RIDICULOUSLY HIGH power bill

[Martin Bogomolni]

I just went over the books, and the power bill for July was--

$494.07

This is almost 50% higher than the highest bill for summer we paid in
2011, and this year has been a much more mild summer.

*) When you leave the space, PLEASE set the thermostat to 80F.
*) Turn off the lights!
*) Turn off unused servers and computers and hardware if it's not in use

This bill put a major dent in our budget for July. If it goes higher
in August, we will need to divert money from other budgeted items to
power/expenses!

-M

[Danny Miller]

I'm glad you mentioned this....

If there's a different policy on servers, it MUST go through Tim. Please
don't unplug the rack or anything in it.

By FAR, our greatest expense is keeping that laser fan going. It
exhausts a huge volume of room air, which must be replaced by an equal
volume of outside hot air. This is essentially the same as opening the
back door and setting up a box fan to blow hot outside air into the Space.
Of course, don't run ever run the laser without the fan, but DON'T leave
the laser fan on while not using the laser for awhile!

I noticed the AC could be in pretty BAD shape. At NIGHT, when the
thermostat's set to like 78F and the outside's maybe 85F, it seems like
it's running almost continuously. This could, however, be part of
leaving the laser fan on.

That's indicative of a majorly poor output, which not only reduced the
amount of "cold" you can get, but increases the electricity costs. I
can't say for sure, I didn't try to measure the on/off period of the AC,
so I could be mistaken.

The laser room doesn't really get any cooling. I replaced the front
office return filter, but AFAIK there's a separate return filter buried
in the ceiling above the office that we can't readily get to to
replace. However, with the laser room and office door and window open,
it won't matter, the air should return. Still, I did notice this
before: the laser room gets NO significant cold airflow from its AC
unit, on or off.

I'll throw down the hypothesis: the thermostat's probably left at 80F
almost all day anyways, and yet remains on most of the time. If that's
true, then it's pointless to emphasize thermostat discipline because
that's not a problem. It could be the AC unit's shot, and I think
that's likely.

A few weeks back I discovered the back's AC filter had collapsed out of
the airstream and thus it was operating without a filter. However,
honestly, the A-coils didn't look "bad". A few bits of dust. They were
OK, this isn't the problem.

Danny

[Danny Miller]

Hey, how many CFM IS that laser fan supposed to be, anyways?

Danny

[Martin Bogomolni]

~500 CFM, two inches of static pressure with a 12" duct, f there are
no bends or obstructions. With the big Y yoke on it, and the flow
restrictor down to 4", it's probably closer to 300CFM right now.

-M

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[Jerry Rutherford]

Not sure if this helps or not, but at my house we have a window cracked open to replace the air from the fan. Locally we get a hot spot but not the whole house. When I had it set up in St Louis, I had some 4" dryer hose from outside to the laser input. (Hung from the front of the grill) this let the winter (20F) air in and right back out the laser without chilling the whole room too badly.

Askjerry... everyone else does.
Visit me online at http://askjerry.info
See my projects, video links, tutorials, and blog today.

On Thu, Aug 2, 2012 at 6:56 PM, Danny Miller <dan...@austin.rr.com> wrote:

I'm glad you mentioned this....

[Steve Baker]

I've often come to use the laser when nobody else is in the laser room and
the fan has been on - so this is a likely reason. But why it would just
start happening now is a harder thing to explain. Why would people
suddenly get forgetful?

Regardless - when we build out the new space, we REALLY need to put the
fan switch next to the laser switch so that it's (a) hard to forget to
turn the fan off when you turn the laser off and thereby waste A/C power
and (b) hard to forget to turn the fan on when you turn the laser on and
trash the laser.

Ideally, we should put them both on the same master switch to make it
impossible to forget.

-- Steve

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[David Mitchell]

I for one like the idea of using outside air for the laser somehow
instead of inside air. Shouldn't that be doable if we're already
paying to have an exhaust installed?

-David

[Danny Miller]

OK, well, assuming it's 300 CFM-
CFM to A/C BTU is CFM*degs dropped*1.08, not counting the moisture load,
which is usually significant. 1/3rd more is not an unrealistic
approximation.

So if it's 300cfm, 90F outside, and 78F inside, I get 5054BTU. Assuming
the AC is old-school 10 SEER, it's a 500W additional AC load. If we're
paying $0.10/KWH, that's only about $0.05/hr. That's neglecting the
wattage of the blower itself, which might be almost as much, actually.

It doesn't seem significant. Sure sometimes it's 100F outside, at night
it might be 80F though. 6 hrs a day of that, assume it's a 500W blower
in addition to the 500W AC load, I still only get $18/mo.

Danny

[Elliot Hallmark]

Is there really a return filter for the AC that isn't being changed?  That could definitely cause the AC to run continuously.  Aren't those supposed to be changed every month or so, at least during the summer?

btw, is there a specific physical plant clerk or something who is supposed to keep track of this? or are concerned, capable hackers just doing what they see needs to be done when they see it?

elliot

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[Mandie Kramer]

Everything at the hackerspace is based on volunteerism. Would anyone like to own remembering to change our A/C filters monthly? We'll make it official and list it on the wiki and everything!

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[Elliot Hallmark]

Everything at the hackerspace is based on volunteerism. 

Of course.  Like, Martin has volunteered to the responsibility of keeping and sharing the records of our finances. As we have a treasurer position, I was wondering if there was also physical plant position.  Certainly it would have been created and filled through volunteerism if it already existed.  I was just curious if such had happened already.

[Tim Fredlund]

Are you volunteering? ;) It wouldn't be a bad thing at all to have someone managing and/or keeping an eye on physical plant.

On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 10:34 AM, Elliot Hallmark <permaf...@gmail.com> wrote:

Everything at the hackerspace is based on volunteerism. 

Of course.  Like, Martin has volunteered to the responsibility of keeping and sharing the records of our finances. As we have a treasurer position, I was wondering if there was also physical plant position.  Certainly it would have been created and filled through volunteerism if it already existed.  I was just curious if such had happened already.

--

[Martin Bogomolni]

The Ministry of Mops compels you Elliot!   The Ministry of Mops calls!

Talk to Marshall, and join MoM... it's MoM's mission to keep the hackerspace clean, tidy, and

working in good order.

MoM needs YOU!

[Tim Fredlund]

It may be a pedantic point, but I'd argue that its not quite a MoM position since its not 'Matter out of place,' really.

[Nathan]

Dirty AC filters was one of the first things that came to my mind.
Most of my commercial customers are changing their filters twice a
month through the summertime. David most commercial vent hoods have a
Make Up Air unit to compensate for air being exhausted, some even cool
the outside air being blown in. Somebody posted a box on Thingiverse
in the laser cutter section recently that could provide a connection
for outside ventilation for an epilog.

[Martin Bogomolni]

*chuckle* Actually, I think I might be able to make a good counter
argument Tim:

Examples:

A filter is dirty, and needs replacing , to keep the AC running
( Matter that needs to be removed, and matter that needs to be located
and moved into place to fix it )

More storage, new racks or shelves are needed for member storage
( Something that deals with where to store Matter, and organizing Matter )

There is a leaky faucet in the bathroom
( Water (matter) is going where it shouldn't )

Motion detecting light switches need to be installed to better control
power related to lights.
( We need to detect people(matter) using switches (made of matter) to
stop electrons from escaping (which have mass) )

A bit tongue-in-cheek, but also seriously humorous...
-M

[Martin Bogomolni]

I saw that Thing! It was for a Zing, and it intrigued the heck out of me.

( Thing : http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:25987 )
( Thing : http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:26985 )

Nathan, can you lend a hand when it comes down to designing the intake
and return at the new space? The idea of keeping the ventilated air
for the laser cutter from impacting the HVAC load is a really good
one.

Hmm .. if changing the AC filter in the back has that big an impact on
the bill ... even if we are only going to be at the old space for a
couple months, it seems that being able to easily change it is a
priority ( It's so high up that it's a PITA to change ) Is our ladder
tall enough to safely access the filter to throw a new one in every
couple weeks?

-M

[Mandie Kramer]

Besides, who doesn't want to be a MoM?!

But seriously, Elliot, the idea of you wanting to take up this position . . . it's WONDERFUL!

[Danny Miller]

I've changed the filters on 7/10, it hadn't been done in a LONG time.  The office filter was alarmingly gunky.  The back was running without a filter at all, because it had collapsed.

Given that we're moving out, I don't think we'll need to do it again, unless the filter collapses again, which is actually pretty likely.  But the task is getting proper filters, just putting in another one, not so much.

Those are TERRIBLE filters.  Actually, I think the one in back may have already ripped apart on its own.

I had emailed asking for the filter-changing procedure.  No one had one.  I was surprised to find we had replacements in the office, found that out for myself.  The filter in back is self-explanatory, the filter in front you have to stand on a chair and move these levers to make it drop.  There is supposed to be another filter in the ceiling, you can't see it from the side since we walled in the mezzanine.  I don't know how to get to it, we could bring in the ladder and start popping ceiling tiles until you see it and formulate a plan on how to actually reach it.  Unless someone actually knows where it is in the ceiling, and how high up.

Danny

[Elliot Hallmark]

Commuting solely by bike, it would be very inconvinient for me to try to acquire materials for the space (like air intake filters), so I cannot take this role.

Next time I see danny in the space I'll ask about the filter that may exist and that didn't get changed.  If we aren't moving out for months I think the filters will need to be changed again.  I'll check what type they are and maybe try to arrange for having a couple months worth brought over to the space.  

[Danny Miller]

Both the accessible office return and rear are a 20x25 filter.  When I found the stash of filters in the office, there were some 20x25 and also a 20x20, IIRC (not totally sure on that though).  It would be plausible that they'd make all 3 20x25 for simplicity, OR the hidden one is the 20x20.  But there's a 20x20 there.

Most filters are the folded-paper type, and/or have a metal screen on the backside to hold them together, or a bunch of polyester fluff.  These "green" ones are a plastic veil of low and wildly inconsistent density and have only a few strips of very thin cardboard on back to hold them in, and the cardboard frame is filmsy.  It's not so bad for the office because the air goes upwards, so the weight of the filter holds itself down at least.

The rear AC, however, has higher flow velocity, stands the filter horizontally, and doesn't have any supporting grid or mesh on the backside, so the filter can just get pulled apart or pulled in.

I did look at the filters, they're not bad.  There's a small amount of dirt on the one in back, not enough to affect airflow though.

Danny