Standalone convolver?

[Mitch]

Hi Bernt,

I am using JRiver MC 16 and the convolver VST plug-in with a Lynx L22
sound card on Win7 64bit.
With Audiolense filters, my stereo sounds fantastic! Thanks for that.

Here is the issue. I have other music players (e.g. Zune, MOG, etc.)
and play Netflix in the browser (can't realibaly get it to work in
JRiver) and other internet radio sources that JRiver does not support
and as a result bypasses the correction filters.

Is there a way for me to set up a stand alone convolver so that no
matter what the audio source is from the list above, it will always go
through the Audiolense filters?

Many thanks,

Mitch

[Peter Hsieh]

Dear Mitch,

Here is what I’ve been using as a not-standalone, but ‘one-package’
convolver.

Software needed:
1) Virtual Audio Cable (VAC) from http://software.muzychenko.net/eng/vac.htm
2) ConvolverVST from http://convolver.sourceforge.net/vst.html
3) Savihost from http://www.hermannseib.com/english/savihost.htm, a
small footprint version written by the same author of VSTHost
4) Bill2’s Process Manager (BPM) from http://www.bill2-software.com/processmanager/
(I have to use Google Translate as this is a French website, but
during installation, you can choose to install the English Version)
5) ASIO4All from http://www.asio4all.com/

Install all the above software, then
1) Open VAC’s Control Panel from the Windows Start button, create 1
set of Audio Cable, exit the Control Panel
2) Install ConvolverVST
3) Put Savihost.exe into the folder where ConvolverVST is installed,
in my case it is "C:\Program Files\Convolver\Convolver\
a) Rename Savihost.exe to convolverVST.exe
4) Launch the renamed convolverVST.exe (I pin this program to the
Taskbar)
a) Select Menu Devices-Wave, in Output Port, select “ASIO: ASIO4ALL
v2)”, Click OK
b) Configure ASIO4ALL
i. On Windows Task Bar, your ASIO4ALL icon shows up, double click
on the icon.
ii. Lower Right Corner of the pop-up window, select the wrench
icon to go to Advance mode
iii. Enable both “Virtual Audio Cable”, and YourOwn DAC
iv. Close ASIO4ALL configure window
c) Back in ConvolverVST Program window, select Menu Devices-ASIO
Channel Selection,
i. Input Channels, Select “Virtual Cable 1 1 + Virtual Cable 1 2”
ii. Output Channels:, Select YourOutputDevice, i.e., your DAC.
Click OK
d) Select Menu Engine-Configure, Make sure
i. Assign Engine Input Channels and Assign Engine Output Channels
are the same as chosen above.
e) Load your convolver WAV file in the main window.
5) Open your favorite player, choose “Virtual Audio Cable 1” as your
output, use Kernel Streaming, or WASAPI. For ASIO, refer to step 5-
b.
a) (My current favorite ones are either StealthAudioPlayer and a new
find called Aplayer from a Russian website http://vv.uka.ru/aplayer_eng.html,
(Note: Somehow the Maiko WASAPI plugin referred to in the website,
even though gives a fuller bass sound for me, but my antivirus
software doesn’t like it on my regular computer. However, since I
used a dedicated PC stripped down to less than 30 services, without
antivirus, so I am still using the MAIKO WASAPI plugin with it. But
use the Maiko WASAPI plugin with caution, for now. Otherwise I like to
use the Kernel Streaming Sound)
b) If you want to use ASIO, choose ASIO4ALL to talk to "Virtual
Audio Cable 1", a second ASIO4ALL icon will up on the taskbar,
configure that new new one to use "Virtual Audio Cable"
c) Music should start playing
6) Launch Bill2’s Process Manager, on my 4-core machine, I assign
ConvolverVST to Affinity Core 3, Priority Realtime
a) You Right Click on ConvolverVST, select “Create a Rule for this
Process”,
b) In the Pop up window, select Set Priority “Realtime”, Set
Affinity “Core 3”, in both tabs: “Normal Window”, and “Minimized
window or hidden process”
c) Assign Aplayer (or your player) to Realtime, and Core 4.


This is my configuration in my office with an EMU 0404USB.

At home, I use a PrismSound Orpheus, it has 8 analog inputs and 8
analog outputs, I use 2 Input Channels, and 2 Output Channel to
replace VAC above. Since I don’t use VAC at home, there is no need to
use ASIO4ALL either. I can use the ASIO driver that comes with
Orpheus.

Hope this helps.

Peter

[Bernt Ronningsbakk]

Hi Mitch,

I suggest that you ask at the Audiolense User forum. There are several
solutions depending on situation and hardware. I'll chime in with whatever I
can contribute with.

Kind regards,

Bernt

Hi Bernt,

Many thanks,

Mitch

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[Bernt Ronningsbakk]

Ha ha.

I now realize that's just what you did.

Right now I'm keeping my fingers crossed for someone to raise the standard
of this thread ....

[Bernt Ronningsbakk]

Mitch,

Here's a couple of alternatives for you:

First of all, you need a standalone VST Host. For instance Bidule from
Plogue.

The VST host (and the convolver plugin) sits between inputs and outputs on
the sound card. You decide which inputs and ouputs.

Alternative A: If you have at least two (for stereo) extra outputs available
on your sound card (e.g. SPDIF out) you can choose that output for those
sources and loop it back to an available input. This can be done with an
SPDIF cable if you have spdif in and out available. But some cards have
rerouting included in their driver & software so you can do this without
real cables. Then you hook up the VST host and the VST plugin to take the
audio from the SPDIF input, process it and send it to the speakers. You
should use Asio inside the VST environment if you can. And you have to use
windowsMME, direct sound or Wasapi between the other players and the sound
card.

Alternative B: If you don't have extra outputs available try this:
Virtual Audio Cable(VAC). Configure a stereo cable and use this as the
"output channels" for the other sources. Use the Asio wrapper Asio4All, and
configure it so that VAC is the input and your real sound card is the
output. Then choose VAC as sound card in the VST host. Be aware that VAC is
clocked by the operative system and not by the sound card, so there may be
glitches in the Audio. But you can adjust the playback speed in VAC and you
can also use large buffers in the sound card and in the VST host. And that
usually gives you glitch free playback. This rendering path may not be bit
perfect, since the windows mixer will be in the path, so alternative A is
better if you have the hardware capabilities for it.

Once you've got it working you can save the setup in the VST host so it will
be easy to use the next time.

You will have to shut down JRiver when you use the VST host and you have to
shut down the VST host when you use JRiver. They both run in exclusive mode.

Also, there are a few dynamic link library files (dll's) that sits in the
Convolver folder that you probably have to copy over to the VST program
folder to make ConvolverVST work. Libsnd.dll, ffftw.dll and perhaps one
more.

It can be a bit tweaky to make this work so I hope someone with such a setup
can contribute with their experiences here.

[Alan Jordan]

Hi,

The Lynx L-22 is very similar to the Lynx 2B, which I own.  The Lynx cards include a jumper that can be set to provide internal loopback capabilities.

A long time ago I used to use a software crossover called Thuneau Allocator with my Lynx card.  I needed to ensure every sound went through the crossover, so I wrote up a guide on how I did it.  You may be able to find some useful information in that guide, but its been so long since I did that kind of thing that I really can't answer further questions about it.

You can check out http://www.alanjordan.org/Lynx2BThuneauAllocatorSetup.html to see if it helps.

Alan

http://www.alanjordan.org

[Mitch]

Wow, thanks so much Peter, Bernt, Allan!

Peter thanks for the detailed instructions. I decided to use Savihost
a this seems the simplest way to host convolverVST.

Bernt thanks for the alternatives and exclusive mode note, I fogot!

Allan, thanks for the note on the Lynx L22 loopback mode.

I installed Savihost and was able to get the convolverVST hosted. I
installed the ASIO4all driver...

But I can't seem to get the whole chain to work. In Windows 7 sound
control panel, there is a list of Lynx record and playback devices but
they are all named the same... Need to make a quick query to Lync
support to see how I can identify these devices so I can route
properly in the convlver.

Cheers, Mitch

On Oct 10, 7:07 am, Alan Jordan <aljor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The Lynx L-22 is very similar to the Lynx 2B, which I own.  The Lynx cards
> include a jumper that can be set to provide internal loopback capabilities.
>
> A long time ago I used to use a software crossover called Thuneau Allocator
> with my Lynx card.  I needed to ensure every sound went through the
> crossover, so I wrote up a guide on how I did it.  You may be able to find
> some useful information in that guide, but its been so long since I did that
> kind of thing that I really can't answer further questions about it.
>

> You can check outhttp://www.alanjordan.org/Lynx2BThuneauAllocatorSetup.htmltosee if it

> --http://www.alanjordan.org- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Jarle Bergene]

Bernt,

 

Is there a similar procedure if you want to connect an external sources like a CD-player, synthesizer, mic or whatever?

 

Best regards,

Jarle

[Bernt Ronningsbakk]

Hi Jarle,

 

Yes.

 

Stand-alone VST host. Same as below except the internal loop. The host stands between the inputs and outputs and processes the Audio. Most VST hosts are made for that kind of configuration.

 

Kind regards,

 

Bernt

[Mitch]

Thanks again to everyone here for helping me out, finally got it
working in the simplest form I can think of.

Big shout out to Paul Erlandson at Lynx studios for helping me figure
it out. Fantastic support!

I can now run Netflix, Windows Media Player, Zune, MOG, etc., and
JRiver MC 16 through my system with Audiolense filters in the path.

If your sound card supports loopback (my Lynx L22 that Bernt
reccomended to me supports loopback and sounds great - thanks Alan for
the loopback link!) , then all you need is Savihost from
http://www.hermannseib.com/english/savihost.htm (thanks Peter!) to be
a standalone host for convolverVST: http://convolver.sourceforge.net/vst.html

Once you have configured Savihost to run standlone with the audiolense
files loaded. Go to Devices, underneath Wave... Select your sound
card's ASIO driver. In my case, it was Lynx ASIO. Then under devices
again, you will see the ASIO menu items are now enabled. Click on
ASIO Channel Selection... Dependng on which channels your card loops
back on, select that as the input channel. Then on the output
channel, send the output to a different channel than the loopback
channel. All done!

The caveat is, and I have not played with this, as Bernt points out,
if you are hosting the convolver also in Jriver, only JRiver OR
Savihost can be running at one time and the onther must be turned off
as JRiver runs in exclusive mode. But I suppose I could turn off the
JRiver hosted convolver and just run the Savihost all the time...

It is possible to have a standalone convolver and run all your
different sound sources through provided you have a sound card that
supports loopback or use one of the other approaches (i.e. virtual
cable) as described in this thread.

Thanks so much folks!

PS. Btw, in case you have not seen it, I am finding http://www.computeraudiophile.com/
a pretty decent site. I have also posted a few blog postings about
Audiolense here in case it might be helpful for people getting
started: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/blogs/mitchco

Cheers!

MItch

On Oct 11, 12:52 pm, "Bernt Ronningsbakk"

<bernt.ronningsb...@lyse.net> wrote:
> Hi Jarle,
>
> Yes.
>
> Stand-alone VST host. Same as below except the internal loop. The host
> stands between the inputs and outputs and processes the Audio. Most VST
> hosts are made for that kind of configuration.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Bernt
>
> From: audio...@googlegroups.com [mailto:audio...@googlegroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Jarle Bergene
> Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 6:55 AM
> To: audio...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [audiolense] Standalone convolver?
>
> Bernt,
>
> Is there a similar procedure if you want to connect an external sources like
> a CD-player, synthesizer, mic or whatever?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jarle
>
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 3:57 PM, Bernt Ronningsbakk
>

> <mailto:audiolense%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com> .
> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/audiolense?hl=en.

>
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>
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[Peter Hsieh]

Dear Mitch,

My pleasure!

FYI, Jplay from http://jplay.eu has a new version, and is now my
favorite player to work with our convolver.

When using VAC, I use Kernel streaming, 256 samples (in my office)
When using Prism Sound Orpheus, I use Kernel streaming, Direct Link
(at home)

A new level of enjoyment, together with Audiolense convolver filter!

Best,

Peter

[markus_kr]

Dear Mitch,

thx for sharing your expierences and describing the way you found.
This is very interesting for me.
I have one additional question to you:
Does the Savihost work only wih *.wav - convolver-files or does ist
also accept *.cfg - convolfer files (which are used if multi-channel
support is needed - for example for a digital 4-way XO system).

best regards
Markus

[Mitch]

Hi Markus,

Savihost, as far as I know, hosts the convolverVST. ConvolverVST
supports these files formats:
http://convolver.sourceforge.net/index.html#SoundFormats

Since I only run stereo, I can't say how it supports multi-channel.
Maybe others on the forum can comment?

Regards,

Mitch

[Jarle Bergene]

Hi Bernt,

 

I'm not sure I understand this issue very well.

 

Why would a stand alone VST host need additional outputs (or VAC)  wheras J.River MC being the host this is not necessary.

 

As you say Bernt, "The VST host (and the convolver plugin) sits between inputs and outputs on

the sound card. You decide which inputs and ouputs."

 

The purpose of using a stand alone VST host (in our case) is to be able to utilize a variety of playback sources right? But only one source will be used at a time when you listen to music. So there will not be a problem with different softwares trying to access the same channels on the soundcard.

 

So where does loopback come in here?

 

This whole thing is quite confusing to me.

A clarification will be much appreciated.

 

Best regards,

Jarle

[Alan Jordan]

Hi,

JRiver does not have a manner to access the inputs of your sound card.  If JRiver is the playback source, it works fine.  If you want to use sound sources outside of your computer, you have to feed those sound sources into the line inputs of your sound card, and onward a VST host that has access to those inputs so it can route the sound through the convolver filters and through to the line level outputs of sound card.

Alan

http://www.alanjordan.org

[Jarle Bergene]

Ah, I think I understand a little more now. Stand-alone VST hosts communicate with the inputs of the soundcard. So when you want to use a software player as source you have to loopback the outputs to the inputs so that the VST host can pick up the stream? But how can the signals be routed to the correct outputs in the first place when the routing is to be done in the VST?

 

I have an active 3way stereosystem, so it is not a matter of just passing the signal on...

 

Thanks!

Jarle

[Bernt Ronningsbakk]

Hi Jarle,

 

I think it would be easier to respond if you have a specific problem that needs to be solved.

 

But part of the general answer would be that you can use any internal source on the PC, send the audio to a couple of available sound card outputs, send it back to a VST host where e.g. Audiolense corrects the sound and distributes it to the real audio ouputs connected to your per amps and speakers. But the loop back arrangement is only necessary if you want to use internal playback methods where a VST host isn’t embedded.

 

Kind regards,

 

Bernt

 

From: audio...@googlegroups.com [mailto:audio...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jarle Bergene
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2011 2:34 PM
To: audio...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [audiolense] Standalone convolver?

 

Ah, I think I understand a little more now. Stand-alone VST hosts communicate with the inputs of the soundcard. So when you want to use a software player as source you have to loopback the outputs to the inputs so that the VST host can pick up the stream? But how can the signals be routed to the correct outputs in the first place when the routing is to be done in the VST?

[Jarle Bergene]

Hi Bernt,

 

sorry to be inquiring about this convolver stuff as it is not directly related to Audiolense.

 

But the problem is:

 

Once in a while I throw a party. And when i do, the following is inevitable:

People go balistic because I can't use Spotify. And I have a hard time explaining why that is. (not only once, but several times, as people have a tendendy to arrive not at the same time). They are not satisfied with "that's just the way it is".

(And it is futile to start explaining about x-overs). As a matter of fact, as soon as I turn my back, some smart ass in in the process of downloading Spotify.

 

That was the background ;)

 

And now to the technical issue.

 

I have RME fireface so internal loopback is no problem.

Tried this savihost that was mentiond here. But before I go further, is it any point trying when Spotify doesn't support ASIO?

 

Now, I think that I am starting to see how I have to do this. (albeit I don't understand why the VST host cannot simply pick up the audio-stream directly from the player)

 

I need 6 channels because of 3-way active stereeo. So the impulse file needs two channels (left and right) as input, and separates this into 6 channels. am I getting this straight so far?

 

I use output channel 1-6 on the soundcard. From here on I am on thin ice, I try to explain what I think I have to do:

 

1. tell Spotify to playback at output channel 7 and 8. (don't know how that is possible though)

2. Make the soundcard loop back at input 7 and 8.

3. Inside the VST host: choose channel 7 & 8 as input, and 1,2,3,4,5,6 as outputs.

 

Bernt, or anybody, help is very apprciated. I'm in deep shit now because I suggested to my girlfriend that there might exist

[Jarle Bergene]

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 9:47 AM, Jarle Bergene <ber...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Bernt,

 

sorry to be inquiring about this convolver stuff as it is not directly related to Audiolense.

 

But the problem is:

 

Once in a while I throw a party. And when i do, the following is inevitable:

People go balistic because I can't use Spotify. And I have a hard time explaining why that is. (not only once, but several times, as people have a tendendy to arrive not at the same time). They are not satisfied with "that's just the way it is".

(And it is futile to start explaining about x-overs). As a matter of fact, as soon as I turn my back, some smart ass in in the process of downloading Spotify.

 

That was the background ;)

 

And now to the technical issue.

 

I have RME fireface so internal loopback is no problem.

Tried this savihost that was mentiond here. But before I go further, is it any point trying when Spotify doesn't support ASIO?

 

Now, I think that I am starting to see how I have to do this. (albeit I don't understand why the VST host cannot simply pick up the audio-stream directly from the player)

 

I need 6 channels because of 3-way active stereeo. So the impulse file needs two channels (left and right) as input, and separates this into 6 channels. am I getting this straight so far?

 

I use output channel 1-6 on the soundcard. From here on I am on thin ice, I try to explain what I think I have to do:

 

1. tell Spotify to playback at output channel 7 and 8. (don't know how that is possible though)

2. Make the soundcard loop back at input 7 and 8.

3. Inside the VST host: choose channel 7 & 8 as input, and 1,2,3,4,5,6 as outputs.

 

Bernt, or anybody, help is very apprciated. I'm in deep shit now because I suggested to my girlfriend that there might exist a solution to the problem ;)

 

Also, I came across a webpage: fidelify.net.

Does anybody know if this works?

 

Kind regards,

Jarle

[Bernt Ronningsbakk]

Hi Jarle,

 

Your outlined solution should work. You need to use something different than Asio between the player and the sound card. Because you will use Asio inside  the loop, and Asio only allows one instance at a time…

 

But this might interest you: You can find a Spotify client that can host Audiolense filters here: http://www.fidelify.net/

 

The author is a professional programmer and a distinguished Audiolense user.

[Jarle Bergene]

Thanks!

 

I did a test yesterday, and I can confirm that this works. I had to use SAVIHost's bigbrother VSTHost in order to get the channel routing right in my case. Used Foobar as source. A lot of crackling at first, but by adjusting the buffer size in Foobar it got better. Used Asio inside the VSTHost, and DirectSound inside Foobar. Regarding Spotify I wasn't sure how I could get it to play back at channel 7 & 8. Tried to select these channels in the Windows Mixer, but that didn't give me any signal through to my soundcard mixer.

 

I also downloaded Fidelify. But wasn't able to log in for some reason. Hopefully it will work after I get some support.

 

Thanks again! Good to have a forum like this.

 

Regards!