Clarification on knife laws in Victoria?
Jeff Mai
I'm an American who will be moving to Victoria (Melbourne,
specifically) in about five months. I do a lot of hiking here and
intend to do as much bushwalking as possible once I'm there. Well,
that is if the leech horror stories I've read in aus.bushwalking don't
put me off the idea, though I suppose the thought of running into a
bear (which is possible where I hike) is more alarming.
The point of the message is that I've recently lost the knife I carry
with me while hiking and need to replace it. The knife I'm thinking
of buying as replacement is a Gerber Applegate Covert folding tactical
knife. I have no attachment to the fact it's considered a tactical
knife, but it does have two useful features that are somewhat unique:
a) it folds
b) it locks up very securely and feels like a small fixed blade knife,
which I prefer
My concern is that it may not harmonize with legal restrictions or
that it may be confiscated as it passes through customs with my other
personal belongings. From what I've been able to find on the net, I
understand that I could not carry the knife without a purpose (which
in my case would be bushwalking, is this considered a legal purpose?)
This is not a problem; the knife is too large to be a "pocket-knife".
I wouldn't carry it even if it were legal. When I'm not out in the
bush, it will stay in my closet.
Are there other concerns? Could the knife be illegal to use in any
circumstance (even with excuse) because of some physical attribute
like size or operational features (or just looking scary) ? Is the
optional double bevel with false edge a no - no even if the second
edge is left unsharpened?
Any advice, recommendations, or better, a web site containing the
specifics of the laws pertaining to this matter is most appreciated.
Thanks!
Sirion
knife blade retracts into the body and can be released by a button and it
shoots straight out are banned.
The normal law abiding people do not have any problems, it is those that get
picked up in the street and cause problems. I am sure you know the sort of
thing I am referring to.
When travelling by air, make sure you put the knife in the case going in the
plane hold. They are getting very security conscious lately with any type of
thing that can be considered a weapon carried in hand luggage.
Depends where you are where there are leeches. There are many things much
worse than a few leeches. If leeches were your only worry then you would
have none.
--
"Jeff Mai" <jeff...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:66dc90a8.01071...@posting.google.com...
> Hello,
>
> I'm an American who will be moving to Victoria (Melbourne,
> specifically) in about five months. I do a lot of hiking here and
> intend to do as much bushwalking as possible once I'm there. Well,
> that is if the leech horror stories I've read in aus.bushwalking don't
> put me off the idea, though I suppose the thought of running into a
> bear (which is possible where I hike) is more alarming.
>
> The point of the message is that I've recently lost the knife I carry
> with me while hiking and need to replace it. The knife I'm thinking
> of buying as replacement is a Gerber Applegate Covert folding tactical
> knife. I have no attachment to the fact it's considered a tactical
> knife, but it does have two useful features that are somewhat unique:
>
> a) it folds
> b) it locks up very securely and feels like a small fixed blade knife,
> which I prefer
>
<snipped>
Jim (from Oz)
>I'm an American who will be moving to Victoria (Melbourne,
>specifically) in about five months. I do a lot of hiking here and
>intend to do as much bushwalking as possible once I'm there. Well,
>that is if the leech horror stories I've read in aus.bushwalking don't
>put me off the idea, though I suppose the thought of running into a
>bear (which is possible where I hike) is more alarming.
Ha! We've got some pretty mean leeches here mate! :)
As long as you stay in Vic you'll be fine but up in the Top End
we have a few crocs. who'd give you a bit of a tickle. Not to mention
we have 18 of the worlds 21 deadliest snakes. And the bloody
Drop Bears! Well....
>The point of the message is that I've recently lost the knife I carry
>with me while hiking and need to replace it.
snipped stuff about carrying a lock knife in Oz.
Knives are an area where the police (usually) exercise common
sense and it all really depends of where and why you're carrying
it. A lock knife on a bush walk is fine, the same knife in Safeway?
I'd prefer not to be the one arguing that point.
Your knife will pass customs without any problems. Flick knives
and butterfly knives excepted we don't have much in the way of
import restrictions on knives. btw Mace, ANY firearms, Tasers
etc are restricted imports.
Having said the above, knife laws in Vic. were tightened up about
a year ago, mainly to prevent thugs carrying and using craft knives
on the street. I am not up to speed on the current knife laws so you
may wish to check:
http://www.dms.dpc.vic.gov.au/
Remember this is Vic law only. Commonwealth law governs
imports.
Enjoy Oz, it's a great country (I used to be a Pom) I wouldn't live
anywhere else in the world. (Well maybe a little island I know
off southern Thailand :) ).
Jim (from Oz)
John McLaine
"Jeff Mai" wrote:
>Gerber Applegate Covert folding tactical knife. >
> Are there other concerns?
http://www.uws.com/Blades_GERBER_Applegate.html
Jeff,
I've no wish to question your desire for such a big brutal knife, and no
idea if it would be considered an illegal weapon in Aus, but I can tell you
that Australian bushwalkers in general don't have a culture of carrying big
knives. Your question would be better directed at our hunters and fishermen.
Maybe someone here can help you.
A lot of the regulars on aus.bushwalking would consider that knife
"overkill" for bushwalking. It will certainly un-nerve many bushwalkers if
you whip it out to slice your tomato at a communal campsite. I carry a
Victorinox knife with a 33mm blade. That's a little over an inch and a
quarter long. I can't think of a bushwalking circumstance where I would need
the weight of a bigger knife.
Why don't you wait till you get here, do some bushwalking with a smaller
basic knife, then buy the weapon only if you feel you really need it?
Cheers,
John
John Retchford
You ask for advice about bringing a "covert tactical" knife for
bushwalking in Victoria. My advice is "don't". Things like this have no
possible legitimate use in Australian bushwalking. A small pocket knife
is useful, but an agressive weapon such as you describe would make other
people (Police?) immediately suspicious of your motives. It would also
reinforce the notion held by most of the world's citizens that pople from
the USA are obsessed with weapons. I assume you are from the USA and not
one of the other American countries.
Victorian bushwalkers are mostly gentle, peaceful souls with a love of
natural places and a spirit of adventure. As a life-long Melbourne based
walker I have yet to see a weapon-toting bushwalker. I would like to keep
it that way. Legal or not (an I doubt that it is), please leave covert,
tactical, double-edged weapons, and the motivation to carry them, behind.
You may then have some chance of fitting in with Melbourne bushwalkers.
John Retchford
Jeff Mai wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm an American who will be moving to Victoria (Melbourne,
> specifically) in about five months. I do a lot of hiking here and
> intend to do as much bushwalking as possible once I'm there.
>
> The point of the message is that I've recently lost the knife I carry
> with me while hiking and need to replace it. The knife I'm thinking
> of buying as replacement is a Gerber Applegate Covert folding tactical
> knife. I have no attachment to the fact it's considered a tactical
> knife, but it does have two useful features that are somewhat unique:
> Snip
> My concern is that it may not harmonize with legal restrictions or
> that it may be confiscated as it passes through customs with my other
> personal belongings.
>
Brian W Edginton
wrote:
Just one thing on imports, Fed Customs have some funny rules.....I had
a double-edged dagger confiscated in the mail a while back. The story
was that I needed a letter from my State Police Commissioner to have
it released.....didn't bother as they were holding some other more
valuable stuff until I convinced them the dagger was legal in NSW.
A dealer in Qld reported on rec.knives that he had to front Customs to
have some folders released as the bureaucrats regarded them as not
having any purpose other than as weapons.....from memory, they were
standard Spyderco folders.
I think the way it works is that, if Customs feel that one or more of
the States MIGHT regard a knife as illegal, the onus is on the
addressee to prove it is ok in their state.
Another poster said that, in his state (forget which one), one-handers
are not legal. Might be worthwhile enquiring at the Consulate to check
on the Covert. The fact that it LOOKS like a weapon and is advertised
in the US as one might be a problem.
Someone from Vic might be able to give you a contact for a reputable
dealer.....they, usually, are up to speed on these things.
brianWE
I live and learn. Mostly, though, I just live.
Brian W Edginton
wrote:
More information on Aus knife imports.....
Have a look at
http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/disp.pl/au/legis/cth/consol%5freg/cir1956432/xx2.html?query=%7e+knive
I don't see anything to make your Covert illegal as an import.
Certainly dangerous to carry in a public place, though. Better to
carry some sort of "traditional" slip-joint pocket knife. Unless you
are in the "target groups"......leave your "Crips" gear at home....you
are unlikely to be bothered by cops, anyway.
But, they may use bluff at Customs......maybe you should reprint the
page above?
Have a good stay.
Zebee Johnstone
John Retchford <John.Re...@dsto.defence.gov.au> wrote:
>Jeff,
>
>You ask for advice about bringing a "covert tactical" knife for
>bushwalking in Victoria. My advice is "don't". Things like this have no
>possible legitimate use in Australian bushwalking. A small pocket knife
About the only use I can see is to cut wood for a fire, but fires are
dangerous things, and I thnk most Aussie bushwalkers would not
deliberately light them but would carry a fuel stove.
Zebee
Jim (from Oz)
<ed...@dingoblue.net.au> wrote:
>On Tue, 17 Jul 2001 22:41:59 GMT, ji...@impaq.com.au (Jim (from Oz))
>wrote:
>
>
>More information on Aus knife imports.....
>Have a look at
>http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/disp.pl/au/legis/cth/consol%5freg/cir1956432/xx2.html?query=%7e+knive
Interesting, I bought item 12, which was cleverly disguised as a
cattle prod, about 4 years ago from a farm suppliers in Dandenong.
I believe item 10 (elec. dog collar) is also widely available.
However I am a little dissapointed that I will not be able to
bring item 8(vii) back from my next overseas trip.
And you're a bunch of wousers(sp?) the knife he mentioned
has a 4 inch blade, that's a good blade length for a general
purpose knife. The double edged blade has a useful serated
edge as well as the normal cutting edge. And double edge
bladed are no good for fighting - they get stuck in the ribs
during a strike.
Jim (from Oz)
Luke Webber
news:3b54d927...@news.mel.ip.net.au...
> And you're a bunch of wousers(sp?) the knife he mentioned
> has a 4 inch blade, that's a good blade length for a general
> purpose knife. The double edged blade has a useful serated
> edge as well as the normal cutting edge. And double edge
> bladed are no good for fighting - they get stuck in the ribs
> during a strike.
Then why do the SAS use them? I'm not disputing your facts, because I
honestly wouldn't know. Just asking from interest.
Luke
Brian W Edginton
wrote:
>On Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:07:56 +1000, Brian W Edginton
><ed...@dingoblue.net.au> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 17 Jul 2001 22:41:59 GMT, ji...@impaq.com.au (Jim (from Oz))
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>More information on Aus knife imports.....
>>Have a look at
>>http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/disp.pl/au/legis/cth/consol%5freg/cir1956432/xx2.html?query=%7e+knive
>
>Interesting, I bought item 12, which was cleverly disguised as a
>cattle prod, about 4 years ago from a farm suppliers in Dandenong.
>
>I believe item 10 (elec. dog collar) is also widely available.
>
>However I am a little dissapointed that I will not be able to
>bring item 8(vii) back from my next overseas trip.
>
>And you're a bunch of wousers(sp?) the knife he mentioned
>has a 4 inch blade, that's a good blade length for a general
>purpose knife. The double edged blade has a useful serated
>edge as well as the normal cutting edge. And double edge
>bladed are no good for fighting - they get stuck in the ribs
>during a strike.
>
>Jim (from Oz)
Jim
Actually, I think that their use of the word "prohibited" is a bit
sloppy applied to some of the items (maybe the dog collar is
one).....my experience with a double-edged dagger suggests
"restricted" would be a better one in those cases. I COULD have
applied for a Police certificate and, if it was provided, I could have
received the knife. Certainly indicates that it is more "restricted"
than "prohibited".
And I agree with the "wowser" thing. The Covert is a fine using knife
with lots of utility potential. Anyone who goes into a potential
survival situation without a decent knife is foolish. My preference,
though, would be a decent fixed blade with a minimum of a 5 inch
blade. I think we saw a little hoplophobia there :)
Trevor G. Ropes
wrote:
>About the only use I can see is to cut wood for a fire,
Also, any wood for a fire would normally be gathered (and broken to
suitable size), rather than cut.
> but fires are
>dangerous things, and I thnk most Aussie bushwalkers would not
>deliberately light them but would carry a fuel stove.
An overgeneralisation - fires are still popular according to area and
time of year, and there are stilll lots of bushwalkers who simply do
not yet carry stoves, at least for weekend trips.
Trevor.
Rod Speed
Jeff Mai <jeff...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:66dc90a8.01071...@posting.google.com...
> I'm an American who will be moving to Victoria (Melbourne,
> specifically) in about five months. I do a lot of hiking here and
> intend to do as much bushwalking as possible once I'm there.
> Well, that is if the leech horror stories I've read in aus.bushwalking
> don't put me off the idea, though I suppose the thought of running
> into a bear (which is possible where I hike) is more alarming.
You aint seen our drop bears...
> The point of the message is that I've recently lost the knife I carry with
> me while hiking and need to replace it. The knife I'm thinking of buying
> as replacement is a Gerber Applegate Covert folding tactical knife.
> I have no attachment to the fact it's considered a tactical knife,
> but it does have two useful features that are somewhat unique:
> a) it folds
> b) it locks up very securely and feels like
> a small fixed blade knife, which I prefer
It does appear to qualify as a 'flick knife'
> My concern is that it may not harmonize with legal
> restrictions or that it may be confiscated as it passes
> through customs with my other personal belongings.
> From what I've been able to find on the net, I understand that
> I could not carry the knife without a purpose (which in my case
> would be bushwalking, is this considered a legal purpose?)
Thats really just there so they can shaft you if they
search you in the street and find that on you there.
> This is not a problem; the knife is too large to be a
> "pocket-knife". I wouldn't carry it even if it were legal.
> When I'm not out in the bush, it will stay in my closet.
Should be ok in that regard, you're unlikely to say
run across some over zealous cop also bushwalking,
who might try to big note himself on that.
Its possible tho, just very unlikely.
> Are there other concerns?
The other bushwalkers may consider you are a bit of a psycho.
> Could the knife be illegal to use in any circumstance
> (even with excuse) because of some physical attribute
> like size or operational features (or just looking scary) ?
Yes, it does appear to qualify as a 'flick knife'
"Flick knife", being a knife designed or adapted so that the blade
is concealed when folded or recessed into the handle and which
opens by gravity or centrifugal force or by any pressure applied to
a button, spring or device in or attached to the handle of the knife.
Probably qualifys under
"Dagger", being a sharp pointed stabbing instrument (other than an oyster
knife), ordinarily capable of being concealed on the person and having--
(a) a flat blade with cutting edges (whether serrated
or not serrated) along the length of both sides; or
(b) a needle-like blade, the cross section of which is elliptical or has 3 or
more sides, but not including instruments such as swords or bayonets.
Hard to see how a 'tactical' knife couldnt be a 'dagger'
Those are from the Victorian legislation.
The federal customs regulations say
Knives of the kind known as flick-knives, including any knives the
blades of which can be folded or recessed into the handles and,
when so folded or recessed, can be made, by the moving of buttons
or levers, to spring open fully and be locked in the open position
It certainly qualifys as a flick knife under that definition too.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/disp.pl/au/legis/cth/consol%5freg/cir1956432/xx2.html?query=%22flick%22
> Is the optional double bevel with false edge a no
> - no even if the second edge is left unsharpened?
Doesnt appear to be good enough, the 'flick knife' definition
is silent on that and its isnt vital for a 'dagger' either.
> Any advice, recommendations, or better, a web site containing the
> specifics of the laws pertaining to this matter is most appreciated.
http://www.dms.dpc.vic.gov.au/sb/2000_SR/S01368.html
covers the Victorian law, obviously only relevant
if you can get it past customs in the first place.
Rod Speed
Sirion <minin...@paradise.com> wrote in message
news:Gd257.93287$Rr4.3...@ozemail.com.au...
> Jeff you will not have any problems whatsoever. 'Flick' knives,
> or where the knife blade retracts into the body and can be
> released by a button and it shoots straight out are banned.
The legislation says nothing about 'shoots straight out'
It appears to qualify as a flick knife and a 'dagger'
> The normal law abiding people do not have any problems,
> it is those that get picked up in the street and cause problems.
> I am sure you know the sort of thing I am referring to.
> When travelling by air, make sure you put the knife in the case going in
> the plane hold. They are getting very security conscious lately with any
> type of thing that can be considered a weapon carried in hand luggage.
> Depends where you are where there are leeches. There
> are many things much worse than a few leeches. If leeches
> were your only worry then you would have none.
Jeff Mai
In retrospect, I see this particular knife is a bad choice for my
purposes, not because of utility, but because of people's reactions to
it's appearance. I guess here in the land of endless 4WD vehicles with
full gunracks I wasn't aware of the stir a li'l ol' knife can cause.
I'll wait until I'm there to pick out a suitable knife.
Thanks again!
Jeff
PS - Is there an FAQ on how to cut up a 125mm apple with a 33mm knife
blade?
Trevor G. Ropes
>Hello,
>
>I'm an American
Who has seen "Crocodile Dundee 1" and thinks we all carry big knives
in Aussi ?
Trevor.
Brian W Edginton
Get real, Trevor.....the Covert is NOT a big knife.
It is a decent sized pocket folder that will do heaps more work than a
dinky keychain knife. I have folders that make it positively wimpish.
If you are happy to be lost in the bush with nothing more than a Swiss
Army Knife to build a shelter and to keep you alive until the chopper
gets there, go for it. Just don't dump on people who would rather be a
bit more prepared.
Personally, a big knife that one can carry comfortably is....well...a
comfort. Minimalists die all the time because their egos killed them
.
Dave Hayes
Who needs an massive knife for normal bushwalking? Put some muscle in and
break those sticks you want for your fire.
I carry the basic swiss army knife... used for cutting the occasional rope
or as a backup for my food knife. I really can't see the logic in carrying
a crocodile dundee knife which is for one - heavy, and secondly is only
required to impress peers. The comments about requiring a knife to fend off
hungry bears (*grin*) at interesting to say the least... I'd love to see a
demo.
Anyway, I think you could invest your money (much more efficently) in a
small lightweight knife which has all the fun trinkets we love (and use) -
screwdriver, bottle opener, can opener and the like.
~dave~
--
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Dave Hayes: dha...@optushome.com.au
http://members.optushome.com.au/dhayes/
John McLaine <jmcl...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:3b54...@news.iprimus.com.au...
Brian W Edginton
<dha...@optushome.com.au> wrote:
>As a lot of others have said...
>
>Who needs an massive knife for normal bushwalking? Put some muscle in and
>break those sticks you want for your fire.
>
>I carry the basic swiss army knife... used for cutting the occasional rope
>or as a backup for my food knife. I really can't see the logic in carrying
>a crocodile dundee knife which is for one - heavy, and secondly is only
>required to impress peers. The comments about requiring a knife to fend off
>hungry bears (*grin*) at interesting to say the least... I'd love to see a
>demo.
>
>Anyway, I think you could invest your money (much more efficently) in a
>small lightweight knife which has all the fun trinkets we love (and use) -
>screwdriver, bottle opener, can opener and the like.
>
>~dave~
Geez, Dave....who ever mentioned a need for "massive" knives?
Or, even, a "Dundee knife" as a bushwalking knife?
By all means, enjoy your "trinkets".....fun to play with around the
campfire, eh?
And, by all means, get rid of that heavy waterbottles. Just slows down
a day-walker's progress. And there will, always, be a clean water
supply just down the track.
Out of curiosity, what's the screwdriver for? Or, for that matter,
the bottle opener? Do you carry a slab with you? Suggestion : get
stubbies with twist-tops. Then you can leave the bottle-opener at
home. And, if you carry dried foods, you can dump the can-opener, too.
Canned food is pretty bloody bulky.
And rope? Tried to sever a decent lump of rope with an SAK?
I have....takes a while. And your average SAK is only going to do it
once without serious edge maintenance.
Good walking
Jim (from Oz)
wrote:
The military use a number of different knives, I'll check but I don't
think the SAS still use the tradional "Commando dagger" knife.
The military doesn't want to get into knife fights, it just wants to
kill people so a double edge knife may be better when you're
attacking someone from behind, probably in the dark. In that
case you won't be going via the ribs.
Jim (from Oz)
Trevor Calder
> >Gerber Applegate Covert folding tactical knife. >
> http://www.uws.com/Blades_GERBER_Applegate.html
> I've no wish to question your desire for such a big brutal knife,
Big? With a blade just over 3 1/4 inches? That's about the same length
as my finger.
>and no
> idea if it would be considered an illegal weapon in Aus,
If it was used as a weapon, of course it would be illegal - or am I
missing something here?
> A lot of the regulars on aus.bushwalking would consider that knife
> "overkill" for bushwalking. It will certainly un-nerve many bushwalkers if
> you whip it out to slice your tomato at a communal campsite. I carry a
> Victorinox knife with a 33mm blade. That's a little over an inch and a
> quarter long.
Having tried in the past to slice tomatoes with a short bladed knife,
it isn't easy. Nowadays I use something with a blade size that makes
it simple.
What do you use to slice tomatoes at home - and why wouldn't you use
the same thing away from home?
>I can't think of a bushwalking circumstance where I would need
> the weight of a bigger knife.
The website you quoted doesn't have the weight of the smaller one, but
the bigger knife is only just over 150g - six ounces or a bit less.
What weight?
> Why don't you wait till you get here, do some bushwalking with a smaller
> basic knife, then buy the weapon only if you feel you really need it?
I didn't think he wanted a weapon, I thought he was asking about a
knife.
trevor
John McLaine
"Brian wrote :
> If you are happy to be lost in the bush with nothing more than a Swiss
> Army Knife to build a shelter and to keep you alive until the chopper
> gets there, go for it. Just don't dump on people who would rather be a
> bit more prepared.
> Personally, a big knife that one can carry comfortably is....well...a
> comfort. Minimalists die all the time because their egos killed them
Brian,
Interesting point, but at some variance with my thoughts. I'm at risk of
falling into your ego-minimalist category. Hope I don't die for lack of a
big knife.
I agree that one should be a bit more prepared than just carrying a Swiss
Army Knife, but to me that doesn't mean carry a bigger knife. It means carry
a range of things, and know how to use them. Maybe the size of one's knife
is inversely proportional to the size of their ego.
You write about building a shelter. While you're cutting shingles, I'm
ensconced in either my tent for overnighters, or goretex/tyvek
suit/reflective blanket if ever benighted on a day trip. Never been
accidentally benighted, but have occasionally deliberately bivied w/out
tent/sleeping bag. I can't imagine standing around in cold rain in deep
forest, carving a shelter with my Applegate. I'd reckon I stuffed up
somewhere.
About cutting ropes, what rope do you need for bushwalking, maybe a bit of
8mm for pack hauling? When I do outdoor sports which are more technical, ie
climbing, kayaking, sailing, etc., I certainly carry a more powerful knife
in case I need to cut webbing or rope quickly, but why bother for
bushwalking?
I think the Gerber Applegate Covert folding tactical combat knife would be
brilliant for spreading vegemite on my vita-wheats, but I also think it's
way overkill for bushwalking. If I over-specify every item in my rucsac, It
will be too heavy to pick up and carry.
I don't mean to sound too argumentative. I respect your opinion, just
thought I'd offer some comments from an ego-minimalist's point of view.
Regards,
John
Luke Webber
news:5n757.756$t9....@news1.belrs1.nsw.optushome.com.au...
> As a lot of others have said...
>
> Who needs an massive knife for normal bushwalking? Put some muscle in and
> break those sticks you want for your fire.
>
> I carry the basic swiss army knife... used for cutting the occasional rope
> or as a backup for my food knife. I really can't see the logic in
carrying
> a crocodile dundee knife which is for one - heavy, and secondly is only
> required to impress peers. The comments about requiring a knife to fend
off
> hungry bears (*grin*) at interesting to say the least... I'd love to see a
> demo.
Ah now, gimme one of them there knives and I'll just slip into something a
little less comfortable and show y'all a thing or three. Check this baby
out...
http://www.outsidemag.com/magazine/0597/0597grizzlies.html
That'd do it, alright. <g>
Luke
Luke Webber
Possibly true, but doesn't that then mean that they're OK for fighting, just
as long as you don't jam 'em into somebody's rib cage? And if you *do*
happen to jam one in somebody's rib cage, isn't it likely that the fight is
over, and you're the probable winner? <g>
Luke
Brian W Edginton
<jmcl...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
>
>"Brian wrote :
>
>> If you are happy to be lost in the bush with nothing more than a Swiss
>> Army Knife to build a shelter and to keep you alive until the chopper
>> gets there, go for it. Just don't dump on people who would rather be a
>> bit more prepared.
>> Personally, a big knife that one can carry comfortably is....well...a
>> comfort. Minimalists die all the time because their egos killed them
>
>Brian,
>
>Interesting point, but at some variance with my thoughts. I'm at risk of
>falling into your ego-minimalist category. Hope I don't die for lack of a
>big knife.
>I agree that one should be a bit more prepared than just carrying a Swiss
>Army Knife, but to me that doesn't mean carry a bigger knife. It means carry
>a range of things, and know how to use them. Maybe the size of one's knife
>is inversely proportional to the size of their ego.
Or their desire to survive?
>
>You write about building a shelter. While you're cutting shingles, I'm
>ensconced in either my tent for overnighters, or goretex/tyvek
>suit/reflective blanket if ever benighted on a day trip. Never been
>accidentally benighted, but have occasionally deliberately bivied w/out
>tent/sleeping bag. I can't imagine standing around in cold rain in deep
>forest, carving a shelter with my Applegate. I'd reckon I stuffed up
>somewhere.
Actually, shingles never entered my head.....was thinking about
branches and stuff on day # 3 or 4 ....after you have dumped all of
your factory stuff because it was getting too much to carry as you
became weaker from lack of food and ,maybe, water. It is amazing how
many dead bodies are found at the end of a trail of discarded gear.
A situation that NO ONE gets into unless they "stuffed up somewhere".
Shit happens.
The "shingles" thing was a put down, right?
>
>About cutting ropes, what rope do you need for bushwalking, maybe a bit of
>8mm for pack hauling? When I do outdoor sports which are more technical, ie
>climbing, kayaking, sailing, etc., I certainly carry a more powerful knife
>in case I need to cut webbing or rope quickly, but why bother for
>bushwalking?
Actually, I queried the rope thing, too......wasn't my idea.
>
>I think the Gerber Applegate Covert folding tactical combat knife would be
>brilliant for spreading vegemite on my vita-wheats, but I also think it's
>way overkill for bushwalking. If I over-specify every item in my rucsac, It
>will be too heavy to pick up and carry.
Vegemite and crackers are gone....chopper can't find you......worse,
butter is gone, too. Or ,worse still...no bloody
coffee.....aaarrrggghhh!
>
>I don't mean to sound too argumentative. I respect your opinion, just
>thought I'd offer some comments from an ego-minimalist's point of view.
>
>Regards,
>
>John
>
>
BTW, I am not advovating a LARGE knife. Although I do favour a decent
fixed blade with a cutting edge of about 5 inches. Only a couple of
inches longer than your SAK.....and a whole lot stronger. Break the
bugger and you are toothless, so to speak.
Also, I don't agree that whatsisname's Covert was a great bushwalker's
knife......just a better one than a SAK or keyring knife.
Me? A good 5-6 inch fixed blade AND my Leatherman Wave. All the great
trinkets to get me through a night bullshitting around a campfire. The
pliers, saw and file on the Wave are gonna be a big help when the
chips are down. The Fixed blade will do the heavy stuffwhere I can't
afford a broken blade.
Can't happen to me? Well, not unless I go out into the bush. I wish
more people would think a bit ahead......would save the volunteer
rescuers putting their lives on the line so often.
brianWE
The above information is supplied for entertainment purposes only.
No responsibility is accepted by the author for inconvenience incurred
by any reader silly enough to act on unsubstantiated Usenet advice.
Sirion
Now, how about gun laws if you could generate that much traffic with
knives!!!
I am impressed, keep it going.
Trevor G. Ropes
wrote:
>The military doesn't want to get into knife fights, it just wants to
>kill people so a double edge knife may be better when you're
>attacking someone from behind, probably in the dark. In that
>case you won't be going via the ribs.
Gee, hope I don't meet any of them in the bush.
Trevor.
Roger Caffin
> Thanks everyone for the helpful advice on the knife laws in Victoria.
> In retrospect, I see this particular knife is a bad choice for my
> purposes, not because of utility, but because of people's reactions to
> it's appearance. I guess here in the land of endless 4WD vehicles with
> full gunracks I wasn't aware of the stir a li'l ol' knife can cause.
> I'll wait until I'm there to pick out a suitable knife.
These days, even on our long wilderness trips, all I carry is a small
SAK (lightest possible), a butter knife from one of those Boy Scout
cutlery sets and a scalpel blade (no handle) in the first aid kit.
(Actually, those Sheffield knifes have good steel in them.) The butter
knife gets used for buttering every day. The SAK rarely sees light of
day. Its most common use is getting a splinter out. I could easily
leave it behind and use the scalpel.
Hypothetical survival situations are great for waffle, but how many
people ever have them? Most of us focus our energy on not getting into
them - successfully. For instance, the majority of accidents with
snakes etc in Australia occur because the person attacked the snake.
> PS - Is there an FAQ on how to cut up a 125mm apple with a 33mm knife
> blade?
Yes, here:
Slice around apple with 30mm penetration. Put knife away safely. Take
apple in two hands and twist. Bingo: apple in two neat halves.
NB: the cutting is optional: some people can do it without cutting.
As for cutting a climbing rope with an SAK: very easy if you have kept
it sharp, and it does NOT damage the steel. Just put the rope under
some tension or make a bend around something. You will find the nylon
cuts very easily. Come on: steel vs plastic? Assuming you have a need
to do such a wasteful thing in the first place!
You may find bushwalking in Australia a relaxing experience. We hope
you enjoy your stay.
Cheers
Roger Caffin
Roger Caffin
> Out of curiosity, what's the screwdriver for?
Cheers
Roger Caffin
PS: the snow is building up nicely... skis all waxed.
Trevor Calder
<3b55...@news.iprimus.com.au> to spread these words:
>"Jeff Mai" wrote> Thanks again!
>> PS - Is there an FAQ on how to cut up a 125mm apple with a 33mm knif
>e
>> blade?
>I wondered if you'd pick me up on that! It's the only drawback of havi
>ng a
>tiny knife.
So carry a bigger one. It makes lots of things easier.
>Anyway, 125mm is a whopper of an apple. All apples that size are
>individually wrapped in celophane, styrofoam and cardboard, and air
>freighted to Japan.
Are they, bigod? I must drop in at the local supermarket and tell
them they're doing it all wrong:-)
--
Trevor Calder
"..it is foolishness and endless trouble to cast a
stone at every dog that barks at you.."
Trevor Calder
to spread these words:
>As for cutting a climbing rope with an SAK: very easy if you have kept
>it sharp, and it does NOT damage the steel.
You managed to sharpen a SAK? More than I have - I'm impressed!
Luke Maslen
jeff...@hotmail.com (Jeff Mai) wrote:
>Any advice, recommendations, or better, a web site containing the
>specifics of the laws pertaining to this matter is most appreciated.
Hi Jeff,
Judging from the number of replies, it is just as well that you didn't
ask if you could bring a personal missile defence shield with you ;)
Here is some info that seem pertinent:
--------------------------------
<http://www.customs.gov.au/travel/text/in1.htm#i4>
Items you must declare on arrival
Firearms, weapons and ammunition
Firearms (including soft air pistols) and ammunition and weapons
including: blowpipes, daggers, nunchukas, slingshots, flick- knives,
pistol crossbows, knuckle dusters, replicas - but does not include items
designed as children's toys.
May be prohibited or require a permit and safety testing to import them.
Contact Customs before you travel for information. Check with your
airline for advice on packaging before you travel with dangerous goods.
Customs Information Line
Call: 1300 363 263
(Australia only)
+61 2 6275 6666
(Outside Australia)
--------------------------------
Your knife might or might not be classified as a weapon. Switch-blades
certainly are illegal in Australia. It would be a good idea to contact
Australian Customs Service and have your knife classified if you are in
any doubt <mailto:infor...@customs.gov.au>.
Regards,
Luke Maslen.
Steve Reynolds
wrote:
>PS - Is there an FAQ on how to cut up a 125mm apple with a 33mm knife
>blade?
Not in Oz, we mostly just use our teeth :-)
SR
Jamieson
And, surprise, surprise, David Springthorpe wasn't among them.
This might encourage him to renew a DV thread or 2, or 3.
Roy
"Luke Maslen" <luke....@pobox.com.au> wrote in message
news:luke.maslen-2A7E...@otis.netspace.net.au...
John McLaine
"Brian wrote:
> >
> >"Brian wrote :
> >
> >I agree that one should be a bit more prepared than just carrying a Swiss
> >Army Knife, but to me that doesn't mean carry a bigger knife. It means
carry
> >a range of things, and know how to use them. Maybe the size of one's
knife
> >is inversely proportional to the size of their ego.
>
> Or their desire to survive?
Huh???? I do not get this. What "survival" assistance can you get from your
125mm blade that I can't from my 33mm blade. Cutting sticks? Wrestling
crocodiles? Cutting splints perhaps? I'd rather unroll the SAM splint from
my first aid kit. Takes seconds.
> The "shingles" thing was a put down, right?
No, It was an exaggeration, but definitely not a put-down. We have a
difference of opinion, but my intention as always, is to keep the discussion
respectful. BTW our difference of opinion is only about what knife is needed
for bushwalking. Not about Jeff's right to choose his preferred knife.
I'll go along with your scenario:
Vegemite and crackers are gone....chopper can't find you......worse,
> butter is gone, too. Or ,worse still...no bloody
> coffee.....aaarrrggghhh!
So; I whip out the 5" knife, then.................what??????????????
> BTW, I am not advovating a LARGE knife. Although I do favour a decent
> fixed blade with a cutting edge of about 5 inches. Only a couple of
> inches longer than your SAK.
Mine was the 33mm one. It's tiny. It's all I need.
>....and a whole lot stronger. Break the bugger
On what? Salami? What are you doing with your knife to put enough torsion on
it to risk breakage?
> Me? A good 5-6 inch fixed blade AND my Leatherman Wave.
My leatherman stays in the glove box. It's a great tool. I don't need it on
bushwalks.
> The pliers, saw and file on the Wave are gonna be a big help when the
> chips are down. The Fixed blade will do the heavy stuffwhere I can't
> afford a broken blade. Can't happen to me? Well, not unless I go out into
the bush.
I'll concede that I may get injured. I can't see how the 5" knife will save
my life.
>I wish more people would think a bit ahead......would save the volunteer
> rescuers putting their lives on the line so often.
Is this a put-down? I'd better tell everyone on my search call out list to
upgrade their knifes.
I believe if you "think a bit ahead", you won't need a big knife.
So you see, 'think ahead" doesn't really tell much about knife size, does
it?
Before the big knife afficionados get cranky, I stress: carry whatever knife
you want. But I maintain that a small knife is sufficient for bushwalking.
John
Dave Hayes
> > A situation that NO ONE gets into unless they "stuffed up somewhere".
>
> You've certainly done that if you choose to dump valuable survival gear
like a
> tent or sleeping bag, in favour of a gung ho knife and a bit of walking
about to
> find your way out.
hehehe.. *grin*.
~dave~
John McLaine
"Trevor wrote
> Big? With a blade just over 3 1/4 inches? That's about the same length
> as my finger.
My mistake. I apologise. I was looking at the wrong model spec: Blade
Length: 11.43 cm.
> Having tried in the past to slice tomatoes with a short bladed knife,
> it isn't easy.
I concede that point. In the bush I usually take cherry tomatoes - no need
to slice.
> What do you use to slice tomatoes at home
Wusthof Trident 20cm Chef's knife.
>- and why wouldn't you use the same thing away from home?
Weight.
> The website you quoted doesn't have the weight of the smaller one, but
> the bigger knife is only just over 150g - six ounces or a bit less.
As above, my mistake, I was looking at the bigger one's spec.
>What weight?
If I look after the grams, the kilograms will look after themselves.
>> then buy the weapon only if you feel you really need it?
> I didn't think he wanted a weapon, I thought he was asking about a
> knife.
I'm sure Jeff's intentions are honourable, but it was designed and is sold
as a weapon.
John
Rod Speed
> I'll concede that I may get injured. I can't
> see how the 5" knife will save my life.
Its for when all the food runs out and you need
to start eating the other bushwalkers, silly.
>> I wish more people would think a bit ahead......would save
>> the volunteer rescuers putting their lives on the line so often.
> Is this a put-down? I'd better tell everyone on
> my search call out list to upgrade their knifes.
> I believe if you "think a bit ahead", you won't need a big knife.
Cant see you need one even without thinking
ahead either. A small one used for food is plenty.
Sure, some may prefer something a bit
bigger that is so convenient to fold etc.
And yes, thats now been caught by the rather stupid knife laws.
Just like handguns have when there may be crocs around etc.
> Before the big knife afficionados get cranky, I stress: carry whatever knife
> you want. But I maintain that a small knife is sufficient for bushwalking.
Sure.
Jim (from Oz)
<jmcl...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
>> I didn't think he wanted a weapon, I thought he was asking about a
>> knife.
>
>I'm sure Jeff's intentions are honourable, but it was designed and is sold
>as a weapon.
To turn that argument around: It is no defence if charged with
using a kitchen knife to commit murder to argue that it _isn't_
designed and sold as a weapon.
To better understand the uses a decent knife can be put to
in Australian conditions you may wish to check out the book
Australian Bush Survival Skills by Kevin Casey,
Kimberley Publications in Brisbane. It's a newish book
written within the last 2 or 3 years. If memory serves he
considers a good knife (and I think he suggests a lock knife
with a 3 to 4" blade) is the single most valuable tool
to have in this situation, and having read his book I really
do think he can be considered pretty knowledgeable in
this area.
Of course if you're sure that you'll never get into a survival
situation while bushwalking then you won't need one, will you?
Jim (from Oz)
David Killick
We haven't heard from David for a while. I wonder whether we should be
worried.
Perhaps he's blundered into a survival situation without the requisite
length of finely-honed rib-sticking cold steel. Personally, I carry a
14-inch saw-toothed German trench bayonet, not only on bushwalks, but
everywhere I go. You never know when a survial situation is going to crop
up.
cheers,
David.
"Jamieson" <roy...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:vTn57.94191$Rr4.3...@ozemail.com.au...
Dave Hayes
> Perhaps he's blundered into a survival situation without the requisite
> length of finely-honed rib-sticking cold steel. Personally, I carry a
> 14-inch saw-toothed German trench bayonet, not only on bushwalks, but
> everywhere I go. You never know when a survial situation is going to crop
> up.
>
>cheers,
>
>David.
hahahahaha :) why not a chain saw? I'm sure you could build a sufficent
shelter should you encounter a survival situtation - complete with balcony
and spa.
other dave.
Trevor G. Ropes
<minin...@paradise.com> wrote:
>WOW all about a damn knife import. Normally this NG is dead quiet.
The obvious question arises - what s the best knife to use to cut up a
pair of DUNLOP VOLLEYS (pathetic attempt to start a DV thread !) ?
>Now, how about gun laws if you could generate that much traffic with
>knives!!!
I'm shooting trhrough before that.
Trevor.
Trevor G. Ropes
<dkil...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>Hey there,
>
>We haven't heard from David for a while. I wonder whether we should be
>worried.
Probably not - I've been told he's lying low but lurking in the
background.
>Perhaps he's blundered into a survival situation without the requisite
>length of finely-honed rib-sticking cold steel. Personally, I carry a
>14-inch saw-toothed German trench bayonet, not only on bushwalks, but
>everywhere I go. You never know when a survial situation is going to crop
>up.
For the record, I use (and carry in my cutlery bag) a lightweight
serrated-edge Victorinox knife (longer length), with a cork on the
pointy end as a make-do scabbard. It suits most usual bushwalking
purposes (slicing tomatoes / salami, fighting off drop-bears etc.).
Not really anything to do with a knife, but I'm currently using the
remaining half of a pair of walking poles (I tend to be rough with
them), that I am unable to telescope down to it's minimum length
(broken section that I've had to tape up). I thus have to carry it on
the outside of my pack on public transport as it wont fit inside. I'm
surprised I have not yet been bailed up by one of those NSW train
security guards for carrying a potential dangerous weapon.
Trevor.
John McLaine
"Jim wrote :
>
> >> I didn't think he wanted a weapon, I thought he was asking about a
> >> knife.
> >
> >I'm sure Jeff's intentions are honourable, but it was designed and is
sold
> >as a weapon.
>
> To turn that argument around:
It wasn't an argument, just a simple fact. When I did a web search yesterday
to find a picture of the knife in question, I found several knife merchants,
all promoting the knife for combat. It is definitely a weapon.
>It is no defence if charged with using a kitchen knife to commit murder to
argue that it _isn't_
> designed and sold as a weapon.
Well I 'fessed up to using a 20cm Trident in the kitchen. Now that could be
an evil weapon!
> To better understand the uses a decent knife can be put to
> in Australian conditions you may wish to check out the book
> Australian Bush Survival Skills by Kevin Casey,
> Kimberley Publications in Brisbane.
Well I'm willing to learn from Kevin.
> he suggests a lock knife with a 3 to 4" blade is the single most valuable
tool
> to have in this ("survival") situation
Oh, well I already disagree with Kevin. My single most important (hardware)
tool is sufficient insulation for the conditions to eliminate threat of
hypothermia. Then I'll choose a map and compass next. Knife is dropping down
the list as we speak.
And the single most important tool overall is the software between one's
ears.
I'm intrigued, what kind of highjinks and shenanigans does Kevin get into???
Are his scenarios and techniques applicable Australia wide, or regional? Are
they legal in national parks?
> Of course if you're sure that you'll never get into a survival
> situation while bushwalking then you won't need one, will you?
I'm guessing there's a veiled sarcasm in your comment, but you are right. I
am sure I'll never get into a "survival situation" while bushwalking, where
a big knife will be my most important tool.
Is Kevin's book a substitute for a gradual accumulation of experience and
knowledge, sufficient to not only "survive", but to actually enjoy
travelling through the bush? Is it a substitute for Remote Area First Aid
training? Is it a substitute for planning and risk management?
What is Kevin's survivalism all about? Where does it fit into bushwalking?
Willing to learn,
John
Brian W Edginton
>
>What is Kevin's survivalism all about? Where does it fit into bushwalking?
>
>Willing to learn,
>
>John
John
I think it might be about coming home alive!
Go out thinking it can't happen to you sounds a bit like "Aussie
Insurance", to me......you know: "she'll be right, mate".
Maybe she will. Luck.
Lotsa (now) dead people said the same...and she wasn't.
Back to the "huge" 12-13cm fixed blade knife.....definitely stronger
than a Swiss Army thing (of slightly lesser dimensions) with a hinge
in the middle and one of the cheapest stainless steels in the market.
Try cutting poles for a stretcher....or a splint with a folder that
holds an edge for a few minutes of heavy use. IF the hinge doesn't
give way....or the thing doesn't fold and do serious damage to your
fingers. Happens a LOT more than you might imagine.
Believe me, SAKs (and other non-locking pocket knives) are nice around
town.....big-time false security in the bush.
My favourite folders are all non-lockers.....but I wouldn't rely on
one in a do-or-die situation. That's what fixed blades are for. They
don't fold when they are not supposed to and they are hard to break.
The slightly longer cutting edge is going to last longer than a cheap
folder.....if only because the work is spread over a longer edge.
Mostly, they come in better steels, too. Better than an SAK.
Ok, you find fixed blades anathema.......for your own sake, get a
decent locking bladed folder. Personal advice is to avoid cheaper
knives with "liner-locks".
You might do a hundred trips and only peel an orange......what did you
lose carrying a few ounces of extra knife?
Yep...lots of more important things than a knife. Until you need it.
Man's earliest tool long before Walter Mitty.
brianWE
If you see a man who is smiling midst suffering
and chaos, it doesn't hurt to ask...he just might sell
you part of his stash.
Steve Reynolds
<ed...@dingoblue.net.au> wrote:
>but I wouldn't rely on
>one in a do-or-die situation.
How often have you encountered a "do-or-die situation"? I've been
bushwalking and rock climbing for 30 years and have never encountered
such a situation.
Steve
Craig Turner
<jmcl...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
>
>My leatherman stays in the glove box. It's a great tool. I don't need it on
>bushwalks.
I carry a cheap leatherman knock off, and I find it invaluable whilst
hiking. I think a tool like this is a better survival tool than a
knife (although I agree with other posters that a knife doesn't top
the list of survival equipment)
Gaza's Mail
> These are the dumb galoots who ignored the number one rule of
bushwalking - once
> you realise you are lost or in trouble STAY PUT! Walking on while the
potential
> searchers are possibly looking for you adds a new dimension to the phrase
'needle
> in a haystack'.
>
> > A situation that NO ONE gets into unless they "stuffed up somewhere".
> Peter
Call me a dumb galoot, if I stayed put every time I've been lost I'd still
be out there -)
Gaza's Mail
National Park today (Mt Barney) and it says that
"Firearms, machetes, sheath knives and axes are illegal"
Jim (from Oz)
wrote:
>Jim (from Oz) <ji...@impaq.com.au> wrote in message news:3b56458a...@news.mel.ip.net.au...
>
>> To better understand the uses a decent knife can be put
>> to in Australian conditions you may wish to check out the
>> book Australian Bush Survival Skills by Kevin Casey,
>> Kimberley Publications in Brisbane. It's a newish book
>> written within the last 2 or 3 years. If memory serves he
>> considers a good knife (and I think he suggests a lock knife
>> with a 3 to 4" blade) is the single most valuable tool to have
>> in this situation, and having read his book I really do think he
>> can be considered pretty knowledgeable in this area.
>
>Thats all completely irrelevant. He/you needs to actually list the
>situations where its important to be able to sustain the claim.
Well he does in his book, that's why I suggested it.
>You still havent been able to list any situation where
>that particular knife which is illegal in this country would
>be needed for survival, when one that is legal wouldnt do.
I wasn't flying a flag for any particular knife Rod, just pointing
out that I believe a quality knife with a 3 or 4" blade is a sensible
tool to take bushwalking. Also I'm not convinced the knife he
asked about would be illegal, I saw very similar ones in
Aussie Disposals yesterday?
>I cant think of a single one except possibly killing and cutting up
>one of the other bushwalkers for food when everything else is gone.
Don't tempt me :)
Jim (from Oz)
Jim (from Oz)
<jmcl...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
> It is definitely a weapon.
As is any knife; or screwdriver, or knitting needle. If you think of
it in that way and it seems to me that is how you were trying to
portray it - as a weapon therefore as "bad". But SAK = "not a
weapon" therefore "good"
>> To better understand the uses a decent knife can be put to
>> in Australian conditions you may wish to check out the book
>> Australian Bush Survival Skills by Kevin Casey,
>> Kimberley Publications in Brisbane.
>
>Well I'm willing to learn from Kevin.
>
>> he suggests a lock knife with a 3 to 4" blade is the single most valuable
>tool to have in this ("survival") situation
>
>Oh, well I already disagree with Kevin. My single most important (hardware)
>tool is sufficient insulation for the conditions to eliminate threat of
>hypothermia. Then I'll choose a map and compass next. Knife is dropping down
>the list as we speak.
And you haven't even read the book yet. It's just, maybe, that he has
knowledge you don't? Perhaps you should read what he says
before disagreeing?
>I'm intrigued, what kind of highjinks and shenanigans does Kevin get into???
>Are his scenarios and techniques applicable Australia wide, or regional? Are
>they legal in national parks?
Read his book before trying to reduce it to absurdity.
>> Of course if you're sure that you'll never get into a survival
>> situation while bushwalking then you won't need one, will you?
>
>I'm guessing there's a veiled sarcasm in your comment, but you are right. I
>am sure I'll never get into a "survival situation" while bushwalking, where
>a big knife will be my most important tool.
Hmmmm, "big knife"? Sounds like another attempt to demonise something
you don't approve of. John, you or I have no idea what situations we
may get into in the future.
>Is Kevin's book a substitute for a gradual accumulation of experience and
>knowledge, sufficient to not only "survive", but to actually enjoy
>travelling through the bush? Is it a substitute for Remote Area First Aid
>training? Is it a substitute for planning and risk management?
No it's not a substitute for anything. Nor is it the last word on the
subject of survival in the Australian bush. It is merely, imho, an
informative and knowledgeable book on the subject.
>What is Kevin's survivalism all about? Where does it fit into bushwalking?
It fits in when things go wrong. When the unexpected happens. It's all
about taking sensible precautions. Don't bother to take a chain saw
(as one idiot suggested) when you go bushwalking but a crepe
bandage and a decent knife would be worthwhile, imho.
>Willing to learn,
Time will tell but you don't sound too open at the moment.
Jim (from Oz)
Roger Caffin
> I think it might be about coming home alive!
and water supply, and a LIGHT pack are the biggest contributors to
that, in that order. Followed by adequate clothing in winter, as
someone said (= common sense).
May I suggest the following as likely facts:
1. The overwhelming majority of Australian bushwalkers have never
needed to do a single bit of SAS-type survival thing in the bush.
2. The overwhelming majority of Australian bushwalkers who have had
any problems in the bush have got out of them by using brains, not
brawn.
> Try cutting poles for a stretcher....
In most cases I have found available timber that did NOT need a b****y
great knife to prepare.
That's on the extremely rare occasions (2?) in all my years of walking
that I have even needed to make a stretcher. In most cases it has been
better to leave the patient just where he is.
> or a splint with a folder that holds an edge for a few minutes
> of heavy use. IF the hinge doesn't give way...
If you cannot use a tool without injuring yourself, don't.
If you cannot use a tool without damaging it, don't.
A SAK holds it's edge quite well, if treated with moderate care. Mine
does.
> You might do a hundred trips and only peel an orange......what did you
> lose carrying a few ounces of extra knife?
And a few ounces of this, and a few kg of that, and a few tons of
other junk which together may result in your collapsing under the
load.
Survival? or Macho?
Cheers
Roger Caffin
A wagon train got stuck in the snow in the American Rockies a century
or two ago, and had to winter there. The first to die were the young
single (macho) males. The survivors were the family groups, some quite
elderly. Draw your own conclusions.
Roger Caffin
> Roger Caffin wrote
> >As for cutting a climbing rope with an SAK: very easy if you have kept
> >it sharp, and it does NOT damage the steel.
> You managed to sharpen a SAK? More than I have - I'm impressed!
It is not that hard. The steel is neither mild steel nor common carbon
steel, and needs a little sympathy. I use a large (150mm*40mm?)
double-sided stone with a good bit of oil or kero as a lubricant (wipe
off afterwards). The rougher side of the stone is used first to remove
any shoulder. Some practice helps, especially to keep the angle
constant.
The little "pocket" stones are not what I would call useful here.
Using a powered grindstone to sharpen that steel is tricky. The steel
is a poor conductor of heat and is thin. It can get too hot very
easily, and then it is damaged.
In fact, the best stone I ever used for sharpening was a huge old
sandstone wheel some 75mm wide and over 400mm in diameter, turned by
hand (assistant) and running in a water bath. They don't make them
like that any more... cackle, wheeze ...
Cheers
Roger Caffin
Romano
blade.. Timber that's not so big can merely be broken. I've also read that THE
best thing for cutting decent sized timber for strethers etc is a flexible
finger saw ( forget the technical name ) and is by far and away better than any
knife.
However, I have no personal experience of the truth of this.
Romano
Iain
size knife?
I don't think the purpose of this type of blade is purely for the hike
itself, more as a tool in a potential survival situation, which you
_cannot_ predict.
Iain
Luke Webber
news:3B56C95A...@txc.net.au...
> I've read that to cut decent sized timber you really need a DECENT sized
> blade.. Timber that's not so big can merely be broken. I've also read that
THE
> best thing for cutting decent sized timber for strethers etc is a flexible
> finger saw ( forget the technical name ) and is by far and away better
than any
> knife.
> However, I have no personal experience of the truth of this.
Mmmm, no. I'm thinking "chainsaw". Great for self-defense too, and
unquestionably legal. But I'd advise you to skip the hockey mask if you
don't want to raise eyebrows. ;^)
Luke
John McLaine
"Brian wrote
>
> John
> I think it might be about coming home alive!
> Go out thinking it can't happen to you sounds a bit like "Aussie
> Insurance", to me......you know: "she'll be right, mate".
> Maybe she will. Luck.
Brian,
This is a bit like debating geology with a Creationist.
> Try cutting poles for a stretcher.
No thanks. I'd want David's 14" trench bayonet at least!
Hang on, I've got another idea:
If someone is so badly injured that you don't reckon they can walk out,
1 Manage the patient in situ.
2 Send for help. (If you've got enough people to carry a stretcher,
you've got enough to send for help)
3 Await the paramedics and if a non ambulatory evacuation is needed,
4 Use their real stretcher!
>...or a splint
No again. Carry a SAM Splint. They're good. I bought mine for about $25.00.
Stick it in your first aid kit and forget about it.
http://www.samsplint.com/
You've got the limb splinted while Kevin's deciding which stick to whittle.
Can you think of anything else I need the "survival" knife for?
Didn't think so.
>SAK.....big-time false security in the bush.
You're close. Allow me to change two words:
A ....big-knife; false security in the bush.
"Survival" is not about the knife!!!!!!!!!!!
It's about so many other things I don't think this thread is the right
place,
but try these:
gradual incrementally adventurous experiences
an understanding of risk management
good first aid skills
planning
navigational competence.
appropriate equipment.
> one in a do-or-die situation. That's what fixed blades are for.
No. That's what your brain and your combined resources are for.
>what did you lose carrying a few ounces of extra knife?
It's no big deal to me if you want to carry a big knife. But you haven't
convinced me of any tangible benefits.
I'd rather get it right-sized, like the rest of my gear.
> Yep...lots of more important things than a knife. Until you need it.
You've still not listed any genuine uses for your "survival' knife, that my
tiny blade can't handle.
> "she'll be right, mate". Lotsa (now) dead people said the same...and she
wasn't.
No such attitude here Brian. I'm actually fairly conservative in my planning
and gear.
If you like, I'm happy to consider the debate closed unresolved.
If you've got something new to add, I'm happy to keep discussing the issue.
John
John McLaine
"Jim wrote:
> it seems to me that is how you were trying to
> portray it - as a weapon therefore as "bad". But SAK = "not a
> weapon" therefore "good"
>
My use of the word weapon was non judgemental. Is a spade a spade?
It would also be a nice camping knife, and I'm genuinely not against it. But
I don't need to be weighed down by one.
Now to Kevin:
> >> he suggests a lock knife with a 3 to 4" blade is the single most
valuable
> >tool to have in this ("survival") situation
> >
> >Oh, well I already disagree with Kevin. My single most important
(hardware)
> >tool is sufficient insulation for the conditions to eliminate threat of
> >hypothermia. Then I'll choose a map and compass next. Knife is dropping
down
> >the list as we speak.
> And you haven't even read the book yet. It's just, maybe, that he has
> knowledge you don't?
Agreed. I'm sure he does have specific knowledge that I don't have, and I am
genuinely interested in learning from him.
>Perhaps you should read what he says before disagreeing?
Yes and no. Not on that point. If you are in the mountains down here, in a
winter cold front without decent clothes/coat you are likely going to die
from hypothermia very quickly. Regardless of knife. The point being that his
single most important tool is not suitable nationwide.
> >I'm intrigued, what kind of highjinks and shenanigans does Kevin get
into???
> >Are his scenarios and techniques applicable Australia wide, or regional?
Are
> >they legal in national parks?
>
> Read his book before trying to reduce it to absurdity.
I apologise for the inflammatory wording, but these are genuine questions,
still unanswered. I am intereseted to know what the scope of his expertise
is. I'll pursue it further, at your suggestion.
> Hmmmm, "big knife"? Sounds like another attempt to demonise something
No more than I would demonise any piece of gear which is heavier than
necessary for the job. I own several large knives, and I like them all, but
I'm unconvinced I need them in the bush.
>It's all about taking sensible precautions. .......a crepe
> bandage and a decent knife would be worthwhile, imho.
In mine too. Along with many other items.
>>Willing to learn,
>Time will tell but you don't sound too open at the moment.
From my perspective it's the big-knife dogmatics that appear to be switched
off. The best argument in favour of carrying a big knife so far has been
Iain's : "a tool in a potential survival situation, which you _cannot_
predict", which could be an argument for taking just about anything.
I found Kevin's website:
http://www.powerup.com.au/~kimpub/Survival%20Books.htm
Cheers,
John
Pasted from his site:
This 272-page guide outlines proven techniques for dealing with outdoor
emergencies and challenging environments, and is an absolute must for all
who venture into our wild places - 4WD enthusiasts, bush walkers, kayaking
adventurers, boat owners and anyone who works or travels in the bush. It
contains hundreds of field-tested survival methods that have saved countless
lives, and could save yours. Whether you live in Australia, plan to visit
here or just want to own one of the best survival references ever produced
anywhere in the world, this is the book for you. No four-wheel drive or
rucksack can afford to be without one. It includes information that you can
really use on:
Water procurement
Food Gathering
Fire-making
Survival Kits
Improvised Shelters
First Aid / Bush Medicine
Rescue Preparation
Protection from the Elements
The Right Clothing
4WD Vehicle Safety
Direction Finding
Survival at Sea
Hazardous Creatures
Handling Tough Terrain
Survival Equipment
Survival on Isolated Coastlines
Natural Disasters
Outback Communications
Reading the Weather
Emergency Fishing Methods
Rod Speed
Jim (from Oz) <ji...@impaq.com.au> wrote in message news:3b56aec5...@news.mel.ip.net.au...
>>> To better understand the uses a decent knife can be put
>>> to in Australian conditions you may wish to check out the
>>> book Australian Bush Survival Skills by Kevin Casey,
>>> Kimberley Publications in Brisbane. It's a newish book
>>> written within the last 2 or 3 years. If memory serves he
>>> considers a good knife (and I think he suggests a lock knife
>>> with a 3 to 4" blade) is the single most valuable tool to have
>>> in this situation, and having read his book I really do think he
>>> can be considered pretty knowledgeable in this area.
>> Thats all completely irrelevant. He/you needs to actually list the
>> situations where its important to be able to sustain the claim.
> Well he does in his book, that's why I suggested it.
That was a comment on your 'he can be considered pretty knowledgeable
in this area' What matters is what can be listed situation wise where that
style of knife adds anything to the survival chances.
There arent enough to need a book, they can be listed here
instead, copied from the book if you cant list them yourself.
>> You still havent been able to list any situation where
>> that particular knife which is illegal in this country would
>> be needed for survival, when one that is legal wouldnt do.
> I wasn't flying a flag for any particular knife Rod,
> just pointing out that I believe a quality knife with
> a 3 or 4" blade is a sensible tool to take bushwalking.
Taint good enough to 'I believe', you have list the situations where
that particular style of knife adds anything that a legal knife doesnt.
> Also I'm not convinced the knife he asked about would be illegal,
The definition of a flick knife is very clear in
the Victorian legislation I quoted. Dagger too.
> I saw very similar ones in Aussie Disposals yesterday?
Says nothing useful about the law. In spades with a
particular knife which is spruiked as a 'tactical' knife.
>> I cant think of a single one except possibly killing and cutting up
>> one of the other bushwalkers for food when everything else is gone.
> Don't tempt me :)
You're gunna have to come up with some specific situations
where that illegal knife is any advantage over a legal one.
I doubt you can except possibly say cutting up an already dead kangaroo etc.
Even then, its one hell of a stretch, there are plenty of legal knives that can
do that quite adequately, even if not quite as convenient as that illegal knife.
Trevor Calder
> The definition of a flick knife is very clear in
> the Victorian legislation I quoted. Dagger too.
Well it isn't a dagger for a start. It doesn't have 2 edges.
And it's no more a flick knife than any other folding knife.
trevor
tony dyson
not deterred you from coming to Australia. You will find, sadly, that
what was once a nation of self-reliant, forthright individuals has
degenerated into a nanny state.
A succession of gutless governments, egged on by gangs of social
engineers, has created a sad atmosphere of political correctness
which has led to the passage of laws about all sorts of silly things,
including knives.
You will find a wide range of knives on sale here. Buy and carry what
you want.
For what it's worth, in the bush I carry a Swiss Army Knife (Rucksack
model, with a locking blade) for cooking and general duties. I also
carry a sheath knife (Corps brand). This is strong, very light and
sharp and has an excellent grip. It is a defensive weapon. At night,
it lies beside my sleeping bag, along with a torch and my watch. I
hope I never have to use it for a defensive purpose, but I will always
carry it.
The recent shooting/abduction of British tourists in northern
Australia proves that there ARE loonies on the loose out there and you
need to be prepared to defend yourself.
It is difficult not to agree with a comment I saw the other day. It
came from a legislator in one of the States in the South (maybe
Arkansas or somewhere like that). He said: An armed society is a
polite society.
I hope you and your chosen knife go on many long, happy walks in
Australia.
Regards,
Tony.
Roger Caffin
>
> So why do all survival manuals (civ and military) recomend a decent
> size knife?
Dunno. "All?"
But then, the few "survival" books I have read seem to have been
written by armchair experts whose only experience with the ideas was
had by trying them out in the backyard. Like looking for moss on one
side of a tree, or spending two days calibrating a sun dial, or
chopping down several young trees to find which ones might drip water
- cackle. Maybe I read the "wrong" books?
Mind you, some of them described how to make a wonderful range of Boy
Scout camping furniture with nothing more than 100m of rope, a chain
saw amd several days...
Cheers
Roger Caffin
Roger Caffin
> Brian,
> This is a bit like debating geology with a Creationist.
Good one John!
Cheers
Roger Caffin
Roger Caffin
> I've also read that THE
> best thing for cutting decent sized timber for strethers etc is a flexible
> finger saw ( forget the technical name ) and is by far and away better than any
> knife.
The rings on the ends are hell on the fingers!
Helps if you put a stick through each ring to make a handle. Need a
BIG knife to cut the handles of course :-)
Cheers
Roger Caffin
Brian W Edginton
wrote:
Keep it up, Roger....if you assert it often enough, the 5 inch bladed
knife discussed will BECOME a large knife. Dunno what that will make
my 9-10 inch models (which I WOULDN'T take on a walk)
Straw man stuff at its best.
And, By the way, I wouldn't call Lofty Wiseman an arm-chair expert.
If you can't win with facts, a sneer will do.....just ask Peter
Costello.
brianWE
I once resolved to order my life by following my own
advice to others.
But I had to give it up as there was too much of it.
Rod Speed
Trevor Calder <trevor...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:519bb921.01071...@posting.google.com...
> Rod Speed <rod_...@yahoo.com> wrote
>> Jim (from Oz) <ji...@impaq.com.au> wrote
>>> Also I'm not convinced the knife he asked about would be illegal,
>> The definition of a flick knife is very clear in
>> the Victorian legislation I quoted. Dagger too.
> Well it isn't a dagger for a start. It doesn't have 2 edges.
The definition of a dagger in the Victorian legislation doesnt require 2 edges.
> And it's no more a flick knife than any other folding knife.
Wrong again. The definition of a flick knife in the
Victorian legislation doesnt include all folding knives.
There are definitions in the legislation for a reason.
Trevor Calder
spread these words:
>Trevor Calder <trevor...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:519bb92
>1.01071917...@posting.google.com...
>> Well it isn't a dagger for a start. It doesn't have 2 edges.
>The definition of a dagger in the Victorian legislation doesnt require
> 2 edges.
True, but since the knife doesn't have "a needle-like blade, the cross
section of which is elliptical or has 3 or more sides" then I suppose
the only thing which would apply is "a flat blade with cutting edges
(whether serrated or not serrated) along the length of both sides".
So, in this case, the fact that the knife doesn't have 2 edges means
it isn't a dagger. Understand now?
You've been caught out again by the facts, Rod.
>> And it's no more a flick knife than any other folding knife.
>Wrong again.
Right again.
>The definition of a flick knife in the
>Victorian legislation doesnt include all folding knives.
I never said it did - I said that this particular knife didn't fall
under the definition of "flick knife" any more than other folders.
The definition is "Flick knife, being a knife designed or adapted
so that the blade is concealed when folded or recessed into the handle
and which opens by gravity or centrifugal force or by any pressure
applied to a button, spring or device in or attached to the handle of
the knife."
I know some of those words might be a bit long for you, but try reading
and understanding it.
>There are definitions in the legislation for a reason.
So you can misunderstand them?
--
Trevor Calder
"..it is foolishness and endless trouble to cast a
stone at every dog that barks at you.."
Dave Hayes
> so that the blade is concealed when folded or recessed into the handle
> and which opens by gravity or centrifugal force or by any pressure
> applied to a button, spring or device in or attached to the handle of
> the knife."
>
The 'flick knives' I saw for sale in Peru had a simple plastic handle with a
button which, when pressed popped the spring mounted (double sided) 'dagger'
blade out of the handle. Pressing the button again did the opposite. It's
always been my belief that this is a flick knife. Not a blade which moves
around 180 degrees to become a 'fixed blade', unlocked by the press of a
button.
btw, has anyone noticed that this thread (and the whole newsgroup for that
matter) is dominated by about 90% males... just an observation...
dave.
Dave Hayes
>
> >>> Well it isn't a dagger for a start. It doesn't have 2 edges.
>
> >> The definition of a dagger in the Victorian legislation doesnt require
2 edges.
>
> > True, but since the knife doesn't have "a needle-like blade, the cross
> > section of which is elliptical or has 3 or more sides" then I suppose
> > the only thing which would apply is "a flat blade with cutting edges
> > (whether serrated or not serrated) along the length of both sides".
>
> The other thing that matters on that is that its spruiked as a 'tactical'
knife, stupid.
>
> > So, in this case, the fact that the knife doesn't
> > have 2 edges means it isn't a dagger.
>
> Fraid not.
>
> > Understand now?
>
> Nothing to 'understand'
>
> > You've been caught out again by the facts, Rod.
>
> Even you should be able to bullshit better than that, Calder.
>
> You fucked up completely on the definition of a flick knife in the
victorian legislation.
>
> >>> And it's no more a flick knife than any other folding knife.
>
> >> Wrong again.
>
> > Right again.
>
> Wrong again.
>
> >> The definition of a flick knife in the Victorian
> >> legislation doesnt include all folding knives.
>
> > I never said it did - I said that this particular knife didn't fall
> > under the definition of "flick knife" any more than other folders.
>
> I never said you did. You fucked up completely on that
> 'it's no more a flick knife than any other folding knife'
>
> > The definition is "Flick knife, being a knife designed or adapted so
that
> > the blade is concealed when folded or recessed into the handle and
> > which opens by gravity or centrifugal force or by any pressure applied
> > to a button, spring or device in or attached to the handle of the
knife."
>
> And that particular knife qualifys on that. Quite a few folding knives
dont.
>
> > I know some of those words might be a bit long
> > for you, but try reading and understanding it.
>
> Even you should be able to bullshit better than that Calder.
>
> >> There are definitions in the legislation for a reason.
>
> > So you can misunderstand them?
>
> Even you should be able to bullshit better than that Calder.
>
> Cant even manage to read and comprehend that
> definition of a flick knife that that particular knife
> qualifys on. And plenty of other folding knives dont.
>
> Your 'it's no more a flick knife than any other folding knife' is just
plain wrong.
>
> As always with you.
>
> As always, you couldnt actually manage to bullshit your
> way out of wet paper bag, even if your life depended on it.
>
Rod Speed
Dave Hayes <dha...@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:M6r67.1120$t9....@news1.belrs1.nsw.optushome.com.au...
>> The definition is "Flick knife, being a knife designed or adapted so that
>> the blade is concealed when folded or recessed into the handle and
>> which opens by gravity or centrifugal force or by any pressure applied
>> to a button, spring or device in or attached to the handle of the knife."
> The 'flick knives' I saw for sale in Peru had a simple plastic
> handle with a button which, when pressed popped the spring mounted
> (double sided) 'dagger' blade out of the handle. Pressing the button
> again did the opposite. It's always been my belief that this is a flick knife.
Your belief has always been, and always will be, completely and utterly irrelevant.
What matters is how the legislation defines it.
> Not a blade which moves around 180 degrees to become
> a 'fixed blade', unlocked by the press of a button.
That legislation says otherwise. You get to like that or lump it.
> btw, has anyone noticed that this thread (and the whole
> newsgroup for that matter) is dominated by about 90% males...
Its just as true of the absolute vast bulk of usenet too.
> just an observation...
A particularly useless one.
Dave Hayes
believe it's worth swearing your head off (Ie, being childish) over your
views on how to define a knife. Calm down and think before you bite someone
else's head off - it's a discussion, not an argument.
dave.
Jeff Mai
"Rod Speed" <rod_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Trevor Calder <tre...@REMOVETHISiinet.net.au> wrote in
> message news:3b59a991$0$17...@echo-01.iinet.net.au...
> > Rod Speed <rod_...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >> Trevor Calder <trevor...@my-deja.com> wrote
>
> >>> Well it isn't a dagger for a start. It doesn't have 2 edges.
>
> >> The definition of a dagger in the Victorian legislation doesnt require 2
> >> edges.
>
> > True, but since the knife doesn't have "a needle-like blade, the cross
> > section of which is elliptical or has 3 or more sides" then I suppose
> > the only thing which would apply is "a flat blade with cutting edges
> > (whether serrated or not serrated) along the length of both sides".
>
> The other thing that matters on that is that its spruiked as a 'tactical'
> knife, stupid.
I've been doing some research on this and I read somewhere that the
Victorian government were considering giving tactical knives the
prohibited label, but that they have not yet done it.
> > So, in this case, the fact that the knife doesn't
> > have 2 edges means it isn't a dagger.
>
> Fraid not.
One edge on this knife is "false"; it is also available with a single
edge (no false edge at all.) The single edge version could not be
mistaken for a dagger.
> > The definition is "Flick knife, being a knife designed or adapted so that
> > the blade is concealed when folded or recessed into the handle and
> > which opens by gravity or centrifugal force or by any pressure applied
> > to a button, spring or device in or attached to the handle of the knife."
>
> And that particular knife qualifys on that. Quite a few folding knives dont.
This particular knife does have a button on the handle, but it's for
engaging the lock safety to prevent it from accidently closing. You
open it with the thumb stud on the blade just like other liner locks.
Sirion
arrive here.
Rod Speed probably would get on well with the guy from Geelong who went to
Tas and got lost. Two lost souls together, how sweet!
--
"Peter Signorini" <pet...@alphalink.com.au> wrote in message
news:3B5A8764...@alphalink.com.au...
>
> Oh boy, someone is really losing the plot.
>
> Is this the 5 minute argument or the full half hour argument?
>
> Cheers
> Peter
Sirion
Rod which mental institution did you come from when they closed them all
down?
<trimming aus.legal to see if that is the cure>
--
"Rod Speed" <rod_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3b5a...@news.iprimus.com.au...
>
> Some pathetic little wogboy claiming to be
>
> Twasnt random, stupid wogchild.
>
> > Oh boy, someone is really losing the plot.
>
> Yeah, some stupid wogchild.
>
> > Is this the 5 minute argument or the full half hour argument?
>
> Even a stupid wogchild should be able to manage better than that, wogchild.
Rod Speed
Jeff Mai <jeff...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:jeff_mai-A070E3...@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com...
>>>>> Well it isn't a dagger for a start. It doesn't have 2 edges.
>>>> The definition of a dagger in the Victorian legislation doesnt require 2 edges.
>>> True, but since the knife doesn't have "a needle-like blade, the cross
>>> section of which is elliptical or has 3 or more sides" then I suppose
>>> the only thing which would apply is "a flat blade with cutting edges
>>> (whether serrated or not serrated) along the length of both sides".
>> The other thing that matters on that is that
>> its spruiked as a 'tactical' knife, stupid.
> I've been doing some research on this and I read somewhere
> that the Victorian government were considering giving tactical
> knives the prohibited label, but that they have not yet done it.
Yes, I quoted the current legislation.
That would basically just simplify things with the knives that
manage to slip thru on the definition of flick knives and daggers.
>>> So, in this case, the fact that the knife doesn't
>>> have 2 edges means it isn't a dagger.
>> Fraid not.
> One edge on this knife is "false"; it is also
> available with a single edge (no false edge at all.)
The definition of dagger in the legislation involves more than just two edges.
And it clearly qualifys as a 'flick knife' anyway.
> The single edge version could not be mistaken for a dagger.
Its more complicated that that with a knife spruiked as a 'tactical' knife.
Thats what a dagger is.
>>> The definition is "Flick knife, being a knife designed or adapted so that
>>> the blade is concealed when folded or recessed into the handle and
>>> which opens by gravity or centrifugal force or by any pressure applied
>>> to a button, spring or device in or attached to the handle of the knife."
>> And that particular knife qualifys on that. Quite a few folding knives dont.
> This particular knife does have a button on the handle, but it's
> for engaging the lock safety to prevent it from accidently closing.
There is more involved in the definition of a flick knife
than the button. The word 'or' is there for a reason.
> You open it with the thumb stud on the blade just like other liner locks.
That qualifys as 'device in or attached to the handle of the knife'
And just to make my position completely clear, I think
the legislation is completely stupid, I was just pointing
out that that particular knife is illegal in Victoria.
Roger Caffin
> btw, has anyone noticed that this thread (and the whole newsgroup for that
> matter) is dominated by about 90% males... just an observation...
Oh dear.
(Suffers a serious identity crisis)
Cheers
Roger Caffin
Jeff Mai
> Jeff Mai <jeff...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:jeff_mai-A070E3...@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com...
> > Rod Speed <rod_...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >> Trevor Calder <tre...@REMOVETHISiinet.net.au> wrote
> >>> Rod Speed <rod_...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >>>> Trevor Calder <trevor...@my-deja.com> wrote
> > The single edge version could not be mistaken for a dagger.
>
> Its more complicated that that with a knife spruiked as a 'tactical' knife.
>
> Thats what a dagger is.
I missed the part of the legislation that defines a dagger as any
tactical knife. Can you point me to a web site showing this definition?
> >>> The definition is "Flick knife, being a knife designed or adapted so that
> >>> the blade is concealed when folded or recessed into the handle and
> >>> which opens by gravity or centrifugal force or by any pressure applied
> >>> to a button, spring or device in or attached to the handle of the knife."
>
> >> And that particular knife qualifys on that. Quite a few folding knives
> >> dont.
>
> > This particular knife does have a button on the handle, but it's
> > for engaging the lock safety to prevent it from accidently closing.
>
> There is more involved in the definition of a flick knife
> than the button. The word 'or' is there for a reason.
>
> > You open it with the thumb stud on the blade just like other liner locks.
>
> That qualifys as 'device in or attached to the handle of the knife'
It does? The thumb stud is not in or attached to the handle; it's
attached to the blade. If that qualifies indirectly because the blade
is attached to the handle, why didn't they just say attached to any part
of the knife?
Rod Speed
>>>> Trevor Calder <tre...@REMOVETHISiinet.net.au> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod_...@yahoo.com> wrote
>>>>>> Trevor Calder <trevor...@my-deja.com> wrote
>>> The single edge version could not be mistaken for a dagger.
>> Its more complicated that that with a knife spruiked as a 'tactical' knife.
>> Thats what a dagger is.
> I missed the part of the legislation that defines a dagger as any
> tactical knife. Can you point me to a web site showing this definition?
There doesnt need to be. Customs will just sieze it on entry and you
get to provide something from the Victorian Police Commissioner that
says its legal in Victoria before you get it back. That wont happen with
something thats spruiked as a tactical knife and which fits the definition
of a flick knife in both the victorian and federal legislation.
>>>>> The definition is "Flick knife, being a knife designed or adapted so that
>>>>> the blade is concealed when folded or recessed into the handle and
>>>>> which opens by gravity or centrifugal force or by any pressure applied
>>>>> to a button, spring or device in or attached to the handle of the knife."
>>>> And that particular knife qualifys on that. Quite a few folding knives dont.
>>> This particular knife does have a button on the handle, but it's
>>> for engaging the lock safety to prevent it from accidently closing.
>> There is more involved in the definition of a flick knife
>> than the button. The word 'or' is there for a reason.
>>> You open it with the thumb stud on the blade just like other liner locks.
>> That qualifys as 'device in or attached to the handle of the knife'
> It does? The thumb stud is not in or attached
> to the handle; it's attached to the blade.
They wont agree. And even if they did, it will
still qualify as a flick knife on the other stuff.
> If that qualifies indirectly because the blade is attached to the
> handle, why didn't they just say attached to any part of the knife?
Thats the way legislation is written.
Jeff Mai
"Rod Speed" <rod_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I missed the part of the legislation that defines a dagger as any
> > tactical knife. Can you point me to a web site showing this definition?
>
> There doesnt need to be. Customs will just sieze it on entry and you
> get to provide something from the Victorian Police Commissioner that
> says its legal in Victoria before you get it back. That wont happen with
> something thats spruiked as a tactical knife and which fits the definition
> of a flick knife in both the victorian and federal legislation.
>
>
> >> That qualifys as 'device in or attached to the handle of the knife'
>
> > It does? The thumb stud is not in or attached
> > to the handle; it's attached to the blade.
>
> They wont agree. And even if they did, it will
> still qualify as a flick knife on the other stuff.
Specifically what "other stuff?"
Customs may well confiscate the knife, but given you can actually buy it
from a Gerber dealer in Australia, I'm fairly certain it meets with the
legal requirements.
Trevor Calder
> > > True, but since the knife doesn't have "a needle-like blade, the cross
> > > section of which is elliptical or has 3 or more sides" then I suppose
> > > the only thing which would apply is "a flat blade with cutting edges
> > > (whether serrated or not serrated) along the length of both sides".
> The other thing that matters on that is that its spruiked as a 'tactical'
> knife, stupid.
Rod, you really must read what's there, not what you think is there.
The definition in the legislation says nothing about how a knife is
advertised.
Since this knife doesn't meet either of the two definitions in the
legislation, it isn't a dagger.
Now is that really so hard for you to understand, or are you just
going to make silly noises because you're wrong again?
(what am I saying? I know the answer already)
> > > So, in this case, the fact that the knife doesn't
> > > have 2 edges means it isn't a dagger.
> Fraid not.
Fraid so. See, when an object like this doesn't meet the legislative
definition, it means it isn't what's defined. In this case, the knife
isn't a dagger because it doesn't meet either of the definitions.
> > > Understand now?
> Nothing to 'understand'
Nothing you can understand, I guess. Facts can be like that if they
aren't what you want them to be.
> > > You've been caught out again by the facts, Rod.
> Even you should be able to bullshit better than that, Calder.
So, sticking to the facts is bullshit is it?
> > You fucked up completely on the definition of a flick knife in the
> victorian legislation.
But Rod, that's the definition *you* posted....
I knew you'd say something like that <vvbg>
> > >>> And it's no more a flick knife than any other folding knife.
> > >> Wrong again.
> > > Right again.
> > Wrong again.
Right again.
> > > The definition is "Flick knife, being a knife designed or adapted so
> that
> > > the blade is concealed when folded or recessed into the handle and
> > > which opens by gravity or centrifugal force or by any pressure applied
> > > to a button, spring or device in or attached to the handle of the
> knife."
> > And that particular knife qualifys on that.
Oh? How, exactly? It doesn't open by gravity, centrifugal force or a
"button, spring or device in or attached to the handle".
C'mon Rod - amaze us all by pointing out how a knife that doesn't meet
the legal definition of a flick knife does meet the legal definition.
>Quite a few folding knives dont.
And this is one of them. Now, read this bit carefully Rod - knives
like this are on sale all over Oz. They are on sale openly. The reason
they are openly displayed is because they aren't illegal.
> Cant even manage to read and comprehend that
> definition of a flick knife that that particular knife
> qualifys on. And plenty of other folding knives dont.
OK, Rod - put up or shut up time.
Tell me how that knife meets the definition of a flick knife. If you
can.
And if you can, I will admit I'm wrong - but you can't, can you?
You're going to retreat into name calling because you've been caught
with your pants down again.
> > Your 'it's no more a flick knife than any other folding knife' is just
> plain wrong.
No, it's plain right.
> As always with you.
Facts are like that.
> > As always, you couldnt actually manage to bullshit your
> > way out of wet paper bag, even if your life depended on it.
Next Rod Speed post will be a "some stupid wanker hiding behind" one,
you wait and see.
It always is when Rod gets caught out.
trevor
Rod Speed
> Rod Speed <rod_...@yahoo.com> wrote
>>> I missed the part of the legislation that defines a dagger as any
>>> tactical knife. Can you point me to a web site showing this definition?
>> There doesnt need to be. Customs will just sieze it on entry and you
>> get to provide something from the Victorian Police Commissioner that
>> says its legal in Victoria before you get it back. That wont happen with
>> something thats spruiked as a tactical knife and which fits the definition
>> of a flick knife in both the victorian and federal legislation.
>>>>> You open it with the thumb stud on the blade just like other liner locks.
>>>> That qualifys as 'device in or attached to the handle of the knife'
>>> It does? The thumb stud is not in or attached
>>> to the handle; it's attached to the blade.
>> They wont agree. And even if they did, it will
>> still qualify as a flick knife on the other stuff.
> Specifically what "other stuff?"
'the blade is concealed when folded or recessed into the handle and
which opens by gravity or centrifugal force or by any pressure applied' etc
> Customs may well confiscate the knife, but given you
> can actually buy it from a Gerber dealer in Australia,
> I'm fairly certain it meets with the legal requirements.
It doesnt with the Victorian legislation. Each state has
its own legal requirements and definitions. NSW doesnt
for example proscribe 'daggers in the same way.
Thats why a Gerber dealer can flog them in some circumstances.
Rod Speed
Trevor Calder <trevor...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:519bb921.01072...@posting.google.com...
> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> True, but since the knife doesn't have "a needle-like blade, the cross
>>>> section of which is elliptical or has 3 or more sides" then I suppose
>>>> the only thing which would apply is "a flat blade with cutting edges
>>>> (whether serrated or not serrated) along the length of both sides".
>> The other thing that matters on that is that
>> its spruiked as a 'tactical' knife, stupid.
> Rod, you really must read what's there, not what you think is there.
I did that, that dagger bit ALSO says,
"Dagger", being a sharp pointed stabbing instrument (other than an
oyster knife), ordinarily capable of being concealed on the person
Try bullshitting your way out of that one.
> The definition in the legislation says nothing about how a knife is advertised.
Pathetic really.
> Since this knife doesn't meet either of the two
> definitions in the legislation, it isn't a dagger.
Wrong again.
Reams of your puerile silly shit flushed where it belongs.
>>>> So, in this case, the fact that the knife doesn't
>>>> have 2 edges means it isn't a dagger.
>> Fraid not.
> Fraid so.
Fraid not.
> See, when an object like this doesn't meet the legislative definition,
You aint established that it doesnt.
> it means it isn't what's defined. In this case, the knife isn't
> a dagger because it doesn't meet either of the definitions.
Wrong again.
Reams of your puerile silly shit flushed where it belongs.
>>>>>> And it's no more a flick knife than any other folding knife.
>>>> The definition is "Flick knife, being a knife designed or adapted so that
>>>> the blade is concealed when folded or recessed into the handle and
>>>> which opens by gravity or centrifugal force or by any pressure applied
>>>> to a button, spring or device in or attached to the handle of the knife."
>>> And that particular knife qualifys on that.
> Oh? How, exactly? It doesn't open by gravity, centrifugal force
> or a "button, spring or device in or attached to the handle".
Wrong again.
All the rest of your puerile silly shit flushed where it belongs.
Trevor Calder
> Jeff Mai <jeff...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:jeff_mai-13E891...@news2.rdc2.tx.home.com...
> >>> It does? The thumb stud is not in or attached
> >>> to the handle; it's attached to the blade.
> >> They wont agree. And even if they did, it will
> >> still qualify as a flick knife on the other stuff.
> > Specifically what "other stuff?"
> 'the blade is concealed when folded or recessed into the handle and
> which opens by gravity or centrifugal force or by any pressure applied' etc
Now, now Rod - you must learn to stop editing selectively. The wording
is "which opens by gravity or centrifugal force or by any pressure
applied
to a button, spring or device in or attached to the handle of the
knife."
The important bit there is "pressure applied to a button, spring or
device in or attached to the handle of the knife" - which this knife
doesn't have, so it isn't a flick knife.
See, easy isn't it?
Now, I don't expect any admission of the fact that you're wrong so
you'd better just call me names so we can all see you've been caught
having to deal with facts again.
trevor
Phil C
just answer the question without the garbage , if you can or choose to. It
is your life er Usenet after all right .
Trevor Calder
> >> The other thing that matters on that is that
> >> its spruiked as a 'tactical' knife, stupid.
>
> > Rod, you really must read what's there, not what you think is there.
>
> I did that, that dagger bit ALSO says,
> "Dagger", being a sharp pointed stabbing instrument (other than an
> oyster knife), ordinarily capable of being concealed on the person
> Try bullshitting your way out of that one.
Unlike you I don't need to bullshit. I just use facts.
The wording is:
"Dagger", being a sharp pointed stabbing instrument (other than an
oyster
knife), ordinarily capable of being concealed on the person and
having--
AND having - see that bit, Rod? AND having - you can't just leave bits
out to suit yourself, you know. Not even if they're the bits that
prove you wrong.
That means that as well as:
"being a sharp pointed stabbing instrument (other than an oyster
knife), ordinarily capable of being concealed on the person"
It ALSO has to have:
(a) a flat blade with cutting edges (whether serrated
or not serrated) along the length of both sides; or
(b) a needle-like blade, the cross section of which is elliptical
or has 3 or more sides
See? It must meet BOTH parts of the definition. That's why there's
that "and" in there.
Go on Rod, admit I'm right and you're wrong. We'll all think better of
you if you're prepared to admit to a mistake.
> > The definition in the legislation says nothing about how a knife is advertised.
> Pathetic really.
Did I miss something? You were going on about how it was important
that it was marketed as a "tactical" knife. That's not in the
legislation, so it isn't important, just like I said. And the best you
can answer with is "pathetic really".....
Perhaps you meant you were pathetic for bringing it up.
> > Since this knife doesn't meet either of the two
> > definitions in the legislation, it isn't a dagger.
>
> Wrong again.
>
> Reams of your puerile silly shit flushed where it belongs.
Back to normal, now. The medication must be kicking in.
> >>>> So, in this case, the fact that the knife doesn't
> >>>> have 2 edges means it isn't a dagger.
> >> Fraid not.
> > Fraid so.
> Fraid not.
Fraid so.
> > See, when an object like this doesn't meet the legislative definition,
>
> You aint established that it doesnt.
Yes I have. You're just trying to bullshit about a subject you are
ignorant of, like normal.
> > it means it isn't what's defined. In this case, the knife isn't
> > a dagger because it doesn't meet either of the definitions.
>
> Wrong again.
Right again.
> Reams of your puerile silly shit flushed where it belongs.
Too difficult to argue about facts when you're wrong isn't it?
> >>>> The definition is "Flick knife, being a knife designed or adapted so that
> >>>> the blade is concealed when folded or recessed into the handle and
> >>>> which opens by gravity or centrifugal force or by any pressure applied
> >>>> to a button, spring or device in or attached to the handle of the knife."
> >>> And that particular knife qualifys on that.
> > Oh? How, exactly? It doesn't open by gravity, centrifugal force
> > or a "button, spring or device in or attached to the handle".
> Wrong again.
Right again.
Of course if I'm wrong, you won't have any problem pointing out where
I'm wrong, and why, will you?
> All the rest of your puerile silly shit flushed where it belongs.
yawn......you could try coming up with something more than that Rod.
It gets boring after the first few dozen times someone points out
where you got caught with your pants down....
trevor
Rod Speed
Some pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist claiming to be
Trevor Calder <trevor...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:519bb921.01072...@posting.google.com...
>>>>> It does? The thumb stud is not in or attached
>>>>> to the handle; it's attached to the blade.
>>>> They wont agree. And even if they did, it will
>>>> still qualify as a flick knife on the other stuff.
>>> Specifically what "other stuff?"
>> 'the blade is concealed when folded or recessed into the handle and
>> which opens by gravity or centrifugal force or by any pressure applied' etc
> Now, now Rod - you must learn to stop editing selectively. The wording
> is "which opens by gravity or centrifugal force or by any pressure applied
> a button, spring or device in or attached to the handle of the knife."
Changes absolutely nothing you pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist.
AND that extra stuff was ALREADY in that post and
you carefully edited it out of the quoting yourself.
Try harder, posturing prat, you might actually manage to fool someone, sometime.
All the rest of your puerile shit flushed where it belongs.
Trevor Calder
spread these words:
>Some pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist claiming to be
>Trevor Calder <trevor...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:519bb92
>1.01072221...@posting.google.com...
>> Rod Speed <rod_...@yahoo.com> wrote
>>> 'the blade is concealed when folded or recessed into the handle and
>>> which opens by gravity or centrifugal force or by any pressure appl
>ied' etc
>> Now, now Rod - you must learn to stop editing selectively. The wordi
>ng
>> is "which opens by gravity or centrifugal force or by any pressure a
>pplied
>> a button, spring or device in or attached to the handle of the knife
>."
>Changes absolutely nothing you pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist.
Doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.
>AND that extra stuff was ALREADY in that post and
>you carefully edited it out of the quoting yourself.
No I didn't, and you know it you naughty boy.
You wrote your post so the important bit, which is
"in or attached to the handle of the knife" wasn't in the definition.
You did it because you know you're wrong and you are getting desperate
to find something which doesn't make you look like a total prat.
Don't look now, but it isn't working....
>Try harder, posturing prat, you might actually manage to fool someone,
> sometime.
Don't have to fool anyone.
Not Rod Speed the Wanker!!
pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist/flagrant hypocrite/admitted
criminal/posturing prat/desperate wanker, cowering behind
"Rod Speed" <rod_...@yahoo.com>
has been trying to 'spew up some sort of puerile shit but everyone has flushed
where it belongs.
his posts are just a pathetic excuse for drunken rant/pathological lying/
rabid psychopathic ranting/pathetic excuse for a bullshit
/flagrant hypocrisy/etc etc etc thats all he can ever manage.
What a Wanker ...
Rod Speed wrote:
> John McLaine <jmcl...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in
> message news:3b562b2a$1...@news.iprimus.com.au...
>
> > I'll concede that I may get injured. I can't
> > see how the 5" knife will save my life.
>
> Its for when all the food runs out and you need
> to start eating the other bushwalkers, silly.
>
> >> I wish more people would think a bit ahead......would save
> >> the volunteer rescuers putting their lives on the line so often.
>
> > Is this a put-down? I'd better tell everyone on
> > my search call out list to upgrade their knifes.
>
> > I believe if you "think a bit ahead", you won't need a big knife.
>
> Cant see you need one even without thinking
> ahead either. A small one used for food is plenty.
>
> Sure, some may prefer something a bit
> bigger that is so convenient to fold etc.
>
> And yes, thats now been caught by the rather stupid knife laws.
>
> Just like handguns have when there may be crocs around etc.
>
> > Before the big knife afficionados get cranky, I stress: carry whatever knife
> > you want. But I maintain that a small knife is sufficient for bushwalking.
>
> Sure.
Not Rod Speed the Wanker!!
pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist/flagrant hypocrite/admitted
criminal/posturing prat/desperate wanker, cowering behind
"Rod Speed" <rod_...@yahoo.com>
has been trying to 'spew up some sort of puerile shit but everyone has flushed where it
belongs.
his posts are just a pathetic excuse for drunken rant/pathological lying/
rabid psychopathic ranting/pathetic excuse for a bullshit
/flagrant hypocrisy/etc etc etc thats all he can ever manage.
What a Wanker ...
Not Rod Speed the Wanker!!
pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist/flagrant hypocrite/admitted
criminal/posturing prat/desperate wanker, cowering behind
"Rod Speed" <rod_...@yahoo.com>
has been trying to 'spew up some sort of puerile shit but everyone has flushed
where it belongs.
his posts are just a pathetic excuse for drunken rant/pathological lying/
rabid psychopathic ranting/pathetic excuse for a bullshit
/flagrant hypocrisy/etc etc etc thats all he can ever manage.
What a Wanker ...
Not Rod Speed the Wanker!!
pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist/flagrant hypocrite/admitted
criminal/posturing prat/desperate wanker, cowering behind
"Rod Speed" <rod_...@yahoo.com>
has been trying to 'spew up some sort of puerile shit but everyone has flushed where
it belongs.
his posts are just a pathetic excuse for drunken rant/pathological lying/
rabid psychopathic ranting/pathetic excuse for a bullshit
/flagrant hypocrisy/etc etc etc thats all he can ever manage.
What a Wanker ...
Not Rod Speed the Wanker!!
pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist/flagrant hypocrite/admitted
criminal/posturing prat/desperate wanker, cowering behind
"Rod Speed" <rod_...@yahoo.com>
has been trying to 'spew up some sort of puerile shit but everyone has flushed where it
belongs.
his posts are just a pathetic excuse for drunken rant/pathological lying/
rabid psychopathic ranting/pathetic excuse for a bullshit
/flagrant hypocrisy/etc etc etc thats all he can ever manage.
What a Wanker ...
Not Rod Speed the Wanker!!
pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist/flagrant hypocrite/admitted
criminal/posturing prat/desperate wanker, cowering behind
"Rod Speed" <rod_...@yahoo.com>
has been trying to 'spew up some sort of puerile shit but everyone has
flushed where it belongs.
his posts are just a pathetic excuse for drunken rant/pathological
lying/
rabid psychopathic ranting/pathetic excuse for a bullshit
/flagrant hypocrisy/etc etc etc thats all he can ever manage.
What a Wanker ...
Rod Speed wrote:
> Some pathetic drunk/pathological liar/rabid psychopath/
> pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist/flagrant hypocrite/admitted
> criminal/posturing prat/desperate wanker, cowering behind
> Phil C <trapcl...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> news:drO67.12184$a04....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
> just the pathetic excuse for drunken rant/pathological lying/
> rabid psychopathic ranting/pathetic excuse for a bullshit
> /flagrant hypocrisy/etc etc etc thats all it can ever manage.
Not Rod Speed the Wanker!!
pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist/flagrant hypocrite/admitted
criminal/posturing prat/desperate wanker, cowering behind
"Rod Speed" <rod_...@yahoo.com>
has been trying to 'spew up some sort of puerile shit but everyone has flushed where it belongs.
his posts are just a pathetic excuse for drunken rant/pathological lying/
rabid psychopathic ranting/pathetic excuse for a bullshit
/flagrant hypocrisy/etc etc etc thats all he can ever manage.
What a Wanker ...
Not Rod Speed the Wanker!!
pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist/flagrant hypocrite/admitted
criminal/posturing prat/desperate wanker, cowering behind
"Rod Speed" <rod_...@yahoo.com>
has been trying to 'spew up some sort of puerile shit but everyone has flushed
where it belongs.
his posts are just a pathetic excuse for drunken rant/pathological lying/
rabid psychopathic ranting/pathetic excuse for a bullshit
/flagrant hypocrisy/etc etc etc thats all he can ever manage.
What a Wanker ...
Rod Speed wrote:
> Some pathetic little wogboy claiming to be
> Peter Signorini <pet...@alphalink.com.au> wrote in
> message news:3B5A8764...@alphalink.com.au...
> > Rod Speed wrote
> >> Dave Hayes <dha...@optushome.com.au> wrote
>
> >>> I'm sorry if it offends you Rod,
>
> >> Doesnt 'offend' me, stupid. You stupids never do.
>
> >>> but I'm simply pointing out that I don't believe it's worth swearing your
> >>> head off (Ie, being childish) over your views on how to define a knife.
>
> >> You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly....
>
> > <snip random abuse>
Not Rod Speed the Wanker!!
pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist/flagrant hypocrite/admitted
criminal/posturing prat/desperate wanker, cowering behind
"Rod Speed" <rod_...@yahoo.com>
has been trying to 'spew up some sort of puerile shit but everyone has
flushed where it belongs.
his posts are just a pathetic excuse for drunken rant/pathological
lying/
rabid psychopathic ranting/pathetic excuse for a bullshit
/flagrant hypocrisy/etc etc etc thats all he can ever manage.
What a Wanker ...
Rod Speed wrote:
> Some gutless coward desperately cowering behind
> Sirion <minin...@paradise.com> wrote in message
> news:OQv67.95964$Rr4.4...@ozemail.com.au...
> just the puerile shit that always drops from the back of it.
Not Rod Speed the Wanker!!
pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist/flagrant hypocrite/admitted
criminal/posturing prat/desperate wanker, cowering behind
"Rod Speed" <rod_...@yahoo.com>
has been trying to 'spew up some sort of puerile shit but everyone has flushed
where it belongs.
his posts are just a pathetic excuse for drunken rant/pathological lying/
rabid psychopathic ranting/pathetic excuse for a bullshit
/flagrant hypocrisy/etc etc etc thats all he can ever manage.
What a Wanker ...
Rod Speed wrote:
> Some silly little prat claiming to be
> Dave Hayes <dha...@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
> news:Zjt67.1132$t9....@news1.belrs1.nsw.optushome.com.au...
>
> > I'm sorry if it offends you Rod,
>
> Doesnt 'offend' me, stupid. You stupids never do.
>
> > but I'm simply pointing out that I don't believe it's worth swearing your
> > head off (Ie, being childish) over your views on how to define a knife.
>
> You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly
> irrelevant. What you might or might not claim to believe in spades.
>
> > Calm down and think before you bite someone else's head off
>
> Take your demands and shove them where the sun dont shine, sunshine.
>
> You get no say what so ever on anything at all, ever.
>
> In spades when you arent aware of the history with that fool Calder.
>
> > - it's a discussion, not an argument.
>
> You get no say what so ever on that or anything else, either, ever.
Not Rod Speed the Wanker!!
pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist/flagrant hypocrite/admitted
criminal/posturing prat/desperate wanker, cowering behind
"Rod Speed" <rod_...@yahoo.com>
has been trying to 'spew up some sort of puerile shit but everyone has
flushed where it belongs.
his posts are just a pathetic excuse for drunken rant/pathological
lying/
rabid psychopathic ranting/pathetic excuse for a bullshit
/flagrant hypocrisy/etc etc etc thats all he can ever manage.
What a Wanker ...
Rod Speed wrote:
> Some silly little prat claiming to be
> Dave Hayes <dha...@optushome.com.au> wrote in message
> news:18r67.1121$t9....@news1.belrs1.nsw.optushome.com.au...
> just what you'd expect from a silly little prat.
Not Rod Speed the Wanker!!
pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist/flagrant hypocrite/admitted
criminal/posturing prat/desperate wanker, cowering behind
"Rod Speed" <rod_...@yahoo.com>
has been trying to 'spew up some sort of puerile shit but everyone has flushed where it
belongs.
his posts are just a pathetic excuse for drunken rant/pathological lying/
rabid psychopathic ranting/pathetic excuse for a bullshit
/flagrant hypocrisy/etc etc etc thats all he can ever manage.
What a Wanker ...
Rod Speed wrote:
> Trevor Calder <tre...@REMOVETHISiinet.net.au> wrote in
> message news:3b59a991$0$17...@echo-01.iinet.net.au...
> > Rod Speed <rod_...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >> Trevor Calder <trevor...@my-deja.com> wrote
>
> >>> Well it isn't a dagger for a start. It doesn't have 2 edges.
>
> >> The definition of a dagger in the Victorian legislation doesnt require 2 edges.
>
> > True, but since the knife doesn't have "a needle-like blade, the cross
> > section of which is elliptical or has 3 or more sides" then I suppose
> > the only thing which would apply is "a flat blade with cutting edges
> > (whether serrated or not serrated) along the length of both sides".
>
> The other thing that matters on that is that its spruiked as a 'tactical' knife, stupid.
>
> > So, in this case, the fact that the knife doesn't
> > have 2 edges means it isn't a dagger.
>
> Fraid not.
>
> > Understand now?
>
> Nothing to 'understand'
>
> > You've been caught out again by the facts, Rod.
>
> Even you should be able to bullshit better than that, Calder.
>
> You fucked up completely on the definition of a flick knife in the victorian legislation.
>
> >>> And it's no more a flick knife than any other folding knife.
>
> >> Wrong again.
>
> > Right again.
>
> Wrong again.
>
> >> The definition of a flick knife in the Victorian
> >> legislation doesnt include all folding knives.
>
> > I never said it did - I said that this particular knife didn't fall
> > under the definition of "flick knife" any more than other folders.
>
> I never said you did. You fucked up completely on that
> 'it's no more a flick knife than any other folding knife'
>
> > The definition is "Flick knife, being a knife designed or adapted so that
> > the blade is concealed when folded or recessed into the handle and
> > which opens by gravity or centrifugal force or by any pressure applied
> > to a button, spring or device in or attached to the handle of the knife."
>
> And that particular knife qualifys on that. Quite a few folding knives dont.
>
> > I know some of those words might be a bit long
> > for you, but try reading and understanding it.
>
> Even you should be able to bullshit better than that Calder.
>
> >> There are definitions in the legislation for a reason.
>
> > So you can misunderstand them?
>
> Even you should be able to bullshit better than that Calder.
>
> Cant even manage to read and comprehend that
> definition of a flick knife that that particular knife
> qualifys on. And plenty of other folding knives dont.
>
> Your 'it's no more a flick knife than any other folding knife' is just plain wrong.
>
> As always with you.
Not Rod Speed the Wanker!!
pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist/flagrant hypocrite/admitted
criminal/posturing prat/desperate wanker, cowering behind
"Rod Speed" <rod_...@yahoo.com>
has been trying to 'spew up some sort of puerile shit but everyone has flushed where it belongs.
his posts are just a pathetic excuse for drunken rant/pathological lying/
rabid psychopathic ranting/pathetic excuse for a bullshit
/flagrant hypocrisy/etc etc etc thats all he can ever manage.
What a Wanker ...
Rod Speed wrote:
> Trevor Calder <trevor...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:519bb921.01071...@posting.google.com...
> > Rod Speed <rod_...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >> Jim (from Oz) <ji...@impaq.com.au> wrote
>
> >>> Also I'm not convinced the knife he asked about would be illegal,
>
> >> The definition of a flick knife is very clear in
> >> the Victorian legislation I quoted. Dagger too.
>
> > Well it isn't a dagger for a start. It doesn't have 2 edges.
>
> The definition of a dagger in the Victorian legislation doesnt require 2 edges.
>
> > And it's no more a flick knife than any other folding knife.
>
> Wrong again. The definition of a flick knife in the
> Victorian legislation doesnt include all folding knives.
>