, almost guaranteeing it's demise if
>> they're not careful... wouldn't be surprised if they phase the Patrol
>> out in a few years time if they insist on no diesel.
>
> I think they're seeing the major focus on the Navara these days.
>

Could be.


--
Daryl

[D Walford]

On 17/12/2013 11:37 AM, John_H wrote:
> D Walford wrote:
>>
>> Lot of difference between your 4.2lt and the 3.0lt, an extra 1.2lts
>> might have bit more torque:-)
>
> If you mean useful torque (that which comes from power at the drive
> wheels) the 3 litre shits all over it as a towing vehicle although I'd
> doubt if it'll be as indestructable.

So the 4.2 is na?

>
> Nissan do seem to have lost sight of the ball since the frogs got
> involved. :)
>

Apart from a Skyline GTR not much Nissan made has ever appealed to me.

--
Daryl

[John_H]

D Walford wrote:
>On 17/12/2013 11:37 AM, John_H wrote:
>> D Walford wrote:
>>>
>>> Lot of difference between your 4.2lt and the 3.0lt, an extra 1.2lts
>>> might have bit more torque:-)
>>
>> If you mean useful torque (that which comes from power at the drive
>> wheels) the 3 litre shits all over it as a towing vehicle although I'd
>> doubt if it'll be as indestructable.
>
>So the 4.2 is na?

Yep, and probably one of the most durable diesel engines ever to be
put in a ute (or car). The 3 litre is also regarded as a better
towing vehicle than the turbo'd 4.2 (as well as having a higher CVM).

>> Nissan do seem to have lost sight of the ball since the frogs got
>> involved. :)

>Apart from a Skyline GTR not much Nissan made has ever appealed to me.

The first Patrol I owned was a 60's model and it actually drove far
better than the '78 FJ45 that replaced it. It's main weakness being
the fuel tank, which hung below the chassis. I lost count of how many
times I had to weld it... after removing all the Araldite and shit the
previous owner had applied.

The Z's weren't bad cars, as was the original Fairlady. Some
Skylines, but not all, were great cars (especially the grey imports).
Datsun 1600's were probably better than anything else for the same
money. Most of their very early stuff was far better than the BMC
junk they copied it from.

There was also a time when I wouldn't have knocked back a 200SX (which
were phased out because of emission standards)... one of the best 2
litre turbos of its time (and way ahead of Subaru's engine).

Mate has a Pathfinder (wagon version of the Navara) which he's had for
years and it's certainly outlasted any of his previous cars. It's
also a very capable off roader (as wagons go).

--
John H

[Clocky]

"John_H" <john...@inbox.com> wrote in message

news:da7va9plc9vdkpa94...@4ax.com...

> Clocky wrote:
>>"John_H" <john...@inbox.com> wrote in message
>>news:q2pua95749eq795p7...@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> Almost anything beats the piss out a Hilux in the bush... at least
>>> since they went to IFS. Only the urban cowboys buy Hiluxes!
>>
>>Tell that to the mining industry.
>>They literally couldn't get enough of them here.
>
> The mining industry in Queensland buys nothing (they hire all their
> vehicles) and I'd be very surprised if WA isn't the same. :)
>

The place I worked at previously delivered full mine spec builds to the
mining industry, almost all Toyota and a very large percentage of them
Hiluxes.

Over 350 a month being prepared to mine spec in 24 bay workshop running two
shifts.

[Clocky]

"Noddy" <m...@wardengineering.com.au> wrote in message
news:l8o2sj$ouo$1...@dont-email.me...

They're a pretty poor choice off road up north, those 3.0 diesels get dusted
real easily due to their poor intake design.
The driveshafts are another area of weakness when stressed as are the
electrics, particularly the 4x4 module under the seat and earth point
corrosion at the ECU.

One advantage though is that the Rodeo is much more comfortable a ride, but
really, if you want value for money a new Triton is hard to pass up for
value at the moment.

[Clocky]

"John_H" <john...@inbox.com> wrote in message

news:rssua9h4e2sm2ovkj...@4ax.com...

Drove a new Defender just recently and was surprised at how bad it was.

[Noddy]

On 17/12/13 6:54 PM, Clocky wrote:

> Over 350 a month being prepared to mine spec in 24 bay workshop running two
> shifts.

When they're buying in that kind of volume, they don't give a crap about
the badge.



--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Xeno Lith]

I think the word you're searching for is "utilarian"! ;-)

--

Xeno

[Xeno Lith]

On 17/12/2013 8:18 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 17/12/13 6:54 PM, Clocky wrote:
>
>> Over 350 a month being prepared to mine spec in 24 bay workshop
>> running two
>> shifts.
>
> When they're buying in that kind of volume, they don't give a crap about
> the badge.
>
>
>

What a lateral shift!

--

Xeno

[D Walford]

On 17/12/2013 7:04 PM, Clocky wrote:

>> In all seriousness Landrover are unsurpassed off road, and always have
>> been. Pity they're such a lousy vehicle on road (including the
>> current Defender).
>>
>
> Drove a new Defender just recently and was surprised at how bad it was.
>
>
>

Only been a passenger in one and was amazed at how good the ride was
over the 4WD training course we were on, I can't get comfortable sitting
in the drivers seat because I feel like I am jammed hard against the
drivers door, at one point I was thinking of buying one but I couldn't
get comfortable in the drivers seat so that was the end of it.

--
Daryl

[John_H]

Clocky wrote:
>
>The place I worked at previously delivered full mine spec builds to the
>mining industry, almost all Toyota and a very large percentage of them
>Hiluxes.

Almost every 4WD Hilux I see has a mines ID painted on it, along with
a few other makes. Most are current models and only used as people
movers. The mine environment is severe (most would rust out before
they're worn out) but there's not much arduous work involved. 4WD is
probably never used in the majority of them.

But what has me curious is where all last year's model go, because no
one I know would be silly enough to buy an ex mines vehicle of any
description. Never see them in the local used car lots either.

--
John H

[Xeno Lith]

Probably written off the books and buried under the waste dumps. Their
residual value would probably render them not worthwhile selling.

--

Xeno

[Noddy]

On 17/12/13 8:32 PM, Xeno Lith wrote:

> What a lateral shift!

Lol :)

Sometimes you're *so* stupid I wonder if English is your native tongue :)



--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[D Walford]

A long time ago a BIL bought an ex SEC 60 series Cruiser very cheaply at
an auction that had been used around the open cut coal mine, he was
aware of the problem with the coal dust so when he got it home he
dismantled it and got rid of any that had found its way into places that
were likely to rust, he owned it for about another 5yrs and there was no
sign of rust on it anywhere, it was a lot of work getting rid of the
coal dust but he ended up with a good LC for a very cheap price.

--
Daryl

[news13]

On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 21:58:59 +1100, Noddy wrote:

> On 17/12/13 8:32 PM, Xeno Lith wrote:
>
>> What a lateral shift!
>
> Lol :)
>
> Sometimes you're *so* stupid I wonder if English is your native tongue
> :)

Er, am I the only one here to understand that means a sideways shift?

[Xeno Lith]

It's OK, Noddy's comprehension is a little, shall we say, lacking.
He's the only person I know who's walked through the grounds of
Melbourne Uni thinking that's how you get an education. Education by
osmosis! LOL


--

Xeno

[Clocky]

"D Walford" <dwal...@internode.on.net> wrote in message
news:52b01c24$0$2770$c3e8da3$7649...@news.astraweb.com...

I'm sure they are good offroad, but I couldn't get comfy either and felt
like I was crammed in.

The ride was nothing to write home about.

[Clocky]

"Noddy" <m...@wardengineering.com.au> wrote in message

news:l8p4sj$n5f$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 17/12/13 6:54 PM, Clocky wrote:
>
>> Over 350 a month being prepared to mine spec in 24 bay workshop running
>> two
>> shifts.
>
> When they're buying in that kind of volume, they don't give a crap about
> the badge.
>
>

Yeah, they do.

[Clocky]

"Xeno Lith" <xeno...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:l8p8kn$cmg$1...@dont-email.me...

They get flogged up north, and some are brought down and err, fixed, by
panel shops and the like and resold.

After two years they're pretty much fucked due to their use and environment.

[John_H]

As I said before, they're not owned by the mines so it's the hire
companies that dispose of them. I see hundreds of the things
paddocked in the regional cities they operate from (not all are
Hiluxes) but they never seem to hit the local market.

In the days when the mines bought their own (mostly Landcruisers) they
used to be sold by tender.

--
John H

[Noddy]

On 17/12/13 11:12 PM, news13 wrote:

> Er, am I the only one here to understand that means a sideways shift?

No, you're another one who has no idea about what's being discussed.



--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Noddy]

On 18/12/13 12:59 AM, Clocky wrote:

> Yeah, they do.

No, they don't. They buy whatever represents the best overall deal and
that could be anyone.



--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Noddy]

On 18/12/13 7:25 AM, John_H wrote:

> As I said before, they're not owned by the mines so it's the hire
> companies that dispose of them. I see hundreds of the things
> paddocked in the regional cities they operate from (not all are
> Hiluxes) but they never seem to hit the local market.

They'd probably get fucked off to the other side of the country where
their "history" is less obvious.




--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[John_H]

Except they'd probably flood the markets. As Clocky said, vast
numbers are involved... and it wouldn't do much for the Toyota
reputation either! ;-)

--
John H

[news13]

Around here, we have paddocks of new cars, trucks and other stuff.

If ex-mine stuff is being sold, then it isn't obviousm but there would be
plenty of gulible buyers.

[D Walford]

On 19/12/2013 9:57 PM, Paul Saccani wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 07:12:17 +1100, Je�us <no...@all.org> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 00:50:38 +1100, D Walford
>> <dwal...@internode.on.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 16/12/2013 10:31 PM, Noddy wrote:
>>>> On 16/12/13 5:36 PM, Je�us wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, when it comes to 4x4's, there aren't many I would consider that
>>>>> are not Toyotas. Other types of vehicles is another story though.
>>>>
>>>> I tend to agree. I think the Landcruiser is a stand out vehicle and has
>>>> been for quite some time. The Hi-lux I think is less so, but not because
>>>> there is anything particularly wrong with it other than it being in a
>>>> *far* more competitive field than the 'Cruiser and a lot of the
>>>> competition is just as good.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Amazing that you can't buy a diesel Patrol any more so
>>
>> Really?!? Did not know that.
>
> It is hard to know something that isn't true.
>
> The VK56VD only comes in V8 Petrol, but the Y61 only comes in Diesel.

Nissan's policy of continuing to build the old model along side the new
like D22 and D40 Navara has always seemed very strange to me.
At the time that I heard that Patrol no longer was available with a
diesel I wasn't aware that you could still buy the old model



--
Daryl

[Xeno Lith]

On 19/12/2013 10:01 pm, Paul Saccani wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 07:38:04 +0800, "Clocky" <not...@happen.com>

> wrote:
>
>>
>> "John_H" <john...@inbox.com> wrote in message

>> news:q2pua95749eq795p7...@4ax.com...
>>> Je�us wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yep, nothing wrong with a Hilux but Landcruisers beat the piss out of
>>>> Hiluxs in the bush as far as I am concerned.
>>>
>>> Almost anything beats the piss out a Hilux in the bush... at least
>>> since they went to IFS. Only the urban cowboys buy Hiluxes!
>>>
>>
>> Tell that to the mining industry.
>> They literally couldn't get enough of them here.
>
> I've never seen a Hilux on a mine, not even in the employee car park.
> Must be different over east.
>
A friend who ran a labour hire business, "Trade Hire", out of Wynyard in
Tasmania used to use Toyota Forerunners underground, though primarily as
personnel carriers I have to say.. That would have been about 15 years
back when I last saw him. He dropped in to my home in Nunawading on his
way back to Tasmania from a holiday in Queensland and NT. He was driving
a Forerunner at the time. I don't know if he ever used Hiluxes though
they were popular with government departments in Tasmania, ie, HEC,
Forestry and the like.

--

Xeno

[John_H]

D Walford wrote:
>
>Nissan's policy of continuing to build the old model along side the new
>like D22 and D40 Navara has always seemed very strange to me.

I would've though it wasn't a bad move. One's a basic ute like they
all used to be whereas the other is a tarted up pretender like most
now are. ( AFAIK nearly all of the 4WD's only come as dual cabs these
days.)

I see reasonable numbers of both so it probably hasn't hurt their
sales. Not that the D40 has earned itself much of a reputation
despite appearances... it's better looking than most but it's also
easier tt break when the going gets rough.

--
John H

[John_H]

Paul Saccani wrote:

>On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 10:50:35 +1000, John_H <john...@inbox.com> wrote:
>>Clocky wrote:
>>>"John_H" <john...@inbox.com> wrote in message
>>>news:q2pua95749eq795p7...@4ax.com...
>>>>

>>>> Almost anything beats the piss out a Hilux in the bush... at least
>>>> since they went to IFS. Only the urban cowboys buy Hiluxes!
>>>
>>>Tell that to the mining industry.
>>>They literally couldn't get enough of them here.
>>

>>The mining industry in Queensland buys nothing (they hire all their
>>vehicles) and I'd be very surprised if WA isn't the same. :)
>
>?! Light vehicles used by contractors are usually hire vehicles, but
>light vehicles used, by say, BHP-Billiton Ferrous Metals, are usually
>fully owned.

Most of the mine workers seem to be contractors these days and I can't
tell 'em apart! :)

The few I do know who're supplied with vehicles have Landcruiser
wagons, which seem to be the only wagons that get modified for mine
compliance... probably for economic reasons pertaining to the small
number involved as much as anything else (and not simply because
they're Toyota).

As to whether they're mine owned or hired I have no idea but I've
certainly seen examples in the hirer's yards.

--
John H

[Xeno Lith]

On 20/12/2013 1:05 am, Paul Saccani wrote:

> Clocky reckons his workshop was pumping out hundreds of them over
> here. It could be that I'm out of date, or maybe in the wrong place -
> or both....
>
When I was in Newman 76-78, Cruisers were the go. Had various
configurations but tray and crewcabs were the most popular. The only
other form of vehicle used around the mine that I recall were Holden
utes, always white in colour. Though I was in LV, I never got to work on
the Cruisers or Holdens. They were all taken care of at Minesite Motors
in the light industrial area.

Cruisers were very popular in the mining industry in other places as
well. Where I worked in Indonesia, the company policy was for Cruisers
but they inherited a mixed bag of vehicles from the construction
contractors, Bechtel and Dravo. That included various Ford F configs
from 100 - 350, all 4 wheel drive, as general hacks and International
Scout station wagons for white hats to get about in. Plenty of parts in
the warehouse for the Toyotas but practically nothing for the Fords and
the Scouts so it was a pain to keep them going. The company also had a
fleet of 120 of the lj50 Suzukis as rental cars for mine personnel and
their families. I don't know what they sold for in Australia at the time
but they were landed at the company wharf at Balantang for US$2,000.
That would have been tax/duty exempt, I might add, so these could not be
onsold into the local economy. The same applied to any surplus equipment
at the mine. I recall one huge surplus equipment auction during my time
there where such items as portable lighting towers with Lister SR4
diesel engines went for $20 each, the snag being that the buyer had to
"export" all his purchases. One buyer bought a million dollars worth of
stuff at such prices. He brought his own ship into the wharf, loaded it
up and sailed off.

As for not seeing these vehicles on the secondhand market, I'm not
surprised by that. The companies, when buying in huge fleet quantities,
get absolutely massive volume discounts. When they've completed their
tenure, they would be worth nothing "on the books" so it's quite likely
that large numbers could be scrapped. In my time at Newman a few Holden
utes were buried under the waste dumps. I was told they were tax write
offs. Was it true? I really can't say as I never personally observed a
car being buried. You probably heard the same stories in your time there.

--

Xeno

[Clocky]

Paul Saccani wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Dec 2013 23:19:22 +1100, Xeno Lith
> <xeno...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>

> Clocky reckons his workshop was pumping out hundreds of them over
> here. It could be that I'm out of date, or maybe in the wrong place -
> or both....
>

Hundreds of Toyota's mostly Hiluxes and Landcruisers for the mines.

Mostly Hamersley, BHP, Rio, FMG marked and also RAW hire.

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---

[atec77]

On 20/12/2013 12:05 AM, Paul Saccani wrote:

The system you descibe seems unbalanced to me , I had to arrange the
equivalent here in Qld (blue card)
After an interview with a very odd woman ,in response to the application
I made complaint about her behaviour and in due course was granted but
her dislike of men and biased assumptions made during the process were
quite offensive , I have undergone a number of assessments over the
years without problem and can see how the whole thing at times has
little relevance to the facts being often a "feeling" by dept staff
One would think it reasonable if sober for some years an approval is
not unreasonable ?�
I should think it would be easily open to a legal challenge if one had
the $