Bicycles can be carried on V/Line train services in off peak periods.
Understanding that there is limited space on peak hour trains, bicycles will
not be permitted on peak hour train services.
We advise that even on off peak train services there is limited space for
Bicycles are generally not permitted on V/Line coach services.
Apparently it is being introduced on the Connex metropolitan services also,
for Zone 1.
In this era of climate change action, how emminently stupid!!
~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)
Beyond that! I believe and expect this can be battled, lobbied and defeated fairly
easily. Can somebody post a list of names, positions and their address for
decision makers behind this. Start with ministers. Hassle. Is Bicycle Victoria
on the case? Announcements just prior to Xmas can be smashed easily.
Classic drop the dead donkey time. Announce it as a fait accompli,
while everyone is on hols or dealing with holiday timetables or couldn't
give a FF.
Transport Minister (even though she didn't want the portfolio)
Lynne Kosky, MP
PO Box 1047
Altona Meadows VIC 3028
Ph (03) 9360 7500
Fax (03) 9360 7654
Road Minister (for good measure)
Hon. Tim Pallas, MP
Minister for Roads and Ports
Department of Infrastructure
Level 16/121 Exhibition Street,
Melbourne Vic 3000
Phone: 03 9655 6210
Fax: 03 9655 6651
PO Box 426
Collins St West, Victoria, 8007
Situated at Level 10 / 446 Collins Street,
Melbourne, Victoria 3000
Ph (03) 8636 8888
Fax (03) 8636 8800
Freecall 1800 639 634 (country callers)
GPO Box 5092BB
Melbourne VIC 3001
Ph: 1 800 800 705
7 days a week, 6am - 10pm
Online contact form:
Public Transport Ombudsman (Victoria)
PO Box 538
Collins Street West VIC 8007
1800 466 865 or 8623 2111
TTY: 1800 809 623
Fax: 8623 2100
Reply Paid 5343,
Melbourne VIC 3001
Phone: 1800 800 120
TTY (03) 9619 2727 available 7 days
Online contact form:
Department of Infrastructure
GPO Box 2797
Melbourne Vic 3001
Tel. (03) 9655 6666
Fax. (03) 9655 6752
Public transport contacts; This page lists contact details for
inquiries and feedback about public transport.
Give them an alternative. Don't know what the procedure was before,
in Sydney bikes are charged child fare if they travel in "peak times":
"Bicycles are permitted on trains free of charge on the weekend and in
off-peak periods. However, if part or all of your journey is made
between 6.00am - 9.00am or between 3.30pm to 7.30pm on weekdays you
must purchase a child ticket for the bicycle as well as a ticket for
If bikes were free before then say banning them is silly but cyclists
are happy to contribute to the costs.
If they wern't free before, then I suspect you are going to be pushing
shit uphill because of the crowding in Vic trains. Perhaps try the
idea of only banned on the last 3 stops into the city?
Any bike friendly journos in Victoria? [No, I didn't think so... ...well, maybe].
"cfsmtb" <cfsmtb...@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote in message news:cfsmtb...@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com...
Never mind climate change, are they going to apply those rules to prams and
wheelchairs as well?
Already a Facebook group - Screw Connex and their ban on bike's. Plenty
of discussion elsewhere on the BV forums, CM-Melb and Melbourne Cyclist.
There's rumours/noises that BV didn't oppose the ban, this is yet to be
confirmed or denied. I asked a PTUA contact yesterday about this issue,
they've confirmed what was said to me in todays Herald-Sun (20/12) -
they oppose the ban. Read page 8.
Interesting, a PT lobby group oppose the ban, but Victoria largest
bicycle group didn't (at this point)
> Give them an alternative. Don't know what the procedure was before,
> in Sydney bikes are charged child fare if they travel in "peak times":
> "Bicycles are permitted on trains free of charge on the weekend and in
> off-peak periods. However, if part or all of your journey is made
> between 6.00am - 9.00am or between 3.30pm to 7.30pm on weekdays you
> must purchase a child ticket for the bicycle as well as a ticket for
And that gets my goat as well. To travel on a train (interurban) with
my bike, I need to squeeze it into the end of a carriage. If bogans
haven't already crowded in there for a durrie. This area isn't wide
enough to park my bike against a wall or door, it has to be diagonal.
On most carriages, only one end has even that much space. They do have
hangers, in some carriages... which are fine if you don't mind having
the inter carriage doors being slammed into your pride and joy on a
regular basis as passengers wander through.
Doors open on different sides, so if you rest your bike against a
door, you have to leap up and shift it every so often (OK, I only have
this problem for one station, then it's consistent). But you can't
leave your bike anyway - the trains rock enough for bikes to fall
over, or your bike could leave with someone else. >:^( You can't lock
it it in place because of the need to keep moving it.
So, I stand the entire trip, politely shifting my bike to assist other
passengers, and they expect me to pay extra? They don't charge extra
for a pram. They don't charge extra for huge travel bags. They don't
charge extra for other luggage. Why bikes? I guess I wouldn't mind
paying if they actually provided a service that allowed for bikes, but
they don't. A ticket should entitle me to that.
> So, I stand the entire trip, politely shifting my bike to assist other
> passengers, and they expect me to pay extra? They don't charge extra
> for a pram. They don't charge extra for huge travel bags. They don't
> charge extra for other luggage. Why bikes? I guess I wouldn't mind
> paying if they actually provided a service that allowed for bikes, but
> they don't. A ticket should entitle me to that.
Cityrail here in sydney has a little loophole, normally they allow bikes
allround, but during peak hour, you need to purchase a child ticket for your
bike as well.
Unless it's in a bike bag, in which case it's luggage, so they don't charge
you anything. I suppose this is only viable if you have a fold-up bike though.
Just goes to show, they appear to hate cyclists more than the morons who are
happy to cart around their 40Kg luggage from the airport.
Linux Registered User # 302622
> On V/Line trains, bikes will be banned at peak hour from January 1
> because of patronage growth.
> "We need to make as much space as possible available for people,"
> V/Line spokesman Daniel Moloney said.
> But the Public Transport Users Association slammed the move.
> "Bikes should be part of the solution to our public transport
> problems," president Daniel Bowen said.
Daniel Bowen eh? I used to read his "Toxic Custard Workshop Files" (or
whatever it was called) emails when I was in university, waaay back
before the days of the world wide wibble. His world history series was
very entertaining, it's worth a read if you can find it.
> Unless it's in a bike bag, in which case it's luggage, so they don't charge
> you anything.
I wonder how much of your bike you need to have enclosed in a token
"bag" in order for it to class as luggage?
"It's not a bike, it's a suitcase with wheels! I use it to carry...
They specifically say it applies to folding bicycles. I have heard
from various people, none of whom work for Cityrail, that even a
folder in a bag on your lap has to be paid for.
Is Dutchy still resident at BV?
> I wonder how much of your bike you need to have enclosed in a token
> "bag" in order for it to class as luggage?
As long as the people who work there can't tell the difference, (and while
some have a brain, lots don't).
> "It's not a bike, it's a suitcase with wheels! I use it to carry...
> bike parts!"
:-) It's all in the definition of the classification.
Interesting part, is that they don't appear to be too concerned about
scooters, nor the ones who carry home new TV antennas in their boxes. These
things are so long you need to fit them in diagonally through the doors to
make it fit.
All "luggage", even though a bike takes up less room.
Also no mention of the sneezing ones who spread their good charm around in
Neither of the one that I had seen tear off the "no alcohol" sticker, then
proceed to pull out a beer and drink it.
Nor the one who insisted on conversing with the person next to him- VERY
LOUDLY. And thought that f*ucking football would be a good subject instead of
the weather. Interesting that person next to him wasn't interested either.
Of course, I can't forget the high school formalers coming home (while I was
going to work in the morning), who had the collective IQ of a box of
handlebars. I had to change carriages to prevent my own IQ from dropping.
> They specifically say it applies to folding bicycles. I have heard
> from various people, none of whom work for Cityrail, that even a
> folder in a bag on your lap has to be paid for.
So all those times (years?) I was going to work with a backpack (sometimes
two bags) I was technically travelling short of a ticket for my bag(s).
F*ck 'em. If they can't be reasonable, neither can I.
Same chap. had a blog when the term haven't even been coined. ;)
Bollox. Ain't fourth hand info grand? :rolleyes:
So unusual for the PTUA to swallow V-Line's, err, line ;)
We knew nothing of the V-Line ban.
There had been discussions that bikes may be banned in Zone 1, peak
direction during peak-hour on metro trains, Although timings were not
given for this introduction it was a mute point as trying to get oneself
and a cut lunch on said trains is near impossible, let alone with
Holland, Germany and many other Euro countries have had similar rules
in place for a few years (some many years...) and provide good parking
Longer term that is a more practical solution. refer Eltham and Sth
Geelong Bike parking cage trials on BV website.
Well if that's been cleared up, please inform the BV forum first:
> cfsmtb Wrote:
>> There's rumours/noises that BV didn't oppose the ban
> Bollox. Ain't fourth hand info grand? :rolleyes:
> So unusual for the PTUA to swallow V-Line's, err, line ;)
> We knew nothing of the V-Line ban.
Yes, but then it seems you rolled over pretty smartly, even swallowing
V-line's lie that not all trains have luggage space! Utter bollocks!
> Holland, Germany and many other Euro countries have had similar rules
> in place for a few years (some many years...) and provide good parking
> at stations.
And they provide excellent long distance trains with plenty of bike
carriage space. German ICE trains half the whole half of the font carriage
for bikes, seperated by a glass/perspex partition from passenger seats. It
can be done, if their is a political will. Or doesn't BV care?
Not happy Jan.
Remove norubbish to reply
All right then, I'll follow this up with the PTUA again & duly inform
them of your professional opinion of them. :)
The PTUA are taking comments re VLine's 'lines' ???
PS it's spelt 'MISinform'
BV's response a week ago was that they had heard the rumour but
couldn't do anything about it - they suggested to CC them in on any
correspondence to VLine and they could then follow this up.
I've spoke to some of Conductors, and a number say they won't enforce
it, but some might. The bike/luggage bays on the new trains will be
empty for most of the day!
I have a 25min bike ride to work from the station (no public
transport) and I don't even have the option of keeping a bike at the
Station (St Albans) as there are only 6 lockers and they were snapped
up when built (people paid $75 and its permanently theirs until they
don't want it anymore).
And there are no early non peak trains in the morning - earliest I
could get to work is about 10:40am!
Time to write some objectionable letters/emails - Too bad Lynne Kosky
doesn't like being bothered unless it's important!
It's getting decidedly more unclear what exactly is occurring, the PTUA
oppose the banning of bicycles on peak hour services, then BV alter some
of the web pages, which incidentally don't clarify really what
should/could be done.
Ditto childish diatribes being posted by a known BV staffer, when all
people are asking for is clarification and advocacy from a organisation
who apparently represent bicycle riders in Victoria. Go figure?
> Just goes to show, they appear to hate cyclists more than the morons
> who are happy to cart around their 40Kg luggage from the airport.
John, beg to differ. They are not morons. They are socially and
environmentally aware travellers. I'm sure we would all prefer them to
catch a train than use a car (or even a taxi).
And nobody carries 40Kg of luggage for a plane flight unless they really
have to (and can afford it). That would cost almost as much as an extra
True... but why on earth 20kg of clothes in a large suitcase?!?!
I flew to QLD from Vic on work this week and my suitcase was small
enough to go on as carry on luggage and weighed about 3kg. On that
basis I could carry almost 2 months worth of clothes in 20kg... and yes
I changed each day, and no I didn't wash clothes up there.
> True... but why on earth 20kg of clothes in a large suitcase?!?!
> I flew to QLD from Vic on work this week and my suitcase was small
> enough to go on as carry on luggage and weighed about 3kg. On that
> basis I could carry almost 2 months worth of clothes in 20kg... and yes
> I changed each day, and no I didn't wash clothes up there.
I felt I should explain my figures since they appear to be in dispute.
While I *did* pluck that number out of the air, I really don't know how
heavy any particular person wants to travel. Personally, I do it light, but
after hearing about how a family friend did it overseas, I changed my mind on
what heavy could be.
Staying overseas for about three months, she had lots of... hair.
Hairspray was big in that era. Had to carry three months worth of clothes
(couldn't have herself wearing the same outfit twice!), along with three
months worth of hairspray too. Not travelling to a third world country- far
from it, but couldn't risk running out just in case. ...Just too important...
Paid hundreds of dollars in weight charges.
This is of no consequence because daddy was paying for it.
May not be all they have.
I have flown with easy 30kg of stuff. A few clothes and a bunch of
camping and fighting gear.
ObBicycle: Apparently you can fit a stick type bent into a bike box, you just
have to get creative... Alternatively there are people who are
cutting their frames and joining them with S&S couplers. I dunno I'd
ever be travelling *that* much.
> For those in Victoria, who use the country trains to commute longer
> distances, or just travel to the country occasionally, some bad news fro
> Bicycles can be carried on V/Line train services in off peak periods.
> Understanding that there is limited space on peak hour trains, bicycles will
> not be permitted on peak hour train services.
> We advise that even on off peak train services there is limited space for
> Bicycles are generally not permitted on V/Line coach services.
> Apparently it is being introduced on the Connex metropolitan services also,
> for Zone 1.
> In this era of climate change action, how emminently stupid!!
Queensland used to ban bicycles completely from urban services so we
held a protest at a railway station. About 100 cyclists turned up, 10
with full-sized cardboard cut outs of bicycles.
While buskers played "Ticket to Ride" we lined up and asked alternately
for tickets for our bikes then our full sized cardboard cut outs of
bikes. Of course the railway workers had been warned in advance not to
let the bikes on the railway platform. Police milled around as the
cyclists were turned away at the gate, while the full sized cardboard
cut out carrying cyclists were allowed through. The successful
protesters did a full sized cardboard cutout of bicycle lift, a la
Critical Mass, displaying their protest slogans to the media while the
dejected real cyclists looked on forlornly.
Everyone felt the protest was a success, the police were amused, the TV
had plenty of visuals and the cyclists had a moral victory.
Within weeks every political party in Qld except the Nationals had it as
part of their policy to allow bikes on trains. We got a face to face
meeting with the minister on the issue, but didn't convince him. Good
negotiators would have I think. The Nationals lost government at the
next election, no doubt because they were being so intransigent to
cyclists. Fitzgerald had nothing to do with it.
Six months later you could take your bike on an off peak train in
Brisbane as you could in other cities, free of charge too. I think the
service has been extended to peak periods in recent years, against the
peak flow. Brisbane has much smaller trains than Melbourne so I can't
see what the problem would be down there.
It worked that time. Something to keep in mind if they remain pig
I know I'm gonna be glad,
I know it's today, yeah.
This law that's driving me mad,
it's going away, yeah.
We've got a ticket to ride
We've got a ticket to ride
We've got a ticket to ride
But VR don't care
Sounds like something Senator George Georges could of had a hand in,
i.e.: protest with humour! Thanks for the jaunty tune, no doubt it will
be swiftly paraphrased for later use in Victoria. ;)
So.........because some peak hour(s) trains are crowded, then BV is
perhaps justified in not opposing the ban? Sometimes, I want / need
to catch train home after riding into work (or catch train to work and
ride home). I don't want to leave bike at a station and this is
certainly not an alternative to catching a train with the bike. Plenty
of peak hour trains have space for bikes, and if rear or forward
carriages were designated bike carriages, then most, if not all trains
could cope with the few bikes that need to be on the train. There is
always plenty of standing room on trains if only passengers were
'encouraged' to use it. BV.....bloody vacuous
Spokesman John Rees said performance should improve once the problems
were resolved and drivers became more familiar with the route.
What a great excuse for trains being late !!!!!.. Which other route can
they take ?
And VLine still have not replied to my query about the ban!
Did anyone see the bad press VLine got on the ABC news last night when
the trains to Geelong were overcrowded on Xmas day and the cyclist who
recorded it and put it on UTube!
FYI the link to the YouTube video
"... V-Line's Ursuala McGuinness says the services were more popular
than expected, particularly on the Geelong line. "We apologise that
maybe we weren't running enough services for the people who wanted to
travel and that's why we're going to review that for next year," she said."
and the local rag
V/LINE has apologised to commuters who missed Christmas Day celebrations
with family because of overcrowding on Geelong-bound trains.
The rail operator yesterday said ``unanticipated demand'' on the Geelong
line had caused disruptions that prevented some people from reaching
their Christmas Day destinations.
Peak-hour bike ban plan for trains sparks outcry
Vote here* - Poll in left hand column below article headlines:
Overall a good pro-bicycle article, although the typical HS readers
have lost none of their talent for inventing strawman arguments and
disappearing off at convoluted tangents.
(*Vote early, vote often)
Apart from the usual pollies and media to voice your opposition to the
ban, anyone opposed to the bicycle ban should contact Adrian Webb
(Victorian Fare Policy Manager, Dept of Infrastructure). He's dealing
with the objections to the ban.
Ph 9095 4626 & email Adria...@doi.vic.gov.au.
He seemed like a nice enough fellow and seemed genuinely sorry about
the cyclists who are caught up in the ban and don't have a public
transport option at one or both ends of the train.
He said that Bicycle Victoria was told on the 3rd of August of the
proposed bike bans, and the idea was to bring in the policy softly
softly in the New Year with a grace period for cyclists. But because
people started complaining about the ban when they found out in Dec 07
and the PTUA also objected, the govt had no choice but to say the ban
would be enforced immediately. So basically it's our fault for
objecting to the ban!!!
I can't believe how short sighted the govt was to think that no one
would object to the ban if they didn't tell anyone about it in the
first place (apart from Bicycle Victoria - No wonder they have been
very quiet on the matter - and when I rang them on the 12th Dec 07
they said that they had only heard the rumour and they hadn't received
Adrian suggested that there would be a grace period for bikes (at
least on V/Line) but couldn't say for how long or if at all. Appears
to be up to V/Line to decide.
Anyway, please ph and email Adrian to voice your opposition and make
sure you also contact your local MP and local papers to protest/
letters to the editor, oh and V/Line for what its worth! Adrian
confirmed that V/Line is still govt owned and run by a separate govt
Adrian agreed that it was unacceptable that I still haven't received a
reply from V/Line from the 12 Dec 07 regarding the bike ban and that
the customer service staff knew nothing about the ban right up until
after Christmas (and probably still don't know much about it - I was
told on the 28 Dec 07 to check the website for information on the ban
and that they didn't have any other information).
> Hi all,
> I'm contacting you as we need to get organised action happening on
> these bicycle bans.
> Otherwise I envisage a lot of time, energy and potential being lost and
> the State Government getting away with more PR spin.
> Here's a discussion on 'Melbourne Cyclist' (http://tinyurl.com/ytlg5l)
> with more background, updates, media links etc.
> A couple of points:
> - Should the public campaign remain as is, i.e.: concerned people
> writing separately to the State Government, Connex & V/Line
> - Or should a timeline/campaign be organised so we can maximise our
> effectiveness and outcomes?
> - Should a proposed campaign keep the focus on bicycle access, or
> should we broaden the focus to include making note of improving PT
> access for all?
> - Should a proposed campaign also include a call out to other groups
> who also share similar goals for improving PT provision?
> Further action:
> - Call a informal meeting so we can meet face to face and discuss our
> - For people with restrictions (ie: family, work, study, live metro,
> rural etc) , possibly a meeting via a conference call or on Skype?
> Mailing list:
> A public transport discussion list has been created so people can keep
> in touch. To subscribe, simply follow the ''subscribing to
> publictransport form'
> Ok all the stuff mentioned above is a pretty broad brush, your thoughts
THe Brisbane campaign of people with cardboard bicycles able to board
and people with real ones not able to would be a good photo op.