SilNylon or Equivalent in Australia?

[John Tee]

Hi all,

Can anybody tell me where to get SilNylon or any equivalent Ultra Light Weight fabric in Australia? I have a Hennesy Hammock and I want to make a simple but larger fly for it to cook under, store gear, sit, watch the rain etc :)

Alternatively has anyone ordered it from overseas?

Thanks, happy walking :) :j

[Roger Caffin]

John Tee wrote:

> Can anybody tell me where to get SilNylon or any equivalent Ultra Light Weight
> fabric in Australia? I have a Hennesy Hammock and I want to make a simple but
> larger fly for it to cook under, store gear, sit, watch the rain etc :)

The SilNylon trade name is not one I recognise. What company?

Alternately, what specs do you want to meet?

Cheers
Roger Caffin

[John T]

Hi, Silnylon isn't a trade name, it's a fabric. Silicon impregnated nylon is lightweight and strong and is used in the USA and Europe for many lightweight backpacking and climbing applications such as shelters, tent flys, compression sacks, tarps etc.... Typing Silnylon into any good search engine (e.g. www.google.com) will give you a good idea of the material and its uses. (But not, unfortunately, where to buy it in Australia that I can see). :)

[Alan Hogg]

> >John Tee wrote:
> >
> >> Can anybody tell me where to get SilNylon or any equivalent Ultra
Light Weight
> >> fabric in Australia? I have a Hennesy Hammock and I want to make a
simple but
> >> larger fly for it to cook under, store gear, sit, watch the rain etc :)
> >
> >The SilNylon trade name is not one I recognise. What company?
> >
> >Alternately, what specs do you want to meet?
> >

Hi there,

I bought a silnylon tarp from Campmor

(http://www.campmor.com/webapp/commerce/command/ProductDisplay?prmenbr=226&prrfnbr=88644)

They are very well made and light but 85 USD though, but the 10X12ft
version only weighs ca 500g. Integral Designs also make siltarps but they
are even more expensive (see the REI web site).

The postage from the US was about USD 20 as far as I recall. Neither the
tarps or the material are available here in NZ as far as I know.

Cheers,

Alan Hogg

[Roger Caffin]

John T wrote:

> Roger Caffin wrote:
> > John Tee wrote:
> >> Can anybody tell me where to get SilNylon or any equivalent Ultra Light Weight
> >> fabric in Australia? I have a Hennesy Hammock and I want to make a simple but
> >> larger fly for it to cook under, store gear, sit, watch the rain etc :)
> >The SilNylon trade name is not one I recognise. What company?

> Hi, Silnylon isn't a trade name, it's a fabric.

Yes, I realise it is a fabric. But the name had capitals in a
distinctive manner, which suggests that it may be a registered trade
mark for a fabric, just as "Pertex" is a registered trademark for the
fabric most sleeping bags are made from. That name belongs to
Perseverance Mills. "Polartech" is a registered tradename, and belongs
to malden Mills.

> Typing Silnylon into any good search engine (e.g. www.google.com) will give you
> a good idea of the material and its uses. (But not, unfortunately, where to buy
> it in Australia that I can see). :)

OK, I will see what I can find. If you hear no more, that means I have
found nothing.

Cheers
Roger Caffin

[John T]

[Roger Caffin]

> > Hi, Silnylon isn't a trade name, it's a fabric.
> Yes, I realise it is a fabric. But the name had capitals in a
> distinctive manner, which suggests that it may be a registered trade
> mark for a fabric, just as "Pertex" is a registered trademark for the
> fabric most sleeping bags are made from. That name belongs to
> Perseverance Mills. "Polartech" is a registered tradename, and belongs

> to Malden Mills.

No Roger, it is not a trade mark, it is a generic name. Silly boy.
I am still chasing the general name and source. It appears that
SilLite is a relevant trade mark however.

I think you can buy the material from OWFINC and another company in
America, but they are only distributors. They cater to the DIY outdoor
enthusiasts. It is not listed on the OWFIBC web site under than name,
but is probably the 1.1 oz/sqyd silicon proofed nylon.

But the original requestor has not posted his required specs yet:
there are alternatives around here in Sydney if you know what you
seek.

Cheers
Roger Caffin

[Peter McGonigal]

Roger Caffin wrote:
>
... it is probably the 1.1 oz/sqyd silicon proofed nylon.

>
> But the original requestor has not posted his required specs yet:
> there are alternatives around here in Sydney if you know what you seek.

I understand that there are various weights of the material available in
the USA - I have seen references also to 1.3oz, 1.5oz and 1.9oz silnylon
which apparently is silicone impregnated ripstop nylon. Recent
discussion on a mostly US site was about whether the 1.3 and below
fabrics are too little water resistant to be of use as a storm shelter.
There was a considerable difference of opinion on the point, with little
scientific evidence either way.

Probably many of us would be interested to know what are the lightest
waterproof fabrics available locally and how well they compare in
strength, eg against stretching or tearing.

This seems to be an appropriate thread in which to request Roger to let
us know of some of the alternatives.

[John T]

Roger Caffin <r.ca...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
>But the original requestor has not posted his required specs yet:
>there are alternatives around here in Sydney if you know what you
>seek.

Hi Roger, thanks for your posts... You guessed right, 1.1 oz/sqyd silicon impregnated rip-stop nylon is indeed the material I was refering too. What I'm looking for is the lightest material both waterproof and strong enough to use as a simple 'tarp tent' fly. I want to pitch my Hennessy Hammock under it 2-3 seasons or just sleep under it on the ground in winter. Any suggestions for alternatives/equivalents available in Sydney or Melbourne would be much appreciated.
Cheers, John T

[David Springthorpe]

On 30 Oct 2001 08:27:42 +1100, "John T" <john...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>Roger Caffin <r.ca...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
>>But the original requestor has not posted his required specs yet:
>>there are alternatives around here in Sydney if you know what you
>>seek.

>Hi Roger, thanks for your posts... You guessed right, 1.1 oz/sqyd silicon impregnated rip-stop nylon is indeed the material I was refering too. <snip>.....

Could you possibly consider forcing a maximum line length on your
posts, or has it something to do with using Hotmail to post ?

Thanks,
D.S.

[John T]

>But the original requestor has not posted his required specs yet:
>there are alternatives around here in Sydney if you know what you
>seek.

>Roger Caffin

Well, I'm seeking the lightest waterproof fabric I can find
which would be strong enough for use as a tarp tent fly... You
mention alternatives in Sydney... Could you tell me what they
are and where can I get them?

John T.

[Roger Caffin]

Peter McGonigal wrote:
> I understand that there are various weights of the material available in
> the USA - I have seen references also to 1.3oz, 1.5oz and 1.9oz silnylon
> which apparently is silicone impregnated ripstop nylon. Recent
> discussion on a mostly US site was about whether the 1.3 and below
> fabrics are too little water resistant to be of use as a storm shelter.

You have touched on a nerve. "Waterproof" does not really mean what
you think. Gore quote the US Army spec, which is pretty high. Others
worry only about a light shower.
Sheet steel is waterproof. Most fabric leaks at a certain pressure. I
use metric units because that's how my test apparatus is calibrated,
but you can convert.

The Olympus tent which is so highly regarded has fabric which starts
to leak at 10kPa. This is not much. The reason it leaks is because the
film of polyurethane (PU) painted over one surface is very thin and
can burst or puncture between the threads. Really bad cases of this
give rise to little fountains under pressure: cute, but sad. Old age
worsens this.

Some fabrics have the polyurethane forced into the fibres instead of
sitting on the surface. This is done with sail cloth to give it extra
strength - it binds the individual fibres together. But you can still
get small holes between the threads.

Some fabrics will leak just slightly under low pressure, then stay
that way to high pressure. Others start leaking at a higher pressure,
and rapidly get worse. But once the polyurethane coating gets thick
enough it will resist bursting, and the leak pressure can rocket.
100kPa is quite easy, but the slightly heavier coating does make the
fabric heavier. If you pressure one of these fabrics from the fabric
side you can, sometimes, burst the coating off the threads.

Finally, some fabrics seem to have a very light coating which may be
acrylic instead of PU. This is done to strengthen the loosely woven
fabric and give it some dimensional stability. Such fabrics are not
very waterproof.

Moving on to silicones, I have to admit only a limited knowledge. The
silicon will of course act in a similar manner to the PU, and may
often have been forced into the threads rather than being a coating on
the surface. Silicones are it is far more water-repellant as well.
This has great advantages, as this stops the water from wetting out
the fabric. So it will stay completely "waterproof" up to some
pressure, then fail suddenly. But I am not sure what lifetime it has,
and silicones do not 'breathe" the way PU does. Of course, for a tent
this does not matter.

There. You needed to know all that, didn't you? ;-)

> Probably many of us would be interested to know what are the lightest
> waterproof fabrics available locally and how well they compare in
> strength, eg against stretching or tearing.
> This seems to be an appropriate thread in which to request Roger to let
> us know of some of the alternatives.

Flattery will get you everywhere.
OK. For a tent fly you will normally be able to get away with quite a
low pressure rating. The old japara tents worked, and took almost no
pressure at all. So many fabrics will be OK for a fly. The one catch
here is the seam. If you sew the seams with a tight stitch and put a
little proofing along the seam, no trouble there. I did get one
untreated seam to leak on one occasion: it was hailing hard and the
impact of the hailstones on the water on the seam forced water through
the stitching holes. Extreme!

On the other hand, a groundsheet needs a much higher pressure rating.
You kneel on it and the pressure goes way up. I would prefer at least
50kPa, if not 100kPa. This is hard to get here: a plastic groundsheet
may be much cheaper - but slightly heavier. Avoid seams on the ground,
or seriously seam seal.

Yes, but what fabrics?! Well, there's not much really in Australia.
Most manufacturers import from specialised manufacturers in UK, Japan
or USA. (I do too.)
For flys you could try:
N19 from Synergy Textiles in Sydney
AIRXn00 sail clothes from Bainbridge Int in Sydney (sail-cloth: not
guaranteed)
70 denier ripstop from Ricky Richards in Sydney
Some coated nylons from a few cloth shops but test a bit first.
Some coated nylons from some bushwalking shops (esp Eastwood Camping
in Sydney) but test first

For groundsheets
Q78 from Speciality Coatings in Melbourne (good)
Maybe a heavier fabric from Eastwoood Camping, if still available.

Cheers
Roger Caffin

[Peter McGonigal]

Roger Caffin wrote:
>
> Yes, but what fabrics?! Well, there's not much really in Australia.
> Most manufacturers import from specialised manufacturers in UK, Japan
> or USA. (I do too.)
> For flys you could try:
> N19 from Synergy Textiles in Sydney
> AIRXn00 sail clothes from Bainbridge Int in Sydney (sail-cloth: not
> guaranteed)
> 70 denier ripstop from Ricky Richards in Sydney
> Some coated nylons from a few cloth shops but test a bit first.
> Some coated nylons from some bushwalking shops (esp Eastwood Camping
> in Sydney) but test first
>
> For groundsheets
> Q78 from Speciality Coatings in Melbourne (good)
> Maybe a heavier fabric from Eastwoood Camping, if still available.

Roger,
Thanks for the above. Do you have the weights in grams per square metre of any of
the above fabrics ? I am only interested in the fly materials but I expect that
others will be interested
also in the groundsheets.
Regards,
Peter McGonigal

[Roger Caffin]

John T wrote:

> Well, I'm seeking the lightest waterproof fabric I can find
> which would be strong enough for use as a tarp tent fly... You
> mention alternatives in Sydney... Could you tell me what they
> are and where can I get them?

Answered, I hope, in another posting nearby.

Cheers
Roger Caffin

[Roger Caffin]

> For flys you could try:

66gsm > N19 from Synergy Textiles in Sydney
30-60gsm > AIRXn00 sail clothes from Bainbridge Int in Sydney
(sail-cloth: not
> guaranteed)
70 gsm > 70 denier ripstop from Ricky Richards in Sydney
70+gsm > Some coated nylons from a few cloth shops but test a bit
first.
70+gsm > Some coated nylons from some bushwalking shops (esp Eastwood

Camping
> in Sydney) but test first
>
> For groundsheets

78gsm > Q78 from Speciality Coatings in Melbourne (good)
100?gsm > Maybe a heavier fabric from Eastwoood Camping, if still
available.

The AIRX sail cloths are very light and have PU proofing through the
threads rather than on the surface. The samples I have leak at low to
medium pressures which would be OK for a fly, but note that this
pressure rating is NOT guaranteed! The next batch could be better or
worse. But the tensile strength is guaranteed for use in lightweight
spinnakers.

Really, the N19 or RR 70den fabrics are fairly light and would
probably do fine. You should also pay a little attention to the weight
and stretch of the guy ropes and any fittings.

The Q78 makes a very good groundsheet: it was actually designed as a
biological barrier fabric for operating theatres, which means VERY low
porosity. :-)

Cheers
Roger Caffin

[Peter McGonigal]

Roger,

You enquired of an earlier poster in this thread what were his required
specifications.

I see from a web-site about another silicone impregnated fabric that it has a base of
"high tenacity 30 denier 1.1 oz parachute rip stop nylon impregnated with a 1/4 oz of
silicone". It claims, amongst other things, that the silicone impregnation keeps
the fabric waterproof to a pressure of 1 pound per square inch (2 ft water pressure
depth). See http://promountainsports.com.tarps-body.shtml

How would that compare with the fabrics to which you have referred ?

Regards, Peter

[Peter McGonigal]

Oops, left out the www so make that reference in my last post
http://www.promountainsports.com.tarps-body.shtml

Regards, Peter

[Roger Caffin]

Peter McGonigal wrote:

> I see from a web-site about another silicone impregnated fabric that
> it has a base of "high tenacity 30 denier 1.1 oz parachute rip stop
> nylon impregnated with a 1/4 oz of silicone".
>
> It claims, amongst other things, that the silicone impregnation keeps

> the fabric waterproof to a pressure of 1 pound per square inch.

1 psi is about 6.9 kPa.
Frankly, I would be reluctant to acept that even for a fly. Pity! I
would like to see at least 10 kPa and preferably 20 kPa for a fly (and
>80 kPa for a groundsheet).

Hum... That is for PU-coated nylon. I am less confident in quoting
figures for silicone-treated fabrics because I have done no testing on
them so far. The silicone may have the advantage of a superb water
repellant effect. And it may also help with the seams. I do not know.

I have some SilNylon fabric sample(s) coming: I will test and report
when they arrive.

Cheers
Roger Caffin
PS: and thanks for the URL. I will have a look.