Multi way Speaker

[altsouza]

Hi,
I use Audiolense+jriver for 3 years now, and I am bery satisfied.
I have a second audio set up, with 3 pro audio Qsc amplifiers, Motu ultralite mk3 card and another Jriver setup.
I am going to build a 3 way Pro Audio speaker, and I am thinking to use Audiolense Crossover capabilities.
I have few questions:
1. For a pair of 3 way speaker, do I use the 6.0 set up?
2. If i add a passive sub, it will be a 6.1 set up?
3. How will be the measurements? Individual drivers?? Explain the process??
4. In j river, i use the 7.1 option?

Thanks

Antonio

[Bernt Ronningsbakk]

2.0 setup for a pair of 3 way speakers. Then you move to the crossover tab and add speaker drivers and crossover points.

2.1 with a sub.

Each driver is measured individually. Check that the operating frequency is covered by the sweep with some margin on both sides. I also recommend that you measure the sub to 1 kHz.

Kind regards,

Bernt

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[altsouza]

Hi Bernt,

Could you help me on the Playback format/Routing matirx and Crossover tabs. I want to add a 3way active speaker, but I would aprreciate to have a screen image with an example.

Thanks

Antonio

[Bernt Ronningsbakk]

You can load the two setups and look for yourself.

 

The procedure is to start with 2.0 or 2.1. That will give you the typical channel routing matrix and bass management. Then you go to the crossover tab and expand the left and right speaker. Double click on the speaker and you get one more driver…

 

Kind regards,

 

Bernt

[altsouza]

Hi Bernt,

Thank you. Now I am begining to understand.

I have few more questions.

Regarding integration with Jriver, I supose (in Jriver)  I have to choose the 7.1 (or 10 ch) setup!??

The Channel routing in Jriver, will be the regular one , L,R,C,sub,SL,SR,RL,RR  (i am confused in this)!!???

How about the measurements, how Audiolense handle this?

Thanks

Antonio

[mojave]

In JRiver you want to set it to 7.1 channels. You only need to set it to a channel count that equals or exceeds your channels. The channel order names in JRiver don't really matter since Audiolense will be setting the channel order. If you click New Measurement in Audiolense, the measurement window will come up with this channel order:

0 - Front Left - Bass

1 - Front Left - Midrange

2 - Front Left - Tweeter

3 - Front Right - Bass

4 - Front Right - Midrange

5 - Front Right - Tweeter

6 - Subwoofer Front Center

Just connect your outputs using this channel order. If you want to use a different channel order, you can change the measurement by clicking Advanced Settings > Enable Output Channel Override. You also need to make sure your amps are connected in the correct order if you change the measurement order.

The default for Audiolense in my 7.2 setup (with no center) is to put the front left subwoofer on channel 6 and the front right subwoofer on channel 7. I change it so they are on channels 3 and 4 and have them connected that way.

[altsouza]

Thank you mojave.

I have few more questions.

Regarding the J river, I just config 7.1 (or 10ch) and put the cororection file in the convolver, and that's it. Everything is automatic.
Regarding the measurement itself, do you have any trick to avoid send low freq to the tweeter.??
Thanks
Antonio

[mojave]

Yes, just load the convolution file in JRiver in the DSP Studio. You don't need to do anything else other than set Output Format to 7.1.

If you save only one filter sample rate (44.1 for example), JRiver will automatically resample the filter for other sample rates. I find this easier than having Audiolense create filters for other sample rates. If you do create filters in Audiolense for each sample rate, JRiver will automatically switch filters.

Have you looked at the Measurement window for the setups Bernt uploaded? In the measurement you can set a start and end Hz for each channel. For the tweeter, it starts at 1,750 and ends at 24,000. It is measuring the tweeter an octave lower than the 3,500 Hz crossover. If you change your crossover, then the measurement default will automatically change. You can can manually change the start Hz to lower, but I would recommend not raising it. You want to measure at least an octave below the crossover frequency.

[altsouza]

Mojave,
Thank you. We are almost there!
Regarding sample rates, i have read an old post, that tells that 44 correction files degrade the sound in Xo aplications.
I am thinkig to create a 96 correction file, and j river do the upsampiling! What do you think?

Anothe newbie question,:
1. audio lense creates two files , 2ch and 5.1, which one do i have to use? Does matter?

Thanks
Antonio

[mojave]

Yes, creating a 96 kHz file and letting JRiver upsample all media to 96 kHz will work fine. I actually use 88.2 kHz. 

In "Play Back Format and Channel Routing" tab in Speaker Setup you can delete the 5.1 playback format after selecting it from the drop down box. Then Audiolense will only save the 2 channel file. Make sure you "Save Setup", exit Speaker Setup, and then "Open Speaker Setup" again from the Setup menu. Saving the setup doesn't change the current setup you have loaded unless you manually load it. 

The 5.1 file is necessary if you have a 5.1 source that you want to matrix to 2.0. It is much easier to just downmix in JRiver to 2.0 using Output Format in DSP Studio. Instead of 7.1 channels, select 2 channels (inside 7.1 container) and turn on JRSS mixing. This will downmix any multi-channel content to 2 channels, but still allow you to use all 8 channels for output through the convolution filter.

[altsouza]

Hi Mojave/Bernt,

I want to change channel order. I am just wondering if I change the ch order in the measurement window, will take efect in the saved config files???

Would it be more logical to change in the setup window???  (not possible)

Thanks

Antonio

[Bernt Ronningsbakk]

Yes it will take effect in the config files.

 

Kind regards,

 

Bernt

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[altsouza]

Hi Bernt,

I did all the right procedure to make a 3 way config file, but the sound is distorted.

The channels outputs are all correct, but the sound is very distorted.

I played it with Jriver, using the 2.0 96 files.

I am sending you the files for you to help me.

Thanks

Antonio

[Bernt Ronningsbakk]

Hi Antonio,

 

Before I check the files, please confirm that the “Normalize filter volume” in the Convolution engine is disabled. And if it was enabled while you tested, do another test with it disabled.

 

Kind regards,

 

Bernt

 

From: audio...@googlegroups.com [mailto:audio...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of altsouza

Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 4:00 PM
To: audio...@googlegroups.com

[altsouza]

In both options there are clipping noise.

Antonio

[Bernt Ronningsbakk]

Hi Antonio,

 

I have had a look at the files.

 

There are time domain differences between the two midrange drivers that I would normally not expect. The left has some early ringing attached that is not present on the right. Also, the left can be challenging combined with a time domain correction. If this difference is real, you can make effective ttd filters by increasing the max correction boost to 12dB. Anyway, if this is what you’re hearing, there should only be such noise problems  in the left speaker.

 

Have you tried a simple frequency correction? If there’s still clipping noise I would expect the problem to be somewhere else in the system.

 

There could be some sort of problem with the measurement too, but I am not able to detect any of such from here.

 

Hope this helps.

[altsouza]

Thank you Bernt. I will make some Feq corrections files.
Regarding speaker setup, can i change crossover points and re-do the correction with the same measurement i made with the old setup (only minimal adjusts to crossover points)???
Antonio

[Bernt Ronningsbakk]

Yes you can adjust the crossover as long as the crossover stays inside the frequency range of the measurement sweep.

Kind regards,

Bernt


-----Original Message-----

From: audio...@googlegroups.com [mailto:audio...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of altsouza

[altsouza]

Hi Bernt,

Problem Solved. I changed the PC. I was using i5 win8.1 64bits notebook. Now i am using J1900 Baytrail mini itx Pc win7 32bits.

Maybe is the motu's Ultralight mk3 driver with win 8.1 64bit!

Anyway, i have one more question:

1. Do i have to use Jriver JRSS mix?

thanks

Antonio

[Bernt Ronningsbakk]

I don’t think that is necessary.

 

Kind regards,

 

Bernt

 

From: audio...@googlegroups.com [mailto:audio...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of altsouza

Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 6:14 PM
To: audio...@googlegroups.com