Air NZ and Stoves / Fuel Bottles
David Springthorpe
but.....
A club member recently returning to SYD from CHC (by QANTAS) noted
that over at the Air NZ check-in at CHC they were coming down
particularly heavily on Shellite / methylated spirit stoves and their
fuel bottles, to the extent that used gear was being refused carriage
on international flights even after being flushed out if even a whiff
of residual fumes were detected (I'm hearing this second hand, so some
details may not be perfect). Apparently this follows a recent
incident.
Anyone had a similar problem lately ?
Another club member has taken up the whole question of carrying stoves
etc. on airlines with a representative of Ansett responsible for
"carriage of dangerous goods", who just happened to be about to travel
to NZ, and who became keenly interested in the problem (but not
originally aware of the extent to which stoves probably are carried on
airlines), and who was going to discuss the subject over there with
Air NZ, hopefully to eventually arrive at some clearer common
policy.....
D.S.,
CMW of NSW Inc.
David Springthorpe
Springthorpe) wrote:
>Yes, I know this subject gets a regular and thorough thrashing here,
>but.....
Excuse my abominable sentence structure.....
D.S.
HighLife
I flew AirNZ from Melb to CHCH, with my empty, aired and rinsed fuel bottle
in my hand luggage which was x-rayed as I went through customs here in Melb
and they didnt even blink an eye - (but they pulled my brother up who was
right behind me for his lock blade pocket knife).
On the return flight again with AirNZ from CHCH to Melb, I was going through
customs and not expecting any trouble but they made me unpack my hand
luggage to inspect my MSR Whisperlite after it appeared on the x-ray
machine. They asked where the fuel bottle was - I had packed it in with my
checked in baggage. There was talk for a minute or so that they were not
going to let me on with the stove pump!
Eventually they took my brother down to the plane (while I repacked my hand
luggage), pulled all the baggage out of the planes cargo hold, as ours was
about the first to go on, till they found my empty rinsed fuel bottle and
then said that they had to confiscate it and burn it! The baggage handlers
couldnt believe it, just for an empty fuel bottle!
I said that I was told it was ok as long as it had been aired and rinsed.
Customs said that that was the policy with other airlines but AirNZ had just
brought in a rule that nothing that has been used to contain fuel is allowed
on the plane!
I was extremely pissed off and suprised as I'd expect that a lot of people
heading to the Sth Island of NZ would be bringing fuel stoves with them -
they would have to buy a new fuel bottle on arriving and then discard it
before they leave!
So if your planning on taking your MSR or similar stove to NZ on Air NZ -
stash the bottle in your checked in luggage and dont tell them its there!
Or do as I will in future - dont fly AirNZ.
Cheers
Jase
http://www.geocities.com/getting_high2000/
David Springthorpe <david.spr...@idx.com.au> wrote in message
news:3aa76076...@news.idx.com.au...
Bernard Smith
news:3aaa...@news.alphalink.com.au...
>
> So if your planning on taking your MSR or similar stove to NZ on Air
NZ -
> stash the bottle in your checked in luggage and dont tell them its
there!
Or fill it with water and call it a water bottle!
Tasio Sclavenitis
to be less vigilant. If you don't want the grief from AirNZ don't fly them
heres a few hints. MSR type fuel bottles and sigg waterbottles are almost
identical apart from the colour of the paint. Does that give you any ideas?
When your bag gets scanned, they see the shape of the bottle in the xray.
nalgene bottles are not as conspicuous.
Don't pack the fuel stove, bottle and fuel pump together. There are good
reasons why airlines prohibit various articles, just by the way, If you do
decide to take your fuel bottle and sneak it through, make sure it has no
fuel OR residue. The reason why they don't like them even if you can smell
the fuel is it is explosive in its vapour state, not the liquid. Fuel
bottles with fuel vapour that are close to empty are the most prone to
explosion.
Perhaps we should all consider shelling out for a new fuel bottle and fuel
at the destination, and make tat one of the things we research prior to
departure.
David Springthorpe
Springthorpe) wrote:
>Another club member has taken up the whole question of carrying stoves
>etc. on airlines with a representative of Ansett responsible for
>"carriage of dangerous goods", who just happened to be about to travel
>to NZ, and who became keenly interested in the problem (but not
>originally aware of the extent to which stoves probably are carried on
>airlines), and who was going to discuss the subject over there with
>Air NZ, hopefully to eventually arrive at some clearer common
>policy.....
I will report back if I get some feedback fom this, or you may see it
in the NSW Confederation web site / magazine (I'm told) - just don't
expect anything swift.....
D.S.
HighLife
Tasio Sclavenitis <ta...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:7hkq6.11808$v5.5...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
>The reason why they don't like them even if you can smell
> the fuel is it is explosive in its vapour state, not the liquid. Fuel
> bottles with fuel vapour that are close to empty are the most prone to
> explosion.
I was told that any container that had contained fuel is not allowed - even
after rinsing and airing. They said the other airlines allow it but not
AirNZ as of a few months ago.
> Perhaps we should all consider shelling out for a new fuel bottle and fuel
> at the destination, and make tat one of the things we research prior to
> departure.
I researched prior to departure - checked the baggage regulations on the
AirNZ website and asked a few people who'd flown with their fuel bottles and
they'd told me its fine as long as its empty, rinsed and aired.
Unfortunatley no one told customs in CHCH this! Customs even said to me that
they are not sure if AirNZ had gone to any lengths to inform passengers
about the new no fuel container rule! They must catch a few people out I'd
imagine.
Jase
Mylorace
>> at the destination, and make tat one of the things we research prior to
>> departure.
At Last ! some sense on the matter.
Peter Signorini
Mylorace wrote:
???
Doesn't this idea seem kind of a waste to you? Of money (small beer, I know) and
resources.
An awful lot more aluminium will be going into landfill as a result.
Peter
PeteM
> So if your planning on taking your MSR or similar stove to NZ on Air NZ -
> stash the bottle in your checked in luggage and dont tell them its there!
>
> Or do as I will in future - dont fly AirNZ.
Or maybe you SHOULD fly AirNZ. At least we know that they don't take any
chances with safety.
Mylorace
>and
>resources.
>
>An awful lot more aluminium will be going into landfill as a result.
>
>Peter
Dont know why I am bothering to reply to such a small minded thinker as you
appear,
however: 1. The cost is almost negeleble.
2. Landfill ? what landfill, have 2 or give the old one away.
The real reason is the Danger of having fumey bottles in cargo holds of
aircraft, have you
any idea of what an efective bomb a fumey fuel bottle is ?
add that to the dodgey aircraft used by some carriers in overseas walking
locations India, Napal,
or even Ansett, and you have a scenario that I would rather not be in, all
caused by cheepskates,
who won't buy a new bottle now and then.
Still dont know why I have just wasted 5 minutes explaining that to you.
Mylo.
Glen F
>
> ???
>
> Doesn't this idea seem kind of a waste to you? Of money (small beer,
> I know) and resources.
Given the scale of the international backpacker trade, airlines
around the world must carry at least a few thousand of these things
a DAY. That's say a million or more a year - Most presumably not
washed out / aired / water filled etc, etc.
Now if there was really a problem, you'd expect to see some reports
of crashes / serious incidents attributed to backpacker fuel bottles.
Just where are they all? Is there an airline conspiracy to cover up?
Or is this just brainless regulation, as usual??
matt
> Dont know why I am bothering to reply to such a small minded thinker as you
> appear, however: 1. The cost is almost negeleble. 2. Landfill ? what
> landfill, have 2 or give the old one away. The real reason is the Danger of
> having fumey bottles in cargo holds of aircraft, have you any idea of what
> an efective bomb a fumey fuel bottle is ?
I know whom most people would consider the small minded thinker is in this
argument.
How does a bottle that has been washed, opened, even filled with water
constitute a danger? (If someone can categorically explain the dangers, and
then compare the risk factor against all the other risks involved with flying
I'd love to know). It isn't the cost that would annoy me, but the sheer
stupidity and futility of it. Sure, if someone rocks up with a half full
bottle of fuel, then they need reeducation via a large lump of wood, but
that's not the point here.
What scares me in this is that these rules are put down by airlines who really
should know better. Heck, the things they send up in the air have a bit of
science about them, but they tend to forget all that stuff when in comes to
the passengers.
matt.
who will continue to fly with washed fuel bottles packed in his luggage.
Julia
of borrowing/hire system over in NZ. Maybe some kind of fuel bottle club - buy a
few bottles over there, find a nice person to look after them, and any Aussies
(or whoever really) heading over to NZ can pay a small fee (to pay for
replacement/repair), use the bottle(s), and then take them back to the "bottle
club". No fuel bottle to take home, no need to purchase and discard new bottles
each time....
Not quite sure who would be able to do this though - just a thought!
Julia
Matthew Palmer
Perhaps NZ camping shops could set up some sort of "fuel bottle exchange"
scheme, where you buy a fuel bottle and get a little ticket with it, and
then you can take the fuel bottle and ticket back to any other camping store
in the country (or some subset thereof) and get a refund of some portion of
the price, assuming that the bottle wasn't beaten to shit.
I can understand the mentality of the airline - if they let an improperly
washed and aired bottle onto the plane and then something happened, it would
be their problem, not the idiot who didn't clean his bottle out properly.
I agree that tossing a fuel bottle at the end of a week or month or whatever
is a waste. But the dangers of a mid-air explosion are real, and I'm sure
you wouldn't want to be sitting in the aircraft that it happened on. Air
safely regulations are there for a reason, and we should not try to get
around them for our convenience sake. We just need to come up with a
smarter way of recreating.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
#include <disclaimer.h>
Matthew Palmer
mj...@ieee.uow.edu.au
Steve Robertson
bottle well, then fills it with water, and IS PREPARED TO DRINK FROM IT.
It's in his hand luggage.
I have certainly had this problem, and as a result now use either gas or
Trangia in NZ. Just came back yesterday from 10 days in the Wilkins/Young
area of the South Island. We had a Trangia and two gas stoves. This seemed
to be a good combination. Three of us only used 2x220g of gas and something
like 500 ml of meths, and we were certainly not being frugal. We use the
Trangia for meals, and the gas for soup, brews, and the occasional rice.
Steve
"David Springthorpe" <david.spr...@idx.com.au> wrote in message
news:3aa76076...@news.idx.com.au...
Jim (from Oz)
<steve.r...@anu.edu.au> wrote:
>One friend resprayed his fuel bottle something other than red, rinses the
>bottle well, then fills it with water, and IS PREPARED TO DRINK FROM IT.
>It's in his hand luggage.
Sorry if I'm out of order people 'cause I've just jumped in in the
middle of this thread but; if empty and washed fuel containers
are so dangerous on aircraft, one has to wonder about all that
good whiskey, vodka etc being carried in both the cabin and
the hold??
Jim (from Oz)
HighLife
to buy to take on the plane with you from duty free shops.
I wouldnt have had that much of a problem with the 'no fuel container' rule
if I had of known about it before they took mine off me to get burned! I
asked around, checked the baggage restrictions on the website and thought I
was doing the right thing - flew it over to NZ on AirNZ no problem and it
wasnt until I was returning that they pulled all the luggage off the plane
to retrieve my bottle.
If I had of known I would have arranged to borrow a bottle on arriving in NZ
instead of sacrificing one I borrowed off a mate before I left.
Jase
peter mccann
it could still be dangerous, Why don't the customs ppl just hold a match
over each fuel bottle just to make it safe b4 they are loaded onto planes :)
Alan Hogg
"peter mccann" <peter...@optushome.com.au> wrote:
It is not only AirNZ that refuses to take empty and clean fuel bottles. I
had the same problem with Ansett flying to Chch.
I spoke with their safety officer and he said that Ansett refuses to carry
them because environmental laws in NZ disallow the emptying of white
spirits etc down the drains. Carrying empty fuel bottles would encourage
this.
Carrying fuel bottles, clean or not, on airlines, is not a new problem. As
Steve Robertson has said, the only sure fix to to use gas or methos when
flying to tramping destinations.
Cheers,
Alan Hogg
David Duffy
> It is not only AirNZ that refuses to take empty and clean fuel bottles. I
> had the same problem with Ansett flying to Chch.
> I spoke with their safety officer and he said that Ansett refuses to carry
> them because environmental laws in NZ disallow the emptying of white
> spirits etc down the drains. Carrying empty fuel bottles would encourage
> this.
This is a specious argument on their part -- there will be just as many
gas cartridges and as much leftover fuel discarded in NZ whether
foreigners bring the containers with them or not. WRT safety, if the
bottle is full of water so that there is no airspace for a fuel-air
vapour mix to form in, then there can't be a risk. I do think a
petrol-air mixture will be slightly more explosive than alcohol-air
mixture ;)
--
| David Duffy. ,-_|\
| email: dav...@qimr.edu.au ph: INT+61+7+3362-0217 fax: -0101 / *
| Epidemiology Unit, The Queensland Institute of Medical Research \_,-._/
| 300 Herston Rd, Brisbane, Queensland 4029, Australia v
Dzung Nguyen
> Air NZ is particularly stringent about fuel bottles,
don't know. Flew in Air NZ about 9 years ago therefore can't remember.
Get an idea now.
> the other airlines tend to be less vigilant.
Agree. Flew in Quantas to/from Chch NZ in Feb-Mar'00 &
Dec-Jan '00-'01 and had no trouble.
> If you don't want the grief from AirNZ don't fly them
> heres a few hints. MSR type fuel bottles and sigg waterbottles are almost
> identical apart from the colour of the paint. Does that give you any ideas?
> When your bag gets scanned, they see the shape of the bottle in the xray.
> nalgene bottles are not as conspicuous.
You come up with a great idea here.
> Don't pack the fuel stove, bottle and fuel pump together. There are good
> reasons why airlines prohibit various articles, just by the way, If you do
> decide to take your fuel bottle and sneak it through, make sure it has no
> fuel OR residue. The reason why they don't like them even if you can smell
> the fuel is it is explosive in its vapour state, not the liquid. Fuel
> bottles with fuel vapour that are close to empty are the most prone to
> explosion.
Understandable. The NZ Customs Service is one of the Government's
border protection agencies. Just do their responsibilities..
> Perhaps we should all consider shelling out for a new fuel bottle and fuel
> at the destination, and make tat one of the things we research prior to
> departure.
I used trangia in NZ. Purchased one litre meths bottle at supermarket.
Wonder if the 500ml sized meths bottle was not made.
Here is my tactics at the airport Melbourne to/from ChCh.
If you are not sure - declare it!
after collecting your baggage, quickly Go to Red Ways Out to queue up.
Have the items such as boots, gaiters, pack cover (already clean, of course),
and food products (if extra) READILY AVAILABLE
told Customs Officer that nights were spent in DOC huts/didn't use tent.
Happy Tramping
Dzung
.
Bruce Graham
confiscate my washed and empty meths bottle! I kicked up a BIG fuss. Tell me how
a now water filled container that once held meths is a fire risk. The little
Hitler confiscating empty and washed and aired fuel bottles from the overseas
tourists was doing real damage to the Qantas share price and our tourist
industry. If he was concerned for air safety he should have been looking for real
issues.
BTW the reason I was using a Trangia for the trip was to avoid any hassles with
fuel/air safety concerns. I can't think of any other reason for using a big slow
cooking fuel guzzler.
Bruce Graham
David Springthorpe
<"bushw(nospam)ng"@jeack.com.au> wrote:
>don't know. Flew in Air NZ about 9 years ago therefore can't remember.
>Get an idea now.
>
>Agree. Flew in Quantas to/from Chch NZ in Feb-Mar'00 &
>Dec-Jan '00-'01 and had no trouble.
Please note I'm talking talking very specifically about Air NZ, and at
the present time.....
I know I'm being picky, but it's spelled Qantas, an acronym for
Queensland And Northern Territory Air Service.....
D.S.
David Springthorpe
<steve.r...@anu.edu.au> wrote:
>One friend resprayed his fuel bottle something other than red, rinses the
>bottle well, then fills it with water, and IS PREPARED TO DRINK FROM IT.
>It's in his hand luggage.
>
>I have certainly had this problem, and as a result now use either gas or
>Trangia in NZ. Just came back yesterday from 10 days in the Wilkins/Young
>area of the South Island. We had a Trangia and two gas stoves. This seemed
>to be a good combination. Three of us only used 2x220g of gas and something
>like 500 ml of meths, and we were certainly not being frugal. We use the
>Trangia for meals, and the gas for soup, brews, and the occasional rice.
>
>Steve
Do I detect a "MSR versus Trangias and Others" sub-thread coming
on.....?
D.S.
Tony
Peter Signorini
Mylorace wrote:
> Dont know why I am bothering to reply to such a small minded thinker as you
> appear,
> caused by cheepskates,
> who won't buy a new bottle now and then.
Well thanks for the lovely comments!
However, I see a simple solution to avoid this problem, but I am led to believe
the airlines won't wear it. Wash the fuel bottle then fill it with water - I'm
sure this is not a potential bomb. Does any one know if this will get the OK
And at $30 or whatever for a new fuel bottle each journey, I guess I am a
_cheap_skate.
Peter
Peter Signorini
tyres down when flying, not just a litle reduced, but dead flat. The difference
between sea level air pressure and space is 16 psi, and the luggage compartments
are part pressurised. My bike tyres are easily able to hold 100 psi, so a
variation of something less than 16 psi is frankly immaterial. The tyres would
need 150-200 psi to blow off the rim!
There would be more damage to my rims from dropping than is likely from any
fantasy tyre blowout.
steve waters
flying back from NZ..!!)..i had a coleman stove with me (no seperate fuel
bottle)...i flew wellie to melly on Polynesian (no advance purchase crap, really
nice little airline)...when asked about the stove i just said i had drained it
and washed it and they seemed happy with that explanation, without wanting a
visual...(it was true..well, the draining bit anyway)....but i suspect wellington
airport might be more lax (airline pun?) than others...at Nelson (sth island) 2
years ago they actually had facilities for emptying your fuel out...with diff
containers for meths, shellite, kero etc stored in a bldg away from the
terminal...however, after rinsing my coleman out and not replacing with fuel when
i landed, the generator rusted out...and i didnt realise until a few months later
when i was in a snowcave on ruapehu wondering why it wouldnt light.,....next time
i get a stove, it will be one with a separate fuel bottle!!
Glen F
> Queensland And Northern Territory Air Service.....
Ahem - Think you'll find it's "... Aerial Service"
David Springthorpe
I had a niggedly feeling I was not quite right when I said it, but too
lazy to check.....
Apparently the old TAA stood for Try Another Airline.....
D.S.