VB 253 V8 Needs more power. Help meeeeeee!
Dix_McBird
Well, thanks all for having a look at this.
My VB is gonna get a new shell soon as all but the running gear is in
terrible condition. So while the engine's out i'd like to kick a little
more power out of it. But can't spend too much, probably $1000 to $1500.
So, its a 253 red motor without many mods.
its got a Clive sports cam, not sure on exact specs. (Fairly mild i
think)
Extractors
Quadrajet Carb
The engine was reco'd about 3 years ago so is in pretty good cond.
Just looking at engine work, its got a decent diff and an aussie 4sp
box.
So what do you guys think? What would be the best stuff to go for in
the price range to get most out of it.
Thanks all.
--
Dix_McBird
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
jackbadger56
Posted 2 hours ago and no replies?
I hope you're not just being toyed with! ;-)
Noddy
"Dix_McBird" <Dix_McBi...@no-mx.phorums.com.au> wrote in message
news:Dix_McBi...@no-mx.phorums.com.au...
>
> Well, thanks all for having a look at this.
> My VB is gonna get a new shell soon as all but the running gear is in
> terrible condition. So while the engine's out i'd like to kick a little
> more power out of it. But can't spend too much, probably $1000 to $1500.
Why not just buy a decent car?
I mean, if you need a new shell and the running gear is buggered, what's
good on it?
> So, its a 253 red motor without many mods.
You have my sympathies :)
> its got a Clive sports cam, not sure on exact specs. (Fairly mild i
> think)
Either try to find the specs on the cam or throw it in the nearest bin.
Fitting a camshaft with an unknown profile and hoping it works is like going
to see a blind dentist and hoping he drills the correct tooth.
> Extractors
Always a good start, but be mindful of the fact that there are good and bad
ones.
> Quadrajet Carb
Not my personal choice, actually I *hate* them, but plenty of people swear
by the things. I'd pick a Holley any day over a Rotty purely for the ease of
maintenance/tuning ability if nothing else.
> The engine was reco'd about 3 years ago so is in pretty good cond.
> Just looking at engine work, its got a decent diff and an aussie 4sp
> box.
Aussie 4 speeds are not terribly strong, so if you stand on the power much
it's not at all unreasonable to expect problems.
> So what do you guys think? What would be the best stuff to go for in
> the price range to get most out of it.
Far and away, the easiest and quickest power upgrade for a 253 is to pull it
out, throw it in the nearest dumpster (or sell it to some other poor idiot
who thinks it's a good idea to play around with a useless small capacity V8)
and swap it for a 308. Everything is a straight bolt in deal without a
single modification needed, and it'll produce more power for the money than
anything you can reasonably expect for the same budget from a 253.
That said, if you absolutely *must* stick with the 253 (and I personally
don't know why anyone would, but anyway), what you will get out of it will
depend entirely on what you throw at it. A budget of $1000-1500 isn't going
to do a hell of a lot. Especially if you're paying someone else to do the
work.
1500 bucks would get you a half decent set of pipes, a 4 barrel manifold, a
good cam and *maybe* stretch to a second hand pair of decent heads. It'll
wake the thing up noticeably, but still leave you short compared to what a 4
barrel 308 would provide without having to resort to cam swaps.
Avoid "shiny" things like roller rockers or billet distributors when you're
on that kind of budget, as while they look pretty they'll make zero
difference to the engine's performance.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
John McKenzie
>
> Well, thanks all for having a look at this.
> My VB is gonna get a new shell soon as all but the running gear is in
> terrible condition. So while the engine's out i'd like to kick a little
> more power out of it. But can't spend too much, probably $1000 to $1500.
>
> So, its a 253 red motor without many mods.
> its got a Clive sports cam, not sure on exact specs. (Fairly mild i
> think)
> Extractors
> Quadrajet Carb
> The engine was reco'd about 3 years ago so is in pretty good cond.
> Just looking at engine work, its got a decent diff and an aussie 4sp
> box.
> So what do you guys think? What would be the best stuff to go for in
> the price range to get most out of it.
> Thanks all.
You won't like the answer, nobody asking about a 253 does, but here it
is.
For that money the ONLY thing that makes sense is going to a 308.
HERE is the why. If you don't agree with it tough.
The 253 is just too small to make good power. The 308 still struggles
relatively due to lack of capacity, but it's a HELL of a lot better.
If you did nothing else but swap your current gear (heads cam intake
exhaust) onto a 308 you'd pick up about 50bhp or a touch more. AND more
importantly 50 ft lbs of torque.
AT LEAST. that's because the 308 isn't just bigger. The much bigger bore
means that the bore walls themselves don't shroud (cover up) available
valve open areas and so the same head actually flows a little more when
actually on a 308 block than on a 253 block. AND it'll almost certainly
have a higher compression ratio - more capacity squeezed into the same
combustion chamber.
AND - you're probably aware that designing extractors requires that you
select the primary pipe diameter based on the capacity of each cylinder
and the rpm range you want to target. WELL here's the drama - the 253
has such small capacity per cylinder - you can't actually get off the
shelf extractors that will boost torque in an appropriate rpm range for
a 253 - nobody makes them small enough. The smallest you can get would
put it out of any realistic rpm range. Hell, it's still hard to get it
good for a 308, but nowhere near as woeful. Yes they'll still give a
gain over std clogged up exhaust, but nowhere near what they might when
properly sized.
Horsepower is a product of torque and rpm.
HP = torque x rpm / 5252
*(so if you know the torque and the rpm, or the horsepower and the rpm
you can calculate the other one)
If you produce the same torque at double the rpm, you double the power.
Why does this even matter? Well, you can only make so much torque
realistically. It's a product of the engine size and it's volumetric
efficiency (how well it fills the cylinders) and you aren't going to get
it above 100% on a streeter. If you were lucky, you might make around
245 ft lbs of torque (at the peak, and remember it's lower everywhere
else) from a 253. The same exact combo in a 308 would be near 308 t lbs.
That's LITERALLY more than a 20% gain. By around 5252rpm, a decent
street 308 might make say 300bhp. (let's say this for the sake of
argument, it might in real life make a little more and do it at say
5200rpm, or whatever, but the general range is about there, and at least
this makes the math easier). To get the 253 to make that much power - if
you achieve it at all (and you likely wouldn't for that budget) - will:
HP = torque x rpm / 5252
300 = torque x 5252/ 5252
300 = 300
*(yep - at 5252 rpm the horsepower and torque are identical in an
engine, by virtue of the relative units of measurement, there's nothing
magical about this rpm point really)
The 253 has only 82% of the capacity of the 308, and since we've talked
about torque and engine size/volumetric efficiency, we know it'll be
roughly equivalent (actually a little worse) so we can use that 80% for
something. If it's 82% (82.14% if you care) capacity then it needs to
spin at (use the 1/x button on a calculator to find this, alternately
divide 308 by 253) 1.2174 times (or 121.74%) as many rpms to make the
same power.
SO just to break even you'd have to spin it to at least 6400rpm. Of
course to get the bottom end to hang together well with an extra 1000rpm
would be tougher, and it'd require a more expensive valvetrain. it'd
need more lift and duration to do it too. And that'd make for a shitful
idle, no low-mid range power. Here's even more bad news - a cam that
would have a lumpy idle and no mid range in a 253 will be a smooth idle
and nice and tractable setup in a larger 308 - bigger capacity tames the
cam. Yet another point to lose.
AND worse still = At that rpm, it wouldn't actually be making as much
torque as the 308 was at 5252rpm - let's do the math
HP = torque x rpm / 5252
We know the horspower - (since we were talking about the rpm needed to
make that power)
300 = torque x 6393 /5252 (6393 rpm the actual figure, though in
practice it'd be more)
so it'd only be making 246 ft lbs of torque at that rpm vs 300 from the
308. (which funnily enough backs up my estimate earlier)
SO whilst it makes the same power, it makes far less torque. So if you
just put it together like that, the 253 would not actually accelerate
like the 308 would - because it's got a lot less torque! And it idles
like crap etc.
Let's assume the car currently has a 3.08 diff ratio (which ratio it has
is less important than the message). The ONLY way to get the performance
to match is to increase the torque available at the wheels. the 308 does
it by boosting the torque. Now that you've got the high revving 253 let
down, there's only one option - change the diff ratio. A higher diff
ratio (higher numerical ratio, which gets confusing because that's
usually called lower gearing by most - both are true the 'number' goes
up, the gearing is lower). To get it back to even stevens, you'd have to
run 3.7:1 gears. Not likely an available ratio. So what option is there
- 3.9 in a small salisbury? That would just barely match the 308 in
performance (in fact due to less output lower down it'd actually have
more trouble off the line, so you'd need to run a looser convertor, or
tear up the clutch.
So you've got something that doesn't idle well, needs an expensive valve
train, has to run at close to 4000rpm on the freeway at legal speeds,
won't last (the higher the rpm, the shorter the life), gets shitful fuel
economy (since the hotter cam makes it an inefficient pig down low) -
and it'll only JUST BARELY keep up with a mild 308 that will last
longer, be more pleasant to drive, etc etc etc.
Within your budget you could EASILY find a 308 block, give it a
reasonable rebuild (rings and bearings), put the parts from the 253 onto
it, and maybe get the heads ported a little (pocket ported, but leave
that off for now, and look for a set of second hand yella terras - they
aren't the best ported heads in the world, but offer excellent value for
money as far as ported heads go).
---------
Now that's the truth, and that's the why. Feel free to ignore it and ask
the question elsewhere until some idiot who has no understanding of the
above tells you what you want to hear.
The 253 for peformance is about as logical for performance as Michael
Jackson is as a carer at a child minding centre.
If you have a 253, then the only things that make sense are stuff that
doesn't cost the earth. Once you start spending real money on them, it's
ridiculous not to look for a 308. To that end, you've gone as far as you
can realistically go - the 4 barrel inlet, the quaddie, extractors and
cam. Anything more is just unjustifiable. The only reason to spend
bigger money on a 253 is if you _have_ to run one to fit into a racing
category, so you have no choice.
--
John McKenzie
tos...@aol.com ab...@yahoo.com ab...@hotmail.com ab...@earthlink.com
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Slip
"Dix_McBird" <Dix_McBi...@no-mx.phorums.com.au> wrote in message
news:Dix_McBi...@no-mx.phorums.com.au...
>
Sounds like it's not worth the costs involved if everything else is stuffed.
Just buy another and save your dollars.
The 253 was best used in boats as anchors. The Clive sports cam is nothing
to write home about. The extractors will help but that's about it but buy a
good set as there are dodgy ones out there. Quadrajet Carbs are difficult to
maintain/adjust, not like a Holley for example which were good carbys in the
days of carbys. What are you calling a decent diff? The aussie 4 speeder was
nothing to write home about and under load you will have more problems than
Flash Gordon. Have you considered doing away with the 253 and just replace
it with a bigger 8 like a 308? If my memory serves me correctly, it should
virtually bolt straight in. Better engine, much more power and less expense.
That's what I'd be doing if I were you.
Regards,
Slip
jackbadger56
> "Dix_McBird" <Dix_McBird.30z...@no-mx.phorums.com.au> wrote in message
".....all BUT the running gear is in terrible condition"
I take it from that statement that the body is fucked (but being
sorted) but the engine gearbox etc is fine, needing a bit 'o
tweaking. ;-)
monsya
> ab...@aol.com vice.presid...@whitehouse.gov presid...@whitehouse.gov
> sweep....@accc.gov.au u...@ftc.gov admin@loopback ab...@iprimus.com.au
> $LOGIN@localhost world's #1 sardine whisperer r...@mailloop.com
> $USER@$HOST $LOGNAME@localhost -h1024@localhost ab...@msn.com
> ab...@federalpolice.gov.au fraudi...@psinet.com ab...@asio.gov.au
> $USER@localhost ab...@sprint.com ab...@fbi.gov ab...@cia.gov
So, what you are saying is turbo/super charge it :)
It's good to see a technical explanation for it. I guess 308 blocks
should be very cheap now. Are they exactly the same blocks as used in
the 304's (other than the capacity!) or did other things change as
well? I know the 304 obviously had the 'EFI' heads and so on.
Dale.
John McKenzie
>
> It's good to see a technical explanation for it. I guess 308 blocks
> should be very cheap now. Are they exactly the same blocks as used in
> the 304's (other than the capacity!) or did other things change as
> well?
Good question - and one I don't have an good answer for. The pre efi
blocks changed around the time they went blue. I'm not sure how far
along it happened, but there seems to be a significant difference in the
material used to make them. The red ones are the pick in that respect.
All of them have more or less the same power potential (if you used the
same heads/combo on each block) but likely not the longevity.
> I know the 304 obviously had the 'EFI' heads and so on.
There is the fact that the heads had a different intake/exhaust layout
so the cam, intake manifold, extractors all have to be changed to run
efi heads. Gets expensive. Having said that, I'd still favour std efi
heads over all but the best ported pre efi heads for a streeter. There's
some evidence the efi heads don't produce quite as much mid range torque
(probably a velocity issue) but it's not enough to worry imho and it's
only true if the pre efi heads are expertly done, there's no comparison
between stock heads.
-
--
John McKenzie
tos...@aol.com ab...@yahoo.com ab...@hotmail.com ab...@earthlink.com
ab...@aol.com vice.pr...@whitehouse.gov pres...@whitehouse.gov
swee...@accc.gov.au u...@ftc.gov admin@loopback ab...@iprimus.com.au
$LOGIN@localhost world's #1 sardine whisperer ro...@mailloop.com
$USER@$HOST $LOGNAME@localhost -h1024@localhost ab...@msn.com
ab...@federalpolice.gov.au frau...@psinet.com ab...@asio.gov.au
$USER@localhost ab...@sprint.com ab...@fbi.gov ab...@cia.gov
Dix_McBird
"If you have a 253, then the only things that make sense are stuff that
doesn't cost the earth. Once you start spending real money on them,
it's
ridiculous not to look for a 308. To that end, you've gone as far as
you
can realistically go - the 4 barrel inlet, the quaddie, extractors and
cam. Anything more is just unjustifiable. The only reason to spend
bigger money on a 253 is if you _have_ to run one to fit into a racing
category, so you have no choice."
Thanks for the input. I realise spending money on this engine is
stupid, but as it's in decent condition, i kinda feel like i have to
keep it. I'll take on board all said but its not a race car. It's just
for a bit of fun.
I haven't spent any $$ on it yet, the stuff mentioned - carb,
extractors etc. is what's on it already. Everything is in good cond.
(excluding the body)
and i was thinking of throwing the running gear in a new body (not sure
yet).
So basically, what your saying is to get power out of it, and keep in
mind i'm not looking for heaps, i'd have to spend piles of wasted cash.
Are there suitable heads for a decent price? Or is it just a waste of
time looking. I'm not looking to make huge mods, or get heaps out of
it. I just like the thing for some stupid reason.
"".....all BUT the running gear is in terrible condition"
I take it from that statement that the body is f***ed (but being
sorted) but the engine gearbox etc is fine, needing a bit 'o
tweaking. ;-)"
That is exactly right.
John McKenzie
>
> "Dix_McBird" <Dix_McBi...@no-mx.phorums.com.au> wrote in message
> news:Dix_McBi...@no-mx.phorums.com.au...
> >
> > Well, thanks all for having a look at this.
> > My VB is gonna get a new shell soon as all but the running gear is in
> > terrible condition. So while the engine's out i'd like to kick a little
> > more power out of it. But can't spend too much, probably $1000 to $1500.
>
> Why not just buy a decent car?
>
> I mean, if you need a new shell and the running gear is buggered, what's
> good on it?
>
> > So, its a 253 red motor without many mods.
>
> You have my sympathies :)
>
> > its got a Clive sports cam, not sure on exact specs. (Fairly mild i
> > think)
>
> Either try to find the specs on the cam or throw it in the nearest bin.
> Fitting a camshaft with an unknown profile and hoping it works is like going
> to see a blind dentist and hoping he drills the correct tooth.
How did you know that without growing up behind the iron curtain?
The only thing I'll say in defence here is that the way I read it he had
already fitted the clive cam to the existing motor during the rebuild.
If experience of a few people I know is anything to go by, Clive does a
good job of asking the right questions, and providing a suitable
profile, (and the actual machine work is good, and he checks all lifters
before sending them out - one of the only places not to be caught out
when a huge run of lifters came out with completely flat footprints and
chewed cams like joan kirner chewed through the state assets.
> > Extractors
>
> Always a good start, but be mindful of the fact that there are good and bad
> ones.
>
> > Quadrajet Carb
>
> Not my personal choice, actually I *hate* them, but plenty of people swear
> by the things. I'd pick a Holley any day over a Rotty purely for the ease of
> maintenance/tuning ability if nothing else.
Of course that brings up another issue. The only one that fits without
an adapter plate is the spreadbore design, which have design differences
so aren't 'just' a squarebore holley with different throttle sizes and
bolt pattern. Yes of course they can be sorted well (I'm actually within
arms reach of one I've recently done for a mates 308 in his brougham -
the 'gimp suit' guy you've met) but they aren't as good as the
spreadbores.
The biggest issues with the quaddy is that they are well setup from the
factory for a std engine (all things considered) but you better find out
WHICH they were originally on, and set them up to suit the current one,
or they'll get all the usual hate mail about quaddies - it's not
necessarily the carb - it's the setup. So that means you _need_ to have
someone who can set them up right. IF you can't facilitate that, then
even the best carb in the world has fuck all going for it. A lot more
people seem to be able to get holleys up and on their feet, so in some
ways that makes them a better option.
Frankly either have been used to success in various racing over the
years. You'd probably find (just due to the sheer range of sizes and
aftermarket) that holleys get the nod more often. But I'll put it this
way - take the worlds best driver or carby expert. Take 2 identical
cars. fit one with a completely sorted quaddy, and one with a holley,
and neither of them would be able to work out which had which by driving
them, they'd have to pop the bonnet.
If you _are_ going to go quaddie, get a book called (rather cryptically)
'rochester carburettors' by Doug Roe. I've had a read of it, and it's
not bad. Best of all it gives you the run down on how carbs actually
work, so you can venture forth on your own.
If the budget stretches a touch further
http://www.cliffshighperformance.com/buy_book_2.html has received some
good reports too. I'd but the other one first (haven't seen the other
personally) to get the 'basics' of their function down, then the latter
to get it perfect.
John McKenzie
>
> "If you have a 253, then the only things that make sense are stuff that
> doesn't cost the earth. Once you start spending real money on them,
> it's
> ridiculous not to look for a 308. To that end, you've gone as far as
> you
> can realistically go - the 4 barrel inlet, the quaddie, extractors and
> cam. Anything more is just unjustifiable. The only reason to spend
> bigger money on a 253 is if you _have_ to run one to fit into a racing
> category, so you have no choice."
>
> Thanks for the input. I realise spending money on this engine is
> stupid, but as it's in decent condition, i kinda feel like i have to
> keep it.
The longer you hang on to that feeling, the more it'll end up
frustrating you. No amount of wishful thinking will turn the sky green.
I'll take on board all said but its not a race car. It's just
> for a bit of fun.
I realise that - and even at that level, the 253 next to impossible to
justify. You've got the weight penalty of the v8 engine, same as a 308,
heavier than a 202, and bugger all extra power. God only knows why the
fuck holden made them. If they were smart the 308 would have been the
base model, and the other v8 should have been one with a longer stroke -
and 340-350 cubic inches
> I haven't spent any $$ on it yet, the stuff mentioned - carb,
> extractors etc. is what's on it already.
I understand that - and that's what I'm saying - they are the things
that are available relatively cheaply, since they were available on more
holden v8s from the factory, or are mass produced in enough quantity to
have the price reasonable. And that's where you should realistically
stop. You'll think I'm kidding - but go out and pull off 2 spark leads
and drive the car around the block. That's about the difference in power
(rough running notwithstanding) you'll get from a 308 with all the same
running gear.
Everything is in good cond.
> (excluding the body)
> and i was thinking of throwing the running gear in a new body (not sure
> yet).
> So basically, what your saying is to get power out of it, and keep in
> mind i'm not looking for heaps, i'd have to spend piles of wasted cash.
yes - even for what would amount to small gains. You have to consider
the weight of the car etc, it just won't move well without higher power,
or more torque mutliplication.
The only thing that would get you some zip for not too much more money
would be to change the diff ratio - but don't go too far as it's a case
of rapidly diminishing returns - esp if the motor runs out of steam by
or before 5000rpm.
The only other thing I can suggest - if it doesn't already have it - is
the hei ignition from the later models (it was VC that got it first I
think?). It'll make some difference to starting and throttle response
over an A1 points ignition, and if the points ign is in a worn/neglected
state, it'll make a considerable difference. Since there's no drawback
to it, and it leads to smoother runnning, idle and potentially better
fuel economy (it'll happily fire a leaner mixture for part throttle
cruise) - I'd go with it.
> Are there suitable heads for a decent price? Or is it just a waste of
> time looking. I'm not looking to make huge mods, or get heaps out of
> it. I just like the thing for some stupid reason.
For the money you'd spend on second hand yt heads (or getting your own
set done) - it'd still be easily beaten by a 308 with the existing combo
thrown on it. There's absolutely nothing that is going to change it. If
you are even thinking about the expense of heads, find a 308 block. The
last one my mate did, he got it for $200 with a turbo 350 behind it.
That is now in his hq coupe with efi heads running low 13s from a fairly
reasonably streetable combo.
monsya
wrote:
> "If you have a 253, then the only things that make sense are stuff that
> doesn't cost the earth. Once you start spending real money on them,
> it's
> ridiculous not to look for a 308. To that end, you've gone as far as
> you
> can realistically go - the 4 barrel inlet, the quaddie, extractors and
> cam. Anything more is just unjustifiable. The only reason to spend
> bigger money on a 253 is if you _have_ to run one to fit into a racing
> category, so you have no choice."
>
> Thanks for the input. I realise spending money on this engine is
> stupid, but as it's in decent condition, i kinda feel like i have to
> keep it. I'll take on board all said but its not a race car. It's just
> for a bit of fun.
If it makes you feel any better, I have read the same arguments many
times in Street Machine over the years. For what it's worth, it sounds
like you can just get a 308 block and swap everything over and you're
away. It sounds like a complex swap, but I think if you are doing
yourself, it wouldn't be too bad. I suspect there would be problems
with rego either.
> I haven't spent any $$ on it yet, the stuff mentioned - carb,
> extractors etc. is what's on it already. Everything is in good cond.
> (excluding the body)
> and i was thinking of throwing the running gear in a new body (not sure
> yet).
> So basically, what your saying is to get power out of it, and keep in
> mind i'm not looking for heaps, i'd have to spend piles of wasted cash.
>
> Are there suitable heads for a decent price? Or is it just a waste of
> time looking. I'm not looking to make huge mods, or get heaps out of
> it. I just like the thing for some stupid reason.
Keep the same heads, and put them on the 308 block.
Noddy
"John McKenzie" <jmac_me...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:475398...@bigpond.com...
> How did you know that without growing up behind the iron curtain?
I heard a rumor.
> The only thing I'll say in defence here is that the way I read it he had
> already fitted the clive cam to the existing motor during the rebuild.
He may have, but I took it that he had a standard engine and had the bits
laying around to whack on it.
> Of course that brings up another issue. The only one that fits without
> an adapter plate is the spreadbore design, which have design differences
> so aren't 'just' a squarebore holley with different throttle sizes and
> bolt pattern. Yes of course they can be sorted well (I'm actually within
> arms reach of one I've recently done for a mates 308 in his brougham -
> the 'gimp suit' guy you've met) but they aren't as good as the
> spreadbores.
No, they're not, but the secondaries sound great when they open :)
> Frankly either have been used to success in various racing over the
> years. You'd probably find (just due to the sheer range of sizes and
> aftermarket) that holleys get the nod more often. But I'll put it this
> way - take the worlds best driver or carby expert. Take 2 identical
> cars. fit one with a completely sorted quaddy, and one with a holley,
> and neither of them would be able to work out which had which by driving
> them, they'd have to pop the bonnet.
Agreed.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
> Are there suitable heads for a decent price? Or is it just a waste of
> time looking. I'm not looking to make huge mods, or get heaps out of
> it. I just like the thing for some stupid reason.
In a word, no.
In a bunch of words, it's a VB Dunny with a body that needs to b replaced,
and the chances of finding a replacement that's much better are slim at best
unless you pay an arm & leg for it. If you do it'll *still* be a VB dunny
with a 253.
If you want a cheap car that performs well, here's what I'd do.
I'd either fuck the VB off as it is or wreck the thing and sell of the bits.
I'd put the money that generated with the 1500 bucks you planned for mods
towards a later model car (if you're a Commodore fan you'll be getting into
6 cylinder VR territory for a couple of grand these days) and you'll end up
with a car that'll snot the 253 powered VB performance wise as well as being
a *much* nicer drive and more economical.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Andy
Hell, you can pick up older (VN/P/R) 5.0L EFI powered Commodores for
$2000-$2500 these days.
Albm&ctd
Dix_McBi...@no-mx.phorums.com.au says...
>
> Well, thanks all for having a look at this.
> My VB is gonna get a new shell soon as all but the running gear is in
> terrible condition. So while the engine's out i'd like to kick a little
> more power out of it. But can't spend too much, probably $1000 to $1500.
>
> So, its a 253 red motor without many mods.
> its got a Clive sports cam, not sure on exact specs. (Fairly mild i
> think)
> Extractors
> Quadrajet Carb
> The engine was reco'd about 3 years ago so is in pretty good cond.
> Just looking at engine work, its got a decent diff and an aussie 4sp
> box.
> So what do you guys think? What would be the best stuff to go for in
> the price range to get most out of it.
> Thanks all.
>
Al
--
I don't take sides.
It's more fun to insult everyone.
http://kwakakid.cjb.net/insult.html
Albm&ctd
m...@home.com says...
> Avoid "shiny" things like roller rockers or billet distributors when you're
> on that kind of budget, as while they look pretty they'll make zero
> difference to the engine's performance.
>
>
sg...@hotmail.com
Thanks John - I wish I could have shown this to a young guy I was
talking to only a month or so ago.
In defence of the 253, however, at least it's not a Ford 250. :-)
Cheers,
Steve
Noddy
<sg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b5a00fcd-d950-4e5f...@s36g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> In defence of the 253, however, at least it's not a Ford 250. :-)
Well, the Ford 250 delivers around the same power & torque without V8 fuel
economy :)
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Daryl Walford
What wrong with a Ford 250?
Its a vastly better engine than a 253.
Daryl
Dan----
> <sg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:b5a00fcd-
d950-4e5f-81e...@s36g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>
>> In defence of the 253, however, at least it's not a Ford 250. :-)
>
> Well, the Ford 250 delivers around the same power & torque without V8
> fuel economy :)
Well say 2% better of fuel.
Although the 253 does sound better though have to give it that. ;-)
--
Regards
Dan
Noddy
"Dan----" <fuggo...@spamfree.com> wrote in message
news:13lad4e...@corp.supernews.com...
> Well say 2% better of fuel.
> Although the 253 does sound better though have to give it that. ;-)
Only just :)
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Klompmeester
"Noddy" <m...@home.com> wrote in message
news:47553d59$0$58250$c30e...@lon-reader.news.telstra.net...
Hardly. The only good thing about the 253 is the note, the 250 doesn't even
have that!
Klompmeester
"Daryl Walford" <dwal...@internode.on.net> wrote in message
news:13la3mt...@corp.supernews.com...
LOL, good one.
zb
> Dix_McBird wrote:
>> So, its a 253 red motor without many mods.
>> Thanks all.
> You won't like the answer, nobody asking about a 253 does, but here it
> is. For that money the ONLY thing that makes sense is going to a 308.
<snip>
> Now that's the truth, and that's the why. Feel free to ignore it and ask
> the question elsewhere until some idiot who has no understanding of the
> above tells you what you want to hear.
John,
That's got to be one of the best and well written replies to a question
on this Newsgroup I have ever seen!
Congratulations for spending the time to explain this. I for one have
saved your reply and will be referring to it in future.
Well done!
__
zb
John McKenzie
any time :)