1989 Ford Telstar clutch question

[Trevor Wilson]

I can't locate the service manual for the Telstar ATM. The clutch has
developed a problem which seems to be getting rapidly worse. The clutch
is enaging fully within a 50 - 60mm of the firewall. The 'spring' (or
whatever returns the pedal to it's normal position) feels weaker than
usual. I presume it is a cable clutch. Is it likely to be a simple
adjustment, or am I looking at something more serious?


--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au

[Noddy]

It sounds terminal. As in "needs replacing" terminal.



--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Trevor Wilson]

**Bugger. A clutch replacement is beyond my abilities. Damned clutch
only has 140,000km on it.


--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au

[Noddy]

On 04/12/13 4:11 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:

> **Bugger. A clutch replacement is beyond my abilities. Damned clutch
> only has 140,000km on it.

I'm pretty sure they're a hydraulic clutch Trev, so check the master
cylinder for fluid loss and/or wetness around the slave cylinder. It's
possible that it's a hydraulic problem, but you won't know until you look.


--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Trevor Wilson]

**Yeah, my mechanic called me back and said the same thing. You're both
right. There's no clutch fluid left. He said it probably has a slow
leak, which shouldn't be a major problem. The handbook says that if I
don't use Ford break fluid, then the car will explode (or something like
that) and that mixing brands of break fluids is a *very bad thing*. True?

--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au

[D Walford]

Sounds like the pressure plate spring/springs have broken or the lining
has completely worn off the clutch disc, either way it sounds like it
needs replacing.
How many kms has it done?

--
Daryl

[Bob Milutinovic]

"Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:bg82g3...@mid.individual.net...

This manual might come in handy for you;
<http://www.pmx626.info/US/Workshop%20Manuals/Mazda%20626%20&%20MX-6/PDF/1989%20US%20Workshop%20Manual_OCR.pdf>

(Hint: right-click on the link and choose "Save Link As" or "Save Target
As" - you don't want to open it in your browser unless you're a masochist).

Granted it's for the US version, but I don't think there'll be anything
major (apart from emission control and a couple of safety features).

I had a similar problem on a Datsun Bluebird (yes, I _am_ ashamed to have
owned one!) back in the late '80s; it turned out that the hose had developed
a crack where it mated with the clutch master cylinder and was letting fluid
out and air in with each press of the pedal.

--
Bob Milutinovic
Cognicom

[Trevor Wilson]

**136,000km. However, as noted in my response to Nods, the clutch fluid
is non-existent. Because Ford/Mazda thoughtfully hid the container away
from easy access (I had to dig out the owner's handbook to locate it), I
had always assumed that it was a cable clutch. It ain't.

--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au

[Clocky]

"Trevor Wilson" <tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:bg82g3...@mid.individual.net...

It's BS to get you to buy the Ford brake fluid ;-)

But mixing is not an issue since in the process of bleeding (slave cylinder
has a nipple for this purpose) you keep going until the fluid coming out
looks as clean as what is going in, thereby flushing the system of the old
fluid. It's pretty important that you bleed the system properly though.

As far as identifying the problem, pull the dust cover on the slave cylinder
back and see if fluid pisses out to check the slave cylinder for leakage and
check the firewall under the bonnet for signs of paint bubbling or fluid
under the clutch master cylinder where it passes through the firewall.

Replacing either is pretty easy.

[Bob Milutinovic]

"Clocky" <not...@happen.com> wrote in message
news:529ed803$0$2833$c3e8da3$7649...@news.astraweb.com...

And don't forget to check other fluids while you're at it -
http://youtu.be/wZV7A6Nknps ;-)

--
Bob Milutinovic
Cognicom

[Noddy]

On 04/12/13 6:04 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:

> **Yeah, my mechanic called me back and said the same thing. You're both
> right. There's no clutch fluid left. He said it probably has a slow
> leak, which shouldn't be a major problem. The handbook says that if I
> don't use Ford break fluid, then the car will explode (or something like
> that) and that mixing brands of break fluids is a *very bad thing*. True?

You already know that's bullshit :)

Any old brake fluid will be fine, provided it's not silicone based
(which you wouldn't get in a "handy" sized container from a service
station).

All brake fluids mix together fine apart from regular and silcone based,
and your car uses regular.



--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[D Walford]

You might get lucky then if it turns out to only be a hydraulic problem
which should be easy to fix.

--
Daryl

[Xeno Lith]

On 4/12/2013 6:03 pm, D Walford wrote:
> On 04/12/2013 4:06 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> I can't locate the service manual for the Telstar ATM. The clutch has
>> developed a problem which seems to be getting rapidly worse. The clutch
>> is enaging fully within a 50 - 60mm of the firewall. The 'spring' (or
>> whatever returns the pedal to it's normal position) feels weaker than
>> usual. I presume it is a cable clutch. Is it likely to be a simple
>> adjustment, or am I looking at something more serious?
>>

I'd be checking the simple stuff first. Check the pedal clearance and
clutch throwout lever clearance. If it is a hydraulic clutch actuating
mechanism, check fluid reservoir level. Try bleeding the clutch
hydraulic system first.
I don't know what that particular vehicle has in the way of a clutch
actuating mechanism but the symptoms described point to air in the
hydraulic system. It's where I would check first.

>>
> Sounds like the pressure plate spring/springs have broken

Could cause judder on takeup as the springs or diaphragm rarely (or
buckle) break nice and evenly.

> or the lining has completely worn off the clutch disc,

If the plate was worn out, the clutch would take up high on the pedal
stroke, not low. It would also remove the release lever clearance
worsening the condition and causing slip.

> either way it sounds like it needs replacing.

So you condemn it just like that?

> How many kms has it done?
>

Irrelevant. Clutch life is one of those aspects of a car that is totally
dependent on how and where it is driven.

--

Xeno

[Albm&ctd]

In article <bg838f...@mid.individual.net>, tre...@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au
says...

> **136,000km. However, as noted in my response to Nods, the clutch fluid
> is non-existent. Because Ford/Mazda thoughtfully hid the container away
> from easy access (I had to dig out the owner's handbook to locate it), I
> had always assumed that it was a cable clutch. It ain't.
>
>

Are you for real or this just trolling... or are global warming advocates really
that dumb? You are doing nothing for your species.

Al
--
I don't take sides.
It's more fun to insult everyone.

[Albm&ctd]

In article <529eeecd$0$29865$c3e8da3$5496...@news.astraweb.com>,
dwal...@internode.on.net says...

Yep, throw on a new clutch master cylinder and maybe re-kit or replace the
slave. The sacred fluid is probably like gravy :)

[John_H]

Noddy wrote:
>
>I'm pretty sure they're a hydraulic clutch Trev, so check the master
>cylinder for fluid loss and/or wetness around the slave cylinder. It's
>possible that it's a hydraulic problem, but you won't know until you look.

From memory the brake and clutch hydraulics share a common reservoir
so if there's a loss of fluid, which affects the clutch first IIRC,
you still need to ascertain precisely where the leak is.

IOW he might need to check out the brake hydraulics as well.

--
John H

[Trevor Wilson]

**Thanks John. No, there are two reservoirs. The brake reservior is
obvious and very easy to locate (on the booster). The clutch reservior
is tucked away, behind the engine, near the firewall and quite hidden
from view. Frankly, given everything on this vehicle is a model of
Japanese efficiency and convenience, I was surprised at how the clutch
reservoir was so inconveniently placed. My only other gripe has been the
pitifully tiny battery. Other than that, the Telstar has exhibited
typical Japanese reliability.

--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au

[Noddy]

On 05/12/13 8:12 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote:

> **Thanks John. No, there are two reservoirs. The brake reservior is
> obvious and very easy to locate (on the booster). The clutch reservior
> is tucked away, behind the engine, near the firewall and quite hidden
> from view. Frankly, given everything on this vehicle is a model of
> Japanese efficiency and convenience, I was surprised at how the clutch
> reservoir was so inconveniently placed. My only other gripe has been the
> pitifully tiny battery. Other than that, the Telstar has exhibited
> typical Japanese reliability.

You've been very lucky Trev, as the things are notorious for head gasket
issues and always have been.



--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Clocky]

"Noddy" <m...@wardengineering.com.au> wrote in message
news:l7obk4$7k4$4...@dont-email.me...

Yep, can vouch for that.

[D Walford]

Not wrong, I remember doing a head gasket on one and found the head
bolts were not much more than finger tight, I though the bloke I was
working with had already loosened them but he said he hadn't.
The engine in the E2000 vans is much the same and I've done a couple of
head gaskets on those too.

--
Daryl

[Trevor Wilson]

**The 2.2 Litre FI model? My mechanic said this: "If you look after it,
you'll have no problems. They're no more, or no less relaible than any
other Jap engine." We do have it serviced regularly and the car has a
very easy life. SWMBO (who has owned it since new) washed and waxed it a
few weeks back. Looked like it just came off the showroom floor.

Oh yeah: Some new fluid and the clutch works a treat.



--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au

[Noddy]

On 05/12/13 4:55 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:

> **The 2.2 Litre FI model?

All of them. The cylinder head casting is a particularly bad design.

> Oh yeah: Some new fluid and the clutch works a treat.

Cool.



--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[D Walford]

The ones I worked on were about 5yrs older so maybe they fixed the issue
by 89?

>
> Oh yeah: Some new fluid and the clutch works a treat.
>
>

Lucky.


--
Daryl

[Trevor Wilson]

On 5/12/2013 5:07 PM, Noddy wrote:
> On 05/12/13 4:55 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>
>> **The 2.2 Litre FI model?
>
> All of them. The cylinder head casting is a particularly bad design.

**Oh well. Too late to bother now. The car is worth almost nothing
anymore. Pity. It's a TX5 Gia. All the fruit. drives well (for a FWD).
The same mechanic serviced my VL 6cyl. First thing he did was to replace
the radiator cap with a Japanese one. He reckoned that should forstall
the cracked head problem. He warned me to look after the cooling system
and, if I did, the engine would never give me any trouble. I put a
couple of hundred thousand clicks on it and it was still perfect when I
sold it. Maybe he knows his stuff.

Geez that was a nice engine.


--
Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au

[Noddy]

On 05/12/13 8:30 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:

> **Oh well. Too late to bother now.

It is, and for what it's worth if the thing is regularly maintained
correctly and the engine is shut down the *instant* it ever gets towards
unnaturally hot it won't be anything to worry about. Their problem seems
to be that they have very little margin for error, and don't like
spending any time in an overheat environment.

> The car is worth almost nothing
> anymore. Pity. It's a TX5 Gia. All the fruit. drives well (for a FWD).

I may have mentioned it once before, but a former neighbour had one that
he gave me when he bought his new Alfa 147. It was the turbo version,
and the reason he gave it to me was because it was *so* run down that
the dealer wasn't even interested in taking it off his hands for free as
a trade in.

I happily took it, as it meant an easy couple hundred for me from one of
the local car collectors.

> The same mechanic serviced my VL 6cyl. First thing he did was to replace
> the radiator cap with a Japanese one. He reckoned that should forstall
> the cracked head problem. He warned me to look after the cooling system
> and, if I did, the engine would never give me any trouble. I put a
> couple of hundred thousand clicks on it and it was still perfect when I
> sold it. Maybe he knows his stuff.
>
> Geez that was a nice engine.

They were okay. They had an excellent bottom end with a great main cap
girdle system, but again they had a flimsy head casting. They used to
crack from one end to the other right through the middle of the cam
bore, and I reckon I must have welded up 300 of the things in my time :)

The interesting thing was that once they were weld repaired and line
bored, their integrity seemed to improve dramatically and heads that had
been so repaired didn't seem to suffer from heat related issues again.






--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[pedro]

On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 20:43:24 +1100, Noddy <m...@wardengineering.com.au>
wrote:

>On 05/12/13 8:30 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:

>> The same mechanic serviced my VL 6cyl. First thing he did was to replace
>> the radiator cap with a Japanese one. He reckoned that should forstall
>> the cracked head problem. He warned me to look after the cooling system
>> and, if I did, the engine would never give me any trouble. I put a
>> couple of hundred thousand clicks on it and it was still perfect when I
>> sold it. Maybe he knows his stuff.
>>
>> Geez that was a nice engine.
>
>They were okay. They had an excellent bottom end with a great main cap
>girdle system, but again they had a flimsy head casting. They used to
>crack from one end to the other right through the middle of the cam
>bore, and I reckon I must have welded up 300 of the things in my time :)

The main issue with the RB30 in the VL (vs Skyline) was the radiator
being significantly lower than the head/manifold water passages. This
resulted in air pockets which if not properly bled would interfere
with head cooling. You guys (Nod, Cloggy etc) may have seen a
shitload more of these than I have, but I can say I have never seen a
head fail on one where the manintenance regime was anal about bleeding
the air out. The head on my own VL had never been unbolted by the
time I sold it in 2009 with 320,000 on the clock.

[Xeno Lith]

That was a well known issue fairly early in the life of the VL.

Expect a tirade against dealerships from Noddy and Co. after your
comment! ;-)

--

Xeno

[Noddy]

On 06/12/13 11:34 AM, pedro wrote:

> The main issue with the RB30 in the VL (vs Skyline) was the radiator
> being significantly lower than the head/manifold water passages. This
> resulted in air pockets which if not properly bled would interfere
> with head cooling. You guys (Nod, Cloggy etc) may have seen a
> shitload more of these than I have, but I can say I have never seen a
> head fail on one where the manintenance regime was anal about bleeding
> the air out. The head on my own VL had never been unbolted by the
> time I sold it in 2009 with 320,000 on the clock.

That's true, and I knew of a few that dud uber high mileage at the hands
of people who drove them hard. Still, the engines themselves had a
*really* tight margin for error as far as overheating went, and when
that was exceeded they let go in a *big* way.

That, and crank angle sensors. They ate crank angle sensors like corn
flakes, and one of the blokes I knew with one kept a spare in his glovvy
that he could change on the side of the road in 15 minutes.



--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[pedro]

On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 12:46:38 +1100, Noddy <m...@wardengineering.com.au>
wrote:

>On 06/12/13 11:34 AM, pedro wrote:
>
>> The main issue with the RB30 in the VL (vs Skyline) was the radiator
>> being significantly lower than the head/manifold water passages. This
>> resulted in air pockets which if not properly bled would interfere
>> with head cooling. You guys (Nod, Cloggy etc) may have seen a
>> shitload more of these than I have, but I can say I have never seen a
>> head fail on one where the manintenance regime was anal about bleeding
>> the air out. The head on my own VL had never been unbolted by the
>> time I sold it in 2009 with 320,000 on the clock.
>
>That's true, and I knew of a few that dud uber high mileage at the hands
>of people who drove them hard. Still, the engines themselves had a
>*really* tight margin for error as far as overheating went, and when
>that was exceeded they let go in a *big* way.

SWMBO brought it home one day saying "it smells funny" which is
woman-speak for "I think I've stuffed something". Sure enough, it was
the familiar smell of a vented cooling system - and we live at the end
of a 250m elevation climb followed by 3km of level running, so I
figure it dumped all the coolant on the hillside. Replaced the
ruptured hose, refilled it and all was fine afterwards - no loss of
compression, no apparent loss of power, no leaks or issues. Lucky as,
should have bought a Lotto ticket.

(Bought her a Corolla after that. Now done 170,000 and only globes
(3) and batteries (2) been added. They're an unexciting but safe bet
for a woman.)

>That, and crank angle sensors. They ate crank angle sensors like corn
>flakes, and one of the blokes I knew with one kept a spare in his glovvy
>that he could change on the side of the road in 15 minutes.

Yep, mine did one - and a long way from home. Thankfully the
after-market replacement unit lasted until I sold her several years
later.

[Noddy]

On 06/12/13 9:08 PM, pedro wrote:

> SWMBO brought it home one day saying "it smells funny" which is
> woman-speak for "I think I've stuffed something". Sure enough, it was
> the familiar smell of a vented cooling system - and we live at the end
> of a 250m elevation climb followed by 3km of level running, so I
> figure it dumped all the coolant on the hillside. Replaced the
> ruptured hose, refilled it and all was fine afterwards - no loss of
> compression, no apparent loss of power, no leaks or issues. Lucky as,
> should have bought a Lotto ticket.

Definitely.

> (Bought her a Corolla after that. Now done 170,000 and only globes
> (3) and batteries (2) been added. They're an unexciting but safe bet
> for a woman.)

And some men too.

> Yep, mine did one - and a long way from home. Thankfully the
> after-market replacement unit lasted until I sold her several years
> later.

Considerably cheaper than the ridiculously priced genuine unit as well :)



--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Noddy]

On 07/12/13 6:39 PM, Paul Saccani wrote:

> They go soft, you can't even machine them to put them back in service.
>
> The head bolts won't hold tension, due to the head being soft.

They're also almost completely hollow, which means as soon as they go
soft the bolt bosses collapse.




--
--
Regards,
Noddy.