Commodore question
Axle Jack
There is a light on the dash which is the shape of an engine with an
exclamation mark in it. I assume this is to let me know its due a service,
is that right?
Also, what actually makes the light go on, and I appreciate that this may be
a few different things. Oil pressure? fuel pressure? oil level?
The reason I ask is that today after a heavily laden haul up a long mountain
pass, the next time I started the motor, the light stayed on for a minute.
The engine has not done to many Kms and is in perfect condition. I'm
changing the oil and giving it the full going over tomorrow, but I was
curious what that light is meant to tell me.
If anyone can advise, I'd be very grateful. I've ordered a manual but it
hasn't arrived yet.
cheers all
Jack
axle...@dingoblue.net.au
Dan--
Axle Jack wrote:
>
> I've just bought a 1991 commodore VN 3.8.
> There is a light on the dash which is the shape of an engine with an
> exclamation mark in it. I assume this is to let me know its due a service,
> is that right?
Nope its to check engine there may be a fault somewhere.
--
Regards
Dan
Remove VP.SS.5.7 from the end of the email before sending me an Email.
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Adam Seidel
Adam Seidel
"Axle Jack" <axle...@REMOVE-TO-REPLYdingoblue.net.au> wrote in message
news:39f142e2$0$11605$7f31...@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au...
> I've just bought a 1991 commodore VN 3.8.
> There is a light on the dash which is the shape of an engine with an
> exclamation mark in it. I assume this is to let me know its due a service,
> is that right?
Alan
a fault. Going by what you say you were doing at the time I would bet both
balls you have a oxygen sensor fault . This would have been exaggerated by
the long high load with wide open throttle. Put in a new O2 sensor and
things will be sweet.
Alan
NerVous WreK
"Alan" <antispam...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:ilfI5.7353$Ab3....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> The light is the 'check engine light" . When it comes on the ECU has
logged
> a fault. Going by what you say you were doing at the time I would bet both
> balls you have a oxygen sensor fault . This would have been exaggerated by
> the long high load with wide open throttle. Put in a new O2 sensor and
> things will be sweet.
> Alan
You're getting a bit ahead of yourself there recommending he change an
oxygen sensor when you don't even know what code it is!
NerVous WreK
the computer that controls the engine has logged the fault and brought the
check engine light on. For more detail refer to the owner's handbook if you
have one.
There are a whole range of reasons why the engine light could be on. I
really wouldn't like to speculate at all. Once you get the manual (if it is
a decent manual) it should exlplain to you how to extract the fault code by
bridging two terminals of the ALDL connector (behind the l/h kick panel). At
least then you will know what code has logged and what you might be in for.
Nerv.
NerVous WreK
may just be that a sensor was out of range or something. But I wouldn't
worry either unless it makes a habit of coming on regularly.
Nerv.
"Axle Jack" <axle...@REMOVE-TO-REPLYdingoblue.net.au> wrote in message
news:39f21b89$0$11624$7f31...@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au...
> Thanks for the replies guys.
> "Check engine" doesnt narrow it down much though :-)
> That was the only time the light was lit when it shouldnt have been and
the
> motor is working perfectly, ie fuel economy as expected, no smoke, tail
pipe
> colour correct etc.
> Unless this light makes a habit of coming on, I'm not changing anything,
> yet. After all until I see a problem I cant tell if its a genuine fault or
a
> faulty fault report system, I'm an electical engineer, and I hate
> electronics in cars :-)
>
>
Alan
to say not quiet adventurous just following what I have seen time and time
again. Sure if he can grab a scan tool (TECH 1) plug it in and see , I bet
it will say o2 sensor.
Alan
NerVous WreK <nerv...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BPoI5.7897$Ab3....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Arnie
<39f21c8f$0$11618$7f31...@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au>...
>Hmmm, interesting Nerv.
>I'll have a quick look through this manual when it arrives, I might not buy
>it if it isnt detailed enough.
Don't buy it. The Holden VN manual doesn't have details on ECU fault codes.
The Gregorys Service manual DOES.
Anyway, below is a very good post from Tony Furse (thanks Tony, hope you
don't mind:) regarding ECU codes. BTW, you count the 2 flash sequence (eg.
flash,flash..........flash,flash,flash = 23) and it tells you exactly the
area of fault.
Arnie
----------------------------------------------------------
G'day all,
(1) Getting at the Data
The ALDL connector is located to the left rear of underneath the glove
compartment. It generally is just tucked into the trim so that the
service personnel can reach it easily.
The ALDL connector has 6 pins and is arranged like this when viewed
from the connection side with the locking tang at the bottom:-
---------- Mating connector type XB4 (make unknown)
| 5 4 3 2 |
| 6 1 | GM Tech 1 mating connector TA02329A
---/ \---
----
Pin no function Tech 1
6 +12 volts H
5 Fuel pump test G
4 Check engine light (CEL) and serial data (0 to +12v) E
3 Torque converter clutch F
2 Diagnostic test terminal B
1 Earth A
To place the ECM in ALDL mode a resistor is placed between pins 1 and
2. The serial data comes out on pin 4. The value of the resistor
determines the mode that ECM goes into. The following three modes exist
:-
Resistor Value Mode.
10k ohm Tech 1 / Vehicle service mode.
3.9k ohm Backup mode. (Limp Home Mode)
0 ohms CEL flashing error code mode.
Trouble code definitions
Trouble Codes are in groups of generally five codes, this makes reading
the flashing codes from the check engine light easier as no code digit
is more than five flashes. The following are the codes:
12-15, 21-25, 31-35, 41-45, 51-55
Each code is represented by a bit in one of the malfunction code bytes.
there are 3 malfunction code bytes this allows for 24 codes each of
which can occur simultaneously to preserve multiple fault patterns which
sometimes result from a simple and single common cause.
MalfFlg1 Bit 7 = Code 12 NO SPARK PULSES FOR CPU (or no fault
codes)
MalfFlg1 Bit 6 = Code 13 O2 SENSOR CIRCUIT MALFUNCTION
MalfFlg1 Bit 5 = Code 14 COOLANT SENSOR SHORT CIRCUIT?
MalfFlg1 Bit 4 = Code 15 COOLANT SENSOR OPEN CIRCUIT?
MalfFlg1 Bit 3 = Code 21 THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR voltage
high
MalfFlg1 Bit 2 = Code 22 THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR voltage
low
MalfFlg1 Bit 1 = Code 23 MAT Sensor open
MalfFlg1 Bit 0 = Code 24 SPEED SENSOR OPEN OR GROUND?
MalfFlg2 Bit 7 = Code 25 MAT Sensor shorted
MalfFlg2 Bit 6 = Code 31 Unknown ?
MalfFlg2 Bit 5 = Code 32 Unknown ?
MalfFlg2 Bit 4 = Code 33 MAP Sensor voltage high - low
vacuum
MalfFlg2 Bit 3 = Code 34 MAP Sensor voltage low - high
vacuum
MalfFlg2 Bit 2 = Code 35 Idle speed error
MalfFlg2 Bit 1 = Code 41 No crankshaft reference input
pulses
MalfFlg2 Bit 0 = Code 42 EST Electronic spark timing in
bypass
MalfFlg3 Bit 7 = Code 43 KNOCK SENSOR fault
MalfFlg3 Bit 6 = Code 44 O2 SENSOR voltage low - lean
MalfFlg3 Bit 5 = Code 45 O2 SENSOR voltage high - rich
MalfFlg3 Bit 4 = Code 51 MEMCAL PROM Error
MalfFlg3 Bit 3 = Code 52 CALPAK Error
MalfFlg3 Bit 2 = Code 53 System Over-voltage
MalfFlg3 Bit 1 = Code 54 Unknown ?
MalfFlg3 Bit 0 = Code 55 A to D Error
Trouble code explanations
Code 12: No spark pulses at CPU or else good system, no codes
Code 13: Oxygen sensor output remained at .35-.55 volts for
more than one
minute after warmup. Possible open circuit.
Code 14: Coolant sensor indicated a temperature above 130C for
3 seconds
after engine ran for 20 seconds. Probably a short
Code 15: Coolant sensor indicated a temperature below -30C for
3 seconds
when MAT > - 13 or engine running over 1 minute.
Probably open
circuit
Code 21: Throttle pos sensor above 2.5 volts for 2 seconds when
engine
speed below 1600 rpm
Code 22: Throttle pos sensor below .2 volt for 2 seconds while
engine
running
Code 23: MAT sensor shows < -30 degrees C for 3 seconds after
engine
running 1 minute or coolant > 30C. Probably an open
circuit.
Code 24: No speed sensor pulses when engine between 2000-4000
rpm,
throttle closed, high vacuum, not in neutral and all
for 5
seconds
Code 25: MAT sensor showed above 145 degrees C for 2 seconds
after
engine ran for over 1 minute. Possible short circuit.
Code 31: Unknown Error Code
Code 32: Unknown Error Code
Code 33: MAP sensor voltage too high (> 4.00 v). Possible
vacuum leak to sensor or faulty sensor.
Code 34: MAP sensor voltage too low (< 0.25 v) with ignition on
or
engine running >1200 rpm and throttle open >20%
Code 35: Closed throttle idle speed is more than 75 rpm above
or
below correct value for more than 45 seconds
Code 41: No Crankshaft reference pulses. Ignition voltage < 11
volts etc.
Code 42: Open or short on EST or BYPASS line to ignition
module.
Code 43: Engine Knock Sensor open or shorted.
Code 44: O2 sensor showed < 0.250 volt for over 20 seconds
while operating closed loop
Code 45: O2 sensor showed > 0.550 volt for over 50 seconds
while in closed loop with engine running over 1 minute and
throttle open more than 2%
Code 51: Check insertion of MEMCAL in socket and bent pins.
Code 52: Check that CALPAK is in place, fully inserted, and no
bent
pins
Code 53: Car's alternator has produced >17.1 volts for over 2
seconds.
Check charging system
Code 54: Unknown error code
Code 55: ECM A to D error. Check ECM grounds, or excessive
input voltage.
Axle Jack
it
> may just be that a sensor was out of range or something. But I wouldn't
> worry either unless it makes a habit of coming on regularly.
gave the motor the complete going over today. New oil, plugs, filters etc.
Only problem was that there is a very slight misfire on idle. So slight that
it cant be noticed unless the bonnet is open and I listen very closely. It
isn't there under power and its driving perfectly.
Maybe the light thing is connected. I wouldn't worry about such a minor blip
normally, but I'm paranoid about misfires on cars fitted with catalytic
restricters. I dont want any unburned fuel going down the out pipe.
Thanks to everyone for the advice.
Axle Jack
Axle Jack
Brendon
the ECU going and see what fault code comes out.
"Axle Jack" <axle...@REMOVE-TO-REPLYdingoblue.net.au> wrote in message
news:39f21b89$0$11624$7f31...@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au...
Axle Jack
I've got a loan of a manual this morning which gives good ECU info.
But thanks anyway.
Pete!
"Axle Jack" <axle...@REMOVE-TO-REPLYdingoblue.net.au> wrote:
>I've just bought a 1991 commodore VN 3.8.
>There is a light on the dash which is the shape of an engine with an
>exclamation mark in it. I assume this is to let me know its due a service,
>is that right?
>Also, what actually makes the light go on, and I appreciate that this may be
>a few different things. Oil pressure? fuel pressure? oil level?
>The reason I ask is that today after a heavily laden haul up a long mountain
>pass, the next time I started the motor, the light stayed on for a minute.
>The engine has not done to many Kms and is in perfect condition. I'm
>changing the oil and giving it the full going over tomorrow, but I was
>curious what that light is meant to tell me.
>If anyone can advise, I'd be very grateful. I've ordered a manual but it
>hasn't arrived yet.
>cheers all
>Jack
>axle...@dingoblue.net.au
>
Jack,
It's the "Check Engine Light". Get a Gregory's manual on the engine and it
shows how the diag connector can be shorted and the ECU will "blink" out the
diagnostic code indicating the fault(s) that caused the light to come on.
Don't fall into the trap of assuming that code XX - oxygen sensor lean/rich
means you need to get a new sensor as has been suggested elsewhere in this
thread. Other things like a weak fuel pump or blocked injectors can generate
these codes.
P!
Pete!
"Alan" <antispam...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>The light is the 'check engine light" . When it comes on the ECU has logged
>a fault. Going by what you say you were doing at the time I would bet both
>balls you have a oxygen sensor fault . This would have been exaggerated by
>the long high load with wide open throttle. Put in a new O2 sensor and
>things will be sweet.
>Alan
Exaggerated???
A dud O2 sensor will more likely trip an error in light cruise mode that full
load/WOT up a mountain when the ECU runs heaps of fuel anyway (target A/F for
that ECU is around 12:1 at that load).
More likely the case is poor fuel delivery (block injectors/filter/bad pump)
causing a lean condition leading to an excessively lean reading on the O2
sensor, to which the ECU decides it's had enough.
The only way to know is to dump the codes rather than advise the poor bloke
to offload a hundred bucks + his time for an O2 sensor. Could it be dud MAP
sensor can also go out of range, particularly in a WOT application.
P!
>Axle Jack <axle...@REMOVE-TO-REPLYdingoblue.net.au> wrote in message
>news:39f142e2$0$11605$7f31...@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au...
Carlos Taylor
About a week ago the 'Check engine light' came on and stayed on
for a few seconds. Since then the tach seems to be reading
unusually high rpm's. At idle it could read anywhere from about
700 to 1100. When I accelerate (gradually) from standing it could
rev up to 4K when going from 1st to 3rd.
Can anyone shed any light?
Thanks,
CT
On 23 Oct 2000 10:37:30 GMT, Pete!@clubduh.com (Pete!) wrote:
>In article <39f142e2$0$11605$7f31...@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au>,
> "Axle Jack" <axle...@REMOVE-TO-REPLYdingoblue.net.au> wrote:
>>I've just bought a 1991 commodore VN 3.8.
>>There is a light on the dash which is the shape of an engine with an
Remove zzz from my email address to reply
Little
timing chain??
Carlos Taylor <zzzct...@iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:39f5c0d6...@news.m.iinet.net.au...
Carlos Taylor
I have no record of changing the timing chain. I have had the drive
belt pulley and harmonic balancer changed about 15,000 kms ago.
The ECU was 'rebuilt' 20,000 kms ago as I was experiencing
very rough idling and the engine would miss under load and
would stall when I turn the A/C on.
Cheers,
Carlos
On Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:06:21 +1000, "Little" <blu...@iprimus.com.au>
wrote: