reopening and supplies
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david.78737
May 27, 2020, 9:05:04 AM5/27/20
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The discussions we had re re-opening included a lengthy discussion on cleaning procedures. At the HS over the weekend there was ONE roll of paper towels in the wood shop. That is OK but I was under the impression EVERY area would have their own cleaning supplies. If that is expected OK but if there should be a few more rolls around where would they be found?
There's been a discussion for new sign after the saw stop fired. I'm supportive of that. Other signs etc....
There's also been a discussion of moving HS discussions to a new platform.
The information already exists on the scheduling link.... https://atxhs.org/wiki/CNCRouterCalendar It just need to be propagated to other pages.
Kye Flannery
May 27, 2020, 11:56:49 AM5/27/20
to Eric Peterson, atxhs-...@googlegroups.com, reo...@atxhs.org
Hi, David, thank you - we are working to give members of the re-open team access to the supplies, which are in the Coworking space. This is a great conversation to continue with the reopen team, we will meet Thursday night and talk about the issues that people have come up with, formulate solutions, and add to the FAQs list.
Kye
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Kye Flannery
Have compassion for everyone you meet, even if they don't want it. What seems conceit, bad manners, or cynicism is always a sign of things no ears have heard, no eyes have seen. You do not know what wars are going on down there where the spirit meets the bone. —Miller Williams
Have compassion for everyone you meet, even if they don't want it. What seems conceit, bad manners, or cynicism is always a sign of things no ears have heard, no eyes have seen. You do not know what wars are going on down there where the spirit meets the bone. —Miller Williams
Valerie Grace
May 27, 2020, 6:09:51 PM5/27/20
to Kye Flannery, Eric Peterson, ATXHS Discuss, reo...@atxhs.org
Hey David,
Can you expand on what you mean by this statement:
The information already exists on the scheduling link.... https://atxhs.org/wiki/CNCRouterCalendar It just need to be propagated to other pages.
I added the same info to all the machine calendar pages I found in the wiki dropdown at the same time, but maybe there are more I don't know about?
Valerie Grace Wilmot
babymonstertruck
May 27, 2020, 6:27:30 PM5/27/20
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Hello board members and fellow members of atx hackerspace. my name is ernesto and I was a member with you guys two months prior to the shutdown and pandemic. i have not participated in many conversations and discussions on these highly important matters regarding covid-19, but something happened to me very recently that makes me feel the need to send a message to you very special and intelligent group of people. i personally only have a knowledge and background in fashion and graphic design, but I have thought of ideas and noticed that perhaps my ideas arent too far-fetched to help the situation. about one week into quarantine something in my mind triggered the response to come up with a way to blast the entire surface of the planet with a UV light capable of eliminating the spread on all surfaces. yesterday, I saw a news article stating japan recently invented microblasting UV technology which will be implemented on subway systems, trains, buses. I called my friend with the interesting news and extremely weird coincidence that I experienced. we discussed how its possible to then try to eradicate the spread completely by creating a face mask that shoots UV light out every-time one speaks or breathes. I felt the strong urge to send this email out today as I couldnt find any contact numbers to call atx hackerspace. please somebody read this and take this idea into some interest.
David Richardson
May 27, 2020, 6:34:36 PM5/27/20
to atxhs-...@googlegroups.com
Sure
In the “resources” -> mailing lists link that page links To the OLD list serve.
Hey I understand how difficult it is to chase all these links down. There may be others too.
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Valerie Grace
May 27, 2020, 7:22:45 PM5/27/20
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Ah excellent, thank you David! Got that bookmarked on my to do list. Appreciate that :)
Valerie Grace Wilmot
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Danny Miller
May 30, 2020, 2:54:05 PM5/30/20
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OK there are 4 notable subclasses of UV devices for this.
Let's just START with the TLDR takeaway: Cheap, proven 254nm germicidal UVC fluorescent tubes have been around for decades and definitely kill germs, but are totally NOT for occupied rooms, they're not eye-safe nor skin-safe, can damage many surfaces, and make the room stink. "UVC LEDs" are probably going to ship you bunk, but if they do work, they've got the same drawbacks as the 254nm tubes that will definitely work. But there is a new 222nm excimer UVC lamp that does seem to be effectively germicidal, and many CLAIM is skin-safe and even eye-safe but this is not well proven, and AFAIK real ones are not currently obtainable
OK so germicidal power is in the UVC range, 100-280nm. 265nm was deemed to be the "peak" of germicidal activity, as DNA/RNA of all sort of life has a very strong absorption at that specific point
1. Safe but useless UV: UVA range is just "blacklights" (LED or purple fluorescent tubes), it's nearly visible and causes posters to glow. It does nothing to skin or eyes and doesn't fade things or crack plastics, but it doesn't do anything to bacteria/viruses/fungi either. UV-cured glues and resists are specially designed to be cured by UVA exposure. UVB range can cause tanning, only "sort of" dangerous to skin and eyes, but also no significant germicidal power at all.
2. Traditional, proven germicidal fluorescent tubes of low pressure mercury (there is another type) are UVC, specifically 254nm, very close to the golden 265nm DNA/RNA target. They are cheap and powerful and PROVEN as highly effective given adequate time and exposure, but surfaces must be exposed of course. Opaque things block the UV. It can, with adequate exposure intensity*time, destroy airborne pathogens.
254nm UVC cannot be used in an occupied room. It is harmful to skin and eyes, and creates a funny "burning hair" smell found to come from the UVC breaking down the oil in fingerprints and human skin shedding found in dust (basically burning it). It can damage surfaces and make plastic/rubber crack. The dangerous UVC portion is completely blocked by any common window glass, but they also emit a harmless, non-germicidal visible bluish wavelength that you can see through the glass.
Germicidal UVC tubes have been used inside air ducts so no light enters a room, after HEPA air filters that remove dust that would make the burning smell. But at that point, well-filtered air is generally not thought to have a significant risk that needs UVC sterilization. It could take a lot of light for a fast airflow.
3. "Germicidal UVC LEDs" are supposed to be similar wavelength to germicidal UVC tubes- is exciting, but is not well established, proven tech, and diluted by scammers with junk products. If "real" UVC, it's certainly going to have the same problems with not being eye-safe, damages surfaces, and create a smell- and may miss the 265nm peak so far that it is NOT germicidal.
It is difficult to build a practical UVC LED device, LEDs are typically sealed with silicone tops now, the older tech was plastic. Both block UVC as well as degrade rapidly, so the diode itself has to be sealed with sapphire or fused silica. So true UVC LED devices are very specialized construction. Unfortunately, the market is flooded with undocumented "germicidal LEDs" with either no claim of wavelength, outright false claims about wavelength (some found to be basically common, useless UVA "blacklights"), or possibly accurate claims of wavelength BUT with dubious, unproven powers of being germicidal at that wavelength, and are too far from the 265nm peak.
It's pretty likely some Chinese mfgs did make germicidal UVC LED die (the actual teeny tiny silicon diode) but could not seal them appropriately with an exotic process and just slapped standard clear silicone on top, opaque to UVC so it kills the UVC rendering it useless, but they still claim it's UVC.
It's pretty likely some Chinese mfgs did make germicidal UVC LED die (the actual teeny tiny silicon diode) but could not seal them appropriately with an exotic process and just slapped standard clear silicone on top, opaque to UVC so it kills the UVC rendering it useless, but they still claim it's UVC.
It would be hard to tell what wavelength and emitted power you actually get. It will have the same drawbacks as germicidal 254nm UVC tubes if it works though, so it begs the question why not just use a cheap, proven, powerful 254nm tube if you have an application that can target it. Its advantage would only be that it might be a more convenient form and won't break if dropped.
4. There is very new hype surrounding "far UVC", 222nm, which claims it can destroy bacterial and viral particles but claims should not be harmful to people (in theory)
This is NOT well studied, especially the "is it safe to be around?" part, especially being eye-safe.
https://www.ushio.com/product/care222-mercury-free-far-uv-c-excimer/ goes out of its way to be clear it's for unoccupied rooms only.
These are 222nm excimer tubes, not to be confused with the traditional 254nm UVC germicidal tubes.
Far-UV 222nm excimer light is actually pretty interesting, but don't look obtainable yet. Sterilray and Ushio are two companies marketing genuine (I believe) 222nm excimers, and they don't seem to be obtainable off-the-shelf anywhere. Chinese vendors are spamming "222nm lamps!" that in the description-detains-fine-print often admits "254nm", so it's the same traditional germicidal UVC lamp you can't be in a room with, and NOT a real 222nm. I'm certain whether or not the details admit it, they're only going to ship you a traditional 254nm tube, not a 222nm excimer. They probably wouldn't have that tech but if they did they wouldn't be peddling it as a no-name vendor on Alibaba.
Note that if you did order and receive a fake "222nm" tube that is in fact 254nm (almost certainly the case), it will not be easy to tell the difference, and you may be exposing people to dangerous UVC.
Danny
On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 5:27 PM babymonstertruck <babymons...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello board members and fellow members of atx hackerspace. my name is ernesto and I was a member with you guys two months prior to the shutdown and pandemic. i have not participated in many conversations and discussions on these highly important matters regarding covid-19, but something happened to me very recently that makes me feel the need to send a message to you very special and intelligent group of people. i personally only have a knowledge and background in fashion and graphic design, but I have thought of ideas and noticed that perhaps my ideas arent too far-fetched to help the situation. about one week into quarantine something in my mind triggered the response to come up with a way to blast the entire surface of the planet with a UV light capable of eliminating the spread on all surfaces. yesterday, I saw a news article stating japan recently invented microblasting UV technology which will be implemented on subway systems, trains, buses. I called my friend with the interesting news and extremely weird coincidence that I experienced. we discussed how its possible to then try to eradicate the spread completely by creating a face mask that shoots UV light out every-time one speaks or breathes. I felt the strong urge to send this email out today as I couldnt find any contact numbers to call atx hackerspace. please somebody read this and take this idea into some interest.
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JL
May 30, 2020, 3:31:16 PM5/30/20
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Why not make a planet scale spontaneous parametric downconverter that makes 222nm from corona gamma events? This way the bugs are knocked back on a regular basis, & there’s not need for batteries. For example you could tweet Trump & Elan to put up a structure like the Fermi Gamma-ray Space Telescope, but a lot bigger & tweaked to to do the right thing. Just sayin’.
David Richardson
May 30, 2020, 8:01:41 PM5/30/20
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You are SO on it!!!
David
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JL
May 30, 2020, 8:16:42 PM5/30/20
to atxhs-...@googlegroups.com
Hey everyone, please join my krews party, you’re all invited:
https://www.twitch.tv/goagildigitaldarshan
Starts in an hour, should end sometime tomorrow night. We usually meet in person, so it’s gonna be extra weird dancing online FWIW; but you don’t have to drive to the Sierras; so; hey; plug in & crank it up! We don’t dance with each other anyway.
TT
Erik Olson
Jun 12, 2020, 6:50:52 PM6/12/20
to ATXHS Discuss
Thanks, Danny, for such a detailed answer.
I wondered about UV EPROM erasers--wikipedia says they use 253.7 nm. Ouch. (Yeah, I still do UV EPROMs.)
I thought babymonstertruck was describing our Sun? But I googled and saw that no UVC reaches our surface (and that is a good thing!)
Please can we forget about building planetary-scale death rays? Because that's what this is. The extinction of all life...
also, think of what a bad idea a universal germicide application is, too--the extinction of our food chain.
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