How accurate are TK tests?
XR8 Sprintless
with it other than possibly dirty injectors causing it not to start in
the morning. They claim the TK test performed by the radiator specialist
is inaccurate. Anyone care to comment.
Vehicle was driven a total of 18km's whilst at the dealers. Seems a very
small mileage to test if the vehicle is leaking water.
As an aside the car was taken straight to my regular mechanic who is
pressure testing it overnight and will run another TK test in the morning.
Milton
"XR8 Sprintless" <xr8_s...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4bf3c6a9$0$27824$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
> Okay got the car back today with the claim that there is nothing wrong
> with it other than possibly dirty injectors causing it not to start in the
> morning.
Did they clean the injectors or just tell you that?
They claim the TK test performed by the radiator specialist
> is inaccurate. Anyone care to comment.
Hard to say but if the raditor specialist is a specialist, one would expect
it to be right.
>
> Vehicle was driven a total of 18km's whilst at the dealers. Seems a very
> small mileage to test if the vehicle is leaking water.
They could have had it idling to heat it up first. 18kms is plenty of
distance to check for water leaks.
>
> As an aside the car was taken straight to my regular mechanic who is
> pressure testing it overnight and will run another TK test in the morning.
Be careful you don't void your warranty by taking it to other mechanical
workshops as some of these warranties for 2nd hand cars you need to take it
to the dealer you bought the car from, unless that has changed over the
years.
Don't give up on it.
Regards
Milton
Noddy
"XR8 Sprintless" <xr8_s...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4bf3c6a9$0$27824$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
> with it other than possibly dirty injectors causing it not to start in the
> morning. They claim the TK test performed by the radiator specialist is
> inaccurate. Anyone care to comment.
What's a "TK" test?
--
Regards,
Noddy.
XR8 Sprintless
for traces of exhaust gases. Basically they have a fluid that changes
colour if exhaust gases are present in the radiator overflow tank. A
sample of the air is drawn up into a huge syringe type thing with a bulb
at the end of it and it mixes with the fluid.
Clocky
> "XR8 Sprintless" <xr8_s...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4bf3c6a9$0$27824$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>> Okay got the car back today with the claim that there is nothing
>> wrong with it other than possibly dirty injectors causing it not to
>> start in the morning.
>
> Did they clean the injectors or just tell you that?
>
> They claim the TK test performed by the radiator specialist
>> is inaccurate. Anyone care to comment.
>
> Hard to say but if the raditor specialist is a specialist, one would
> expect it to be right.
I wouldn't expect anything from anyone who claims to be a radiator
"specialist".
Clocky
TK headcheck. Are you serious?
Clocky
It shouldn't be used at the overflow tank but at the cooling system filler.
They can be pretty accurate in the right hands, but I'm not sure the person
who did yours qualifies.
XR8 Sprintless
however is the cooling system filler where the radiator cap is on the
plastic bottle or is it elsewhere?
XR8 Sprintless
can detect minute traces of exhaust gases. I didn't see it being done,
however looked on the net for a picture of a tk test kit.
Milton
"Noddy" <m...@home.com> wrote in message
news:4bf3d22e$0$89671$c30e...@exi-reader.telstra.net...
HUH? You're joking aren't you? LOL. Here is a prime example of why you need
to go to a radiator specialist and not any basic mechanic.
Regards
Milton
Milton
That's a fair description XR8. The colour of the fluid is usually blue and
if the exhaust gas is present it will change to yellow. It should only be
done at normal operating temperatures. I take it the colour changed to
yellow and the car dealer is claiming inaccuracy by the radiator guy?
It will only change to yellow if the exhaust gasses are present. This could
indicate a stuffed head gasket or a warped head or both. If this is the case
you will also need to find out what caused the overheating or it will just
happen again.
Good luck.
Regards
Milton
Noddy
"Clocky" <not...@happen.com> wrote in message
news:4bf3dca1$0$27868$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
> I wouldn't expect anything from anyone who claims to be a radiator
> "specialist".
Me either, and to be honest a combustion gas leak isn't something I'd
normally think a radiator repairer would do.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
> TK headcheck. Are you serious?
Indeed I am.
I've never heard of the term "TK test" before. I've only ever known the
procedure as a combustion gas test.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
"Milton" <mill...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4bf3e071$0$27869$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
> HUH? You're joking aren't you? LOL.
No Woge. If I was joking I'd say your part time job in the '70's was as John
Holmes' stunt double.
> Here is a prime example of why you need to go to a radiator specialist and
> not any basic mechanic.
Uh-huh.
I don't know of a radiator specialist worth his salt who would call himself
a "radiator specialist" and expect to be taken seriously :)
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
> That's a fair description XR8. The colour of the fluid is usually blue and
> if the exhaust gas is present it will change to yellow. It should only be
> done at normal operating temperatures. I take it the colour changed to
> yellow and the car dealer is claiming inaccuracy by the radiator guy?
>
> It will only change to yellow if the exhaust gasses are present. This
> could indicate a stuffed head gasket or a warped head or both. If this is
> the case you will also need to find out what caused the overheating or it
> will just happen again.
Take you long to Google all that shit up Woger?
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Milton
Come on, tell us why? You've already proved my earlier point of why you
shouldn't take it to a "basic'' mechanic. Fancy you not knowing what a TK
test is and even admitting it. Are you finally confessing you are human
afterall? ; )
Regards
Milton
Milton
ROFLMAO and the backpedaling begins.
Regards
Milton
Noddy
> It's a test where they check the gases from the radiator overflow tank for
> traces of exhaust gases. Basically they have a fluid that changes colour
> if exhaust gases are present in the radiator overflow tank. A sample of
> the air is drawn up into a huge syringe type thing with a bulb at the end
> of it and it mixes with the fluid.
Ah, okay. I've seen them but just never heard them called that before.
Presumably the car's got a coolant loss problem, but the overflow tank
probably isn't the best place to check for combustion gasses in the coolant.
What car is it again?
--
Regards,
Noddy.
XR8 Sprintless
>
> That's a fair description XR8. The colour of the fluid is usually blue
> and if the exhaust gas is present it will change to yellow. It should
> only be done at normal operating temperatures. I take it the colour
> changed to yellow and the car dealer is claiming inaccuracy by the
> radiator guy?
>
> It will only change to yellow if the exhaust gasses are present. This
> could indicate a stuffed head gasket or a warped head or both. If this
> is the case you will also need to find out what caused the overheating
> or it will just happen again.
>
I'm not sure that it is leaking fluid at the moment as there was a leak
from the 'o' ring on the heater pipe that connects to the lower
thermostat assembly, however the car is not starting properly in the
mornings with it failing to start first time each time with lots of
coughing and spluttering and then starting easily the next time you turn
the key. This made me think that it was possibly a busted head gasket
and I took it to the radiator shop as that was where I was advised to go
to have the test done.
In speaking to my usual mechanic when I left it there today, he advised
that it could be blocked injectors or a faulty injector causing the
problem although my description does sound like a head gasket issue. The
car is not overheating although if you give it a bootfull in park there
are drops of water coming from the exhaust.
My mechanic is putting it under pressure overnight and will check the
cylinders in the morning for water. Hopefully none and it is a problem
with the injectors however if it is the head gasket then it will have to
be fixed under statutory warranty. I am keeping a detailed log of my
dealings with the dealer at the moment as well.
XR8 Sprintless
from the 'o' ring on the lower thermostat housing where the heater pipe
I think goes in. However the issue is with starting in the morning. It
never starts first time but coughs and splutters, then when you turn the
key a second time it fires perfectly. It has a slight miss at idle as
well and I originally thought it may be a faulty coil pack but had the
exhaust gas check done on the advice of a customer who is a mechanic.
Noddy
> ROFLMAO and the backpedaling begins.
Gawd you're a fucking dickhead.
You wouldn't know what combustion gas was if someone pounded 50kg of the
stuff fair up your fat arse :)
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
> Come on, tell us why?
Why would I not recommend a radiator repairer for such a test? Basically,
because most radiator repairers aren't mechanics, and checking for head
gasket problems is usually outside of their field of expertise.
> You've already proved my earlier point of why you shouldn't take it to a
> "basic'' mechanic.
And what would your idea of a "basic mechanic" be Woger? I mean, you're
obviously qualified to make such a recomendation, right?
> Fancy you not knowing what a TK test is and even admitting it. Are you
> finally confessing you are human afterall? ; )
You'd love that, wouldn't you?
Sorry to disappoint you Woger, but like any other industry the automotive
trade is full of bullshit terms that make mundane, everyday jobs sound more
intensive or outlandish than what they are. Only the other day I heard a
bloke mention something called a "driveline harmonics re-alignment" and when
I asked what that was I discovered it was nothing more elaborate than a
tailshaft balance.
It sounded as impressive as fuck though :)
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
> It's a 2002 AU Falcon wagon I bought about 3 weeks ago. It had a leak from
> the 'o' ring on the lower thermostat housing where the heater pipe I think
> goes in. However the issue is with starting in the morning. It never
> starts first time but coughs and splutters, then when you turn the key a
> second time it fires perfectly. It has a slight miss at idle as well and I
> originally thought it may be a faulty coil pack but had the exhaust gas
> check done on the advice of a customer who is a mechanic.
So, is it using any water or is it just the starting issue that's the
problem?
The most common area for head gasket sealing problems with these engines is
on the driver's side of the engine right under the exhaust manifold. The
water jacket runs *very* close to the outside of the head in this area and
it doesn't take much in the way of corrosion for a leak to occur. When it
does it usually runs down the outside of the block, but it can be difficult
to spot as being right under the exhaust manifold it tends to evaporate
quite quickly and usually before it's had a chance to run down very far and
become visible. The best way to check is from under the car looking up at
the base of the head right under the manifold with a torch. If you see white
coloured liquid stains on the side of the block in this area you've got
problems.
However, this is pretty unlikely to be the cause of your starting problems
and without seeing the car first hand it's hard to know exactly what it
would be. Coil packs on the things are often flakey and will display the
symptoms you've described at times, but it could also be a fuel pressure
issue with a marginal pump. I'd also check to make sure the front of the
engine isn't covered with a shitload of grease & oil which can interfere
with the crank position sensor.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Clocky
To be fair though, TK is synonymous with that particular test and has been
for literally decades and not only in Perth it seems.
Walk into any workshop in Perth and say "TK" and they will know exactly what
you're talking about.
Clocky
Depends on the car, if the test was done at the cooling system resevoir it
may well have been done correctly but that isn't the overflow bottle.
> They state on the report that they use a machine from West Germany
> that can detect minute traces of exhaust gases. I didn't see it being
> done, however looked on the net for a picture of a tk test kit.
Well it looks like a bulb basically draws air from the top of the cooling
system filler through two chambers filled with blue fluid that turns green
if exhaust gases are present. That's the TK tester, but it's not the only
way to test for the presence of exhaust gas in the cooling system.
Clocky
It's not the only way as I've seen people accidentally suck up a little
coolant for a false positive diagnosis.
If carried out by an unskilled radiator "specialist" I would be a little
skeptical about the result.
XR8 Sprintless
> "XR8 Sprintless"<xr8_s...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4bf3e7ee$0$27826$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>
>> It's a 2002 AU Falcon wagon I bought about 3 weeks ago. It had a leak from
>> the 'o' ring on the lower thermostat housing where the heater pipe I think
>> goes in. However the issue is with starting in the morning. It never
>> starts first time but coughs and splutters, then when you turn the key a
>> second time it fires perfectly. It has a slight miss at idle as well and I
>> originally thought it may be a faulty coil pack but had the exhaust gas
>> check done on the advice of a customer who is a mechanic.
>
> So, is it using any water or is it just the starting issue that's the
> problem?
It was using water as there was a leak on the 'o' ring on the heater
pipe entry to the thermostat housing, however once that was fixed I took
it straight to the radiator shop for the exhaust gas test as the
starting problem did sound like it could be a head gasket. I haven't
driven it more than 20km since to see if it is still using water. I'll
replace the coil pack shortly as I have one already for it.
>
> The most common area for head gasket sealing problems with these engines is
> on the driver's side of the engine right under the exhaust manifold. The
> water jacket runs *very* close to the outside of the head in this area and
> it doesn't take much in the way of corrosion for a leak to occur. When it
> does it usually runs down the outside of the block, but it can be difficult
> to spot as being right under the exhaust manifold it tends to evaporate
> quite quickly and usually before it's had a chance to run down very far and
> become visible. The best way to check is from under the car looking up at
> the base of the head right under the manifold with a torch. If you see white
> coloured liquid stains on the side of the block in this area you've got
> problems.
Thanks for that, I will check it once I get it back.
> However, this is pretty unlikely to be the cause of your starting problems
> and without seeing the car first hand it's hard to know exactly what it
> would be. Coil packs on the things are often flakey and will display the
> symptoms you've described at times, but it could also be a fuel pressure
> issue with a marginal pump. I'd also check to make sure the front of the
> engine isn't covered with a shitload of grease& oil which can interfere
> with the crank position sensor.
>
The engine is very clean having been detailed by the dealer.
Hopefully I should know the outcome tomorrow once my mechanic has
checked it.
XR8 Sprintless
> XR8 Sprintless wrote:
>>> My description may not be accurate as I said I am not a mechanic,
>>> however is the cooling system filler where the radiator cap is on the
>>> plastic bottle or is it elsewhere?
>>>
>
> Depends on the car, if the test was done at the cooling system resevoir it
> may well have been done correctly but that isn't the overflow bottle.
It's an AU Series 3 Forte Wagon.
>
>> They state on the report that they use a machine from West Germany
>> that can detect minute traces of exhaust gases. I didn't see it being
>> done, however looked on the net for a picture of a tk test kit.
>
> Well it looks like a bulb basically draws air from the top of the cooling
> system filler through two chambers filled with blue fluid that turns green
> if exhaust gases are present. That's the TK tester, but it's not the only
> way to test for the presence of exhaust gas in the cooling system.
>
There's a few theories as to what the problem could be which hopefully
my mechanic can work out for me in the next day. He is doing a pressure
test overnight and another TK test tomorrow. Hopefully he will be able
to identify what is wrong with the car.
Noddy
> To be fair though, TK is synonymous with that particular test and has been
> for literally decades and not only in Perth it seems.
Maybe it's a "brand name" thing.
There used to be a few different chemical tests over the years. If I
remember correctly some company made a little dye pill that you could drop
into a radiator and it would change the coolant to a certain colour if there
was exhaust gas present while another would require a smale to be taken and
mixed with another liquid to again change the colour and signify exhaust
gas.
Personally I've only ever thought of such tools as gimmicks. If you can't
detect the presence of a combustion leak into a cooling system with an
exhaust gas analyser or a pressure gauge on the radiator you need to be
looking in other areas.
> Walk into any workshop in Perth and say "TK" and they will know exactly
> what you're talking about.
Never heard of it before.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Clocky
> On 19/05/2010 11:10 PM, Milton wrote:
>>
>
>> That's a fair description XR8. The colour of the fluid is usually
>> blue and if the exhaust gas is present it will change to yellow. It
>> should only be done at normal operating temperatures. I take it the
>> colour changed to yellow and the car dealer is claiming inaccuracy
>> by the radiator guy?
>>
>> It will only change to yellow if the exhaust gasses are present. This
>> could indicate a stuffed head gasket or a warped head or both. If
>> this is the case you will also need to find out what caused the
>> overheating or it will just happen again.
>>
> I'm not sure that it is leaking fluid at the moment as there was a
> leak from the 'o' ring on the heater pipe that connects to the lower
> thermostat assembly, however the car is not starting properly in the
> mornings with it failing to start first time each time with lots of
> coughing and spluttering and then starting easily the next time you
> turn the key. This made me think that it was possibly a busted head
> gasket and I took it to the radiator shop as that was where I was
> advised to go to have the test done.
>
> In speaking to my usual mechanic when I left it there today, he
> advised that it could be blocked injectors or a faulty injector
> causing the problem although my description does sound like a head
> gasket issue.
It could also be the fuel is draining back to the tank because of a leaking
anti-drain back valve leaving the lines empty. That is easy to check though,
turn the ignition on and listen for the fuel pump priming up. When it
completes (after a few seconds), try cranking the vehicle and see if it
starts right away.
Also, make sure the fuel pump is actually priming up, if you can't hear it
check the fuel pump relay. You might think that a faulty fuel pump relay
would prevent the car from running but this may not be the case if a backup
circuit is employed (ie one that runs off the oil pressure switch circuit).
The car is not overheating although if you give it a
> bootfull in park there are drops of water coming from the exhaust.
>
Remember that for every litre of fuel that is burned a litre of water is
produced so that doesn't indicate much in itself.
If the coolant is being burnt though, you will usually get a smell
associated with that and not so much water as steam.
> My mechanic is putting it under pressure overnight and will check the
> cylinders in the morning for water. Hopefully none and it is a problem
> with the injectors however if it is the head gasket then it will have
> to be fixed under statutory warranty. I am keeping a detailed log of
> my dealings with the dealer at the moment as well.
Your best option. Pressure test overnight, pull the plugs and crank it over
with a length of cardboard placed over the plug holes.
A mist of water will soon confirm a head gasket problem.
Hope this helps, certainly more information a radiator "specialist" could
possible come up with ;-)
Noddy
> The engine is very clean having been detailed by the dealer.
Okay, then if you've got access to compressed air give all the electrical
connectors a good blow out and make sure there's no water shorting, and push
them all home to make sure they're seated properly.
It may seem far fetched, but some connectors can hold water for *ages*.
> Hopefully I should know the outcome tomorrow once my mechanic has checked
> it.
Fingers crossed.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Clocky
That's amazing. As I have mentioned elsewhere, in WA at least, the"TK" test
is the combustion gas test.
atec7 7
If it isn't water or head gsk I would be looking at the fuel reg on the
end of the injection manifold might be leaking when cold
clamping the return line will tell you as I have had a couple which
leaked a little until things built up and then the motor ran ok , very
difficult to work out the first time
Clocky
There is no such thing as a radiator specialist, though I'm sure there are
plenty that are wannabe but unqualified mechanics pretending to be capable
of diagnosing head problems working in radiator swap shops.
Brad
> On 19/05/2010 9:51 PM, Noddy wrote:
>> news:4bf3c6a9$0$27824$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>>> Okay got the car back today with the claim that there is nothing
>>> wrong with it other than possibly dirty injectors causing it not to
>>> start in the morning. They claim the TK test performed by the
>>> radiator specialist is inaccurate. Anyone care to comment.
>>
>> What's a "TK" test?
>>
> for traces of exhaust gases. Basically they have a fluid that changes
> colour if exhaust gases are present in the radiator overflow tank. A
> sample of the air is drawn up into a huge syringe type thing with a
> bulb at the end of it and it mixes with the fluid.
I had one done in the last couple of weeks too. My mechanic sent me to the
local radiator shop to have it done as he didn't have the tester.
According to the guy who did it on mine... if they detect CO in the cooling
system it's 100% certain it's a head gasket, or a cracked/warped/corroded
head. (which is logical I think.. how else can carbon monoxide get in
there?) But not detecting CO does not rule it out.
--
Brad
Brad
> XR8 Sprintless wrote:
>> On 19/05/2010 9:51 PM, Noddy wrote:
>>> "XR8 Sprintless"<xr8_s...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4bf3c6a9$0$27824$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>>>> Okay got the car back today with the claim that there is nothing
>>>> wrong with it other than possibly dirty injectors causing it not to
>>>> start in the morning. They claim the TK test performed by the
>>>> radiator specialist is inaccurate. Anyone care to comment.
>>>
>>> What's a "TK" test?
>>>
>> It's a test where they check the gases from the radiator overflow
>> tank for traces of exhaust gases. Basically they have a fluid that
>> changes colour if exhaust gases are present in the radiator overflow
>> tank. A sample of the air is drawn up into a huge syringe type thing
>> with a bulb at the end of it and it mixes with the fluid.
>
> filler.
> They can be pretty accurate in the right hands, but I'm not sure the
> person who did yours qualifies.
Why do they have to be qualified? All the operator has to do is find the
right size attachment for the radiator, start the car, then sit back and see
if the testing fluid changes colour.
--
Brad
Brad
What do the ones you know call themselves?
--
Brad
Brad
The one I visited recently had an MTA(?) license sign on the wall, a couple
actually, and one said "Cooling Specialist", think the other said something
about Air Conditioning.
--
Brad
Jason James
> XR8 Sprintless wrote:
>> On 19/05/2010 9:51 PM, Noddy wrote:
>>> news:4bf3c6a9$0$27824$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>>>> Okay got the car back today with the claim that there is nothing
>>>> wrong with it other than possibly dirty injectors causing it not to
>>>> start in the morning. They claim the TK test performed by the
>>>> radiator specialist is inaccurate. Anyone care to comment.
>>>
>>> What's a "TK" test?
>>>
>> for traces of exhaust gases. Basically they have a fluid that changes
>> colour if exhaust gases are present in the radiator overflow tank. A
>> sample of the air is drawn up into a huge syringe type thing with a
>> bulb at the end of it and it mixes with the fluid.
>
> It shouldn't be used at the overflow tank but at the cooling system
> filler.
>
> They can be pretty accurate in the right hands, but I'm not sure the
> person who did yours qualifies.
At work, we used to get the car up to heat, with the cap off, light a
cig-lighter at the filler-neck. If the leak was substantial, you'd see some
small flames as the fuel/air bubbled out.
Jason
Milton
Maybe not, but I sure as s#*t knew what a TK test was. Got anything else?
; )
Regards
Milton
Milton
specialises in heating/cooling issues for your engine. Just as there are Air
Conditioning experts, Auto electricians, Automatic specialists etc.
Not all mechanics have the equipment and certainly one well known "hothead"
retired mechanic in here had never heard of a TK test before do you believe?
Regards
Milton
Feral
> Okay got the car back today with the claim that there is nothing wrong
> with it other than possibly dirty injectors causing it not to start in
> the morning. They claim the TK test performed by the radiator specialist
> is inaccurate. Anyone care to comment.
>
> small mileage to test if the vehicle is leaking water.
>
> As an aside the car was taken straight to my regular mechanic who is
> pressure testing it overnight and will run another TK test in the morning.
Hey D, does your rad specialist ;-) have the *Improved* TK
Tester/Block Tester/Combustion Leak Tester to safeguard
against false readings?
> http://www.uview.com/ProductDetail.php?PartNumber=560000
Or one of these crappy type ones?
> http://www.sulco.co.nz/Product?Action=View&Product_id=1410
--
Take Care. ~~
Feral Al ( @..@)
(\- :-P -/)
((.>__oo__<.))
^^^ % ^^^
XR8 Sprintless
analyzer on the car. Apparently they can also use them at the radiator
cap to test for leaks as well.
Feral
> I'm not sure what they used however I know they used an exhaust gas
> analyzer on the car. Apparently they can also use them at the radiator
> cap to test for leaks as well.
I read that also, whilst trying to find out if TK was an
acronim, and what it meant.
Feral
> XR8 Sprintless wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure what they used however I know they used an exhaust gas
>> analyzer on the car. Apparently they can also use them at the radiator
>> cap to test for leaks as well.
>
> I read that also, whilst trying to find out if TK was an acronim, and
> what it meant.
"acronym". duh
XR8 Sprintless
> XR8 Sprintless wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure what they used however I know they used an exhaust gas
>> analyzer on the car. Apparently they can also use them at the radiator
>> cap to test for leaks as well.
>
> I read that also, whilst trying to find out if TK was an acronim, and
> what it meant.
>
identifying code that the first kit was put out as. It seems though to
be a worldwide thing as it is mentioned on US sites as well.
Noddy
"Brad" <opti...@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote in message
news:4bf4...@news.x-privat.org...
> What do the ones you know call themselves?
Radiator repairers or "shops" I suppose. Most just call themselves by their
business name, such as "western radiators" for example, and I've never seen
one call themselves a "radiator specialist".
Considering the level of competency usually needed to repair radiators, it's
hardly surprising :)
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
> Maybe not, but I sure as s#*t knew what a TK test was. Got anything else?
> ; )
Yeah, your googling to see what the procedure actually involved was very
good :)
--
Regards,
Noddy.
jonz
>>
>>> It's a test where they check the gases from the radiator overflow
>>> tank for
>>> traces of exhaust gases. Basically they have a fluid that changes colour
>>> if exhaust gases are present in the radiator overflow tank. A sample of
>>> the air is drawn up into a huge syringe type thing with a bulb at the
>>> end
>>> of it and it mixes with the fluid.
>>
>> Presumably the car's got a coolant loss problem, but the overflow tank
>> probably isn't the best place to check for combustion gasses in the
>> coolant.
>>
>> What car is it again?
>>
> It's a 2002 AU Falcon wagon I bought about 3 weeks ago. It had a leak
> from the 'o' ring on the lower thermostat housing where the heater pipe
> I think goes in. However the issue is with starting in the morning. It
> never starts first time but coughs and splutters, then when you turn the
> key a second time it fires perfectly. It has a slight miss at idle as
> well and I originally thought it may be a faulty coil pack but had the
> exhaust gas check done on the advice of a customer who is a mechanic.
the no start on first attempt could be caused by a faulty fuel pump
check valve.
--
jonz
"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea - massive,
difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind
- boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." - Gene
Spafford,1992
Noddy
> I'm not sure what they used however I know they used an exhaust gas
> analyzer on the car. Apparently they can also use them at the radiator cap
> to test for leaks as well.
Indeed they can, and it's a fairly common (and usually very accurate) way to
test for combustion leakage into cooling systems.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Feral
I found it on an Oz site.
Tee-Kay Professional Head Check Kit
> http://www.revheads.com.au/clearance_items.html
Look under tools for STE K100. $148.65
jonz
>
>> HUH? You're joking aren't you? LOL.
>
> Holmes' stunt double.
>
>> not any basic mechanic.
>
>
> I don't know of a radiator specialist worth his salt who would call himself
> a "radiator specialist" and expect to be taken seriously :)
?????????????
>
> --
> Regards,
> Noddy.
Feral
> I don't know of a radiator specialist worth his salt who would call himself
> a "radiator specialist" and expect to be taken seriously :)
>
> --
> Regards,
> Noddy.
Natrad, E.C.B.S., A.A.A., Wishart, Pearls, Eastsideautomotive,
Mosmanautoradiators,
There's even: adradradiatorexperts and superiorradiators. Got
tickets on themselves eh?
None of those would be worth their salt eh?
<flick>
veritas
>
> Sorry to disappoint you Woger, but like any other industry the automotive
> trade is full of bullshit terms that make mundane, everyday jobs sound more
> intensive or outlandish than what they are. Only the other day I heard a
> bloke mention something called a "driveline harmonics re-alignment" and when
> I asked what that was I discovered it was nothing more elaborate than a
> tailshaft balance.
>
> It sounded as impressive as fuck though :)
Only I'd rather the latter.
Noddy
"Feral" <plo...@home.ru> wrote in message
news:ht23r5$j7q$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> Natrad, E.C.B.S., A.A.A., Wishart, Pearls, Eastsideautomotive,
> Mosmanautoradiators,
Well, I've heard of Natrad.... :P
> There's even: adradradiatorexperts and superiorradiators. Got tickets on
> themselves eh?
If they call themselves "specialists" they have, yeah.
> None of those would be worth their salt eh?
Probably not to the trade. Most "specialists" pander to the ignorant plebs
like you.
> <flick>
Ah! The calling card of the fucking idiot. How totally unexpected :)
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
"jonz" <fj...@deisel.com> wrote in message
news:4bf48c99$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>> I don't know of a radiator specialist worth his salt who would call
>> himself
>> a "radiator specialist" and expect to be taken seriously :)
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ?????????????
Sorry Einstein, but did that go over your head as usual?
Maybe I should rephrase. I know plenty of radiator *repairers*, but I don't
know any that call themselves radiator "specialists", as it's such a limited
field the sum total "specialist" interest could be learned in 15 minutes.
Shit, they could probably teach *you* how to solder a tank on in about an
hour :)
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Feral
> "jonz"<fj...@deisel.com> wrote in message
>> ?????????????
>
> Shit, they could probably teach *you* how to solder a tank on in about an
> hour :)
"solder", hmmmmm
jonz
Too late, been there, done that....:^)
veritas
>
> Maybe I should rephrase. I know plenty of radiator *repairers*, but I don't
> know any that call themselves radiator "specialists", as it's such a limited
> field the sum total "specialist" interest could be learned in 15 minutes.
>
> Shit, they could probably teach *you* how to solder a tank on in about an
> hour :)
Third Year (grade 9 now) at age 13 I learned to solder to a high
standard. You're right - just the basics needed along with common
sense. This was as well as hard-soldering, hardening & tempering,
case-hardening, rolling and folding metal, wrought iron heating and
forming, use of hand-tools.
I spoke to an ex year 12 student the other day who was a first year
apprentice baker. Nice lad but when asked about "leavening" and
hot-cross buns - well, you've seen that blank stare before :)
Knew FA about physics or chemistry -- bloody amazing.
Noddy
> "solder", hmmmmm
Yeah, Solder. They still do a fair bit of it. Didn't know that? The plastic
tank jobs he could learn to do in 5 minutes. After that, he'd be a fully
qualified "specialist".
> <flick>
<tard>
--
Regards,
Noddy.
jonz
> On 20/05/2010 12:07 PM, Noddy wrote:
>
>>
>> Maybe I should rephrase. I know plenty of radiator *repairers*, but I
>> don't
>> know any that call themselves radiator "specialists", as it's such a
>> limited
>> field the sum total "specialist" interest could be learned in 15 minutes.
>>
>> Shit, they could probably teach *you* how to solder a tank on in about an
>> hour :)
>
>
> Third Year (grade 9 now) at age 13 I learned to solder to a high
> standard. You're right - just the basics needed along with common sense.
> This was as well as hard-soldering, hardening & tempering,
> case-hardening, rolling and folding metal, wrought iron heating and
> forming, use of hand-tools.
and, in my case, moulding, lathe work, milling etc....K.E.T.C.Dunedin
NZ. With teachers that knew how to impart knowledge...my shop teacher
bought a servo/workshop and i went with him as an apprentice mechanic.
good days..
>
> I spoke to an ex year 12 student the other day who was a first year
> apprentice baker. Nice lad but when asked about "leavening" and
> hot-cross buns - well, you've seen that blank stare before :)
>
> Knew FA about physics or chemistry -- bloody amazing.
Noddy
> Too late, been there, done that....:^)
That explains *so* much :)
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
"jonz" <fj...@deisel.com> wrote in message news:4bf4...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> and, in my case, moulding, lathe work, milling etc....K.E.T.C.Dunedin
> NZ. With teachers that knew how to impart knowledge...my shop teacher
> bought a servo/workshop and i went with him as an apprentice mechanic.
> good days..
Nice.
So, what do you do now?
--
Regards,
Noddy.
veritas
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> and, in my case, moulding, lathe work, milling etc....K.E.T.C.Dunedin
> NZ. With teachers that knew how to impart knowledge...my shop teacher
> bought a servo/workshop and i went with him as an apprentice mechanic.
> good days..
Yep - my first and second years part-time at Sydney Technical College
(after intermediate secondary school, while working as an apprentice) at
Wattle St., Ultimo (now renamed some stupid thing like TAFE at Harris
St.) Hand-tools, lathe, mill, pedestal/radial drill, shaper, surface
grinder, sheet metal & more. It was exactly the same course for
fitters as well. Nothing Automotive 'till third year.
Getting a little OT here: I enjoyed the classes but far too slow, the
course was clearly set for the lowest common denominator students.
Bored the shitter out of me tho. Especially having the comprehension to
be ready to solo an aeroplane at 4 hours and later, a helicopter at 6
hours of instruction.
jonz
easing into retirement.....bit of spannering, bit of truck
driving....and a bit of navel contemplation...(prolly more than
less....:( )
>
> --
> Regards,
> Noddy.
D Walford
>>
>>> Come on, tell us why?
>>
>> Why would I not recommend a radiator repairer for such a test?
>> Basically, because most radiator repairers aren't mechanics, and
>> checking for head gasket problems is usually outside of their field
>> of expertise.
>>> You've already proved my earlier point of why you shouldn't take it
>>> to a "basic'' mechanic.
>>
>> And what would your idea of a "basic mechanic" be Woger? I mean,
>> you're obviously qualified to make such a recomendation, right?
>>
>>> Fancy you not knowing what a TK test is and even admitting it. Are
>>> you finally confessing you are human afterall? ; )
>>
>> You'd love that, wouldn't you?
>>
>> Sorry to disappoint you Woger, but like any other industry the
>> automotive trade is full of bullshit terms that make mundane,
>> everyday jobs sound more intensive or outlandish than what they are.
>> Only the other day I heard a bloke mention something called a
>> "driveline harmonics re-alignment" and when I asked what that was I
>> discovered it was nothing more elaborate than a tailshaft balance.
>>
>> It sounded as impressive as fuck though :)
>
> for literally decades and not only in Perth it seems.
>
> Walk into any workshop in Perth and say "TK" and they will know exactly what
> you're talking about.
>
>
Maybe its not known as that in Vic because I've never heard that test
referred to as a "TK" either.
Is TK the brand of equipment used?
Daryl
Noddy
"D Walford" <dwal...@internode.on.net> wrote in message
news:4bf4fae6$0$8803$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
> Maybe its not known as that in Vic because I've never heard that test
> referred to as a "TK" either.
> Is TK the brand of equipment used?
Best that I can tell "TK" is the name of a company that makes one of the
testers, which is possibly why they're not well known over this side.
As I said I've seen one of them before, and we had one at Repco which I
*think* may have been made by Warren & Brown. It never got used much as the
results seemed to be pretty hit and miss (more fake positives than not), and
it's usually a lot quicker to check for such a leak using basic equipment
without having to fuck around with the chemical tester and then wonder if
what the thing was telling you is actually true.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Clocky
In the right hands the TK test can be very effective and accurate, but in
the wrong hands they can be equally as effective, if you know what I mean.
Clocky
> Clocky wrote:
>> XR8 Sprintless wrote:
>>>>> Okay got the car back today with the claim that there is nothing
>>>>> wrong with it other than possibly dirty injectors causing it not
>>>>> to start in the morning. They claim the TK test performed by the
>>>>> radiator specialist is inaccurate. Anyone care to comment.
>>>>
>>>> What's a "TK" test?
>>>>
>>> It's a test where they check the gases from the radiator overflow
>>> tank for traces of exhaust gases. Basically they have a fluid that
>>> changes colour if exhaust gases are present in the radiator overflow
>>> tank. A sample of the air is drawn up into a huge syringe type thing
>>> with a bulb at the end of it and it mixes with the fluid.
>>
>> filler.
>> They can be pretty accurate in the right hands, but I'm not sure the
>> person who did yours qualifies.
>
> Why do they have to be qualified? All the operator has to do is find
> the right size attachment for the radiator, start the car, then sit
> back and see if the testing fluid changes colour.
Not the TK testers I'm used to using, they don't attach to the radiator.
Clocky
> "Clocky" <not...@happen.com> wrote in message
> news:4bf3f7cc$0$27871$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>> Milton wrote:
>>> "Noddy" <m...@home.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4bf3d22e$0$89671$c30e...@exi-reader.telstra.net...
>>>>
>>>> "XR8 Sprintless" <xr8_s...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:4bf3c6a9$0$27824$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>>>>> Okay got the car back today with the claim that there is nothing
>>>>> wrong with it other than possibly dirty injectors causing it not
>>>>> to start in the morning. They claim the TK test performed by the
>>>>> radiator specialist is inaccurate. Anyone care to comment.
>>>>
>>>> What's a "TK" test?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Noddy.
>>>
>>> HUH? You're joking aren't you? LOL. Here is a prime example of why
>>> you need to go to a radiator specialist and not any basic mechanic.
>>>
>>
>> there are plenty that are wannabe but unqualified mechanics
>> pretending to be capable of diagnosing head problems working in
>> radiator swap shops.
> A radiator specialist is one who has the tool for the TK test and only
> specialises in heating/cooling issues for your engine. Just as there
> are Air Conditioning experts, Auto electricians, Automatic
> specialists etc.
> Not all mechanics have the equipment and certainly one well known
> "hothead" retired mechanic in here had never heard of a TK test
> before do you believe?
Most cooling system "specialists" don't have the tools or expertise to
diagnose a head gasket problem though they probably know just enough to
misdiagnose the problem.
If you want your car diagnosed you take it to a mechanic not a radiator
salesman.
Noddy
> In the right hands the TK test can be very effective and accurate, but in
> the wrong hands they can be equally as effective, if you know what I mean.
I do.
I preferred the good old cooling system pressure tester myself, and Warren &
Brown made an excellent one. The gauge was very sensitive and would register
very small changes in pressure, which made it great for detecting minor
combustion leaks. Whack it on the radiator, put in some pressure and start
the engine, and if there was a slight leak the needle would dance around
with the pulses and let you know there was a problem.
All up it would take around 5 minutes, and there were no consumables to use.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Clocky
We had both, and used one test against the other to verify the diagnosis.
These days a shotgun diagnosis is enough to warrant relieving the customer
of a couple of grand, unfortunately ;-)
Noddy
> These days a shotgun diagnosis is enough to warrant relieving the customer
> of a couple of grand, unfortunately ;-)
You're not wrong :)
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Clocky
> "jonz" <fj...@deisel.com> wrote in message
> news:4bf4a49e$1...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>
>> Too late, been there, done that....:^)
>
> That explains *so* much :)
LOL, doesn't it ever :-)
Feral
>
> Me either. What's 'TK' meant to stand for then?
>
Here's part of my post to xr8sprintless, mid-morning yesterday.
<quote>
Tee-Kay Professional Head Check Kit
>> http://www.revheads.com.au/clearance_items.html
Look under tools for STE K100. $148.65
</quote>
Jason James
While in the case of an overheating problem, doing a "shotgun" (a term we
also used in radio-maint, when every capacitor for example, was replaced to
eliminate an intermittant) has merit, due all the stuff changed needed it
anyway,..I don't hold the same view for hours claimed on the job, in such an
endeavour tho.
Fast and accurate fault diagnosis is an ability worth its weight in gold.
Many techs, would just do a hit and miss, or a shotgun. The guy who took the
*time to understand the gear*, how it works and how it responds to each
component failure, usually got the promotions when they came along. You
could take any maintenance group, and virtually always, there was a
'hotshot' whom the supervisor kept to work on gear of a high need, meaning
little or no outages tolerated, or "novel and complex" equipment.
This concept, of a technician who actually took the time to study his
equipment, was often not unaminous. The section supervisor made a big
difference too. Some went so far as to direct a new tech to study a piece of
gear, then set an exam to test him out. It was fairly standard for a new
tech to wait up to a couple of years of 'on the job' training and extensive
study, before he was allowed to work on some high-dependency and critical
outage equipment, while alone. In any case tho, it was often deemed
mandatory, to have 2 techs working on such gear, anyway.
Jason
Milton
That's why they are used by Radiator Specialists. Your average Joe Blow
mechanic aka Darrin, wouldn't know how to use one.
Regards
Milton
Milton
Regards
Milton
Milton
Regards
Milton
Atheist Chaplain
whooooosh................
--
[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of
Scientology International]
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your
Christ." Gandhi
Noddy
> I'm glad you blokes understand it. Got me beat.
Why am I not surprised?
A packet of Smarties would have you in deep trouble.....
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Noddy
> That's why they are used by Radiator Specialists. Your average Joe Blow
> mechanic aka Darrin, wouldn't know how to use one.
The average Joe Blow wouldn't *want* to use one Woger. As I said to you
earlier, there are easier and more reliable methods of checking for such
problems without needing to resort to something that's going to look
impressive for the customer.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Milton
Darrin, I agree there are other methods but what can be easier and more
reliable than sucking up some liquid and watching for it to change colour?
The TK test is supposedly a very accurate test essentially designed to see
if there are traces of exhaust gasses in the radiator system and we all know
what usually causes that don't we?
Depending on the information available from the customer at the time, a
radiator specialist will check for other problems before performing a TK
test. It's usually one of these problems that will cause the head/gasket
issues which may then require the TK test, but I'm sure you already knew
that.
Regards
Milton
Milton
Well I'm asking you to explain it to me then, tia.
Regards
Milton
John_H
>"Noddy" <m...@home.com> wrote in message
>news:4bf61612$0$89671$c30e...@exi-reader.telstra.net...
>> "Milton" <mill...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:4bf5d5ee$0$8761$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>>
>>> That's why they are used by Radiator Specialists. Your average Joe Blow
>>> mechanic aka Darrin, wouldn't know how to use one.
>>
>> The average Joe Blow wouldn't *want* to use one Woger. As I said to you
>> earlier, there are easier and more reliable methods of checking for such
>> problems without needing to resort to something that's going to look
>> impressive for the customer.
>
>reliable than sucking up some liquid and watching for it to change colour?
Pretty unreliable I'd imagine. :))
Sampling the gas from _above_ the coolant in the top tank is the way
it's supposed to be done!
--
John H
Noddy
> Darrin, I agree there are other methods but what can be easier and more
> reliable than sucking up some liquid and watching for it to change colour?
The "easy" part is fine, but the "reliable" part isn't so great.
I haven't had a lot to do with them, but as I said in another post I mostly
consider them to be a gimmick as the ones I have used haven't been very
reliable at all. In fact, I suspect the fact that radiator shops seem to be
the most common users of the things speaks volumes for their usefullness.
> The TK test is supposedly a very accurate test essentially designed to see
> if there are traces of exhaust gasses in the radiator system and we all
> know what usually causes that don't we?
The last one I used was probably 20 years ago now, and while it's possible
that they might have improved by then I'd have to see it with my own eyes.
Back then they weren't much better than guessing, and getting a fake
positive was just about gauranteed as soon as you opened the box.
I remember trying the one we had at Repco on near new cars with no problems
and it would return a positive reading almost every single time. Whether it
was actually detecting exhaust gas in the coolant or not I can't tell you,
but if it was then it was in such minute amounts that it wasn't a problem as
far as the car was concerned.
I suspect it wasn't.
> Depending on the information available from the customer at the time, a
> radiator specialist will check for other problems before performing a TK
> test. It's usually one of these problems that will cause the head/gasket
> issues which may then require the TK test, but I'm sure you already knew
> that.
I don't know what radiator "specialists" are like in your part of the world,
but down here most of them aren't interested in looking a car and trying to
tell what's wrong with it. That's the mechanic's job. All the radiator
blokes want to do is fix the radiator.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
D Walford
The opposite is true, a "radiator specialist" specialises in repairing
radiators, diagnosing a leaking cylinder head gasket is not within their
field of expertise as that is a mechanics job.
Many "radiator specialists" are actually mechanics and it is that
qualification that makes them qualified to do such tests, repairing
radiators has sfa to do with cylinder heads.
Daryl
jonz
go back a few posts bloke........
>
> Regards
>
> Milton
jonz
>
Clocky
You're either plain stupid or a naive numpty if you believe there is such a
thing as a cooling system "specialist".
Clocky
> Noddy wrote:
>
>> I don't know of a radiator specialist worth his salt who would call
>> himself a "radiator specialist" and expect to be taken seriously :)
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Noddy.
>
> Natrad, E.C.B.S., A.A.A., Wishart, Pearls, Eastsideautomotive,
> Mosmanautoradiators,
>
> There's even: adradradiatorexperts and superiorradiators. Got
> tickets on themselves eh?
They're all in the business of selling radiators if that is what you mean.
> None of those would be worth their salt eh?
>
Sure, if you want to buy a radiator but I wouldn't trust any of them to
diagnose a cooling system fault.
Noddy
> You're either plain stupid or a naive numpty if you believe there is such
> a thing as a cooling system "specialist".
Yep, it'd be like being a ping pong ball specialist. There ain't a shitload
to be "special" at.
--
Regards,
Noddy.
Milton
> On 5/21/2010 3:45 PM, Milton wrote:
>>
>> "Noddy" <m...@home.com> wrote in message
>> news:4bf615b4$0$89673$c30e...@exi-reader.telstra.net...
>>>
>>> "Milton" <mill...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4bf5d6a3$0$8758$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>>>
>>>> I'm glad you blokes understand it. Got me beat.
>>>
>>> Why am I not surprised?
>>>
>>> A packet of Smarties would have you in deep trouble.....
>>>
>>> --
>>> Regards,
>>> Noddy.
>>
>> Well I'm asking you to explain it to me then, tia.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> go back a few posts bloke........
>>
No I want his version thanks. In other words he doesn't have one.
Regards
Milton
Milton
> You're either plain stupid or a naive numpty if you believe there is such
> a thing as a cooling system "specialist".
http://www.aaaradiator.com.au/
plus ever heard of Natrad? Have fun worming your way here.
Regards
Milton
Noddy
> No I want his version thanks. In other words he doesn't have one.
Give it up Woger.
The more you keep on with this shit the bigger dickhead you make yourself
out to be. Shit, Even *Jonz* was able to work it out for fuck's sake.....
--
Regards,
Noddy.
D Walford
You just proved his point, they are radiator sellers, they are not
specialists in diagnosing cooling system or cylinder head problems.
Daryl
Feral
Just pointing out that in their advertising on the web, they
all use the word "specialist" and somebody says you can't take
those ones seriously. Yeah?
Clocky
> "Noddy" <m...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:4bf61612$0$89671$c30e...@exi-reader.telstra.net...
>>
>> "Milton" <mill...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:4bf5d5ee$0$8761$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
>>
>>> That's why they are used by Radiator Specialists. Your average Joe
>>> Blow mechanic aka Darrin, wouldn't know how to use one.
>>
>> The average Joe Blow wouldn't *want* to use one Woger. As I said to
>> you earlier, there are easier and more reliable methods of checking
>> for such problems without needing to resort to something that's
>> going to look impressive for the customer.
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Noddy.
>
> Darrin, I agree there are other methods but what can be easier and
> more reliable than sucking up some liquid and watching for it to
> change colour?
Sucking up the liquid? Well that's one way to ensure a false positive.
Clocky
For the record, TK tests are an accurate diagnostic aid but are not perfect
as no method is but it is in the use of the tool where most, particularly
unqualified (radiator "specialists" et al) people fuck it up.