Ads-b Weather Uplink
sr20goer
I would value group feedback on the concept of weather data uplink when
ADS-B is introduced to Australia.
The USA proposed system is different to Oz but also has the benefit of
economy of scale for user pays items like weather uplink. At this
stage I don't want to debate the system differences or economies etc
but here is the question.
"First, is there a real need in Oz for weather data uplink to GA
aircraft (why?) and second are you prepared to pay for it?"
Brian
--
sr20goer
Posted at www.flight.org
Trevor Fenn
news:sr20goer.29mkiy@flight_org:
You gotta be kidding right?
You can't even get pilots to use their correct callsigns so they can avoid
landing fees and you expect them to pay for uplinked weather in a country
which experiences great flying weather most of the time?
TF
Stealth Pilot
wrote:
The problem I find is that weather isnt readilly available away from
the city. any airfields that used to have access facilities have
almost all gone what with CASA's wonderful efforts at developing
aviation in this country and the spiralling costs for commercial
aircraft.
I have become a comfortable expert at inferring weather from the tv
news broadcasts and I carry a transistor radio for picking up ABC
country radio. in reality the airservices facilities arent worth a
snot out in the country.
I realised a long time ago that if the air wasnt opaque and the winds
were under 20 knots I would fly the trip anyway.
Stealth Pilot
Epictetus
>
> The problem I find is that weather isnt readilly available away from
> the city. any airfields that used to have access facilities have
> almost all gone what with CASA's wonderful efforts at developing
> aviation in this country and the spiralling costs for commercial
> aircraft.
>
> I have become a comfortable expert at inferring weather from the tv
> news broadcasts and I carry a transistor radio for picking up ABC
> country radio. in reality the airservices facilities arent worth a
> snot out in the country.
>
> I realised a long time ago that if the air wasnt opaque and the winds
> were under 20 knots I would fly the trip anyway.
> Stealth Pilot
Personally always found weather an easy phone call away via the AWS
stations See
http://www.bom.gov.au/reguser/by_prod/aviation/national/awis_list.shtml
for list of phone numbers and frequencies where applicable. Unless you
are really out in the sticks where there are no phones landlines or mobile
Coop
We use a mobile (CDMA) and DECTALK (with a Phone-away card) which works
in most places- or else the AOPA website if there is internet available.
Rarely happens that we can't get one or the other- even at Forrest.
Failing that- a phone call to the local met bureau has always got us all
the information we need. If the situation is marginal I find its useful
to have a chat to the folks that do the forecasts- I have always found
that they will bend over backwards to help.
I wouldn't see much value in an ADS-B uplink, and the equipment would
look out of place on Dorothy's panel...
Coop
Brian May
sr20goer> I would value group feedback on the concept of weather
sr20goer> data uplink when ADS-B is introduced to Australia.
In contrast with the other responses, I would be interested in such a
system, even if only used as a backup in case, say the weather changes
significantly in a short period of time or if you accidently read the
wrong weather report.
I think it never hurts to have a another source of information.
sr20goer> The USA proposed system is different to Oz but also has
sr20goer> the benefit of economy of scale for user pays items like
sr20goer> weather uplink. At this stage I don't want to debate
sr20goer> the system differences or economies etc but here is the
sr20goer> question.
I don't like USA using a non-ADS-B (if I got the terminology correct)
system to do this when the rest of the world is going to ADS-B.
sr20goer> "First, is there a real need in Oz for weather data
sr20goer> uplink to GA aircraft (why?) and second are you prepared
sr20goer> to pay for it?" Brian
Depends how much extra it would cost.
I can't imagine them upgrading the cockpits of the aircraft I hire
anytime soon. Does the possibility exist of receiving this data via a
hand held device?
Also I wouldn't want or need it on every flight, e.g. if it is obvious
the weather conditions are ideal or for short flights - but more for
longer flights in unfamiliar terrain.
--
Brian May <b...@snoopy.apana.org.au>
Trevor Fenn
news:sa4k66z...@snoopy.microcomaustralia.com.au:
> I don't like USA using a non-ADS-B (if I got the terminology correct)
> system to do this when the rest of the world is going to ADS-B.
>
>
So we should be forced to use a system favoured by the minority?
The USA has other options not available in other parts of the world, why
shouldn't we use them?
SR20GOER
"Trevor Fenn" <fenn...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:Xns97F7D62D554BAfe...@216.77.188.18...
Trevor
Because we have yet to find any proof the USA system would be cheaper.
Certainly any system using two different technologies for upper and lower
airspaces is going to have some extra ground station costs, including the
need to provide relay facilities for ADSB-In traffic for lower airspace
aircraft to aircraft if I read it right.
Furthermore, the USA has economies of scale for providing UAT and weather
etc uplinks by business providers. The majority sampled here did not see WX
uplink as something necessary, particularly if they had to pay for it. Can
anyone find a service provider in Oz who sees ADS-B uplink as a good
business proposition?
Brian
Trevor Fenn
news:44ac7e39$0$14072$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:
>
> "Trevor Fenn" <fenn...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns97F7D62D554BAfe...@216.77.188.18...
>> Brian May <b...@snoopy.apana.org.au> wrote in
>> news:sa4k66z...@snoopy.microcomaustralia.com.au:
>>
>>> I don't like USA using a non-ADS-B (if I got the terminology
>>> correct) system to do this when the rest of the world is going to
>>> ADS-B.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> So we should be forced to use a system favoured by the minority?
>>
>> The USA has other options not available in other parts of the world,
>> why shouldn't we use them?
>
> Trevor
> Because we have yet to find any proof the USA system would be cheaper.
I didn't suggest it would be cheaper, just found it interesting that
someone would suggest that the USA community should use a given system
simply because it's the only option Australia has. I am one of those who
feel that such a system is not needed in Australia and I'll back that up
with my 6500 hours most of which was single pilot IFR ops. It's probably
only actually wanted by Cirrus pilots who just can't stand to have that MFD
not displaying everything it can :)
SR20GOER
Trevor
Lucky you grinned. I am opposed to WX uplink because I cannot find a valid
reason for it and the Cirrus screens are too full of pertinent flight
relevant data to confuse matters with WX fortune tellers prognostications.
Although, if we do go down that line, perhaps the stock market info could be
uplinked because the economists forecasts are at least as accurate (not) as
the WX.
I'm finding that the converse is the case - people are suggesting that Oz
should follow the US line. We don't have the economies of scale.
Brian
Trevor Fenn
news:44ad07d2$0$14071$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:
I'm a little remote from it now but I believe most people that have them
are using feeds from the satellite radio companies XM and Sirius for wx
feeds to on board displays. I'm guessing that's not an option in oz, and
the cost of the equipment in my opinion is ridiculous.
While on the subject of cost of flying I must say I'm very puzzled. Back
when I started flying in 1978, private owners were pretty much all about
efficiency. As much speed for as little fuel as possible which led to
things like the Mooney 201. Had anyone suggested bolting 300 hp onto the
front of a Grumman Tiger or a Warrior or a 172 they'd have been burnt at
the stake.
Well along comes 1985 and most manufacturers stop building light
aircraft, this allows an upstart company (Cirrus Design) to come out
with a plastic plane with 4 seats fixed gear and gobs of horsepower but
it only has half a yoke. Now I am working for a company that has a
cirrus maintenance centre so I see lots of the damn things coming and
going. I guess the Cirrus probably is still efficient in term of fuel
consumption vs speed althought us older pilots expect to see the number
of cylinders generally match the number of seats. BUt I ask you, who in
their right mind is going to buy a Columbia 400 at almost 1/2 a million
bux and burn 24 USG/HR in a 4 seat single??????
Not me, I'd rather buy a lightly used Malibu thanks.
I note that there is an STC out there to put a Lycoming 540 into a
Grumman Tiger, wonder how that would perform :)
TF
SR20GOER
> "SR20GOER" <sr20goer...@ozipilotsonline.com.au> wrote in
> news:44ad07d2$0$14071$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au:
>
> I'm a little remote from it now but I believe most people that have them
> are using feeds from the satellite radio companies XM and Sirius for wx
> feeds to on board displays. I'm guessing that's not an option in oz, and
> the cost of the equipment in my opinion is ridiculous.
Agreed. Again it is the USA economy of scale versus Oz. Other thing here
is that IFR gets wx en route anyway and VFR shouldn't be flying that close
to the minima to need it and can always get the wx from flightwatch or AERIS
by VHF anyway.
>
> Well along comes 1985 and most manufacturers stop building light
> aircraft, this allows an upstart company (Cirrus Design) to come out
> with a plastic plane with 4 seats fixed gear and gobs of horsepower but
> it only has half a yoke. Now I am working for a company that has a
> cirrus maintenance centre so I see lots of the damn things coming and
> going. I guess the Cirrus probably is still efficient in term of fuel
> consumption vs speed althought us older pilots expect to see the number
> of cylinders generally match the number of seats. BUt I ask you, who in
> their right mind is going to buy a Columbia 400 at almost 1/2 a million
> bux and burn 24 USG/HR in a 4 seat single??????
> TF
Good points. I must admit I fly the Cirrus but would be reluctant to buy
one. They are a delight to fly once you have the systems managed and the
parachute is a nice option over fog, Bass Strait, at night etc. But even
that brings costs - from memory 10 years = new rocket. Also the cost of the
screens is gold.
I can hire a Jabiru 160 at the same airport, cruise along on the smell of an
oily rag at 100+ knots, but admittedly only 2 aboard and still not quite to
GA standards. But for around $80K AUD if I wanted a social flyer it would
do me.
Brian