Audiolense and 4.4 setup (4 channels, 4 subs)

[Tomasz Dziemianczuk]

Hello, 
I have read a lot of information about Audiolense on the web and the time has come to make a decision. However I woud like to ask a few questions. Basically my setup consists of Echo Audiofire 8 interface, PS3 (bluray movies, games, cd player) and Mac mini with Jriver (hi-res music, movies). I want to use both sources and process them with DRC. My speakers are Geddes Abbey and they have a passive crossover. I am thinking about going active either with DEQX (I already own one) or Audiolense. What is important I would definately like to use 4 subwoofers and 2 extra surround channels for total 4.4 setup in nearest couple of months. So my question. Is it possible to use Audilense for 4.4 or 2.4 (stereo, 4 subs) setup? I am divided between Dirac, Audiolense and Acourate right now. What about latency if I play games on PS3 with DRC on the Macmini processing the sound? One more question about filters in Jriver  .Does Audiolense filters work with Jriver convolution?  Looking forward to your answer. Tomek

[BerntR]

Hi Tomasz,

Welcome to the forum!

Yes you can use Audiolense xo for 4.4 or 2.4 or basically any setup you want. 

The latency will depend on the convolver and the correction filters. A minimum delay correction typically will have filters that delays the audio by 5-10 ms if sub woofers are involved. A time domain correction will typically hav a delay of half the filter length  - which often translates to around 0.7 seconds. The latency from processing the filters comes in addition to that. In theory that can get down to zero, but I am not sure how low you can go with jriver. 

I am not sure how this will turn out in conjunction with gaming. Perhaps some of the forum members can answer that.

And yes: The audiolense filters work with the jriver convolution. 

Best regards,

Bernt

[Tomasz Dziemianczuk]

Hello Bernt,

Can you please explain how Audiolense deals with stero channels plus three suboofers? Does it correct both frequency and impulse response of tyhe whole setup. Does it correct each subwooofer channel independently or take into account the full sub-bas response which help to deal with room modes?

With regards,

Tomek

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[MICHAEL LOWE]

Tomek,

I am also working on a multi-mono sub setup in AL. I set up a 2.4 mono sub setup last nite. The predicted target response looked very nice. However, I didn't have the time or mental energy to setup my loopback to capture the actual response in REW/Jriver/Multi-Client. 

Just based on initial listening, I don't think the predicted target response will well match the actual response in my setup. The reason is based on what I heard and also the subwoofer configuration. I have the subs at one quarter width on frontwall and backwall. This is called the "very good" configuration according to Welti/Toole's mathematical modeling for mono subs. The purpose, of course, is to use subs destructively to eliminate many axial width/length modes. In addition, the sub positions can eliminate non-minimum phase nulls and smooth bass outside seated position. 

I know Bernt is aware of this. I believe he is working on a solution for those who want to use subwoofers in this way.  This is needed because the software cannot know where all the subs are located in the room and how the subs will interact dynamically with one another. 

I really think bass is the "final frontier."  It is challenging to get very accurate low frequencies down to 20hz. Most folks have never even heard it before. I am excited about the possibility that AL can generate wonderful filters based on actual multiple mono sub in room response. :-)

Michael. 

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[Tomasz Dziemianczuk]

 Unfortunately as far as I know no software (dirac, audiolense, acourate) can work with multisubs properly i.e. measuring them all at once. They all measure them one by one and correcting them indvidually but that is not I am looking for. Luckily there is a new, free software called Multisub Optimizer which looks promising.

http://andyc.diy-audio-engineering.org/mso/html/index.html

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/277267-multi-sub-optimizer.html

I wish Audiolense/ Acourate/Dirac could do the job. So looking forward to new versions. In my opinion 3-4 subwoofers and a proper DRC software are a must in today's audio otherwise there is no chance to deal with room modes. Bass traps wont fit in small rooms and moving speakers is questionable if space and other furnitures are an issue.

Dziemian

[Tomasz Dziemianczuk]

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/2103074-optimizing-subwoofers-integration-mains-multi-sub-optimizer-4.html

[MICHAEL LOWE]

Acourate convolver can do it. I own both and use both. I plan to try AC later on. 

[Tomasz Dziemianczuk]

I am sorry Michael. I dont get it how Acourate Convolver can do it? Let me know when you try and make some measurements. Is Jriver's convolver capable of the same? 

[MICHAEL LOWE]

This is good info!  Thanks. I wonder how one could get ahold of the mathematical modeling used in the article cited?

J. Zhang and A. C. Sanderson, JADE: Adaptive Differential Evolution with Optional External Archive, IEEE Transactions on Evolutionary Computation, 13(5): 945 - 958, October 2009.

On Dec 17, 2015, at 12:59 PM, Tomasz Dziemianczuk <tdziem...@gmail.com> wrote:

[MICHAEL LOWE]

Tomek,

I plan to use AC to take measurements of all subs at the same time. I personally don't feel comfortable doing it, so Uli usually helps me do it. The last time he did it, I took a video and posted it on one of my threads on www.whatsbestforum.com. When Uli and I can try it again with four subs, I will take another video. I do like Acourate and Uli is very helpful. I just wish I could do everything as well as Uli does it without any assistance. I know I could if I devoted sufficient time to the project but time isn't really available for me. 

I hope Bernt can develop a streamlined approach to solve this problem. :-)

[Bernt Rønningsbakk]

Hi Tomek,

 

I guess you already have the answer. It is one speaker, one channel at a time with Audiolense.

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[Bernt Rønningsbakk]

Forgot to say:

 

Nevertheless I expect it to be very effective in the sweet spot and usually pretty good outside too.

[Tomasz Dziemianczuk]

Thank you Bernt. Check this Multisub optimizer. Maybe this will give you some idea about future upgrade of Audiolense. This feature will definately distinguish your product from Acourate.

http://andyc.diy-audio-engineering.org/mso/html/index.html

Tomek