Split plastic radiator tank - repair or chuck?

[Blue Heeler]

Got a split in the top tank of a radiator - plastic tank crimped to
alloy core.


Is it a realistic prospect to attempt a weld or glue repair? Not even
considering replacing tank as can buy brand new radiator for $85 + $10
freight.


If glue repair feasible, what sort of glue to use?
--

[Clocky]

Forget it, buy a new one. I bought one of those off ebay for the VR and
it came with a 2 year/50,000km warranty IIRC.

That was about 5 years ago, plenty of hot days and a lot more than
50,000 KM's without issue. I would recommend a good inhibitor that
complies with manufacturer's spec. (IOW not that pov tecaloy shit you
get at supacheap) and replace the thermostat.

[jonz]

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tried to fix one with super glue, worked for a while, then Araldite,
got 3 months. Then bought a new one for about the price you
mentioned.(Magna) IMO not worth the effort.


--
“Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea- massive,
difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind
boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it”

[Noddy]

On 08/06/13 5:31 PM, Blue Heeler wrote:

> Got a split in the top tank of a radiator - plastic tank crimped to
> alloy core.

They're mostly all like that now. Cheap and nasty but there's no
alternative unless you want a custom made job.

> Is it a realistic prospect to attempt a weld or glue repair? Not even
> considering replacing tank as can buy brand new radiator for $85 + $10
> freight.

Given the replacement cost, I personally wouldn't bother.

> If glue repair feasible, what sort of glue to use?

> http://www.blackwoods.com.au/part/00512448/kit-ferropre-part-aandb-7606-1lt

There may be others, but this stuff is excellent. It can be found at
most plumbing outlets (plumbers use it to join and repair pipes), it
sticks to *anything* and can just about be drilled and tapped when it
dries. The down side is that a 1 litre kit (which I think is the
smallest size) would set you back around half the price of a new
replacement radiator.

It's also complete pox as a valve stem replacement material. Like all
good putties :)


--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Jason James]

One thing is,..what caused the split? A missing fan mounting screw
allowed a lot of vibrationwhich eventually caused a split in my
Camry's rad.

Buy the $85 one, it's cheap insurance...

Jason

[Clocky]

Jason James wrote:
> On Jun 8, 5:31 pm, "Blue Heeler" <w...@bark.net> wrote:
>> Got a split in the top tank of a radiator - plastic tank crimped to
>> alloy core.
>>
>> Is it a realistic prospect to attempt a weld or glue repair? Not even
>> considering replacing tank as can buy brand new radiator for $85 + $10
>> freight.
>>
>> If glue repair feasible, what sort of glue to use?
>> --
>
> One thing is,..what caused the split?

Repeated thermal cycling probably.

[ti...@beerlover.com.au]

On Sun, 09 Jun 2013 07:05:34 +0800, Clocky <not...@happen.com> wrote:

> > One thing is,..what caused the split?
>
> Repeated thermal cycling probably.

They make them to fail after a few years to keep their spare parts people happy.

[Sylvia Else]

Stress concentration due to bad design. Some designers seem to think
they're working with steel. Crimping plastic? Sounds to me like it's
asking for touble.

Sylvia.

[Jason James]

Indeed,..my Camry split from one fan-mounting screw boss along the top
horizontally. The plastic as such reminds me of bakelite.

Jason

[Jason James]

I remember the Ford Cuzzo's would fracture their brass header-tanks
due too sharp an angle pressings.

Jason

[Sylvia Else]

Quite often, when I find things that have cracked, my immediate thought
is "I could have told you it would crack there." Perhaps I'm just being
wise after the event, but one sees too many sharp corners where the
stress on the component will tend to expand the corner angle, and then
release it, repeatedly.

Sylvia.

[Noddy]

On 09/06/13 3:23 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:

> Stress concentration due to bad design. Some designers seem to think
> they're working with steel. Crimping plastic? Sounds to me like it's
> asking for touble.

It would probably be if that's actually what they were doing, but
they're not. With "modern" plastic tank/aluminium core radiators, the
core is crimped around the edge of the tank, and it's the aluminium that
is crimped, not the plastic.





--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Noddy]

On 09/06/13 4:12 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:

> Quite often, when I find things that have cracked, my immediate thought
> is "I could have told you it would crack there." Perhaps I'm just being
> wise after the event, but one sees too many sharp corners where the
> stress on the component will tend to expand the corner angle, and then
> release it, repeatedly.

Nothing is designed to last forever. There's no money in that.



--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Sylvia Else]

If something fails after one year, I'm not going to buy a replacement
from the same manufacturer. If it fails after five, I might.

Sylvia.

[Sylvia Else]

Sounds like it will put localised stress on the plastic. I bet you can
find some right-angle indendations there, even if they're not large.
That's all you need as the origin of a crack.

Sylvia.

[jonz]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Another Non comment from the maestro.................

[D Walford]

Most car radiators have had plastic tanks for a very long time, at least
25yrs and probably longer and they seem to be reliable enough.



Daryl

[D Walford]

Maybe but they are generally very reliable, probably more reliable than
older brass radiators, brass radiators are more easily repaired but if
anything they are more prone to cracks and leaks.


Daryl

[Noddy]

On 09/06/13 4:31 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:

> Sounds like it will put localised stress on the plastic.

Not really. All the crimping does is "sandwich" a seal between the
plastic tank and the aluminium core.

> I bet you can find some right-angle indendations there, even if they're not large.
> That's all you need as the origin of a crack.

You have no idea what you're talking about.



--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Noddy]

On 09/06/13 4:29 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:

> If something fails after one year, I'm not going to buy a replacement
> from the same manufacturer. If it fails after five, I might.

Good for you.



--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Blue Heeler]

Sylvia Else wrote:

> > >
> > > One thing is,..what caused the split?
> >
> Stress concentration due to bad design. Some designers seem to think
> they're working with steel. Crimping plastic? Sounds to me like it's
> asking for touble.
>

I'd say someone leaning on the "spigot' that the radiator cap is
mounted on.

Possibly a design flaw to have not been made with that in mind,
alternatively the dickhead who leaned on the thing could have been more
gentle.



--

[Albm&ctd]

In article <b1g4u1...@mid.individual.net>, wo...@bark.net says...

I tried to repair one a years ago and it was a failure after a few months. New
is the only way to go.

Al
--
I don't take sides.
It's more fun to insult everyone.

[Albm&ctd]

In article <8c3041c3-8c02-471f...@qn4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>,
5sf...@hotmail.com.au says...

> Indeed,..my Camry split from one fan-mounting screw boss along the top
> horizontally. The plastic as such reminds me of bakelite.
>

The Merc top tank was made from compressed corn flakes :) New rad $500.
The Pintara was $300... still got it if some poor bastard needs one.
But that's plastic shit for you, unlike the old metal tanks.

ps: I fixed the Lada top tank split with 20c of solder.

[Albm&ctd]

In article <kp199p$5ad$1...@dont-email.me>, m...@wardengineering.com.au says...

Chook eggs probably.

[Albm&ctd]

In article <b1ivck...@mid.individual.net>, wo...@bark.net says...

Lots of newer cars have an overflow bottle and the cap never gets taken off.
Stuck cap seal leads to pressure build up. Guess who takes the cap off.
Disclaimer applies to protect the scalded fuck*ng idiots who may remove it when
the engine is hot.

[PhilD]

I had a custom radiator made up for a Range Rover. They used a core
twice the thickness and made tanks from brass plate. They only used
the fittings off of the old radiator. Whatever they used for jointing
it failed after a couple of years but had it re done and still going
30+ years later.

[Clocky]

If by "few" you mean 15 years and 230,000km in the case of my VR then
the Holden spare parts people wouldn't have been too happy.

[Clocky]

Sylvia Else wrote:
>
>> Jason James wrote:
>>> On Jun 8, 5:31 pm, "Blue Heeler" <w...@bark.net> wrote:
>>>> Got a split in the top tank of a radiator - plastic tank crimped to
>>>> alloy core.
>>>>
>>>> Is it a realistic prospect to attempt a weld or glue repair? Not even
>>>> considering replacing tank as can buy brand new radiator for $85 + $10
>>>> freight.
>>>>
>>>> If glue repair feasible, what sort of glue to use?
>>>> --
>>>
>>> One thing is,..what caused the split?
>>
> Stress concentration due to bad design.

Nope.

Some designers seem to think
> they're working with steel. Crimping plastic? Sounds to me like it's
> asking for touble.
>
> Sylvia.
>

They crimp the aluminium, not the plastic... sheez.

[Clocky]

As per usual ;-)

[Clocky]

Yeah, reminds me of some clown who was about to remove his cap from his
severely overheated Sigma in a car park some years ago. Despite my
insistence that it was a really bad idea he told me "fuck off dickhead".

Nek minnit spot the dickhead getting fucked off into the shopping centre
holding his face.

[Clocky]

That's where the thermal cycling does it's part.

[John_H]

Albm&ctd wrote:
>
>Lots of newer cars have an overflow bottle and the cap never gets taken off.
>Stuck cap seal leads to pressure build up. Guess who takes the cap off.

The other reason for removing the cap regularly is to make sure there
isn't an air space in the top tank. Modern inhibitors don't work very
very well unless the coolant is in complete contact with all of the
cooling system's internals.

Similarly, such inhibitors aren't very well suited to older systems
with metal tanks and no overflow bottle.

--
John H

[John McKenzie]

Blue Heeler wrote:
>
> Got a split in the top tank of a radiator - plastic tank crimped to
> alloy core.
>
> Is it a realistic prospect to attempt a weld or glue repair? Not even
> considering replacing tank as can buy brand new radiator for $85 + $10
> freight.
>
> If glue repair feasible, what sort of glue to use?

This would cost about $5-10 so you might consider it as research.
Anyhoo, if I was in your shoes, I'd try plastic welding, using
(drumroll) plastic from another stuffed radiator from a wrecking yard
(you'd likely get it free). After that was done, I'd then sprinkle a
layer of bicarb soda over the area (and about 1cm out in each direction,
then apply super glue. Then more bicarb over the top. It'll set very
hard (gets pretty warm if you get any on your fingers). You can then
sand lightly and repeat, going 1cm further outward, or just leave as is.

In terms of strength, that's the precise method I used to repair a
broken fitting on a karcher high pressure sprayer (the low pressure side
- dealing with hose pressure) It is still working and it's been years -
probably more than 10 years - since I actualy did the repair.

I actually used this method just this weekend to repair a car stereo
(the removable face locking lug retainer had cracked and it wouldn't
hold it in place and that prevented proper contact being made, so the
stereo wasn't working. Yay, another freebie.

I've used this combo for ages, found out about it a long time ago. more
recently I've seen a new combo product in spare parts places that has
super glue and their 'magic wonder super secret powder' to make stronger
repairs with. I'm not about to spend 3-4 times as much as the cost of a
tube of superglue just to verify, but I'd be pretty confident that their
magic fairy dust is just regular bi-carb soda.

--
John McKenzie

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[Blue Heeler]

Paul Saccani wrote:

> >> If glue repair feasible, what sort of glue to use?
> >
> > This would cost about $5-10 so you might consider it as research.
> > Anyhoo, if I was in your shoes, I'd try plastic welding, using
> > (drumroll) plastic from another stuffed radiator from a wrecking
> > yard (you'd likely get it free). After that was done, I'd then
> > sprinkle a layer of bicarb soda over the area (and about 1cm out in
> > each direction, then apply super glue. Then more bicarb over the
> > top. It'll set very hard (gets pretty warm if you get any on your
> > fingers). You can then sand lightly and repeat, going 1cm further
> > outward, or just leave as is.
>

> This mix is routinely used in the repair of wood and composite
> propeller blades - it is really tough and does grip well. Other
> things that can be used to improve the properties of super glue are
> acyrlic/perspex filings and glass micro spheres.

I regret to say that once i found I could buy a new radiator for under
$100 delivered, I lost my spirit of adventure.

--

[Noddy]

On 13/06/13 8:55 PM, Blue Heeler wrote:

> I regret to say that once i found I could buy a new radiator for under
> $100 delivered, I lost my spirit of adventure.

There's nothing wrong with that.

The handbrake release knob in the Jeep Cherokee I had some years ago
suddenly flew off the end of the handbrake lever in two pieces one day
rendering the handbrake inoperable, and due to the particular way the
whole lever was made the knob wasn't available as a replacement part and
the whole lever assembly had to be replaced as a unit.

I declared that I was going to be fucked if I was paying just shy of 200
bucks to replace a 3 buck plastic button regardless of how these silly
pricks decided to design their lever assembly, and I decided to make a
replacement myself out of aluminium.

So, I spent the day removing the handbrake lever, unpicking a couple of
welds that allowed me to get the threaded rod out of the handle and
replace the knob and the making of the knob itself which, due to it's
shape took some time. It all had to then be re-assembled, welded, put
back into it's cover than then reinstalled.

In the end it worked just fine and no one ever knew any different which
is essentially what you want to achieve. But with all the fart-arsing of
making the knob itself it took a whole day to do, and it would have been
quicker and easier just to pay the 200 clams and buy a new handbrake lever.





--
--
Regards,
Noddy.