something other than C

[Raoul Duke]

hi,

Whenever I try to get a project building via C/++ I find it kind of a nightmare. Usually things don't work for me out of the box for whatever reasons. I tend to have more luck with e.g. Java.

I wonder if it would be possible to have a version/target of ATS that did not depend on C, even if it ends up writing out C. There are translators from C to Java, for example.

I know, I know, it is probably a terrible fool's errand to even think about this...

[Brandon Barker]

Do I recall correctly that ATS is running in the browser now? So
Javascript, not Java. Maybe package it up as node module... (I know
next to nothing about node).

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[Raoul Duke]

(i think only via emscripten, a route i personally do not like, but ymmv.)

[Hongwei Xi]

Well, I am actually thinking about targeting Java.

It is just that there is too much other stuff at my hand right now...

By the way, the atscc2js compiler (for compiling the C code generated from ATS into Javascript)

is getting more and more mature. I am using it all the time to do what I call ATS and JS co-programming.

For instance, this is a poor man's worm game I just wrote in ATS for my class:

http://www.cs.bu.edu/~hwxi/academic/courses/CS320/Spring16/assignments/10/Wormlike/Wormlike.html

Will find some time to use JS for the graphics part later.

By the way, I use Bacon.js for control, which is a FRP-based JS library. I have an interface for it in ATS. Really love it!

On Tue, May 3, 2016 at 4:56 PM, Raoul Duke <rao...@gmail.com> wrote:

(i think only via emscripten, a route i personally do not like, but ymmv.)

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[gmhwxi]

Speaking of emscripten, I have a few horror stories of my own.

But I have to say that it is quite an impressive project. I once said
that it was a small miracle that the entire ATS compiler (atsopt) can
actually be compiled into JS successfully via emscripten. The generated
C code alone consists of at least 500K lines. In general, emscripten is
not well-suited for handling C code generated from ATS that makes use
of higher-order functions. I almost gave up. At the end, templates saved
the day: I replaced various higher-order functions in atsopt with templates
to allow them to be properly eliminated (through inlining). This kind of replacement
had been designed to support the use of higher-order functions in embedded programming,
but it was used in this very peculiar setting to solve a very peculiar problem :)

Cheers!

[Brandon Barker]

I at least would probably use ATS/Java co-programming for something
eventually -- somewhat surprisingly (though not in retrospect) I have
yet to take on even one C/C++ project in the last 1.5 years but have
had three inherited and one new JVM project (which have mostly used
Java and Scala) ...

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[Artyom Shalkhakov]

On Wednesday, May 4, 2016 at 7:33:37 AM UTC+6, Brandon Barker wrote:

I at least would probably use ATS/Java co-programming for something
eventually -- somewhat surprisingly (though not in retrospect) I have
yet to take on even one C/C++ project in the last 1.5 years but have
had three inherited and one new JVM project (which have mostly used
Java and Scala) ...

I think that ATSCC->C# could be a good idea for a project too. I initially tried to go the ATSCC->CIL route because I was very concerned about subverting static typing in the target language. I now think it was a mistake. A source-to-source compiler would make things much easier.

[Raoul Duke]

Source to source does seem safest in terms of FFI with that other language. There are probably bytecodes / sequences thereof that would not be interoperable with regular Java/C# sources in some weird way that is not fun to debug.