distracting light
F Murtz
An extremely bright light (bluish tint) blinking on the front of a
bicycle.This headlight was bright enough to be very distracting during
the day.It kept me distracted for a few hundred yards till I found it
was a bicycle.It is all very well for riders to try and be visible but
not to be shining bright blinking distracting lights in road users faces.
Patrick Turner
I am cycling about 150km a week and see many others out on bikes but I
never see a distracting bright cycling light in daylight hours.
I don't ride at night, where they say helmet lights of other cyclists
are a nuisance when they look your way.
So never use helmet lights and only use handlebar mounted lighting. I
used to have a battery light and and a generator light for night riding
20 years ago, but how the LED lights are brighter and you don't need the
generator. I was surprised how many cyclists rode at night without any
lights and in dark clothing.
I find B-double semi trailers and large busses travelling nearby to be
quite disconcerting, because they are distractions you can't ignore.
Cyclists are always the losers in road accidents and so some will try to
light themselves up like a christams tree in order to wake up the many
inconsiderate dopey motorists and other cyclists who would otherwise not
see them.
There are a thousand things which could distract us but you should not
be a road user if you become mesmerized by some distraction and then
ignore what you need to focus on to survive.
It would be your fault you have the accident, not the cyclist's fault
for having a flashing front light. You have your rights, but you have
your duty of care as well.
Patrick Turner.
F Murtz
the same time.
If cars did the same thing I am sure they would be stopped.
terryc
> This thing was as bright as a headlight but concentrated and blinking at
> the same time.
> If cars did the same thing I am sure they would be stopped.
You must have never driven a car at night time for at least a decade/
F Murtz
in among traffic toward me.I have never seen white blinking headlights
in the night or day.
F Murtz
blinking searchlight.
Zebee Johnstone
As LED tech gets better it's becoming a lot more common to see really
bright lights on bicycles.
I have seen a couple of riders with very bright concentrated flashing
lights pointed high.
Mostly at night but I have seen one during the day that was annoying.
Day or night, shining lights in people's eyes causing them to look away
from you is capital S Stupid.
Zebee
Patrick Turner
There is probably a law which prevents constantly flashing headlights.
But I have never seen a bike light as strong as a typical 100W car
headlight.
Patrick Turner.
F Murtz
typically 100 watts they are typically 50/60 watts
Kathy and Steve
4.30am each day to beat the heat. Our handlebar catseyes really werent much
good in as far as seeing anything much in front (in fact I feared hitting a
dead beast or a roo on the road as I would have been cactus!) The
interesting observation was that when a car was approaching us (remember
this is out west where no one drives under 120 at night!) they didnt slow to
my little catseye but when I put it on to the "flashing" immediately they
took more notice and slowed. The other lady I was riding with had no flasher
so if a car approached us she put me in front as we felt a hell of a lot
safer. I doubt if they slowed because I was blinding them - they were just
more aware of us. I for one am an advocate of being seen
Kathy
Patrick Turner
Then let me re-compose to validate my point again :-
But I have never seen a bike light as strong as a typical 50W to 100W
car
headlight.
Most certainly not in daylight hours.
If you are a competent road user who shares the roads with others you
have to become accustomed to all sorts of unpredictable road conditions
including seeing cyclists with their puny little flashing fucking lights
at night or in daylight.
Were you to make a citizens arrest of any cyclist with infuriating
flashing light, perhaps you'd find the constabulary would not be happy
to see you with your arrested and restrained cyclist when they arrive,
or when you deliver the cyclist to the police station.
Were you to take a hammer to the offending light, perhaps you may find
yourself up against considerable resistance. Many cyclists are very fit
and agile and can be be entirely disagreeable, and quite feisty and
violent while defending their property, or while being told what to do
with their lighting arrangements.
Patrick Turner.
Patrick Turner
Congratulations Kathy. Anyone who cycles in central Qld at night and
lives to tell the tale deserves a medal.
I drive a car as well as ride, and I have no troubles with flashing
lights on bikes.
As I drive home at night after spending saturday evenings in the Pancake
Parlour playing chess, it is remarkable how often I see cyclists riding
along in the cycle lane with dark clothes, no reflectors, and no lights,
or if they do have one, its a feeble one worth $2.
I've always seen this for the last 30 years, and for well before the
cycle lanes were introduced in 2004. Some people are grave risk takers.
The people are usually asian students. Some have been working washing
dishes in restaurants.
And while many central Queenslanders drive at over 120kph, they are
often pissed as well, or so tired from the boring roads and the work
they've done that day that they sometimes fall asleep at the wheel.
I don't know what would be worse, being subject to the risk of the
occasional vehicle passing at high speed at night out west or being
subject to many many cars passing close by in a city, but at lower
speed, probably more awake, and less pissed.
But whatever your situation, having a flasher light is good sense to me.
I once road from King's Cross to Canberra starting at 1 am with 15
others, and I had a battery powered light and a generator powered light
so that with *two* independant lighting systems there was little risk
that if one light went out there'd be no disaster if I was apart from
other riders and going down a steep hill with no street lighting. There
was no way I would bother fitting any light which didn't light up enough
road in front so that I would not see a dead roo or wombat etc even if I
am travelling at 40kph. Cars would see me coming. But you still have to
assume they won't see you, and be prepared to evade them instantly if
they look like they might really hit you.
But the hit from behind is the far bigger worry than the head on because
you often don't know how they are aiming as you hear them approach, and
they are on the same side of the road to yourself. So the reflectors on
the back of your shoes and on your jersy or knicks and a flasher red
light is essential. The reflectors bounce up and down.
Such lights fitted properly will not be hazardous to passing or oncoming
motorists or other cyclists.
The LED lights are now far more efficient than the incandscent lamps I
used to run with a gene and a 6AH lead acid battery.
I know a guy who has done night laps in a mountain bike team race and I
helped him set up his lights. It was much easier than it use to be.
Patrick Turner.
F Murtz
are all going to be as aggressive as you sound
Patrick Turner
You would be amoung the tiny minority of people to not be able to handle
cyclist flashing lights. Then you go on to say I assume all car drivers
are agressive.
You are quite wrong in your perceptions about how I think. Most car
drivers like myself are considerate and often give way where we may not
have to. But it only takes a minority of aggressive, inconsiderate and
cyclist hating motorists to make life on a bicycle a risky activity
fraught with having to deal with aggression, and bloody stressful at
times.
Indeed there is a competive streak in my mental make up. I spent 6 years
in cycling clubs where I raced each week. After about 200 races I found
I had just two tiny trophies plus a bike I won to show for all the hard
slog. I didn't mind being the gracious loser. This here forum is the
Internet, and you can expect me to debate issues once raised in the
public view of everyone else.
Unfortunately you seem to me to confuse being aggressive with being
assertive, a very common personal shortcoming amoung the general
population.
My clear down to earth reasoning and perceptions has seen me survive
about 200,000km on motorcycles, 400,000 km in motor vehicles and 120,000
km of bicycles.
I do have to sometimes show my displeasure when motorists misbehave and
threaten my life, like the other day when I was cut off by a taxi
driver. I chased him into where he picked up a passenger at a busy hotel
entrance and I gave him both barrels about what he'd fuckin done wrong,
and told him how I felt. Needless to say he hates cyclists all the more,
and maybe I ruined his morning, but maybe he thinks twice about cutting
across a cycle lane. On a bike you must defend yourself.
When I see a motorist stop to let let me cross a road at a pedestrian
crossing I always manage a quick salute.
You might find that were you to come out on a ride with me that I am a
very reasonable person.
Patrick Turner.
hemyd
"Patrick Turner" <in...@turneraudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:4A292AA9...@turneraudio.com.au...
I have an "el cheapo" but very bright 36 LED light on my bike, and I use it
even in daylight, especially on a dull day. Although most of the route to
work is on a bike lane on a major road, I pass many intersections where the
drivers waiting in the side streets "see you without seeing you" The light
gives them less excuse to say they didn't see me. If the distraction of my
light stops them from charging through the intersection, then that's a good
thing.
Henry Mydlarz
F Murtz
have thought of (smashing etc)
I have no problem with bicycles on suburban streets or fancy clothing I
have no problem being able to see unadorned unflashing bicycles
I do have a problem with one particular flashing light that was annoying.
I do have a problem with bicycles on highways not designed for them.
I do have a problem with the same bicycle in peak hour continually
passing and then obstructing me then falling behind and the cycle
starting over again causing danger as every one passes him again.
When I was younger I used to ride to the station every day for school.I
used to ride every where and had no trouble using suburban streets and
never using main roads except to cross. I do not understand the
compulsion to get to the nearest main road and stay on it as long as
possible unless it is to show off ones fancy clothes
I have a black motorcycle and dark clothing no lights in the day and I
have no problem with others not seeing me
Patrick Keogh
OK everybody, step back from the keyboard and take a deep breath.
Life is too short to spend it in inconsequential flame wars.
You should know better.
Patrick Turner
F Murtz wrote:
>
> Patrick Turner wrote:
> >
> > F Murtz wrote:
> >> Patrick Turner wrote:
> >>> F Murtz wrote:
> >>>> Patrick Turner wrote:
> >>>>> F Murtz wrote:
> >>>>>> Patrick Turner wrote:
snip,
> > Unfortunately you seem to me to confuse being aggressive with being
> > assertive, a very common personal shortcoming amoung the general
> > population.
> You are the one that brought up reprisals for something that I would not
> have thought of (smashing etc)
Some people would think of it, but I just get verbal with offenders
against my safety.
>
> I have no problem with bicycles on suburban streets or fancy clothing I
> have no problem being able to see unadorned unflashing bicycles
> I do have a problem with one particular flashing light that was annoying.
Just one eh. Kinda trifling, no?
> I do have a problem with bicycles on highways not designed for them.
But they have the rights by law to ride in public roads.
Ever since bicycles were invented there has been much argy bargy between
road users, with many claims made about tryna get rid of cyclists off
roads "not designed for them".
Here in the ACT, many busy multilane main roads have had bicycle lanes
installed to make cycling such roads less like a suicide derby. So many
roads can be retro fitted or re-designed specifically to take motorists
and cyclists so there is less likelyhood of an accident where the costs
can be millions in compensation. Its cheaper for a compassionate society
to install the cycle lanes. I know the difference between having or not
having cycle lanes; they went in here in 2004, and continue to be
expanded, mainly thanks to the presence of a large % of elected ACT
government politicians being Green Party members.
I've cycled in Sydney, and on many busy roads without bike lanes and I
raise my hat to the majority of the motorists who had to pass me.
To instal cycle lanes on many of these old busy roads barely wide enough
for the existing lanes of motor traffic does involve a huge expense of
moving kerbs and poles to make room, and so it hasn't happened much.
People still have the right to cycle such roads and others have the duty
of care to safely deal with presence of cyclists. They may not like it,
but that's the Law.
> I do have a problem with the same bicycle in peak hour continually
> passing and then obstructing me then falling behind and the cycle
> starting over again causing danger as every one passes him again.
Too bad, you still have a duty of care.
I cannot for the life of me why you'd have a problem with passing
cyclists while you ride a motorcycle.
Your vehicle is a narrow width vehicle. I can understand the worries of
truckies and bus drivers, but not yours.
> When I was younger I used to ride to the station every day for school.I
> used to ride every where and had no trouble using suburban streets and
> never using main roads except to cross. I do not understand the
> compulsion to get to the nearest main road and stay on it as long as
> possible unless it is to show off ones fancy clothes
The busiest roads are usually the best route A to B. And cyclists are
entitled by law to use these roads.
There are roads where cyclist are legally excluded, such as some toll
roads afaik.
Should you wish for change, then get elected to make change if noboby
else will. Meanwhile you cannot expect to control the use of the roads,
and you'll just have to accept the presence of cyclists, and even those
amoung them who are dick-heads.
> I have a black motorcycle and dark clothing no lights in the day and I
> have no problem with others not seeing me.
That's a moot point. I also rode a BMW and other bikes between 19 and 32
for many miles and was only hit once by a motorist. He didn't see me
coming as he pulled out from a street on my left across Parramatta Rd at
4:20pm. I somersalted off the Bultaco Metralla I was riding and landed
on my feet running after striking the cars rear mudguard. Not a scratch.
Two witnesses at a bus stop thought it was spectacular, but failed to
get the arsole's number. The bike had badly bent forks, but a week later
I fixed it and kept riding. What a fucking miracle! The Traffic
Authority statistics may show that bright clothing/bike colours and
lights on might make you less likely to be involved in a collision. I
had a large white fairing on my BMW and people thought at first I was a
copper. Maybe that helped me stay alive.
Many car drivers just don't see the motorcyclist or the cyclist until
its too late.
Shit happens.
Patrick Turner.
F Murtz
And a car and a bicycle
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> I have no problem with bicycles on suburban streets or fancy clothing I
> have no problem being able to see unadorned unflashing bicycles
> I do have a problem with one particular flashing light that was annoying.
> I do have a problem with bicycles on highways not designed for them.
Would that be toll roads and freeways? All other roads appear
perfectly designed for them. My own shire's roads unfortunately
aren't designed for B doubles -- very unfortunate since they also shut
down the freight trains and so we do actually get hundreds of trucks
per hour come through on roads that clearly weren't designed for it.
They've only been talking about a town bypass for the past 30 years.
With luck, perhaps a cross country rail link will be set up before the
bypass gets more than half funded.
> I do have a problem with the same bicycle in peak hour continually
> passing and then obstructing me then falling behind and the cycle
> starting over again causing danger as every one passes him again.
What? How does that work? If a cyclist passes you repeatedly,
doesn't that mean they're going on average the same speed as them? So
why not just stick behind them once they pass you the first time? You
will still find you'll be stuck behind the same car at the next set of
lights. And the next. And the next. The funny thing about traffic,
is it is other traffic holding you up. Not the occasional bike.
Bikes take up bugger all space. It is rather damned hard for us to
obstruct traffic if there's any real chance that motorists can
actually go any quicker. On my own quiet twisty country roads, there
is one section where it isn't safe to overtake me for about a
kilometer (doesn't stop a few city tourists trying though), and it's
not safe for me to pull over. So on the rare occasion where someone
does get stuck behind me then (once every couple of weeks), someone
has the potential to be stuck behind me for about a minute and a half.
Out of a half hour trip to town. Who cares?
What's the average speed of a car these days anyway? I think it was
about 20km/h, even including the small number of cars that actually
get out of the city.
> When I was younger I used to ride to the station every day for school.I
> used to ride every where and had no trouble using suburban streets and
> never using main roads except to cross. I do not understand the
> compulsion to get to the nearest main road and stay on it as long as
> possible unless it is to show off ones fancy clothes
For me, it's because the main road is the most direct route to go
where I'm trying to go. Same reason you take that road. If you don't
like it, why don't you yourself take side streets?
> I have a black motorcycle and dark clothing no lights in the day and I
> have no problem with others not seeing me
Heh. Good on you. Someone told me that they could barely see my bike
(suzuki blue, with the lights on constantly) despite them knowing I
was there because they had pulled out of their driveway a few seconds
after I had pulled out of their driveway.
> Patrick Turner wrote:
>> I do have to sometimes show my displeasure when motorists misbehave and
>> threaten my life, like the other day when I was cut off by a taxi
>> driver. I chased him into where he picked up a passenger at a busy hotel
>> entrance and I gave him both barrels about what he'd fuckin done wrong,
>> and told him how I felt. Needless to say he hates cyclists all the more,
>> and maybe I ruined his morning, but maybe he thinks twice about cutting
>> across a cycle lane. On a bike you must defend yourself.
Heh. I had to use my airhorn on a cage full of teenagers today. They
still didn't acknowledge my existence (despite the airhorn being
pretty much aimed at the open window of the driver).
--
TimC
"COGITO, EGGO SUM." I think, therefore I am a waffle.
.sig of Mr. Ska on Slashdot.org
F Murtz
it is the danger of the car having to move half a lane to get round them
annoying the car behind etc.I don't mind that once per bicycle it is
having to do it ten times per bicycle in a few kilometres that is the
problem.
If you stay behind the bicycle which is the safest you won't find
yourself behind the same car at the next lights all the other cars move
into the space in front of the bike that will appear putting you x no of
cars back then the whole process starts again at the next light when the
same bike has moved to the beginning at the lights again.
This problem does not occur on suburban streets, only on main roads at
peak time.
I am not anti bicycle. I have bicycles.Don't use them much and when I do
it is not on main roads at peak as I would be a nuisance to others.
terryc
> The problem with bicycles repeatedly passing is nothing to do with speed
> it is the danger of the car having to move half a lane to get round them
> annoying the car behind etc.
Yawn. did you buy your lmotor vehicle driver's licence or ear it? Have a
problem with driving safely. At least you can overtake a bicycle. So much
harder to overtake another motor vehicle.
F Murtz
TimC
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> TimC wrote:
>> On 2009-06-08, F Murtz (aka Bruce)
>> was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
>>> passing and then obstructing me then falling behind and the cycle
>>> starting over again causing danger as every one passes him again.
>>
>> What? How does that work? If a cyclist passes you repeatedly,
>> doesn't that mean they're going on average the same speed as them? So
>> why not just stick behind them once they pass you the first time? You
>> will still find you'll be stuck behind the same car at the next set of
>> lights. And the next. And the next. The funny thing about traffic,
>> is it is other traffic holding you up. Not the occasional bike.
>> Bikes take up bugger all space. It is rather damned hard for us to
>> obstruct traffic if there's any real chance that motorists can
>> actually go any quicker. On my own quiet twisty country roads, there
>> is one section where it isn't safe to overtake me for about a
>> kilometer (doesn't stop a few city tourists trying though), and it's
>> not safe for me to pull over. So on the rare occasion where someone
>> does get stuck behind me then (once every couple of weeks), someone
>> has the potential to be stuck behind me for about a minute and a half.
>> Out of a half hour trip to town. Who cares?
> The problem with bicycles repeatedly passing is nothing to do with speed
> it is the danger of the car having to move half a lane to get round them
> annoying the car behind etc.I don't mind that once per bicycle it is
> having to do it ten times per bicycle in a few kilometres that is the
> problem.
> If you stay behind the bicycle which is the safest you won't find
> yourself behind the same car at the next lights all the other cars move
> into the space in front of the bike that will appear putting you x no of
> cars back then the whole process starts again at the next light when the
> same bike has moved to the beginning at the lights again.
Only the more agressive drivers will flow into the space infront of
you. It's best to get them out of the way anyway:
http://amasci.com/amateur/traffic/trafexp.html
Meanwhile, if you are still encountering the bike, then you are by
definition, going the same speed as them. If the gap in front of you
eventually fills up with those aforementioned aggressive drivers, then
eventually, the bike will get far enough ahead of you that you will
stop encountering it. Whereby you can go back to concentrating on the
stop start traffic without getting upset by the bike "holding you up".
> This problem does not occur on suburban streets, only on main roads at
> peak time.
> I am not anti bicycle. I have bicycles.Don't use them much and when I do
> it is not on main roads at peak as I would be a nuisance to others.
Nonsense.
--
TimC
Some of us here are sysadmins, and network admins, and even Windows
admins. Clubbing baby harp seals would a socially acceptable step
*up*. -- butting on ARK
theo
> The problem with bicycles repeatedly passing is nothing to do with speed
> it is the danger of the car having to move half a lane to get round them
> annoying the car behind etc.
Are you not legally required to move completely into another lane to
pass a vehicle?
> I don't mind that once per bicycle it is
> having to do it ten times per bicycle in a few kilometres that is the
> problem.
If you are having to do it more than once a bicycle you are not going
faster than the bicycle. Or are you saying bicycles should not be
allowed to pass stationary cars? The law specifically says they may.
> If you stay behind the bicycle which is the safest you won't find
> yourself behind the same car at the next lights all the other cars move
> into the space in front of the bike that will appear putting you x no of
> cars back then the whole process starts again at the next light when the
> same bike has moved to the beginning at the lights again.
> This problem does not occur on suburban streets, only on main roads at
> peak time.
> I am not anti bicycle. I have bicycles.Don't use them much and when I do
> it is not on main roads at peak as I would be a nuisance to others
Theo
Zebee Johnstone
F Murtz <hag...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I am not anti bicycle. I have bicycles.Don't use them much and when I do
> it is not on main roads at peak as I would be a nuisance to others.
If it's only happening on main roads at peak time, then what else
is different?
Answer... more cars.
If you are passing the same bicycle then there must be something
stopping you that isn't stopping them. The only thing that can be
is... stopped cars!
Main roads in non peak times have much higher average speeds than
the same road in peak times. The difference can't be bicycles,
just not enough of them. It has to be something else.
And the only thing it can be is... more cars!
So what's holding you up isn't the bicycle, that's just the different
thing you see and take note of. What's holding you up is other
cars.
It isn't at all intuitive because people are really bad at seeing
how systems work. Plus of course other cars are normal road noise,
you are used to being held up by them so you don't really process
it anymore. It's business as usual. But you see something different
and bingo! You focus on it. It's normal human mental processing,
see any number of studies about risk calculation.
Doesn't mean it is right of course, just means it's a mistake your
evolution is pushing you to make. Just acknowledge it is a mistake,
give yourself a tick for making your reason overcome your mistaken
instinct, and that solves that.
Zebee
barry j taylor
"F Murtz" <hag...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4a2c...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>
> I have no problem with bicycles on suburban streets or fancy clothing
so you say !
>I have no problem being able to see unadorned unflashing bicycles
you are indeed remarkable
OR
you are very inexperienced
OR
you are a TROLL
> I do have a problem with one particular flashing light that was annoying.
but it made you aware of its presence - mission accomplished...
> I do have a problem with bicycles on highways not designed for them.
suggest you have two problems - the main one your blinkered approach to
life,love and the universe
> I do have a problem with the same bicycle in peak hour continually passing
> and then obstructing me then falling behind and the cycle starting over
> again causing danger as every one passes him again.
poor you ! you do have a problem indeed ..
> When I was younger I used to ride to the station every day for school.I
> used to ride every where and had no trouble using suburban streets and
> never using main roads except to cross. I do not understand the compulsion
> to get to the nearest main road and stay on it as long as possible unless
> it is to show off ones fancy clothes
you have a problem - an attitude problem - get over it
> I have a black motorcycle and dark clothing no lights in the day and I
> have no problem with others not seeing me
sounds like you don't have much experience on the roads on your motor cycle
either
you might not have a problem with others not seeing you
but
how would you know that others have or do not have a problem with seeing you
?
have you ever considered that in addition to the size and shape of you and
your motor cycle you also have the advantage of making your presence on the
motor cycle felt by as a result of the sound that your machine makes ??
and BTW I have a problem with your inability to edit your problem posts
--
a friendly growl from the drop bear who cycles
(and also motor cycles)
__ __ __ _ __
/__/ / /__/ /_ /_\ /_ /
/_ / _ / /__/ /__ / \ / \ ....Azzuri Milano
__ __ __ _ __
/__/ / /__/ /_ /_\ /_ /
/_ / _ / /__/ /__ / \ / \ ....Kawasaki Zephyr
barry j taylor < tayl...@aapt.net.au >
F Murtz
bicycle group.on a slightly different tack why is it that bus drivers
complain all the time about bicycles in the bus lane, they complain no
where as much about taxis and motor bikes. It is probably because taxis
and motorcycles rarely hold them up
Zebee Johnstone
barry j taylor <tayl...@aapt.net.au> wrote:
>
> "F Murtz" <hag...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4a2c...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> but it made you aware of its presence - mission accomplished...
nope.
because a light that causes oncoming traffic to look away is bad news.
Bad news for the bod on the bicycle, and bad news for surrounding
traffic.
It's perfectly possible to have a high intensity flashing light that
doesn't do this.
I don't think it's required, as driver distraction isn't safe, no
matter what does it.
A high intensity steady light that illuminates the road and a less
intense flasher as a signaller that doesn't cause drivers to look away
or have difficulties with the rest of the traffic is a much better
deal.
Zebee
Zebee Johnstone
F Murtz <hag...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I realised that I would never get any where with this discussion on a
> bicycle group.on a slightly different tack why is it that bus drivers
What does "get anywhere" mean?
Does it mean "get my views validated" or does it mean "get useful
information and discussion"?
If it's the former then no, you won't get much of that in any
newsgroup really.
If it's the latter, then what useful information were you after, what
discussion did you expect?
> complain all the time about bicycles in the bus lane, they complain no
> where as much about taxis and motor bikes. It is probably because taxis
> and motorcycles rarely hold them up
And the difference between a bicycle in a bus lane and a car in peak
hour is?
There is a very big one. I even mentioned it in the post you replied
to.
Now, given that, what is the difficulty?
And for bonus points, why are buslanes doing duty as bicycle lanes?
Whose idea was it, and who supports it?
Zebee
Patrick Turner
Only one of us is hot. I'm quite cool, OK.
I just say what I think, and that ain't flaming anyone.
Patrick Turner.
Patrick Turner
Indeed a car may wove to the right as it passes a cyclist. The cyclist
has the right to be there so tough titty for the motorist; he must act
with precision and care at *all times*,
But the cyclist won't affect you on your motorcycle now will he?
> I don't mind that once per bicycle it is
> having to do it ten times per bicycle in a few kilometres that is the
> problem.
Again tough titty. Its life. The cyclist will proceed any way he can,
often passing stationery vehicles held up and then he gets re-passed,
then you have to deal with it.
Posting here won't change cyclist behaviour. We are entitled to get from
A to B any which way.
> If you stay behind the bicycle which is the safest you won't find
> yourself behind the same car at the next lights all the other cars move
> into the space in front of the bike that will appear putting you x no of
> cars back then the whole process starts again at the next light when the
> same bike has moved to the beginning at the lights again.
You are right this time, following the cyclist in a motor vehicle to
avoid constantly re-passing will hold up other motorists.
Don't do it. keep passing the cyclist safely as you can and use your
horn if he swings out too far. Just to warn him.
> This problem does not occur on suburban streets, only on main roads at
> peak time.
> I am not anti bicycle. I have bicycles.Don't use them much and when I do
> it is not on main roads at peak as I would be a nuisance to others.
While on my bike I keep off busy roads without cycle lanes. I am
therefore not a nuisance to motorists, but the damn pushy motorists are
not a nuisance to me.
Fortunately, I live in the ACT which has the best cycling amenities of
any city I know of.
And when driving in my car, there is rarely a long hard traffic jam.
Patrick Turner.
Patrick Turner
Please do come down to Canberra to see what can be achieved with regard
to cyclists and motorists sharing road space.
It would be a better activity than tryna argue something here at this
group.
I long gave up living in Sydney where many people spent 3 hours a day
just to get to work and back. Once I moved to the ACT I spent only 40
minutes total per day, in a car.
The main busy drag through Canberra is Northbourne Ave, about 6km from
city centre to Watson and 3 lanes each way. There is also a 1M wide
cycle lane on thr curb side of each direction.
There are numerous bus stops and numerous buses and each time a bus
stops I may have to either hop onto the footpath or swing around in the
1/2 the first or second lane out from the curb because the bus has
temporarily blocked the cycle lane and 3/4 blocked the first car lane
from the curb.
So other car drivers find themselves also held up by the damn buses, and
they have to carefully pick the time to move out to the second lane, and
many near accidents occur when they do this mainly because a guy 3 cars
back from the bus decides to swing out before giving those in front
chance to do so, so you then see how many dickheads drive cars.
At each bus stop they have not put an extra 1M of lane space to the left
of the cycle lane to allow the buses to be right out of car lanes. But
that would mean I'd have to still swing out into a lane with cars coming
through and I'd be even more held up by the buses. And the busses would
be delayed while trying to merge right after each stop, so they let the
busses be obstructive. So while they half block a car lane at least
there's half a vacant car lane for me to pass the bus. Its all a bit
nervous nelly time especially if I have just committed myself to passing
a stopped bus and it tries to start off while I pass, and I have to
sprint like mad to get around in front of it and back into the cycle
lane, rather than fall back and be run over by following cars.
There is little room to increase the road width at bus stops, and
numerous poles and trees and signs in the way.
Basically, I think the Govt believes that you really ought to use the
bus system or ride a bike before you complain about traffic hold ups,
and if you do complain, then get fucked, because nothing is perfect,
right, and the ACT does not have infinite funds, and if you don't know
keeping in the most right hand lane in a car is the best strategy in
Northbourne Ave, youse don't know much eh!
So far I am still here.
Things were infinitely worse before cycle lanes went in along
Northbourne Ave and I was regularly squeezed up against curbs by bus
drivers passing me then cutting in quick to stop leaving me with no room
and having to make a panick stop. I recall having a few blues and
yelling matches banging bus windows and shaming fucking drivers after
they'd tried to kill me. Since the cycle lanes lanes went in bus drivers
were taught that cyclists were being enchoraged to use the roads to save
building more roads and reduce greenhouse gasses.
Attitudes have changed, and I don't have to suffer so many near misses
each day I ride my bike.
Despite the safety now inherent with riding to work down and up Nthbne
Ave, many cyclists would not be seen dead on a bike on any road because
there is a risk with so many passing cars. You sure can't please
everyone. But its remarkable just how far you can ride in the ACT and
while staying on dedicated cycle paths and footpaths OK to cycle on.
Hundreds of kilometres in fact.
Patrick Turner.
terryc
> I realised that I would never get any where with this discussion on a
> bicycle group.
Exactly.We have heard the boring whine whine whine before. Simply
declares the poster for what they are.
Aeek
<zeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>And for bonus points, why are buslanes doing duty as bicycle lanes?
>Whose idea was it, and who supports it?
They've been like that in South Australia for ages, but the bus lanes
there are on the left. Cyclists are also expected to let the bus
proceed first at lights.
Here in Canberra, they are mostly on the right and bicycles aren't
permitted. Some however are on the left and since I'm all about being
legal, I ride just to the right of the bus lane.
Tends to freak drivers out for some reason. The biggest danger is
buses forcing me into the bus lane as it begins.
I do wonder about low speed scooters being ridden in 80km bus lanes.
Legal but insane.
As for lights, I run a HID, yes, its a bit of a monster on the paths
for oncoming riders but most of the time there aren't any and I do
need to see where I am going. Seeing the tree roots on an unlit path
is useful, as is being visable around blind corners and the other side
of underpasses. Some riders complain, bizarrely most of them are
dazzling me. The roads I use are mostly multi lane, so oncoming
drivers are well out of the spot. It does nicely light up any marked
police car in sight!
Patrick Turner
Aeek wrote:
>
> On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 05:11:19 +0000 (UTC), Zebee Johnstone
> <zeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >And for bonus points, why are buslanes doing duty as bicycle lanes?
> >Whose idea was it, and who supports it?
>
> They've been like that in South Australia for ages, but the bus lanes
> there are on the left. Cyclists are also expected to let the bus
> proceed first at lights.
On many roads in Canberra such as Northbourne Ave, there is no official
bus lane and the buses use the left lane nearest the curb.
There are 3 lanes each way for cars, with a cycle lane between the curb
and the car lanes, so cyclists have to cope with being over taken by
buses which then stop to block the cycle lane. So you pass the bus in
the car lane portion leftover.
Everyone learns to cope, or they die.
> Here in Canberra, they are mostly on the right and bicycles aren't
> permitted. Some however are on the left and since I'm all about being
> legal, I ride just to the right of the bus lane.
Indeed some bus lanes are right and some are left, but I never ride in a
signed bus lane ever, certainly not at the bottom of the hill coming
down from Belconnen towards Barry Drive into Civic.
Motorcyclists are free to ride in bus lanes.
> Tends to freak drivers out for some reason. The biggest danger is
> buses forcing me into the bus lane as it begins.
What you propose is too risky for me.
> I do wonder about low speed scooters being ridden in 80km bus lanes.
> Legal but insane.
Depends how slow they are, and most ain't all that slow compared to
buses. I recall riding a 50cc Honda step through many years ago and I
didn't hold up much traffic, and that was when traffic speeds were much
higher because there were no roving camera vans to stop people speeding.
On NthBne, and Limestone Ave, ppl were always doing 80kph+ where they
could in the 1970s, but you never see anyone doing more than 60 now. The
coppers finally found a legal and technical way to get people to comply
with speeding laws, and make plenty of profit from fines.
>
> As for lights, I run a HID, yes, its a bit of a monster on the paths
> for oncoming riders but most of the time there aren't any and I do
> need to see where I am going. Seeing the tree roots on an unlit path
> is useful, as is being visable around blind corners and the other side
> of underpasses. Some riders complain, bizarrely most of them are
> dazzling me.
And that's why helmet ligts are so bad. Front lights should only be
fixed to handlbars, and aiming down to the path/road, so that as the
riders approach each other in the dark niether rider has a light high
enough to dazzle anyone.
> The roads I use are mostly multi lane, so oncoming
> drivers are well out of the spot. It does nicely light up any marked
> police car in sight!
Patrick Turner.
Zebee Johnstone
Aeek <aeee...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
>
> As for lights, I run a HID, yes, its a bit of a monster on the paths
> for oncoming riders but most of the time there aren't any and I do
> need to see where I am going. Seeing the tree roots on an unlit path
I run a fairly bright dynamo light, an IQ Fly.
It lights up enough of the road in front of me to make unlit bike
paths usable, but it's aimed to be no higher than a car headlight so
it doesn't shine right in people's eyes. It's mounted on the front
derailluer stub so it's about car headlight height.
If the path/road is hilly then people can be blinded by it if they are
on the downhill side, but that's rare.
Zebee
Ray
news:slrnh3045r...@gmail.com:
+1 on the IQ Fly.
I too have one of these and have been lambasted by a motorist as I was
peaking a crest as he obviously copped the direct beam.
Little do these people realise that their own lights behave in an
identical manner and are several watts & lumens brighter :-(
Otherwise, a fantastic piece of kit, especially if you notch it back
when no oncoming traffic and being clearly able to see 10's of meters
ahead.
Impressive for a single 3W LED driven by the humble hub dynamo.
It goes without mentioning these are lights designed to meet the strict
German lighting regs, ie they have a defined cutoff.
It is a great shame we do not have the same requirement here too. There
are far too many poorly designed optics out there, yet these are always
the featured lights in Bicycle Vic's reviews.
Two thumbs down in my book.
Ray
Zebee Johnstone
>> derailluer stub so it's about car headlight height.
>
>
> I too have one of these and have been lambasted by a motorist as I was
> peaking a crest as he obviously copped the direct beam.
where's yours mounted?
Some 'bent riders mount their lights even lower, on the fork leg, to
stop foot flash.
I'd imagine most DF riders tend to put it on the handlebars? The
Germans of course mount it on the brake mount using the bracket
provided, but does anyone else?
Zebee
Ray
Mine's on the brake mount using the supplied bracket, so that makes it
about 30 inches above ground (MTB)
Ray
Aeek
<zeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>I'd imagine most DF riders tend to put it on the handlebars? The
>Germans of course mount it on the brake mount using the bracket
>provided, but does anyone else?
Yep, on the handlebars. Trouble is, I'm a tall guy so its a tall bike,
geometry means that is roughly a car drivers head hight.
Its not designed to mount anywhere else on the bike.