Laser cutting chocolate?

[Akarsh Simha]

Hi

Is it possible to laser cut bars of chocolate? More importantly, will
it be thereafter safe for human consumption?

Maybe a better solution would be to laser cut something and then bake
a chocolate bar on top of that. Any ideas? Has anyone tried this
before?

Regards
Akarsh

[Matthew House]

you'd have better luck using something else as a base. cutting chocolate, while theorietically possible, would most likely spew greasy organic compounds everywhere, and would probably be hell on the optics.

Akarsh

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[Ralph Schmidt-Dunker]

I've heard that our laser has so much residue (dioxins etc) that absolutely no food should be cut on it. Chocolate can also melt and clog the exhaust system. However, if you have another laser available, you may want to experiment. Keep in mind that the smoke point for sucrose is 314 °F. The laser will heat your chocolate well beyond that and impart a burned flavor. It all depends on your design constrains.

I know that Makerbot had an attachment called the Frostruder that used air pressure to print frosting and other viscous materials. You may be better of heating your chocolate to just above the melting point and printing it on a cold plate.

Best wishes,

Ralph

[Ralph Schmidt-Dunker]

constraints*

[Danny Miller]

You can't. The laser cutter works with a limited range of materials
which ablate away into gas rather than charring, and a high enough
melting point that the area of the cut doesn't melt into the cut.

What you'd need to do for this is make a rigid model, use a food-grade
silicone from:
http://www.smooth-on.com/

and cast your chocolate into that. Once cold, you can pop it out of the
mold, because the mold is flexible.

You can 3D print the original rigid model. It doesn't matter much what
it is, because it's just a model for the silicone mold.

It's worth mentioning that commercial chocolate is almost always
"tempered", for appearance, texture, and durability:
http://candy.about.com/od/candybasics/ht/temperchoc.htm

This is not the only method.

Danny

[Akarsh Simha]

Hey Danny

Do you think it might be easy to "raster" (well not exactly, but...)
on Aluminum on the CNC mill and then just use it to "stamp" somewhat
melting chocolate?

Regards
Akarsh

[Jerry Rutherford]

If you are looking to "brand" the chocolate with a pattern, you could etch the aluminum, clean it very well, then heat to stamp it.

What exactly are you trying to accomplish? If you want a shape... it could be made from clay, then use a vacu-form to create plastic molds.

Askjerry... everyone else does.
Visit me online at http://askjerry.info
See my projects, video links, tutorials, and blog today.

Akarsh

[Cara]

You can laser cut chocolate, but just because you can ...

depending on what you're trying to do, I can help with showing you how to temper, mold, or form chocolate. I was thinking about making my own molds eventually but haven't decided how to go about making them so they're not toxic.

Cara

Regards
Akarsh

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[Ralph Schmidt-Dunker]

I want to learn more about working with chocolate Cara. I'd like to make some truffles. Could you please teach me?

Best wishes,

Ralph

[Cara]

Is there a food-safe area to work in the space? I don't have a tempering pan, so there'd be a lot of potential for a giant mess.

I'd be happy to share my chocolate-making knowledge. It's a fun medium to work in.

Cara

[Ralph Schmidt-Dunker]

I have an older 3 layer set of All Clad pots and pans. I've also seen an electric chocolate melter made by Wilton. Just let me know what we need and I'll get it.

[Yama Ploskonka]

Levi from the 'Space is in business with chocolate bars. He has
experimented with laser-engraved molds

[Cara]

It doesn't take much to get started, and I have most of the supplies to demonstrate the basics of working with chocolate as I was taught, but there's a lot to learn, so we might want to first discuss what you'd be interesting in learning. Making truffles can be as simple as a chocolate ganache rolled in cocoa (simple and delicious), but a chocolate centerpiece sculpture requires more tools and space.

Perhaps we should take this out of this thread to discuss when/what/how?

Cara

[Martin Bogomolni]

As part of an advanced laser class, I can show people how to SAFELY raster designs onto chocolate in the laser cutter.

It takes a LOT of prep work to make it safe.  However, I have experimented and do know some good, and safe, techniques.

-M

[David M]

doesn't it still get the burned taste in the end? those rastered sugar cookies at the make & bake were yucky.

[Amishacker]

Concur w/ Jerry: you could etch in low relief and make an aluminum stamp. 

There would be some material flow from that (squish!) - if it's a relief shape and a bit can fit in all the features it can be CNCed.

Clay and vacuum molding would be higher relief, there are some similar constraints but no tooling concerns.

If you have a positive, silicone:

http://www.makeyourownmolds.com/

I expect Martin's option with the laser will be the fastest highest-detail option

http://www.instructables.com/id/Pure-Decadence---Laser-Etched-Chocolate-Bar/

I don't think a light engrave will change the taste appreciably, but yes: burned chocolate is gross.

If anyone wants to pursue mold-making w/ CNC, I'll be around Tuesday and Thursday evenings (6pm-10pm-ish), and mold-making on Nibblie is something I would like one of us to teach and more of us to use.

Akarsh, could you give us an image of the rough design you are working on?

[Danny Miller]

Maybe, to some degree. But aluminum warm enough to deform chocolate,
the chocolate's gooey and is just gonna stick to it when you pull it
away, unless you put in the freezer for awhile to cool it down. It may
still stick and fail to extract from the mold.

If it's a wide "candy bar" shape, thermal expansion may rip it apart.
Chocolate contracts much more than the aluminum when cooled, yet the
mold has no give at all. The chocolate may tear as it shrinks. The
problem may exist even when cooled very gradually.

A stamp is also prone to trapping air bubbles. If you try to add relief
holes they'll show up in the product, also will clog the mold right
away. If you instead made a mold and poured melted chocolate into it,
air bubbles won't happen.

But, heating/cooling cycle times will be long and depending on your
geometry, may not eject, and may tear. Thus the reason chocolate molds
are made from silicone.

The laser cutter can only engrave a 2D drawing on the surface. It
probably won't burn the chocolate, just melt a line that stands out from
the smooth surface.

Danny

[Akarsh Simha]

Hi

I don't really have a project. I just thought it would be really cool
(for example, for Christmas gifts and the like).

I'd just like to learn how to do it (Martin, I'll be your student!).

I'm not too particular about the result to start with, because this is
not really for production, but more a curiosity.

Looking at the instructables thing, is it really safe for human
consumption? There's nothing protecting the chocolate bar from the
already existing chemical vapors in the laser cutter. Of course, one
could vent them all out in principle...

I'm mostly interested in rastering designs than cutting out shapes, so
that should be a lot easier.

Regards
Akarsh

[Erik Olson]

There is a place for lasers here: I found a Ray-Tek temperature gun indispensible when working with chocolate.

I have burned a lot of chocolate (and it makes a terrible final product) but Ray-Tek over the double boiler makes it easy.

I second the silicone mold approach. Make whatever you like, then make a silicone mold.

Bubbles are a difficulty with any mold too. You can work at vibrating them out before chilling.

ThinkGeek sells silicone molds. I had bubble trouble in the folds of their Brain molds but in the end it's still fun. I dabbed a thin shell in the cavity, chilled, then filled and sealed. Brain truffles!

I've moved on to pancakes in character cookie cutters. This season I want to cut an aluminum rosette iron (easy CNC). These don't do fine detail at all but are good at crunchy fried broad shapes. 

You might have some success with a laser-cut screen template through which you apply a coating. For instance, dusting powdered sugar onto a warm cake.

Who says you can't play with your food?

-Erik

[Martin Bogomolni]

Yes, there is a way to do this, and keep it human safe.

-M

[Danny Miller]

There isn't that much "vapor" inside the cutter. It's constantly
drawing in a whole lot of fresh air. But if you burn the chocolate it'll
make itself taste bad.

You could make a pour mold out of plastic on the mill, too. That would
release easier than aluminum. But honestly silicone is hands-down the
way to go here.

Danny

[Danny Miller]

It's only gonna be a 2D surface marking, isn't it?

Wasn't there a 3D printing technology to print out chocolate directly?

Danny