GPS question
Johan Cruyff
I'm thinking of getting a GPS unit for bushwalking. Does the unit normally
include maps that I need (walking trails in Victoria and Tasmania) or do I
have to get it from somewhere.
Any recommendations on which unit to purchase?
Thanks.
Steve Walker
I found out
(1) If you are walking under forest cover - forget GPS - it doesn't work in
rainforest.
(2) Forget about mapping GPS - use topographical maps 1:25000 or 1:35000 -
you can get the UTS co-cordinates off these - make GPS points on a track
maker and use these.
(3) Mapping GPS will be outdated by the time you get it home - like a
computer - well it is a computer. You will still need a map and a compass -
no batteries in them.
(4) Make sure you get a computer cable with it when you buy a GPS - very
handy - the GPS is not very user friendly using all those buttons like
stuff.
I personally bought a ETEX Venture
because
It was at the lower end; it had a better quality LCD screen then the lower
cost ones; it gets me back to where I came from; and it has the mouse type
thingy - handy.
Best of luck - brace yourself for thousands of replies.
I have alse heard - via hearsay that Sliva and Magellan have better coverage
under leaf canopy - but 2 * 0 = 0
Steve Reynolds
tl...@yahoo.comNOSPAMPLEASE says...
> Hi all,
>
> I'm thinking of getting a GPS unit for bushwalking. Does the unit normally
> include maps that I need (walking trails in Victoria and Tasmania) or do I
> have to get it from somewhere.
Funny question :-) You buy the unit then you buy the topo's for the
areas you're going to walk in.
> Any recommendations on which unit to purchase?
I use a Garmin 12 XL, it's a few years old, I don't know if it's still
available, but it works OK.
I don't use mapping software and have no need for it, so I wouldn't buy
a computer cable.
Steve
Ben David
type anywhere in Australia. Basic mapping for Australia starts at $300+
over and above the price of the GPS unit. The base maps in any of the GPS
units is 30+ years old and next to useless.
One of the best reception units is the eMap from Garmin, or the new model
Magellan units. Magellan also has a soon to be released in Australia called
the SporTrak Pro which is an excellent unit for reception and has a new type
aerial. The performance of the SporTrak Pro was mighty impressive. There
is a press release on their website about these units:
http://www.magellan.com.au/news/index.htm?area=Press+Releases
These SporTrak units walk all over the eTreks in every way. Has taken
Magellan a long time to get their act together.
Personally I use an eMap and will buy a new SporTrak when released, and use
an iPaq with OziExplorer www.oziexplorer.com with all my maps on. I no
longer use paper maps.
--
"Johan Cruyff" <tl...@yahoo.comNOSPAMPLEASE> wrote in message
news:P_N09.505264$o66.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Johan Cruyff
news:nSO09.505395$o66.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> I asked a question like this and caused a flame war
>
> I found out>
> (1) If you are walking under forest cover - forget GPS - it doesn't work
in
> rainforest.
Is this pretty much for all the GPS units ? I don't know anything about them
but can see there is quite a price difference between some units. If it's
the case, I think I won't buy a GPS then......
> (2) Forget about mapping GPS - use topographical maps 1:25000 or
1:35000 -
> you can get the UTS co-cordinates off these - make GPS points on a track
> maker and use these.
> (3) Mapping GPS will be outdated by the time you get it home - like a
> computer - well it is a computer. You will still need a map and a
compass -
> no batteries in them.
>
> (4) Make sure you get a computer cable with it when you buy a GPS - very
> handy - the GPS is not very user friendly using all those buttons like
> stuff.
Thanks for your advice!
PeteM
> (1) If you are walking under forest cover - forget GPS - it doesn't work
in
> rainforest.
>
This is not quite correct... it depends on many things.
First thing is how do the satellites line up at the time. If there are at
least 3 satellites high in the sky then you have a good chance of getting a
reading. Otherwise forget it.
Secondly. Keep the GPS still while it is aquiring. It needs the signal to be
uninterupted during this period. If you wander around with it in your hand
then your GPS will never finish aquiring. Once you have a fix you can start
moving again.
Thirdly the chances of getting a fix are proportional to the amount of sky
you can see. I find that tight gorges are just as troublesome and thick
bush. You may be able to move a short distance to a better location with a
small hole in the canopy or move higher up the side of the valley so that
you can see more sky.
Forthly, keep the GPS on for a while after it has first got a fix. The
accuracy will improve as time goes on. Sometimes 2D fixes (using only 3
satellites) can be wildly innaccurate so treat them with caution. Either try
for a 3D fix or corroberate your reading with features on the map.
It is all a matter of skill and experience. To say that a GPS doesn't work
under tree cover is quite misleading. I use my GPS often and in the thick
bush is where I find it most useful.
Peter
which you can dowload for free. Its not really user freindly but when you
get the hang of it is very good.
There are a number of map possibilities. For example in NSW you can get
raster 250 K maps for the whole state about $100. Also you can get topo
maps for parts of the state. Sydney blue mountain etc is about $160. Both
of these work with oziexplorer. You can put in your own tracks, way points
etc. You can also download/upload between your GPS and computer. There is
an ozieplorer users group on the net and sometimes you can find tracks to
download.
Peter
"Ben David" <ab...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:rCQ09.506703$o66.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
David L. Jones
>
> I found out
>
> (1) If you are walking under forest cover - forget GPS - it doesn't work in
> rainforest.
Not necesariliy so.
My bottom of the range eTrex tracks trips into and out of canyons,
very often with quite dense rain forest cover. Locking on from a cold
start under such conditions can be difficult, but if it only has to
track then it often works very well as it grabs a little bit of signal
from here and there and is able to maintain at least a rough track.
Good enough to retrace your path etc.
Dave :)
Steve Reynolds
(nospam)ng"@jeack.com.au> says...
> I use the topo as well as a GPS. I just turn the unit on when I want to know
> where I am on the map.
Me to, and that's the only way I've ever seen anybody in our club use a
GPS.
I do know a 4WD driver who uses oziexplorer to populate his GPS with
waypoints for his trips which are usually very long expeditions in the
desert. It works for him, but it's just too much trouble for me for a
bushwalk.
I mostly use the GPS to confirm that I haven't stuffed up my navigation
with the compass and map. It's also really useful for recording grid
references for campsites, waterholes and places of interest.
Steve
Johan Cruyff
news:nSO09.505395$o66.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> I found out>
> (1) If you are walking under forest cover - forget GPS - it doesn't work
in
> rainforest.
Is this pretty much for all the GPS units ? I don't know anything about them
but can see there is quite a price difference between some units. If it's
the case, I think I won't buy a GPS then......
> (2) Forget about mapping GPS - use topographical maps 1:25000 or
1:35000 -
> you can get the UTS co-cordinates off these - make GPS points on a track
> maker and use these.
> (3) Mapping GPS will be outdated by the time you get it home - like a
> computer - well it is a computer. You will still need a map and a
compass -
> no batteries in them.
>
> (4) Make sure you get a computer cable with it when you buy a GPS - very
> handy - the GPS is not very user friendly using all those buttons like
> stuff.
Thanks for your advice!
Johan Cruyff
I'll go to the city and find out how much a Garmin eTrex is.
Ben David
--
"Steve Walker" <mr_w...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:nSO09.505395$o66.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> I asked a question like this and caused a flame war
>
> I found out
>
> (1) If you are walking under forest cover - forget GPS - it doesn't work
in
> rainforest.
1) Not true. If you have a larger GPS unit with a better aerial or an
external amplified aerial, you seldom loose GPS reception. It is also
important to have your GPS in the optimal position to receive the signal.
Some GPS receivers require to be vertical, others require them to be
horizontal, and the handbook always has which is the optimal orientation.
> (2) Forget about mapping GPS - use topographical maps 1:25000 or
1:35000 -
> you can get the UTS co-cordinates off these - make GPS points on a track
> maker and use these.
2) Depends what you want to use your GPS for. Personally I spend the large
majority of the time in the bush, and prefer a mapping unit even though it
has no relevance to the area I am walking in. If I am in a valley and
wanting to walk towards a destination without taking out the maps, and I
know the destination is say Granya, I can look this up on the GPS and making
sure I am heading in the right direction. I find it most useful, even
though the GPS unit I presently have has very basic mapping.
> (3) Mapping GPS will be outdated by the time you get it home - like a
> computer - well it is a computer. You will still need a map and a
compass -
> no batteries in them.
3) GPS equipment just does not change that fast, and essentially all the
basics of a GPS remain the same. All the same upload/download, track,
waypoint and route protocols and conventions apply to all the GPS units,
however sophisticated or basic.
> (4) Make sure you get a computer cable with it when you buy a GPS - very
> handy - the GPS is not very user friendly using all those buttons like
> stuff.
4) Agreed and the excellent freeware G7toWin http://home.attbi.com/~g7towin/
which does Magellan, Garmin and Lowarance.
>
>
> I personally bought a ETEX Venture
eTrek is poor on the reception scale and sold fairly well because there was
no competition.
> because
>
> It was at the lower end; it had a better quality LCD screen then the lower
> cost ones; it gets me back to where I came from; and it has the mouse type
> thingy - handy.
>
> Best of luck - brace yourself for thousands of replies.
>
> I have alse heard - via hearsay that Sliva and Magellan have better
coverage
> under leaf canopy - but 2 * 0 = 0
Silva is an excellent unit, and a very high quality bit of gear with the
best barometric pressure sensor on the market, if you need that features,
but it is a mighty expensive unit for what it is. With Magellan and Garmin
you cannot say one brand is better than the other, you have to look at each
company model by model.
Ben David
awfully difficult to do my job so well without it.
I load tracks, waypoints and routes to my GPS, as going through virgin
country it is very necessary to ensure you are on track.
--
"Steve Reynolds" <~@~.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.17afa507c3517ebc989736@news-server...
Ben David
250k Auslig TOPO maps are due out in two weeks. There will be two versions,
the seamless ones and the normal version as is currently available. The
maps have been substantially updated and improved in accuracy mainly for
moving map mode.
I would not say OziExplorer www.oziexplorer.com was not user friendly, I
would say it is different to what you are used to, as navigation programs
are like no other software. If you were familiar with Mr Sid or MapInfo you
would have no issue with OziExplorer. People who use paper maps and compass
are never aware of all the issues of navigation and how complex it is.
Digital mapping and the software programs that go with them are a quantum
leap from paper maps and compass.
--
"Peter" <pet...@ihug.com.au> wrote in message
news:ai1tnq$r3b$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
Steve Reynolds
ab...@mail.com says...
> I load tracks, waypoints and routes to my GPS, as going through virgin
> country it is very necessary to ensure you are on track.
Does virgin country have tracks? :-) But I agree with you, I just
achieve the same result differently.
Steve Reynolds
ab...@mail.com says...
> I would not say OziExplorer www.oziexplorer.com was not user friendly, I
> would say it is different to what you are used to, as navigation programs
> are like no other software. If you were familiar with Mr Sid or MapInfo you
> would have no issue with OziExplorer.
I agree there's nothing wrong with OziExplorer, but I am very familiar
with MapInfo, so perhaps that helps.
Ben David
yes, they are effectively tracks.
How do you achieve the same result affectively?
--
"Steve Reynolds" <~@~.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.17afc6b6dd0749ad989738@news-server...
Steve Reynolds
ab...@mail.com says...
> Yes, it does, because I create them on my computer before I get there. So
> yes, they are effectively tracks.
OK, I see what you mean.
> How do you achieve the same result affectively?
When I'm planning a walk I spend a fair amount of time studying the maps
and researching as much as possible what others have done. I then work
out the route, campsites, and water sources (I live in South Australia -
it's dry here). I then plot the significant waypoints on the maps, which
means putting pencil dots on the map.
Most of my walks are less than 20 kilometres a day so it's pretty simple
for a 10 day walk.
I'm only an average navigator, but there's usually at least one walker
in every group who likes to pit his/her navigation skills with a compass
against the GPS. Some astound me with their skills.
Group dynamics start to come in here, and my leadership approach is to
let the most experienced, confident, or dominant navigators walk at the
front of the group. I usually leave the navigation to them after telling
them the route for each stage and pointing out the waypoints.
I like to lead a walk from the middle of the group. While I'm happy to
let others navigate, I am very decisive about our objectives, route,
rest stops, regrouping, and speed. I regularly consult with the dominant
walkers, checking that we are en route with my map, compass and
occasionally the GPS if I need accurate confirmation to resolve
navigational conflicts.
On most walks I only get a GPS fix about 3 of 4 times a day, usually at
the refreshment stops because I leave the GPS in my rucksacks top pocket
and I have to take off the pack to get at the GPS.
I've noticed on many occasions that when the navigation gets really
tricky, and a mistake could mean a difficult climb, descent or missing a
water drop, even the most competent and cynical navigators like to
double check their navigation with my GPS!
Steve
David Springthorpe
>.....People who use paper maps and compass
>are never aware of all the issues of navigation and how complex it is.....
Arguably, you are in affect saying that using a GPS instead of paper
maps and a standard compass tends to sometimes complicates navigation
unnecessarily.....
D.S.
PeteM
> Arguably, you are in affect saying that using a GPS instead of paper
> maps and a standard compass tends to sometimes complicates navigation
> unnecessarily.....
I agree. I have gone into a sort of "information overload" state at times,
staring at that little screen while walking around in circles. Definitely a
possibility.
Actually good navigation is quite simple. It really means, stay awake,
observe your surroundings, and you will then generally have a fairly good
idea of where you are.... or at least how to get back.
Roy
idea of the complexities than GPS navigators?
I beg to differ, because in reality it's very simple to navigate via compass
and map, by observing surroundings, and, if necessary, the position of the
sun.
But then again my GPS is only there for backup rather than for primarily
navigation.
Roy
"Ben David" <ab...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:Qv819.514103$o66.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Ben David
walk with a map and compass.
Yes, I am suggesting that, the average bushwalker that navigates with map
and compass has very little knowledge to the other aspects of the science
and complexities of navigation.
--
"Roy" <x...@net.au> wrote in message news:3d46...@news1.idx.com.au...
Roy
We're talking about bushwalking on this newsgroup aren't we?
Surely, if we're getting into the deep and meaningfuls of GPS "mechanical
lessons" would we not go to "that other" newsgroup.
Happy walking
Roy
"Ben David" <ab...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:5Kv19.519302$o66.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Paul Davis
> are never aware of all the issues of navigation and how complex it is.
> Digital mapping and the software programs that go with them are a quantum
> leap from paper maps and compass.
I only know the basics of interplanetary navigation, but its never stopped
me finding the right mountain or canyon.
Paul
Trentus
It has worked along a trail at the base of a cliff with the other half of
the sky tree covered.
I believe the GPS unit *IS* worth buying. Though the new Sportrak pro has
even better reception under
tree cover. If you want good reception under REALLY HEAVY tree cover, get a
unit with
and external aerial socket, and put an external aerial on your acubra,
backpack, etc.
My Vista's map is pretty good, and about to get better by downloading new
maps into it when the Metroguide for
Australia is released. The maps are NOT topographic maps, and not suited to
bushwalking. You will still need a
paper map, and compass.
If you don't know where you are, but have a map, you are still likely to be
lost, or at least have a lot of
hassle finding where you are on the map by triangulating visible landmarks,
etc. Whereas with a GPS unit, you can be as lost as anything and still find
your position on the map VERY quickly.
If you want less biased opinions than Steve Walkers try
news:sci.geo.satellite-nav where you will find really
excellent advice on GPS units, by people who genuinely know what they are
talking about.
Trent Donohoo
"Johan Cruyff" <tl...@yahoo.comNOSPAMPLEASE> wrote in message
news:v3S09.507360$o66.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Trentus
best price in Australia
and his service advice is extensive. He really knows his stuff.
"Johan Cruyff" <tl...@yahoo.comNOSPAMPLEASE> wrote in message
news:I3819.513965$o66.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Ben David
--
"Trentus" <nospam...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:oNL19.49116$Hj3.1...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
Johan Cruyff
about what to buy.
"Trentus" <nospam...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:oNL19.49116$Hj3.1...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
Trevor Dennis
>There are a number of map possibilities. For example in NSW you can get
>raster 250 K maps for the whole state about $100. Also you can get topo
>maps for parts of the state. Sydney blue mountain etc is about $160. Both
>of these work with oziexplorer. You can put in your own tracks, way points
>etc.
Are there similar digital maps available for New Zealand? Is
there even a Microsoft type Autoroute product that covers NZ?
I have the UK AutoRoute 2001 which covers the UK to house level;
the rest of Europe to street level, and shows major cities for the
rest of the world.
--
Trevor Dennis
Remove s-p-a-m to email
Steve Reynolds
p-a-m.fsnet.co.uk says...
> I have the UK AutoRoute 2001 which covers the UK to house level;
> the rest of Europe to street level, and shows major cities for the
> rest of the world.
Maaate... That's nothing, I have the Australian AutoRoute 2002 which
covers Australia to the sock drawer level. I just feed in the colour of
my shirt and tie and it gives me the co-ordinates to the matching socks
:-)
Steve
Trevor Dennis
Wanna swap?
Allan Mikkelsen
> I use OziExplorer *extensively* on my desktop and WinCE iPaq. Would be
> awfully difficult to do my job so well without it.
>
> I load tracks, waypoints and routes to my GPS, as going through virgin
> country it is very necessary to ensure you are on track.
A very good idea if you cannot navigate properly with map and compass.
PeteM
> Are there similar digital maps available for New Zealand? Is
> there even a Microsoft type Autoroute product that covers NZ?
>
Try http://www.tumonz.co.nz
http://www.polymedia.co.nz/products.htm
for cd based products
or http://www.geographynetwork.co.nz/
for topo maps on line.