POH vs flight manual
d&tm
manual and a pilots operating handbook? which one will have all the info a
pilots needs about the aircraft and where is the best place to buy one in
australia ? . I bought an information manual from my flight school which is
useful but does not have a lot of important stuff like speeds etc and fuel
burn rates. ( the aircraft I am interested in is the piper warrior II)
thanks
Terry
Jad
specifics for each individual aircraft... whereas the POH is a general
overview of operating procedures with a certain make/model
am i correct???
Jad
"d&tm" <tfm...@iprimusREMOVEME.com.au> wrote in message
news:40688d78$1...@news.iprimus.com.au...
TB
http://www.casa.gov.au/avreg/business/flightman/whowhen.htm
Best place to get a POH is to copy the one from the aircraft you want to
fly. You can purchase one from Piper and you will need to quote the serial
number of the aircraft.
"Jad" <cdu...@bigblue.net.au> wrote in message
news:c4asaq$hs1$1...@bigblue.net.au...
Dave Pilkington
authority (the FAA for airplanes made in the USA). Per FAR 23.1351,
the AFM must contain operating limitations, operating procedures,
certain performance information and loading information plus "Other
information that is necessary for safe operation because of design,
operating, or handling characteristics." and "Further information
necessary to comply with the relevant operating rules." {those rules
for new airplanes, older machines have less, or even nil, requirement
for AFM information}
The Pilot Operating Handbook, POH, may be a separate document or it
may incorporate the approved AFM. POH data is not approved by the
airworthiness authority and would generally cover flight planning
information and other addditional information as a "guide for the
pilot". The word "guide" is the clue.
Just to confuse things, you can buy an Aircraft Information Manual:
"These Aircraft Information Manuals are similar to the type sold by
airplane manufacturers. They include the same data and limitations as
are contained in the original aircraft Pilot's Operating Handbook."
http://www.avshop.com/catalog/product.html?productid=3983&categoryid=216
Pilot's Guides are similar - get them at:
http://www.aviationtheory.net.au/guides.html
http://www.skylines.com.au/
Finally, from CASA information on their website:
"The Aircraft Flight Manual (AFM) is a book containing the information
and instructions required to operate the aircraft safely. The pilot
must comply with this AFM information." The word "must" is the clue -
compare with "guide" above. Their CAAP 54-1 has more information:
The CofR holder must "ensure the pilot is provided with all the
information neceaary to operate the aircraft safely." "Additional
information, which is not AFM information, may be required to operate
the aircraft. There may be additional or different operational
limitations and instructions required by the Authority, such as:
- loading systems and load data sheets ....
- weight restrictions due to operational requirements (eg see CAO
20.7.1B)"
But CASR Part 23 is really FAR 23 so - CAAP 54-1 is inconsistent with
CASA regulations - from my first paragraph above, the AFM must contain
much of the information that CAAP 54-1 suggests must be supplied
separately by the CofR holder.
I bet that most private pilots would be unfamiliar with CAO 20.7.4,
Aeroplane Weight and Performance Limitations.
http://www.casa.gov.au/download/orders/Cao20/200704.pdf
A typical American AFM or POH does not provide enough information to
guide a pilot on these requirements. And, if you want to prepare data
to enable you to comply with CAO 20.7.4 then you must do it as
specified by CAO 101.22 which was cancelled many years ago!
"d&tm" <tfm...@iprimusREMOVEME.com.au> wrote in message news:<40688d78$1...@news.iprimus.com.au>...
matt weber
At least in the USA it is legal distinction. The POH belongs to the
aircraft and specific to that aircraft, and the must be kept current.
The Flight manual is identical to the POH in content, but is not
serialized, and does not belong to the aircraft, and there is no legal
obligation for it to be current, or match the aircraft it represents.
Sometime call Cessna and ask to buy a POH. It is a long, painful, and
expensive experience, however if you just want the Flight manual, it
is only expensive.
Trevor Fenn
<hcgu70ti4sd1chmdn...@4ax.com>:
All of which of course is mis-information for the Australian pilot. In
actual fact in Australia you can buy a Pilots Operating Handbook for any
of the Cessna range at many of the pilot shops or some of the larger flying
schools and you can also buy a Pilots Information Manual. Both of these
contain the same information but the PIM is a paperback and the POH is in a
ring binder. The POH is the manual that would be supplied with a new
aircraft and would include the serial and Reg number in the front and is in
ring binder for to allow for amendments, this would constitute what is
known in Australia as the flight manual. Now I believe things have changed
since I left OZ but the actual flight manual in an Australian aircraft used
to be a pathetic little black binder with very little practical information
in it, unless you really needed to know that your Cessna 150 radio could
not be used above FL280.
As for non Cessna aircraft, Piper has a good range of information manuals
available, early Mooney and Rockwell Shrike manuals tend to suck.
If you can't locate what you need in Australia here is one place in the US
that you can get one.
http://www.avshop.com/catalog/product.html?productid=3983&categoryid=216
Feel free to email me if I can help locate what you need.
--
Trevor Fenn
There are too many zz's in my email address above.
Take two zz's and email me in the morning.
"Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just"
The Star Spangled Banner
Francis Scott Key
Ben Matthes
Can I use the radio in my Cessna 172 at FL280 around YSCB and still
get 5 x 5 comms? ................I must have an old POH
:-)
In fact, Trevor, what is apporoved for use now is the manufacturers
original manual. In our case - a Cessna 172N with FAA STC for
different engine (increased capacity & power) with associated flap
extension limitation (30degrees insead of the usual 40degrees) we now
have the situation where the approved POH is the generic Cessna 172
manual, excepting where Pilot's must refer to the Oz Flight Manual for
W&B and performance information as the generic Cessna POH does not
incorporate the FAA STC...............it's a beautiful world for a
paper shuffler:-)
This means for me I had to put tags in the Cessna 172 (N range) manual
telling PIlot's not to use the W&B & performance information as they
need to refer to the Australian Flight Manual for such info, all this
could, of course, been avoided if Oz had just accepted the inevitable
much earlier.
Re Cessna: long, painful, and expensivce. My experience with buying a
new manual for our aircraft (from Cessna Orstralyleeeah) was short and
sweet, and about 60 bucks. The manual turned up faster that the CASA
approval for same (as it was in response to their mandated changes)
By comparisson the Oz produced Flight Manual is still in a little
black folder, and a little light on practical information, and would
not be used in our case, but for the the STC!
PS
burp!
Ben Matthes. Canberra, Australia.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aircraft Manager, Canberra Aero Club.
http://www.canberra-aeroclub.com.au/