Delay Finder?

[them...@gmail.com]

Delay finder?

I have had Audio Tool for a while now and I use it occasionally and it works very well. On the ProSoundWeb forum someone was asking about how to set delay speakers and is there an app to do that. I do that all of the time in SMAART and it got me thinking and wondering if this capability is in Audio Tool and I just can’t find it and if it isn’t, is it something that could be added.      

 

One way to do it would be to have it output a signal to the headphone jack and then compare that to a signal that the mic in the unit receives. And then give readout of the time difference of what went out to what came back in. To make this work you stand in one place and get a reading on the main speakers and then mute them and then turn on the delay speakers and get a reading on the delay speakers and then subtract the delay speaker reading from the main speaker reading and then set that time into the delay send and they should be time aligned.

 

Another way to do it that might be easier to implement would be to visually give to a look at the impulse that is being generated by whatever you are using to make the impulse like a metronome and you would see the initial impulse coming out of the mains and at the same time you would see the impulse coming out of the delays and you just keep changing the delay time on you delay speakers till the 2 pulses are on top of each other.

 

Is this something that Audio Tools can already do and I am just missing it?

[jimko...@gmail.com]

You could get close to that using the Oscilloscope window for now, I guess, and just playing with your delays till the pulses come together. I usually love to do this by ear after 45 years in the business, great cause you can walk the hall and radio the guy at the processor...down--up, hmmm, OK !
That was the way we did it in Woodstock, hehe ! (just joking).
Also, remember the human ear has a 35mS subjective appreciation where echo becomes delay...but training it is great...!
Be good and hear happily..
JimKovacs

[paulr...@gmail.com]

Sorry if dump question, I'm new to AudioTool :)

What is the "Oscilloscope window"? Do you mean the RT60 thing?

And are there maybe any other ways to measure the exact time correction?

[Jim Kovacs]

Hello.

Please check out the User Manual-
https://sites.google.com/site/bofinit/audiotool

you can also save it or print it out in .pdf

Cheers.

JimKo

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[paulr...@gmail.com]

Got it. The manual calls the middle window "oscilloscope" but in the app it's called "Input".

But I don't think the oscilloscope window could help finding the delay in any way. Phase adjustment needs some precise measurement...

[Jim Kovacs]

Thanks, Neil, nice and clean.

Actually, for speaker alignment, you do not need the original Source "chirp", that is for RT60, you can just fire the chirp through the Mains and Satellites, mike that, zoom in to the window and make the pulses fit on top of each other. I use Pulses, that way I can assure my speakers are firing in phase.

"Phase", as the real term implies, is another story, since your moving around even 1 Mt. will change that, and even more so in higher frequencies.

I love Smart too, and after all these years now have AudioTools on my smartphone, great tool by jjDunn. Find it at AppStore...
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.julian.apps.AudioTool

There are a bunch of oscilloscope apps out there for free too.

Seek and ye shall find.

Peace....

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 3:15 AM, <neil.j...@gmail.com> wrote:

So basically what is required is a time window display (adjustable range) that shows the generated chirp at zero and the received chirp at some point after. Then you can adjust your sound processor until both coincide. Actual signal phase is another matter!
I love Smart :)

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[neil.j...@gmail.com]

I came, I saw, I coughed up.
Very cool program.

[paulr...@gmail.com]

I have a car-hifi system with a subwoofer in the trunk, mids in the (lower) front doors and tweeters on the a-pillars. How would I measure the time delay with AudioTool?

[neil.j...@gmail.com]

Delaying mains pa systems is to align the stage sound for distant listeners listening to satellite speakers a long way back from the stage, say a stadium or greater , maybe tens of metres of more away from the stage. it is of no use in minute spaces like very small rooms or a car where the distance is inaudible. Remember that sound takes 345 metres per second to reach you so if your 345 meters from the stage and under satellite speakers the stage speakers need to be delayed by 1 second so that you hear both together.

[paulr...@gmail.com]

Just if you guys can't hear a difference it doesn't mean others won't too ;)

My head unit is 10 years old and has setitngs for the time correction of every channel in 0.1 ms steps.

The manual suggests to measure the distance and then calculate the delay by the speed of sound.

But this technique isn't very precise since there could be reflextions...

Any way, I'll use my laptop stick to ATB-PC Pro, it has the functions...

Checkout the topic "20. PHASE MEASUREMENT" in the manual on page 47:

http://www.kirchner-elektronik.de/upload/1445570_HandbookATB_PC_Pro.pdf