livecoding blueprints?

[Raoul Duke]

Does anybody (hopefully) have an idea of what a livecoding blueprints
could/should/would be?

I have my own thoughts, based around my own use cases. Probably
heavily influenced from having watched Inventing on Principle type
things since I mostly want to make video games. Probably no better
than IoP since I am neither smart enough nor experienced enough to do
better.

Probably livecoding in front of an audience is a different thing than
livecoding to make a development cycle better. Are there terms people
use to distinguish? Any sort of common taxonomy?

[Sean McDirmid]

This is something Alex McLean (from the live coding community) and I have argued about a bit, but I tend to think of "live programming" as the live feedback to make development better vs. "live coding" as a in situ experience of programming a program while it is running (going beyond the audience aspect). 

LIVE 2017 will accept submissions from either if anyone is interesting in joining us in Vancouver come October!

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From: augmented-...@googlegroups.com <augmented-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Raoul Duke <rao...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2017 5:52 PM
To: augmented-programming
Subject: livecoding blueprints?

 

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[Raoul Duke]

I am happy with both and hope they can live with and learn from each other. Mainly I dream that people who have been through making & using such things can start a wiki to explain what they believe does vs. doesn't work. What new creators and users should hope for and demand from such systems. Use case / user studies, reviews, etc. You know, for the kids (posterity).

[Sean McDirmid]

Did you read http://conf.researchr.org/getImage/live-2016/orig/LIVE_2016_paper_1.pdf before?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 30, 2017, at 18:52, Raoul Duke <rao...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am happy with both and hope they can live with and learn from each other. Mainly I dream that people who have been through making & using such things can start a wiki to explain what they believe does vs. doesn't work. What new creators and users should hope for and demand from such systems. Use case / user studies, reviews, etc. You know, for the kids (posterity).

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[Sandy Klausner]

Raoul & Sean,

Source code will have to be replaced by an alternative software medium of expressing systems that effectively manages meta-system abstractions before "Live Programming" becomes a practical reality.

Sandy Klausner

On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 7:04 PM, Sean McDirmid <mcdi...@outlook.com> wrote:

Did you read http://conf.researchr.org/getImage/live-2016/orig/LIVE_2016_paper_1.pdf before?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 30, 2017, at 18:52, Raoul Duke <rao...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am happy with both and hope they can live with and learn from each other. Mainly I dream that people who have been through making & using such things can start a wiki to explain what they believe does vs. doesn't work. What new creators and users should hope for and demand from such systems. Use case / user studies, reviews, etc. You know, for the kids (posterity).

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[Raoul Duke]

since i am a bad person, no. but downloaded it and am percolating. thank you for having written it! 

[Sean McDirmid]

The code isn't the problem, it's our UI to do abstraction, which right now is mostly in our head. Getting the computer to help in that thinking is key to the smooth continuous feedback loops promised by live programming. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 30, 2017, at 19:59, Raoul Duke <rao...@gmail.com> wrote:

since i am a bad person, no. but downloaded it and am percolating. thank you for having written it! 

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[Raoul Duke]

great paper, thanks for the reminder to readit.

probably naive of me but at the moment I'd be happy to just start off with having a repl that worked really well. it feels like there's a fair bit of low hanging fruit people obstibately miss. sure it would be some day nice to get help from the computer to figure out how to write my code but sheesh even if i alreafy have ideas of how to do it, it is a painful nightmare of edit compile run debug crap everywhere i go (and i for one want static type checking with inference, which also narrows my available options it seems).

[Sandy Klausner]

Sean,

So, you believe that the fundamental issue comes down to what does a 'system' look like if you could pour magical pixie dust over it.

Sandy

On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 9:31 PM, Sean McDirmid <mcdi...@outlook.com> wrote:

The code isn't the problem, it's our UI to do abstraction, which right now is mostly in our head. Getting the computer to help in that thinking is key to the smooth continuous feedback loops promised by live programming. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 30, 2017, at 19:59, Raoul Duke <rao...@gmail.com> wrote:

since i am a bad person, no. but downloaded it and am percolating. thank you for having written it! 

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[Sean McDirmid]

Languages are user interfaces also. Unfortunately, by themselves they don't have a lot of affordances, and heavily rely on human interpretation (languages communicate mental models, but they don't reify them), so using more pixels is probably part of the solution (but if I k ew the answer, I'd be a millionaire by now). 

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