Ford Ka and no temperature gauge
Vudoo
I was reading a recent Wheels article reviewing the new Ford Ka.
Apparently there is no water temp meter in the gauge!
I would have thought that this is one of the most crucial gauge, especially
after it is a bit older when it can spring a leak anywhere in the cooling
system. Is the Ka meant to be disposable then if they don't put a gauge in
there to prevent massive engine melt downs?
I know that I drive with my eye on the temp gauge all the time. It has
saved me twice (89 SSS springing a leak in the radiator and hose at separate
occasion). I would have imagined that if the gauge was not there, I might
have been up for a huge engine rebuild after the piston seize or the head
cracks.
And BTW for a new car to be released with a 1.3L 2V per cylinder and push
rod design is a bit weird, especially when competing with other cars in the
market. Just look at the power output - all 40 kW of it propelling it to
100km/hr in 19 secs! Didn't the Swift GTi's 1.3 produce something like 74
kW?
Cheers
Andrew
to crapy Korean cars and thought:
Hmmmmmmmmmm there are all these people who buy
cars because of the price and styling. So they figured they would
make a car that was ultra cheap to produce and has stand-out looks
that will appeal to that market. They figured the people buying these
cars don't look at temperature gauges or know anything about engines
so they just left out the temp gauge and put in a ultra cheap pushrod engine.
My guess is with the *right marketing* they will sell HEAPS!
Quite sad really.
Vudoo wrote:
--
<useless blarb>
The information contained in this email is blar blar blar........
.........................................
</useless blarb>
Punch Bunny
>My guess is with the *right marketing* they will sell HEAPS!
>Quite sad really.
But the people who buy these cars... deserve them!
- Steve
David Rubie
>
> Hi all,
>
> I was reading a recent Wheels article reviewing the new Ford Ka.
>
> Apparently there is no water temp meter in the gauge!
>
> I would have thought that this is one of the most crucial gauge, especially
> after it is a bit older when it can spring a leak anywhere in the cooling
> system. Is the Ka meant to be disposable then if they don't put a gauge in
> there to prevent massive engine melt downs?
>
The motor in this thing is old enough that it was originally
installed in cars with temp. warning lights anyway, when gauges
were the preserve of funny Italian exotics.
I wouldn't be too worried about it - the gauges in most cars are
so inaccurate that they really only tell you cold/normal/overheated,
so all you're really missing is "cold".
On a more philosophical point, Ford obviously spent waaaay too much
on styling/tooling and have effectively sacrificed the utility
of the car by fitting it with an underperforming relic of an engine
that was rubbish 30 years ago, let alone today.
dave.
--
-------------------------------------------------------
David Rubie "Your brother's dead.
Macquarie Bank Ltd. Keep dancing!"
dru...@macquarie.com.au (Sean Connery to Kim Basinger,
"Never Say Never Again").
Aaron Todd
The ford Ka is the biggest piece of crap, way worse than the Excel and too
expensive... looks are nothing short of crap as well..
The echo is cheaper and better equipped and a toyota.. the engine is (VVTi I
think, or is that the 1.8 they are releasing) good as well, keep up with the
excel which lets face it in that bracket (12000-17000) is the pace setter
for zip (its cool, little cars have zip, larger cars have go and big cars
have donk.. hehe)
So the ka is shit.. no doubt... id buy an excel over it any day... the
engine is also iron, pushrod, 2valve wow that is crap...
Vudoo <no...@home.com.au> wrote in message
news:38598...@galaxy.globec.com.au...
> Hi all,
>
> I was reading a recent Wheels article reviewing the new Ford Ka.
>
> Apparently there is no water temp meter in the gauge!
>
> I would have thought that this is one of the most crucial gauge,
especially
> after it is a bit older when it can spring a leak anywhere in the cooling
> system. Is the Ka meant to be disposable then if they don't put a gauge
in
> there to prevent massive engine melt downs?
>
Kieron Murphy
<dru...@macquarie.com.au> wrote:
>On a more philosophical point, Ford obviously spent waaaay too much
>on styling/tooling and have effectively sacrificed the utility
>of the car by fitting it with an underperforming relic of an engine
>that was rubbish 30 years ago, let alone today.
Hmm, I would have though the drivetrain would have been choosen fairly
early in the development.
The old Kent in 1.6 guise isn't to shabby in a FF, thinf of all the
hop up parts you could get from Cosworth ;-)
Kieron
Julian Edgar
Vudoo <no...@home.com.au> wrote in message
news:38598...@galaxy.globec.com.au...
> Hi all,
>
> I was reading a recent Wheels article reviewing the new Ford Ka.
>
> Apparently there is no water temp meter in the gauge!
>
and neither has the Mercedes A160 that I am reviewing for AutoSpeed!
Julian Edgar
www.autospeed.com
David Rubie
>
> On Fri, 17 Dec 1999 20:41:58 +1100, David Rubie
> <dru...@macquarie.com.au> wrote:
>
> >On a more philosophical point, Ford obviously spent waaaay too much
> >on styling/tooling and have effectively sacrificed the utility
> >of the car by fitting it with an underperforming relic of an engine
> >that was rubbish 30 years ago, let alone today.
>
> Hmm, I would have though the drivetrain would have been choosen fairly
> early in the development.
I guess it was - I wasn't trying to assert that Ford panicked at the
end of the development cycle or anything, just that their priorities
are very strange. Although, in context, they aren't doing anything
they haven't done before (i.e. swoopy bodies on otherwise pedestrian
mechanicals ala the original Mustang in 6 cylinder form at least).
>
> The old Kent in 1.6 guise isn't to shabby in a FF, thinf of all the
> hop up parts you could get from Cosworth ;-)
True, but will the 1.3 respond to any of them? I wonder if they
changed the block casting for front wheel drive. What happened
to the OHC motor from the Escort anyway, surely the Pinto costs
have long been amortised and the damn thing at least can be massaged
to produce reasonable power. I guess it's too big physically
to fit anywhere under the bonnet of a tiddler (although Peugeot
manage to do it with the 206).
Dion Mikkelsen
time:
>
>On a more philosophical point, Ford obviously spent waaaay too much
>on styling/tooling and have effectively sacrificed the utility
>of the car by fitting it with an underperforming relic of an engine
>that was rubbish 30 years ago, let alone today.
Yeah, I was listening to one last night at a shopping centre. None of
that sewing machine smoothness of most other small cars with modern
engines; just this raspy horrible noise. Heck, even my 170k old
Pulsar engine was waaaay smoother!
--
Dion! -=DUH#12=- (Y1)
"If you chip your newsreader, you'll get a 10% increase in flaming."
lambo
That aside; I wonder what if they still got the combustion chamber in the
piston... now that would be a funny funny thing , and some one should get
the sack over that ?
If the gauge is so important , you could put in an after market one ... you
could even screw it to the bonnet , right next to the 8 inch 10000 RPM
tacho... now that would be tops !!
dave
This engine would be a nice swap into any old escort ( if you could get it
cheap ? )
David Rubie wrote in message <385A0566...@macquarie.com.au>...
>Vudoo wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I was reading a recent Wheels article reviewing the new Ford Ka.
>>
>> Apparently there is no water temp meter in the gauge!
>>
>> I would have thought that this is one of the most crucial gauge,
especially
>> after it is a bit older when it can spring a leak anywhere in the cooling
>> system. Is the Ka meant to be disposable then if they don't put a gauge
in
>> there to prevent massive engine melt downs?
>>
>[deleted stuff about old engine]
>
>The motor in this thing is old enough that it was originally
>installed in cars with temp. warning lights anyway, when gauges
>were the preserve of funny Italian exotics.
>
>I wouldn't be too worried about it - the gauges in most cars are
>so inaccurate that they really only tell you cold/normal/overheated,
>so all you're really missing is "cold".
>
>On a more philosophical point, Ford obviously spent waaaay too much
>on styling/tooling and have effectively sacrificed the utility
>of the car by fitting it with an underperforming relic of an engine
>that was rubbish 30 years ago, let alone today.
>
Kieron Murphy
<dru...@macquarie.com.au> wrote:
>I guess it was - I wasn't trying to assert that Ford panicked at the
>end of the development cycle or anything, just that their priorities
>are very strange. Although, in context, they aren't doing anything
>they haven't done before (i.e. swoopy bodies on otherwise pedestrian
>mechanicals ala the original Mustang in 6 cylinder form at least).
What they are doing is simply reading the market and suppliyng what
its demanding I would say. This type of car is really aimed at the
female, who (with no disrespect Ant!!) arn't likely to be looking at
performance figures and tech stuff in a car mag, they will be more
interested in style and goodies like A/C and CD players which I thin
kthe Ka comes with standard.
And yes, the Mustang was in a similar vein, although the 6 it used was
new then and par for the course.
>> The old Kent in 1.6 guise isn't to shabby in a FF, thinf of all the
>> hop up parts you could get from Cosworth ;-)
>
>True, but will the 1.3 respond to any of them? I wonder if they
>changed the block casting for front wheel drive. What happened
>to the OHC motor from the Escort anyway, surely the Pinto costs
>have long been amortised and the damn thing at least can be massaged
>to produce reasonable power. I guess it's too big physically
>to fit anywhere under the bonnet of a tiddler (although Peugeot
>manage to do it with the 206).
Don't know, but I doubt anyone would bother. Beats me why Ford just
didn't keep it as a 1.6, its hardly going to cost much more!!
Actually, when I lived in the UK in 89/90, I quite often drove a 1.1
litre Fiesta around London, and in the city, it was a great little
thing for zipping around, also bare in mind I like big low revving
cars and owned a 77 LTD Silver Monarch back in Aus at the time ;-)
Don't know if its casting was changed, but it was front wheels drive a
long way back when the Fiesta was introduced.
The Pinto was available as a 1.6 and 2.0 (and 2.3 in the USA), but I
don't think it was used in a FWD car, the Escorts used a motor caled a
CVH or somehting like that, and as you say, its too big for that car -
probably rips its little heart out ;-)
Kieron
Kieron
D Walford
The sort of people who will buy this type of car are more likely to take
notice of a red light on the dash than a gauge.
Daryl
Vudoo wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I was reading a recent Wheels article reviewing the new Ford Ka.
>
> Apparently there is no water temp meter in the gauge!
>
> I would have thought that this is one of the most crucial gauge, especially
> after it is a bit older when it can spring a leak anywhere in the cooling
> system. Is the Ka meant to be disposable then if they don't put a gauge in
> there to prevent massive engine melt downs?
>
Richard Fay
>
> Vudoo <no...@home.com.au> wrote in message
> news:38598...@galaxy.globec.com.au...
> >
> > I was reading a recent Wheels article reviewing the new Ford Ka.
> >
> > Apparently there is no water temp meter in the gauge!
> >
>
>
Neither does the Echo.
Blue light for when it's cold and red light if it starts to overheat.
Remember the HQ Holden didn't have a temperature gauge either.
Richard
Forg
...
> The old Kent in 1.6 guise isn't to shabby in a FF, thinf of all the
> hop up parts you could get from Cosworth ;-)
Hmmm ... drop in a Lotus Twin Cam! :-)
--
Forg! -DUH#6=- (Y1)
"Flamin' heck; another Volvo Driver!"
"...
Another Turnip Boy;
A Forg stuck in the road
..."
[Greenday]
Forg
...
> Heck, even my 170k old
> Pulsar engine was waaaay smoother!
Of course, the rest of us could laugh and point at your engine while
chanting "Camira SJ; your mother will hate it" ... but that would just
be downright cruel! :-)
Forg
...
> What happened
> to the OHC motor from the Escort anyway, surely the Pinto costs
> have long been amortised and the damn thing at least can be massaged
> to produce reasonable power.
Well, considering the Cosworth motor that died in the Escort RS not that
long ago was based on the Pinto ... you're probably right!
Seriously though, you could get over 100kW out of a carbied Pinto and
have it pretty drivable low-down, so an EFI one would be better.
However, I think they'd have ditched all their Pinto-manufacturing
stuff, as I'm pretty sure the Zetec family replaced them (dunno about
the expensive Cosworth motor though; what does the WRC Focus run?)
dennis...@my-deja.com
My
brother had a worked Mk2 Cortina with a 1.6 Kent that would see off SLR
5000's to
120km/h, and ran up to 180km/h. Not bad when you consider the weight and
lack of
aerodynamics of that car.
Dennis
David Rubie wrote:
> Vudoo wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I was reading a recent Wheels article reviewing the new Ford Ka.
> >
> > Apparently there is no water temp meter in the gauge!
> >
> > I would have thought that this is one of the most crucial gauge,
especially
> > after it is a bit older when it can spring a leak anywhere in the
cooling
> > system. Is the Ka meant to be disposable then if they don't put a
gauge in
> > there to prevent massive engine melt downs?
> >
> [deleted stuff about old engine]
>
> The motor in this thing is old enough that it was originally
> installed in cars with temp. warning lights anyway, when gauges
> were the preserve of funny Italian exotics.
>
> I wouldn't be too worried about it - the gauges in most cars are
> so inaccurate that they really only tell you cold/normal/overheated,
> so all you're really missing is "cold".
>
> On a more philosophical point, Ford obviously spent waaaay too much
> on styling/tooling and have effectively sacrificed the utility
> of the car by fitting it with an underperforming relic of an engine
> that was rubbish 30 years ago, let alone today.
>
> dave.
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------
> David Rubie "Your brother's dead.
> Macquarie Bank Ltd. Keep dancing!"
> dru...@macquarie.com.au (Sean Connery to Kim Basinger,
> "Never Say Never Again").
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Dion Mikkelsen
after nibbling Nobby's nuts for some time:
>Dion Mikkelsen wrote:
>...
>> Heck, even my 170k old
>> Pulsar engine was waaaay smoother!
>...
>
>Of course, the rest of us could laugh and point at your engine while
>chanting "Camira SJ; your mother will hate it" ... but that would just
>be downright cruel! :-)
I know! And like I said, the Ka engine sounded horrible by comparison
:-)
Actually, the Pulsar engine is idling quite well for its age, though
it is cheating by idling at 900-950 rpm, rather than 800 :-)
Tom
Brit Rally Championship...... What a horrible thought. (I'm sure it was
the Ka not the Focus.)
<dennis...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:83di8q$pqt$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Graeme Greethead
> I'm sure that the Ka was being proposed to run in a same-make class in the
> Brit Rally Championship...... What a horrible thought. (I'm sure it was
> the Ka not the Focus.)
>
Yeah have heard someting like that to. It's also rumoured that the FTE
dealers will be getting a hotted up version sometime down the track.
As for its looks I quite like the front end and the interior but the
rear end is shocking.
Graeme
Karl
Festiva. The Ka is in a different price bracket.
Andrew wrote:
> Its quite simple. Ford looked at how they were loosing sales
> to crapy Korean cars and thought:
>
> Hmmmmmmmmmm there are all these people who buy
> cars because of the price and styling. So they figured they would
> make a car that was ultra cheap to produce and has stand-out looks
> that will appeal to that market. They figured the people buying these
> cars don't look at temperature gauges or know anything about engines
> so they just left out the temp gauge and put in a ultra cheap pushrod engine.
>
> My guess is with the *right marketing* they will sell HEAPS!
> Quite sad really.
>
> Vudoo wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I was reading a recent Wheels article reviewing the new Ford Ka.
> >
> > Apparently there is no water temp meter in the gauge!
> >
> > I would have thought that this is one of the most crucial gauge, especially
> > after it is a bit older when it can spring a leak anywhere in the cooling
> > system. Is the Ka meant to be disposable then if they don't put a gauge in
> > there to prevent massive engine melt downs?
> >
> > I know that I drive with my eye on the temp gauge all the time. It has
> > saved me twice (89 SSS springing a leak in the radiator and hose at separate
> > occasion). I would have imagined that if the gauge was not there, I might
> > have been up for a huge engine rebuild after the piston seize or the head
> > cracks.
> >
> > And BTW for a new car to be released with a 1.3L 2V per cylinder and push
> > rod design is a bit weird, especially when competing with other cars in the
> > market. Just look at the power output - all 40 kW of it propelling it to
> > 100km/hr in 19 secs! Didn't the Swift GTi's 1.3 produce something like 74
> > kW?
> >
> > Cheers
>
Forg
...
> And like I said, the Ka engine sounded horrible by comparison
> :-)
Heh heh ... they should've used carbies too, just to ensure the "really
old asthmatic Escort" sound ... :-)
The Taipan
"Aaron Todd" <tod...@wantree.com.au> wrote in message
news:83cgad$a1l$1...@centipede.wantree.com.au...
> This is the car that makes the Excel look great!!!
>
> The ford Ka is the biggest piece of crap, way worse than the Excel and too
> expensive... looks are nothing short of crap as well..
>
what you have seen...
> The echo is cheaper and better equipped and a toyota.. the engine is (VVTi
I
> think, or is that the 1.8 they are releasing) good as well, keep up with
the
> excel which lets face it in that bracket (12000-17000) is the pace setter
> for zip (its cool, little cars have zip, larger cars have go and big cars
> have donk.. hehe)
>
You'll find that the Echo doesn't come with any standard equipment at all,
well close too it... you get very little car for you dollar. To get a basic
echo your driveaway price is close to 17000 - before you have added ANY
extras...
Nice engine for a small car though! Much better than the Ka for engine
performance, but a Ka has much better handling dynamics...
> So the ka is shit.. no doubt... id buy an excel over it any day... the
> engine is also iron, pushrod, 2valve wow that is crap...
>
>
Why is it crap though?? I think the Ka is one of the best value cars on the
market at the moment - its biggest drawback is the engine - but in the
market I think only Echo and Mirage could boast anything close to a "good"
engine, and your Excel is so to be an Accent and bumped up in price
significantly... and if you think Ka and Echo are ugly, wait till you see
the Accent!!!
'nuff said, just balancing the views a little here...
> Vudoo <no...@home.com.au> wrote in message
> news:38598...@galaxy.globec.com.au...
Vudoo
Haven't looked at one myself or read the manual.
As it stands, it cost me $30 to fix the leak in the hose and $200 to replace
the radiator when it blew. But still it is way cheaper than approx $600+ to
repair a seized engine.
And with me mechanically minded, the car still got me to where I had to get
to without having to call a tow truck (and once that was 50km from nowhere)
by filling the radiator with water and driving with radiator cap off to keep
pressure low and coolant loss minimum (though I had to periodically stop to
refill it with water).
I do hope that the Ka has a temp light at the very least, especially as I
said, when the car is getting older when a leak could happen anytime,
anywhere!
Or does the manual suggest stopping the car when you see steam from the
bonnet and the engine misfiring when the water gets into the cylinders ? ;-)
Cheers.
D Walford wrote in message <385A0EDD...@primus.com.au>...
>Does it have a temp warning lamp?
>The sort of people who will buy this type of car are more likely to take
>notice of a red light on the dash than a gauge.
>
>Daryl
>
>Vudoo wrote:
>>
Vudoo
relies on it to adjust the injection and warm up mixture.
It was only seeing that the needle not being as high as it should be and the
car idling a lot faster while running less efficient that I realised that
the wife's Civic has a faulty thermostat. A $30 replacement and a bit of
struggling to get the hose and thermostat housing off fixed that. It's now
running much more efficient fuel economy wise (though now that I am used to
my WRX, it seems that I am a lot more heavy footed when I am driving her car
than before ;-)).
Cheers.
David Rubie wrote in message
Kieron Murphy
wrote:
>relic ? at least they should have rebirthed the lotus head mmmmmm
>
>That aside; I wonder what if they still got the combustion chamber in the
>piston... now that would be a funny funny thing , and some one should get
>the sack over that ?
I would expect so as they would have to have designed a new head, and
if they did that, then they might as well have gone the whole hog and
threw a cam upstairs ;-)
Kieron
Kieron Murphy
>Don't know.
>
>Haven't looked at one myself or read the manual.
>
>As it stands, it cost me $30 to fix the leak in the hose and $200 to replace
>the radiator when it blew. But still it is way cheaper than approx $600+ to
>repair a seized engine.
>
>And with me mechanically minded, the car still got me to where I had to get
>to without having to call a tow truck (and once that was 50km from nowhere)
>by filling the radiator with water and driving with radiator cap off to keep
>pressure low and coolant loss minimum (though I had to periodically stop to
>refill it with water).
>
>I do hope that the Ka has a temp light at the very least, especially as I
>said, when the car is getting older when a leak could happen anytime,
>anywhere!
>
Its got a light!, aircraft quite often supplement gauges with lights
and even better, audible warnings of problems.
Kieron
David Rubie
>
> David Rubie wrote:
> ...
[deleted]
> ...
>
> Well, considering the Cosworth motor that died in the Escort RS not that
> long ago was based on the Pinto ... you're probably right!
> Seriously though, you could get over 100kW out of a carbied Pinto and
> have it pretty drivable low-down, so an EFI one would be better.
> However, I think they'd have ditched all their Pinto-manufacturing
> stuff, as I'm pretty sure the Zetec family replaced them (dunno about
> the expensive Cosworth motor though; what does the WRC Focus run?)
Pretty sure it's the Zetec, there'd be details on the Web
somewhere but I'm too lazy to look :-)
David Rubie
>
> There is no way that I would have called the Kent rubbish 30 years ago.
> My
> brother had a worked Mk2 Cortina with a 1.6 Kent that would see off SLR
> 5000's to
> 120km/h, and ran up to 180km/h. Not bad when you consider the weight and
> lack of
> aerodynamics of that car.
<shrug> Sure it wasn't a Lotus powered Cortina :-)
I've only ever driven 1 Kent engined Mk2 (complete with steering
column gear change) and it was OK for what it was, but even
the early Japanese OHC stuff was a mile smoother and made
more power. Even Ford new it was rubbish, and asked Lotus
to sort it out. The 1.6 might have been acceptable, but
the 1.3 was always a horrid little gasper.
Forg
>
> Forg wrote:
...
> > I think they'd have ditched all their Pinto-manufacturing
> > stuff, as I'm pretty sure the Zetec family replaced them (dunno about
> > the expensive Cosworth motor though; what does the WRC Focus run?)
>
> Pretty sure it's the Zetec, there'd be details on the Web
> somewhere but I'm too lazy to look :-)
You have _exactly_ nailed the reason I didn't look in the first place
...
amra...@my-deja.com
>David Rubie wrote:
dennis...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>
>> There is no way that I would have called the Kent rubbish 30 years
ago.
>> My
>> brother had a worked Mk2 Cortina with a 1.6 Kent that would see off
SLR
>> 5000's to
>> 120km/h, and ran up to 180km/h. Not bad when you consider the weight
and
>> lack of
>> aerodynamics of that car.
> Sure it wasn't a Lotus powered Cortina :-)
>I've only ever driven 1 Kent engined Mk2 (complete with steering
>column gear change) and it was OK for what it was, but even
>the early Japanese OHC stuff was a mile smoother and made
>more power; Even Ford new it was rubbish, and asked Lotus
>to sort it out. The 1.6 might have been acceptable, but
>the 1.3 was always a horrid little gasper.
Definitely wasn't a Lotus. Heron heads etc. Thing had twin 40DCOE
Webers, headwork etc, and would rev to 7500rpm all day. Very tiring on
the open road-4000rpm at about 110-120.
Dennis