Australian Ford Falcon XY GT
Stephen Snow
me how to tell a real one from a faker.
Kieron Murphy
wrote:
>I am looking to buy a XY GT and would like to hear from anyone who can tell
>me how to tell a real one from a faker.
>
Get the VIN and call Ford on the 1800 number listed in the phone book,
they will tell you what it is and what options it had from the
factory.
If you supply the SIDO, they will also tell you what dealer sold it,
although other people I know havn't been able to get this info from
them, I think its is a manual system and some of the service people
couldn't be othered or don't know how to do it.
Kieron
Paul Wynne
GT Coupe I am thinking of buying. She was very helpful and spent quite a
while to find out the details of the car.
We found that the compliance plate is stamped JG33 (GT sedan) and model
number 18218 (GT coupe), the engine and chassis is stamped JG66 (GT coupe).
All numbers that follow the JG33 and JG66 numbers on the chassis, engine and
compliance plate are exactly the same. The options match the car for the
JG66 number but according to Ford the JG33 number is not a GT. Has anyone
seen this before?
Paul
Kieron Murphy wrote in message <36145ba6...@news.per.aone.net.au>...
Paul Lancaster
>
> If you supply the SIDO, they will also tell you what dealer sold it,
> although other people I know havn't been able to get this info from
> them, I think its is a manual system and some of the service people
> couldn't be othered or don't know how to do it.
>
They can also provide a hard copy of all the details including a
certificate of authenticity.
Cheers,
Paul.
--
===========================================================
-||-----||- Paul Lancaster [Paul.La...@dsto.defence.gov.au]
\o/
|
< > Maribyrnong Victoria Australia
===========================================================
"The only way to stop this suicide wave is to make
it a capital offense, punishable by death."
Kieron Murphy
wrote:
>I called the Ford 1800 number this week and spoke to Linda regarding an XA
>GT Coupe I am thinking of buying. She was very helpful and spent quite a
>while to find out the details of the car.
>
>We found that the compliance plate is stamped JG33 (GT sedan) and model
>number 18218 (GT coupe), the engine and chassis is stamped JG66 (GT coupe).
>All numbers that follow the JG33 and JG66 numbers on the chassis, engine and
>compliance plate are exactly the same. The options match the car for the
>JG66 number but according to Ford the JG33 number is not a GT. Has anyone
>seen this before?
>
>Paul
A friend has an XB GT sedan, its a JG33, the engine, chassis and 2
data plates all have the same number, its model number is#6338 which
will be different to your of course. The ADR plate in fact has XB
Falcon 4DR SED as well as the JG33 number stamped on it.
Kieron
Paul Wynne
Paul Lancaster wrote in message <3614793B...@dsto.defence.gov.au>...
>Kieron Murphy wrote:
>>
>> If you supply the SIDO, they will also tell you what dealer sold it,
>> although other people I know havn't been able to get this info from
>> them, I think its is a manual system and some of the service people
>> couldn't be othered or don't know how to do it.
>>
>
>They can also provide a hard copy of all the details including a
>certificate of authenticity.
>
>Cheers,
>Paul.
If you can prove ownership ie. rego papers in your name.
Regards
Paul
jim
Paul Wynne wrote in message
>We found that the compliance plate is stamped JG33 (GT sedan) and model
>number 18218 (GT coupe), the engine and chassis is stamped JG66 (GT coupe).
>All numbers that follow the JG33 and JG66 numbers on the chassis, engine
and
>compliance plate are exactly the same. The options match the car for the
>JG66 number but according to Ford the JG33 number is not a GT. Has anyone
>seen this before?
>
>Paul
Yes - remember these were done by people, I have seen - GENUINE GT's - with
the numbers JG 23 - which is A FALCON sedan not GT. But, the thing to
remember is this.... If you are unsure then the next buyer will be unsure
as well. You are better off with a GT that has no number problems and NO
dubious history - because the GT world is pretty small. JG33 is a 4 door GT
sedan, JG 66 is a Falcon GT hardtop.. - and that is the same on all models
from XR to XB.. But these are not the only number s to check.. Contact
the closest GT Falcon owners club - there is always someone willin to help -
XY's are the hardest to identify as there are three - yes three different
numbering systems - Late '70 model XY's changeover '70 - '71 (only about 6
of them) and '71 model XY's they are all different numberings.. SO you need
an expert..
Jim
jim
on the code for an XB Sedan - and don't have my list here but the model code
always starts with 1 is 5 numbers long and ends in an 8 for GT's and 1 of
the HO's (PH2) ended in a 9.
All XW - XB GT's will have a T code engine - unless it is a HO or had the HO
spec engine (which was an option on XY's) then it will have a H.
Trans code will be B for auto GT's and L for 4 speed.
Early XY's will be stamped JG33 ############ on the compliance plate the
front of and on the passengers side of the radiator support panel. And will
have Another shorter number on the Shock tower which corresponds with the
engine number.
Late XY's will have the JG33 ########### stamped on the compliance plate,
the shock tower and the engine..
jim
I am not putting you down - but the letter from ford - IS NOT a
certificate of authenticity - IT however a letter that states that a car was
built with those number and was delivered to so and so dealership with blah
options.. It is useful, but more often than not - it is not complete.
Paul Lancaster
>
> Sorry Paul -
>
> I am not putting you down - but the letter from ford - IS NOT a
> certificate of authenticity - IT however a letter that states that a car was
> built with those number and was delivered to so and so dealership with blah
> options.. It is useful, but more often than not - it is not complete.
Fair enough, the letter doesn't imply that your vehicle is authentic.
It does, however, provide you with enough information to determine that
it is.
Well I should state that I've only ever seen one of these letters (my
mate has a Phase II) and it had all the relevant info.
Cheers,
Paul.
Mark Burgess
the best guys to talk to would either be Bob Matic from Ford Muscle Parts in
Sydney or David Frake from Musclecraft in Melbourne. What these guys dont know
about GT's ain't worth knowing about. There are three things that you must have
matching before you even consider looking at it:
1. The engine number: in your case it should be JG33-XX999999 - if the original
engine is not in the car then you should be able to ask for the block..no owner
in their right mind would toss a genuine block even if it is stuffed, it is
more proof.
2. The chassis number on the left hand shock tower should match this engine #
3. The identification codes on the plates should also match this number.
It would be a good idea to have a look at www.falcongt.com.au and to maybe
contact David Frake as he has an information booklet on the cars and where all
the id numbers are located. Spend a lot of time researching and gettting to
know as much as you can about the cars before you part with your money. You
could also request that the current owner contact Ford himself to get a letter
of authentication for the car. If it is genuine this should be no problem at
all.
There is also a book about the Falcon GT and GTHO which shows what all the
number codes mean. It would be well worth buying for a read as it also
describes the different features of the cars.
Good luck..
Stephen Snow wrote:
> I am looking to buy a XY GT and would like to hear from anyone who can tell
> me how to tell a real one from a faker.
--
Mark Burgess
Technical Analyst - ST
Oracle New Zealand
7 City Road
Level 10, Lumley House
PO Box 6747
Wellesley Street
Auckland 1
New Zealand
Ph 64-9-309-1946
Fax 64-9-358-1798
email mbur...@nz.oracle.com
nat!
>
> I called the Ford 1800 number this week and spoke to Linda regarding an XA
> GT Coupe I am thinking of buying. She was very helpful and spent quite a
> while to find out the details of the car.
>
if it is a 'coupe'...then it must have JG66 on the compliance. I was
under the impression that the compliance plate must match the other
items?
model
> number 18218 (GT coupe), the engine and chassis is stamped JG66 (GT coupe).
> All numbers that follow the JG33 and JG66 numbers on the chassis, engine and
> compliance plate are exactly the same. The options match the car for the
> JG66 number but according to Ford the JG33 number is not a GT. Has anyone
> seen this before?
>
> Paul
Anyone heard of them two door RPO 83 items?
nat!
nat!
don't know how relevant it is.
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/5381/engine.htm
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/5381/prefix.htm
I had some other stuff before, but couldn't be #$%^& typing it up.
nat!
GTS
wrote:
>Yes - remember these were done by people, I have seen - GENUINE GT's - with
>the numbers JG 23 - which is A FALCON sedan not GT. But, the thing to
>remember is this.... If you are unsure then the next buyer will be unsure
>as well. You are better off with a GT that has no number problems and NO
>dubious history - because the GT world is pretty small. JG33 is a 4 door GT
>sedan, JG 66 is a Falcon GT hardtop.. - and that is the same on all models
>from XR to XB.. But these are not the only number s to check.. Contact
>the closest GT Falcon owners club - there is always someone willin to help -
>XY's are the hardest to identify as there are three - yes three different
>numbering systems - Late '70 model XY's changeover '70 - '71 (only about 6
>of them) and '71 model XY's they are all different numberings.. SO you need
>an expert..
I'm a little unclear on the Ford numbering system too... My XY
Fairmont, is numbered differently to what it says in my Tech Manual,
the number on the compliance plate are different to the codes listed
for an XY in the book.
I know it's a genuine.. 'cos I've known the 1 previous owner for
years, besides who would make a fake Fairmont? ;)
--
[ GTS ]
Mon...@labyrinth.net.au
Another Day, Another Box of Stolen Pens
- Homer J. Simpson.
jim
>Anyone heard of them two door RPO 83 items?
>
>nat!
Yes,
You could also get them in 4 Door - in fact most seem to be 4 door....
They were in fact a nice car - had all the HO bits on them.
andrewo...@yahoo.com.au
Daryl
> Ive a 71 xy which according to its compliance is a falcon 500. But recently I've come across some bits off it that are stamped gt. Anyone got any thoughts on this. How could one tell if its been rebirthed?
>
they can tell you what it was when it left the factory.
"Sido" stands for "single item dealer order" and should be on the
compliance plate.
Its possible they might charge for providing the information, not sure
if they do or don't.
Is car a 351V8?
Ford produced some XY's for police use that looked like 500's but
underneath they were more or less GT's, in Ford terms that's called an
OSO (off standard option) which are special orders, the police specials
were odd colours such as a pastel green, my oldest sisters husband owned
one.
--
Daryl
Noddy
> Ive a 71 xy which according to its compliance is a falcon 500. But
> recently I've come across some bits off it that are stamped gt.
> Anyone got any thoughts on this.
those that were were often shared across the Falcon/Fairlane mode lineup.
What parts are you talking about?
> How could one tell if its been rebirthed?
Ford had a complex system of identifying numbers that varied over the
years during this period, and while it got easier to decipher as time
went on it was never particularly easy for the novice. By the time of
the XY they had resorted to using one common number, but it could still
be confusing.
From January 1971 onwards, each XY Falcon left the factory with the
same number in 4 key locations: The passenger's side front of the
radiator support panel, the top of the passenger's side spring tower,
the engine block, and the ID tag fixed to the passenger's side wiper
valance. This number predated the standard VIN in use today, and was
basically a series of numbers and letters in the form of a "code" that
told you where the car was built, the model it was, the month and year
it was manufactured, and it's numerical place on the assembly line.
For example, JG23EL49511 would indicate the following:
"JG" would tell you that the car's assembly plant was Broadmeadows.
("JH" was Brisbane, and "JK" was Sydney).
"23" is the model code identifier for a Falcon 500.
"EL" is the identifier for the month and year of production, with "E"
being April and "L" being 1971.
"49511" indicates that the car is the 49,511th Ford build in Australia
for the 1971 model year.
If your car is a '71 model then your number will most likely be
"JG23*Lxxxxx" with the "*" depending on what month it was built. Sydney
built Falcons are exceptionally rare, and while Brisbane built cars are
somewhat more common Broadmeadows built cars were far and away the most
common of the lot.
As for the other information on your ID tag, it relates to engine type,
trans type, rear axle, paint colour and trim. Without knowing what
engine your car has in it if it was a factory 351 powered car it would
have a D block "Cleveland" engine and the engine code on the tag would
be "K", with the matching number stamped into the lower passenger's side
front of the block above the fuel pump.
If he car was originally 302 powered it would have an engine code of "Y"
on the ID tag and be fitted with a 2 barrel "Windsor" engine with the
number stamped into a flat pad at the very top middle of the block at
the back edge of the inlet manifold.
There are a number of engine codes for the various 6 cylinder engines,
but as you're concerned that your car may be a "rebirthed GT" these
aren't really relevant.
Armed with this information, if you check all your number locations and
they all match, then the likelihood of your car being a rebirthed GT is
low. That's not to say impossible, as many GT's were stolen and
cannibalised years ago and some people went to very great lengths to
hide that fact, but if your car is a "matching numbers" Falcon 500 then
the chances that it started it's life as anything else are not great.
Again I have no idea as to the configuration of your car, and bearing in
mind that we're talking about vehicles that are nearly 50 years old
where many of them have had engine swaps, it really is impossible to
comment intelligently about the authenticity of your car without seeing
it, but it is not at all out of the ordinary to find "GT" parts on other
cars in the Ford range. Less common on something like a Falcon 500 as
the bulk of them tended to be 6 cylinder manuals with a Borg Warner "tin
hat" diff, but it's also very possible that your car has been through a
few owners who saw fit to "customise" as they desired.
--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
> You could call Ford Customer Service, if you give them the "sido" number
> they can tell you what it was when it left the factory.
> "Sido" stands for "single item dealer order" and should be on the
> compliance plate.
> Its possible they might charge for providing the information, not sure
> if they do or don't.
> Is car a 351V8?
> Ford produced some XY's for police use that looked like 500's but
> underneath they were more or less GT's, in Ford terms that's called an
> OSO (off standard option) which are special orders, the police specials
> were odd colours such as a pastel green, my oldest sisters husband owned
> one.
Without knowing the details of his ID plate it's impossible to tell, but
the give away for the cop cars is the engine code. All of the cop cars
were built in "Falcon 500" trim, but had 4V Clevelands with a "T" engine
code on the ID plate which you couldn't get in any standard Falcon 500.
A few had "H" code engines, which was the phase III mill.
jonz@ nothere.com
Noddy
> The cuppy and nonuts show....I see what y'all did there.... Transparent. Ho-hum. <BG>
someone who needs a brain transplant?
alvey
> On 26/04/2018 8:10 AM, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
>
>> The cuppy and nonuts show....I see what y'all did there.... Transparent. Ho-hum. <BG>
>
> Do you have a purpose in life *other* that being a living example of
> someone who needs a brain transplant?
are mired there still...
alvey
Xeno
> On 26/04/2018 8:10 AM, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
>
>> The cuppy and nonuts show....I see what y'all did there....
>> Transparent. Ho-hum. <BG>
>
> Do you have a purpose in life *other* that being a living example of
> someone who needs a brain transplant?
>
--
Xeno
jonz@ nothere.com
Hell no!. ;)
>
>
> --
>
> Xeno
Daryl
bastard to get parts for, he usually had to take the old part with him
and the spare parts people usually said that they were GT parts.
Don't recall him ever needing to do any major engine repairs but I do
remember him having problems with the gearbox and driveshaft.
--
Daryl
Xeno
>
--
Xeno
Noddy
your last visit or what?
Xeno
--
Xeno
Clocky
> The cuppy and nonuts show....I see what y'all did there.... Transparent. Ho-hum. <BG>
>